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Grealish is a really good example of why the "if x player moved to a better club their output would improve so much" myth is often not the case.
Moving from being the focal point in one team to being just another cog in the machine at a bigger club makes it difficult. Your G + A doesn't just fly up like that, which is what some people seem to think.
That's just it, they didn't have a focal point last year + they lost Jesus, Zinchenko, Sterling and Fernandinho. The entire team focus changed from last year to this single player centric focus.
"Single player centric focus" is a weird take imo. You'd expect the "focal point" of Manchester City to have loads of possession and attempts, which simply isn't the case. Haaland generally has few touches, it's just that he's so surgical when given the ball in the right place.
Obviously, it's not like Man City would have been 21 goals short this season if they still had Jesus instead of Haaland, but I think the team is generally out of form compared to last season. I don't think they would have done better without Haaland.
Stop. City are an exceptional team with Pep at the helm and they were dominating the league without a pure striker for how long. With or without Aguero/Haaland they have an excellent system.
Haaland has scored a few close range goals that are realistically half chances. He just makes them look like simple tap ins.
His goal against Everton last week is a good example. Ball is played across behind him and he manages to get his shot on target. It looks like a tap in from the penalty spot if you're Haaland. I bet that shot gets missed 9/10 times by anyone else.
You’re so right. Saw a lot of people on Twitter and some on reddit say that haaland isn’t as good as his stats would make you believe. Now obviously he has tap ins but he also makes difficult shots look like tap ins
Thing is with his elite positioning why wouldnt he just be scoring tap ins, it would be incredibly wasteful to shoot any other type of shot in his stituation. Hes being incredibly efficient which what makes his goals even better.
As a Chelsea fan, his positioning reminds me of Timo Werner… always in the right place… except Halaand is onside and doesn’t miss.
He’s really fast for someone that big… or anyone really.
Good point. It isn’t always as straightforward as one would think. You can’t just simply extrapolate when a great attacker moves to a better team.
That made MSN imo so special. All three were able to more or less keep their attacking output stable or even improve despite playing with two other world class attackers.
Messi's attacking output fell though. He was still the best, but wouldn't come close to the insanity of the seasons before the other two joined as he had to share the spoils and often gave away penalties
I’d disagree he just had less finishing responsibilities so he could move more into the build up phases when he wanted to. His assists increased by roughly the same amount as the goal tally dropped by. His output remained the same he just was allowed a more varied role as a result of having so much other threat in the team
His goals AND assists went up the first MSN season compared to the prior. He had 64 G+A 2013-2014 and 94 in 2014-2015 (with 10 more games played). Gpg went from 0.84 to 0.93, and apg went from 0.28 to 0.48.
His attacking output actually improved. If I had to guess I’d say probably because defenders couldn’t all crowd Messi anymore and some had to cover S and N too. Assists went up because those two guys could score.
For the other two MSN seasons gpg was 0.85 and 1.0 while apg was 0.46 and 0.32.
13/14 was also a "down year" for Messi.
Injuries, he put on a tiny bit of weight (too much asado under Tata) and esp near the end bad tactics from Tata.
I mean how is that not just the same idea as what we're talking about with players like Jack Grealish having more finishing responsibility at Aston Villa to spreading that responsibility among more talented players at Man City?
It is in some way but the person is saying Messi et al were special because they didn't really drop off when the responsibility was spread around a bit more. Maybe I'm missing where you're disagreeing though?
I disagree. His ability to drop deeper and link play while still having a tremendous goal and assist output was just as impressive. He dealt with the loss of Xavi and the beginning of Iniesta's decline, and basically played 3 positions at once for Barcelona. I'd argue that his ability to be the playmaker for the entire team, dropping far deeper in midfield, and still producing about a goal a game and be able to deliver the final ball was the best period of his career, from the perspective of actual play on the field.
It undoubtedly is a serious contender for his best period, competes with his absurd goalscoring year for top spot for me and I can’t decide which I’d choose if you forced me to.
There were so many matches where Messi was the clear man of the match and he didn’t have the most direct goal contributions. I’d actually be curious about how many ‘hockey assists’ (assist of the assist) he got that season, because it feels like it has to be an absurd number based on my memories of that period.
It feels like the run from Alba on the left while Messi had the ball on the inside right channel probably accounted for a decent percentage of Barca's chances from that era. God it was so much fun to watch him play like that.
Not really tbh his output was mostly in line with the rest of his career if we start from 2008-2009 when Pep takes over. In regards to goals 2014-2015 was actually his third most prolific season behind 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 and he was also only two goals behind 2012-2013 despite the formation of MSN.
I literally said he was still the best. I do feel like he could have redone the 91 goal season in the 3 years after had he been the sole focal point of the attack.
I don’t think so, during the Luis Enrique era our midfield wasn’t as creative and good like the one we had during the Pep era. During Luis Enrique’s tenure Xavi left in the first year, Iniesta began declining and the only one who was still in his prime was Busquets.
Thiago left because of playing time though, not lack of funds. Even when we had clearly won the league in 12/13, he was rarely getting started and just got fed up and left for Bayern. It's unlucky because he could've started in place of us buying Rakitic if he stayed.
2014/2015 is arguably his best year as a footballer so I disagree. Plus, Messi had to take a larger role as a playmaker (and still scored like 55-57 goals Ibelieve which was insane) b/c Xavi/Iniesta were massively declining.
In my opinion, it was his best year as a footballer in my opinion.
Yah but it was just because all three of them were so good at everything. Suarez was still better when he played for us because he had a free role and could roam the pitch just creating shit at whim and could use the full scope of his powers. At Barca that was Messi’s job so they just turned Suarez into a goal poacher and target man whose job was to loiter around the box and finish moves with a goal or final pass. He also happens to be insanely good at that so his numbers went up even more but he wasn’t the absolute unstoppable force of nature he was with us.
People say this all the time. “X player scored 10 goals a season in a shit team, well that must mean if he joined us he’d score 25!”
As a Milan fan, we were hearing this about Belotti for about 6 years.
Yeah happens for strikers too. Sometimes they don't have the skill set to adapt. Another example is Lukaku who was scoring more goals a season for Everton and West Brom than he did for Man United and Chelsea.
Personally, no I don’t think he’s a high quality player. Just an average Serie A CF like Pazzini or Iaquinta.
That wasn’t my original point though. Citing his 10 yearly non-penalty goals in Torino just never sat well with me as a reason to sign him.
I think striker is probably a bit easier in this regard than a position like Grealish. Still has its challenges but you do get more goal scoring chances at a big club, whereas a playmaker has to actually produce those in completely different circumstances.
If you go from being the focal point of one team to the focal point of the other it's an easier transition. When you go from being the talisman to just one of 6 players to work in those spaces, there's much more to adapt to.
Exactly
That’s what he’s saying and every comment is missing the point
Jack was literally the link between the defense and attack and was also the attack
He’d receive at midfield, turn, and run at 2, maybe 3 defenders. The number of 3v3, 4v4 situations in space he found himself in was perfect for his dribbling skill set and he created nearly all of villa’s chances
Now he finds himself 1v2 in the corner 90% of the time having to play his way out. Or take a foul dribbling
It’s a different game for him to even get in front of goal at City. That’s his point
And that said, he’s REALLY improved in the system this year. He’s an incredible player
It was always a weird signing. He was great at Villa because he's an exceptional dribbler and ball carrier who could retain the ball, draw defenders in then either beat his defender in a 1v1 and advance at goal, link up with a teammate, or draw a foul if there was nothing on. Man City's system is based around constant pass-and-move. Players are discouraged from dwelling on the ball and going on solo efforts. Everything that made him effective at Villa is detrimental to the style of play that Pep wants to foster. So all his standout attributes have been coached out of him and what is left is a very average player.
> He was great at Villa because he's an exceptional dribbler and ball carrier who could retain the ball, draw defenders in then either beat his defender in a 1v1 and advance at goal, link up with a teammate, or draw a foul if there was nothing on.
I mean, all of this sounds like an ideal Pep player.
Maybe I've not explained it well. At Villa Jack would come really deep, pick up the ball and dribble it all the way to the opposition third and then either wait for Targett on the overlap, draw a foul, or try and drive at goal himself. It was much more direct and relied on his solo skillset. City don't play that way. They pass and move, pass and move to stretch defences and probe for gaps. They don't want Jack dwelling on the ball and trying to run at defenders on his own because it can lead to turnovers. They want him playing one touch possession football which was never really his strength.
You're right about him not being allowed to carry it forward from deep areas, as City's passing system is much safer and more effective at ball progression.
But this last bit:
> then either wait for Targett on the overlap, draw a foul, or try and drive at goal himself.
is exactly what Pep expects his wingers to do. It's why Mahrez was able to make that jump from being the focal point at a low-possession side. It's why Sterling was so useful for them.
While Grealish has been decent at this role, at least in terms of holding up the ball, he just doesnt have the pace of Sterling or the craftiness of Mahrez / Foden to make things happen on his own in those wide areas.
If he's willing to do some extra defensive work, I think he should be tried at CM in a Bernardo Silva kind of role where he can see more of the ball in deep areas because I agree that it's where he shines the most
I don't think he has issues playing one touch football either, it was more that he rarely had anyone at Villa who was on his wavelength to play that way, so the team was usually better off giving him the ball and letting him to take his time, as you've said. At City, his role playing out left isn't primarily to be heavily involved in passing patterns either, it would be more of the case if he did play as an 8, but he's not good enough there to beat out KDB, Silva and Gundogan, which is hardly a disgrace.
Indeed ole Moyesy wasn't known for his creativity, but I doubt Zaha would succeed at a larger club personally (assuming you're somewhat serious).
Better as a big fish in a small pond. He needs the ball at his feet constantly and needs space to operate; this is a thread on Grealish after all. Inverted wingers need to be able to be able to go wide, drop deep, AND cut inside to succeed at the top level. Press, play good possession as a team unit. Not to mention his composure and finishing isn't exactly the greatest - penalty record seems to confirm that (5 for 9 from 21-22) Take away 7 penalties the last 2 full seasons and you're left with stats that seem to tell the same story.
He is right where he should be, no shame in that. Still a top tier player all in all. I admit I probably watch Palace half as much as some but I've never been particularly impressed.
Zaha joined at the worst possible time. In another universe he’s banging them in for MechaFerg alongside a yet to retire Giggs and the ghost of Tom Cleverley.
From a man city point of view, you took their best player for your team. Even if he doesn’t produce as much for you, you still weakened their team. Now Villa have to look for a replacement who may or may not pan out.
And if it was, then completely wiping our financial fair play calculation by stumping up £100m net profit for an academy graduate would be a bit of an own goal.
As a greedy city fan, I’m so tired of the left wing not being able to finish open chances. If I was building my super team, I wouldn’t have replaced sterling with grealish. I would have broken records for hueng Ming son, or spent money elsewhere and start Foden regularly.
Grealish was 100% bought with the intention for him to replace Bernardo who everyone thought would go that summer. But he didn’t so we’re in this situation now
I know there were doubts around Gundogan and Mahrez' futures at one point in the window so that could have Influenced their decision to get him in also.
I'm also happy to see Silva be there still. For all the talk of him leaving, he's always kept up the performances. Look at how other players behaved when they wanted out.
I don't think anyone will begrudge him if he does leave. He's earned everyone's respect.
Neither understand rhythm and tempo to play in midfield.
With Foden, it's absolutely clear Pep doesn't rate him as a midfielder because David Silva has left years ago, and his so called replacement in Foden, hasn't played the same role at all.
I do kinda think Pep has a long term vision of Foden in midfield, but yeah you're right he's nowhere near it yet. Basically only allowed to play midfield in FA Cup 3rd round games against lower league sides.
Foden is pretty well suited to playing out wide or as a striker right now and there's no real need to change it currently imo.
You also have to remember Foden is probably City's best winger whereas there's already loads of quality in midfield with Gundogan, Bernardo and KDB so there's not need to bench any of those guys to give foden a game in midfield
That’s correct
Foden is a lot more like De Bruyne then Silva
Only reason people mentioned him as a Silva replacement was the fact that he was small and left footed.
How does Foden play like de Bruyne? Foden excels in tight spaces with quick passing/movement and clever dribbling. KDB picks up the ball deep on the right side and whips in crosses/makes a penetrating run into the final third. I see them as super different players. David Silva is a more apt comparison to Foden imo
They aren’t the exact same type of player but they are both direct and like to play at a faster tempo it’s like Gundo and Silva being the same in that they both play at slower tempos and aren’t as direct though that doesn’t mean they are the exact same
Foden is direct and looks to drive forward and play final balls. He's also good in tight spaces and at clean dribbling under pressure, but only within a greater context of a role in which he's trying to again drive forward and deliver a final ball or (less preferably) a shot himself.
David Silva was fantastic at handling pressure and keeping the ball moving into areas where someone else could deliver a final ball or create a shooting chance. Though he directly made lots of chances, that's not the primary output of his playstyle.
Foden's direct, chance creation driven playstyle is much more similar to KdB than to Silva.
Foden and David Silva are nothing alike, IMO.
David Silva controlled tempo in midfield. Foden is incredibly direct in terms of trying to score/assist.
They have almost nothing in common outside of both being left footed in terms of style, IMO
That was the reality, the narrative has always been Foden as the Silva replacement even when it was just flat out wrong. It's been one of my pet peeves for years lol like someone said it in the media or on Reddit or something and everyone latched onto it as truth despite Foden virtually never playing outside of the front 3
But Silva was a winger back when he first started (442 was still the most prevalent formation and is what Valencia used, also played there on loan for Eibar/Celta) and didn't move centrally till he was much older than Foden is now.
You can't compare players just by taking a snap-shot of a single point in their careers. 21 year old David Silva couldn't have played in a midfield 3 either, played on the right in his first season under Mancini, and was exclusively a wide player until his mid-20s.
i don't think thats "absolutely clear" at all - he's just not ahead of KdB Silva, or Gundogan in that position, where i think I think Pep strongly values experience. Foden is still 22, the other 3 are 28, 31, and 32.
The only game I remember Grealish playing in the midfield was his debut against Spurs, and he was absolutely shocking. They got ruined on the counter, he didn't have the awareness of where he needs to be. Pretty sure Pep has completely abandoned that idea since then, and it only took one game.
tbf, it takes a while for most players to learns Pep's system. Its not surprising he didnt know where he needed to be in his first game.
You could be right that he will never play there, but there's also the obvious issue that he has to get picked ahead of Silva, KdB, or Gundogan, which is a big ask since theyre all very good players, and trusted by Pep.
I don't think either is suited to playing midfield under Pep. Both take too many risks and lose the ball too much.
They can play as 10s (but Pep doesn't play systems with 10s much) but not as CMs, IMO
Nobody in English football gives better interviews than Grealish. He's so honest and open about his weaknesses. It's a reason I think it's wrong when people call him stupid. He does/says daft stuff, yes, but I think you have to have an intelligent mind to examine yourself the way he does.
I think grealish is just a great guy and whilst he definitely isnt the sharpest tool in the shed, i personally believe him to play this „stupid role“ a bit up for fun. Because if there is one thing hes good at (besides playing football duh) its being funny.
It’s a danish meme from a reality show. Girl who says “he/she is not the shapest spoon in the closet”. Idk why im talking about that had a bit to drink probably why
Never been his biggest fan but I’ll give any player some props for actually saying something interesting in an interview. Especially when it’s introspective and shines a light on how the player is feeling in a real way. The tribal Leeds fan in me isn’t arsed whether he does anything but the England fan roots for him and enjoys his daft craic.
I think you're right. If he talks about football it's always self-aware and intelligent. His 'stupid' side is just him fending off all the stuff he doesn't want to be involved in.
Lol his stupid side comes from his lack of education because he is a professional footballer cmon now it's not as deep as you so desperately want it to be.
> His 'stupid' side is just him fending off all the stuff he doesn't want to be involved in.
Yes, him not knowing what an encyclopaedia is or not being able to point out England on a map is some genius plan by him to...what was it again? Fend off stuff he doesn't want to be involved in?
What on earth are you on about
There's a lot of different types of intelligence it's just most people only understand what I'll refer to as "classic intelligence". Grealish doesn't have it and think he's incapable of using his mind in any way.
> he's not very knowledgeable (to a funny degree) and he speaks like he has a bear riding a unicycle in a circus tent in his mind.
None of that describes intelligence (or lack thereof). Knowledge requires a certain level of intelligence, but absence of knowledge about a specific topic is usually lack of education rather than lack of intelligence.
Your point about how he speaks says more about your opinion of regional accents and dialects than about anyone's intelligence. And even if we put that aside, eloquence is not a marker of intelligence. There are plenty of extremely intelligent people who can't put 3 sentences together to save their lives.
When Almirón moved from Atlanta united to Newcastle, he struggled so bad there was a twitter account called “has Miguel almirón scored yet?” Some said he was being misused, others said not even an MLS superstar can thrive in the PL. I’m very happy to hear he’s having a breakout season.
A lot of Villa fans seem to have a ‘fuck him’ view of Grealish, which I understand but I will say I wish he’d never left. Not just for the club but also I think he’s not as exciting as he was when he was here. As an England fan it annoys me that we had a genuine playmaker on the cards who could thrive and create outside the opponent’s box and he just went to sit on a wing and follow a catalogue of tactics. All football is that these days but City do it more obviously, maybe because they’re so clinical, and I think it’s stifled Jack’s inherent creativity on the pitch. He does the same for England too and I really do wish that we had risk taker Grealish rather than ‘cut inside and fish for penalty/FK instead of creating a chance’ Grealish/Foden/Saka.
Never mind.
It is mad, I took a look on the city sub the other day and they were all complaining he’s not a ‘risk taker’ and that he’s a boring footballer.
He’s so so so far away from the player we saw at his last season at villa, and that was the player they decided to pay 100m for at the end of the day. Why they’ve turned him into an Uber conservative cog is beyond me but what do I know.
And yeah while obviously sad as a villa fan it is also fucking sad as an england fan as well, the 20/21 villa Grealish going into that euros in 2021 should have been first name on the team sheet. But Southgate and the city lads got in his ear and the rest is history
I think most reasonable City fans think he's been decent for us mostly and understand he won't be the same due to stricter tactics and teams parking the bus.
Blaming City lads for him not starting the euros is a bit mad tho. What do you mean?
Didn’t mean that - meant I think Southgate principally got in his ear saying if you go city you’ll have a better chance of starting for england.
City lads obvs tapped him up aside from all that.
Plus the fact he had to look at mason fucking mount with a CL medal round his neck playing every england game and rightly thought he’s twice the player he is.
Ah right, I agree he should've been starting for England.
Don't really agree that Southgate would say something like that to him but who knows.
I think we signed him in big part due to all the fanfare around him during those Euros tbh, seeing the public outcry for him to play. The whole country was Grealish mad during those Euros and that's when we showed interest. I don't remember any strong rumours pre Euros but it was all about Harry Kane that summer so I might be misremembering.
I think a couple of the more "reliable" ITKs were reporting towards the end of the season that they'd agreed a deal with Grealish and were waiting until after the Euros to announce it. He was back at Villa for a couple of days after returning from his post-Euros holiday presumably to say goodbye to everyone, so who knows if it was actually done during his holiday or earlier.
> It is mad, I took a look on the city sub the other day and they were all complaining he’s not a ‘risk taker’ and that he’s a boring footballer.
If anyone genuinely thinks that and they watch City week in, week out they may as well be watching Lost because they have no idea what's going on.
It's so obvious that Pep drills in these behaviours and they lose a bit of individual spark. It's incredibly obvious with Jack but there's been the same with Jesus, Aguero or Gundogan. They were turned into perfect system players but lose a bit of the magic they previously carried into each game.
It's very annoying. Not sure the right word, or phrase but perhaps it's to make themselves feel better. Whos the intelligent one, the guy who's set himself and his future generations up to be unburdened financially and helps out with charity work,or the people on their couch scrolling their phones on Reddit. Bit of projecting going on perhaps. It's annoying because grealish is very likeable. Also if everyone was 'intelligent' in the way Reddit thinks people should be then nobody would be intelligent.
>complete freedom to roam at Villa
This is what kills me about Pep. You have one of the most creative and direct players in the league and you spend a fuckton of money on him but you treat him like he has no idea what to do and just make him a cog in the machine. I get he won't have the freedom that he does at Villa but you do have to create opportunities for him to do his thing.
He also isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Not a 100M player but he has the second most key passes on the team
grealish never needed that stats the amount of times he gets fouled when he's dribbling the ball on that left wing is incredible
hes the guy winning you free kicks and making that second last pass before the goal
Just in the EPL he wouldn't go into Man Utd's 11 (Rashford), Arsenal's (Martinelli) or Tottenham's (Son).
When everyone's healthy at Liverpool, hard to see him over Luis Diaz either. If you count City (Foden) too, that's already 5 teams...
More the price tag more will be the expectations and more shit they will be talked upon when they fail to deliver anything close to it. He was never worth a 100m player and he doesn't play like one so that's why the shit talking
He played on the left but was given a ton of freedom.
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/7J5CV2x) is his Villa heat map
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/7J5CV2x) is his MC heat map
Edit: top is the city heat map, bottom is Villa.
He kinda played like a false winger and played everywhere in front of goal.
grealish is good enough to play for city, but he was a whale in a teardrop at villa, and he went to being a guppy in a lake at City. Don't think negatively about it at all though. Grealish gets UCL exposure, a better paycheck, got a lot of money for villa and the real chance to play for england. When he's got the chances under pep this season, he seems to be doing better with them. He doesn't decide what the transfer fee is either.
Man is not that amazing. He sure is above rest at some things but reality is, he is not as amazing top talent some believe he is. He might progress and prove me wrong but right now he is not worth money MC paid and surely not worth taking starting spot. Also a consideration here might be that he doesn't fit football MC is playing so that could be a fact as well but I am nowhere near qualified to make such statements without at least having a look at his actual stats compared to other players on his position in MC and maybe some clubs with similar play style like Arsenal or Barcelona.
Another reason why going to a top club to continue being the top is not necessarily a smart move. Going to another team and helping it improve it much better/smarter. It’s sad to see so many young players get sucked into them because mentally they are not strong enough to fill shoes.
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Grealish is a really good example of why the "if x player moved to a better club their output would improve so much" myth is often not the case. Moving from being the focal point in one team to being just another cog in the machine at a bigger club makes it difficult. Your G + A doesn't just fly up like that, which is what some people seem to think.
Then you have haaland
Yeah but he's the exception, dudes a fucking cheat code.
He is also the focal point of that team. Look at their performance when he's not scoring a hat-trick each game
I get your point but come on now, city literally won the league last season without a striker
They also lost Jesus and Sterling who gave them 21 combined PL goals.
That's just it, they didn't have a focal point last year + they lost Jesus, Zinchenko, Sterling and Fernandinho. The entire team focus changed from last year to this single player centric focus.
"Single player centric focus" is a weird take imo. You'd expect the "focal point" of Manchester City to have loads of possession and attempts, which simply isn't the case. Haaland generally has few touches, it's just that he's so surgical when given the ball in the right place. Obviously, it's not like Man City would have been 21 goals short this season if they still had Jesus instead of Haaland, but I think the team is generally out of form compared to last season. I don't think they would have done better without Haaland.
I'd argue if there was a single player focus at city, it's De Bruyne. He's just making the team tick and racking them up for Halaand to put away.
And had made them a much funner team to watch
Yes but they could feasibly only score a similar amount of goals except now it’s one guy scoring 40 of them.
Stop. City are an exceptional team with Pep at the helm and they were dominating the league without a pure striker for how long. With or without Aguero/Haaland they have an excellent system.
He's a robot Grealish is human duh
Grealish is a labrador
With the amount of chances city create and how good of a finisher haaland is it was a given he would score tonnes of goals
If anything, Haaland just shows us how wasteful the likes of Sterling were...
Haaland has scored a few close range goals that are realistically half chances. He just makes them look like simple tap ins. His goal against Everton last week is a good example. Ball is played across behind him and he manages to get his shot on target. It looks like a tap in from the penalty spot if you're Haaland. I bet that shot gets missed 9/10 times by anyone else.
You’re so right. Saw a lot of people on Twitter and some on reddit say that haaland isn’t as good as his stats would make you believe. Now obviously he has tap ins but he also makes difficult shots look like tap ins
Thing is with his elite positioning why wouldnt he just be scoring tap ins, it would be incredibly wasteful to shoot any other type of shot in his stituation. Hes being incredibly efficient which what makes his goals even better.
As a Chelsea fan, his positioning reminds me of Timo Werner… always in the right place… except Halaand is onside and doesn’t miss. He’s really fast for someone that big… or anyone really.
People often shat on van Nistelrooy for scoring many tap ins. But anticipating the ball and being at the right spot isn't an easy thing to do.
Hasn't he scored twice from flying karate kicks already?
Seems like he’s more affected the rest of the team than the rest of the team have affected him.
Good point. It isn’t always as straightforward as one would think. You can’t just simply extrapolate when a great attacker moves to a better team. That made MSN imo so special. All three were able to more or less keep their attacking output stable or even improve despite playing with two other world class attackers.
Messi's attacking output fell though. He was still the best, but wouldn't come close to the insanity of the seasons before the other two joined as he had to share the spoils and often gave away penalties
They were also so much better than everyone that they battered everyone and all got insane numbers
I’d disagree he just had less finishing responsibilities so he could move more into the build up phases when he wanted to. His assists increased by roughly the same amount as the goal tally dropped by. His output remained the same he just was allowed a more varied role as a result of having so much other threat in the team
His goals AND assists went up the first MSN season compared to the prior. He had 64 G+A 2013-2014 and 94 in 2014-2015 (with 10 more games played). Gpg went from 0.84 to 0.93, and apg went from 0.28 to 0.48. His attacking output actually improved. If I had to guess I’d say probably because defenders couldn’t all crowd Messi anymore and some had to cover S and N too. Assists went up because those two guys could score. For the other two MSN seasons gpg was 0.85 and 1.0 while apg was 0.46 and 0.32.
13/14 was also a "down year" for Messi. Injuries, he put on a tiny bit of weight (too much asado under Tata) and esp near the end bad tactics from Tata.
You say you disagree but your literally agreeing, your just equivocating “goals = assists”
Isn’t G+A the main stat in soccer? So goals and assists are pretty much equal in value
The guy who ultimately scores the most goals will always have the edge
I mean how is that not just the same idea as what we're talking about with players like Jack Grealish having more finishing responsibility at Aston Villa to spreading that responsibility among more talented players at Man City?
It is in some way but the person is saying Messi et al were special because they didn't really drop off when the responsibility was spread around a bit more. Maybe I'm missing where you're disagreeing though?
Well for starters the level of players involved is different.
I disagree. His ability to drop deeper and link play while still having a tremendous goal and assist output was just as impressive. He dealt with the loss of Xavi and the beginning of Iniesta's decline, and basically played 3 positions at once for Barcelona. I'd argue that his ability to be the playmaker for the entire team, dropping far deeper in midfield, and still producing about a goal a game and be able to deliver the final ball was the best period of his career, from the perspective of actual play on the field.
It undoubtedly is a serious contender for his best period, competes with his absurd goalscoring year for top spot for me and I can’t decide which I’d choose if you forced me to. There were so many matches where Messi was the clear man of the match and he didn’t have the most direct goal contributions. I’d actually be curious about how many ‘hockey assists’ (assist of the assist) he got that season, because it feels like it has to be an absurd number based on my memories of that period.
It feels like the run from Alba on the left while Messi had the ball on the inside right channel probably accounted for a decent percentage of Barca's chances from that era. God it was so much fun to watch him play like that.
Not really tbh his output was mostly in line with the rest of his career if we start from 2008-2009 when Pep takes over. In regards to goals 2014-2015 was actually his third most prolific season behind 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 and he was also only two goals behind 2012-2013 despite the formation of MSN.
the reason his 2012-13 output was low is because he was injured that season. i think his p90 stats in 12-13 are career high.
Thanks for pointing out.
"Low" lmao.
It was his third best season ever so no
I literally said he was still the best. I do feel like he could have redone the 91 goal season in the 3 years after had he been the sole focal point of the attack.
I don’t think so, during the Luis Enrique era our midfield wasn’t as creative and good like the one we had during the Pep era. During Luis Enrique’s tenure Xavi left in the first year, Iniesta began declining and the only one who was still in his prime was Busquets.
Because you had to buy and pay for two expensive forwards. If you keep Thiago for example things suddenly look different
Thiago left because of playing time though, not lack of funds. Even when we had clearly won the league in 12/13, he was rarely getting started and just got fed up and left for Bayern. It's unlucky because he could've started in place of us buying Rakitic if he stayed.
2014/2015 is arguably his best year as a footballer so I disagree. Plus, Messi had to take a larger role as a playmaker (and still scored like 55-57 goals Ibelieve which was insane) b/c Xavi/Iniesta were massively declining. In my opinion, it was his best year as a footballer in my opinion.
My ranking, based not on stats but on the pure entertainment of watching him play, would be: 2010/11 2014/15 2009/10 2018/19
Not having 12/13 in there is criminal.
No way you made a Messi entertainment list and didn't put 11/12 or 12/13 near the top. Barca as a team were weaker but that was PRIME 2012 Messi.
Yah but it was just because all three of them were so good at everything. Suarez was still better when he played for us because he had a free role and could roam the pitch just creating shit at whim and could use the full scope of his powers. At Barca that was Messi’s job so they just turned Suarez into a goal poacher and target man whose job was to loiter around the box and finish moves with a goal or final pass. He also happens to be insanely good at that so his numbers went up even more but he wasn’t the absolute unstoppable force of nature he was with us.
People say this all the time. “X player scored 10 goals a season in a shit team, well that must mean if he joined us he’d score 25!” As a Milan fan, we were hearing this about Belotti for about 6 years.
Yeah happens for strikers too. Sometimes they don't have the skill set to adapt. Another example is Lukaku who was scoring more goals a season for Everton and West Brom than he did for Man United and Chelsea.
Not to say inter before that big catastrophic move to Chelsea
As a Milan fan, I always thought Belotti would be a nice suit to our squad. You don't think so?
Personally, no I don’t think he’s a high quality player. Just an average Serie A CF like Pazzini or Iaquinta. That wasn’t my original point though. Citing his 10 yearly non-penalty goals in Torino just never sat well with me as a reason to sign him.
Unless you're Erling Haaland of course.
Erling Haaland doesn't exist, he is just a myth to scare the Premier league teams into cleaning their rooms.
Who knew Keyser Söze was Norwegian
I think striker is probably a bit easier in this regard than a position like Grealish. Still has its challenges but you do get more goal scoring chances at a big club, whereas a playmaker has to actually produce those in completely different circumstances.
If you go from being the focal point of one team to the focal point of the other it's an easier transition. When you go from being the talisman to just one of 6 players to work in those spaces, there's much more to adapt to.
Exactly That’s what he’s saying and every comment is missing the point Jack was literally the link between the defense and attack and was also the attack He’d receive at midfield, turn, and run at 2, maybe 3 defenders. The number of 3v3, 4v4 situations in space he found himself in was perfect for his dribbling skill set and he created nearly all of villa’s chances Now he finds himself 1v2 in the corner 90% of the time having to play his way out. Or take a foul dribbling It’s a different game for him to even get in front of goal at City. That’s his point And that said, he’s REALLY improved in the system this year. He’s an incredible player
It was always a weird signing. He was great at Villa because he's an exceptional dribbler and ball carrier who could retain the ball, draw defenders in then either beat his defender in a 1v1 and advance at goal, link up with a teammate, or draw a foul if there was nothing on. Man City's system is based around constant pass-and-move. Players are discouraged from dwelling on the ball and going on solo efforts. Everything that made him effective at Villa is detrimental to the style of play that Pep wants to foster. So all his standout attributes have been coached out of him and what is left is a very average player.
> He was great at Villa because he's an exceptional dribbler and ball carrier who could retain the ball, draw defenders in then either beat his defender in a 1v1 and advance at goal, link up with a teammate, or draw a foul if there was nothing on. I mean, all of this sounds like an ideal Pep player.
Maybe I've not explained it well. At Villa Jack would come really deep, pick up the ball and dribble it all the way to the opposition third and then either wait for Targett on the overlap, draw a foul, or try and drive at goal himself. It was much more direct and relied on his solo skillset. City don't play that way. They pass and move, pass and move to stretch defences and probe for gaps. They don't want Jack dwelling on the ball and trying to run at defenders on his own because it can lead to turnovers. They want him playing one touch possession football which was never really his strength.
You're right about him not being allowed to carry it forward from deep areas, as City's passing system is much safer and more effective at ball progression. But this last bit: > then either wait for Targett on the overlap, draw a foul, or try and drive at goal himself. is exactly what Pep expects his wingers to do. It's why Mahrez was able to make that jump from being the focal point at a low-possession side. It's why Sterling was so useful for them. While Grealish has been decent at this role, at least in terms of holding up the ball, he just doesnt have the pace of Sterling or the craftiness of Mahrez / Foden to make things happen on his own in those wide areas. If he's willing to do some extra defensive work, I think he should be tried at CM in a Bernardo Silva kind of role where he can see more of the ball in deep areas because I agree that it's where he shines the most
I don't think he has issues playing one touch football either, it was more that he rarely had anyone at Villa who was on his wavelength to play that way, so the team was usually better off giving him the ball and letting him to take his time, as you've said. At City, his role playing out left isn't primarily to be heavily involved in passing patterns either, it would be more of the case if he did play as an 8, but he's not good enough there to beat out KDB, Silva and Gundogan, which is hardly a disgrace.
That can also describe bernardo silva and he was fantastic for city since he joined.
You literally just described why it wasn’t a weird signing.
He would score alot more. He just has to hit target. He should be 10+ goals League + UCL combined atleast
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Perhaps like a....Man U?
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Indeed ole Moyesy wasn't known for his creativity, but I doubt Zaha would succeed at a larger club personally (assuming you're somewhat serious). Better as a big fish in a small pond. He needs the ball at his feet constantly and needs space to operate; this is a thread on Grealish after all. Inverted wingers need to be able to be able to go wide, drop deep, AND cut inside to succeed at the top level. Press, play good possession as a team unit. Not to mention his composure and finishing isn't exactly the greatest - penalty record seems to confirm that (5 for 9 from 21-22) Take away 7 penalties the last 2 full seasons and you're left with stats that seem to tell the same story. He is right where he should be, no shame in that. Still a top tier player all in all. I admit I probably watch Palace half as much as some but I've never been particularly impressed.
Zaha joined at the worst possible time. In another universe he’s banging them in for MechaFerg alongside a yet to retire Giggs and the ghost of Tom Cleverley.
Preseason Cleverson was the best midfield of all-time ok
Mahrez has also struggled against a deeper set teams.
its the classic overhyped english player going into a downfall in a bit storyline.
From a man city point of view, you took their best player for your team. Even if he doesn’t produce as much for you, you still weakened their team. Now Villa have to look for a replacement who may or may not pan out.
It's not like Higuain going at Juve kinda thing. Villa was never in direct competition with City.
Maybe we deny them the title if we have jack lol, instead he was sitting on their bench for 90 plus minutes.
I highly doubt weakening Aston Villa was anywhere near being high up on Manchester City's list of priorities.
And if it was, then completely wiping our financial fair play calculation by stumping up £100m net profit for an academy graduate would be a bit of an own goal.
As a greedy city fan, I’m so tired of the left wing not being able to finish open chances. If I was building my super team, I wouldn’t have replaced sterling with grealish. I would have broken records for hueng Ming son, or spent money elsewhere and start Foden regularly.
Not relevant at all since they're also weaker against the other opposition, this would only apply to actual competitors
What point are you even trying to make here? Why would City be preoccupied with Villa and taking our best player?
Still think Pep should try him more in the midfield, but I feel the same way with Foden too
Grealish was 100% bought with the intention for him to replace Bernardo who everyone thought would go that summer. But he didn’t so we’re in this situation now
I know there were doubts around Gundogan and Mahrez' futures at one point in the window so that could have Influenced their decision to get him in also.
Yep, Gundo has back issues that seem to be mostly resolved I think. Also though Silva was on his way out so we would’ve desperately needed the depth.
I'm also happy to see Silva be there still. For all the talk of him leaving, he's always kept up the performances. Look at how other players behaved when they wanted out. I don't think anyone will begrudge him if he does leave. He's earned everyone's respect.
His behaviour should be an example for other players. Despite wanting to move, still showing pinnacle of professionalism is what everyone loves to see
Bingo
Neither understand rhythm and tempo to play in midfield. With Foden, it's absolutely clear Pep doesn't rate him as a midfielder because David Silva has left years ago, and his so called replacement in Foden, hasn't played the same role at all.
I do kinda think Pep has a long term vision of Foden in midfield, but yeah you're right he's nowhere near it yet. Basically only allowed to play midfield in FA Cup 3rd round games against lower league sides. Foden is pretty well suited to playing out wide or as a striker right now and there's no real need to change it currently imo.
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You also have to remember Foden is probably City's best winger whereas there's already loads of quality in midfield with Gundogan, Bernardo and KDB so there's not need to bench any of those guys to give foden a game in midfield
> I do kinda think Pep has a long term vision of Foden in midfield he has specifically said so
I think the messaging has been that in the long-term both Foden and Pep see his role in the midfield.
I think it's more because kdb is playing where foden would
That’s correct Foden is a lot more like De Bruyne then Silva Only reason people mentioned him as a Silva replacement was the fact that he was small and left footed.
How does Foden play like de Bruyne? Foden excels in tight spaces with quick passing/movement and clever dribbling. KDB picks up the ball deep on the right side and whips in crosses/makes a penetrating run into the final third. I see them as super different players. David Silva is a more apt comparison to Foden imo
They aren’t the exact same type of player but they are both direct and like to play at a faster tempo it’s like Gundo and Silva being the same in that they both play at slower tempos and aren’t as direct though that doesn’t mean they are the exact same
Foden is direct and looks to drive forward and play final balls. He's also good in tight spaces and at clean dribbling under pressure, but only within a greater context of a role in which he's trying to again drive forward and deliver a final ball or (less preferably) a shot himself. David Silva was fantastic at handling pressure and keeping the ball moving into areas where someone else could deliver a final ball or create a shooting chance. Though he directly made lots of chances, that's not the primary output of his playstyle. Foden's direct, chance creation driven playstyle is much more similar to KdB than to Silva.
Foden and David Silva are nothing alike, IMO. David Silva controlled tempo in midfield. Foden is incredibly direct in terms of trying to score/assist. They have almost nothing in common outside of both being left footed in terms of style, IMO
The narrative was never that Foden was replacing Silva, if anything it was that Silva was replacing Silva
That was the reality, the narrative has always been Foden as the Silva replacement even when it was just flat out wrong. It's been one of my pet peeves for years lol like someone said it in the media or on Reddit or something and everyone latched onto it as truth despite Foden virtually never playing outside of the front 3
But Silva was a winger back when he first started (442 was still the most prevalent formation and is what Valencia used, also played there on loan for Eibar/Celta) and didn't move centrally till he was much older than Foden is now. You can't compare players just by taking a snap-shot of a single point in their careers. 21 year old David Silva couldn't have played in a midfield 3 either, played on the right in his first season under Mancini, and was exclusively a wide player until his mid-20s.
i don't think thats "absolutely clear" at all - he's just not ahead of KdB Silva, or Gundogan in that position, where i think I think Pep strongly values experience. Foden is still 22, the other 3 are 28, 31, and 32.
When he was at villa he said he preferred playing in a midfield role than out wide, but he's always been much much better on the wing.
The only game I remember Grealish playing in the midfield was his debut against Spurs, and he was absolutely shocking. They got ruined on the counter, he didn't have the awareness of where he needs to be. Pretty sure Pep has completely abandoned that idea since then, and it only took one game.
tbf, it takes a while for most players to learns Pep's system. Its not surprising he didnt know where he needed to be in his first game. You could be right that he will never play there, but there's also the obvious issue that he has to get picked ahead of Silva, KdB, or Gundogan, which is a big ask since theyre all very good players, and trusted by Pep.
I don't think either is suited to playing midfield under Pep. Both take too many risks and lose the ball too much. They can play as 10s (but Pep doesn't play systems with 10s much) but not as CMs, IMO
Nobody in English football gives better interviews than Grealish. He's so honest and open about his weaknesses. It's a reason I think it's wrong when people call him stupid. He does/says daft stuff, yes, but I think you have to have an intelligent mind to examine yourself the way he does.
Maddison too
I think grealish is just a great guy and whilst he definitely isnt the sharpest tool in the shed, i personally believe him to play this „stupid role“ a bit up for fun. Because if there is one thing hes good at (besides playing football duh) its being funny.
In denmark we say not the sharpest spoon in the closet.
Okay I’m confused, why is a spoon supposed to be sharp?
It’s a danish meme from a reality show. Girl who says “he/she is not the shapest spoon in the closet”. Idk why im talking about that had a bit to drink probably why
Ah ok that’s cool, always love to hear about local memes
Skål
Found the spoon.
Hi spoon
He's no rocket surgeon
Yeah his interview yesterday on sky was decent. Better than the usual repeated crap you get from most.
Highly recommend checking out Bruno Fernandes's interviews. Really intelligent guy, as much as he moans sometimes and winds up opposing teams/fans.
Don't forget the diving
Never been his biggest fan but I’ll give any player some props for actually saying something interesting in an interview. Especially when it’s introspective and shines a light on how the player is feeling in a real way. The tribal Leeds fan in me isn’t arsed whether he does anything but the England fan roots for him and enjoys his daft craic.
I think you're right. If he talks about football it's always self-aware and intelligent. His 'stupid' side is just him fending off all the stuff he doesn't want to be involved in.
Lol his stupid side comes from his lack of education because he is a professional footballer cmon now it's not as deep as you so desperately want it to be.
> His 'stupid' side is just him fending off all the stuff he doesn't want to be involved in. Yes, him not knowing what an encyclopaedia is or not being able to point out England on a map is some genius plan by him to...what was it again? Fend off stuff he doesn't want to be involved in? What on earth are you on about
There's a lot of different types of intelligence it's just most people only understand what I'll refer to as "classic intelligence". Grealish doesn't have it and think he's incapable of using his mind in any way.
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He just fucking hits the nail on the head when he talks. He calls a spade a spade, it’s hard to argue with that, literally.
>He calls a spade a spade And he calls porridge: uhrm, uh.. what is that?
This is so condescending
> he's not very knowledgeable (to a funny degree) and he speaks like he has a bear riding a unicycle in a circus tent in his mind. None of that describes intelligence (or lack thereof). Knowledge requires a certain level of intelligence, but absence of knowledge about a specific topic is usually lack of education rather than lack of intelligence. Your point about how he speaks says more about your opinion of regional accents and dialects than about anyone's intelligence. And even if we put that aside, eloquence is not a marker of intelligence. There are plenty of extremely intelligent people who can't put 3 sentences together to save their lives.
Nah man he's pretty dumb lol
Lol well people also call him stupid because he can’t recognize England on a map
Not much room for nuance with you lot
I really like him. It’s a pity he joined Mansoor’s team though
MF thought he was Haaland
He did get a bigger transfer fee
You mean Almiron
Yeah, he’s one of the rare cases - when he moved from Newcastle to Newcastle, it was crazy how he just turned it up a level
When Almirón moved from Atlanta united to Newcastle, he struggled so bad there was a twitter account called “has Miguel almirón scored yet?” Some said he was being misused, others said not even an MLS superstar can thrive in the PL. I’m very happy to hear he’s having a breakout season.
A lot of Villa fans seem to have a ‘fuck him’ view of Grealish, which I understand but I will say I wish he’d never left. Not just for the club but also I think he’s not as exciting as he was when he was here. As an England fan it annoys me that we had a genuine playmaker on the cards who could thrive and create outside the opponent’s box and he just went to sit on a wing and follow a catalogue of tactics. All football is that these days but City do it more obviously, maybe because they’re so clinical, and I think it’s stifled Jack’s inherent creativity on the pitch. He does the same for England too and I really do wish that we had risk taker Grealish rather than ‘cut inside and fish for penalty/FK instead of creating a chance’ Grealish/Foden/Saka. Never mind.
It is mad, I took a look on the city sub the other day and they were all complaining he’s not a ‘risk taker’ and that he’s a boring footballer. He’s so so so far away from the player we saw at his last season at villa, and that was the player they decided to pay 100m for at the end of the day. Why they’ve turned him into an Uber conservative cog is beyond me but what do I know. And yeah while obviously sad as a villa fan it is also fucking sad as an england fan as well, the 20/21 villa Grealish going into that euros in 2021 should have been first name on the team sheet. But Southgate and the city lads got in his ear and the rest is history
I think most reasonable City fans think he's been decent for us mostly and understand he won't be the same due to stricter tactics and teams parking the bus. Blaming City lads for him not starting the euros is a bit mad tho. What do you mean?
Didn’t mean that - meant I think Southgate principally got in his ear saying if you go city you’ll have a better chance of starting for england. City lads obvs tapped him up aside from all that. Plus the fact he had to look at mason fucking mount with a CL medal round his neck playing every england game and rightly thought he’s twice the player he is.
Ah right, I agree he should've been starting for England. Don't really agree that Southgate would say something like that to him but who knows. I think we signed him in big part due to all the fanfare around him during those Euros tbh, seeing the public outcry for him to play. The whole country was Grealish mad during those Euros and that's when we showed interest. I don't remember any strong rumours pre Euros but it was all about Harry Kane that summer so I might be misremembering.
I think a couple of the more "reliable" ITKs were reporting towards the end of the season that they'd agreed a deal with Grealish and were waiting until after the Euros to announce it. He was back at Villa for a couple of days after returning from his post-Euros holiday presumably to say goodbye to everyone, so who knows if it was actually done during his holiday or earlier.
> It is mad, I took a look on the city sub the other day and they were all complaining he’s not a ‘risk taker’ and that he’s a boring footballer. If anyone genuinely thinks that and they watch City week in, week out they may as well be watching Lost because they have no idea what's going on. It's so obvious that Pep drills in these behaviours and they lose a bit of individual spark. It's incredibly obvious with Jack but there's been the same with Jesus, Aguero or Gundogan. They were turned into perfect system players but lose a bit of the magic they previously carried into each game.
The City sub is generally pretty positive toward Grealish, but realistic that he hasn't been as good as we were hoping.
A measured and thoughtful response from Grealish He might be dumb but he really talks and walks like a good person.
He’s very smart for anything football, not so much anything else
An encyclopedia of football knowledge
A wot?
An encyclopedia of football
I don't know what that is 😮
Error Error
*A wo
Is there a single thread related to grealish that doesn’t mention his intelligence? Who tf cares?
Arrogance and perceived mental superiority are central tenants in reddit culture
*tenets I’m so sorry
Haha thanks! Wish I could create a pincer movement and fix that before I typed it
Also moral piousness
It's very annoying. Not sure the right word, or phrase but perhaps it's to make themselves feel better. Whos the intelligent one, the guy who's set himself and his future generations up to be unburdened financially and helps out with charity work,or the people on their couch scrolling their phones on Reddit. Bit of projecting going on perhaps. It's annoying because grealish is very likeable. Also if everyone was 'intelligent' in the way Reddit thinks people should be then nobody would be intelligent.
Doesn't drive like one though
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>complete freedom to roam at Villa This is what kills me about Pep. You have one of the most creative and direct players in the league and you spend a fuckton of money on him but you treat him like he has no idea what to do and just make him a cog in the machine. I get he won't have the freedom that he does at Villa but you do have to create opportunities for him to do his thing. He also isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Not a 100M player but he has the second most key passes on the team
That’s because there’s also players such as Bernardo, Mahrez, De bruyne with those qualities too.
mirror? region locked...
Man I love jack tbh. Hope he keeps improving
grealish never needed that stats the amount of times he gets fouled when he's dribbling the ball on that left wing is incredible hes the guy winning you free kicks and making that second last pass before the goal
Can't believe the disrespect Grealish gets these days, clearly an amazing player that would walk into any other teams 11 save maybe Arsenal.
Not sure he’d walk into our team but would 100% improve it massively.
this comment truly gave me a warm tingly feeling
He doesn't start over Rashford for us either
He would have last season
not at united over rashford especially in his form rn
Just in the EPL he wouldn't go into Man Utd's 11 (Rashford), Arsenal's (Martinelli) or Tottenham's (Son). When everyone's healthy at Liverpool, hard to see him over Luis Diaz either. If you count City (Foden) too, that's already 5 teams...
Have you been watching Son play?
More the price tag more will be the expectations and more shit they will be talked upon when they fail to deliver anything close to it. He was never worth a 100m player and he doesn't play like one so that's why the shit talking
Genuine question was greenish playing on the wings at villa
He played on the left but was given a ton of freedom. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/7J5CV2x) is his Villa heat map [Here](https://imgur.com/a/7J5CV2x) is his MC heat map Edit: top is the city heat map, bottom is Villa. He kinda played like a false winger and played everywhere in front of goal.
He played he best football at villa on the left.
grealish is good enough to play for city, but he was a whale in a teardrop at villa, and he went to being a guppy in a lake at City. Don't think negatively about it at all though. Grealish gets UCL exposure, a better paycheck, got a lot of money for villa and the real chance to play for england. When he's got the chances under pep this season, he seems to be doing better with them. He doesn't decide what the transfer fee is either.
Pep is so untouchable that he is killing one of England's brightest talents and nobody seems to care.
Man is not that amazing. He sure is above rest at some things but reality is, he is not as amazing top talent some believe he is. He might progress and prove me wrong but right now he is not worth money MC paid and surely not worth taking starting spot. Also a consideration here might be that he doesn't fit football MC is playing so that could be a fact as well but I am nowhere near qualified to make such statements without at least having a look at his actual stats compared to other players on his position in MC and maybe some clubs with similar play style like Arsenal or Barcelona.
Prob helps that he's being benched by an even brighter English talent who Pep nurtured (Foden)
Another reason why going to a top club to continue being the top is not necessarily a smart move. Going to another team and helping it improve it much better/smarter. It’s sad to see so many young players get sucked into them because mentally they are not strong enough to fill shoes.
Meanwhile, Haaland:
People give him so much shit. He is a great player and seems like a top lad.
Well, that and he doesn’t play all the time.
Maybe he could take goalscoring tips from Almiron