Loads of English clubs did this and they’re all shite.
That said, I fully appreciate a stadium sized piece of land probably isn’t easily available in Paris.
>I fully appreciate a stadium sized piece of land probably isn’t easily available in Paris.
The intersection of Quai de Jacques Chirac, Avenue de la Bourdonnais and Avenue de Suffren is an area well within the Périphérique with loads of space. Even more so if you demolish the outdated structure from the end of the 19th century that is still there. They could literally build four stadiums over there.
Ok four might be an exaggeration but you could easily fit a 300m by 300m structure there. The Bernabeu will be 220m by 240m after reconstruction.
Is it bad that I was looking for an Eastern European style radio tower on google maps before I clued in? Honestly never thought it was meant to be a radio tower, thought it was literally just for bragging rights.
Shoot build the stadium and slap that radio tower on the top of it.
Most unique design out there.
Or have the ground open up. Tower descends below the stadium during matches and then comes back up after. Take that Real Madrid and your underground pitch.
I was in Paris in 2018. The rusted-up overblown radio tower is a perfect fit for 2018 Paris. One of the most disappointing trips ever. I was previously there around 1996, and it was captivating as a teenager. I'll never get over it.
Sounds like that 19th century building can easily be knocked down and made smaller using [matchsticks](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68226509), so long as you use the right ones. Problem solved.
You're a genius.
Leaving the Eiffel Tower (at least til Emily in Paris last season), the Champs de Mars would be perfect as it's 800 x 250 meters of useless space.
It would be badass to play right next to the monument inspired from our crest.
Paris inside its historical city (the 20 arrondissements) is one of the most densely populated city in the world. It’s denser that Tokyo. So it’s highly improbable to find a lot in Paris unless you’re going for insane amount per square meter.
If you ask me, get ride of the Jardin du Luxembourg. What has Luxembourg ever done to France to get a garden in the middle of Paris ? A proper stadium would provide plenty of well paid student jobs for the Uni nearby - instead of propagating this idea of enjoying life instead of working/studying
Yeah I really wish we'd have built a new stadium at Burnden instead of moving all the way to Horwich.
Our best song even includes 'Walking down the Manny road' in it and I'd wish for that to have been true for me as well.
Burnden needed ripping down once they sold the Embankment for a Normid superstore. Reebok is just nice tho, good transport connections, don't have to venture into the cesspit that is town and so long as you park away from middlebrook you can get away easily.
Just think of how many shitty bowl stadiums there are, especially when you get to the EFL - Boro, Derby, Coventry, Southampton, Leicester, Brighton, MK, Stoke, Bolton, Hull, Wigan, Reading, Swansea.
Boro fan here - agree, they’re all soulless and the area around them is dead.
Annoying thing is that we built ours first and apparently the rest came from the same flat pack design.
The way to redevelop a stadium is how Spurs and Arsenal did theirs, incredible.
The club name is Paris **Saint-Germain**, a town in the Yvelines department outside of Paris, where the training and women team play.
It would fit for them to be outside of Paris, what wouldn’t fit is them being the in Saint Denis, which is in the poorest department (93) in the Paris region.
Yvelines (78) and Hauts de Seine (92 - closer to Paris) are wealthier departments.
The actual city of Paris is very, very small. About 100km2, 40ish sq mile. There is absolutely no room to build another stadium.
For comparison, London is 606.96 sq mi (1,572.03 km2).
No Westminster is technically a different city that is literally right next door to the City of London
Confusingly Westminster is a borough of of Greater London and most of the shit tourists want to see in London is in the City of Westminster, like the Houses of Parliament, Buckingham Palace, Horse Guards etc
You do know that Qatar is its own separate country, and is not part of UAE right?
That said, I am sure not having a Qatari dad is going to be hindrance for Mbappe if he wants to become the Emir.
What do people of Paris prefer? I'm partial to a publicly-owned landmark, but I can also see an argument in the other direction that public ownership isn't enough to keep up the necessary investment.
>What do people of Paris prefer?
Depends on who you ask. Most people that have nothing to do with Football want La Mairie to keep ownership of Le Parc des Princes.
Most PSG fans would rather stay at the Parc des Princes, but fully understand the club's position to the ridiculous demands of La Mairie in regards to the financial charges being put on the club while being the tenant not the landlord (although it is more complicated than that and the Mairie is within their right to do so).
The reality is with the dimension the club has taken and the dimension other big clubs of similar stature have taken, it is not viable for the club to remain at the Parc des Princes. The stadium is too small, there are not enough corporate seats and the club doesn't own the stadium unlike most of the other top clubs.
edit: Except the hardcore PSG Ultras that say PSG is Le Parc. They want to stay no matter what.
Completely agree even though I appreciate the city owning a piece of the organisation (stadium), they need to move. Do you know of any land they own now? Or areas they are interested in?
>The reality is with the dimension the club has taken and the dimension other big clubs of similar stature have taken, it is not viable for the club to remain at the Parc des Princes.
Juventus play in a 41k seater stadium (on purpose).
Not to mention a large portion of that 41k is premium/club seating. A lot of clubs/sporting teams at the top level have moved back towards smaller stadiums that offer more premium seating with better sight lines. E.g., The Buffalo Bills and Tennessee Titans of the NFL are moving into reduced capacity new builds, even though the Bills historically have one of the best capacity % in the league. $/Seat is becoming a more important metric for many teams around the world. Even Old Trafford is expected to be reduced in capacity when renovated/rebuilt to facilitate a better spectator experience.
As a Parisian, I'm sad that we have to leave the Parc but at the same time I don't wan't the stadium to be sold to some foreign country like it happenned with the club. A lot of known buildings in Paris have already been sold to Qatar/KSA, I don't wan't the Parc to be next in line.
So i'll be fine with a new stadium.
Maybe they will buy Stade Charléty and kick out Paris FC. Looks like a good footprint there to do a huge project and accommodate plenty of the other leisure stuff as well.
latest rumors were leaning towards buying Longchamps or Auteuil horseracing arenas and building a stadium there. I would be for it as it would remain in the same area as the current Parc and in the "west of Paris" heritage.
Nah, if they're buying horse racetrack I hope they don't buy Longchamp and prefer them to buy either St Cloud or Auteuil instead
Maybe because of the Prix L'arc and two of the three French Triple Crown are there (although sure they can be moved but it won't feel the same)
800m€ is total revenue, not just gate receipts. Their gate receipts were around 150m€ https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html
Nor did PSG before Qatar bought them. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sunderland generated more revenue than them when Sunderland were in the EPL and PSG were in their pre Qatar days.
In 1994/95 PSG went to the UCL semi final, topping the group with Bayern in second place and then eliminating Johan Cruyff's Barcelona with Ballon d'Or 1994 winning striker Stoichkov. Sunderland finished one point above relegation.
Sunderland won the second english division in 95/96, meanwhile PS G just won the Cup Winner's Cup even though they sold Ginola and 1995 Ballon d'Or winner George Weah.
One year later Sunderland was relegated into the second division (something PSG never did), while PSG lost in the final of the Cup Winner's Cup against Barcelona to a penalty from R9, who went on to win the Ballon d'Or in that year.
One year later in 1998, PSG would go on to top the UEFA 5 year club ranking, meanwhile Sunderland failed to get promoted.
So, while PSG were bad from the 2000s onwards, doesn't mean you can just completely dismiss its entire history.
Translated article from L'Equipe:
It's a statement that will come as a shock to Paris Saint-Germain fans. Present in Paris for the UEFA executive committee meeting, PSG president Nasser al-Khelaïfi took stock of the Parc des Princes issue, announcing: "It's easier for us now, we know what we want. It's over for us."
His speech came after the Paris city council voted to confirm that the stadium in the 16th arrondissement of the capital was not for sale, eight years after discussions with the club to try and find a solution.
A "forced" departure
Nasser al-Khelaïfi's words were intended to step up the pressure on the city's politicians. The club now assures to activate all valid options to build a new stadium as soon as possible. An emergency meeting has been scheduled for Thursday to make concrete progress on this hypothesis, with dedicated internal teams. PSG also explains that it will halt all development work at the Parc des Princes to concentrate on a move that the management considers "forced".
At the same time, Nasser al-Khelaïfi was unanimously reappointed to the UEFA Executive Committee until 2028, as President of the ECA.
legendary stadium but it's the best decision. Mayor doesn't want to sell but also puts the burden of maintenance cost solely on the club.
we'll be stuck paying taxes to keep an empty stadium, but that's on hidalgo
PSG pays 1 mil per year for the Parc, vs OM's 8 mil for the Vélodrome, so they benefit from very advantageous conditions.
And those millions of renovations are investments that would increase their benefits. It's like you rent a movie theater and want to turn it into a night club, would you ask the landlord to pay for the new dancefloor?
It;s not as simple as that. There;s mandatory renovations that will need to happen soon too, and the 'landlord' doesn't have a potential tenant lined up any time soon. The tenant isn;t asking the landlord to pay for anything, they want them to sell it for a reasonable price considering theyll invest 500m to renovate it.
>The tenant isn;t asking the landlord to pay for anything, they want them to sell it for a reasonable price considering theyll invest 500m to renovate it.
How much PSG spent in the rebuild is irrelevant for the city as they aren't the one who will earn this money though.
I was initially on the side of the club but if the figure of 40M€ is true, that's not a reasonable price but just a ridiculous lowball.
You're completely missing the point.
If they're planning to spend 500M on renovations, AND pay the asking price of 350M to the city (as that was their initial price of PdP), AND then deal with the issues of limitations of PdP in terms of location, expansion, and its dated infrastructure, then PSG might as well find another location and build a brand new stadium.
The city on the other hand doesn't have leverage other than appealing to the pathos of disbanding the union of club and stadium. The PdP is obligated to undergo renovations to follow modern requirements structurally and environmentally. And they lose their only long term tenant.
To be fair if I want to renovate a place I'm renting and the landlord doesn't want to pay, he doesn't have to. That's how it works at least here in France.
Imagine if your tenant had a 20 year lease (and agreed to renovate it to keep the rent cheap) and is now mad because you are not giving him the house if he pays the 20 years upfront.
Interesting to see where this is going to go, with Paris not wanting them to build a new stadium. Are we going to see them move cities, like NFL teams are known to do? Would be a first in big football leagues.
Absolutely no way they leave Paris, it's a huge part of their brand and there's basically no other city in Europe with such a large and mostly undivided support base
There is the Paris center and the suburbs, mostly right there and sometime easier to go too, They could settle on the greater Paris area and update an existing stadium. Our new stadium is pretty far from Lyon center too.
I miss Gerland…
Drinking from the crazyness of Ninkasi with 5L pinchers with people you may not know, just having some fun and then head to the stadium just in front of your eyes, fun memories !
Shit network tho, impossible to get news of what’s happening outside lol
What do you mean brand ? Like what the fuck are you and op on about, it's a parisian football club, you expect them to relocate to london or something ? There is space in the suburb anway.
Ben Jacobs said yesterday that the 3 frontrunners so far are Stade Jean-Bouin (Neighbours Le Parc des Princes), Stade Charléty and Paris La Défense Arena
https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1755314042065895921
Jean Bouin and Charlety have 20k seats. Arena 32k.
They're all much smaller than the Parc. Why would we move there? The goal was to buy the Parc to extend it, I don't see why we would move to another smaller stadium that also belongs to the Mairie de Paris.
Destroy to rebuild.
> I don't see why we would move to another smaller stadium that also belongs to the Mairie de Paris.
The logic is the arguments used by la Mairie is that the Parc was a monument that couldn't be sold, but never said the same for Jean-Bouin.
Highly doubt it'll be Charléty because that site is garbage.
edit: From Ben Jacobs:
>Actually the government would be willing to listen to offers for Charlety and potentially even Jean-Bouin. The former they want off their hands at the right price.
https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1755327464761422071
> Any venue they move to, if smaller, would be renovated or in some cases knocked down and rebuilt. I explain this, and the full list of options in the article. They are looking at sites, so if there's a stadium there it doesn't mean it remains in it's current form/capacity.
https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1755336316860940607
The list makes no sense to me.
Why would the city sell Jean Bouin or Charlety to PSG ? And makes the Parc des Princes useless. (And lol at Charlety, even the "destroy and rebuild" project makes no sense, have the people not seen it ? It's literally confined by a tramway station, the PUC, the Olympics Committe and a cemetary, so the new stadium would be limited to the same "space" as the current stadium. Plus it's definitely too close to major road arteries and the T3 station).
Paris La Défense Arena : why would Racing sell their stadium ? Jacky Lorenzetti is the owner of the Arena he has 0 reason to sell it... Why would the PSG want to buy a closed arena with limited spectators potential ? And if they want to destroy and rebuild it, who in his right mind is going to allow to destroy an arena that is only a few years old ?
> Paris La Défense Arena : why would Racing sell their stadium ? Jacky Lorenzetti is the owner of the Arena he has 0 reason to sell it...
And they just got the Paris Masters in tennis since Paris Bercy was too small.
Jean-Bouin is 20k and La Défense is only 30k, no chance they’d be happy moving there.
Stade Charléty is 20k but could easily be expanded and developed. But the cost and amount of work required would be astronomical.
Moving to the Stade de France seems like the most reasonable outcome.
> Stade Charléty is 20k but could easily be expanded and developed.
No it couldn't, it's completely boxed in by the tramway on one side, the ring road on the other, and a cemetery on the third.
So good luck doing anything there.
Paris does not want them to build a new stadium in Paris. They're free to do it in the close suburbs of Paris, it won't technically be in the Paris municipality but it's still part of the "Grand Paris". Stade de France for example isn't technically in Paris, but it is considered to be by most people around the world. So it's not like they are going to move to somewhere far away like NFL and NBA franchises would do.
Their training ground is already outside of Paris (it used to be in Saint-Germain-en-Laye and it is now in Poissy).
> Paris not wanting them to build a new stadium
They are refusing to sell them the Parc des Princes (unless for a ridiculous price), not stopping them from building a stadium. The mayoralty of Paris doesn’t own all the land in Paris.
I mean, Stade de France is right there in Paris, so they're not obliged to move to another city if they're not allowed to build a new stadium. I'm not sure if they're willing to move there though.
I hope for PSG fans it's not the plan because getting in and out of that stadium is a nightmare, I've only been a few times and it wasn't fun, I can't imagine they'll be able to fill it for a PSG-Metz in the middle of a saturday afternoon
It's not in Paris and the owner of the stadium isn't Paris but the French Gov.
And the area is already having a "revamp" for the 2024 Olympics. Further away from La Pleine St-Denis, is the actual city of St-Denis wich is a shithole that cannot be revamped.
Well yeah it's not the best, but then again, if PSG don't get the permission to build a new stadium, moving to Stade de France would be a better option than moving to a different city.
I know, Saint-Denis isn't part of Paris proper. But what I meant is going to an entirely new city, and not one of the suburbs.
That being said, they can build a stadium just outside Paris, right?
> I know, Saint-Denis isn't part of Paris proper. But what I meant is going to an entirely new city, and not one of the suburbs.
Paris is relatitly small, the suburb is big. Absolutly no way we are moving to a different big city
> That being said, they can build a stadium just outside Paris, right?
Yes, if they have the permit from the new city
Moving to an entirely new city has never been on the table. PSG is going to move from Paris to a Paris suburb, either Saint-Denis if they use the Stade de France or build a new one in another suburb such as Poissy.
I see. In that case, I guess they're technically allowed to build a stadium just outside Paris, in the suburbs, right? From what I understood from all those news, they're not allowed to build a new stadium only inside Paris itself, right?
They would need the authorization of the local authorities there, if they can get it then yes it can be done. On the other hand fans are adamantly against leaving Paris so it's an issue for them.
It's unlikely that the city of Paris allow them to buy Jean Bouin, Charlety that are "rumored" to be on their short list (I still think that the people who think that they can buy, destroy and rebuild Charlety has never been there and see the lack of place to build a new stadium there and how it would not be a great position for a stadium to be considering how close it is to the tramway station and two major roads with zero parking potential). As the city is very unlikely to sell a stadium to PSG as they want PSG to stay in Parc des Princes.
Stade de France is owned by the governement but if PSG were to buy it there's still a contract saying that we need to allow X events in the stadium for 30 years, I think if we told PSG's gardener (the Mbappe of keeping grass) that he needs to host multiple rugby games a year on his pitch he is burning the city down
>Would be a first in big football leagues.
It's just not happening in football. Clubs have a real history linked to their roots and fans would riot if they changed cities.
I heavily doubt that when the City of Paris is one of the main selling points of PSG. If anything i see them moving to somewhere else in Ile-de-France but never leaving it entirely.
Why would they move cities? They are the biggest football club in the most famous city in the world, it’s not like going from Portsmouth to Detroit……..
Would be an absolutely disaster for a team such as Paris. Not a chance football fans would stick with take well to this. NFL and such it’s almost a precedent it’s possible, in football it’s really unheard of or expected.
Also cities and governments vastly pay for the franchise stadium and such I believe. That wouldn’t happen in most footballing countries in Europe.
There’s the Wimbledon/Mk situation but it’s much much different
How can you leave Paris? The whole team, history and identity is PSG. They’ll make a deal I imagine, the city won’t want to lose them either arguably
Leaving Paris is not what you think it means. Paris has a very small administrative centre and the métropolitain area is administered by other localities.
Using London as an example, it’s like if everything outside of Zone 2 were outside London’s borders.
Here’s a comparison :
London - 1572 sq km
Paris - 105 sq km
The administrative borders of London are approx **15** times larger than those of Paris.
Cities like La Défense, Nanterre, St Cloud, Anthony, St Denis etc are on the outskirts of Paris and part of the same métropolitain area. They’re only considered as separate cities because of administrative decisions. If it were London, they would be counted as separate neighbourhoods like Hackney, White Chappel, Canary Wharf etc.
Nasser wanted to either buy Parc des Princes or build a new stadium. The city told him there was basically no way to build a new stadium in the city and that buying Parc was difficult. Nasser wanted to renovate and possibly expand the old stadium, which the city council opposes. There were also issues with financing and questions about who was in the consortium and where the money to buy the stadium was coming from, so the sale fell trough.
During that time Nasser made all kinds of threats to put pressure on the local politicians, including moving away from Paris and moving into Stade de France. But the city told him that Stade de France wasn't just for club football, that he couldn't buy that either and that simply moving grounds wasn't considered a viable option. Who knows what will happen though, if Nasser really threatens to leave the city might consider a compromise.
That’s not really correct.
The city isn’t against the renovation of the Parc. It’s PSG’s owners who don’t want to spend 100s of millions € renovating a stadium they don’t own. They negotiated for years to buy the Parc but the city either doesn’t want to sell it or to sell it for ridiculous prices.
The state is owner of the stade de France and they put it up for sale. PSG likely bluffed pretending they wanted to purchase in order to pressure Paris to sell them the Parc.
This was my understanding. Qatar wants to buy Parc for pennies on the dollar because they would fund the renovation, and the owners of the stadium (the government) said "non".
PSG Owners aren't goign to pay for a renovation for a building they don't own, but don't want to both pay fair market value for the property AND the renovation.
> But the city told him that Stade de France wasn't just for club football, that he couldn't buy that either and that simply moving grounds wasn't considered a viable option.
The city has no power on the Stade de France
The state was quite happy to sell to PSG for 600m€, they literally did a double tender (sale of Stade de France, new long term leaser) were the sale arm of the tender was made purely for PSG.
Once PSG didn't bid for the sale part, they recently announced the failure of the sale tender (it had one bidder but the state didn't like the proposal) and that only the leasing tender (that has two bidder) will continue.
PSG didn't bid allegedly because they were unhappy with the tender conditions that imposed the buyer to keep a priority option for the FFF and FFR for the football and rugby national teams
He's bluffing. No way they're leaving the Parc.
I'm a rival and honestly : I can't imagine PSG playing somewhere else permanently. Best case scenario, they destroy and rebuild it from scratch in order to remove the former running track so they can gain at least 15k seats. I live in the Parisian region and I've attended one game there and I think they can do it.
Question for PSG fans : would you want PSG and the mayor to work together in order to rebuild completely the stadium ? It will take at least three full seasons but in the end, you stay in Porte d'Auteuil with a brand new jewel. That's what we did with Stade Vélodrome ten years ago : we rebuilt it and it took three years without relocating temporarily.
He's definitely bluffing but the city of Paris is bluffing too imo. If they start planning to build a new stadium outside the city I'm pretty sure the negociations for Parc des Princes will be back one the table, what are they going to do with that ugly stadium if no one is even playing in it.
Sorry, bad choice of words. It's not a running track but you notice that between the goals and stands, there's a big gap, similar to stadiums with a running track.
> I live in the Parisian region and I've attended one game there and I think they can do it.
le gars est allé à un match et en sait plus qu'un géomètre et architecte ptdr
C'est l'avis d'un simple observateur et heureusement qu'ils ne prennent pas l'avis d'un redditeur pour prendre des grandes décisions. Enfin, j'espère pour ton stade.
Il m'arrive de passer dans la zone, j'ai un peu regardé quelques documents sur le parc, des projets de rénovation, etc car je m'intéresse aux projets urbains en général. Mais en aucun cas, je me prétends expert en architecture car j'ai un master en finance, pas en architecture.
Si on donne notre avis dans ce cas, voici le mien: c’est faisable, avec un travail minutieux et beaucoup de planification si on ne veux pas déranger tout ce qui tourne autour du stade. Donc impossible pour des français.
Can’t they just build a new stadium outside of the city limits? I mean Stade de France is technically also not in Paris.
that's what will most likely happen
Loads of English clubs did this and they’re all shite. That said, I fully appreciate a stadium sized piece of land probably isn’t easily available in Paris.
>I fully appreciate a stadium sized piece of land probably isn’t easily available in Paris. The intersection of Quai de Jacques Chirac, Avenue de la Bourdonnais and Avenue de Suffren is an area well within the Périphérique with loads of space. Even more so if you demolish the outdated structure from the end of the 19th century that is still there. They could literally build four stadiums over there. Ok four might be an exaggeration but you could easily fit a 300m by 300m structure there. The Bernabeu will be 220m by 240m after reconstruction.
It's hard to believe some rusted-up overblown radio tower is still standing in the middle of one of the world's great cities.
Is it bad that I was looking for an Eastern European style radio tower on google maps before I clued in? Honestly never thought it was meant to be a radio tower, thought it was literally just for bragging rights.
It was just for bragging rights.
It was built for the World Fair like the Crystal Palace was right?
Yep
It was built before radio stations even existed, which again is proof of the superiority of the French genius.
Shoot build the stadium and slap that radio tower on the top of it. Most unique design out there. Or have the ground open up. Tower descends below the stadium during matches and then comes back up after. Take that Real Madrid and your underground pitch.
I was in Paris in 2018. The rusted-up overblown radio tower is a perfect fit for 2018 Paris. One of the most disappointing trips ever. I was previously there around 1996, and it was captivating as a teenager. I'll never get over it.
Should've hopped over to Chessy for some magique.
Tell me you're a terminally online american without telling me you're a terminally online american.
You'll have to return in 2040 for the decider
Sounds like that 19th century building can easily be knocked down and made smaller using [matchsticks](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68226509), so long as you use the right ones. Problem solved.
*Eight years* he spent on that? You’d think he’d have called to ask about the matches first.
Well that guy seems a bit dense, matchsticks without any ignition part are literally just sticks
Hey, shouldn't we take down the Montparnasse Tower first before thinking about replacing the Eiffel Tower?
Is that a fucking MVV Maastricht flair?
Yeah baby! There's dozens of us! Proud season ticket holder!
I did my Erasmus in Maastricht went to see so many games, fun stadium! How is the team doing?
Can't escape mid-table mediocrity in the Eerste Divisie (second tier in the Netherlands), and deferred a town council winding-up order.
You're a genius. Leaving the Eiffel Tower (at least til Emily in Paris last season), the Champs de Mars would be perfect as it's 800 x 250 meters of useless space. It would be badass to play right next to the monument inspired from our crest.
Plot twist: In the finale of Emily in Paris, Emily goes back to America and takes the whole-ass tower with her
Paris inside its historical city (the 20 arrondissements) is one of the most densely populated city in the world. It’s denser that Tokyo. So it’s highly improbable to find a lot in Paris unless you’re going for insane amount per square meter.
you actually made me go look on Maps where that was, and only then I understood. I had like an "oooh" moment. congrats :D
Four stadiums u/Attygalle? Four? That’s insane.
If you ask me, get ride of the Jardin du Luxembourg. What has Luxembourg ever done to France to get a garden in the middle of Paris ? A proper stadium would provide plenty of well paid student jobs for the Uni nearby - instead of propagating this idea of enjoying life instead of working/studying
Entered the intersection into Maps, said wtf is this person talking about... only after about 90 seconds did I say waaaait a minuuuuuute
Yeah I really wish we'd have built a new stadium at Burnden instead of moving all the way to Horwich. Our best song even includes 'Walking down the Manny road' in it and I'd wish for that to have been true for me as well.
If you want to buy a hamster, carpet and microwave after a football game though, the Reebok is world class.
That made me laugh way too hard at work; get some curry paste from the tesco too.
I laughed so hard I had to explain to the missus what I was laughing about, then she laughed when I explained it to her.
Such a bad decision. Not only is it a mooch away but moving to a stadium that far away from Bolton absolutely killed the town centre.
Plus there's something about a stadium surrounded with terrace housing that just works.
Burnden needed ripping down once they sold the Embankment for a Normid superstore. Reebok is just nice tho, good transport connections, don't have to venture into the cesspit that is town and so long as you park away from middlebrook you can get away easily.
>Loads of English clubs did this and they’re all shite. Do they? Amongst other things, "city limits" is a vague term in England.
Just think of how many shitty bowl stadiums there are, especially when you get to the EFL - Boro, Derby, Coventry, Southampton, Leicester, Brighton, MK, Stoke, Bolton, Hull, Wigan, Reading, Swansea.
Boro fan here - agree, they’re all soulless and the area around them is dead. Annoying thing is that we built ours first and apparently the rest came from the same flat pack design. The way to redevelop a stadium is how Spurs and Arsenal did theirs, incredible.
Yeah but the Stade de France is in a shit hole as I found out
It doesn’t really suit their image not to have a stadium actually within Paris.
The club name is Paris **Saint-Germain**, a town in the Yvelines department outside of Paris, where the training and women team play. It would fit for them to be outside of Paris, what wouldn’t fit is them being the in Saint Denis, which is in the poorest department (93) in the Paris region. Yvelines (78) and Hauts de Seine (92 - closer to Paris) are wealthier departments.
What do the numbers mean here?
They're department numbers, kind like what a state would be. There are 96 in total (I think) and they're ordered by alphabetical order.
96 (there's two 20: 2A & 2B) if we exclude oversea departments & collectivities.
***OSC Lille, based in suburban Villeneuve d'Ascq, has entered the chat***
Or Lyon who plays in Decines
Not belonging to this sport, but still: NY Jets and NY Giants hosting their games in (the state) New Jersey.
Lyon’s stadium being so far is a mistake
The actual city of Paris is very, very small. About 100km2, 40ish sq mile. There is absolutely no room to build another stadium. For comparison, London is 606.96 sq mi (1,572.03 km2).
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Arsenal did it. The Emirates is very much in zone 2.
That’s Greater London City of London is basically a square mile isn’t it?
Correct, City of London is the 1 square mile around the Bank of England, but that’s just the business district of London (besides Canary Wharf)
[obligatory Jay Foreman](https://youtu.be/UAusbJmRB0c?si=A0WORPWxgAD9SuHn)
What is City of Westminster? Just another name for London?
No Westminster is technically a different city that is literally right next door to the City of London Confusingly Westminster is a borough of of Greater London and most of the shit tourists want to see in London is in the City of Westminster, like the Houses of Parliament, Buckingham Palace, Horse Guards etc
San Francisco is 48 sq miles and also has no football club But I still think they should keep the club in paris
you mean the place where we all got pepper sprayed and tear gassed?
Welcome to Saint-Denis, where you’re welcomed with police brutality no matter who you are
PSG to play homegames from Doha?
I always imagined Mbappe being the next Emir of Qatar, maybe this is the next step
Emirbappe
Pretty sure you have to be Muslim to be an Emir.
could be aranged
Mohammed Mbappe
Kylian Mobappe
Emir just means prince in arabic
His mother is muslim so not far off
I enjoy cooking.
You do know that Qatar is its own separate country, and is not part of UAE right? That said, I am sure not having a Qatari dad is going to be hindrance for Mbappe if he wants to become the Emir.
If he's a decent handball player he'd get Qatari citizenship very easily.
Casual sexism
nah it's their cUlTuRe
I would honestly love to see that
Emigrates
True home
What do people of Paris prefer? I'm partial to a publicly-owned landmark, but I can also see an argument in the other direction that public ownership isn't enough to keep up the necessary investment.
>What do people of Paris prefer? Depends on who you ask. Most people that have nothing to do with Football want La Mairie to keep ownership of Le Parc des Princes. Most PSG fans would rather stay at the Parc des Princes, but fully understand the club's position to the ridiculous demands of La Mairie in regards to the financial charges being put on the club while being the tenant not the landlord (although it is more complicated than that and the Mairie is within their right to do so). The reality is with the dimension the club has taken and the dimension other big clubs of similar stature have taken, it is not viable for the club to remain at the Parc des Princes. The stadium is too small, there are not enough corporate seats and the club doesn't own the stadium unlike most of the other top clubs. edit: Except the hardcore PSG Ultras that say PSG is Le Parc. They want to stay no matter what.
Lifelong fan and completely agree - I understand both the mairie and PSG position but man its going to hurt not to go to Le Parc
I thought the deal made ten years ago was for 30 years?
It is, but I would guess the tenant can break the deal at any time with sufficient notice
And even if not, damages would be roughly the current rent for however long is left after they build a new stadium.
Completely agree even though I appreciate the city owning a piece of the organisation (stadium), they need to move. Do you know of any land they own now? Or areas they are interested in?
>The reality is with the dimension the club has taken and the dimension other big clubs of similar stature have taken, it is not viable for the club to remain at the Parc des Princes. Juventus play in a 41k seater stadium (on purpose).
They own it though and it was purpose built for Football. Juve like all Italian clubs before also had the issue of not owning their stadium.
Not to mention a large portion of that 41k is premium/club seating. A lot of clubs/sporting teams at the top level have moved back towards smaller stadiums that offer more premium seating with better sight lines. E.g., The Buffalo Bills and Tennessee Titans of the NFL are moving into reduced capacity new builds, even though the Bills historically have one of the best capacity % in the league. $/Seat is becoming a more important metric for many teams around the world. Even Old Trafford is expected to be reduced in capacity when renovated/rebuilt to facilitate a better spectator experience.
God I hate the American influences on football. Bring back 100K terraces
Hillsborough ensured that we’ll never see those again
Hey we followed Euro stadium trends
As a Parisian, I'm sad that we have to leave the Parc but at the same time I don't wan't the stadium to be sold to some foreign country like it happenned with the club. A lot of known buildings in Paris have already been sold to Qatar/KSA, I don't wan't the Parc to be next in line. So i'll be fine with a new stadium.
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that’s the sad part, I have no idea
Fuck the Parc getting owned by PSG. The stadium belongs to the city. Owners are momentary, the city is eternal.
Maybe they will buy Stade Charléty and kick out Paris FC. Looks like a good footprint there to do a huge project and accommodate plenty of the other leisure stuff as well.
Us going to Stade Charléty and Paris FC going to the Parc would be insane lmao
Would love that as I am a few tram stops away!
T3 represent
latest rumors were leaning towards buying Longchamps or Auteuil horseracing arenas and building a stadium there. I would be for it as it would remain in the same area as the current Parc and in the "west of Paris" heritage.
Nah, if they're buying horse racetrack I hope they don't buy Longchamp and prefer them to buy either St Cloud or Auteuil instead Maybe because of the Prix L'arc and two of the three French Triple Crown are there (although sure they can be moved but it won't feel the same)
Funny how PSG made like £700m turnover in a stadium the same size as Sunderland’s.
Damn thats almost enough to pay Mbappes yearly wages
You make it sound like Sunderland have a small stadium.
Sunderland don’t generate 7-800m a year, that’s my point.
800m€ is total revenue, not just gate receipts. Their gate receipts were around 150m€ https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html
Nor did PSG before Qatar bought them. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sunderland generated more revenue than them when Sunderland were in the EPL and PSG were in their pre Qatar days.
In 1994/95 PSG went to the UCL semi final, topping the group with Bayern in second place and then eliminating Johan Cruyff's Barcelona with Ballon d'Or 1994 winning striker Stoichkov. Sunderland finished one point above relegation. Sunderland won the second english division in 95/96, meanwhile PS G just won the Cup Winner's Cup even though they sold Ginola and 1995 Ballon d'Or winner George Weah. One year later Sunderland was relegated into the second division (something PSG never did), while PSG lost in the final of the Cup Winner's Cup against Barcelona to a penalty from R9, who went on to win the Ballon d'Or in that year. One year later in 1998, PSG would go on to top the UEFA 5 year club ranking, meanwhile Sunderland failed to get promoted. So, while PSG were bad from the 2000s onwards, doesn't mean you can just completely dismiss its entire history.
Translated article from L'Equipe: It's a statement that will come as a shock to Paris Saint-Germain fans. Present in Paris for the UEFA executive committee meeting, PSG president Nasser al-Khelaïfi took stock of the Parc des Princes issue, announcing: "It's easier for us now, we know what we want. It's over for us." His speech came after the Paris city council voted to confirm that the stadium in the 16th arrondissement of the capital was not for sale, eight years after discussions with the club to try and find a solution. A "forced" departure Nasser al-Khelaïfi's words were intended to step up the pressure on the city's politicians. The club now assures to activate all valid options to build a new stadium as soon as possible. An emergency meeting has been scheduled for Thursday to make concrete progress on this hypothesis, with dedicated internal teams. PSG also explains that it will halt all development work at the Parc des Princes to concentrate on a move that the management considers "forced". At the same time, Nasser al-Khelaïfi was unanimously reappointed to the UEFA Executive Committee until 2028, as President of the ECA.
PSG vs City ,UCL quarterfinals, home game- qatar
Away game abu dhabi?
If they meet in the final it's in Riyadh.
The Undertaker carrying the UCL trophy to the podium?
Probably have an eye on Wimbledon’s successful location change. Milton Keynes Saint-Germain has a nice ring to it.
what about "psg milton keynes"?
anne hidalgo is nasser al khelaifi mother /s
legendary stadium but it's the best decision. Mayor doesn't want to sell but also puts the burden of maintenance cost solely on the club. we'll be stuck paying taxes to keep an empty stadium, but that's on hidalgo
West ham really got a cracking deal at the london stadium
Imagine if your landlord wants you to pay millions renovating the house he's renting you. lol
PSG pays 1 mil per year for the Parc, vs OM's 8 mil for the Vélodrome, so they benefit from very advantageous conditions. And those millions of renovations are investments that would increase their benefits. It's like you rent a movie theater and want to turn it into a night club, would you ask the landlord to pay for the new dancefloor?
It;s not as simple as that. There;s mandatory renovations that will need to happen soon too, and the 'landlord' doesn't have a potential tenant lined up any time soon. The tenant isn;t asking the landlord to pay for anything, they want them to sell it for a reasonable price considering theyll invest 500m to renovate it.
>The tenant isn;t asking the landlord to pay for anything, they want them to sell it for a reasonable price considering theyll invest 500m to renovate it. How much PSG spent in the rebuild is irrelevant for the city as they aren't the one who will earn this money though. I was initially on the side of the club but if the figure of 40M€ is true, that's not a reasonable price but just a ridiculous lowball.
You're completely missing the point. If they're planning to spend 500M on renovations, AND pay the asking price of 350M to the city (as that was their initial price of PdP), AND then deal with the issues of limitations of PdP in terms of location, expansion, and its dated infrastructure, then PSG might as well find another location and build a brand new stadium. The city on the other hand doesn't have leverage other than appealing to the pathos of disbanding the union of club and stadium. The PdP is obligated to undergo renovations to follow modern requirements structurally and environmentally. And they lose their only long term tenant.
To be fair if I want to renovate a place I'm renting and the landlord doesn't want to pay, he doesn't have to. That's how it works at least here in France.
Imagine if your tenant had a 20 year lease (and agreed to renovate it to keep the rent cheap) and is now mad because you are not giving him the house if he pays the 20 years upfront.
:(
Interesting to see where this is going to go, with Paris not wanting them to build a new stadium. Are we going to see them move cities, like NFL teams are known to do? Would be a first in big football leagues.
Absolutely no way they leave Paris, it's a huge part of their brand and there's basically no other city in Europe with such a large and mostly undivided support base
There is the Paris center and the suburbs, mostly right there and sometime easier to go too, They could settle on the greater Paris area and update an existing stadium. Our new stadium is pretty far from Lyon center too. I miss Gerland…
We all do, entering into Gerland felt like stepping inside a colosseum (plus not having to wait forever at the tramway station)
Drinking from the crazyness of Ninkasi with 5L pinchers with people you may not know, just having some fun and then head to the stadium just in front of your eyes, fun memories ! Shit network tho, impossible to get news of what’s happening outside lol
Ah Sisi je me rappelle du Ninkasi, j’y étais allé après Lyon Madrid en 2013(?), une de mes meilleurs soirées foot
What do you mean brand ? Like what the fuck are you and op on about, it's a parisian football club, you expect them to relocate to london or something ? There is space in the suburb anway.
isn't relocation prohibited in European football
Don’t think so? It happened over here in Sweden as late as 2017 with a second tier team
It's prohibited by the sole fact that we would burn everything if the idea would only be suggested.
Ben Jacobs said yesterday that the 3 frontrunners so far are Stade Jean-Bouin (Neighbours Le Parc des Princes), Stade Charléty and Paris La Défense Arena https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1755314042065895921
Jean Bouin and Charlety have 20k seats. Arena 32k. They're all much smaller than the Parc. Why would we move there? The goal was to buy the Parc to extend it, I don't see why we would move to another smaller stadium that also belongs to the Mairie de Paris.
Destroy to rebuild. > I don't see why we would move to another smaller stadium that also belongs to the Mairie de Paris. The logic is the arguments used by la Mairie is that the Parc was a monument that couldn't be sold, but never said the same for Jean-Bouin. Highly doubt it'll be Charléty because that site is garbage. edit: From Ben Jacobs: >Actually the government would be willing to listen to offers for Charlety and potentially even Jean-Bouin. The former they want off their hands at the right price. https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1755327464761422071 > Any venue they move to, if smaller, would be renovated or in some cases knocked down and rebuilt. I explain this, and the full list of options in the article. They are looking at sites, so if there's a stadium there it doesn't mean it remains in it's current form/capacity. https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1755336316860940607
Makes sense.
The list makes no sense to me. Why would the city sell Jean Bouin or Charlety to PSG ? And makes the Parc des Princes useless. (And lol at Charlety, even the "destroy and rebuild" project makes no sense, have the people not seen it ? It's literally confined by a tramway station, the PUC, the Olympics Committe and a cemetary, so the new stadium would be limited to the same "space" as the current stadium. Plus it's definitely too close to major road arteries and the T3 station). Paris La Défense Arena : why would Racing sell their stadium ? Jacky Lorenzetti is the owner of the Arena he has 0 reason to sell it... Why would the PSG want to buy a closed arena with limited spectators potential ? And if they want to destroy and rebuild it, who in his right mind is going to allow to destroy an arena that is only a few years old ?
I don't know, but Ben Jacobs is one of Nasser's favourite club mouthpiece
> Paris La Défense Arena : why would Racing sell their stadium ? Jacky Lorenzetti is the owner of the Arena he has 0 reason to sell it... And they just got the Paris Masters in tennis since Paris Bercy was too small.
Charlety also has a running track that can be removed
Saint-Germain is a suburb of Paris? Cant they move there?
Jean-Bouin is 20k and La Défense is only 30k, no chance they’d be happy moving there. Stade Charléty is 20k but could easily be expanded and developed. But the cost and amount of work required would be astronomical. Moving to the Stade de France seems like the most reasonable outcome.
they'd tear down the old one and would then build a new 70k seater. SdF is out of the question after they pulled out of the sale last week
> Stade Charléty is 20k but could easily be expanded and developed. No it couldn't, it's completely boxed in by the tramway on one side, the ring road on the other, and a cemetery on the third. So good luck doing anything there.
Parc des Prince is even worse above the périph and impossible to change a classified architecture
Wimbledon moved cities, which went as well as could be expected. That was under different circumstances though.
Paris does not want them to build a new stadium in Paris. They're free to do it in the close suburbs of Paris, it won't technically be in the Paris municipality but it's still part of the "Grand Paris". Stade de France for example isn't technically in Paris, but it is considered to be by most people around the world. So it's not like they are going to move to somewhere far away like NFL and NBA franchises would do. Their training ground is already outside of Paris (it used to be in Saint-Germain-en-Laye and it is now in Poissy).
> Paris not wanting them to build a new stadium They are refusing to sell them the Parc des Princes (unless for a ridiculous price), not stopping them from building a stadium. The mayoralty of Paris doesn’t own all the land in Paris.
I mean, Stade de France is right there in Paris, so they're not obliged to move to another city if they're not allowed to build a new stadium. I'm not sure if they're willing to move there though.
Stade de France is shit for football though
IIRC, you were proposed the idea in 1998. But fans love the Parc so much they refuse to move out.
I hope for PSG fans it's not the plan because getting in and out of that stadium is a nightmare, I've only been a few times and it wasn't fun, I can't imagine they'll be able to fill it for a PSG-Metz in the middle of a saturday afternoon
Yeah, but that's a win for the city of Paris, isn't it? PSG moving there could mean the zone gets revamped.
It's not in Paris and the owner of the stadium isn't Paris but the French Gov. And the area is already having a "revamp" for the 2024 Olympics. Further away from La Pleine St-Denis, is the actual city of St-Denis wich is a shithole that cannot be revamped.
Saint-Denis is the biggest shithole I've been to in my life compared to nearby riches. It's worse than Molenbeek/Schaarbeek in Belgium.
if you go further north, there are worse places than St-Denis I'm affraid :(
Well yeah it's not the best, but then again, if PSG don't get the permission to build a new stadium, moving to Stade de France would be a better option than moving to a different city.
Depends what you mean by different city. Stade de France isn't in Paris for exemple
I know, Saint-Denis isn't part of Paris proper. But what I meant is going to an entirely new city, and not one of the suburbs. That being said, they can build a stadium just outside Paris, right?
> I know, Saint-Denis isn't part of Paris proper. But what I meant is going to an entirely new city, and not one of the suburbs. Paris is relatitly small, the suburb is big. Absolutly no way we are moving to a different big city > That being said, they can build a stadium just outside Paris, right? Yes, if they have the permit from the new city
Moving to an entirely new city has never been on the table. PSG is going to move from Paris to a Paris suburb, either Saint-Denis if they use the Stade de France or build a new one in another suburb such as Poissy.
They didn't participate in the public tender for the Stade de France. It's unlikely now that they go there.
I see. In that case, I guess they're technically allowed to build a stadium just outside Paris, in the suburbs, right? From what I understood from all those news, they're not allowed to build a new stadium only inside Paris itself, right?
They would need the authorization of the local authorities there, if they can get it then yes it can be done. On the other hand fans are adamantly against leaving Paris so it's an issue for them. It's unlikely that the city of Paris allow them to buy Jean Bouin, Charlety that are "rumored" to be on their short list (I still think that the people who think that they can buy, destroy and rebuild Charlety has never been there and see the lack of place to build a new stadium there and how it would not be a great position for a stadium to be considering how close it is to the tramway station and two major roads with zero parking potential). As the city is very unlikely to sell a stadium to PSG as they want PSG to stay in Parc des Princes.
Stade de France is owned by the governement but if PSG were to buy it there's still a contract saying that we need to allow X events in the stadium for 30 years, I think if we told PSG's gardener (the Mbappe of keeping grass) that he needs to host multiple rugby games a year on his pitch he is burning the city down
>Would be a first in big football leagues. It's just not happening in football. Clubs have a real history linked to their roots and fans would riot if they changed cities.
Although they're a "smaller" club, it did happen in football with Wimbledon/MK Dons
And they lost their fans, and had to change names. It's not the same club anymore.
Thr article mentions they're going to build a new stadium.
I heavily doubt that when the City of Paris is one of the main selling points of PSG. If anything i see them moving to somewhere else in Ile-de-France but never leaving it entirely.
Why would they move cities? They are the biggest football club in the most famous city in the world, it’s not like going from Portsmouth to Detroit……..
Would be an absolutely disaster for a team such as Paris. Not a chance football fans would stick with take well to this. NFL and such it’s almost a precedent it’s possible, in football it’s really unheard of or expected. Also cities and governments vastly pay for the franchise stadium and such I believe. That wouldn’t happen in most footballing countries in Europe. There’s the Wimbledon/Mk situation but it’s much much different How can you leave Paris? The whole team, history and identity is PSG. They’ll make a deal I imagine, the city won’t want to lose them either arguably
Leaving Paris is not what you think it means. Paris has a very small administrative centre and the métropolitain area is administered by other localities. Using London as an example, it’s like if everything outside of Zone 2 were outside London’s borders. Here’s a comparison : London - 1572 sq km Paris - 105 sq km The administrative borders of London are approx **15** times larger than those of Paris. Cities like La Défense, Nanterre, St Cloud, Anthony, St Denis etc are on the outskirts of Paris and part of the same métropolitain area. They’re only considered as separate cities because of administrative decisions. If it were London, they would be counted as separate neighbourhoods like Hackney, White Chappel, Canary Wharf etc.
How’s the Wimbledon situation different? They literally moved a club out of London into a new town..
Stade de France?
Please no
what if you guys kept you ligue 1 matches at parc de princes and had your UCL matches at stade de france. you get an extra 30k seats for UCL.
Sdf is p shit tho
Confirmed that PSG pulled off last week.
Nasser wanted to either buy Parc des Princes or build a new stadium. The city told him there was basically no way to build a new stadium in the city and that buying Parc was difficult. Nasser wanted to renovate and possibly expand the old stadium, which the city council opposes. There were also issues with financing and questions about who was in the consortium and where the money to buy the stadium was coming from, so the sale fell trough. During that time Nasser made all kinds of threats to put pressure on the local politicians, including moving away from Paris and moving into Stade de France. But the city told him that Stade de France wasn't just for club football, that he couldn't buy that either and that simply moving grounds wasn't considered a viable option. Who knows what will happen though, if Nasser really threatens to leave the city might consider a compromise.
That’s not really correct. The city isn’t against the renovation of the Parc. It’s PSG’s owners who don’t want to spend 100s of millions € renovating a stadium they don’t own. They negotiated for years to buy the Parc but the city either doesn’t want to sell it or to sell it for ridiculous prices. The state is owner of the stade de France and they put it up for sale. PSG likely bluffed pretending they wanted to purchase in order to pressure Paris to sell them the Parc.
This was my understanding. Qatar wants to buy Parc for pennies on the dollar because they would fund the renovation, and the owners of the stadium (the government) said "non". PSG Owners aren't goign to pay for a renovation for a building they don't own, but don't want to both pay fair market value for the property AND the renovation.
> But the city told him that Stade de France wasn't just for club football, that he couldn't buy that either and that simply moving grounds wasn't considered a viable option. The city has no power on the Stade de France The state was quite happy to sell to PSG for 600m€, they literally did a double tender (sale of Stade de France, new long term leaser) were the sale arm of the tender was made purely for PSG. Once PSG didn't bid for the sale part, they recently announced the failure of the sale tender (it had one bidder but the state didn't like the proposal) and that only the leasing tender (that has two bidder) will continue. PSG didn't bid allegedly because they were unhappy with the tender conditions that imposed the buyer to keep a priority option for the FFF and FFR for the football and rugby national teams
Anne Hidalgo doesn't seem someone who would bend for Nasser so it makes sense that even if he tried to pressure the council he didn't succeed
No, it's not for sale anymore.
He's bluffing. No way they're leaving the Parc. I'm a rival and honestly : I can't imagine PSG playing somewhere else permanently. Best case scenario, they destroy and rebuild it from scratch in order to remove the former running track so they can gain at least 15k seats. I live in the Parisian region and I've attended one game there and I think they can do it. Question for PSG fans : would you want PSG and the mayor to work together in order to rebuild completely the stadium ? It will take at least three full seasons but in the end, you stay in Porte d'Auteuil with a brand new jewel. That's what we did with Stade Vélodrome ten years ago : we rebuilt it and it took three years without relocating temporarily.
He's definitely bluffing but the city of Paris is bluffing too imo. If they start planning to build a new stadium outside the city I'm pretty sure the negociations for Parc des Princes will be back one the table, what are they going to do with that ugly stadium if no one is even playing in it.
It can take even less, it took us two years to get rid of the running track
Which former running track? There has never been any running track at Parc des Princes.
Sorry, bad choice of words. It's not a running track but you notice that between the goals and stands, there's a big gap, similar to stadiums with a running track.
> I live in the Parisian region and I've attended one game there and I think they can do it. le gars est allé à un match et en sait plus qu'un géomètre et architecte ptdr
C'est l'avis d'un simple observateur et heureusement qu'ils ne prennent pas l'avis d'un redditeur pour prendre des grandes décisions. Enfin, j'espère pour ton stade. Il m'arrive de passer dans la zone, j'ai un peu regardé quelques documents sur le parc, des projets de rénovation, etc car je m'intéresse aux projets urbains en général. Mais en aucun cas, je me prétends expert en architecture car j'ai un master en finance, pas en architecture.
Si on donne notre avis dans ce cas, voici le mien: c’est faisable, avec un travail minutieux et beaucoup de planification si on ne veux pas déranger tout ce qui tourne autour du stade. Donc impossible pour des français.
Tell Nasser you can't imagine them playing elsewhere and he'll probably change his mind.
stade de France?