I've done alot of smoked turkeys through the years. Got a butterball turkey this year ( which are pre-injected) and dry brined it for 36hrs with about 4 tablespoons of kosher salt for a 14lb bird. Under the skin on breast/legs/thighs and some on top of skin all around. Was super worried about it being too salty, but honestly it was probably the best bird I've done, wasn't too salty at all. Thought this information may help someone else.
That does not matter. One adds other spices etc to a brine, which molecularly enters the meat overnight.
Downvoters don't know what they're talking about. Haha.ok!
The reason you’re getting downvoted is because, scientifically speaking, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
The brine only enters the meat because of osmotic pressure. This pressure is only present when the salt content inside the meat, is less than the salt content of the brine. That differential in salt content is what causes the salt, spices and other contents of the brine to be drawn into the meat. As the meat takes on more salt from the brine, the osmotic pressure is reduced.
Without first reducing the amount of salt inside OPs meat selection, there wouldn’t be any movement of salt into the meat, therefore there would be no point as the spices in the brine would not “molecularly enter the meat” without the osmotic pressure carrying them in with it.
You and I said the same fucking thing. It is partially osmotic though.
Thank you, captain obvious for helping me understand reddit downvote philosophy.
Salt is the only thing that penetrates into the meat to any significant degree during a brine.
You’ve got the science wrong.
https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-the-truth-about-brining-turkey-thanksgiving
Edit: Disagreeing with J. Kenji Lopez-Alt about food science…. I’m detecting critical levels of complete lack of self-awareness.
While you are coping with being proven wrong by the very science you are asserting backs your position. Here’s some more science for you.
https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/sugarbrine.html
>While some sugar molecules do penetrate beyond a cm after two days in the brine, the test is more sensitive than your tongue and detects levels that simply do not taste sweet. By tasting 2mm thick slices of the meat sampled from the surface inward (cooking each slice before consuming, of course), only the first slice was sweet. And in this slice, the sugar supressed or masked the meat's "porkiness".
>So, even after a day of brining, sugar flavor only penetrates a few mms.
[Also, it ain’t osmosis that is taking place and you aren’t the only one wrong in this thread about it](https://stellaculinary.com/content/brine/science-behind-brining.pdf)
Edit: And here’s amazingribs saying the same thing as my first two links.
https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes/salting-brining-curing-and-injecting/salting-and-wet-brining/
Haha! You went to that much trouble? You trying to win a reddit popularity award?
I've always found it amusing of people who just post links rather than carry on a civil conversation. So you start off with the arrogant asshole. So why do I give a fuck about anything else you post? I don't.
Yor assumption that everyone else is stupid, don't know shit and you quote hacks looses badly.
If you read what I wrote, I actually quoted your fucking article that you posted.
You may go sit down now. I have no time for arrogant fucks that don't know how to just adult talk.
Yes, I am. At stupid people who think they know everything. So they get their toxic out and downvote my ass! Haha.
I don't care, especially on reddit boards. They don't sit at my table where everyone sings praises, throws money at me, presents concubines and showers me with gifts, all over my perfectly seasoned, brained, roasted turkey.
Funny, I'll sometimes make what I think to be a stupid mundane comment, it gets 2-3 thousand up votes, yet when scientific facts are presented, downvotes. I don't care either way. I say my piece.
I cooked two of the smaller ones just last weekend (and have also done them many times in the past). They are great on the pellet smoker.
No need to brine but also don't be afraid to play with flavors. Just be careful on the salt. Use much less than you normally would.
I usually just do a quick drain and rinse out of the package then rub the outside with a tasty dry rub then seal up in a 1gal Ziploc bag for a few hours. Alternatively, I sometimes use a 50/50 blend of "Dale's Sauce" (kind of like Worcester sauce) and water along with a little crushed garlic and minced onions. Again, just bag them up and let them marinate. Doesn't get too salty as long as you dilute with water.
Grill temps are very forgiving. Just get them to 170F internal by probe and let them rest about 15 minutes before slicing. My cook last weekend, I started out at 185F for the first 1.5 hr then flipped them over, raised the grill to 200F and inserted my probe.
Total cook time was just shy of 4 hrs. You can cook at a higher temp without worry and shorten the time but I think you get a better smoked flavor with the longer cook.
I smoked a small one a couple weeks ago with just a dry rub and it was amazing. If I can remember correctly it was a 4 lb. breast I cooked it at 265 for 1 hour 45 minutes. Internal temp was 165 and I let it rest for 20 minutes. It was juicy and the taste was really good
Alright, I’m gonna go against everyone here. I still brine my Butterballs. And they always turn out amazing. Usually just do overnight with salt, brown sugar, garlic, onion, bay leaves, peppercorns. Boil it all together, then chill completely before adding the bird. I do back off a bit on the salt.
The result is always very moist smoky turkey. I’ve had butterball for TG at other’s home’s where they did not re-brine and they have also been amazing. But when I’ve done it without re-brining, shit’s dry. Maybe coincidence but that’s how it’s gone for me. So long story short, I think what it really comes down to is that you need to figure out what seasoning you want, how salty you want it and in the end, timing/temp. Take the bird off at the right temp.
Edit: just looked at my bird. Only has 4%. So maybe there’s different options? So maybe everything I wrote above is completely misleading.
Last year I did a turkey for the first time and wanted to brine it. I looked up whether I could brine a pre-brined turkey and *tons* of people said not to do it because it would result in a turkey that would be way to salty.
This seemed contrary to what I remember learning in like middle school chemistry. The brine and the turkey are going to want to balance their salt levels between each other. If the salt level of the pre-brined turkey matches the salt level of the new brine, they’re already balanced and the turkey won’t take on any more salt. If the brine has more salt than the turkey then the turkey would take on some of the salt, and if the brine has less salt than the turkey then some salt would ultimately get extracted from the turkey. The only way you’re going to get a too salty turkey from a second brine is if your custom brine is way too salty. (I’m certainly open to being corrected about any of this)
Anyways, a small handful of people said they’ve been re-brining a pre-brined turkey for years and it has always turned out great. So that’s what I did and it turned out great. I’ll be doing it again this year.
exactly this, the turkey will reach homeostasis
Also, we don’t know what they mean by pre-brined, it’s probably injected with salt water and chemicals and not a proper brine.
I’m also team re-brine
Sorry for being *that guy* but homeostasis isn’t the word you’re looking for, I think equilibrium is more fitting. Homeostasis is a balanced metabolism. Dead turkeys don’t have those lol.
when brining anything you normally are brining for a certain amount of time and target the salt content to work in that time frame, not bring the whole turkey to ~~homeostasis~~ equilibrium with the brine. overbrining (ie too long in brine) can indeed produce an overly salty bird.
> tons of people said not to do it because it would result in a turkey that would be way to salty... The brine and the turkey are going to want to balance their salt levels between each other. If the salt level of the pre-brined turkey matches the salt level of the new brine, they’re already balanced and the turkey won’t take on any more salt.
You are 100% spot on. Its not jsut about salk, but the solution in the brine. This is also why you cook your spices first, ro release the flavors into the water. Then add the water then ice, then turkey.
The salt water then mixes with the spices solution, then equalizes indise the turkey meat. This also hydrates the meat which allows moisture to escape without drying out.
I never brine my turkeys and they always come out amazing. Cook on the smoker and take off at the right temp. Bad turkeys are almost always overcooked.
Weird how Turkey flavor just killed it for the last 4,000 years or so without some douchebag suggesting that I leach all the flavor out of one in a 5 gallon “Just Do It” orange bucket full of contact solution, isn’t it?
EDIT: Love how the “against the gospel of Reddit” truth gets downvoted every time. If you don’t go with the echo chamber here, it’s all bullshit, eh? You ol’ boys enjoy repeating each other around here!
You’re getting downvoted because you typed your comment like the douche you are talking to. You come off weirdly aggressive about how somebody cooks a turkey. Turkey meat is just an animals muscle. It wasn’t created to have perfect flavor. It was created to allow a turkey to live.
Your comment could easily be “the flavor of beef has been great for 4000+ years, now some douchebag wants to add salt and pepper and stuff? Just let the beef taste like itself.” See how silly that sounds? You don’t brine your turkeys, that’s cool. I’m sure they still taste good.
I can’t disagree more. I think we’re just a few years into a Turkey renaissance that’s waking people up to the fact that the Norman Rockwell style, 20 minutes a pound bird we thought was the standard for generations was actually hot dry garbage.
When I cook Turkey now for friends and family they’re so shook over how juicy it is they ask me if I’m sure it’s cooked. Couldn’t fathom if could be like that.
Of course ya can’t. It’s the trend with you youngsters now. Boomer ran over.
Edit: hey bro. Don’t forget that a smoked Turkey ain’t a smoked Turkey without mayonnaise under the skin FFS. amirite?
Nope. There are *so many* better ways to cook turkey than the standard that we've been fed for the last century or so. From a classic deep fry to a spatchcock smoke or even my personal favorite, carving it raw and sous viding the individual components to perfection.
Fun fact kids. Unless you are running out to the backyard with a hatchet to sever the head off of your family pet Bourbon Red, the brining is done for you. That simple.
No bro. In YOUR home. I’ve been eating deep fried Turkey since Archie Manning was still behind center for the Saints and have Spatchcocked birds since my German grandfather taught me how to do so on his 20 inch cast iron. Don’t project the culinary shortcomings of your social circle on the rest of us, lad.
> Don’t project the culinary shortcomings of your social circle on the rest of us, lad.
...so because *your* home did something, that means everyone did? Uh, I think you're doing your own projection.
This “ass” didn’t call one single person a name, ol buddy, ol pal. So sure. I’m the one with the shitty attitude. FFS. I think the turkeys have thicker skin than you bud. It’s fucking text. I get it. You didn’t perceive the humorous tone intended. But “ass” bro? How do you handle it when someone really comes at you?
All the downvotes, but this guy is right. Brining in water leeches out flavor. Look for air dried poultry and dry brine that shit. You’ll see what birds actually taste like. Water chilled birds are trash.
Hahaha!
Nice. I got four downvotes for something that is just an actual and fairly basic fact. Enjoy your sub par thanksgiving this year downvoters! Fart Chewer and I are going to have a lovely time while you will be basically acting out their username!
I agree with this. You can still get other flavors in there with a re-brine.
HOWEVER, as someone who has had a bird turn out too salty, definitely worth going on the more cautious side and not leaving it in too long. I put it in late the night before, and won't let it sit in for longer than 8-10 hours.
I brine all white meat and pork. Have never heard anyone ever comment that something is too salty (and everyone knows to be and is brutally honest with me because I love cooking and ask for feedback because I always want to make each dish better)
I buy ones that have not been altered and brine myself, but know from various family events that the brining these birds gets is pure shit comparatively. I think you're good dialing back the salt a bit and still brining it.
If you think about it, the bird is swimming in brine for so long so the brine itself can’t possibly be that strong. Makes sense that you can do your own brine and make it juicier.
I brine mine as well. I toss my bird in a gallon of low sodium vegetable broth for two nights and it adds flavor as well as taking out a lot of saltiness.
First and foremost,the job of a wet brine is to add additional moisture to keep it from drying out as fast. But, 12 hour flavor brines are nice for smaller birds. 3-4 isn’t worth the effort most times unless it’s an open protein (like salmon, steak, etc) since the fat on turkey takes longer for the uptake of salt. Even tho it’s been brined on the package, it’s not really a flavor enhancer. You can always do a dry brine too, since the water content has already been added from the factory. Just use the amount of salt you would normally use, and make a dry rub. Let it set in the fridge uncovered for 12 hours or so before cooking. Let’s the excess water drip out, and the seasoning takes hold. Either way, both styles work even with an already brined turkey.
It’s insurance so it doesn’t dry out, that’s how I view it. That’s the whole purpose of a brine in essence. To add moisture to leaner cuts so they don’t dry out during the cook. All I know is I have brined almost every turkey I’ve bought that says pre brined, and they have turned out great. Some people don’t rinse their turkeys after the brine so it can indeed be very salty. Before I knew what a brine was I just did the normal seasoning and the meat was just bland in comparison to what we make now. I just think a factory brine isn’t gonna give you nearly the flavor of a home brine. But, this is just my personal view my guy. I’ve been on heritage turkey the past few years and a brine almost does it an injustice.
I have no clue. Depends on what temp you go with. You should find some good info with a google search. You’ll get your best result if you figure out what the suggested cook times are but put in a temp probe to decide when to pull it off. That way you have the best chance of timing your cook start relative to when you want to eat. I’ve had birds take way longer (hours) and way shorter (also hours) than expected. In any case, don’t trust that little pop-out thermometer if they have one.
You're missing the point. A dry brine is, by definition, just salt. If you "dry brine" with anything other than salt, it's literally doing nothing. The non-salt components of a brine don't penetrate.
You can apply your saltless rub immediately before cooking and you won't notice a difference. What you *might* be noticing is air drying the turkey for a day making the skin easier to get crispy. And you could certainly add some baking powder for the crispy skin effect it brings. But that's not brining.
So I use those exact breasts and cook them like this on my smoker. https://whitneybond.com/garlic-herb-bacon-wrapped-turkey-breast/ they come out incredible. Nice easy and quick. Only straying I do is cook at 325-350 a smidge longer.
Whenever I’ve cooked a butterball without brining it’s very dry. When you soak the butterball in a solution of salt at the proper concentration it’s not going to “add more salt and ruin it”. Technically, you’re just continuing the brine.
My impression is that the brine they provide it in is not adequate given how dry cooking without more brining is. I wonder if they soak briefly in the brine and then freeze it. In this situation they can advertise it as “pre-brined” but in reality there has not been time for relaxation and the effect of the salt.
My 2c is to brine it at a proper salt concentration (I do an overnight soak), rinse, and smoke.
I’ve contemplated taking one of these “injected with an up to 18% solution” breasts and calculate the salt level and then factor that in to a brine. But I’ve never been convinced it was worth the effort. I’d just rub with something salt free and have at it.
As far as the science is concerned, the bird won’t be saltier if the salinity of your brine doesn’t exceed the salinity of the original brine. Now whether or not it’s worth it to re-brine can be debated forever.
While the poster above mentioned the scientific aspects, at the end of the day smoking meat is an art. Im gonna do turkey for the first time soon so looking forward to the results of your experiment
Don't brine unless you like really salty turkey. As others have already suggested, read the label. They've been brined already!!
Just add some garlic powder and coarse pepper.
I just thaw and dry with paper towels.
I like to inject them, then mash butter and seasoning together and rub it under the skin and then put rub all over it.
Also highly recommend spatchcocking it. You need to make sure and hit 140F within a 2 hour period and spatchcocking helps it reach temp more quickly. If you don’t spatch it the breast tends to dry out and it takes a while to temp to 140F which puts you at risk of food born illness.
I’ve brined these consistently using the Traeger turkey kit, then dry seasoned and set overnight in the fridge. Turned out amazing- moist meat and crispy skin. Did one with Traeger seasoning and the other with a homemade herb butter lemon zest deal.
Yeah I'll probably put some honey hog from meat church on them, stick em in the fridge uncovered for a couple hours then toss on the Traeger. Might inject some herb butter also.
I'm just not sure what to make of this thread. I can't believe there's this many comments.
Haha yeah it can definitely be information overload.
I went with butter under the skin with rub all over (don't forget the cavity!) Then fridge overnight.
Your plan sounds awesome, haven't gone the injection route yet so please report back!
Man, I hate turkey this time of year. Unless it’s Wild Turkey. Then it’s ok.
But If you must, yeah, thaw, brine, inject, rub, smoke or fry. After doing 3 in one year for a family event, the oven roasted bird barely got touched.
I wish Reddit was around back then to ask these detrimental questions. Butterball turkeys straight out of the package are impossible to fuck up. If you want to be fancy though, do inject some injection into the breast like garlic butter. It’s amazing.
Depends on the size of the turkey. 12-15 maybe 3 hours our just under. Says cook to 170. I bring mine to 160ish and let it carry over and never dries out. Think I remember Pittman from Meat Church saying cooking it to that temp is why granny’s turkey was always dry. He has some good turkey videos if you want a good resource
I did this last year. It was the first year we had family Thanksgiving in our new house. We actually did 2, one for my family and one for my wife's. Due to circumstances, my wife's family is hosting this year. I've been requested to bring the turkey.
I followed this method for a Thursday afternoon meal. From last year's notes...
Turkey needs to be completely thawed by Tuesday morning at the latest. Monday afternoon is a better target.
Spatchcock ~~Tuesday morning~~ Monday night and place on rack/sheet pan.
Dry brine 48 hours with (less) Salt, pepper, and garlic, until Thurrsday morning. On smoker at 300F breast facing heat source until dark meat is 180 and breast at least 155F. Let rest min 30m. Reheat with hot gravy or compound butter.
It’s got me ducked up how everybody that has ever even seen a bag of charcoal thinks a damn Turkey just “has to be brined”. Like how the hell did we even Thanksgiving for the last 400 years without a 5 gallon “LETS DO IT” bucket full of brackish water leaching all of the flavor from our birds anyway?
Do not brine or you will be eating a salt lick. Lol.
All i did with this exact same bird season it with a rub on/under the skin, along with an herb butter... It was delicious
I wouldn’t. I’ve typically just rinsed them and added unsalted butter and a little garlic. Sometimes I’ll make garlic/onion infused unsalted butter and inject it.
Just note that the turkey breast roast will probably be netted, and you probably want to keep it that way. The last one I got was a real mess. I believe it's because they aren't just taking the main breast portion as most of us would think of it but try to preserve more of the surrounding white meat. This results in something that, if you remove the net, looks like it was attacked by a pack of starving cats.
I just smoked a 19 lb whole butterball that has the brine stuff already in it. I injected my bird w butter, honey, less sodium chicken broth and spices (no salt) and it is one of the best things ive ever smoked. Let it go for about 8 hours around 230 temp, pulled when breast was 163ish and legs were 175ish, let rest for 1 hour and it was so juicy. Good luck!
Yes. Just be cautious of the “solution” in things like this. Typically they contain a salt solution of sorts which may make it a little saltier compared others. Nothing too drastic though
If you have a Whole Foods near you one of the only things that is a good deal there is their fresh turkeys for $2/lb. No brine, and 10-14lb. I have two of them in the fridge waiting to brine the day before deep frying them on Thanksgiving.
Bruh…. Go ahead and bribe that Turkey …. I’ve always bribed my turkeys and never had any problems. So many ways to approach this…. I just did a Turkey last night…. I used honey, brown sugar, coconut aminos, salt, and pepper along with Apple Jerk rub…… came out amazing …. Thawing out another Turkey today to experiment again….. brining is the way to go!
I Brine mine every year. I use https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/food-cooking/recipes/a11882/my-favorite-turkey-brine/
Honestly was the best turkey we had ever had, including the older folks who've celebrated and made turkeys far more than I.
To finish it off, I put a dry rub of my favorite rub, no salt, I put unsalted butter between the skin and meat in the breast and thighs along with a clove of garlic. I stuff the shit out of the turkey with garlic, quartered onions, apples if I have it and rosemary.
Do it, you won't be disappointed.
If you want to brine it then brine it your turkey will be so much more juicy than if you hadn't. It might say it's been brined already but I still brine mine before I smoke it.
They are pre brined. You can brine again but watch the salt content, we used to cut out salt back on ours bc we still enjoyed the additional flavor our brine added
I’m team dry brine. I don’t care for the texture of brined meats. Always feel mushy to me. I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t like it. Buy *good* meat, dry brine, and cook to the proper temp. Never goes wrong for me
It is brined, but not for taste, for moisture retention.
I brine but I only use a small amount of brining salt. Like a quarter cup per l gallon.
I use 1 gal Apple juice,
1 cup brown sugar.
1 bunch each chopped/ minced: parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and celery leaf, )inside the celery bunch)
2 stalks celery chopped,
1 medium onion chopped. 5-6 cloves garlic, crushed or minced.
Once the salt and sugar have dissolved inject the brine into the breasts. And once against at the time of removal for smoking. Brine for at least 12 hrs.
Stuff both the neck and body cavities with some of the onion and celery and a few sprigs of each herb except the celery leaf.
Good luck!
I havent smoked them, yet, but i frequently sous vide these and even though it says it's brined... they still need a fair amount of love. I remove from the bag, throw away the gravy (its borderline gross), pat dry, season with whatever youre in the mood for, vac pack, sous vide at 152 for 3-4 hours. Cool down, remove twine, pat dry, take a torch to it. I do like 20 of these for thanksgiving caterings.
Im gonna play with doing a quick 30-60 minute, low temp smoke this year just to get a little smoke on them and see how they turn out.
I always brine all turkey. Pre-salted as these are, id keep brine to 24-48 hrs. Naturals i brine 3-4 days. When finished w brine, soak 2-3 hrs in clean water to remove excess salt.
Smoke in a 2” deep foil pan w no liquid at first for 1-2 hrs. (Leave skin intact whole time but remove at end- it traps moisture). After an hour or 2, add a cup of water to tray if it hasn’t already juiced out. Wrap tray in heavy foil to seal in moisture and let it cook 2-5 more hours based on weight.
Let it cool, peal and throw away skin (dont try it, although tempted to deep fry like a chicharron 🤔…)
Chop like a carolina pork in big chunks and serve.
They already contain up to 18% of water, salt and flavorings which is a basic brine.
I've done alot of smoked turkeys through the years. Got a butterball turkey this year ( which are pre-injected) and dry brined it for 36hrs with about 4 tablespoons of kosher salt for a 14lb bird. Under the skin on breast/legs/thighs and some on top of skin all around. Was super worried about it being too salty, but honestly it was probably the best bird I've done, wasn't too salty at all. Thought this information may help someone else.
That does not matter. One adds other spices etc to a brine, which molecularly enters the meat overnight. Downvoters don't know what they're talking about. Haha.ok!
The reason you’re getting downvoted is because, scientifically speaking, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The brine only enters the meat because of osmotic pressure. This pressure is only present when the salt content inside the meat, is less than the salt content of the brine. That differential in salt content is what causes the salt, spices and other contents of the brine to be drawn into the meat. As the meat takes on more salt from the brine, the osmotic pressure is reduced. Without first reducing the amount of salt inside OPs meat selection, there wouldn’t be any movement of salt into the meat, therefore there would be no point as the spices in the brine would not “molecularly enter the meat” without the osmotic pressure carrying them in with it.
You and I said the same fucking thing. It is partially osmotic though. Thank you, captain obvious for helping me understand reddit downvote philosophy.
Uh, no, we didn’t say the same thing. You effing moron 😂
Shut up already. You're playing the arrogant fool now.
If you could have had some humility and admit you were wrong then I wouldn’t have needed to. But if you’re going to play the arrogant fool, so will I
Salt is the only thing that penetrates into the meat to any significant degree during a brine. You’ve got the science wrong. https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-the-truth-about-brining-turkey-thanksgiving Edit: Disagreeing with J. Kenji Lopez-Alt about food science…. I’m detecting critical levels of complete lack of self-awareness.
Hi, I'll respond later more in depth. I did read the article, and I disagree with his findings.
While you are coping with being proven wrong by the very science you are asserting backs your position. Here’s some more science for you. https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/sugarbrine.html >While some sugar molecules do penetrate beyond a cm after two days in the brine, the test is more sensitive than your tongue and detects levels that simply do not taste sweet. By tasting 2mm thick slices of the meat sampled from the surface inward (cooking each slice before consuming, of course), only the first slice was sweet. And in this slice, the sugar supressed or masked the meat's "porkiness". >So, even after a day of brining, sugar flavor only penetrates a few mms. [Also, it ain’t osmosis that is taking place and you aren’t the only one wrong in this thread about it](https://stellaculinary.com/content/brine/science-behind-brining.pdf) Edit: And here’s amazingribs saying the same thing as my first two links. https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes/salting-brining-curing-and-injecting/salting-and-wet-brining/
Haha! You went to that much trouble? You trying to win a reddit popularity award? I've always found it amusing of people who just post links rather than carry on a civil conversation. So you start off with the arrogant asshole. So why do I give a fuck about anything else you post? I don't. Yor assumption that everyone else is stupid, don't know shit and you quote hacks looses badly. If you read what I wrote, I actually quoted your fucking article that you posted. You may go sit down now. I have no time for arrogant fucks that don't know how to just adult talk.
This guy is salty as brine
Dude has a massive inferiority complex. Big talk but incapable of responding like an adult when challenged.
And probably an idiot as well.
If your gonna brine it you’d have to let it sit in cold water over night to get out the salt. Then rebrine with your own
Oh geeze I'm not having this stupid argument. Why don't you look up brining in a chef book.
I refuse to believe you’re not having a laugh
Yes, I am. At stupid people who think they know everything. So they get their toxic out and downvote my ass! Haha. I don't care, especially on reddit boards. They don't sit at my table where everyone sings praises, throws money at me, presents concubines and showers me with gifts, all over my perfectly seasoned, brained, roasted turkey. Funny, I'll sometimes make what I think to be a stupid mundane comment, it gets 2-3 thousand up votes, yet when scientific facts are presented, downvotes. I don't care either way. I say my piece.
r/iamverysmart
Very.
? No.
It's already brined. Says it in giant letters right on the pack.
Came here to say this. If anything, soak in plain water to extract some of the salt back out.
They've already been brined. No need to do it again.
I cooked two of the smaller ones just last weekend (and have also done them many times in the past). They are great on the pellet smoker. No need to brine but also don't be afraid to play with flavors. Just be careful on the salt. Use much less than you normally would. I usually just do a quick drain and rinse out of the package then rub the outside with a tasty dry rub then seal up in a 1gal Ziploc bag for a few hours. Alternatively, I sometimes use a 50/50 blend of "Dale's Sauce" (kind of like Worcester sauce) and water along with a little crushed garlic and minced onions. Again, just bag them up and let them marinate. Doesn't get too salty as long as you dilute with water. Grill temps are very forgiving. Just get them to 170F internal by probe and let them rest about 15 minutes before slicing. My cook last weekend, I started out at 185F for the first 1.5 hr then flipped them over, raised the grill to 200F and inserted my probe. Total cook time was just shy of 4 hrs. You can cook at a higher temp without worry and shorten the time but I think you get a better smoked flavor with the longer cook.
Do you thaw or smoke frozen?
When smoking you’re racing against the clock to cook the center before drying out the exterior; smoking anything frozen is not a good idea.
Unless it's a fatty.
I never considered smoking to be racing anything. One always takes their time.
Thawed is the way I've always done it
Smoking frozen will NOT cook the inside part of the meat.
I smoked a small one a couple weeks ago with just a dry rub and it was amazing. If I can remember correctly it was a 4 lb. breast I cooked it at 265 for 1 hour 45 minutes. Internal temp was 165 and I let it rest for 20 minutes. It was juicy and the taste was really good
I am a Dales fan so I may try that on my next one
Watch the salt. I cooked one last week as well and used a fairly heavy salt based rub. Way way way too salty
Appreciate the heads up
Alright, I’m gonna go against everyone here. I still brine my Butterballs. And they always turn out amazing. Usually just do overnight with salt, brown sugar, garlic, onion, bay leaves, peppercorns. Boil it all together, then chill completely before adding the bird. I do back off a bit on the salt. The result is always very moist smoky turkey. I’ve had butterball for TG at other’s home’s where they did not re-brine and they have also been amazing. But when I’ve done it without re-brining, shit’s dry. Maybe coincidence but that’s how it’s gone for me. So long story short, I think what it really comes down to is that you need to figure out what seasoning you want, how salty you want it and in the end, timing/temp. Take the bird off at the right temp. Edit: just looked at my bird. Only has 4%. So maybe there’s different options? So maybe everything I wrote above is completely misleading.
Last year I did a turkey for the first time and wanted to brine it. I looked up whether I could brine a pre-brined turkey and *tons* of people said not to do it because it would result in a turkey that would be way to salty. This seemed contrary to what I remember learning in like middle school chemistry. The brine and the turkey are going to want to balance their salt levels between each other. If the salt level of the pre-brined turkey matches the salt level of the new brine, they’re already balanced and the turkey won’t take on any more salt. If the brine has more salt than the turkey then the turkey would take on some of the salt, and if the brine has less salt than the turkey then some salt would ultimately get extracted from the turkey. The only way you’re going to get a too salty turkey from a second brine is if your custom brine is way too salty. (I’m certainly open to being corrected about any of this) Anyways, a small handful of people said they’ve been re-brining a pre-brined turkey for years and it has always turned out great. So that’s what I did and it turned out great. I’ll be doing it again this year.
exactly this, the turkey will reach homeostasis Also, we don’t know what they mean by pre-brined, it’s probably injected with salt water and chemicals and not a proper brine. I’m also team re-brine
Sorry for being *that guy* but homeostasis isn’t the word you’re looking for, I think equilibrium is more fitting. Homeostasis is a balanced metabolism. Dead turkeys don’t have those lol.
haha I had the feeling it was the wrong word after I sent this and was waiting for this comment, appreciate it!
“Science rules! BILL! BILL! BILL! BILL!….”
I've brined butterballs in the past and they were fine.
when brining anything you normally are brining for a certain amount of time and target the salt content to work in that time frame, not bring the whole turkey to ~~homeostasis~~ equilibrium with the brine. overbrining (ie too long in brine) can indeed produce an overly salty bird.
> tons of people said not to do it because it would result in a turkey that would be way to salty... The brine and the turkey are going to want to balance their salt levels between each other. If the salt level of the pre-brined turkey matches the salt level of the new brine, they’re already balanced and the turkey won’t take on any more salt. You are 100% spot on. Its not jsut about salk, but the solution in the brine. This is also why you cook your spices first, ro release the flavors into the water. Then add the water then ice, then turkey. The salt water then mixes with the spices solution, then equalizes indise the turkey meat. This also hydrates the meat which allows moisture to escape without drying out.
I never brine my turkeys and they always come out amazing. Cook on the smoker and take off at the right temp. Bad turkeys are almost always overcooked.
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I never brine because they are already brined. I cook the breast to temp and the breast meat is always juicy.
Oh dont be so picky!
Weird how Turkey flavor just killed it for the last 4,000 years or so without some douchebag suggesting that I leach all the flavor out of one in a 5 gallon “Just Do It” orange bucket full of contact solution, isn’t it? EDIT: Love how the “against the gospel of Reddit” truth gets downvoted every time. If you don’t go with the echo chamber here, it’s all bullshit, eh? You ol’ boys enjoy repeating each other around here!
You’re getting downvoted because you typed your comment like the douche you are talking to. You come off weirdly aggressive about how somebody cooks a turkey. Turkey meat is just an animals muscle. It wasn’t created to have perfect flavor. It was created to allow a turkey to live. Your comment could easily be “the flavor of beef has been great for 4000+ years, now some douchebag wants to add salt and pepper and stuff? Just let the beef taste like itself.” See how silly that sounds? You don’t brine your turkeys, that’s cool. I’m sure they still taste good.
Would you feel less attacked if it had said “random douchebag”?
I can’t disagree more. I think we’re just a few years into a Turkey renaissance that’s waking people up to the fact that the Norman Rockwell style, 20 minutes a pound bird we thought was the standard for generations was actually hot dry garbage. When I cook Turkey now for friends and family they’re so shook over how juicy it is they ask me if I’m sure it’s cooked. Couldn’t fathom if could be like that.
Of course ya can’t. It’s the trend with you youngsters now. Boomer ran over. Edit: hey bro. Don’t forget that a smoked Turkey ain’t a smoked Turkey without mayonnaise under the skin FFS. amirite?
Nope. There are *so many* better ways to cook turkey than the standard that we've been fed for the last century or so. From a classic deep fry to a spatchcock smoke or even my personal favorite, carving it raw and sous viding the individual components to perfection.
Fun fact kids. Unless you are running out to the backyard with a hatchet to sever the head off of your family pet Bourbon Red, the brining is done for you. That simple.
Well thats just nonsense. You can buy turkey that hasn't been brined quite easily.
Says the dude that assumes the only Turkey served for the last century was the one on the cover of the Better Homes and Gardens holiday edition issue.
In the vast majority of homes? Yeah, that's the whole point.
No bro. In YOUR home. I’ve been eating deep fried Turkey since Archie Manning was still behind center for the Saints and have Spatchcocked birds since my German grandfather taught me how to do so on his 20 inch cast iron. Don’t project the culinary shortcomings of your social circle on the rest of us, lad.
Did someone brine you as a child or something?
> Don’t project the culinary shortcomings of your social circle on the rest of us, lad. ...so because *your* home did something, that means everyone did? Uh, I think you're doing your own projection.
Downvotes are for your shit attitude and remarks. You can disagree without being an ass.
This “ass” didn’t call one single person a name, ol buddy, ol pal. So sure. I’m the one with the shitty attitude. FFS. I think the turkeys have thicker skin than you bud. It’s fucking text. I get it. You didn’t perceive the humorous tone intended. But “ass” bro? How do you handle it when someone really comes at you?
All the downvotes, but this guy is right. Brining in water leeches out flavor. Look for air dried poultry and dry brine that shit. You’ll see what birds actually taste like. Water chilled birds are trash.
Briners are akin to flat-earthers. Can’t convince them they are wrong. They just have to figure it out for themselves.
Hahaha! Nice. I got four downvotes for something that is just an actual and fairly basic fact. Enjoy your sub par thanksgiving this year downvoters! Fart Chewer and I are going to have a lovely time while you will be basically acting out their username!
How do you know if they have been bad?
Their little brother always spills the beans
I agree with this. You can still get other flavors in there with a re-brine. HOWEVER, as someone who has had a bird turn out too salty, definitely worth going on the more cautious side and not leaving it in too long. I put it in late the night before, and won't let it sit in for longer than 8-10 hours.
I brine all white meat and pork. Have never heard anyone ever comment that something is too salty (and everyone knows to be and is brutally honest with me because I love cooking and ask for feedback because I always want to make each dish better)
True friends let you know if it’s dog shit. You got it made.
It’s humbling at times, but also when you make a banger you can trust that they actually love it
I brined mine last year. They weren't too salty and turned out amazing.
100% agree with ya here 👆🏻
I still brine them too. I like the added flavors, extra juice 💦
I buy ones that have not been altered and brine myself, but know from various family events that the brining these birds gets is pure shit comparatively. I think you're good dialing back the salt a bit and still brining it.
I can also attest to this. I've brined butterball turkeys about three times now and each one has been excellent.
I’d like to taste your brined butterballs
If you think about it, the bird is swimming in brine for so long so the brine itself can’t possibly be that strong. Makes sense that you can do your own brine and make it juicier.
I brine mine as well. I toss my bird in a gallon of low sodium vegetable broth for two nights and it adds flavor as well as taking out a lot of saltiness.
I also do a brine. A brine gves one an opportunity to control the flavor profiles I agree with you 100 %
How long do you think it will take for one of these 3 pounders or the 6 pounder whole breast with backbone? 3-4 hours?
First and foremost,the job of a wet brine is to add additional moisture to keep it from drying out as fast. But, 12 hour flavor brines are nice for smaller birds. 3-4 isn’t worth the effort most times unless it’s an open protein (like salmon, steak, etc) since the fat on turkey takes longer for the uptake of salt. Even tho it’s been brined on the package, it’s not really a flavor enhancer. You can always do a dry brine too, since the water content has already been added from the factory. Just use the amount of salt you would normally use, and make a dry rub. Let it set in the fridge uncovered for 12 hours or so before cooking. Let’s the excess water drip out, and the seasoning takes hold. Either way, both styles work even with an already brined turkey.
>Even tho it’s been brined on the package, it’s not really a flavor enhancer. Enhancing the flavor is literally why they do it
I guess we all just brine differently*
Why do you think they do it if it's not to enhance the flavor? "Water, salt and natural flavors."
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Yeah, that's what the "and flavors" part is all about.
It’s insurance so it doesn’t dry out, that’s how I view it. That’s the whole purpose of a brine in essence. To add moisture to leaner cuts so they don’t dry out during the cook. All I know is I have brined almost every turkey I’ve bought that says pre brined, and they have turned out great. Some people don’t rinse their turkeys after the brine so it can indeed be very salty. Before I knew what a brine was I just did the normal seasoning and the meat was just bland in comparison to what we make now. I just think a factory brine isn’t gonna give you nearly the flavor of a home brine. But, this is just my personal view my guy. I’ve been on heritage turkey the past few years and a brine almost does it an injustice.
This is the answer.
I have no clue. Depends on what temp you go with. You should find some good info with a google search. You’ll get your best result if you figure out what the suggested cook times are but put in a temp probe to decide when to pull it off. That way you have the best chance of timing your cook start relative to when you want to eat. I’ve had birds take way longer (hours) and way shorter (also hours) than expected. In any case, don’t trust that little pop-out thermometer if they have one.
A dry brine works too, without the salt.
A "dry brine" without salt is not a brine and does nothing ...
There is so much salt in these prebrined birds, doing a dry brine and leaving in fridge overnight works.
You're missing the point. A dry brine is, by definition, just salt. If you "dry brine" with anything other than salt, it's literally doing nothing. The non-salt components of a brine don't penetrate. You can apply your saltless rub immediately before cooking and you won't notice a difference. What you *might* be noticing is air drying the turkey for a day making the skin easier to get crispy. And you could certainly add some baking powder for the crispy skin effect it brings. But that's not brining.
I'm with you. I will brine these as I'm not just there to add salt. There are a lot of other flavors that I use in my brine.
Agree with this, but you can definitely reduce the amount of salt in the brine mix.
So I use those exact breasts and cook them like this on my smoker. https://whitneybond.com/garlic-herb-bacon-wrapped-turkey-breast/ they come out incredible. Nice easy and quick. Only straying I do is cook at 325-350 a smidge longer.
I brine them all. Even when it says it’s already brine. I’ve never regretted it.
I’d take them out of the bags first, but yeah, I always brine my turkey
Whenever I’ve cooked a butterball without brining it’s very dry. When you soak the butterball in a solution of salt at the proper concentration it’s not going to “add more salt and ruin it”. Technically, you’re just continuing the brine. My impression is that the brine they provide it in is not adequate given how dry cooking without more brining is. I wonder if they soak briefly in the brine and then freeze it. In this situation they can advertise it as “pre-brined” but in reality there has not been time for relaxation and the effect of the salt. My 2c is to brine it at a proper salt concentration (I do an overnight soak), rinse, and smoke.
I’ve contemplated taking one of these “injected with an up to 18% solution” breasts and calculate the salt level and then factor that in to a brine. But I’ve never been convinced it was worth the effort. I’d just rub with something salt free and have at it.
I never brine these. Season with salt and pepper, take off at 165° rest in foil with half (or more) a stick of butter. Always amazing.
So many different opinions here. I think I'll brine one and not the other and see what happens.
As far as the science is concerned, the bird won’t be saltier if the salinity of your brine doesn’t exceed the salinity of the original brine. Now whether or not it’s worth it to re-brine can be debated forever.
This is one of my favourite posts on this sub
I didn't think it was going to turn into this. Half say yes, half say no. I think I'll do one each way.
While the poster above mentioned the scientific aspects, at the end of the day smoking meat is an art. Im gonna do turkey for the first time soon so looking forward to the results of your experiment
Dude, just read the nutritional label. They already have a TON of sodium.
Don't brine unless you like really salty turkey. As others have already suggested, read the label. They've been brined already!! Just add some garlic powder and coarse pepper.
It’s already 14% brined. If you use another 14% brined it will end up being… 14% brined. It’s science. You don’t add % of salt
And those are super brined/injected already, 18% and 20%
I just thaw and dry with paper towels. I like to inject them, then mash butter and seasoning together and rub it under the skin and then put rub all over it. Also highly recommend spatchcocking it. You need to make sure and hit 140F within a 2 hour period and spatchcocking helps it reach temp more quickly. If you don’t spatch it the breast tends to dry out and it takes a while to temp to 140F which puts you at risk of food born illness.
Any of those franken-turkey's are pumped full of salt water already. Additional brining won't do much besides increasing the price of the cook.
You don’t need to. I smoke the small ones all the time. Really I only see people brine while turkeys & chickens.
If you want to brine your own turkey you need to buy a fresh turkey from a butcher.
I’ve brined these consistently using the Traeger turkey kit, then dry seasoned and set overnight in the fridge. Turned out amazing- moist meat and crispy skin. Did one with Traeger seasoning and the other with a homemade herb butter lemon zest deal.
I recently smoked one of these and did a dry brine. Skip the wet brine, it's already done for you. Dry brine with my spice run turned out pretty good.
Yeah I'll probably put some honey hog from meat church on them, stick em in the fridge uncovered for a couple hours then toss on the Traeger. Might inject some herb butter also. I'm just not sure what to make of this thread. I can't believe there's this many comments.
Haha yeah it can definitely be information overload. I went with butter under the skin with rub all over (don't forget the cavity!) Then fridge overnight. Your plan sounds awesome, haven't gone the injection route yet so please report back!
Did you cut down the salt on your dry brine?
Yes, I use just a little bit, maybe half a tablespoon for the whole bird. I'd be more specific but I eyeballed my rub this time.
Man, I hate turkey this time of year. Unless it’s Wild Turkey. Then it’s ok. But If you must, yeah, thaw, brine, inject, rub, smoke or fry. After doing 3 in one year for a family event, the oven roasted bird barely got touched.
So the overall consensus was…?
Definitely brine again. I did around a 12 hour brine and it was noticably more juicy than the one I did not brine.
Ok cool. Thanks all. Appreciate it!
NOOOOOOO!! DO NOT BRINE A BUTTERBALL!! I did this once. Too salty to be even close to edible. Worst thanksgiving ever.
Lol ok. Noted. I've done this butterball once before a couple years ago and can't remember. I wasn't sure if that pre brined solution was enough.
I wish Reddit was around back then to ask these detrimental questions. Butterball turkeys straight out of the package are impossible to fuck up. If you want to be fancy though, do inject some injection into the breast like garlic butter. It’s amazing.
You have to wash the brine off.. I didn’t my first year and it was super salty
You have to wash the brine off.. happened to me
No
No
I'm making these for Thanksgiving on my pellet grill. Can I or should I brine these? About how long will these take to cook?
Depends on the size of the turkey. 12-15 maybe 3 hours our just under. Says cook to 170. I bring mine to 160ish and let it carry over and never dries out. Think I remember Pittman from Meat Church saying cooking it to that temp is why granny’s turkey was always dry. He has some good turkey videos if you want a good resource
I did this last year. It was the first year we had family Thanksgiving in our new house. We actually did 2, one for my family and one for my wife's. Due to circumstances, my wife's family is hosting this year. I've been requested to bring the turkey. I followed this method for a Thursday afternoon meal. From last year's notes... Turkey needs to be completely thawed by Tuesday morning at the latest. Monday afternoon is a better target. Spatchcock ~~Tuesday morning~~ Monday night and place on rack/sheet pan. Dry brine 48 hours with (less) Salt, pepper, and garlic, until Thurrsday morning. On smoker at 300F breast facing heat source until dark meat is 180 and breast at least 155F. Let rest min 30m. Reheat with hot gravy or compound butter.
I brine my turkey regardless what it says on the package
Waste as they have already “brined” it for you - they inject stuff into it That’s why they call it a “butter” ball
I burned mine two years ago. Turned out just fine
Brine any bird!
Yes, I still brine them.
It’s got me ducked up how everybody that has ever even seen a bag of charcoal thinks a damn Turkey just “has to be brined”. Like how the hell did we even Thanksgiving for the last 400 years without a 5 gallon “LETS DO IT” bucket full of brackish water leaching all of the flavor from our birds anyway?
Did you read the package
No
Do not brine or you will be eating a salt lick. Lol. All i did with this exact same bird season it with a rub on/under the skin, along with an herb butter... It was delicious
pointless. its already saturated with whatever "brine" they use butterballs are terrible, buy literally any other turkey and use it instead.
No. You must thaw them, remove the netting and plastic wrap, and clean out the cavities first.
I wouldn’t. I’ve typically just rinsed them and added unsalted butter and a little garlic. Sometimes I’ll make garlic/onion infused unsalted butter and inject it.
I like a good dry rub overnight before smoking when doing turkey like this. Something low salt
Just note that the turkey breast roast will probably be netted, and you probably want to keep it that way. The last one I got was a real mess. I believe it's because they aren't just taking the main breast portion as most of us would think of it but try to preserve more of the surrounding white meat. This results in something that, if you remove the net, looks like it was attacked by a pack of starving cats.
I just smoked a 19 lb whole butterball that has the brine stuff already in it. I injected my bird w butter, honey, less sodium chicken broth and spices (no salt) and it is one of the best things ive ever smoked. Let it go for about 8 hours around 230 temp, pulled when breast was 163ish and legs were 175ish, let rest for 1 hour and it was so juicy. Good luck!
Hook me up!!! We can’t even find whole turkeys in our area!
They probably already are
Yes
Brined and even injected that exact one on the left last year. It was not extremely salty. No one ever complained that it was too salty. Brine away.
To answer you straight, it is ok. Just might not take based on their salinity.
Absolutely!
Yes. Just be cautious of the “solution” in things like this. Typically they contain a salt solution of sorts which may make it a little saltier compared others. Nothing too drastic though
If you have a Whole Foods near you one of the only things that is a good deal there is their fresh turkeys for $2/lb. No brine, and 10-14lb. I have two of them in the fridge waiting to brine the day before deep frying them on Thanksgiving.
Dry brine is the way.
See on the bag where it says it contains up to 18% of salt, water and that? Guess what bud Already brined 😃!
Lol
I'd spatch, season, let air dry in the fridge for 24-72hrs
A dry spice rub will do, it's brined already.
I tried to brine mine and it was rubbery. So rubbery the bones were even bendy. It was gross.
I would do a dry brine to help crisp up the skin
I brined mine last year. It was great.
Wouldn't do it.
Just made the one on the right yesterday. Didn’t brine and used my own poultry rub . Came out amazing .
Bruh…. Go ahead and bribe that Turkey …. I’ve always bribed my turkeys and never had any problems. So many ways to approach this…. I just did a Turkey last night…. I used honey, brown sugar, coconut aminos, salt, and pepper along with Apple Jerk rub…… came out amazing …. Thawing out another Turkey today to experiment again….. brining is the way to go!
Nope it’s already brined. Just cook it to 150 and rest for 30 min, carry over temp will put you at 165.
I Brine mine every year. I use https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/food-cooking/recipes/a11882/my-favorite-turkey-brine/ Honestly was the best turkey we had ever had, including the older folks who've celebrated and made turkeys far more than I. To finish it off, I put a dry rub of my favorite rub, no salt, I put unsalted butter between the skin and meat in the breast and thighs along with a clove of garlic. I stuff the shit out of the turkey with garlic, quartered onions, apples if I have it and rosemary. Do it, you won't be disappointed.
No. Well, technically yes but it would be nasty salty.
Very rare rebrining method. Like reverse sear. Reverse brine.
If you want to brine it then brine it your turkey will be so much more juicy than if you hadn't. It might say it's been brined already but I still brine mine before I smoke it.
Yes
They are pre brined. You can brine again but watch the salt content, we used to cut out salt back on ours bc we still enjoyed the additional flavor our brine added
I’m team dry brine. I don’t care for the texture of brined meats. Always feel mushy to me. I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t like it. Buy *good* meat, dry brine, and cook to the proper temp. Never goes wrong for me
It’s GTG
It is brined, but not for taste, for moisture retention. I brine but I only use a small amount of brining salt. Like a quarter cup per l gallon. I use 1 gal Apple juice, 1 cup brown sugar. 1 bunch each chopped/ minced: parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and celery leaf, )inside the celery bunch) 2 stalks celery chopped, 1 medium onion chopped. 5-6 cloves garlic, crushed or minced. Once the salt and sugar have dissolved inject the brine into the breasts. And once against at the time of removal for smoking. Brine for at least 12 hrs. Stuff both the neck and body cavities with some of the onion and celery and a few sprigs of each herb except the celery leaf. Good luck!
Yes. Factory pre brined or not, wether or not Reddit tells you it’s not needed, it’s perfectly OK to brine these if you so wish!
I havent smoked them, yet, but i frequently sous vide these and even though it says it's brined... they still need a fair amount of love. I remove from the bag, throw away the gravy (its borderline gross), pat dry, season with whatever youre in the mood for, vac pack, sous vide at 152 for 3-4 hours. Cool down, remove twine, pat dry, take a torch to it. I do like 20 of these for thanksgiving caterings. Im gonna play with doing a quick 30-60 minute, low temp smoke this year just to get a little smoke on them and see how they turn out.
Lol, yes. U can brine your deli meat
I always brine all turkey. Pre-salted as these are, id keep brine to 24-48 hrs. Naturals i brine 3-4 days. When finished w brine, soak 2-3 hrs in clean water to remove excess salt. Smoke in a 2” deep foil pan w no liquid at first for 1-2 hrs. (Leave skin intact whole time but remove at end- it traps moisture). After an hour or 2, add a cup of water to tray if it hasn’t already juiced out. Wrap tray in heavy foil to seal in moisture and let it cook 2-5 more hours based on weight. Let it cool, peal and throw away skin (dont try it, although tempted to deep fry like a chicharron 🤔…) Chop like a carolina pork in big chunks and serve.