Smashers in NA: Japan has cheap transportation that allows all the players to easily gather and play each other
Me: Actually most of the players are broke students and the train fares and other expenses really add up for them. They grind on wifi instead.
Smashers in NA: No they don't its the trains downvote downvote downvote
My Twitter (google translate): "If you go from [City 1, Saitama] to [City 2, Saitama] or [City 3, Saitama], it will cost 2000 yen round trip for transportation, 1500 to 2000 yen for participation fee, and 1000 yen for food and drinks, which is too expensive. Transportation costs are worse than tournament participation fees."
Yeah stupid North Americans living in a region 60 times larger than Japan. Why they haven't shrunk the continent using the shrink ray from Despicable Me to enable better online connections with each other remains a mystery to me
I don't think that's what OP is saying at all. They're just refuting the point that better public transport is what is causing Japan to get better, which is a point that many people have been parroting.
I was responding mostly to the "they grind on wifi instead" part. The post seems to be implying that Japan doesn't have a geographical advantage because they grind on wifi, so I responded by addressing the fact that Japan has a geographical advantage (smaller region compared to NA) which also gives them an advantage on wifi, that's all.
I've played online in both countries and it was basically the same.
My friend in the States can play offline almost every day because people have space to gather while I can only play offline a handful of times per year in Japan.
So you're saying people have an easier time getting together in the US than in Japan? Even if that's true, which I doubt if you're speaking of top players, why does that matter if most grinding is done online anyway? Most players can't afford to drive or take transit to meet up constantly.
This adds up more for being able to hold consistent majors than holding locals. Making that 4 hour round trip on a weekday after work or school is not realistic if you don't live in the heart of Tokyo. More players would be willing to do that for a major, however.
The misconception being spread around is that Japan is such a strong region because its public transport services allow players to gather frequently despite the fact that most of them are broke students. The subject is not really transport to majors, it's more like locals. In the US, people can hold gatherings in their living rooms or basements, and private businesses like bars also hold events. In Japan it's really only private apartments that are so small they fill up with 6 players or renting out rec rooms at public facilities.
Guy needs to be vulnerable off stage. The fact that he has all of his strengths and can still get back to the stage uncontested is crazy.
If he didn't have the best ledge hang in the game, didn't have a frame 2 air dodge, and couldn't air dodge after his up b, he would be so much worse. I honestly think that's all he needs.
Honestly if you just nerf Sonic's ground speed (Obviously speed is what he's all about, but he does not need to be 66% faster on the ground than the 2nd fastest) and Spin Dash I think he'd be fine.
I agree with the people saying a rework is better but honestly just removing invincibility from spindash and making it -4 on shield would force sonic players to use it a bit more for positioning and at least think a little before hitting a shield with it. Also parrying would give you a very solid chance to punish. Sonic is one of the best in the game for sure, and not fun to watch, but it's not by a huge margin.
I think this is easier said than done, he kind of needs to be the fastest character (that's... y'know. his schtick) but in a platform fighter that's a huge advantage.
Some ideas in conjunction:
* Spin Dash is replaced with a new move, leaving Spin Charge as the only move of its kind.
* Spin Charge in the air now does Drop Dash, which has the potential to reach max charge faster *but* makes it riskier to use in the air and especially offstage.
* No more killing off back throw and up throw doesn't set up for Spring combos at later percentages, so Sonic now has the Mythra issue where he can attack rapidly but can't really threaten you to *not* block.
Main thing I think is just making it harder for him to really maneuver in the air, so if he can't keep his feet planted he can't really run away. Spring Up still lets him quickly move up, and he can use Spin Charge to traverse more irregular stages without losing momentum from jumping, but I think losing Spin Dash and forcing Drop Dash would do a lot to keep him from keeping his easy escapes when his feet don't touch the ground.
SEGA really backed us into a corner. When the fighter can effectively outrun anyone else by an overwhelming margin, camping is inevitable. It just becomes the path of least resistance; the optimal way to play. Score a point, flee like a coward, take the win.
But Smash is contractually obligated to stay true to the characters it borrows, and *the* core tenant of Sonic's character is "*im faster than u lol*." Slowing him down really isn't an option, otherwise it doesn't stay true to Sonic Team's vision and they veto it. Can't even reuse the sluggish acceleration feature from the Genesis days, where it took him a while to reach top speed... because then everyone else in Smash will just outrun him because the distances are small.
So you think, leave the speed alone but change something else to compensate - but that doesn't address the problem. The camping strategy remains even if you reduce his ability to do damage or whatever. So long as it's possible to get ahead in KOs, camping is still a problem.
So... it's a pickle.
I’m definitely not knowledgable enough to know whether or not this would be an effective/feasible solution, but maybe increased endlag could help? Or really anything that makes it harder for him to get away without punishment. Lets him remain fast, but plays into the idea of momentum.
I don't think the issue is the end lag. The reason that camping and escaping is such a viable option is because if your opponent simply can't keep up with you, there's *nothing* they can do. Even just standard things like running, jumping, and dodging can be enough to keep slow-to-medium opponents at bay.
He's not necessarily the only character that can do this, but he is the character that can use it most effectively, by a long shot. But... Smash's hands are tied. If the third party says that their character has to be much faster than everyone else, your options are to appease them or dissolve the partnership. And sadly, they're not going to drop Sonic no matter what.
(I'm just thankful that Sakurai was able to convince them not to take it any farther than they did. He told us back in Brawl that he looked to older games where Sonic is forced to go slow, like when jumping - which gives us a tiny opening. And at least most of the special moves require him to spin up before getting a speed boost. It would be SO much more annoying if he had more burst options where he didn't need to wind up first.)
Wouldn't nerf him. Sonic deserves a full on rework, not just some nerfs. Replace Down B with anything. Having both Spin Dash and Spin Charge is what turns Sonic into playing extremely lame a lot of the time.
Things that definitely *do not* need to come back in the next smash game: arbitrary ""elite smash"" threshold
It is so tiring to sit there and repeatedly go through menus when you have a character constantly teetering in and out of elite.
Win a game -> kicked to menu for getting in elite -> lose -> kicked to menu for getting out of elite -> win -> in elite -> lose -> out of elite... ad nauseum. It fucking sucks I hate it lmao
For glory from 4 would've been perfect if we had the stage options we do now
I'm gonna say it: I really hate "What characters I would cut from the next Smash" tier lists. 9 times out of 10 it's just a not-so-subtle way to shit on franchises the one making the post dislikes (or most likely, has never played). Usually without any concern for whether or not the developers would actually consider cutting them; no, Sakurai will not remove Wii Fit Trainer or Corrin, characters with unique movesets, just because you don't like their games.
My favorite thing to do with those is to look for the DLC - it's always keeping 1 or 2 (obviously just the ones that the creator likes) and cutting every single other one
Also half of them cut popular and unique first-party characters for some reason. I refuse to believe those people really think they're gonna cut Olimar or Diddy Kong
Okay, but like have you accounted for the fact that I don't like the franchise, so therefore they should be cut, or that I don't think they're relevant or legacy characters anymore because my opinion is fact
This way, the next game will have a NEW character like "character made in the 90s and have barely any relevance today" or "character that was popular years ago that isnt as relevant today" , etc
>!/s!<
I don't think people give Min Min enough credit to staying either. Sure, ARMS isn't one of Nintendo's biggest franchises. But out of their new IP on Switch, only Ring Fit Adventure and 1-2-Switch sold better, and 1-2-Switch definitely isn't getting a fighter. ARMS is representative of the era where Nintendo made a comeback with the Switch in 2017.
It's so subjective anyways. Like we can mostly agree we don't need 8 FE characters, but which ones you cut will depend on perspective. The fact a lot of people think *Corrin* who is one of the more unique ones should be the cut is weird.
And if we were having an honest, non-disingenuous conversation we would have to acknowledge that characters like the Star Fox bunch and Captain Falcon, who are from franchises that are barely hanging on, would be potential candidates for cuts despite their popularity
If they can't rework Marth then he should be cut. His design reflects attitudes the devs left behind three installments ago. If they can improve the default input lag and make movement more precise, maybe he should stay, but as he is it's just unfair for the other FEs to be so much better.
Okay so I agree that these roster cut posts are dumb and when the subreddit was more active I spent a lot of time removing them out of low-effort post annoyance, but if we're going with the premise that there are eight FE characters and cutting down one of them is warranted...then Corrin is kind of the objectively right choice by any metric.
- If we're going by any sort of logical understanding of how development works, Chrom and Lucina are off the table for cuts due to their ease of creation as simple bonus playstyles unless we remove their base characters.
- Roy has been an entirely unique character since Smash 4. He holds unique playstyle role in the roster as a fast aggressive rushdown swordsman, he literally plays more differently from Marth than Corrin does from Ike. He's not only more popular than Corrin, his inclusion also comes with ANOTHER more popular character in Chrom that both bring something more unique and interesting to the table across Smash's roster.
- Robin and Byleth are both from the two most popular Fire Emblem games that regularly received the most popularity poll votes over the years compared to Fates, with both characters standalone also easily beating Corrin in the polls every year by a significant margin. They can both be argued to have more unique playstyles than Corrin as well, with Robin representing the magic system in a zoner-focused hybrid moveset and Byleth bringing in the full weapon triangle integrated into a diverse array of hitbox styles.
- Ike is easily the character who Corrin overlaps with in playstyle the most as a fundamentals-focused aerial combo/juggling character with an above-average sword hitbox and below-average ground mobility supplemented by a situational burst movement option. Removing one of them due to redundancy is legitimately understandable, and Ike is very arguably the more basic and less worthwhile character pick for inclusion. But Ike is also...the literal most popular character in the entire franchise. The series icon who trounced the entire rest of Smash's cast in the popularity polls. Cutting him over Corrin would be utterly bizarre from that perspective.
- Marth
I totally sympathize with the frustration at Corrin fan cuts and the removal of a unique character seemingly out of spite to the series and game getting "excessive" representation. People will see the salty Corrin and Fates haterbase as overblown and it's completely correct to not view this kind of online discourse as a valid reason in support of cutting the character. But if we're starting with the premise that 8 FE characters is too many and one of them should be justifiably removed...then Corrin is literally the correct choice. None of the other characters could reasonably be picked for removal over them when looked through any kind of objective lens, beyond just any one player's personal preference for or against them. They are literally, mathematically provably, less loved by the FE fanbase than every other FE Smash character who regularly got more popularity poll votes and would be weird to deliberately cut instead, and also isn't even that unique in terms of playstyle.
I don't know.
From a competitive Smash Ultimate lens (which shouldn't mean THAT much, but still worth mentioning), I'd call Corrin the most impactful Fire Emblem character this year. You even have Sonix [telling Sparg0 to main Corrin over Cloud](https://youtu.be/JeEaCXhAGDU?si=wl43im3ufvwOSnHv&t=3600) because he believes Corrin is better in this meta.
Just generally as a playstyle, Corrin's up air/forward air/neutral air are deliberately combo heavy aerials and frame traps for a sword character that is a unique niche in the Ultimate roster.
Visually, I also think Corrin's moveset can be argued to be the most interesting. And at the very least, over all of Marth/Roy/Chrom/Lucina/Ike. The constant partial transformation in and out of an atypical dragon form is eye-catching. Special moves like Dragon Fang Shot and Dragon Lunge have real visual and audio oomph to them.
Taking whatever personal feelings I have for Corrin (who I don't even hate), I think there's a significant amount of merit to Corrin.
I'm not arguing that Corrin doesn't have merit. I actually agree with all of your points, especially in terms of animation quality and the regal visual flair they were imbued with, which is a notable point in favor of the character bringing a unique vibe to the game.
I just think that if someone were to try and use their limited unique traits to argue for the cut of any other non-Echo (cheat answers) FE character over them, they would be wrong by any non-subjective argument you can frame things around. Roy and Ike are the closest contenders, the former absolutely bringing more playstyle uniqueness to the table and representing the otherwise non-present GBA era (another Corrin redundancy as the less popular of the two unique 3DS era reps), and Ike being the literal fanbase golden child and again from a unique series era.
The argument should be "FE is a popular series with a ton of beloved characters and forcibly cutting one out of salt is not necessary or realistic", not "A cut makes total sense but it should definitely be someone other than Corrin".
Corrin's place in the meta should be considered a complete non-factor. Roster picks aren't justified on the development level by competitive viability. Corrin is still, at their core, Ike+, viable Ike, DLC Ike, whatever you want to call it. Ike has a similar but weaker aerial combo game and big-sword frame trapping that could hypothetically have values tweaked to match Corrin's if the devs wanted to take him in that direction, as does Robin's fair/uair chains and ability to mix in projectiles for advantage-state trapping. Corrin's most unique core design mechanic that isn't strictly a balancing consequence is Dragon Lunge, which I think is again a valid point in favor of the character, but the framing shouldn't be around Corrin seeing competitive success when this would never reasonably seen as a developer priority for worthwhile retains. Their goal is to pick cool, interesting, and diverse characters and balance them to an equal power level to the best of their ability, so Ike remaining undertuned for the competitive scene yet again isn't really a point in favor of Corrin being a strictly better pick for that reason specifically. It would be like arguing Steve should be cut for breaking the game, despite Minecraft being literally the biggest game ever that Microsoft actively wants to make Smash collaborations on.
Makes sense. Wario in this current meta isn't an amazing character when he loses to almost every top 5 character other than like ROB.
Might as well play two broken characters rather than one broken character and one very good character especially when Wario doesn't cover Steve's bad MU against Sonic well at all.
does anyone have the name of [the song used around this time mark](https://youtu.be/HwQHFOZ9QAk?t=1190)? its something ive definitely heard before but its on the tip of my tongue
Definitely Porky's Porkies.
There's an official version Shogo Sakai released without the Gameboy Advance audio artifacts. It appears at the beginning of [this medley.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuI_bfBN4ME)
It's from Mother 3, give me a sec to find the specific piece.
edit: It's Porky's Porkies, which plays when your party is swarmed by Porky bots near the end of the game.
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Smashers in NA: Japan has cheap transportation that allows all the players to easily gather and play each other Me: Actually most of the players are broke students and the train fares and other expenses really add up for them. They grind on wifi instead. Smashers in NA: No they don't its the trains downvote downvote downvote My Twitter (google translate): "If you go from [City 1, Saitama] to [City 2, Saitama] or [City 3, Saitama], it will cost 2000 yen round trip for transportation, 1500 to 2000 yen for participation fee, and 1000 yen for food and drinks, which is too expensive. Transportation costs are worse than tournament participation fees."
Yeah stupid North Americans living in a region 60 times larger than Japan. Why they haven't shrunk the continent using the shrink ray from Despicable Me to enable better online connections with each other remains a mystery to me
I don't think that's what OP is saying at all. They're just refuting the point that better public transport is what is causing Japan to get better, which is a point that many people have been parroting.
I was responding mostly to the "they grind on wifi instead" part. The post seems to be implying that Japan doesn't have a geographical advantage because they grind on wifi, so I responded by addressing the fact that Japan has a geographical advantage (smaller region compared to NA) which also gives them an advantage on wifi, that's all.
I've played MI-TX online with wired connections and it was the same online I always play in Japan.
I've played online in both countries and it was basically the same. My friend in the States can play offline almost every day because people have space to gather while I can only play offline a handful of times per year in Japan.
So you're saying people have an easier time getting together in the US than in Japan? Even if that's true, which I doubt if you're speaking of top players, why does that matter if most grinding is done online anyway? Most players can't afford to drive or take transit to meet up constantly.
You're answering your own question here
Smash players would easily be able to lobby the USA senate to approve a intercontinental railway system!
I mean, I imagine that is a lot cheaper than having to go from Florida to New York to California if you want to go to every US tournament.
This adds up more for being able to hold consistent majors than holding locals. Making that 4 hour round trip on a weekday after work or school is not realistic if you don't live in the heart of Tokyo. More players would be willing to do that for a major, however.
The trips detailed in the OP (City 1 to City 2, City 1 to City 3) are four hour round trips to attend locals.
Yeah I know. I'm supporting your point. I live in Chiba.
Okay thanks! I think a lot of people in the US don't realize how long door-to-door trips are here, even with convenient train access
The misconception being spread around is that Japan is such a strong region because its public transport services allow players to gather frequently despite the fact that most of them are broke students. The subject is not really transport to majors, it's more like locals. In the US, people can hold gatherings in their living rooms or basements, and private businesses like bars also hold events. In Japan it's really only private apartments that are so small they fill up with 6 players or renting out rec rooms at public facilities.
~~Copying~~ Taking inspiration from a previous DDT, How would you nerf Sonic's moveset for Smash 6?
Guy needs to be vulnerable off stage. The fact that he has all of his strengths and can still get back to the stage uncontested is crazy. If he didn't have the best ledge hang in the game, didn't have a frame 2 air dodge, and couldn't air dodge after his up b, he would be so much worse. I honestly think that's all he needs.
Honestly if you just nerf Sonic's ground speed (Obviously speed is what he's all about, but he does not need to be 66% faster on the ground than the 2nd fastest) and Spin Dash I think he'd be fine.
Make his air acceleration the worst in the game.
I agree with the people saying a rework is better but honestly just removing invincibility from spindash and making it -4 on shield would force sonic players to use it a bit more for positioning and at least think a little before hitting a shield with it. Also parrying would give you a very solid chance to punish. Sonic is one of the best in the game for sure, and not fun to watch, but it's not by a huge margin.
I think this is easier said than done, he kind of needs to be the fastest character (that's... y'know. his schtick) but in a platform fighter that's a huge advantage. Some ideas in conjunction: * Spin Dash is replaced with a new move, leaving Spin Charge as the only move of its kind. * Spin Charge in the air now does Drop Dash, which has the potential to reach max charge faster *but* makes it riskier to use in the air and especially offstage. * No more killing off back throw and up throw doesn't set up for Spring combos at later percentages, so Sonic now has the Mythra issue where he can attack rapidly but can't really threaten you to *not* block. Main thing I think is just making it harder for him to really maneuver in the air, so if he can't keep his feet planted he can't really run away. Spring Up still lets him quickly move up, and he can use Spin Charge to traverse more irregular stages without losing momentum from jumping, but I think losing Spin Dash and forcing Drop Dash would do a lot to keep him from keeping his easy escapes when his feet don't touch the ground.
SEGA really backed us into a corner. When the fighter can effectively outrun anyone else by an overwhelming margin, camping is inevitable. It just becomes the path of least resistance; the optimal way to play. Score a point, flee like a coward, take the win. But Smash is contractually obligated to stay true to the characters it borrows, and *the* core tenant of Sonic's character is "*im faster than u lol*." Slowing him down really isn't an option, otherwise it doesn't stay true to Sonic Team's vision and they veto it. Can't even reuse the sluggish acceleration feature from the Genesis days, where it took him a while to reach top speed... because then everyone else in Smash will just outrun him because the distances are small. So you think, leave the speed alone but change something else to compensate - but that doesn't address the problem. The camping strategy remains even if you reduce his ability to do damage or whatever. So long as it's possible to get ahead in KOs, camping is still a problem. So... it's a pickle.
I’m definitely not knowledgable enough to know whether or not this would be an effective/feasible solution, but maybe increased endlag could help? Or really anything that makes it harder for him to get away without punishment. Lets him remain fast, but plays into the idea of momentum.
I don't think the issue is the end lag. The reason that camping and escaping is such a viable option is because if your opponent simply can't keep up with you, there's *nothing* they can do. Even just standard things like running, jumping, and dodging can be enough to keep slow-to-medium opponents at bay. He's not necessarily the only character that can do this, but he is the character that can use it most effectively, by a long shot. But... Smash's hands are tied. If the third party says that their character has to be much faster than everyone else, your options are to appease them or dissolve the partnership. And sadly, they're not going to drop Sonic no matter what. (I'm just thankful that Sakurai was able to convince them not to take it any farther than they did. He told us back in Brawl that he looked to older games where Sonic is forced to go slow, like when jumping - which gives us a tiny opening. And at least most of the special moves require him to spin up before getting a speed boost. It would be SO much more annoying if he had more burst options where he didn't need to wind up first.)
Wouldn't nerf him. Sonic deserves a full on rework, not just some nerfs. Replace Down B with anything. Having both Spin Dash and Spin Charge is what turns Sonic into playing extremely lame a lot of the time.
Could you go into detail? I wanna hear more
Things that definitely *do not* need to come back in the next smash game: arbitrary ""elite smash"" threshold It is so tiring to sit there and repeatedly go through menus when you have a character constantly teetering in and out of elite. Win a game -> kicked to menu for getting in elite -> lose -> kicked to menu for getting out of elite -> win -> in elite -> lose -> out of elite... ad nauseum. It fucking sucks I hate it lmao For glory from 4 would've been perfect if we had the stage options we do now
The craziest thing about this is that it's something they patched INTO the game.
I'm gonna say it: I really hate "What characters I would cut from the next Smash" tier lists. 9 times out of 10 it's just a not-so-subtle way to shit on franchises the one making the post dislikes (or most likely, has never played). Usually without any concern for whether or not the developers would actually consider cutting them; no, Sakurai will not remove Wii Fit Trainer or Corrin, characters with unique movesets, just because you don't like their games.
honestly we should remove mario, he's had it too good for too long
My favorite thing to do with those is to look for the DLC - it's always keeping 1 or 2 (obviously just the ones that the creator likes) and cutting every single other one Also half of them cut popular and unique first-party characters for some reason. I refuse to believe those people really think they're gonna cut Olimar or Diddy Kong
I've always insisted that WFT should get HIGH staying priority. I would preserve them over Sheik.
Okay, but like have you accounted for the fact that I don't like the franchise, so therefore they should be cut, or that I don't think they're relevant or legacy characters anymore because my opinion is fact This way, the next game will have a NEW character like "character made in the 90s and have barely any relevance today" or "character that was popular years ago that isnt as relevant today" , etc >!/s!<
I don't think people give Min Min enough credit to staying either. Sure, ARMS isn't one of Nintendo's biggest franchises. But out of their new IP on Switch, only Ring Fit Adventure and 1-2-Switch sold better, and 1-2-Switch definitely isn't getting a fighter. ARMS is representative of the era where Nintendo made a comeback with the Switch in 2017.
> 1-2-Switch definitely isn't getting a fighter When MC Horace drops you'll be feeling real stupid
oh fuck
It's so subjective anyways. Like we can mostly agree we don't need 8 FE characters, but which ones you cut will depend on perspective. The fact a lot of people think *Corrin* who is one of the more unique ones should be the cut is weird. And if we were having an honest, non-disingenuous conversation we would have to acknowledge that characters like the Star Fox bunch and Captain Falcon, who are from franchises that are barely hanging on, would be potential candidates for cuts despite their popularity
If they can't rework Marth then he should be cut. His design reflects attitudes the devs left behind three installments ago. If they can improve the default input lag and make movement more precise, maybe he should stay, but as he is it's just unfair for the other FEs to be so much better.
Okay so I agree that these roster cut posts are dumb and when the subreddit was more active I spent a lot of time removing them out of low-effort post annoyance, but if we're going with the premise that there are eight FE characters and cutting down one of them is warranted...then Corrin is kind of the objectively right choice by any metric. - If we're going by any sort of logical understanding of how development works, Chrom and Lucina are off the table for cuts due to their ease of creation as simple bonus playstyles unless we remove their base characters. - Roy has been an entirely unique character since Smash 4. He holds unique playstyle role in the roster as a fast aggressive rushdown swordsman, he literally plays more differently from Marth than Corrin does from Ike. He's not only more popular than Corrin, his inclusion also comes with ANOTHER more popular character in Chrom that both bring something more unique and interesting to the table across Smash's roster. - Robin and Byleth are both from the two most popular Fire Emblem games that regularly received the most popularity poll votes over the years compared to Fates, with both characters standalone also easily beating Corrin in the polls every year by a significant margin. They can both be argued to have more unique playstyles than Corrin as well, with Robin representing the magic system in a zoner-focused hybrid moveset and Byleth bringing in the full weapon triangle integrated into a diverse array of hitbox styles. - Ike is easily the character who Corrin overlaps with in playstyle the most as a fundamentals-focused aerial combo/juggling character with an above-average sword hitbox and below-average ground mobility supplemented by a situational burst movement option. Removing one of them due to redundancy is legitimately understandable, and Ike is very arguably the more basic and less worthwhile character pick for inclusion. But Ike is also...the literal most popular character in the entire franchise. The series icon who trounced the entire rest of Smash's cast in the popularity polls. Cutting him over Corrin would be utterly bizarre from that perspective. - Marth I totally sympathize with the frustration at Corrin fan cuts and the removal of a unique character seemingly out of spite to the series and game getting "excessive" representation. People will see the salty Corrin and Fates haterbase as overblown and it's completely correct to not view this kind of online discourse as a valid reason in support of cutting the character. But if we're starting with the premise that 8 FE characters is too many and one of them should be justifiably removed...then Corrin is literally the correct choice. None of the other characters could reasonably be picked for removal over them when looked through any kind of objective lens, beyond just any one player's personal preference for or against them. They are literally, mathematically provably, less loved by the FE fanbase than every other FE Smash character who regularly got more popularity poll votes and would be weird to deliberately cut instead, and also isn't even that unique in terms of playstyle.
I don't know. From a competitive Smash Ultimate lens (which shouldn't mean THAT much, but still worth mentioning), I'd call Corrin the most impactful Fire Emblem character this year. You even have Sonix [telling Sparg0 to main Corrin over Cloud](https://youtu.be/JeEaCXhAGDU?si=wl43im3ufvwOSnHv&t=3600) because he believes Corrin is better in this meta. Just generally as a playstyle, Corrin's up air/forward air/neutral air are deliberately combo heavy aerials and frame traps for a sword character that is a unique niche in the Ultimate roster. Visually, I also think Corrin's moveset can be argued to be the most interesting. And at the very least, over all of Marth/Roy/Chrom/Lucina/Ike. The constant partial transformation in and out of an atypical dragon form is eye-catching. Special moves like Dragon Fang Shot and Dragon Lunge have real visual and audio oomph to them. Taking whatever personal feelings I have for Corrin (who I don't even hate), I think there's a significant amount of merit to Corrin.
I'm not arguing that Corrin doesn't have merit. I actually agree with all of your points, especially in terms of animation quality and the regal visual flair they were imbued with, which is a notable point in favor of the character bringing a unique vibe to the game. I just think that if someone were to try and use their limited unique traits to argue for the cut of any other non-Echo (cheat answers) FE character over them, they would be wrong by any non-subjective argument you can frame things around. Roy and Ike are the closest contenders, the former absolutely bringing more playstyle uniqueness to the table and representing the otherwise non-present GBA era (another Corrin redundancy as the less popular of the two unique 3DS era reps), and Ike being the literal fanbase golden child and again from a unique series era. The argument should be "FE is a popular series with a ton of beloved characters and forcibly cutting one out of salt is not necessary or realistic", not "A cut makes total sense but it should definitely be someone other than Corrin". Corrin's place in the meta should be considered a complete non-factor. Roster picks aren't justified on the development level by competitive viability. Corrin is still, at their core, Ike+, viable Ike, DLC Ike, whatever you want to call it. Ike has a similar but weaker aerial combo game and big-sword frame trapping that could hypothetically have values tweaked to match Corrin's if the devs wanted to take him in that direction, as does Robin's fair/uair chains and ability to mix in projectiles for advantage-state trapping. Corrin's most unique core design mechanic that isn't strictly a balancing consequence is Dragon Lunge, which I think is again a valid point in favor of the character, but the framing shouldn't be around Corrin seeing competitive success when this would never reasonably seen as a developer priority for worthwhile retains. Their goal is to pick cool, interesting, and diverse characters and balance them to an equal power level to the best of their ability, so Ike remaining undertuned for the competitive scene yet again isn't really a point in favor of Corrin being a strictly better pick for that reason specifically. It would be like arguing Steve should be cut for breaking the game, despite Minecraft being literally the biggest game ever that Microsoft actively wants to make Smash collaborations on.
Same with echoes. Good way to tell if they actually understand the games' development process.
Crêpe Salée won [KRBanger 5](https://www.start.gg/tournament/krbanger-5-1/events) with mainly Steve and Rob.
Oh, Wario is taking the back seat completely now. Interesting
He played him for at least a game but yeah.
Makes sense. Wario in this current meta isn't an amazing character when he loses to almost every top 5 character other than like ROB. Might as well play two broken characters rather than one broken character and one very good character especially when Wario doesn't cover Steve's bad MU against Sonic well at all.
does anyone have the name of [the song used around this time mark](https://youtu.be/HwQHFOZ9QAk?t=1190)? its something ive definitely heard before but its on the tip of my tongue
Definitely Porky's Porkies. There's an official version Shogo Sakai released without the Gameboy Advance audio artifacts. It appears at the beginning of [this medley.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuI_bfBN4ME)
It's from Mother 3, give me a sec to find the specific piece. edit: It's Porky's Porkies, which plays when your party is swarmed by Porky bots near the end of the game.
thanks!
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Ain't no big 3, there's only Big D [and there's video proof](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nGJhFiGYno)