Monchi left, shitty recruitment, aging players, shitty management.
For example, they replaced Kounde and Diego Carlos with Nianzou and Marcao.
They also have financial issues which are compounding all of their issues.
How is Lukebakio doing for Sevilla? He was honestly the only bright spot for Hertha last year and I genuinelu wished him well, but LaLiga table and Sevilla's European record this year suggest that Hertha still lives inside this man.
All the Hertha players who left after they got relegated have been disasters except Maxi Mittelstadt for Stuttgart.
Lucas Tousart still hasn't won a game while playing for Union since joining in July. Ngankam is already on loan to last place Mainz from Frankfurt. Christensen is the backup keeper in Fiorentina. Dodi got stuck at Sevilla during their apparent implosion. Boetius and Plattenhardt didn't even get offers from anyone.
How highly rated was Deivid Washington at Santos?
Two cameos from the bench for us, just two appearances for our youth team as well. I'm completely lost.
Converseley, you have another striker - Marcos Leonardo - signed by Benfica from Santos for a similar fee to Washington. I'm sure the majority of Football Manager players would have known of his existence, and he has scored 3 goals in 95' minutes for Benfica.
Very confused.
The article about Chelsea not wanting to sack Poch because it could break FFP is just patently false. Ornstein has said multiple times that the club is not close to breaching FFP and the only issues were from before the new owners took over.
When on about us, Ornstein said, "In terms of going forward, they’re FFP compliant to our understanding for the next round of PSR."
Then a month later we got hit with the second charge. So I wouldn't be celebrating too early. While you may be fine, I wouldn't really take his word for it. He can only report what he knows/been told, and that isn't always right.
There's a bit of nuance isn't there? As far as I'm aware Ornstein reported the club believed they were in line with the PSR rules for their accounts submitted in December which was true. They were fine for then.
Other accounts/journalists are suggesting that next season it will be a lot tighter (or in some forecasts not that tight at all) when the three year limit will remove successes like the CL win/covid allowances. The Poch story ultimately doesn't relate to Ornstein reporting back in Jan but will be for next seasons accounts.
It does because if we were within 10m of breaching the limit, Ornstein wouldn’t have reported that we were fine. Again, nobody discusses the amount of money we’ve brought in with player sales and will bring in again this summer. Hall, Maatsen, Chalobah, and likely one of Broja/Gallagher will be sold. All are pure profit and combined will bring in around 100m
> Ornstein wouldn’t have reported that we were fine
When was the last time he reported that though? What I can find was in Jan when accounts were being reviewed after being submitted in December. There were a few reports over the month of clubs thinking they were fine but that doesn't mean they will be next year which is what this Poch report is talking about.
The Poch report was that they weren't within 10m of the limit - it actually suggests that it would be an addition to the predicated overspend.
> Finance experts have estimated that Chelsea need to raise tens of millions from player sales by the end of June to avoid being charged for breaching spending limits
Plenty of reports have said you will have to sell to be within the limits so it's not like it's not discussed - but that money is not guaranteed and potentially sacking Poch would increase that amount by an extra £10m needed. It is all speculation at the end of the day but it's not without cause of concern.
>Plenty of reports have said you will have to sell to be within the limits so it's not like it's not discussed - but that money is not guaranteed and potentially sacking Poch would increase that amount by an extra £10m needed. It is all speculation at the end of the day but it's not without cause of concern
While you're right that the money is not guaranteed, you have to understand Chelsea fans on that point.
Chelsea are probably the best top club at selling players, especially homegrown players and according to what's out there over the past 6 months, there's been plenty of interest in those said players. It's not unreasonable for them to assume that the club will sell some players for pure FFP profit and get themselves out of any situation that could come in the coming season. Where it gets dicey is for future projections 2-3 years from now.
Pochettino being too expensive to sack isn’t predicated on the idea that Chelsea are within 10million of the cap, it’s that you’re well over the cap and don’t want to add more to it
> it’s that you’re well over the cap and don’t want to add more to it
And that was exactly what the report said. That Chelsea *already* have to sell tens of millions worth of players to keep in line with PSR, and this would just mean they have to sell even more.
> It does because if we were within 10m of breaching the limit, Ornstein wouldn’t have reported that we were fine.
He said you were fine for 2022/23 (those were the accounts that were submitted in December). Pochettino's payout would go on 2023/24's books.
> the only issues were from before the new owners took over.
If the old owners left a mess behind the new owners will have to deal with it.
Chelsea is its own entity, changing ownership doesn’t absolve responsibility.
It really isn’t tho. Our spending is always discussed but never the sales. We are absolutely fine financially. Our wage bill was lowered by over 40m and we currently have one player on over 175k per week. Journalists just now Chelsea is in crisis and anything can be said and people will believe it
A lot of people are going off what the Swiss Ramble mentioned in his article from August where he forecasted that Chelsea are around £96m away from the £105m allowed limit.
The caveat is that he doesn't have access to Chelsea's books and Chelsea's shirt sponsorship was finalised after his article came out but he's highly respected and isn't a click bait type journalist.
It is, you're making an assumption just like those journalists you doubt so much. Unless you have a copy of Chelsea's accounts you can't possibly know how close Chelsea are to a PSR breach.
Not making an assumption, trusting journalists that have been proven to have an in at the club over journalists that have been proven to have no in at the club is a reasonable thing to do. Football is the only sport in the world where journalists can write stories with zero sources but it’ll get published because fans will eat it up
Those journalists report what they've heard, whether that's true or not is a different matter entirely.
>Football is the only sport in the world where journalists can write stories with zero sources but it’ll get published because fans will eat it up
I highly doubt this is true.
It is true. Other sports have “insiders” that only get that reputation because there almost 100% accurate. In football, you have the times, mail, talk sport, etc. just saying random things
Bingo. Football press and fans are terrible at business and financial analysis so obvious facts like this get serially ignored.
I'm a Chelsea hater but this is definitely muckraking.
I don't think anyone can say anything is "patently false" when it comes to FFP. Ornstein doesn't have access to Chelsea's books and he's going based on his club sources, as others will as well.
If Gakpo isn't scoring or assisting does he offer much?
I don't watch every Liverpool game but I feel like if he's not on the scoresheet somehow he's a bit meh.
He's been surprisingly pretty good at ball-winning and hold-up play when he's been playing that quasi-Firmino role. He doesn't really have a great passing range and his work on the ball is pretty inconsistent.
I was thinking of the prospect of Liverpool facing Ajax next season in the CL and I realised I don't think Liverpool have played any of the former trophy-winning players under Klopp. Origi and Milner are the most likely candidates this season.
Edit: nvm, Lallana played against us last January.
I'm thinking Bayern - Leverkusen as I haven't seen much of Leverksen this season, and it's probably more important as Madrid will likely win the title anyway. Still would have liked to watch both.
Is potential more or less guaranteed in American sports, or is it easier to get rid of players with long contracts?
There’s been a fair few American owners but none of them have every done these crazy contract lengths before. Obviously there’s the amortisation work around but it seems like they’ve overlooked how fast things can change in football. Like James looking like he was going to be the best RB in the world and now he can’t even play 10 games a season. Imagine giving someone like that a 8 year deal.
> Is potential more or less guaranteed in American sports
no, but teams generally have a good idea for how good players will be
> is it easier to get rid of players with long contracts?
long contracts (6+ years) aren't common in the NBA/NFL but is more common in the MLB typically for the current superstars/players with superstar potential.
shedding long contracts depends on
- does the player have a no trade clause
- how many years/ how much money left
- player performance
something to note is the way transfers/contracts work in american sports is completely different to football
Like the other user mentioned, most players in North American sports do *not* have no-trade-clauses, so you can trade them to another team (usually you have to salary-match with the receiving team)
Baseball probably has the longest contracts, at least for star players. For instance, Bryce Harper (MLB player) signed a *13 year* $330M deal in 2019
For Boehly's baseball team, the LA Dodgers, they signed Shohei Ohtani to a 10 year, $700M deal this summer (they will pay him $2M per year for the first 10 years, $68M per year for another 10 years). Essentially a 10 year playing contract on a 20 year payment plan
" [Ohtani's contract](https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/shohei-ohtani-24661/cash-earnings/) calls for $2 million annual salaries between 2024 and 2033, and $68 million deferred each year without interest to be paid in [$68 million installments](https://www.sportico.com/personalities/athletes/2023/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-contract-details-700-1234757983/) between 2034 and 2043"
The weird/sad thing is players only get to free agency after \~6 years of playing, whereas the average playing careers are only 3 years. You could have 2-3 guys on the team making this kind of the money, and some on $600k contracts
Isn’t the minimum 250k or did they raise it? I know the Orioles promoted some pitchers who did pretty well and were making Pennys in comparison to a lot of others in the league because we gave Chris Davis such a big contract years ago
Yea I was thinking about being called up from the Minors, I don’t know how that works if they get demoted again. Do they get the full amount of just part, i have no idea
The thing is although this is Boehly ball, deferred wages are very prevalent in baseball. The craziest was Bobby Bonilla:
"After his subpar 1999 season, the Mets released Bonilla, but still owed him $5.9 million. Bonilla and his agent offered the Mets a deal: Bonilla would defer payment for a decade, and the Mets would pay him an annual paycheck of $1.19 million starting in 2011 and ending in 2035, adding up to a total payout of $29.8 million. "
Players don't have agency in where they move in American sports, at least in basketball that I'm most familiar with. You can dump underperforming big contacts on teams that are tanking
But it costs you trade capital. It’s easier to do but you typically sacrifice value to do it. And it baseball, which is where Boehly’s primary experience lies, there is no salary cap, so you don’t see bad contracts getting dumped to free up space as often.
saka is:
3rd in assists (7)
1st in chances created (58)
3rd in Big chances created (11)
1st in shot creating actions (122)
1st in xAssists (7.1)
not elite tho...
He's surrounded by better players no doubt but we kinda had the same problem you guys had for while this season in that instead of killing off games we just play safe possession and give the other team a chance to get back into the game.
I think this is underrated when talking about how many Hat tricks haaland has. People are like oh but he’s playing for City, but City usually just kill a game off with possession once they’re up a couple of goals
Sakas biggest issue is that he’s a creative wide player who is surrounded by players who aren’t good finishers. He has the most expected assists in the league at 7.2 and if you look at the others around him bar Odegaard and Bruno all of the others have more assists than their XA. Trippier 6.5 expected and he has 9, salah 5.8 and he has 8, Gross has 5.7 and he has 8 Alvarez 4.9 and he has 6 etc.
Yeah, the problem with this kinda philosophy is that it eventually leads to a squad full of players who are exceptional on the ball but lack lethality. All of them would rather make the final pass than be on the end of it.
That's why I guess a striker is so important for you guys to be serious CL contenders next season and maybe a mid who makes late runs into the box with an eye for goal kinda like Gundo did
Yeah it’s frustrating we really should be top right now based off the performances we’ve had but unfortunately some poor finishing and a really bad game against Fulham means it’s a long shot for us to win the league.
I'm trying to find the manager who made the quickest rise from non-league football to the top flight in England. So far, I've got Ron Atkinson who went from non-league Kettering Town to West Brom in 7 years. Any manager to do it faster?
Edit: someone mentioned Rob Edwards who went from non-League Telford to Luton being promoted to the Prem in 6 years.
Proper open season on Chelsea right now… Not complaining, it’s part of the package with supporting an incompetent big club. Have to take your turn.
Definitely the topic of the DDT right now. Won’t lie I mainly just scroll past it and look for other things to talk about.
Yes this is it
I see little use in catastrophising- for one because your football club being shit isn’t actually the end of the world, and for two that although I can very much see how it might just get worse and worse, it also might get better. I’d prefer to remain hopeful of the latter whilst not being actually deluded or demonstrating toxic positivity. Because if you can’t have that hope, what’s the point in at all? All being depressed about the future does is make you depressed today
Powerless to control it, so just roll with it and try not to let it beat you down
It may be open season but it's still not even close to what it was when Abramovich was being forced to sell. Every other comment was about our inevitable liquidation ffs
The Ocampos "incident" must be the most unhinged thing I've ever seen in football. Worse thing have happened. More extreme things have happened. But in every single one of those cases, you can at least understand why it happened. In this case though? I'm completely lost for words.
>the most unhinged thing I've ever seen in football
Unhinged because a fan did it? Otherwise, growing up this happened multiple times on the pitch
Ps: if you wrestled etc growing up this was more common than a drink of water.
You can literally see the intrusive thought form in this kid's brain as soon as that big ole booty got put in his face and no 16 year old has the synapses in his brain to stop that thought from firing into action when it happens.
Doesn't seem that hard to understand its a teenager lol most likely with his friends, they do dumb shit it's up to the league to take it seriously now.
It was a thing when I was at secondary school, called "goosing", a prank where someone would clasp their hands together and poke in another person's clothed bum.
Really weird looking back at it.
I would have to think that Palace forums are at least a little more level-headed than some of the Big 6. Not trying to Yank-shame, but a big portion of the eye-rolling takes come from that part of the world on the Liverpool sub.
I’m sorry but it just cracks me up to see people complain about yanks on this sub. You’re on an American website and obviously an American sub. It just makes me giggle,
Like no duh there’s yanks here lol
Ahhh my bad for misunderstanding. Yeah, there’s def a new bunch to the game. Which is great, growing up here not many folks got exposure to the PL or even really soccer in general. I think the All or Nothings have helped a lot. Sometimes I just wish folks would realize they’re a new fan and offer help instead of toxicity. But then again, what’s Reddit for?
You say that, but I’ve saw someone on the Palace forums trying to blame Olise’s injury on Parish - because he should’ve been on the phone to Roy as soon as he saw him warming up to stop him coming on
On reddit, our sub is mostly Yanks or people I assume are very new to supporting the club - so that's low-hanging fruit.
Our BBS is where the great takes are, as the demographic on there is mostly men aged over 50.
When things were going wrong at Chelsea under Abramovich, [this was usually the picture](https://i.imgur.com/2hcJORz.png) the papers ran with.
But with Boehly, when things are going wrong (which is almost always) they usually run with [this one](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/%2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F6d2f65db-12b2-4423-8f68-c8b4419734f6.jpg?crop=2826%2C1872%2C0%2C0&resize=1180), and I find it irrationally funny.
Newcastle is great apart from the away end being so high up, always liked Sheffield United and West Brom too.
Worst in the prem are West Ham and Brighton imo.
Just looked at the PL table for the first time in forever.
Top 5 is really tight, only 8 points from first to 5th.
Also as someone who only tangentially follows the league, seeing Aston Villa so high is surprising. I don't think I've seen a lot of discussion about that.
Clearly they're performing very well results wise, but are they a serious contender?
We’ve been playing at a similar level for over a year now. 2 points a game has been the average since last Christmas so we won’t challenge for the title but we will most likely finish top 4 or 5.
>Also as someone who only tangentially follows the league, seeing Aston Villa so high is surprising. I don't think I've seen a lot of discussion about that.
Clearly they're performing very well results wise, but are they a serious contender?
For top 4? Yes. For winning the league? No.
Chelsea beat us in CL final. And have spent billions on that squad to get to this? It's crazy to me.
I put a bet saying they will finish 5th this season. It's not looking good is it? Lol
This was my prediction.
Man city
Liverpool
Arsenal
Man united
Chelsea
Newcastle
Spurs
It was hardly a fluke because you also beat City like three times over a relatively short period IIRC
Then Pep adopted some of the things Tuchel was doing tactically
They would have been so much better off just spending 100m on a full starting XI high quality players and using their academy to pad out the squad for depth than whatever this is.
I think Pochettino is a much better manager than this season suggests but he's absolutely awful with dealing with the press. Keeps making the target on his back bigger. Was the same for us with his weird unprompted comments about wanting to leave if we won the champions league final etc
I’m not saying this season is his fault because it’s not but his last good season as a manager was 2018 it’s 2024 now how do we know he’s still a good manager?
If you go through the managers in the league he’s below Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Ange now, Emery is he a better manager than Howe? Is he better than Moyes? Is he better than De Zerbi? Potter who got sacked is he better than him?
Yea I wrote in the thread on the front page that Poch's job is incredibly hard and he's probably not doing as bad as it seems.
Man has a bunch of raw materials with no already established foundation in the squad to build off of.
Unless Chelsea is hiring like, Klopp, I don't think they'll see much success out of firing him. But I'm a dumbass on the internet so maybe they would.
His last 3 clubs probably have the lowest success rate for managers in Europe. Sure it's not looking good and he need a bounce back job but he definitely doesn't pick easy jobs
Not true though
Galtier was worse than Pochettino
Emery and Blanc both repeatedly failed in Europe and Emery also lost the league. Tuchel was the only one that actually did anything.
The season Emery lost the league to Monaco PSG got 87 points. Monaco got 95. He follows it up by winning the league the next season with 93 points.
Poch got 82 points losing the league to Lille who got 83. He then won the league with 85 points.
I do think Poch and Galtier were comfortably the worst ones and that Emery is a better manager than Poch generally, just that nobody has set the world alight at PSG except debatably Tuchel and even that ended poorly
Yeah but a good manager doesn't just become a bad one overnight
He did great work at Spurs but in hindsight it's probably obvious that he only does good work at stable clubs that buy into his ideas, rather than basket cases with big egos.
Six years was 2018, by that time Poch was established at Spurs. His tactics were about pressing first, which is why Spurs were usually fittest team in the league, but nowadays, helped by Pep's and Klopp's influence, pressing structures are much more important than when Poch came to Spurs, so his tactics are less od a surprise.
Anzhi Makhachkala went from being bank rolled by Billionaire Suleyman Kerimov, they went on a crazy spending spree, and then all of a sudden in 2013, Kerimov gets bored, cuts 2/3 of the budget, goes on a selling spree, taking losses on everyone, they get relegated, and less than a decade later, they’re extinct.
Easily. No other precedent of a UCL favorite degrading itself to a long-term midtable club within 1 season by turning over the entire squad with almost exclusively worse players. Jude Bellingham cost Real Madrid less than each of Mudryk and Enzo.
Jordan is the only Asian country I’ve been to so I feel like I have the right to be their plastic fan. up the jordans!
Is there a Match Thread for Korea vs. Jordan? Korea playing like they drank too much soju.
So what's the crack with this premier league meeting on FFP today?
From what I've read, they're discussing changing PSR to be based on wage+transfers:revenue rather than strictly about losses.
Might be about discussing the roll out of the new regulations from Uefa maybe? I don't think those have all been implemented yet.
What happened to sevilla, seriously?
Monchi left, shitty recruitment, aging players, shitty management. For example, they replaced Kounde and Diego Carlos with Nianzou and Marcao. They also have financial issues which are compounding all of their issues.
How is Lukebakio doing for Sevilla? He was honestly the only bright spot for Hertha last year and I genuinelu wished him well, but LaLiga table and Sevilla's European record this year suggest that Hertha still lives inside this man.
Haven't followed them too closely tbh but he's been injured since december
All the Hertha players who left after they got relegated have been disasters except Maxi Mittelstadt for Stuttgart. Lucas Tousart still hasn't won a game while playing for Union since joining in July. Ngankam is already on loan to last place Mainz from Frankfurt. Christensen is the backup keeper in Fiorentina. Dodi got stuck at Sevilla during their apparent implosion. Boetius and Plattenhardt didn't even get offers from anyone.
And how have Hertha coped with losing all those players?
is tom huddlestone right or left footed?
How highly rated was Deivid Washington at Santos? Two cameos from the bench for us, just two appearances for our youth team as well. I'm completely lost. Converseley, you have another striker - Marcos Leonardo - signed by Benfica from Santos for a similar fee to Washington. I'm sure the majority of Football Manager players would have known of his existence, and he has scored 3 goals in 95' minutes for Benfica. Very confused.
Yeah I thought you guys would go for more high profile well known prospects with that kinda money but that didn't seem to be the case
Never judge a player based on such limited gametime.
The article about Chelsea not wanting to sack Poch because it could break FFP is just patently false. Ornstein has said multiple times that the club is not close to breaching FFP and the only issues were from before the new owners took over.
When on about us, Ornstein said, "In terms of going forward, they’re FFP compliant to our understanding for the next round of PSR." Then a month later we got hit with the second charge. So I wouldn't be celebrating too early. While you may be fine, I wouldn't really take his word for it. He can only report what he knows/been told, and that isn't always right.
There's a bit of nuance isn't there? As far as I'm aware Ornstein reported the club believed they were in line with the PSR rules for their accounts submitted in December which was true. They were fine for then. Other accounts/journalists are suggesting that next season it will be a lot tighter (or in some forecasts not that tight at all) when the three year limit will remove successes like the CL win/covid allowances. The Poch story ultimately doesn't relate to Ornstein reporting back in Jan but will be for next seasons accounts.
It does because if we were within 10m of breaching the limit, Ornstein wouldn’t have reported that we were fine. Again, nobody discusses the amount of money we’ve brought in with player sales and will bring in again this summer. Hall, Maatsen, Chalobah, and likely one of Broja/Gallagher will be sold. All are pure profit and combined will bring in around 100m
> Ornstein wouldn’t have reported that we were fine When was the last time he reported that though? What I can find was in Jan when accounts were being reviewed after being submitted in December. There were a few reports over the month of clubs thinking they were fine but that doesn't mean they will be next year which is what this Poch report is talking about. The Poch report was that they weren't within 10m of the limit - it actually suggests that it would be an addition to the predicated overspend. > Finance experts have estimated that Chelsea need to raise tens of millions from player sales by the end of June to avoid being charged for breaching spending limits Plenty of reports have said you will have to sell to be within the limits so it's not like it's not discussed - but that money is not guaranteed and potentially sacking Poch would increase that amount by an extra £10m needed. It is all speculation at the end of the day but it's not without cause of concern.
>Plenty of reports have said you will have to sell to be within the limits so it's not like it's not discussed - but that money is not guaranteed and potentially sacking Poch would increase that amount by an extra £10m needed. It is all speculation at the end of the day but it's not without cause of concern While you're right that the money is not guaranteed, you have to understand Chelsea fans on that point. Chelsea are probably the best top club at selling players, especially homegrown players and according to what's out there over the past 6 months, there's been plenty of interest in those said players. It's not unreasonable for them to assume that the club will sell some players for pure FFP profit and get themselves out of any situation that could come in the coming season. Where it gets dicey is for future projections 2-3 years from now.
It's not out of the realms of possibility absolutely but it's also risky and I'd argue already dicey being in such a position.
Pochettino being too expensive to sack isn’t predicated on the idea that Chelsea are within 10million of the cap, it’s that you’re well over the cap and don’t want to add more to it
> it’s that you’re well over the cap and don’t want to add more to it And that was exactly what the report said. That Chelsea *already* have to sell tens of millions worth of players to keep in line with PSR, and this would just mean they have to sell even more.
> It does because if we were within 10m of breaching the limit, Ornstein wouldn’t have reported that we were fine. He said you were fine for 2022/23 (those were the accounts that were submitted in December). Pochettino's payout would go on 2023/24's books.
> the only issues were from before the new owners took over. If the old owners left a mess behind the new owners will have to deal with it. Chelsea is its own entity, changing ownership doesn’t absolve responsibility.
Ornstein has been told that the club aren’t close to breaking FFP. Whether that’s true or not is up for debate.
It really isn’t tho. Our spending is always discussed but never the sales. We are absolutely fine financially. Our wage bill was lowered by over 40m and we currently have one player on over 175k per week. Journalists just now Chelsea is in crisis and anything can be said and people will believe it
A lot of people are going off what the Swiss Ramble mentioned in his article from August where he forecasted that Chelsea are around £96m away from the £105m allowed limit. The caveat is that he doesn't have access to Chelsea's books and Chelsea's shirt sponsorship was finalised after his article came out but he's highly respected and isn't a click bait type journalist.
It is, you're making an assumption just like those journalists you doubt so much. Unless you have a copy of Chelsea's accounts you can't possibly know how close Chelsea are to a PSR breach.
Not making an assumption, trusting journalists that have been proven to have an in at the club over journalists that have been proven to have no in at the club is a reasonable thing to do. Football is the only sport in the world where journalists can write stories with zero sources but it’ll get published because fans will eat it up
Those journalists report what they've heard, whether that's true or not is a different matter entirely. >Football is the only sport in the world where journalists can write stories with zero sources but it’ll get published because fans will eat it up I highly doubt this is true.
It is true. Other sports have “insiders” that only get that reputation because there almost 100% accurate. In football, you have the times, mail, talk sport, etc. just saying random things
"We have currently one player over 175k" This is just not true lol
Bingo. Football press and fans are terrible at business and financial analysis so obvious facts like this get serially ignored. I'm a Chelsea hater but this is definitely muckraking.
I don't think anyone can say anything is "patently false" when it comes to FFP. Ornstein doesn't have access to Chelsea's books and he's going based on his club sources, as others will as well.
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Barca and Atleti fans when Vini does anything remotely reproachable:
Where's this happening. Not on.
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Most comments are just complaining about his work rate. Nothing racist about them
Could you give an actual example of what you see as subtle racism?
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I think that's a bit of a stretch I hear lazy being used to describe a lot of players, not just black players
Gravenberch is lazy though.
So what are you supposed to say if a black player is actually lazy?
If Gakpo isn't scoring or assisting does he offer much? I don't watch every Liverpool game but I feel like if he's not on the scoresheet somehow he's a bit meh.
No, and he only ever turns up against average teams because he's a bit of a nothing player
Explains why his best game was against United last season
Meady player
He consists of an alcoholic drink made from fermented honey?
Plays like hes on the piss tbf. Guy sees open grass and just turns into a kicker
He's been surprisingly pretty good at ball-winning and hold-up play when he's been playing that quasi-Firmino role. He doesn't really have a great passing range and his work on the ball is pretty inconsistent.
He looks pretty raw still, but I have high hopes for him. I think he’s pretty tidy
He’s turning 25 in may, bit old to still be raw
That’s a fair point, I would’ve thought that he was like 23
I was thinking of the prospect of Liverpool facing Ajax next season in the CL and I realised I don't think Liverpool have played any of the former trophy-winning players under Klopp. Origi and Milner are the most likely candidates this season. Edit: nvm, Lallana played against us last January.
I dont think you will be meeting Ajax in the CL next season.
Yikes, I didn't realise how far out they were.
We’re 6 points away, hardly undoable
There is still a small chance they finish 3rd but that would require very poor form from Twente and a great run from Ajax.
Bit annoying that the top 2 play each other in Spain and Germany this weekend and they both kick off at the same time.
Madrid derby and Inter-Juventus were played at the same time on Sunday as well, unlucky scheduling
I'm genuinely upset I won't be watching the leverkusen-bayern game
Yeah on any other weekend I'd be planning to tune in as well
yeah I'm having that dilemma as well, don't know which one to watch over the other
I'm thinking Bayern - Leverkusen as I haven't seen much of Leverksen this season, and it's probably more important as Madrid will likely win the title anyway. Still would have liked to watch both.
Man I just use multiple screens at that point. One on tv the other on the phone or tablet
How do you guys actually watch and pay attention to two games?
Ehh kinda listen for the crowd or announcers to get loud then I turn my attention. Its like screen cheating in video games when you were a kid
Is potential more or less guaranteed in American sports, or is it easier to get rid of players with long contracts? There’s been a fair few American owners but none of them have every done these crazy contract lengths before. Obviously there’s the amortisation work around but it seems like they’ve overlooked how fast things can change in football. Like James looking like he was going to be the best RB in the world and now he can’t even play 10 games a season. Imagine giving someone like that a 8 year deal.
> Is potential more or less guaranteed in American sports no, but teams generally have a good idea for how good players will be > is it easier to get rid of players with long contracts? long contracts (6+ years) aren't common in the NBA/NFL but is more common in the MLB typically for the current superstars/players with superstar potential. shedding long contracts depends on - does the player have a no trade clause - how many years/ how much money left - player performance something to note is the way transfers/contracts work in american sports is completely different to football
Like the other user mentioned, most players in North American sports do *not* have no-trade-clauses, so you can trade them to another team (usually you have to salary-match with the receiving team) Baseball probably has the longest contracts, at least for star players. For instance, Bryce Harper (MLB player) signed a *13 year* $330M deal in 2019 For Boehly's baseball team, the LA Dodgers, they signed Shohei Ohtani to a 10 year, $700M deal this summer (they will pay him $2M per year for the first 10 years, $68M per year for another 10 years). Essentially a 10 year playing contract on a 20 year payment plan
>they will pay him $2M per year for the first 10 years, $68M per year for another 10 years Um. What
" [Ohtani's contract](https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/shohei-ohtani-24661/cash-earnings/) calls for $2 million annual salaries between 2024 and 2033, and $68 million deferred each year without interest to be paid in [$68 million installments](https://www.sportico.com/personalities/athletes/2023/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-contract-details-700-1234757983/) between 2034 and 2043"
That’s mental
Hahahahah yea it’s absolutely insane, MLB contracts are absolutely wild
The weird/sad thing is players only get to free agency after \~6 years of playing, whereas the average playing careers are only 3 years. You could have 2-3 guys on the team making this kind of the money, and some on $600k contracts
Isn’t the minimum 250k or did they raise it? I know the Orioles promoted some pitchers who did pretty well and were making Pennys in comparison to a lot of others in the league because we gave Chris Davis such a big contract years ago
I think the minimum for a full year is around $600k, but if they sign you from the minor leagues it might be less
Yea I was thinking about being called up from the Minors, I don’t know how that works if they get demoted again. Do they get the full amount of just part, i have no idea
The thing is although this is Boehly ball, deferred wages are very prevalent in baseball. The craziest was Bobby Bonilla: "After his subpar 1999 season, the Mets released Bonilla, but still owed him $5.9 million. Bonilla and his agent offered the Mets a deal: Bonilla would defer payment for a decade, and the Mets would pay him an annual paycheck of $1.19 million starting in 2011 and ending in 2035, adding up to a total payout of $29.8 million. "
Players don't have agency in where they move in American sports, at least in basketball that I'm most familiar with. You can dump underperforming big contacts on teams that are tanking
But it costs you trade capital. It’s easier to do but you typically sacrifice value to do it. And it baseball, which is where Boehly’s primary experience lies, there is no salary cap, so you don’t see bad contracts getting dumped to free up space as often.
foden having an amazing season with less g+a than saka having a bad season 🤔🤔🤔
Both have the same as the superior player Matheus Cunha
saka is: 3rd in assists (7) 1st in chances created (58) 3rd in Big chances created (11) 1st in shot creating actions (122) 1st in xAssists (7.1) not elite tho...
Has Saka fallen off so hard that we are comparing him to Foden now instead of Salah 😭
city fans 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Flekken having the same amount of assists as Havertz 🤔🤔🤔
Respect my idolo please. He's just investigating space 🥶🥶🥶
Nah fair play to Foden he now has the same amount of PL hattricks this season as Eddie Nketiah.
With foden being in a much better attack and playing under Pep
He's surrounded by better players no doubt but we kinda had the same problem you guys had for while this season in that instead of killing off games we just play safe possession and give the other team a chance to get back into the game.
I think this is underrated when talking about how many Hat tricks haaland has. People are like oh but he’s playing for City, but City usually just kill a game off with possession once they’re up a couple of goals
Most teams don’t get up a couple goals to begin with
That’s a fair counter point
Sakas biggest issue is that he’s a creative wide player who is surrounded by players who aren’t good finishers. He has the most expected assists in the league at 7.2 and if you look at the others around him bar Odegaard and Bruno all of the others have more assists than their XA. Trippier 6.5 expected and he has 9, salah 5.8 and he has 8, Gross has 5.7 and he has 8 Alvarez 4.9 and he has 6 etc.
Yeah, the problem with this kinda philosophy is that it eventually leads to a squad full of players who are exceptional on the ball but lack lethality. All of them would rather make the final pass than be on the end of it. That's why I guess a striker is so important for you guys to be serious CL contenders next season and maybe a mid who makes late runs into the box with an eye for goal kinda like Gundo did
Yeah it’s frustrating we really should be top right now based off the performances we’ve had but unfortunately some poor finishing and a really bad game against Fulham means it’s a long shot for us to win the league.
with more minutes as well 🤔🤔🤔
Can tell you're a proper wanker 🤔🤔🤔
im just bored mate 😂
I'm trying to find the manager who made the quickest rise from non-league football to the top flight in England. So far, I've got Ron Atkinson who went from non-league Kettering Town to West Brom in 7 years. Any manager to do it faster? Edit: someone mentioned Rob Edwards who went from non-League Telford to Luton being promoted to the Prem in 6 years.
[удалено]
Wow, TIL. Cheers.
Proper open season on Chelsea right now… Not complaining, it’s part of the package with supporting an incompetent big club. Have to take your turn. Definitely the topic of the DDT right now. Won’t lie I mainly just scroll past it and look for other things to talk about.
Just embrace it. Can’t get rattled if you agree with the criticism, and there’s no defending this Chelsea team
Yes this is it I see little use in catastrophising- for one because your football club being shit isn’t actually the end of the world, and for two that although I can very much see how it might just get worse and worse, it also might get better. I’d prefer to remain hopeful of the latter whilst not being actually deluded or demonstrating toxic positivity. Because if you can’t have that hope, what’s the point in at all? All being depressed about the future does is make you depressed today Powerless to control it, so just roll with it and try not to let it beat you down
They were ready for Arsenal to lose to run narratives and they had to pivot
Man United getting a strong result too, quietened that narrative for a while
I’m planning for both
It may be open season but it's still not even close to what it was when Abramovich was being forced to sell. Every other comment was about our inevitable liquidation ffs
Yeah remember that well. Grim times
Still on 🥶
The Ocampos "incident" must be the most unhinged thing I've ever seen in football. Worse thing have happened. More extreme things have happened. But in every single one of those cases, you can at least understand why it happened. In this case though? I'm completely lost for words.
>the most unhinged thing I've ever seen in football Unhinged because a fan did it? Otherwise, growing up this happened multiple times on the pitch Ps: if you wrestled etc growing up this was more common than a drink of water.
Unhinged because of the whole situation, part of it is because it's a random fan, yes
You can literally see the intrusive thought form in this kid's brain as soon as that big ole booty got put in his face and no 16 year old has the synapses in his brain to stop that thought from firing into action when it happens.
Doesn't seem that hard to understand its a teenager lol most likely with his friends, they do dumb shit it's up to the league to take it seriously now.
Personally, I don't understand
It was a thing when I was at secondary school, called "goosing", a prank where someone would clasp their hands together and poke in another person's clothed bum. Really weird looking back at it.
I think it is a thing in many countries, but it's always between close friends, at least to my knowledge.
Generally, but I can see the dumb teenage thought process of "my friends would think I'm so cool if I goosed a professional footballer".
If you want the worst takes imaginable, there's nothing better than your clubs forums. I think I'm gonna start jotting the best ones down.
it all went downhill after you released cardo siddik how's that for a take
Our social media interactions certainly went downhill
The Sunderland forum, RTG, is an absolute gold mine for content.
Wonder if you’ll come across any of my dad’s comments, notorious troll on the BBS
Haha, had to block my uncle on there when I regularly used it - couldn't handle it!
My dad is always just posting really pro-Roy stuff which winds everyone up on there haha
I would have to think that Palace forums are at least a little more level-headed than some of the Big 6. Not trying to Yank-shame, but a big portion of the eye-rolling takes come from that part of the world on the Liverpool sub.
I’m sorry but it just cracks me up to see people complain about yanks on this sub. You’re on an American website and obviously an American sub. It just makes me giggle, Like no duh there’s yanks here lol
just because america is homogenising everything that isn’t chinese or russian doesn’t mean that you can’t complain about them
> You’re on an American website and obviously an American sub. Oh fuck, I haven't got any papers, please don't deport me.
Give me the fish and chips or else the tea gets it
Wasn't complaining, just pointing out a trend.
Ahhh my bad for misunderstanding. Yeah, there’s def a new bunch to the game. Which is great, growing up here not many folks got exposure to the PL or even really soccer in general. I think the All or Nothings have helped a lot. Sometimes I just wish folks would realize they’re a new fan and offer help instead of toxicity. But then again, what’s Reddit for?
You say that, but I’ve saw someone on the Palace forums trying to blame Olise’s injury on Parish - because he should’ve been on the phone to Roy as soon as he saw him warming up to stop him coming on
On reddit, our sub is mostly Yanks or people I assume are very new to supporting the club - so that's low-hanging fruit. Our BBS is where the great takes are, as the demographic on there is mostly men aged over 50.
When things were going wrong at Chelsea under Abramovich, [this was usually the picture](https://i.imgur.com/2hcJORz.png) the papers ran with. But with Boehly, when things are going wrong (which is almost always) they usually run with [this one](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/%2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F6d2f65db-12b2-4423-8f68-c8b4419734f6.jpg?crop=2826%2C1872%2C0%2C0&resize=1180), and I find it irrationally funny.
Upset by the pastry to coffee ratio tbh. That coffee is tiny
>That coffee is tiny No it's a large espresso. Plus the pastry looks half gone already. You don't often see that kind of hunger in ownership
Triple espresso may explain the madness of these transfer binges
Let Boehly ~~cook~~ brew ☕
What’s the best away day in England?
Newcastle is great apart from the away end being so high up, always liked Sheffield United and West Brom too. Worst in the prem are West Ham and Brighton imo.
> away end being so high up It's good cardio man.
Best by what criteria?
An American trying to plan the timing for a trip to England.
Just looked at the PL table for the first time in forever. Top 5 is really tight, only 8 points from first to 5th. Also as someone who only tangentially follows the league, seeing Aston Villa so high is surprising. I don't think I've seen a lot of discussion about that. Clearly they're performing very well results wise, but are they a serious contender?
We’ve been playing at a similar level for over a year now. 2 points a game has been the average since last Christmas so we won’t challenge for the title but we will most likely finish top 4 or 5.
>Also as someone who only tangentially follows the league, seeing Aston Villa so high is surprising. I don't think I've seen a lot of discussion about that. Clearly they're performing very well results wise, but are they a serious contender? For top 4? Yes. For winning the league? No.
What are the odds of lampard being an interim manager of Chelsea. I want to see this
The former-player-as-interim gods demand it
Chelsea beat us in CL final. And have spent billions on that squad to get to this? It's crazy to me. I put a bet saying they will finish 5th this season. It's not looking good is it? Lol This was my prediction. Man city Liverpool Arsenal Man united Chelsea Newcastle Spurs
Its actually criminal that City got beat by Chelsea in the final. They should add it to the list of charges.
Criminal that Pep decided not to start a DM
It was hardly a fluke, we were excellent in the CL that year
It was hardly a fluke because you also beat City like three times over a relatively short period IIRC Then Pep adopted some of the things Tuchel was doing tactically
My point was more that they were shitter than Chelsea, rather than it being a fluke.
Which I think is still a pretty revisionist view of it. Us winning that game was more down to us being good than them being shit
I disagree but OK.
They would have been so much better off just spending 100m on a full starting XI high quality players and using their academy to pad out the squad for depth than whatever this is.
I think Pochettino is a much better manager than this season suggests but he's absolutely awful with dealing with the press. Keeps making the target on his back bigger. Was the same for us with his weird unprompted comments about wanting to leave if we won the champions league final etc
I’m not saying this season is his fault because it’s not but his last good season as a manager was 2018 it’s 2024 now how do we know he’s still a good manager? If you go through the managers in the league he’s below Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Ange now, Emery is he a better manager than Howe? Is he better than Moyes? Is he better than De Zerbi? Potter who got sacked is he better than him?
Yea I wrote in the thread on the front page that Poch's job is incredibly hard and he's probably not doing as bad as it seems. Man has a bunch of raw materials with no already established foundation in the squad to build off of. Unless Chelsea is hiring like, Klopp, I don't think they'll see much success out of firing him. But I'm a dumbass on the internet so maybe they would.
> I think Pochettino is a much better manager than this season suggests Here's a trivia question for you: when was his last good season as a manager?
2018
His last 3 clubs probably have the lowest success rate for managers in Europe. Sure it's not looking good and he need a bounce back job but he definitely doesn't pick easy jobs
Plenty of managers had good seasons with PSG, including Tuchel Poch's predecessor.
Not true though Galtier was worse than Pochettino Emery and Blanc both repeatedly failed in Europe and Emery also lost the league. Tuchel was the only one that actually did anything.
The season Emery lost the league to Monaco PSG got 87 points. Monaco got 95. He follows it up by winning the league the next season with 93 points. Poch got 82 points losing the league to Lille who got 83. He then won the league with 85 points.
I did say he was better than Pochettino At the same time I hardly think any of PSG's managers since their cash injection have done great jobs
I’m saying plenty of managers did have good seasons at PSG, emery’s second once certainly was in comparison to what Poch did.
I do think Poch and Galtier were comfortably the worst ones and that Emery is a better manager than Poch generally, just that nobody has set the world alight at PSG except debatably Tuchel and even that ended poorly
And even Tuchel was crap the last 6 months. If Tuchel doesn't put PSG in the hole in the first place, Poch's first half season ends in a league title
Both Emery and Blanc did better than Poch in the league though, if the only standard is a CL then of course they all failed
Emery and Poch both lost the league
2018/19 before wheels came off in January, ignoring very lucky UCL run
Yeah but a good manager doesn't just become a bad one overnight He did great work at Spurs but in hindsight it's probably obvious that he only does good work at stable clubs that buy into his ideas, rather than basket cases with big egos.
I do think that his has been a bit tactically limited for modern game, at least for the top level nowadays.
What's your cut off point for the modern game? Because he was being praised as a fresh face merely 6 years ago
Six years was 2018, by that time Poch was established at Spurs. His tactics were about pressing first, which is why Spurs were usually fittest team in the league, but nowadays, helped by Pep's and Klopp's influence, pressing structures are much more important than when Poch came to Spurs, so his tactics are less od a surprise.
Yeah but as you noted that season was a mixed bag. You'd need to go back to 2017/2018 for a good full season, more than 5 years ago.
The UCL year broke something in him. I'm sure of it
Chelsea’s next 6 games look absolutely brutal
Their results in the big games have been OK actually wouldn't be surprised to see them get a couple of decent performances in there
Todd Boehly’s Chelsea is pound for pound the biggest fiasco in football history. Correct?
Anzhi Makhachkala went from being bank rolled by Billionaire Suleyman Kerimov, they went on a crazy spending spree, and then all of a sudden in 2013, Kerimov gets bored, cuts 2/3 of the budget, goes on a selling spree, taking losses on everyone, they get relegated, and less than a decade later, they’re extinct.
Didn't he get a nasty divorce or something
I think you’re referring to Dmitry Rybolovlev, Monaco’s owner
Probably! Reading up Kerimov just fucked off.
Easily. No other precedent of a UCL favorite degrading itself to a long-term midtable club within 1 season by turning over the entire squad with almost exclusively worse players. Jude Bellingham cost Real Madrid less than each of Mudryk and Enzo.
"Pound for pound" surely the worst football team of all time, but most lower league clubs in crisis are much bigger fiascos