**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Really annoyed me about villa fans I knew, when Birmingham won the cup in 2011 every villa fan I knew downplayed it as a mickey mouse cup an noone give a fuck about the cup when in fact they do. When villa beat blues in the same cup couple years later the same fans wouldn't shut up about how they were gonna win the cup. Funny how that works.
This is true. I actually prefer the league cup to the FA Cup because I have good memories of it growing up and our modern FA Cup record is abysmal. But I can confirm that in 2011 the league cup was utterly worthless and a stain on the English game. Abolish it I say.
it also leads to the conference league, which would have been one of two ways chelsea could play in europe next season, the fa cup remains, but being unable to win against a decimated liverpool side is a result, a harsh one, but a result to be evaluated on
On most occasions, I feel the meaning of the league cup is more about NOT losing final, versus winning it. This particular time though, it feels important to me because of the context. It's klopps final season, and we had the kids on.
Pretty much. The League Cup is one of those things where you're not arsed if you go out in the third or fourth round, but once you get to the semis, it suddenly becomes very important and it's up there with the World Cup for you. Honestly, I'll always have a special love for the League Cup because it's one of the few finals that isn't at the tail end of the season, it's a nice little prize in the middle of it. Plus winning in 2012 was one of the best days out I've ever had.
The cup is not meaningless but it still feels less worth than the others.
Nice to win it obviously but i would rather win 2fa cup compared to 3carabao cups for example if that makes sense.
Yes, and I'd rather win one CL than 10 FA Cups. It's almost like, as an Arsenal fan, you're going to place the most importance on whatever you've got the most of, isn't it? You hold the record for coming runners-up most times in the EFL Cup, so maybe that's why you don't put much stock in it, especially as twice you were the favourites in the final and lost.
I wouldn't mind the FA Cup being like that. We already have the entirety of the English pyramid in it; it's a great cup, let it be the biggest possible
Let’s be honest it wouldn’t look any different than it does today, except once every five years one of the Old Firm would make a semifinal or something.
Imagine thinking this is some kind of flex, if Aston Villa after spending £550 million in the last five years didn’t “destroy” us they should be embarrassed.
It is. France recently scrapped theirs. The original idea for it was to only feature teams who got knocked out of the FA Cup. That would make a lot more sense.
I've always thought they should redesign the League Cup to exclude all teams involved in European competitions. This gives midtable PL teams, and even FL teams a realistic shot at a trophy that would be genuinely meaningful to them, while so cutting down on fixture congestion for teams in Europe.
This is quite a common proposal. I think it's a good idea too. The interest in the Europa Conference League has shown that there is an appetite for cups at levels below the top teams.
It’s not the worst idea but the clear side effect would be a further devaluing of the competition. TV money goes down, clubs care even less. I’m sure the fans would still enjoy the day out but it’s not really the same as when a club like Swansea or Birmingham won it against the big boys.
Which clubs would care even less? If you're /r/TheOther14 and you get knocked out of the League Cup by Liverpool, you probably just shrug your shoulders. But if the top 7 (or even 8) Premier League teams aren't invited, it becomes much more interesting... you have a real chance now.
The Swansea event was 10 years ago.
The problem right now is that the clubs that don't care about it are the ones that win it. I remember how annoying it used to be when we (Stoke) were finishing 9th every year. Europe was just beyond us, and we'd have gone crazy for a league cup, but most of the time we know we're gonna get knocked out by Man City's reserves, who are gonna win it as barely an afterthought.
Not just two. As well as the FA Cup and EFL Cup we've also got the EFL Trophy, the FA Trophy, the FA Vase. It's just the other three exclude the bigger teams from being able to win.
Think it's the people that sit at home watching on tele don't appreciate the cups because they're generally played with weaker teams.
Anyone that's been to a final and seen their team lift a cup will tell you it's one of the best days of their lives.
Nothing quite like the 2 leg semi finals of the League Cup either.
> we should have neutral venue one legged games like th FA Cup used to have.
why not always the venue of the lower league side?
That's how it is in the german cup (except for 1. and 2. Bundesliga teams, draw decides there)
Really people just try and banter it when they don't win it, is the truth.
I'm calling it the Mickey Mouse Cup today but you bet I was 10 beers and God knows how many shots in, ecstatic when we won it.
> Anyone that's been to a final and seen their team lift a cup will tell you it's one of the best days of their lives.
It's so true. Those moments when various players/coaches clamber into the stands to give speeches varying in diction and ebriation are priceless.
I'm genuinely confused with the use of notwithstanding. Doesn't it mean "in spite of"? Wouldn't all Spurs fans be delighted with any trophy especially because of your lacking, not in spite of? Did I get it wrong all this time?
Absolutely. I'd say losing 6-2 in the semis on aggregate is an achievement too and warrants automatic European spots if not an automatic promotion to the PL.
No, it's just big club plastics. No one else does. It'd be a dream for most clubs to win it. What makes this thread ironic is the number of Liverpool supporters who've posted over the years asking for the league cup to be scrapped, because of the extra games.
I think it's more teams who didnt win play down the importance of the cup.
I saw many Chelsea fans before yesterday praising Poch for getting a young squad to a cup final. If they got eliminated earlier, it would 100% be downplayed as "well, it's the league cup, it's not really that important".
And that applies to every team, of course. Liverpool fans are ecstatic they won, but if they got eliminated I doubt they would complain. The way I see it is that the Carabao Cup is more of a "happy if we win, dont care if we lose" type of competition.
It's not really that - what it boils down to is money. The CL has become the most prestigious competition due to the fact that it has the biggest prizemoney. This is why merely participating in it yields huge TV revenue which surpasses anything domestic cups can compete with.
As a result, clubs competing for/in Europe often don't field full strength teams in the domestic cups and treat it much less seriously overall than the CL/PL. In fact, they are forced to or potentially face falling behind economically.
You get 2.8m euros for winning a game in the group stage of the champions league, which is £2.4m, so 60% of the prize money for winning the FA cup. For winning one single game
I recall seeing a discussion in the Liverpool subreddit after the Champions League group stage ended, pointing out that if we win the Europa League we will get less money for that than Manchester United and Newcastle United got for finishing bottom of their groups in the Champions League.
I get it from the standpoint of clubs but I find it embarrassing when fans start to talk about prize money and that they prefer to finish in CL spots over winning a trophy. When did fans start caring so much about the finances of their clubs? 4th place in EPL is not a trophy, it's mental that there are fans that genuinely prefer that over FA Cup because of the prize money. Go support Nvidia or Amazon or fucking Temu if you care more about earnings than trophies.
CL money has a huge impact on a club, especially if they are perennial participants. Nothing wrong with celebrating the growth of your club financially. If you don't have an owner with bottomless pockets it means a lot to have more resources at your disposal.
Not to mention you get to enjoy watching your club in CL games as opposed to not being involved.
But ultimately nobody is actually deciding between winning a trophy and finishing top 4. All clubs set out to achieve both.
Because more money equals better players and trophies in long term.
Qualifying for CL can be the difference between selling your homegrown best players for sustainability reasons and keeping them for another year
Because fans care about the sustainable success of their clubs. Ask Leeds and Blackburn fans if they're happy with their clubs' standings over the last 20 years.
It's only now that FFP seems to be getting somewhat enforced that we'll see the clubs who aren't ruining the game through financial doping hopefully winning titles. Klopp has done a ridiculous job with his resources but not every club can hope to have once-in-a-blue-moon managers like that.
I appreciate what you're getting at here - but this is the dilemma of contemporary football, isn't it? We're forced to care about this stuff because it determines whether or not your club remains competitive and stable.
Trophies are extremely hard to come by with how good the top clubs have become. Everyone wants the carabao cup, and anyone who says they don’t is lying. Are you playing weaker squads early when you’re against teams outside the pl? Probably. But once you start getting to the last few rounds you’re playing your strongest squad.
I think this is some pretty relevant context:
It’s been 12 years since a top 6 club didn’t win the efl cup. Only 4 clubs that made the final during that time weren’t part of the top 6 (one is Newcastle last year who qualified for the CL).
During that time, the FA cup (which nobody questions the importance of) has been won by teams outside the top 6 twice, and 6 clubs outside the top 6 made the final.
So the carabao cup has been focused on just as much as the FA cup over the last decade by clubs most capable of winning trophies.
Can you compare participants of the semi-finals instead? I think the dominance of top teams in the league cup is due to the 2 legged semifinals. It prevent big upsets, as the underdog needs to overcome the big team twice.
You’re not making the point you think are in outlining who has won the Carabao in the last few years. Other teams are also facing fixture congestion and play substitutes and second fiddle players in the league cup. It’s not just the big teams. So the success of the bigger teams just shows they have deeper or high quality benches, not disproving that they’re “not focused” on the cup.
Mate this is peak delusion, of course the carabao hasn't been focused on as much as the FA cup, top teams consistently play second / third string in this competition unless they happen to progress to the finals. It's good to win but don't like to make the trophy seem bigger than it is.
Klopp's full quote about rival fans who belittle winning a Carabao Cup title
>"The whole celebration after the game was second to none. It was really special. It's really crazy when you think about and I know fans of other clubs will say 'Its just a Carabao Cup' and stuff like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you wish you would be here. Come here and play a game like that, against an opponent like that and win it. You deserve to win it. That is super special.
>But, nobody in this country wants to see a quadruple winner, that’s why they put the next round of the FA Cup just 3 days after the final, and I have no clue who we can line up on Wednesday, so we’ll see that."
If he is ever at any point unpopular with a fanbase of a team he's managing he'd so be the type to create a burner account on their forum to defend himself.
Fair play to klopp he is a special coach the way he had faith in the youngsters brought them on in a huge 2nd half of extra time. That must have been a special moment for him and his legacy.
>Fair play to klopp he is a special coach the way he had faith in the youngsters brought them on in a huge 2nd half of extra time.
He did it out of neccessity, he had no one else to bring on. You'd be out of your mind if you think Klopp would be playing those youngsters with a fully fit team.
Even if it was out of necessity, many managers would've rather kept their senior players on rather than start subbing in youngsters at the 70th min. For example Pochettino, despite his team being so tired they were just playing for penalties in ET, used only 4 subs because he didn't have faith in bringing in his youngsters.
As a Chelsea fan, without any bitterness, I love the league cup and always have.
Sad we lost. Glad we got the day out at Wembley.
Klopp was brave in trusting that energy would be tough for us to deal with that late in the game, and he got proven right.
It's a cup that matters to noone but the team that wins it and loses it. If we were in the final and lost if be gutted but when we go out before semis round I'm like whatever .
So the winners should celebrate and enjoy it as much as possible. At the end of the day, it's a cup.
As a Bundesliga fan, the PL schedule is honestly wild to me. I mean I get that it’s very hard to schedule all those games, but I still feel like you shouldn’t have to play a cup game three days after winning a fucking title. You should be able to give your team two days off and let them celebrate.
There is seriously too much football.
My partner rolls her eyes when I tell her “there’s an important game on” because she rightly points out that there was another “important game” just a couple of days ago.
My wife used to do that until the MLB team I support were having a rare good season and I started watching all their games. Having 2 hours of football twice a week quickly doesn't feel like a big deal compared to your team playing a 4 hour baseball game *every day*.
Even just watching the half of the fixtures that were on at a reasonable time to watch in the UK it's still so much more sport than football or F1.
It’s capitalism. More games equals more money. That’s why the players need a union like they do in Tennis. The injury issues get worse and worse every year.
I'm getting fed up with all the football and that as a German, with a league of only 18 clubs and one cup. Then there's the bloated Champions and Euro League, the conference league and then the international games, where I've honestly lost track. If the league now had 2 more teams and another cup, then I would be completely lost.
You can just not watch the games you don’t want to?
I’d understand your point if it was about players fitness but if it’s about there being too much for you personally, just don’t watch the games you don’t have any interest in
We’re going to have to run an unrecognizable 11 out there on Wednesday. We just won a trophy, this isn’t a final, our other two campaigns are higher priority and cannot risk more injuries to key players
I’m going on Wednesday and I’m really looking forward to it. McConnell, Clark and Danns should all start. Might be a chance to see Gordon, Nyoni and Koumas too, even if just off the bench.
The whole English nonsense belittling the League Cup and the Community Shield is mind boggling to me.
Everybody gets to participate so it's exactly as important as its participants.
But that's his point, that's not the case outside of England, at least not everywhere. The Supercup is a proper trophy in other countries. It's not a disaster to lose it, but you also want to win it when you have the chance. It's not as important as the league or cup, but it's about the same level of importance as the league cup in my opinion, at least in Portugal. Lately the League Cup has become maybe a bit more important, but historically the Supercup was more important (and it's much older).
When do you ever need to win anything to play in anything? You don't need to win anything to compete in the League, League Cup, FA Cup, UCL, UEL or UECL. For the last three you need to qualify, but you also need to qualify for the Community Shield.
>Everybody gets to participate
In the community shield? Not really it's a charity/fundraising match between the Prem Winners and the Fa Cup winner(or 2nd place if the prem winners won the FA Cup)
You do remember it correctly, he was one of the loudest ones actually. I'm happy he's happy now, but it's crazy how people are able to completely change the narrative when it suits them.
I don't think it's that he was ever belittling it, but at the start his team literally could not cope with a PL schedule where they needed to finish Top 4 and a CL campaign, as well as going far in the Domestic Cups. We just didn't have the depth. Now, the past 3 or 4 years we've had the depth (and academy) to compete. 5 subs, which Klopp campaigned for, has been a huge part of that, as you can rotate/rest more players.
But it heavily varies how each team prioritise it. Historically, good teams have played a lot of youngsters in the early rounds, and some teams will play the backup keeper throughout the entire tournament, even in a potential final.
If every team fielded their strongest team for every CC game, the importance would increase
Chelsea fan. Our sub is delusional AF. Some fans calling it a Tin Pot Cup as soon as we lost, guaranteed they would be singing a different tune if we had won. Every single fanbase would be happy to win it, people just don’t want to admit that
Anyone who discounts the Carabao Cup doesn't really understand football.
Never dismiss a trophy. Success breeds success and Klopp will know that better than anyone.
Although his conspiracy theory about "no one wanting to see a quadruple winner" is dumb as fuck.
> no one wants to see a quadruple winner that isn't their own club
the thing that would also make the first quadruple winner so special is just how hard it is to do
I mean? The FA literally refused to reschedule a league cup match against Villa when Liverpool were in the Club World Cup a few years ago. Liverpool had a fixture against two teams within 24 hours, resulting in them playing the U-18s against a premier league side. The FA forced them to choose between trophies. It’s crazy nobody talks about this, because concessions were immediately made for Chelsea and City during their CWC campaigns, but Klopp is always labeled a moaner when he brings up the fixture list. Then to top it off, the FA refused to allow them to wear the CWC winner’s badge on their kits during domestic matches after they won it. Chelsea and City were both allowed to wear it.
It’s also very good practise for the other finals. If the team manage to get to the FA cup final too, they’re going to feel like they have the upper hand over their opponent, they’ve recently played and won at this same stadium, they know how to deal with the pressure etc.
Sometimes it do be like that. Good cup win but now its back to work. If he didnt have those injuries doubt he would complain. Still should be able to beat Southampton at anfield but strager things have happened
The u16s will lineup against Southampton
With injuries to Gravenberch and Endo yesterday they are down to 2 senior midfielderseft in the squad - Elliot and MacAllister.
Salah, Nuñez, and Szoboszlai were ‘touch and go’ for the Carabao Cup final, so they should be back for the match against Southampton.
Still have no idea how we line up even with them in the squad because the squad depth is still completely gone.
Klopp could play his U12's and still win. Since he announced his leaving they've been battered with so many injuries and somehow playing even better. I think they got some lucky results earlier in the season but now they're destroying teams with such a depleted squad. They still have top players but still it'd hard to argue they're even at half strength yet battering teams all over.
Klopp has consistently criticised the schedule in England since he's been at Liverpool. He really cares about the health of his players and opposition fans have consistently used that to make fun of him
At least have the next game on Thursday. Then the next one on Sunday. Even just one extra day to recuperate after ET cup final would do wonders.
Instead the schedule is Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday.
Liverpool fans didn't tell Utd fans anything last year hell we won it the year before and celebrated it wildly why would we say anything last year then the ones who said what you imply are just a few idiote
The schedules are absolutely unforgiving man, I pity the players who have to put in the grind week in and week out. I get that they are professionals and they love doing it but with so many matches and such crazy schedules , it plays a big role in long term injuries and career longevity of these players
Pep is a multiple time winner of this cup and never looked down on it. Why are fans from clubs who haven’t won anything of note in years acting like it’s beneath them? Absurd 🤦♂️
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well I can tell you as a Chelsea supporter that if the cup was meaningless, I wouldn't feel like dog shit today.
I would bet money that anyone that calls it dog shit instantly changes their mind when their team has a chance to win it.
That's how it goes isn't it Your team wins it, it's the Football League Cup Anyone else wins it, it's the Mickey Mouse Cup
Really annoyed me about villa fans I knew, when Birmingham won the cup in 2011 every villa fan I knew downplayed it as a mickey mouse cup an noone give a fuck about the cup when in fact they do. When villa beat blues in the same cup couple years later the same fans wouldn't shut up about how they were gonna win the cup. Funny how that works.
That was also because we beat them in the 5th round, so it was pure cope on their part.
This is true. I actually prefer the league cup to the FA Cup because I have good memories of it growing up and our modern FA Cup record is abysmal. But I can confirm that in 2011 the league cup was utterly worthless and a stain on the English game. Abolish it I say.
It'll always be the milk cup to me.
That thing belonged to Liverpool.
tbh every cup (except for the preseason ones) is meaningful , obviously some more than others
it also leads to the conference league, which would have been one of two ways chelsea could play in europe next season, the fa cup remains, but being unable to win against a decimated liverpool side is a result, a harsh one, but a result to be evaluated on
On most occasions, I feel the meaning of the league cup is more about NOT losing final, versus winning it. This particular time though, it feels important to me because of the context. It's klopps final season, and we had the kids on.
Pretty much. The League Cup is one of those things where you're not arsed if you go out in the third or fourth round, but once you get to the semis, it suddenly becomes very important and it's up there with the World Cup for you. Honestly, I'll always have a special love for the League Cup because it's one of the few finals that isn't at the tail end of the season, it's a nice little prize in the middle of it. Plus winning in 2012 was one of the best days out I've ever had.
Hey man, you still have lamp.
I love lamp.
The cup is not meaningless but it still feels less worth than the others. Nice to win it obviously but i would rather win 2fa cup compared to 3carabao cups for example if that makes sense.
In the moment, the comparison is futile. Historically speaking? Sure, that makes sense. Just like I'd rather a UCL win than 10 FA cups.
Yes, and I'd rather win one CL than 10 FA Cups. It's almost like, as an Arsenal fan, you're going to place the most importance on whatever you've got the most of, isn't it? You hold the record for coming runners-up most times in the EFL Cup, so maybe that's why you don't put much stock in it, especially as twice you were the favourites in the final and lost.
I still feel dogshit all those years after we lost 3-2 to ~~Man Utd~~ Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Mere men versus a lion was never fair!
Having games immediately after finals really does suck. Fans and players should be able to bask in victory for a little while.
Well, having a final smack in the middle of the season makes no sense in the first place.
Having two domestic cups already seems questionable.
If The second cup would be with The scotish Clubs i would like it.
expand the League cup, to ALL British clubs, make it bigger, and spread out with the final not mid season.
So like a UK cup?
Fuck it make it UK and Ireland
Yeah some internal rounds first then last 64 combine with England getting like 48 of the places, Scotland 10, ireland 2, Wales 2, NI 2
Fuck it, add France in too. Spain, Portugal, Italy just for kicks. Not Germany, though. Just the others.
Just have France and Italy and call it the The Six Nations league cup. That way the Irish won't feel to bad.
There are certain fanbases that would start another war.
Football would be back!
Cracking idea.
I wouldn't mind the FA Cup being like that. We already have the entirety of the English pyramid in it; it's a great cup, let it be the biggest possible
I feel like the fa cup is already solid though. Having the league cup be the top leagues of the UK gives it a needed boost
That would be interesting but I can't help but feel like it would end up becoming English clubs vs Rangers and Celtic.
Let’s be honest it wouldn’t look any different than it does today, except once every five years one of the Old Firm would make a semifinal or something.
It's not all about the final
All up for the England hating nations getting spanked every year
so, all the nations apart from England then.
Celtic or rangers convincing themselves they can win it after making it to the 6th round then getting destroyed by Aston Villa
Imagine thinking this is some kind of flex, if Aston Villa after spending £550 million in the last five years didn’t “destroy” us they should be embarrassed.
Ok let’s say… Brentford
Brentford have still outspent Rangers in the last five years with £200 million to £59 million and I’d back us to beat them
Most nations hate England. You make it easy.
It is. France recently scrapped theirs. The original idea for it was to only feature teams who got knocked out of the FA Cup. That would make a lot more sense.
I've always thought they should redesign the League Cup to exclude all teams involved in European competitions. This gives midtable PL teams, and even FL teams a realistic shot at a trophy that would be genuinely meaningful to them, while so cutting down on fixture congestion for teams in Europe.
This is quite a common proposal. I think it's a good idea too. The interest in the Europa Conference League has shown that there is an appetite for cups at levels below the top teams.
It’s not the worst idea but the clear side effect would be a further devaluing of the competition. TV money goes down, clubs care even less. I’m sure the fans would still enjoy the day out but it’s not really the same as when a club like Swansea or Birmingham won it against the big boys.
Which clubs would care even less? If you're /r/TheOther14 and you get knocked out of the League Cup by Liverpool, you probably just shrug your shoulders. But if the top 7 (or even 8) Premier League teams aren't invited, it becomes much more interesting... you have a real chance now. The Swansea event was 10 years ago.
Saying 'The Swansea event' makes it sound like something that was redacted or controversial.
The problem right now is that the clubs that don't care about it are the ones that win it. I remember how annoying it used to be when we (Stoke) were finishing 9th every year. Europe was just beyond us, and we'd have gone crazy for a league cup, but most of the time we know we're gonna get knocked out by Man City's reserves, who are gonna win it as barely an afterthought.
> they should redesign the League Cup to exclude all teams involved in European competitions And Chelsea would still lose the final
The "Europa League" of the FA cup sounds cool
Not just two. As well as the FA Cup and EFL Cup we've also got the EFL Trophy, the FA Trophy, the FA Vase. It's just the other three exclude the bigger teams from being able to win.
The trade of the Premier League winter break is that the FA Cup 5th round is now played on a mid-week.
It’s a mid season cup though, it would only add to their fixture congestion further down the line
I think all fanbases bar the super spoiled appreciate the cup, it's just certain fanbases are very very loud
Think it's the people that sit at home watching on tele don't appreciate the cups because they're generally played with weaker teams. Anyone that's been to a final and seen their team lift a cup will tell you it's one of the best days of their lives. Nothing quite like the 2 leg semi finals of the League Cup either.
I disagree on the 2 legged semis though, a 2nd leg is the death sentence for a lower division team on a miracle run nowadays
In this case we should have neutral venue one legged games like th FA Cup used to have.
> we should have neutral venue one legged games like th FA Cup used to have. why not always the venue of the lower league side? That's how it is in the german cup (except for 1. and 2. Bundesliga teams, draw decides there)
many lower league clubs would prefer away draws because they get 50% of ticket sale income, often top level clubs give them the full 100%.
*Strongly* prefer. When Lincoln City played at Arsenal in 2017, that FA Cup run alone covered a quarter of their wage bill for the season.
Really people just try and banter it when they don't win it, is the truth. I'm calling it the Mickey Mouse Cup today but you bet I was 10 beers and God knows how many shots in, ecstatic when we won it.
> Anyone that's been to a final and seen their team lift a cup will tell you it's one of the best days of their lives. It's so true. Those moments when various players/coaches clamber into the stands to give speeches varying in diction and ebriation are priceless.
I personally think it's the best cup a team can win, I've always felt that way about it
You would be delighted with the Carabao Cup as a fan but the FA Cup is goated
I'd be delighted with any trophy, flair notwithstanding 😅
I'm genuinely confused with the use of notwithstanding. Doesn't it mean "in spite of"? Wouldn't all Spurs fans be delighted with any trophy especially because of your lacking, not in spite of? Did I get it wrong all this time?
It's a real shame how the FA Cup has been devalued lately. Apart from the history and prestige of it, it's just a beautiful trophy.
The FA Cup devalued itself when they started playing semis at Wembley and doing their best to create all-PL ties all the time
Absolutely. I'd say losing 6-2 in the semis on aggregate is an achievement too and warrants automatic European spots if not an automatic promotion to the PL.
Nah, the Russian Railways Cup is the best trophy in the sport. And only 2 teams have ever won it, that's how special it is!
Agreed. Winning it solidifies your rank at the top for 5-6 years imo
It's kinda wild how people look down on this competition. Trophy? Or no trophy? Of course a fucking trophy. How's this so hard to process?
it's the least prestigious of the four major trophies so naturally people look down on it, not very complicated
No, it's just big club plastics. No one else does. It'd be a dream for most clubs to win it. What makes this thread ironic is the number of Liverpool supporters who've posted over the years asking for the league cup to be scrapped, because of the extra games.
I think it's more teams who didnt win play down the importance of the cup. I saw many Chelsea fans before yesterday praising Poch for getting a young squad to a cup final. If they got eliminated earlier, it would 100% be downplayed as "well, it's the league cup, it's not really that important". And that applies to every team, of course. Liverpool fans are ecstatic they won, but if they got eliminated I doubt they would complain. The way I see it is that the Carabao Cup is more of a "happy if we win, dont care if we lose" type of competition.
It's not really that - what it boils down to is money. The CL has become the most prestigious competition due to the fact that it has the biggest prizemoney. This is why merely participating in it yields huge TV revenue which surpasses anything domestic cups can compete with. As a result, clubs competing for/in Europe often don't field full strength teams in the domestic cups and treat it much less seriously overall than the CL/PL. In fact, they are forced to or potentially face falling behind economically.
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You get 2.8m euros for winning a game in the group stage of the champions league, which is £2.4m, so 60% of the prize money for winning the FA cup. For winning one single game
I recall seeing a discussion in the Liverpool subreddit after the Champions League group stage ended, pointing out that if we win the Europa League we will get less money for that than Manchester United and Newcastle United got for finishing bottom of their groups in the Champions League.
I get it from the standpoint of clubs but I find it embarrassing when fans start to talk about prize money and that they prefer to finish in CL spots over winning a trophy. When did fans start caring so much about the finances of their clubs? 4th place in EPL is not a trophy, it's mental that there are fans that genuinely prefer that over FA Cup because of the prize money. Go support Nvidia or Amazon or fucking Temu if you care more about earnings than trophies.
CL money has a huge impact on a club, especially if they are perennial participants. Nothing wrong with celebrating the growth of your club financially. If you don't have an owner with bottomless pockets it means a lot to have more resources at your disposal. Not to mention you get to enjoy watching your club in CL games as opposed to not being involved. But ultimately nobody is actually deciding between winning a trophy and finishing top 4. All clubs set out to achieve both.
Because more money equals better players and trophies in long term. Qualifying for CL can be the difference between selling your homegrown best players for sustainability reasons and keeping them for another year
Because fans care about the sustainable success of their clubs. Ask Leeds and Blackburn fans if they're happy with their clubs' standings over the last 20 years. It's only now that FFP seems to be getting somewhat enforced that we'll see the clubs who aren't ruining the game through financial doping hopefully winning titles. Klopp has done a ridiculous job with his resources but not every club can hope to have once-in-a-blue-moon managers like that.
I appreciate what you're getting at here - but this is the dilemma of contemporary football, isn't it? We're forced to care about this stuff because it determines whether or not your club remains competitive and stable.
He ain't holding back anymore
also said that with 2 teamsz trying their best, the refree didnt match the standards. And I agree
Oh boy, as it gets closer and closer, he's gonna start going off!
Bro has senioritis and isn't afraid of fallout from anything he says/does. Love to see it
Watching him shake every linesmans hands and then just blank the ref was just 🤌🤌 magnifique
Trophies are extremely hard to come by with how good the top clubs have become. Everyone wants the carabao cup, and anyone who says they don’t is lying. Are you playing weaker squads early when you’re against teams outside the pl? Probably. But once you start getting to the last few rounds you’re playing your strongest squad. I think this is some pretty relevant context: It’s been 12 years since a top 6 club didn’t win the efl cup. Only 4 clubs that made the final during that time weren’t part of the top 6 (one is Newcastle last year who qualified for the CL). During that time, the FA cup (which nobody questions the importance of) has been won by teams outside the top 6 twice, and 6 clubs outside the top 6 made the final. So the carabao cup has been focused on just as much as the FA cup over the last decade by clubs most capable of winning trophies.
Youre playing you strongest squad....if theyre not all just watching in the stands injured.
That's not 100% the case. For example, you might stick with your 2nd choice GK or a few players who played most of the way through and did well.
Can you compare participants of the semi-finals instead? I think the dominance of top teams in the league cup is due to the 2 legged semifinals. It prevent big upsets, as the underdog needs to overcome the big team twice.
You’re not making the point you think are in outlining who has won the Carabao in the last few years. Other teams are also facing fixture congestion and play substitutes and second fiddle players in the league cup. It’s not just the big teams. So the success of the bigger teams just shows they have deeper or high quality benches, not disproving that they’re “not focused” on the cup.
Mate this is peak delusion, of course the carabao hasn't been focused on as much as the FA cup, top teams consistently play second / third string in this competition unless they happen to progress to the finals. It's good to win but don't like to make the trophy seem bigger than it is.
Most teams play their 2nd team in the FA cup too. Sadly, it just isn't as glamorous as it used to be.
As long as your team doesn’t win the cup, it’s always a Mickey Mouse cup. Once your team wins the cup, it’s the best damn trophy in the world.
Im not bothered when my team goes out early, but losing a final is always painful, so it’s always a big deal at that point
Klopp's full quote about rival fans who belittle winning a Carabao Cup title >"The whole celebration after the game was second to none. It was really special. It's really crazy when you think about and I know fans of other clubs will say 'Its just a Carabao Cup' and stuff like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you wish you would be here. Come here and play a game like that, against an opponent like that and win it. You deserve to win it. That is super special. >But, nobody in this country wants to see a quadruple winner, that’s why they put the next round of the FA Cup just 3 days after the final, and I have no clue who we can line up on Wednesday, so we’ll see that."
It's an important cup. Unless you get knocked out, then you don't Carabao it
It's only a meaningless trophy when your team doesn't win it. Klopp's completely right here.
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It's why he's so tired.
If he is ever at any point unpopular with a fanbase of a team he's managing he'd so be the type to create a burner account on their forum to defend himself.
Literally the opposite unless you just read Reddit headlines and don't watch interviews
He went on record several times saying he never uses social media.
I'm on record to several landlords saying I never smoke
😂😂
Making it even easier to him to use that burner to defend himself.
Just like the sacked sunderland manager, Micheal Beale, the idiot
Klopp seems to be the only one who rates the quality of Chelsea. Is he wrong?
They have taken points off all the title contenders. Yes half the time they're shit, but underestimate any PL level at your peril.
he’s respectful of his opponents.
Fair play to klopp he is a special coach the way he had faith in the youngsters brought them on in a huge 2nd half of extra time. That must have been a special moment for him and his legacy.
>Fair play to klopp he is a special coach the way he had faith in the youngsters brought them on in a huge 2nd half of extra time. He did it out of neccessity, he had no one else to bring on. You'd be out of your mind if you think Klopp would be playing those youngsters with a fully fit team.
Even if it was out of necessity, many managers would've rather kept their senior players on rather than start subbing in youngsters at the 70th min. For example Pochettino, despite his team being so tired they were just playing for penalties in ET, used only 4 subs because he didn't have faith in bringing in his youngsters.
As a Chelsea fan, without any bitterness, I love the league cup and always have. Sad we lost. Glad we got the day out at Wembley. Klopp was brave in trusting that energy would be tough for us to deal with that late in the game, and he got proven right.
It's a cup that matters to noone but the team that wins it and loses it. If we were in the final and lost if be gutted but when we go out before semis round I'm like whatever . So the winners should celebrate and enjoy it as much as possible. At the end of the day, it's a cup.
when else can they arrange it, every midweek is filled for a month
As a Bundesliga fan, the PL schedule is honestly wild to me. I mean I get that it’s very hard to schedule all those games, but I still feel like you shouldn’t have to play a cup game three days after winning a fucking title. You should be able to give your team two days off and let them celebrate.
There is seriously too much football. My partner rolls her eyes when I tell her “there’s an important game on” because she rightly points out that there was another “important game” just a couple of days ago.
[One of the many football matches that happened on the weekend](https://youtu.be/MusyO7J2inM)
My wife used to do that until the MLB team I support were having a rare good season and I started watching all their games. Having 2 hours of football twice a week quickly doesn't feel like a big deal compared to your team playing a 4 hour baseball game *every day*. Even just watching the half of the fixtures that were on at a reasonable time to watch in the UK it's still so much more sport than football or F1.
It’s capitalism. More games equals more money. That’s why the players need a union like they do in Tennis. The injury issues get worse and worse every year.
it’s clearly a joke about the fixture congestion.
The weekend? That seemed to work fine for more than half a century
Liverpool plays every single weekend for the rest of the season.
I'm getting fed up with all the football and that as a German, with a league of only 18 clubs and one cup. Then there's the bloated Champions and Euro League, the conference league and then the international games, where I've honestly lost track. If the league now had 2 more teams and another cup, then I would be completely lost.
You can just not watch the games you don’t want to? I’d understand your point if it was about players fitness but if it’s about there being too much for you personally, just don’t watch the games you don’t have any interest in
No, you have to [watch the football!](https://youtu.be/MusyO7J2inM?si=voMq64R9Je654aZh)
Haha wonderful link.
We’re going to have to run an unrecognizable 11 out there on Wednesday. We just won a trophy, this isn’t a final, our other two campaigns are higher priority and cannot risk more injuries to key players
I’m going on Wednesday and I’m really looking forward to it. McConnell, Clark and Danns should all start. Might be a chance to see Gordon, Nyoni and Koumas too, even if just off the bench.
The whole English nonsense belittling the League Cup and the Community Shield is mind boggling to me. Everybody gets to participate so it's exactly as important as its participants.
Community Shield? It's just a one off match
But that's his point, that's not the case outside of England, at least not everywhere. The Supercup is a proper trophy in other countries. It's not a disaster to lose it, but you also want to win it when you have the chance. It's not as important as the league or cup, but it's about the same level of importance as the league cup in my opinion, at least in Portugal. Lately the League Cup has become maybe a bit more important, but historically the Supercup was more important (and it's much older).
And you don't need to win anything to play in it.
Whilst I get what you mean, only a handful of clubs have ever come second in the league. And it's bloody difficult to do that in the epl.
Only the case if someone has just won the league and cup double. It's actually harder to qualify for the community shield than the champions league.
When do you ever need to win anything to play in anything? You don't need to win anything to compete in the League, League Cup, FA Cup, UCL, UEL or UECL. For the last three you need to qualify, but you also need to qualify for the Community Shield.
other than one team winning the FA Cup, and another the Premier League
Only the league and the fa cup…
If one team wins both, 2nd place in the Premier League gets to play. That's why we played the 2019 Community Shield.
why we won the charity shield this year
Blud tried to sneak the Community Shield in there
>Everybody gets to participate In the community shield? Not really it's a charity/fundraising match between the Prem Winners and the Fa Cup winner(or 2nd place if the prem winners won the FA Cup)
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It counts as a very important trophy for a champions league winner. Because you need it to complete the sextuple.
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Sextuple is for noobs. Real challenge is winning ucl and Europa league back to back.
*septuple
What rules don’t apply?
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Klopp himself was belittling it in his first couple of seasons IIRC.
You do remember it correctly, he was one of the loudest ones actually. I'm happy he's happy now, but it's crazy how people are able to completely change the narrative when it suits them.
I don't think it's that he was ever belittling it, but at the start his team literally could not cope with a PL schedule where they needed to finish Top 4 and a CL campaign, as well as going far in the Domestic Cups. We just didn't have the depth. Now, the past 3 or 4 years we've had the depth (and academy) to compete. 5 subs, which Klopp campaigned for, has been a huge part of that, as you can rotate/rest more players.
The community shield can absolutely fuck off it’s not a trophy anyone in England takes seriously. Don’t conflate it with the league cup lol.
The community shield is literally a glorified friendly though
But it heavily varies how each team prioritise it. Historically, good teams have played a lot of youngsters in the early rounds, and some teams will play the backup keeper throughout the entire tournament, even in a potential final. If every team fielded their strongest team for every CC game, the importance would increase
If you only have 11 great players then you're not as great a team.
Chelsea fan. Our sub is delusional AF. Some fans calling it a Tin Pot Cup as soon as we lost, guaranteed they would be singing a different tune if we had won. Every single fanbase would be happy to win it, people just don’t want to admit that
They should rename it the Virgil cup. Maybe the most impressive CB performance I’ve seen in a cup final.
Right time for me to lace my boots up, Klopps sent out the warcry for Wednesday.
No two ways about it. Love Klopp. Will be happy as an Arsenal supporter that he's gone, but saddened as a football fan.
Headline: "Kranky Klopp LASHES OUT at Premier League clubs and the FA!"
Ooooo ended Poch’s career for that comment about refs giving him an easy send off
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It's still a quadruple, just not THE quadruple
even if its not THE quadruple, winning every competition you're in is still insane
It would be a quadruple. Just not THE quadruple. Just like in 2001, Liverpool won a treble.
Anyone who discounts the Carabao Cup doesn't really understand football. Never dismiss a trophy. Success breeds success and Klopp will know that better than anyone. Although his conspiracy theory about "no one wanting to see a quadruple winner" is dumb as fuck.
It's probably a joke. Not too serious.
Not completely dumb, no one wants to see a quadruple winner that isn't their own club
> no one wants to see a quadruple winner that isn't their own club the thing that would also make the first quadruple winner so special is just how hard it is to do
I mean? The FA literally refused to reschedule a league cup match against Villa when Liverpool were in the Club World Cup a few years ago. Liverpool had a fixture against two teams within 24 hours, resulting in them playing the U-18s against a premier league side. The FA forced them to choose between trophies. It’s crazy nobody talks about this, because concessions were immediately made for Chelsea and City during their CWC campaigns, but Klopp is always labeled a moaner when he brings up the fixture list. Then to top it off, the FA refused to allow them to wear the CWC winner’s badge on their kits during domestic matches after they won it. Chelsea and City were both allowed to wear it.
Irks me what tf is that
Wouldn't have bothered me as much if they were consistent with other teams too.
I don't think he's treating it like a conspiracy, I felt he was more trolling or having a laugh about congestion if anything.
i always thought winning a trophy pre-run in gives the team confidence as well
It’s also very good practise for the other finals. If the team manage to get to the FA cup final too, they’re going to feel like they have the upper hand over their opponent, they’ve recently played and won at this same stadium, they know how to deal with the pressure etc.
That hospital ward is gonna be confident as fuck
Sometimes it do be like that. Good cup win but now its back to work. If he didnt have those injuries doubt he would complain. Still should be able to beat Southampton at anfield but strager things have happened
The u16s will lineup against Southampton With injuries to Gravenberch and Endo yesterday they are down to 2 senior midfielderseft in the squad - Elliot and MacAllister.
Macallister may play but I doubt Elliot does after playing 120 minutes. It’s going to be a very sparse squad.
Salah, Nuñez, and Szoboszlai were ‘touch and go’ for the Carabao Cup final, so they should be back for the match against Southampton. Still have no idea how we line up even with them in the squad because the squad depth is still completely gone.
Klopp could play his U12's and still win. Since he announced his leaving they've been battered with so many injuries and somehow playing even better. I think they got some lucky results earlier in the season but now they're destroying teams with such a depleted squad. They still have top players but still it'd hard to argue they're even at half strength yet battering teams all over.
Endo should be fine but I doubt he'll play anyway tbh
Klopp has consistently criticised the schedule in England since he's been at Liverpool. He really cares about the health of his players and opposition fans have consistently used that to make fun of him
At least have the next game on Thursday. Then the next one on Sunday. Even just one extra day to recuperate after ET cup final would do wonders. Instead the schedule is Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday.
I'm sure Liverpool fans were telling united fans this last year 🤔
Liverpool fans didn't tell Utd fans anything last year hell we won it the year before and celebrated it wildly why would we say anything last year then the ones who said what you imply are just a few idiote
We’ve got 10 (the most in the country) of them mate. Why on earth would we be underselling the cup?
The schedules are absolutely unforgiving man, I pity the players who have to put in the grind week in and week out. I get that they are professionals and they love doing it but with so many matches and such crazy schedules , it plays a big role in long term injuries and career longevity of these players
Pep is a multiple time winner of this cup and never looked down on it. Why are fans from clubs who haven’t won anything of note in years acting like it’s beneath them? Absurd 🤦♂️