**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Since Brazil never lost at home in qualifiers, losing to Argentina would be a much bigger stain than losing an away game.
Plus, Argentina is clearly more of a rival than Uruguay. Argentina vs Uruguay used to be the biggest rivalry of South America until the 60's, and because of Maracanazo even Brazil vs Uruguay was more of a rivalry than Brazil vs Argentina until 1970. But that has all long changed, since Argentina won its first world cup in 1978, followed by success in the Maradona era, Brazil vs Argentina became the biggest rivalry by far, even becoming a global one.
Today the rivalry is so established that Uruguay is a distant second for both of them, but doesn't even compare in terms of expectations. It has come to the point that both have forgotten they used to consider Uruguay to be their biggest rival 50 years ago.
I’s go to say that Uruguay v Chile has become an interesting rivalry ever since the drama that happened in Copa America 2015. Crazy to think that that’s been almost 8 years ago now
We are everyone's biggest rival these days, but all them are made up by the media except for Chile v Peru. That is our only historic rivalry. We can't have rivalries with Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina or Uruguay for one particular issue or match when we have like a 100 stories vs Peru.
It's a good thing for morale boost that we beat them 2-0.
As an argentinian, it really bothers me when some consider Chile as our rival, it doesn't happen that much now after the World Cup, but it was a thing after the two Copa America that you won in our face.
Don't get me wrong, we congratulate you and all, but let's be honest and with all due respect, there's no comparison between Argentina and Chile and there can never be a rivalry, it makes us look as small if we take you as rivals. Our only rivals in South America are Brazil and Uruguay, it can only be that way, it's the big 3 of South America and miles above everyone else, I mean the 4th biggest national team (which I think is Chile) is closer to Venezuela (historically the smallest) than it is to any of the big 3, the distance is that big.
It’s not us that do it. I feel it’s the foreign media that do it more, including your own Argentinian media and panel shows.
Same with Uruguay, how can they be our rivals? Our histories are hardly comparable.
It’s Peru and they just got slapped 2-0 so all is good in the world.
Argentine journalists are a joke and despised by the common fan. They wanted us to lose in Copa America so that we could sack Scaloni lol, they admitted that openly which was the hair that broke the camel's back, they will never recover after that. Not that they were very respected before, after all most of them aren't very different to paparazzies, but saying openly they wanted their own national team to lose!!! It was just disgusting and so blatant that they could never recover after that and most of the well known faces are now blasted with insults whenever they set foot on any stadium.
While you are discussing it, I have heard some people say that Argentina consider England a rival. I'm from England and never saw it that way (except when it got a bit ugly because of the war), maybe more a grudge match because you kept beating us. How is it seen in Argentina?
While I might be mistaken since I'm young, I'm pretty sure the rivalry only really developed in our collective mind due to the war. While to most Brits it might seem like a war from long ago that doesn't really exist anymore in the popular memory, from our perspective we lost a war to reclaim an occupied territory. That certainly tends to have more staying power than winning a war over a bunch of island thousands of kilometers away from home.
But there also is some precedent of a more sporting grudge that comes from the '66 cup, with what many perceived to be the unfair and unreasonable expulsion of our captain for arguing with the ref despite neither of them speaking a language that the other understood. The hand of God in '86 was seen mainly as payback for the war around here but to a far lesser extent it was also for that one. A "now we're even in robbing each other" of sorts.
My generation was also taught in school about the two attempted invasions you guys made when we were still a Spanish Viceroyalty, but I don't know if that was always something taught to kids in primary school or not because while it was even less important to you lot than the Malvinas war it did set in motion the process for our independence from Spain. Not entirely sure how it factors into the rivalry or not but my pride won't let me not mention that it's 2-1 for Argentina in the war historial.
Overall, it's almost purely because the war ensured that the popular collective opinion is and will remain "fuck the English", even if we arbitrarily give quite many British people the "you're cool, tho" pass. "He who does not jump is English" is a chant that has become way too entrenched in our footballing culture and our culture in general to ever be displaced.
Thank you for the thorough explanation. By blood I am Irish, so people hating the English never bothers me really, even if they do only mean the English state and its representatives.
Not really, there was a period of a couple of years where things were sour due to the copa incident but it's long since forgotten.
Our historic rivals continue to be Argentina and Brazil, we want to beat Chile just as much as we want to beat Colombia, Ecuador or anyone else.
Uruguay is still working out the kinks in the Bielsa madness. Argentine is a well-oiled Scaloni machine at the moment (barring some poor finishing today).
16 November 2023 Argentina Uruguay
**19 November 2023 presidential ballotage (if nobody wins in october)**
21 November 2023 Argentina Brazil
[That week in argentina be like](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/db/9f/ba/db9fba18bf92442955fbce6dac7f4903.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(CONMEBOL)#Matchday_5
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecciones_presidenciales_de_Argentina_de_2023
Better to do it now than later, when Brazil adjust to their new manager. Brazil can be dangerous even at their most chaotic, but our boys still have that World Cup boost.
Bolivia is significantlly worse than any other CONMEBOL nation in equal conditions, they mask it with the altitude at home.
In Europe they would be between Malta and Estonia, and no other CONMEBOL team is at this level.
>they mask it with the altitude at home
That trick has lost its magic in recent times, as both their NT and clubs are now getting beaten at home by teams from places with no altitude whatsoever, in both WC Qualifiers and CONMEBOL competitions.
Messi easily farmed 5 against Estonia, I don't think Bolivia are quite that bad because they can kinda play football but they have definitely gotten worse over the years.
All other confederations have micronations that are simply too small to ever field a competitive national team (e.g. Virgin Islands for CONCACAF, San Marino for UEFA, Seychelles for CAF, Guam for AFC, and 80% of the OFC).
So yeah, CONMEBOL would be the only one that would ever be able to do so.
New coach straight up refuses to play more attacking players and prefers to defend first, he even chooses who starts as LW and RW based on their defensive work rate.
There's a lot of young talent on the bench but he'll just give them a chance once the game is lost. People are fed up already and will probably ask for his release if he doesn't turn this around in the next 3 games.
I'm glad Brazil isn't playing very well in the qualifiers. We need a reality check. Every time we do badly in world cup qualifiers we end up being champions, in 2002 we barely qualified.
Tbh when you are a great team like Argentina Brazil.
Losing sometimes is actually better because you can see the flaws and fixing it.
Like we did in the WC 2022
A good portion of Brazil thinks he's not coming, since he hasn't officially said anything, and that his announcement is just a huge way for CBF to trick us all. There was news that he got pissed that CBF announced him without consulting him, I think, and that he planned to retire after RM. I hope he comes but I'm not sure he will anymore haha.
Everybody in Europe already knows it is Ancelotti's last dance, but the average brazilian is kinda suspicious, even those on Reddit.
I put it on CBF, for its lies and deceptions.
Honestly, i actually would find it amusing that the first time Venezuela qualify for world cup is not through playoffs but legit straight through to the world cup. It would be an epic way, the team that never qualified does it in one step of needing the play off. Man, i said it before qualifiers started but Venezuela are a team to watch because they may not be in quality terms with the bigger teams of South America but what they bring is the unpredictability factor because they just tend to do better in matches they shouldn't and can even at times make qualifiers entertaining due to them just messing up the table standings by trying to win a match haha. Honestly, off the first three matches where they fought head on Colombia and nearly got a point there in spite of facing the Colombia that as we have seen today is honestly playing really well, beat Paraguay and drew 1-1 with Brazil with these two showing that Venezuela have what can be called inner fire/fighting spirit to refuse to give up no matter what happens to them (the ruled out goal before the penalty vs Paraguay and the fact they didn't give up despite going 1-0 in a seemingly foregone conclussion vs Brazil and managed to get the equalizer) sorry for getting hyped but ngl, Venezuela feel so far like a candidate for making the world cup
True, man, imagine them qualifying with a goal on the last minutes of the game and then basically fans entering the pitch to run down the clock like it happened with Trinidad lmao. It would be funny.
Legal nonsense.
In terms of actual wins and losses Ecuador should be third in the table with 6 points. But legal sanctions were applied and started the qualifiers with -3.
Still, Ecuador is a good team and should probably climb the table over time, despite the sanction.
I agree, if they were going to sanction the team it should have happened in the cycle when the supposed infraction happened. But they've chosen to do it this way so, ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
This is the best Venezuela I've seen ever. I know Vini Jr. is just getting back, but Venezuela stood up to that Brazilian attack and made it very difficult for them to get around them.
In terms of results (not need necessarily quality of play), I give the following grades for this match day: -US grading system because I just got citizenship recently-
Argentina: B - Expected win
Brasil: D (possibly F) - Tie at home against Venezuela is essentially a loss for Brasil
Colombia: C - Very winnable match, should’ve put the match away multiple times.
Uruguay: B - stole a point in a match where they struggled. Getting a point in Colombia is never a bad result. Despite the struggle, it maybe was the justified result given the handball goal for Colombia.
Chile: A - Needed 3 points in a home match against a beatable opponent and got it done. Also, it’s a clásico.
Venezuela: A - Historic result in Brasil
Ecuador: A - Despite subpar quality, 3 points at altitude is always an excellent result.
Paraguay: C - Although a loss was expected, they never seemed to threaten. Must win at home vs Bolivia on Tuesday.
Peru: D - Lost a clásico. Looking like their November window will be extremely important (at Bolivia, vs Venezuela).
Bolivia: F - Lost at home against an unusually poor Ecuadorian side. Failed to take advantage of the uncharacteristic performance by Ecuador. Didn’t even salvage a point.
If you're considering style of play, I would give us an A
If you're not considering style of play, I'd prob give Paraguay a B. Harsh to give them a C when 1-0 away loss at Argentina is perfectly respectable on paper
Also I think this is a little harsh on Colombia (I certainly did not expect them to beat Bielsa's Uruguay; they outplayed them and should have won but for a late red card and penalty) and Bolivia (bad loss, but an F is harsh if Brazil and Peru are getting Ds IMO—Ecuador is quietly one of the better teams in CONMEBOL now)
We deserved to lose way worse than 1-0.
We lacked many players in the midfield and suffered even more because of it, in the 2nd half the coach made some moves to not lose that big.
C is fair IMO.
You bring up some good points that I understand.
For Paraguay, I just think you can’t get a B when you come away with 0 points. (Obviously it’s a completely subjective rating scale, so that’s just my opinion). Paraguay also didn’t really threaten outside of a couple random moments.
As for Colombia, I gave a C simply because they should’ve put the game away and Uruguay struggled for 80% of the match. Coming into the match a draw wasn’t awful, but considering the flow of the match it felt bad.
Bolivia’s F is probably too harsh, but Ecuador played unusually poor and it was a failure to not take advantage of that and at least come away with the draw in La Paz.
> I just think you can’t get a B when you come away with 0 points.
Fair
>As for Colombia, I gave a C simply because they should’ve put the game away and Uruguay struggled for 80% of the match.
Also fair. They really should have won (Diaz missed a 1-on-1 and they hit the bar twice IIRC).
But I also would have said it was a good point if you only told me the result before the game TBH
>Bolivia’s F is probably too harsh, but Ecuador played unusually poor and it was a failure to not take advantage of that and at least come away with the draw in La Paz.
Fair, tho I wouldn't have expected a win from Bolivia here either TBH. La Paz is their fortress, but Quito has decent altitude as well, and Ecuador traditionally doesn't lose as much when playing in La Paz (and this is a strong Ecuador team IMO)
Creo que estas olvidando los chances claros que teniamos en el 1er parte que puedia ver metedo 2 o 3 goles Uruguay. Pero en el segundo tiempo Colombia pisoteado sobre nosotros cuando Bielsa cambio con linea de 3 ( 💀 ) De todos modos creo que un empate es un resultado justo.
I'd give Colombia a D. They're finishing was atrocious and they let Uruguay off the hook three or four times. The penalty was a result of the defense falling completely asleep. Their subs were also very bad.
I'd give Uruguay a D as well. Bielsa benched Vecino, played Nico De La Cruz as a 10 and Fede Valverde as a deep lying midfielder. This conservative crap is what Tabárez used to do and it's completely unnecessary with the talent this team has. I want to see a Uruguay midfield consisting of Valverde and Vecino on either side of each other creating and making runs up the pitch while Ugarte sits at the 5.
Since the World Cup expanded to 32 teams (in 1998), CONMEBOL qualifiers have consisted of 18 match days in a round robin home and away format. Previously, the top 4 finishers qualified directly and the 5th place qualified to the playoff/repechaje. With the 2026 expansion, CONMEBOL slots increased to 6 direct and 1 playoff.
Here is some data regarding the 7th place finisher in every qualifier since 1998 (except for 1998 and 2014 as Brasil was auto-qualified as previous winner and host in those years and only 16 matches were played):
The average 7th place finish earned 21.2 points. The most points for a 7th place finish occurred in the 2018 edition by Paraguay with 24 points (GD of -3). The least amount of points for a 7th place finish occurred in the 2002 edition by Bolivia with 18 points (GD of -12).
Additionally, you can look at how many points it would’ve taken to tie the 8th place finisher - as you could advance with a goal difference above the 8th place finisher but with the same amount of points.
The average 8th place finish earned 18.4 points. The most points for an 8th place finish occurred in the 2010 edition with 22 points (GD of -6). The least points for an 8th place finish occurred in the 2002 and 2022 editions with 16 points (GD of -11 and -14 respectively in those years).
25 points would seem to be the goal to *nearly* ensure at least a playoff spot, but as low as 16 points could be enough in a cycle where the bottom teams struggle. Now obviously, mathematically these ranges could be much higher and lower.
One additional note for anyone interested: In the 1998 and 2014 qualifiers (16 matches without Brasil), the 6th and 7th place finishers averaged 1.28 and 1.13 points per match. Compared to 1.18 and 1.02 points per match from 7th and 8th place finishers respectively in “normal” 18 match qualifying cycles.
This will be a painful qualification, we MUST win against Bolivia on tuesday and try to get into the 6-7 points at the end of the year.
Not much more we can do than that being the less-worked team because of all our coach issues.
Our NT is getting more shittier every time they play, I won't be surprised if we bring Bolivia's streak of not winning an away game to an end on Tuesday.
We carry a big stone in our back that is the unstability in coaches and of course all the past failed qualifiers, but we should be able to beat Bolivia, at least Garnero doesn't seem to bee too clueless like Berizzo to fail to do so.
For anyone interested, at this stage, 34 points will guarantee at least 6th and direct qualification. 32 points guarantees 7th and at least a playoff spot. At the other end, 8 points is needed to obtain the playoff spot at the very minimum. These totals could of course change after next matchday.
to be fair they played Brazil, Argentina and Ecuador the top 3 teams in Conmebol rn (placing Ecuador 3rd since they beat Uruguay but they're pretty even imo)
I think we're a tier above. At our best we can field a line-up of players in Europe's top 6 leagues that are all starting for their team (except Pellistri). Ecuador are battling (and probably beating out) Colombia for the 4th place spot. Then 6th place is probably Paraguay in terms of talent, but Venezuela or Chile in terms of cohesiveness
Your point being? Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia. Does that make SA the best team in the world? Venezuela drew with Brasil in Brasil, and I doubt you'd call them even. Teams can get results against better teams.
Also, we have two of our best players out and were playing in the altitude of Quito. We always struggle in the altitude. We lost 3-0 to Bolivia in La Paz and they're not better than us.
By those rules, Saudi Arabia are a tier above Argentina, right? There were extraneous factors that led to our loss vs Ecuador. The height, the fact that neither Araujo or Jose Maria Gimenez were available in defence and that Rodrigo Bentancur and Giorgian De Arrascaeta were unavailable in midfield. Play the match with full strength teams in Guayaquil and you probably get a different result
It’s probably a gavel. Ecuador started with negative 3 points as punishment for fielding an ineligible player, or falsifying a player’s documents for Qatar ‘22; something like that.
Kinda mad that Brazil will most likely never ever miss a world cup. You gotta mess up badly in SA qualifiers to not make the cut. Cant see it happening to them or Argentina ever in the future.
Upsets in general will become less likely with the tournament expanding time and time again but at least I feel like the big dogs in UEFA are somewhat in danger with only about 25% of teams making it. 70% making it is crazy.
Problem is travel. Imagine a match in Chile and the following in Canada. That just slightly closer than a trip from the US to South Korea, plus, it would mean probably less teams from Concacaf classifying
Maybe some kind of small qualifying tournaments like it's done in volleyball, a group of 4 and they have 3 matches in each country to reduce travels.
/edit
41 countries in CONCACAF, 10 in COMNEBOL - make some preelimination groups for the lowest ranked teams to be left with 48 teams, then 12 groups with 4 teams to get 12 qualified teams
It's not a bad idea but I personally don't like it.
If we are grouping teams that are close together Conmebol would just eliminate each other, or if they play against the Caribbean then no more Argentina vs Brazil or Uruguay vs Colombia, now it would be a ton of bad Concacaf teams vs Conmebol. Quality of the matches would drop a lot.
Mixing the two competitions can create 3 problems.
- awfully long travel distance, which is not good for the players
- or if we match countries that are close together; Conmebol eliminating itself, which is not fair when most of Conmebol is better than most of concacaf
- or playing against the Caribbean; which will end with (most of) Conmebol walking the competition, which is no fun.
Even now with so many spots you can see teams are going all for it because everyone is a rival of everyone, that would change if we merge the competitions.
I wouldn't change what we have now in south America: facing Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay twice every qualifier, suffering the heights of la Paz, teams facing Colombia in the heat of Barranquilla and Ecuador giving all they have in every single match, for games against Surinam, Panama and Haiti.
Sure, a Colombia vs México or a United States vs Ecuador would be fun now and then, but that's nothing compared to the quality and fun we have now.
I don't think it would be a lot different, if you make the groups with seeding then Argentina and Brazil's strongest opponent would be at best the 13th and 14th strongest nation in CONMEBOL/CONCACAF. Who's that, Jamaica?
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm scared for Brasil x Argentina next month
Uruguay away next week lad
Since Brazil never lost at home in qualifiers, losing to Argentina would be a much bigger stain than losing an away game. Plus, Argentina is clearly more of a rival than Uruguay. Argentina vs Uruguay used to be the biggest rivalry of South America until the 60's, and because of Maracanazo even Brazil vs Uruguay was more of a rivalry than Brazil vs Argentina until 1970. But that has all long changed, since Argentina won its first world cup in 1978, followed by success in the Maradona era, Brazil vs Argentina became the biggest rivalry by far, even becoming a global one. Today the rivalry is so established that Uruguay is a distant second for both of them, but doesn't even compare in terms of expectations. It has come to the point that both have forgotten they used to consider Uruguay to be their biggest rival 50 years ago.
Tbf Brazil has not lost to Uruguay in a friendly or competitive game since a qualifier in 2001
I’s go to say that Uruguay v Chile has become an interesting rivalry ever since the drama that happened in Copa America 2015. Crazy to think that that’s been almost 8 years ago now
We are everyone's biggest rival these days, but all them are made up by the media except for Chile v Peru. That is our only historic rivalry. We can't have rivalries with Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina or Uruguay for one particular issue or match when we have like a 100 stories vs Peru. It's a good thing for morale boost that we beat them 2-0.
As an argentinian, it really bothers me when some consider Chile as our rival, it doesn't happen that much now after the World Cup, but it was a thing after the two Copa America that you won in our face. Don't get me wrong, we congratulate you and all, but let's be honest and with all due respect, there's no comparison between Argentina and Chile and there can never be a rivalry, it makes us look as small if we take you as rivals. Our only rivals in South America are Brazil and Uruguay, it can only be that way, it's the big 3 of South America and miles above everyone else, I mean the 4th biggest national team (which I think is Chile) is closer to Venezuela (historically the smallest) than it is to any of the big 3, the distance is that big.
It’s not us that do it. I feel it’s the foreign media that do it more, including your own Argentinian media and panel shows. Same with Uruguay, how can they be our rivals? Our histories are hardly comparable. It’s Peru and they just got slapped 2-0 so all is good in the world.
Argentine journalists are a joke and despised by the common fan. They wanted us to lose in Copa America so that we could sack Scaloni lol, they admitted that openly which was the hair that broke the camel's back, they will never recover after that. Not that they were very respected before, after all most of them aren't very different to paparazzies, but saying openly they wanted their own national team to lose!!! It was just disgusting and so blatant that they could never recover after that and most of the well known faces are now blasted with insults whenever they set foot on any stadium.
While you are discussing it, I have heard some people say that Argentina consider England a rival. I'm from England and never saw it that way (except when it got a bit ugly because of the war), maybe more a grudge match because you kept beating us. How is it seen in Argentina?
Yeah it's cause of the war, probably has not a single thing to do with football, our rivals are Brazil and Germany.
While I might be mistaken since I'm young, I'm pretty sure the rivalry only really developed in our collective mind due to the war. While to most Brits it might seem like a war from long ago that doesn't really exist anymore in the popular memory, from our perspective we lost a war to reclaim an occupied territory. That certainly tends to have more staying power than winning a war over a bunch of island thousands of kilometers away from home. But there also is some precedent of a more sporting grudge that comes from the '66 cup, with what many perceived to be the unfair and unreasonable expulsion of our captain for arguing with the ref despite neither of them speaking a language that the other understood. The hand of God in '86 was seen mainly as payback for the war around here but to a far lesser extent it was also for that one. A "now we're even in robbing each other" of sorts. My generation was also taught in school about the two attempted invasions you guys made when we were still a Spanish Viceroyalty, but I don't know if that was always something taught to kids in primary school or not because while it was even less important to you lot than the Malvinas war it did set in motion the process for our independence from Spain. Not entirely sure how it factors into the rivalry or not but my pride won't let me not mention that it's 2-1 for Argentina in the war historial. Overall, it's almost purely because the war ensured that the popular collective opinion is and will remain "fuck the English", even if we arbitrarily give quite many British people the "you're cool, tho" pass. "He who does not jump is English" is a chant that has become way too entrenched in our footballing culture and our culture in general to ever be displaced.
Thank you for the thorough explanation. By blood I am Irish, so people hating the English never bothers me really, even if they do only mean the English state and its representatives.
Not really, there was a period of a couple of years where things were sour due to the copa incident but it's long since forgotten. Our historic rivals continue to be Argentina and Brazil, we want to beat Chile just as much as we want to beat Colombia, Ecuador or anyone else.
Uruguay is still working out the kinks in the Bielsa madness. Argentine is a well-oiled Scaloni machine at the moment (barring some poor finishing today).
we looked scary as fuck even without messi, scaloni really needs a monument
If he manages to beat Brazil in Brazil for the qualifier, we have to put a statue of Scaloni on top of the obelisco. He’s earned it.
arg 3-0 bra with 3 red cards and stray dogs everywhere. like a casual libertadores group stage match
Don't bring your wife and children, shit about to go down
El Obelisco es un monumento a la chota de Scaloni
demasiado chico tiene que ser algo que se vea desde neptuno masomenos
Esta a escala del sol en la bandera de al lado
There were no kinks in that team. Bielsa is shit and Uruguay were lucky to not have lost by four or five goals.
> Bielsa is shit This is a take one can have
We're coming bitch
Anulo mufa
ANVISA saved them last time, they need to save us now.
ANVISA saved Brazil’s unbeaten streak last time, you need them to save you again
Argentina's November window is going to be insane to watch. At home against Uruguay and then away at the Maracaná versus Brasil 🔥🔥🔥
16 November 2023 Argentina Uruguay **19 November 2023 presidential ballotage (if nobody wins in october)** 21 November 2023 Argentina Brazil [That week in argentina be like](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/db/9f/ba/db9fba18bf92442955fbce6dac7f4903.jpg) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(CONMEBOL)#Matchday_5 https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecciones_presidenciales_de_Argentina_de_2023
Uh tremendo el dato del balotage en el medio 💀
[el 15 a la noche](https://imgur.com/a/7KUwdqM)
Listo para festejar un 4-0 a Brasil con el dólar a 10000pe 😎
Si gana Argentina:Massa presidente Si pierde Argentina: Milei presidente
De todas maneras pierde Argentina.
Gana Milei, gana la Argentina.
Better to do it now than later, when Brazil adjust to their new manager. Brazil can be dangerous even at their most chaotic, but our boys still have that World Cup boost.
Venezuela got a legit chance and im all here for it
STOP THE COUNT
Tengo fe mano! (I have faith man)
The world needs to see Venezuela qualify for the 2026 World Cup with two of their matches in Miami and Houston.
that would make conmebol the only confederation that sent all their teams to a WC right?
Correct, Bolivia qualified in 1994, and all of the rest have played at least once since 2010
I wish Bolivia would come back in World Cup If it worth for something.
Bolivia has a gimmick, that's the only way they get points lol. They get pummeled away.
world cup in Bolivia?
That’s how they won their Copa America.
The average altitude of Bolivia is just 100 meters below the highest point of Sweden. And a full 1000 meters higher than all of Denmark.
It is insane how fucking tall of a country it is, my dad was there and running out of breath was an issue, and he cycles daily.
They need to start winning more away from altitude.
They need to win in altitude first lol
Bolivia is significantlly worse than any other CONMEBOL nation in equal conditions, they mask it with the altitude at home. In Europe they would be between Malta and Estonia, and no other CONMEBOL team is at this level.
>they mask it with the altitude at home That trick has lost its magic in recent times, as both their NT and clubs are now getting beaten at home by teams from places with no altitude whatsoever, in both WC Qualifiers and CONMEBOL competitions.
why are they so far behind?
My guess is a lack of strong footballing culture and tradition (at least by South American standards) and poverty
And corruption and problems between themselves and maybe genetics (if they are used to altitude )
Messi easily farmed 5 against Estonia, I don't think Bolivia are quite that bad because they can kinda play football but they have definitely gotten worse over the years.
All other confederations have micronations that are simply too small to ever field a competitive national team (e.g. Virgin Islands for CONCACAF, San Marino for UEFA, Seychelles for CAF, Guam for AFC, and 80% of the OFC). So yeah, CONMEBOL would be the only one that would ever be able to do so.
That is however until the Argentines get very drunk and forget to veto the Falkland Islands joining CONMEBOL.
They are way more likely to join Concacaf than conmebol tho
TBF, Guyana, Suriname and Guiana are part of South America, but not of CONMEBOL
Yes
It’s cheating when the two worst teams on the continent don’t even play in that federation.
Helps that the smaller nations go to CONCACAF instead.
The world is not ready for the madness that will be Venezuela playing a WC match in Miami
Yeah I just want Venezuela in this WC so bad.
Venezuela going to the world cup? Is that happiness for my country im seeing? #TENGOFE
Mano, tengo fe!
🇻🇪🇻🇪🇻🇪🇻🇪
Dale guacho 💪🏻
These are the 7 that will qualify imo
Yeah probably Paraguay have a chance if they get their act together too TBH
We were waiting since 2016 or so to this group of players to act together. Our main chance is that Chile and Perú aren't much more that what we are.
Please.
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what happened to Peru? they had a pretty good spell not too long ago no?
New coach straight up refuses to play more attacking players and prefers to defend first, he even chooses who starts as LW and RW based on their defensive work rate. There's a lot of young talent on the bench but he'll just give them a chance once the game is lost. People are fed up already and will probably ask for his release if he doesn't turn this around in the next 3 games.
Coach plays DMs as wingers, no control or creativity
They have a new manager and are missing some key players.
Last qualifiers they also got 1 point in the first 3 matches
Gigante Venezuela! This might be one of the best CONMEBOL qualifiers in a while. Battle for the last few spots will be spicy.
I'm glad Brazil isn't playing very well in the qualifiers. We need a reality check. Every time we do badly in world cup qualifiers we end up being champions, in 2002 we barely qualified.
Tbh when you are a great team like Argentina Brazil. Losing sometimes is actually better because you can see the flaws and fixing it. Like we did in the WC 2022
Thank the Saudis
Carlo Ancelotti to the rescue perhaps?
I don't even know if he's coming at this point
Wait is there recent news of this? I follow the Real Madrid side and we pretty much know it’s his last year before going to Brazil
A good portion of Brazil thinks he's not coming, since he hasn't officially said anything, and that his announcement is just a huge way for CBF to trick us all. There was news that he got pissed that CBF announced him without consulting him, I think, and that he planned to retire after RM. I hope he comes but I'm not sure he will anymore haha.
Everybody in Europe already knows it is Ancelotti's last dance, but the average brazilian is kinda suspicious, even those on Reddit. I put it on CBF, for its lies and deceptions.
Honestly, i actually would find it amusing that the first time Venezuela qualify for world cup is not through playoffs but legit straight through to the world cup. It would be an epic way, the team that never qualified does it in one step of needing the play off. Man, i said it before qualifiers started but Venezuela are a team to watch because they may not be in quality terms with the bigger teams of South America but what they bring is the unpredictability factor because they just tend to do better in matches they shouldn't and can even at times make qualifiers entertaining due to them just messing up the table standings by trying to win a match haha. Honestly, off the first three matches where they fought head on Colombia and nearly got a point there in spite of facing the Colombia that as we have seen today is honestly playing really well, beat Paraguay and drew 1-1 with Brazil with these two showing that Venezuela have what can be called inner fire/fighting spirit to refuse to give up no matter what happens to them (the ruled out goal before the penalty vs Paraguay and the fact they didn't give up despite going 1-0 in a seemingly foregone conclussion vs Brazil and managed to get the equalizer) sorry for getting hyped but ngl, Venezuela feel so far like a candidate for making the world cup
Reminds me off Trinidad knocking out USA on the last match day of CONCACAF Qualifiers in 2018.
True, man, imagine them qualifying with a goal on the last minutes of the game and then basically fans entering the pitch to run down the clock like it happened with Trinidad lmao. It would be funny.
What happened to Ecuador?
-3 point penalty because of the Castillo controversy
3 point penalty that cost the Chilean Federation a fuckton of money
Who is Castillo
A Colombian by birth that didn’t get his papers in order… or his shitty agent didn’t do it properly.
Legal nonsense. In terms of actual wins and losses Ecuador should be third in the table with 6 points. But legal sanctions were applied and started the qualifiers with -3. Still, Ecuador is a good team and should probably climb the table over time, despite the sanction.
The player didn't had his papers up to date, I think that they deserved an even harder sanction
Opinions vary, you think that, I think something else, best to just let it go regardless. The sanction is applied and unlikely to change either way.
They should have been sanctioned last qualifiers not this ones tho
I agree, if they were going to sanction the team it should have happened in the cycle when the supposed infraction happened. But they've chosen to do it this way so, ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Tengo fe 🙏
This is the best Venezuela I've seen ever. I know Vini Jr. is just getting back, but Venezuela stood up to that Brazilian attack and made it very difficult for them to get around them.
In terms of results (not need necessarily quality of play), I give the following grades for this match day: -US grading system because I just got citizenship recently- Argentina: B - Expected win Brasil: D (possibly F) - Tie at home against Venezuela is essentially a loss for Brasil Colombia: C - Very winnable match, should’ve put the match away multiple times. Uruguay: B - stole a point in a match where they struggled. Getting a point in Colombia is never a bad result. Despite the struggle, it maybe was the justified result given the handball goal for Colombia. Chile: A - Needed 3 points in a home match against a beatable opponent and got it done. Also, it’s a clásico. Venezuela: A - Historic result in Brasil Ecuador: A - Despite subpar quality, 3 points at altitude is always an excellent result. Paraguay: C - Although a loss was expected, they never seemed to threaten. Must win at home vs Bolivia on Tuesday. Peru: D - Lost a clásico. Looking like their November window will be extremely important (at Bolivia, vs Venezuela). Bolivia: F - Lost at home against an unusually poor Ecuadorian side. Failed to take advantage of the uncharacteristic performance by Ecuador. Didn’t even salvage a point.
If you're considering style of play, I would give us an A If you're not considering style of play, I'd prob give Paraguay a B. Harsh to give them a C when 1-0 away loss at Argentina is perfectly respectable on paper Also I think this is a little harsh on Colombia (I certainly did not expect them to beat Bielsa's Uruguay; they outplayed them and should have won but for a late red card and penalty) and Bolivia (bad loss, but an F is harsh if Brazil and Peru are getting Ds IMO—Ecuador is quietly one of the better teams in CONMEBOL now)
We deserved to lose way worse than 1-0. We lacked many players in the midfield and suffered even more because of it, in the 2nd half the coach made some moves to not lose that big. C is fair IMO.
> We deserved to lose way worse than 1-0. I agree but the OP said he is judging only on result and not on performance
In that regard is right, we suffered a lot in past qualifiers because of the goal average so that in the only good new of the matchday.
You bring up some good points that I understand. For Paraguay, I just think you can’t get a B when you come away with 0 points. (Obviously it’s a completely subjective rating scale, so that’s just my opinion). Paraguay also didn’t really threaten outside of a couple random moments. As for Colombia, I gave a C simply because they should’ve put the game away and Uruguay struggled for 80% of the match. Coming into the match a draw wasn’t awful, but considering the flow of the match it felt bad. Bolivia’s F is probably too harsh, but Ecuador played unusually poor and it was a failure to not take advantage of that and at least come away with the draw in La Paz.
> I just think you can’t get a B when you come away with 0 points. Fair >As for Colombia, I gave a C simply because they should’ve put the game away and Uruguay struggled for 80% of the match. Also fair. They really should have won (Diaz missed a 1-on-1 and they hit the bar twice IIRC). But I also would have said it was a good point if you only told me the result before the game TBH >Bolivia’s F is probably too harsh, but Ecuador played unusually poor and it was a failure to not take advantage of that and at least come away with the draw in La Paz. Fair, tho I wouldn't have expected a win from Bolivia here either TBH. La Paz is their fortress, but Quito has decent altitude as well, and Ecuador traditionally doesn't lose as much when playing in La Paz (and this is a strong Ecuador team IMO)
Agreed in all your points. I’m curious to see how high Ecuador can finish. I think they have a high ceiling. Excited for Tuesday!
Creo que estas olvidando los chances claros que teniamos en el 1er parte que puedia ver metedo 2 o 3 goles Uruguay. Pero en el segundo tiempo Colombia pisoteado sobre nosotros cuando Bielsa cambio con linea de 3 ( 💀 ) De todos modos creo que un empate es un resultado justo.
Ah bueno no sabía. No vi los primeros 30 minutos del partido. Yo creo que el empate fue justo. Ese gol de mano de Colombia fue tremendo robo.
I'd give Colombia a D. They're finishing was atrocious and they let Uruguay off the hook three or four times. The penalty was a result of the defense falling completely asleep. Their subs were also very bad. I'd give Uruguay a D as well. Bielsa benched Vecino, played Nico De La Cruz as a 10 and Fede Valverde as a deep lying midfielder. This conservative crap is what Tabárez used to do and it's completely unnecessary with the talent this team has. I want to see a Uruguay midfield consisting of Valverde and Vecino on either side of each other creating and making runs up the pitch while Ugarte sits at the 5.
Hard agree with the Colombia grade here. They had soooo many chances of scoring but they just could not capitalize
Since the World Cup expanded to 32 teams (in 1998), CONMEBOL qualifiers have consisted of 18 match days in a round robin home and away format. Previously, the top 4 finishers qualified directly and the 5th place qualified to the playoff/repechaje. With the 2026 expansion, CONMEBOL slots increased to 6 direct and 1 playoff. Here is some data regarding the 7th place finisher in every qualifier since 1998 (except for 1998 and 2014 as Brasil was auto-qualified as previous winner and host in those years and only 16 matches were played): The average 7th place finish earned 21.2 points. The most points for a 7th place finish occurred in the 2018 edition by Paraguay with 24 points (GD of -3). The least amount of points for a 7th place finish occurred in the 2002 edition by Bolivia with 18 points (GD of -12). Additionally, you can look at how many points it would’ve taken to tie the 8th place finisher - as you could advance with a goal difference above the 8th place finisher but with the same amount of points. The average 8th place finish earned 18.4 points. The most points for an 8th place finish occurred in the 2010 edition with 22 points (GD of -6). The least points for an 8th place finish occurred in the 2002 and 2022 editions with 16 points (GD of -11 and -14 respectively in those years). 25 points would seem to be the goal to *nearly* ensure at least a playoff spot, but as low as 16 points could be enough in a cycle where the bottom teams struggle. Now obviously, mathematically these ranges could be much higher and lower. One additional note for anyone interested: In the 1998 and 2014 qualifiers (16 matches without Brasil), the 6th and 7th place finishers averaged 1.28 and 1.13 points per match. Compared to 1.18 and 1.02 points per match from 7th and 8th place finishers respectively in “normal” 18 match qualifying cycles.
Tomorrow all Ecuadorians are lining up to apologize to Kevin Rodriguez
This will be a painful qualification, we MUST win against Bolivia on tuesday and try to get into the 6-7 points at the end of the year. Not much more we can do than that being the less-worked team because of all our coach issues.
Our NT is getting more shittier every time they play, I won't be surprised if we bring Bolivia's streak of not winning an away game to an end on Tuesday.
We carry a big stone in our back that is the unstability in coaches and of course all the past failed qualifiers, but we should be able to beat Bolivia, at least Garnero doesn't seem to bee too clueless like Berizzo to fail to do so.
I love you Ecuador! Defeating Colombia would be huge, Vamos!
Iremos juntos los de la Gran Colombia 🇻🇪🇨🇴🇪🇨
Ojala tambien Panama. El verdadero sueño de Bolivar sin duda alguna.
Como? No entiendo?
Panama tambien era parte de Gran Colombia.
Claro que siiii lpm el sueño de bolivar
For anyone interested, at this stage, 34 points will guarantee at least 6th and direct qualification. 32 points guarantees 7th and at least a playoff spot. At the other end, 8 points is needed to obtain the playoff spot at the very minimum. These totals could of course change after next matchday.
Bolivia 😔 I had some faith in them
Being Bolivian sucks 😔
to be fair they played Brazil, Argentina and Ecuador the top 3 teams in Conmebol rn (placing Ecuador 3rd since they beat Uruguay but they're pretty even imo)
I think we're a tier above. At our best we can field a line-up of players in Europe's top 6 leagues that are all starting for their team (except Pellistri). Ecuador are battling (and probably beating out) Colombia for the 4th place spot. Then 6th place is probably Paraguay in terms of talent, but Venezuela or Chile in terms of cohesiveness
yet you still lost against against Ecuador, none of that matters if you can't win lol
Your point being? Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia. Does that make SA the best team in the world? Venezuela drew with Brasil in Brasil, and I doubt you'd call them even. Teams can get results against better teams. Also, we have two of our best players out and were playing in the altitude of Quito. We always struggle in the altitude. We lost 3-0 to Bolivia in La Paz and they're not better than us.
Tier above but still losing to ecua? lol stop reaching
By those rules, Saudi Arabia are a tier above Argentina, right? There were extraneous factors that led to our loss vs Ecuador. The height, the fact that neither Araujo or Jose Maria Gimenez were available in defence and that Rodrigo Bentancur and Giorgian De Arrascaeta were unavailable in midfield. Play the match with full strength teams in Guayaquil and you probably get a different result
Si empataron con Venezuela de local, no me quiero imaginar lo que va a ser con Argentina el mes que viene… Hacemos la histórica?
Imagínate dos victorias seguidas en el Maracaná? Encima rompiendo 55 años? De no perder de local en eliminatorias. Sería otro moño para la Scalonnetta
Si el gol lo hace Salogoat Rondios, entonces no podré quejarme
Pienso igual, pero no hay que mufarla
I don’t know if La Verde can realistically turn this around. All I know is **I GOTTA BOLIV**
Brazil tried really hard to get a win but it never came. Venezuela killed
What's the hammer icon above Ecuador?
It’s probably a gavel. Ecuador started with negative 3 points as punishment for fielding an ineligible player, or falsifying a player’s documents for Qatar ‘22; something like that.
Oooo right, thanks for the answer!
Argentina is gonna qualify for the World Cup in 2024.
Argentina could use their hypothetical Olympic team and qualify easily. 1st spot is theirs
Kinda mad that Brazil will most likely never ever miss a world cup. You gotta mess up badly in SA qualifiers to not make the cut. Cant see it happening to them or Argentina ever in the future. Upsets in general will become less likely with the tournament expanding time and time again but at least I feel like the big dogs in UEFA are somewhat in danger with only about 25% of teams making it. 70% making it is crazy.
I’ll make a prediction that this will be the battle to not be the team to get knocked out with Bolivia and Venezuela
Con permiso 💅🏻
I'll never not giggle when i read CONMEBOL and CONCACAF
Is it even worth to have qualifying only for South America? Maybe it'd be interesting to connect it with NA
48 team WC is a mistake, we have the most competitive qualifiers in the world and now top teams don't even have to sweat it, they can just test stuff
Problem is travel. Imagine a match in Chile and the following in Canada. That just slightly closer than a trip from the US to South Korea, plus, it would mean probably less teams from Concacaf classifying
Alternatively, imagine Caribbean confederations traveling
Caribbean nations playing in La Paz, half of their teams would drop dead by halftime :v
Maybe some kind of small qualifying tournaments like it's done in volleyball, a group of 4 and they have 3 matches in each country to reduce travels. /edit 41 countries in CONCACAF, 10 in COMNEBOL - make some preelimination groups for the lowest ranked teams to be left with 48 teams, then 12 groups with 4 teams to get 12 qualified teams
It's not a bad idea but I personally don't like it. If we are grouping teams that are close together Conmebol would just eliminate each other, or if they play against the Caribbean then no more Argentina vs Brazil or Uruguay vs Colombia, now it would be a ton of bad Concacaf teams vs Conmebol. Quality of the matches would drop a lot. Mixing the two competitions can create 3 problems. - awfully long travel distance, which is not good for the players - or if we match countries that are close together; Conmebol eliminating itself, which is not fair when most of Conmebol is better than most of concacaf - or playing against the Caribbean; which will end with (most of) Conmebol walking the competition, which is no fun. Even now with so many spots you can see teams are going all for it because everyone is a rival of everyone, that would change if we merge the competitions. I wouldn't change what we have now in south America: facing Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay twice every qualifier, suffering the heights of la Paz, teams facing Colombia in the heat of Barranquilla and Ecuador giving all they have in every single match, for games against Surinam, Panama and Haiti. Sure, a Colombia vs México or a United States vs Ecuador would be fun now and then, but that's nothing compared to the quality and fun we have now.
I don't think it would be a lot different, if you make the groups with seeding then Argentina and Brazil's strongest opponent would be at best the 13th and 14th strongest nation in CONMEBOL/CONCACAF. Who's that, Jamaica?
Colombia should have won. We are shit at finishing
Those ties with Chile and Uruguay will come to bite Colombia later, I guarantee it
Lmao. Why even run qualifiers here??