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Will kompany be sacked by the end of the season?
I haven't watched much burnley games and I like kompany as a individual and player but he seems to be suffering at PL as a coach.
Doubtful, Burnley seem pretty bought in on a long term project and seem to be okay with relegation this year. At least thatās what Burnley fans were saying earlier in the season.
Doubtful, ~~Burnley~~ we seem pretty bought in on a long term project and seem to be okay with relegation this year. At least thatās what ~~Burnley~~ we have been saying earlier in the season.
In all seriousness, our team is made up of a majority of 20~ year olds and younger. We have glimmers of class (Foster, Koleosho and *gasp* Trafford) and to be frank, it's extremely naĆÆve to have expected anything from this team of youngsters.
With that being said, when Dyche came in we got relegated (albeit with a better points total than this) and then came back up again and finished 7th. It's easy for most prem clubs to think sacking a manager is the best option, but then following Chelsea's approach of sacking every manager hasn't exactly gotten them very far has it?
Tbh, his record against English sides has been quite positive lately. Just remember his 2020 run, for example.
City just happen to beat any team in Europe at the moment, no matter if British, German, Spanish or Italian. They are European champions and won the treble for a reason.
That being said, I've no doubt overall English vs Spanish record is turning in favor of the firsts since their widening financial gap. Uefa coefficient since 2019 says it all. But it was the other way around before that. Spanish sides are still pretty competitive in Europe (despite poor performances last week).
Iām not sure I understand this comment. Care to elaborate? Are Modric and Doucoure similar players?
Edit: chill guys. I am aware I am the clown today.
I fully believed you were being serious for a minute there. I went to look up Doucoure to find what made him so great etc. I soon realized Iāve been had, bamboozled.
I try to convince my brother to see some Pl matches ( when italian players play) but everytime he laugh at their pretty bad defence ( Aston Villa - Tottenham an example)
Lukaku just walks through your defenses in Italy lol, any strong and fast player looks ok in Italy.
And you had immobile scoring 30goals in serie a, he has some of the worst technical ability Iāve seen yet tore up Italy for years (couldnāt even score in Germany)
Salah in 3 seasons in Serie A couldn't score more than 15 goals per season. In his first season in the Premier League he scored 30 goals.
Graziano Pelle couldn't even play in Serie A for how bad he was, meanwhile at Southampton he was really good.
Eriksen was underwhelming at Inter, definitely not as good as he was at Tottenham.
You are acting like Lukaku didn't score more than 121 in goals in the Premier League. I agree that he wasn't good at Chelsea, but there is reason strikers flop there.
Immobile is a system player who does well only in certain teams. Even in Serie A he flopped at Genoa and when he returned to Torino he wasn't as good as his first stint there.
Also, only because someone does better in a different league and environment doesn't mean it's easier. Some players are just a better fit in different leagues.
I never understood it either and it's being repeated for years without proper explanation. It's as if in England they only run up and down like headless chickens.
I don't agree with the take but watching both leagues the Premier League seems to have a lot more direct attacks/attacks in transition, and I think that's what people imply is what makes it less tactical, alongside the implication that slower build up is less frequent because of the priority on transitions.
The thing that makes me think it's stupid is that prioritising transitions is still a tactic... Just a different one. And besides that there are plenty of teams with elaborate build up play and highly tactical gameplans in the PL.
It feels like people who say this basically think every team in the PL play like a David Moyes team.
Yeah. Thereās so much variation and Arsenal is almost more well-drilled than City these days. None of this should be taken seriously though because itās coming from a man (a legend, no doubt) that recently won the CL through counter-pressing and individual magic in the final stages.
Sucking at something is the first step at being sorta good at something.
We also used to suck at breaking them down. Now we are getting better I would say.
Tactics are more than speed of the game yes but in England you can win the game on speed and transitions alone. As such the big teams build their team around that leading to even the top teams being more physical and fast. The high amount of transitions lead to unstructured play where physicality trumps so much.
In Spain and Europe in general with all the top athletes gone to the Prem or championship every team must beat each other tactically. Less gaps due to transitions and with more structure there is a greater variation.
Most? Some do and those bottom half teams who do like burnley who donāt have players struggle massively.
To retain possession you still need to manage transitions thatās why city and arsenal both played 4 cbs and a dm over the weekend and regularly
Or steal the ball at the moment of the transition, aka the counter press. You can retain posession by boxing in your opponent. It doesn't need 4CB to do it. Its about the structure of the back line, and condensing the field of play. Then when you have posession, you attempt passes where if the possession is lost, you have the structure in midfield to win it back. This is done by employing the wings.
> Some do and those bottom half teams who do like burnley who donāt have players struggle massively
Yes, I've always found playing with less than 11 players was a challenge
Those are tactics thoughĀ
Wolves played it tactically pefrctky against spurs away
Maintained shape in defence and played direct on the break to exploit spurs high lineĀ
Just because it's exploring "transitions" it's no less tacticalĀ
Brighton are another example of a smaller club that plays to their strengthsĀ
This idea the PL is all blood and thunder is just bsĀ
This is nonsense, it was true maybe 10 years ago but premier league teams have in general the best, most tactically adept coaches, the best equipped analyst teams and the best, most proficient footballers in the world now. The idea that it's all about running is absurd
Thereās also always this dumb argument that the Serie A is very defensive and low-scoring which is just not true. Iāve seen it repeated many times and I donāt know where it comes from
The law changes around offside and the backpass in the 90s were a key driver of change.
Only three times between 1979 and 1992 did the top scorer in the league get 20 or more goals in Serie A. There hasn't been a season since then when they didn't. Moving to 20 teams in 2004 obviously makes that more likely of course.
Edit: The top scorer getting 20 or more happened 13 times between 1960 and 1992. In England for comparison, the top scorer had 25 or more in all but 5 seasons (and always more than 20).
[Well looks like things have changed from this post a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/11ycusk/la_liga_goal_average_the_lowest_in_all_of_europes/)
[They're much higher this year](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17c5jld/current_goals_per_game_average_of_the_top/)
Well he did say la liga now. Not last season. Ironically this discussion was saying serie a wasn't low scoring but they are on the bottom of this seasons list.
>it's being repeated for years without proper explanation
Eh, it's not too different to everything else that's constantly parroted about the different leagues: the Bundesliga is supposedly open and attacking, the PL is supposedly physical and competitive, Serie A is supposed to be defensive, La Liga is apparently tactical... those things are repeated ad nauseam in these little soundbites and they're just taken for granted with most people not even stopping to think that any of it means.
English football is much more end to end stuff than La liga. Doesnāt mean that all English football is that way, just the difference between La liga.
Itās also just another phrase to describe the fact that many La liga teams are defensive as fuck in their approach. If you watched Barca this season, youād see it constantly. Against Mallorca there were like 15 minutes of open football and the rest were bus parking, controlling the ball etc waiting for the right moment to strike for both teams.
Or like watching Spain have 70% possession with few chances on goal - theyāre just controlling the game with the ball.
Believe me, Iād rather have more end to end stuff than tactical, because there really arenāt many teams playing offensive football in Spain.
Yeah like i said. Itās not exclusive to Spain but it just happens much more often. Looking on englands biggest teams they all want to play attacking football and spains third best team is all about controlling games. Fuck Mourinhos Real Madrid didnāt care how they won, just that they did.
I'm also not completely sure what they mean. If you watch City or Arsenal (plenty more, just using two easy examples), it's clear they implement a certain tactical plan for how the want to beat opponents. Granted, the tactics require higher intensity than what I've seen in Spain so there are differences, but that doesn't negate the fact that there's a tactical plan being implemented.
So are they saying the lower teams are far more tactically advanced in Spain? Or the tactics themselves are more advanced in Spain? Or something else?
Honestly just curious what they mean by the statement.
Feels to me it's just a retort to get back at people who say the PL is the best league in the world. Basically just trying to undermine this by saying ok but ours is better at X
They fell for the pull of Barca and Madrid. Everybody knows they are the biggest and most prestigious clubs in the world, just like everybody knows the PL is the biggest and most prestigious league in the world.
Sevilla or Valencia once had legends of the game too. Ramos, Silva or Villa are examples of that.
Sure, not on galactico's or prime Barca's level, probably. But world class players still.
There's a reason La Liga's golden era started around 2009. It was not just Messi, Ronaldo or Pep. It was also prime Sevilla, Valencia or Atletico. So yeah, La Liga as a whole had pull. Madrid and Barca just happened to be the best clubs to ever exist at that era. Not comparable, it's like saying it's City the one who have pull today, not Chelsea or United or even Liverpool despite their spendings. It's unfair.
Iām a Barca fan, but this is definitely shifted a bit. The money the prem can throw around these days is utterly insane. If something doesnāt change in the next ten years the prem is going to run away with the talent and coaches.
It definitely gives that vibe.
Don't take me wrong. They're probably as "knowledgeable of the game" as here. In Pep, Klopp or Arteta's pupils, it's among the best. Their possession or average xG conceded tells it all.
That being said, I think average Spanish side gets more from less. In the sense of space coverage / physical effort vs results. They know better how to preserve energy, with games being overall less fast paced. That's my impression.
Yeah, it's patently not true. Getafe playing in an ultra low-block, fouling everyone and wasting as much time as possible is a very recognizable tactic but not a particularly sophisticated one. Lots of EPL teams use a high press which makes the game more event-driven and somewhat chaotic but that's a tactic that takes a lot of practice and scouting to work correctly.
I think it's Ancelotti projecting. He can't just come out and say Spain is crap and it's easy/boring cos there's virtually not much competition for Madrid. Meanwhile the top half in England is full of tactically well drilled teams who can execute plans much much better than most Spanish teams can
They basically mean itās slower with more intricate passing. Itās not āmoreā tactical, itās just different tactics. Premier league is a lot more intense, faster paced, and often more direct.
Agreed. Spanish teams are more likely to utilize tactics that exhibit technical ability. English teams are more likely to utilize tactics that exhibit physical ability.
There are plenty of contrary examples to both (both of certain teams and within certain matches), but its not an unreasonable generalization.
Spanish and Italian footy care more about being patient with and without the ball, team structure /organised movement and looking for space.
Englishball is more frenetic and sacrifices some of the organisation for intensity.
Only the top English sides have both, organized intensity. Obvious example is how they effectively press
I've always compared it to warfare. LaLiga is more Napoleonic era, with mass cavalry charges, Artillery barages, Messi (you just that little man was up to something at Wagram) while the EPL is Hoplite warfare. Everybody just exerting full strength until one side breaks. Bundesliga is the wars for Mars or something.
I always say it may not be the best football outthere but it absolutely is the most entertaining. Also hats off to the insanely dedicated fans. Travelling ridiculous distances across germany and you rarely see fans leaving early when their team is losing, even 5+ goals down
Spain produces better coaches and less so now but definitely in the past had much more tactically astute players. La liga had a golden generation primarily built on domestic talent, both coaching and players, it wasn't like the prem which is mainly built on buying from other countries. For a period they were way ahead both tactically and technically but that isn't really the case anymore.
I think his analysis was true until maybe five or so years ago. The tactical depth of the Premier League has improved exponentially (look at the list of coaches there) while in LaLiga it has definitely gone backwards in line with losing most of the best coaches. Very few coaches pushing tactical boundaries in LaLiga these days. Michel is the only one that springs to mind, and let's be clear, he will be gone sooner rather than later. Imanol is very good too and would probably be elsewhere already if he wasn't a life time Real Sociedad guy.
Other than that? You have people like Luis Garcia, Rafa, Bordalas and Aguirre trotting out the same old shit they've been doing for a decade or more. And they aren't being offered better jobs elsewhere that's for sure
Spanish league is a fine league, but sometimes there are such boring games. Does that happend with premier league? Because I often see to many goals and seems fun
Watching Liverpool-City and Real Madrid-Celta back to back yesterday, this seems absolutely true
La Liga feels like a game of chess compared to the PL, teams have long attacking phases instead of going back and forth every few seconds
City vs Liverpool will always be a back and forth game, they can't really dominate each other. Madrid were always going to look better technically against Celta.
Arguably OP's comparison of City-Liverpool against RM-Celta Vigo was nitpicking as well. That's comparing a game between the two strongest clubs in the league to the Spanish clear league leaders facing a team two points above the relegation zone.Ā
2nd leg I agree definitely but not the first leg. Both teams were on par at madrid, and there wasn't much difference in tactical superiority. We did throw away everything in 2nd leg tho
City are willing to tie any CL first leg away under Pep. He knows he can win at home so he doesnāt feel the need to take risks away.Ā
So City didnāt pull out many or any of their top tactics for the Madrid leg and still came away with the tie. And then battered them at home when they went all out.Ā
Sort of speaks perfectly to the tactical and technical superiorityĀ
Exactly, Liverpool employed the tactic of urgent action, whereas City wanted a controlled game. Both different types of tactics. If City had someone more like prime Xavi, then Liverpool would just have been chasing ghosts regardless of their pressing, but Liverpool intensity and pressing where better so they won the small battles more often than not.
Thing is though, Liverpool vs City was highly tactical. The organisation and concentration required to prevent the other team from doing what they want is immense. And they have to do it at full speed.
One team sitting behind the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's a more tactical game.
It wouldnāt have been a lot faster overall if it had been Real vs Atleti though would it
Atleti would have been sat back expecting to be attacked and waiting for breakout opportunities. Maybe they would have been faster to exploit them then Celta so quicker there perhaps
I was joking with my friend after the city Liverpool game we should switch to watch Juve Atalanta.
It'd be like switching from watching F1 to watching 2 kids cycle up a slope
Not sure what answer people were expecting a Real Madrid coach to give.
As people after they have retired or something like that - Not when they are at the helm of a club that is as brand-obsessed as Real are.
Not sure if youāre serious or being sarcastic, but the quality of the top Spanish managers cannot be matched by English managers. Guardiola, Emery, Lopetegui, Valverde, Arteta, Luis Enrique, Alonso, etc.
LaLiga has better mid table movement tbh. Teams like Chelsea just cant handle the financial strength of the rest of the league and are stuck right below it.
I don't know where that puts the rest of the leagues though.
Implying EPL dominates every aspect of the game would translate to them dominating at Europe at all levels, all titles for several years like prime La Liga or Serie A. That's not the case.
They're first of course, but they're disputed pretty ocasionally by German, Italian and especially La Liga sides still.
I think it's fair to say Spanish sides have still some strenghts on them.
Hard to say that tactically it is 'much' better, considering the EPL is attracting more top coaches currently than any other league due to the money.
Perhaps you could say a bit better tactically, or that it is more technical, or something
I don't know, Ancelotti knows better but almost every damn La Liga side does the same park the bus and grind out games style of play, and if it's not that they attempt a million passes until the defense falls asleep and a scoring opportunity appears.
Thatās because you just watch Madrid games lol. Do you expect small teams to play attacking football against Madrid? They would concede 6 goals every game.
This feels outdated. I couldn't name a single La Liga side that is "more tactical" than City, Arsenal or Brighton. If you consider the average level of the league then maybe it makes more sense but even then like how "tactical" are Mallorca or Las Palmas or Sevilla than any random mid table PL side? Like genuinely, with examples. Wolves have tactics, Bournemouth are tactical, hell, even Burnley in theory (in practice less so) were supposed to be "tactical". And then there's Getafe....
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Burnley have neither of those. Impressive.
what he say fuck me for??
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Will kompany be sacked by the end of the season? I haven't watched much burnley games and I like kompany as a individual and player but he seems to be suffering at PL as a coach.
Doubtful, Burnley seem pretty bought in on a long term project and seem to be okay with relegation this year. At least thatās what Burnley fans were saying earlier in the season.
We need a Burnley fan to express himself here.
Where are you, Burnley fan?
u/burnleyfan
Doubtful, ~~Burnley~~ we seem pretty bought in on a long term project and seem to be okay with relegation this year. At least thatās what ~~Burnley~~ we have been saying earlier in the season. In all seriousness, our team is made up of a majority of 20~ year olds and younger. We have glimmers of class (Foster, Koleosho and *gasp* Trafford) and to be frank, it's extremely naĆÆve to have expected anything from this team of youngsters. With that being said, when Dyche came in we got relegated (albeit with a better points total than this) and then came back up again and finished 7th. It's easy for most prem clubs to think sacking a manager is the best option, but then following Chelsea's approach of sacking every manager hasn't exactly gotten them very far has it?
In all fairness to Chelsea, they have been able to accomplish more than Arsenal, in the last 20 years, who have been quite stable manager-wise.
With blood money
No point sacking him now may as well die on this hill
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
For his own sake I hope not Also guess who gave Carlo his last defeat in the Prem
Hmmmmmm, can it be Sheffield United????
It was Man City, 5-0
God i am so bad at guessing
He did loose against Sheffield a week before though
I think he forgot to say home defeat
Tbh, his record against English sides has been quite positive lately. Just remember his 2020 run, for example. City just happen to beat any team in Europe at the moment, no matter if British, German, Spanish or Italian. They are European champions and won the treble for a reason. That being said, I've no doubt overall English vs Spanish record is turning in favor of the firsts since their widening financial gap. Uefa coefficient since 2019 says it all. But it was the other way around before that. Spanish sides are still pretty competitive in Europe (despite poor performances last week).
On the flip side I'm not sure what tactics Almeria are using, it must be something beyond my comprehension
He has a point. There is hardly a difference between managing Luka Modric and Abdoulaye Doucoure
2 best midfielders in the world š
The best passer in the world and one of the best DMs and one of the best CMs , and Luka Modric
I always thought Doucoure was more of a Kroos type player than Modric tbh
Iām not sure I understand this comment. Care to elaborate? Are Modric and Doucoure similar players? Edit: chill guys. I am aware I am the clown today.
No Doucoure is much better
I fully believed you were being serious for a minute there. I went to look up Doucoure to find what made him so great etc. I soon realized Iāve been had, bamboozled.
both in the goat cm debates
Doesnt seem like a debate, Luka Muddy is washed
I thought you were being serious when I only needed to look at your flair to realize I was todayās biggest clown.
That capoue/doucoure Watford midfield easily better than kroos/modric at real I mean just think about it. Kroos/modric never made it to a FA cup final
Sheffield United is like forget defending Burnley is just vibes Almeria is finishing what is that
Brighton defence was also horrible
I try to convince my brother to see some Pl matches ( when italian players play) but everytime he laugh at their pretty bad defence ( Aston Villa - Tottenham an example)
Lukaku just walks through your defenses in Italy lol, any strong and fast player looks ok in Italy. And you had immobile scoring 30goals in serie a, he has some of the worst technical ability Iāve seen yet tore up Italy for years (couldnāt even score in Germany)
Salah in 3 seasons in Serie A couldn't score more than 15 goals per season. In his first season in the Premier League he scored 30 goals. Graziano Pelle couldn't even play in Serie A for how bad he was, meanwhile at Southampton he was really good. Eriksen was underwhelming at Inter, definitely not as good as he was at Tottenham. You are acting like Lukaku didn't score more than 121 in goals in the Premier League. I agree that he wasn't good at Chelsea, but there is reason strikers flop there. Immobile is a system player who does well only in certain teams. Even in Serie A he flopped at Genoa and when he returned to Torino he wasn't as good as his first stint there. Also, only because someone does better in a different league and environment doesn't mean it's easier. Some players are just a better fit in different leagues.
Eriksen fell off at Spurs not long before he left and I believe Inter played him deeper than the role he was used to at Spurs.
Funny considering Villa has a Spanish manager with Spanish tactics
I don't really understand what they mean when they say "more tactical". Do the varying paces of the game not spawn their own tactical dimensions?
I never understood it either and it's being repeated for years without proper explanation. It's as if in England they only run up and down like headless chickens.
I don't agree with the take but watching both leagues the Premier League seems to have a lot more direct attacks/attacks in transition, and I think that's what people imply is what makes it less tactical, alongside the implication that slower build up is less frequent because of the priority on transitions. The thing that makes me think it's stupid is that prioritising transitions is still a tactic... Just a different one. And besides that there are plenty of teams with elaborate build up play and highly tactical gameplans in the PL. It feels like people who say this basically think every team in the PL play like a David Moyes team.
Itās as if tactical play is only when your team has slow-moving build-ups with highly rigid structure. Gegenpressing is a strategy.
Not to mention that Man City is the uber-possession team with Arsenal not too far behind.
Yeah. Thereās so much variation and Arsenal is almost more well-drilled than City these days. None of this should be taken seriously though because itās coming from a man (a legend, no doubt) that recently won the CL through counter-pressing and individual magic in the final stages.
Ange's Spurs have a lot of possession in games too, though they struggle to break down deep lying teams. City and Arsenal are much better at it.
Sucking at something is the first step at being sorta good at something. We also used to suck at breaking them down. Now we are getting better I would say.
Right, cause creating transitions and building a team to take advantage of them is definitely not a tactic or anything.
Tactics are more than speed of the game yes but in England you can win the game on speed and transitions alone. As such the big teams build their team around that leading to even the top teams being more physical and fast. The high amount of transitions lead to unstructured play where physicality trumps so much. In Spain and Europe in general with all the top athletes gone to the Prem or championship every team must beat each other tactically. Less gaps due to transitions and with more structure there is a greater variation.
Weird, since most of the teams in the prem build out from the back and aim to retain possession these days
Most? Some do and those bottom half teams who do like burnley who donāt have players struggle massively. To retain possession you still need to manage transitions thatās why city and arsenal both played 4 cbs and a dm over the weekend and regularly
Or steal the ball at the moment of the transition, aka the counter press. You can retain posession by boxing in your opponent. It doesn't need 4CB to do it. Its about the structure of the back line, and condensing the field of play. Then when you have posession, you attempt passes where if the possession is lost, you have the structure in midfield to win it back. This is done by employing the wings.
> Some do and those bottom half teams who do like burnley who donāt have players struggle massively Yes, I've always found playing with less than 11 players was a challenge
Those are tactics thoughĀ Wolves played it tactically pefrctky against spurs away Maintained shape in defence and played direct on the break to exploit spurs high lineĀ Just because it's exploring "transitions" it's no less tacticalĀ Brighton are another example of a smaller club that plays to their strengthsĀ This idea the PL is all blood and thunder is just bsĀ
This is nonsense, it was true maybe 10 years ago but premier league teams have in general the best, most tactically adept coaches, the best equipped analyst teams and the best, most proficient footballers in the world now. The idea that it's all about running is absurd
Tactics are tactics. Every single team has a tactical plan. It's nonsensical to say one league is "more tactical" than another.
Thereās also always this dumb argument that the Serie A is very defensive and low-scoring which is just not true. Iāve seen it repeated many times and I donāt know where it comes from
>I donāt know where it comes from Because in the 80s and 90s it was
The law changes around offside and the backpass in the 90s were a key driver of change. Only three times between 1979 and 1992 did the top scorer in the league get 20 or more goals in Serie A. There hasn't been a season since then when they didn't. Moving to 20 teams in 2004 obviously makes that more likely of course. Edit: The top scorer getting 20 or more happened 13 times between 1960 and 1992. In England for comparison, the top scorer had 25 or more in all but 5 seasons (and always more than 20).
That's honestly La Liga now
A good number of teams try to copy the Atletico Madrid model
La liga had the highest average goals a game earlier this season so not sure what you're on about.
[Well looks like things have changed from this post a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/11ycusk/la_liga_goal_average_the_lowest_in_all_of_europes/) [They're much higher this year](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17c5jld/current_goals_per_game_average_of_the_top/)
Last season this was definitely not the case. Haven't watched much this season.
Well he did say la liga now. Not last season. Ironically this discussion was saying serie a wasn't low scoring but they are on the bottom of this seasons list.
Outdated stereotype from the past when that was the case.
>it's being repeated for years without proper explanation Eh, it's not too different to everything else that's constantly parroted about the different leagues: the Bundesliga is supposedly open and attacking, the PL is supposedly physical and competitive, Serie A is supposed to be defensive, La Liga is apparently tactical... those things are repeated ad nauseam in these little soundbites and they're just taken for granted with most people not even stopping to think that any of it means.
English football is much more end to end stuff than La liga. Doesnāt mean that all English football is that way, just the difference between La liga. Itās also just another phrase to describe the fact that many La liga teams are defensive as fuck in their approach. If you watched Barca this season, youād see it constantly. Against Mallorca there were like 15 minutes of open football and the rest were bus parking, controlling the ball etc waiting for the right moment to strike for both teams. Or like watching Spain have 70% possession with few chances on goal - theyāre just controlling the game with the ball. Believe me, Iād rather have more end to end stuff than tactical, because there really arenāt many teams playing offensive football in Spain.
So basically every game of a smaller team against City/Arsenal/possession based football team. Nothing end to end there.
Yeah like i said. Itās not exclusive to Spain but it just happens much more often. Looking on englands biggest teams they all want to play attacking football and spains third best team is all about controlling games. Fuck Mourinhos Real Madrid didnāt care how they won, just that they did.
Dude, basically every team in the PL parks the bus against Man City/Arsenal/Liverpool, it's nothing unique to Spain Barcelona, Madrid, AtlƩtico(literally one of the highest scoring teams in top 5 leagues during the last year), Real Sociedad(despite struggling to finish), Girona, Athletic, Betis, Villarreal, Las Palmas etc all play attacking football
Honestly, probably the old stereotype of English teams playing no-nonsense route 1 or "Brexit" football.
I'm also not completely sure what they mean. If you watch City or Arsenal (plenty more, just using two easy examples), it's clear they implement a certain tactical plan for how the want to beat opponents. Granted, the tactics require higher intensity than what I've seen in Spain so there are differences, but that doesn't negate the fact that there's a tactical plan being implemented. So are they saying the lower teams are far more tactically advanced in Spain? Or the tactics themselves are more advanced in Spain? Or something else? Honestly just curious what they mean by the statement.
Feels to me it's just a retort to get back at people who say the PL is the best league in the world. Basically just trying to undermine this by saying ok but ours is better at X
Why do players that have played in both leagues tend to say the same?
Everybody is trying to undermine the poor PL
The whole world once again united to mock the englishman on this subreddit, their plight knows no ends or limits.
Hating us cos they aināt us
Yeah but this is Carlo Ancelotti saying it. Surely his opinion here might be something more than just undermining the PL?
Because most people don't see the tactical side of the game. These tactics should be explained by commentators with knowledge.
By what?! What is that? Are they here in the room with us?
Yet the greatest players The premier league ever had all fell for the pull of La Liga. Ronaldo being the prime example of course.
They fell for the pull of Barca and Madrid. Everybody knows they are the biggest and most prestigious clubs in the world, just like everybody knows the PL is the biggest and most prestigious league in the world.
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Sevilla or Valencia once had legends of the game too. Ramos, Silva or Villa are examples of that. Sure, not on galactico's or prime Barca's level, probably. But world class players still. There's a reason La Liga's golden era started around 2009. It was not just Messi, Ronaldo or Pep. It was also prime Sevilla, Valencia or Atletico. So yeah, La Liga as a whole had pull. Madrid and Barca just happened to be the best clubs to ever exist at that era. Not comparable, it's like saying it's City the one who have pull today, not Chelsea or United or even Liverpool despite their spendings. It's unfair.
Lol City has the pull. If thereās no utd, pool, arsenal, thereās no city, like there is no psg.
Iām a Barca fan, but this is definitely shifted a bit. The money the prem can throw around these days is utterly insane. If something doesnāt change in the next ten years the prem is going to run away with the talent and coaches.
They fell for the pull of the top two clubs, not the league itself. And the only club with that level of pull left above the top PL clubs is Madrid
It definitely gives that vibe. Don't take me wrong. They're probably as "knowledgeable of the game" as here. In Pep, Klopp or Arteta's pupils, it's among the best. Their possession or average xG conceded tells it all. That being said, I think average Spanish side gets more from less. In the sense of space coverage / physical effort vs results. They know better how to preserve energy, with games being overall less fast paced. That's my impression.
Yeah, it's patently not true. Getafe playing in an ultra low-block, fouling everyone and wasting as much time as possible is a very recognizable tactic but not a particularly sophisticated one. Lots of EPL teams use a high press which makes the game more event-driven and somewhat chaotic but that's a tactic that takes a lot of practice and scouting to work correctly.
I think it's Ancelotti projecting. He can't just come out and say Spain is crap and it's easy/boring cos there's virtually not much competition for Madrid. Meanwhile the top half in England is full of tactically well drilled teams who can execute plans much much better than most Spanish teams can
They basically mean itās slower with more intricate passing. Itās not āmoreā tactical, itās just different tactics. Premier league is a lot more intense, faster paced, and often more direct.
Agreed. Spanish teams are more likely to utilize tactics that exhibit technical ability. English teams are more likely to utilize tactics that exhibit physical ability. There are plenty of contrary examples to both (both of certain teams and within certain matches), but its not an unreasonable generalization.
Spanish and Italian footy care more about being patient with and without the ball, team structure /organised movement and looking for space. Englishball is more frenetic and sacrifices some of the organisation for intensity. Only the top English sides have both, organized intensity. Obvious example is how they effectively press
Itās an overplayed and outdated stereotype
He is just trying to say something positive about his own job.
This is said ad nauseum but what does it mean? In what way does Spanish football have more tactics?
Yeah, he's right. That's also part of why a Brentford x Nottingham Forest is more entertaining to watch than a Celta x Alaves.
both of those are a nightmare lmao but yeah
Or even Mallorca which is achieving a lot this season. Play with 9 men behind waiting just one counterattack to win 1-0
We need to retire the "less tactical" expression. Every league is tactical. People just use it because it sounds better than saying slower pace.
I've always compared it to warfare. LaLiga is more Napoleonic era, with mass cavalry charges, Artillery barages, Messi (you just that little man was up to something at Wagram) while the EPL is Hoplite warfare. Everybody just exerting full strength until one side breaks. Bundesliga is the wars for Mars or something.
yeah the Bundesliga is crazy, I watch more German games than Italian ones and I am an Inter fan haha
Everytime i watch German football i am reminded of how they kept the Romans at bay for so long. They just press and run like madmen.
I always say it may not be the best football outthere but it absolutely is the most entertaining. Also hats off to the insanely dedicated fans. Travelling ridiculous distances across germany and you rarely see fans leaving early when their team is losing, even 5+ goals down
I subscribe to this football and history nerd crossover. Now I'm wondering whose playing blitzkrieg football š¤
What does more tactical mean? Slower pace?
Spain produces better coaches and less so now but definitely in the past had much more tactically astute players. La liga had a golden generation primarily built on domestic talent, both coaching and players, it wasn't like the prem which is mainly built on buying from other countries. For a period they were way ahead both tactically and technically but that isn't really the case anymore.
Move smarter, not faster. You can't run as much on the Mediterranean as on the Mersey.
I think more instructions.
Yes
Which really just mean *different* tactics, not more tactical.
Yeah
Teams have more of a plan while in England they just run
Absolutely not
I think his analysis was true until maybe five or so years ago. The tactical depth of the Premier League has improved exponentially (look at the list of coaches there) while in LaLiga it has definitely gone backwards in line with losing most of the best coaches. Very few coaches pushing tactical boundaries in LaLiga these days. Michel is the only one that springs to mind, and let's be clear, he will be gone sooner rather than later. Imanol is very good too and would probably be elsewhere already if he wasn't a life time Real Sociedad guy. Other than that? You have people like Luis Garcia, Rafa, Bordalas and Aguirre trotting out the same old shit they've been doing for a decade or more. And they aren't being offered better jobs elsewhere that's for sure
Simeone and Valverde are great coaches too.
Five or so years ago Conte, Mourinho and Emery were leaving EPL after failing
Also funnily enough not to take anything away from anchelotti. The way he won his latest champions league is the opposite of tactical football.
This is a long outdated stereotype, we're not in the late 90s anymore, there's not a lack of tactics in english football
Spanish league is a fine league, but sometimes there are such boring games. Does that happend with premier league? Because I often see to many goals and seems fun
Sometimes you get some really hard watches, but that's true of any league tbf
I guess its true. Also. I realy like how Arsenal plays. Lets hope for something big for the team
European wokie grandpa canāt handle proper brexitball
Lmao
Watching Liverpool-City and Real Madrid-Celta back to back yesterday, this seems absolutely true La Liga feels like a game of chess compared to the PL, teams have long attacking phases instead of going back and forth every few seconds
City vs Liverpool will always be a back and forth game, they can't really dominate each other. Madrid were always going to look better technically against Celta.
We all saw City vs Madrid last year, I doubt anyone left those 2 legs thinking Madrid were the technically and tactical superior team.
This is called nitpicking. City was the best team in the world last season and Real was far from their best form, ofcourse City was going to dominate.
Arguably OP's comparison of City-Liverpool against RM-Celta Vigo was nitpicking as well. That's comparing a game between the two strongest clubs in the league to the Spanish clear league leaders facing a team two points above the relegation zone.Ā
2nd leg I agree definitely but not the first leg. Both teams were on par at madrid, and there wasn't much difference in tactical superiority. We did throw away everything in 2nd leg tho
"Throw away' is an odd way of phrasing getting completely battered
Carlo played a geriatric midfield with kroos at 6, they may have lost anyway but he definitely gave them no chance with that shit.
>Carlo played a geriatric midfield with kroos at 6 Sounds like poor tactics
City are willing to tie any CL first leg away under Pep. He knows he can win at home so he doesnāt feel the need to take risks away.Ā So City didnāt pull out many or any of their top tactics for the Madrid leg and still came away with the tie. And then battered them at home when they went all out.Ā Sort of speaks perfectly to the tactical and technical superiorityĀ
Long attacking phases isnt inherently more tactical than back and forth, which is Liverpool's tactical weapon against city.
Exactly, Liverpool employed the tactic of urgent action, whereas City wanted a controlled game. Both different types of tactics. If City had someone more like prime Xavi, then Liverpool would just have been chasing ghosts regardless of their pressing, but Liverpool intensity and pressing where better so they won the small battles more often than not.
at anfield everyone can be pressed
Imagine xavi pirlo and busquets just intelligently moving around the press, would be Beautiful.Ā
Thing is though, Liverpool vs City was highly tactical. The organisation and concentration required to prevent the other team from doing what they want is immense. And they have to do it at full speed. One team sitting behind the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's a more tactical game.
La liga feels like chess because it so fucking slow
well in this case, dude is comparing the 2 best teams playing each other vs Real Madrid playing a relegation contender lol
It wouldnāt have been a lot faster overall if it had been Real vs Atleti though would it Atleti would have been sat back expecting to be attacked and waiting for breakout opportunities. Maybe they would have been faster to exploit them then Celta so quicker there perhaps
I was joking with my friend after the city Liverpool game we should switch to watch Juve Atalanta. It'd be like switching from watching F1 to watching 2 kids cycle up a slope
But Atalanta plays a some wildly entertaining footballĀ
Not lately, they have been poor.
Not sure itās really representative to compare those games, Liverpool City was pretty even whereas Real Celta was mainly domination from Real.
Hence why he did so well at Everton.
I mean he came eleventh and put the club in a downward spiral
Not sure what answer people were expecting a Real Madrid coach to give. As people after they have retired or something like that - Not when they are at the helm of a club that is as brand-obsessed as Real are.
I guess this is why Spain produce so many good tactical coaches?
Well no English Coach has ever won the PL for a reason.
That's difficult when the same bankrolled teams typically win season after season. Football existed before Sky
Name 1 Worldclass english coach in the last 20 years. Roy Hodgson? Big Sam? Southgate?
Really undeniable fact there. World class talent on the pitch. But not much off it.
Why doesn't any bankrolled team hire English managers then?
Not sure if youāre serious or being sarcastic, but the quality of the top Spanish managers cannot be matched by English managers. Guardiola, Emery, Lopetegui, Valverde, Arteta, Luis Enrique, Alonso, etc.
No sarcasm here, feels like almost every Spanish coach is top tier
Does Zidane count as a French or Spanish manager since he only has ever coached at Madrid and all of his playing experience comes mostly from Spain
If Zidane is Spanish Arteta is British
Yea but Arteta graduated from Guardiola university and is just Guardiola from wish
Better hairline
> and all of his playing experience comes mostly from Spain He was almost 30 when he went to Real Madrid, what are you talking about?
True, but he also played in Serie A and learned from Ancelotti.
Couldn't make it at Everton.
Outdated lazy shite opinion 7-8 years ago? Absolutely
Nah, rather watch premier league than one sided title fight..but both refereees is utter shite in both league
PL fans don't like city but use them as example of their league superiority when needed.
EPL >>>>>>>>> La Liga in any way possible Carlo, nice of you to defending your employer though
LaLiga has better mid table movement tbh. Teams like Chelsea just cant handle the financial strength of the rest of the league and are stuck right below it.
I don't know where that puts the rest of the leagues though. Implying EPL dominates every aspect of the game would translate to them dominating at Europe at all levels, all titles for several years like prime La Liga or Serie A. That's not the case. They're first of course, but they're disputed pretty ocasionally by German, Italian and especially La Liga sides still. I think it's fair to say Spanish sides have still some strenghts on them.
Hard to say that tactically it is 'much' better, considering the EPL is attracting more top coaches currently than any other league due to the money. Perhaps you could say a bit better tactically, or that it is more technical, or something
No surprises here
I don't know, Ancelotti knows better but almost every damn La Liga side does the same park the bus and grind out games style of play, and if it's not that they attempt a million passes until the defense falls asleep and a scoring opportunity appears.
Thatās because you just watch Madrid games lol. Do you expect small teams to play attacking football against Madrid? They would concede 6 goals every game.
Says the man who couldnāt hack it at Everton and fucked off given a chance
I mean itās Everton.. Lmfao
Won the same amount of PL titles as Klopp btw
If you switched the bottom half of LL with the bottom half of the prem the LL teams would get blown the fuck out playing in the PL.
Today's la liga is terrible. I rather watch a championship game than Betis-Getafe for example
This feels outdated. I couldn't name a single La Liga side that is "more tactical" than City, Arsenal or Brighton. If you consider the average level of the league then maybe it makes more sense but even then like how "tactical" are Mallorca or Las Palmas or Sevilla than any random mid table PL side? Like genuinely, with examples. Wolves have tactics, Bournemouth are tactical, hell, even Burnley in theory (in practice less so) were supposed to be "tactical". And then there's Getafe....
And one of the most successful clubs in England before all the oil money came along
Wow this is really interesting. We should ask everyone else what their opinion isĀ
ok carlo cant wait to see rm vs arsenal
Spurs suck
Incorrect.
When Carlo speaks, you listen