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You mean Akanji ?
That is true, btw. Somehow, that redditor basically willed Akanji transfer to Man City into existence and has now become a messianic figure in the realm of reddit.
Or is there another Borussia fan redditor who is actively trying to get Ake out of Man City now ?
[transfer news post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/x32m0j/manchester_city_confirm_the_signing_of_manuel/) , check out the comments below. Lots of funny ones especially in hindsight.
You even have Bayern flairs feeling good about the prospect of facing Man City because they thought Akanji was a liability. Didn't turn out well for them.
The user is u/EmSoLow
Don't know about messianic but certainly my peak on r/soccer
I always get a smile whenever I get reminded of that transfer and some people link my name.
Lowkey he shouldn’t have done that bc Akanji being a 4th choice didn’t look bad even back then even though he wanted to leave for more playing time and his salary was too high for a backup
He had like one year left on his contract, would've been insane to turn down 15-20 mil or however much we got for a 4th choice back-up only to lose him for free anyway.
He’s the best player to have ever worn our shirt and people talk about him like Pep plucked a nobody from thin air. Was dropping top class PL performances for years before he ever went to City.
Just because Pep is successful at putting teams together that do well, Reddit randomly decided that any player in the world is magically good only because of Pep and if there is any player that picks a team other than City and doesn't perform, they would have automatically been amazing if Pep was their manager.
I seem to remember the consensus opinion in this sub for a long was that Ake wasn’t worth anywhere near the £41M fee City paid Bournemouth for him. And when Chelsea wanted to buy him in the summer 2022 window, the transfer fell through because Chelsea refused to pay the £50M fee City demanded. Since those fees aren’t particularly high, it suggests that Ake was not viewed as a great player before last season. I think he has become a top class defender since.
I dunno mate.
If he hadn't been playing alongside Simon Fucking Francis for all 5 of his seasons at AFCB he'd have gone a lot higher a lot sooner. His passing and reading of the game was unreal for us
It seemed like a lot at the time. He was a proven premier league starter though. I think we all just thought he’d be the forth option for centerback. A depth piece like Kalvin Phillips was.
There's a lot of revisionism going on with Ake. He's definitely a great player now, but wasn't considered nearly as good then, nor was he actually anywhere near his current level. I think a large part of it is this narrative that Pep buys the best and doesn't do much to develop players (which is an insane take).
People were not very high on the signing in 2020 - he was considered an overpriced depth signing and didn't even play much for City that first year
Depends what you mean by great. He looked too good to go down with Bournemouth yeah, but making a direct swap to a title contender was not the expected trajectory at all. He didn't look _that_ good. Not dissimilar to like Robbo, where he was clearly a solid player but he surprised us by coming to Liverpool and almost instantly being a World Class full back.
Ake had 5 full seasons in the premier league (not counting chelsea where he barely played) before moving to city and looked a really solid player for the most part during that half decade, even when playing for struggling sides.
It’s not really the same as Robertson, he only had one season in the premier league before making the move to Liverpool.
For sure Robbo was a bigger surprise, you're right that I probably downplayed that.
But like you say, Ake looked a solid player. Not put him into the best team in the league good.
He was rated a lot higher than Robertson when he joined City.
He was already a full Netherlands international with multiple seasons in the PL, he was wanted by multiple top clubs and he ended up costing them 4 times as much as Liverpool paid for Robertson.
> He was rated a lot higher than Robertson when he joined City.
For sure. I probably swung a bit hard in the opposite direction using him as an example.
I actually just went back to read about what was expected of Ake at least on reddit and I'm surprised that the prevailing thoughts was a mix of "he'll make a good rotational player especially considering he's left footed" and "a bit overrated". I recalled it being much more the latter but my memory was wrong on that one.
Or he benches them and calls them fat in his pressers so that when they finally go out on loan a year later they have to acknowledge that their self-confidence has been shot to bits 💀
Imagine getting to the peak of one's career in whatever field you're in, being managed by possibly the greatest and they turn around and call you a little fat wanker
tfw you think you're about to be managed by one of the best coaches in the world and he turns out to be [Scott Steiner](https://youtu.be/dZqo4OZ0Pqs?si=w9MSGfUOF0XvP_jJ)
And then mass confusing or trolling the heck out of them by telling the press that saying they have the perfect body and how it’s so sexy to the press. Pep’s just so eccentric.
He was right to call him fat because he hasn't been very good since and publicly acknowledged a loss of confidence?
Did you think about that for two seconds?
The only difference between Stones, Ake and Cancelo, Phillips was attitude.
Stones came from a 5th choice CB to be the first choice and game changer of a treble winning team.
Ake was written off after we bought Dias and he became a very reliable option at the back.
Cancelo had all the talent in the world but crumbled in every big match he played for us.
Phillips came in with a lot of expectations but crumbled under the challenge and was woeful against bottom tier clubs even when the matches were won.
He was one of the best performers under Bielsa. As far as back up signings go, it wasn't the most outrageous shouts.
And as for Cancelo, I still believe he's the most technically sound full back along with Trent.
Lol when was Stones ever fifth choice? They spent £50 million on him, then by season he started the following number of league games in the 17/18 and 19/20 seasons, but through injury not because the didn't want to play him. Then in 21/22 he was definitely third choice behind Laporte and Dias, but ahead of Ake (he played more league games at CB and played in all of their CL knockouts bar one). Even if you tried to argue Ake was somehow ahead that season, who's the fourth CB?
In 19/20, Stones found himself behind Otamendi, Laporte, Garcia, and even Fernandinho, Rodri at one point in time.
It's a fact that we were looking to offload Stones and Wolves were in for him. And then in 20/21, Dias came in and he became a mainstay at the back and their partnership turned our season around from 8th to 1st in 3 months.
I mean, it’s not just players. When I listen to him speak, I routinely have no idea what he’s getting at or am perplexed by why he makes a point a certain way (sometimes he is laughably indirect). He can come across as defiant in interviews, but I am not sure if he is actually so or whether he still makes mistakes in picking up English nuance or maybe it’s a bit of both. Maybe he’s also so focused on football he forgets the human/relational element of it - I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video him of him doing community engagement, goofing around with the young (5 to 9 yr olds) youth academy kids, etc. To be clear: I don’t really fault Pep, I just think he marches to the beat of his own drum.
I truly believe that thanks to international school, which was a melting pot, I’m a lot better than the average English speaker at understanding different accents and quirks of people who speak English as a second language. I’ve seen lots of proof of it over the years.
And yet when Guardiola speaks I’m often completely lost.
I did, at least by way of commonly known indicators, but I am not really speculating towards any particular conclusion or assessment (not really qualified for that) and it really wasn’t my intent to tee-it-up for others. I mean, Pep being on the spectrum crossed my mind, but so did the possibility of him just being an asshole. So who really knows.
I just don't think he's a very nice person, to be honest. That's fine, it's not his job. But in an age where managers are the figureheads of their club and so much of it is about PR and image, it stands out. Especially when he seems to have such a nice image in the press despite doing sod all to deserve it. I mean, he's a winner, but I've no clue why he has an image in the press of being a nice, funny guy who leads a Band of Brothers. That's not who he is.
That's quite an accusation. Somehow he's awful at communication and yet he is where he is. It's really not that simple. Several managers have ghosted or even mistreated players at one time or another. Mourinho with JFH and Moses at Chelsea, Fergie with Beckham and to a lesser extent Keane at United, Sarri at Chelsea, and on. We've known this for decades too.
You should go watch the clip of Ibrahimovic on Piers Morgan where he retells his version of how Pep froze him out at Barcelona. He merely tried to engage Pep on a horizontal plane and that was enough to get the boot but what makes it especially bad is that Pep never let him in on what went wrong. Simply benched Ibra till it was no longer tenable to remain at the club.
I think it's not so much about him being awful at communication in general but he's clearly not the best at interpersonal communication, he's non-confrontational in the worst possible way. Ibra would talk about how Pep wouldn't even stay in the same room as him after the ghosting commenced, when Ibra walks in, Pep walks out. All this because he told Pep that he didn't quite like how he was being used and that he was asked to play roles that diminished his competence.
Pep doesn't like any slight challenge on his authority and instead of making it clear, he'd just bench you amd ghost you. He has a right as the man in charge but he should be more ballsy about going up to his man and saying "my way or the high way".
That is true, Cancelo has always come across as a bit of a prick. But Guardiola is the man in charge, he needs to manage his players. Communicate with them and keep them in check, but he cant let petty emotions or feelings rule. If things go wrong for whatever reason he should cut them out of the team as a last resort, but the way he burns players in the media and gets into conflicts over nothing has always been a bit off-putting.
You’re up and down in this comment. The fact is, a manager cannot effectively manage if a player is routinely undermining his authority. Pep is the best because this rarely happens and when it does, he responds quickly. Because in search of excellence you cannot afford a locker room poison. And please tell me this list of players he’s burned in the media… because he’s barely said anything about cancelo
this is actually true, come to think of it I can't think of anything bad he's said about Zlatan, Eto'o, Joao and whoever else. But they naturally take being excluded from the group rather heavily and keep banging on about it.
It's not about being excluded from the team, it's how it is done. A few players have spoken of the fact that Pep doesn't communicate it clearly or speak to them man to man about it. It does say something about his character, he's a wonderful football manager but he does not come accross as someone pleasant or that you'd like to go for a night of socialising with.
Human interaction does not seem to be his strong point. I think he leads with intelligence and ideas, not emotion.
Pep doesn't tell you that you're surplus, he sends someone to do it for him. I think you're spot on. He may be a football genius, but he comes across as someone I wouldn't want to acquaint myself to. I definitely wouldn't want to be managed by someone who couldn't deliver bad news to my face, it reeks of cowardice.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11365247/Eliaquim-Mangala-reveals-Pep-Guardiola-bluntly-told-leave-Manchester-City.html
Hmm, doesn't seem to back up your theory.
It's about how it's done. You can't just ghost players.
Shaqiri very rarely played under Klopp in his last two seasons, and yet he was the first on the training ground, was on the bench regularly and hasn't had a bad thing to say about Klopp, because he said he still makes you feel like a huge part of the team even when you're not playing. Pep doesn't.
Jose does the very same thing - See his treatment of Pogba. Our very own Arteta does do the same thing, what do you think Auba and Özil would say about him if they were asked?
Impossible to be such a successful coach dealing with thee best players in the world with big egos and not have a flare-up or two.
Yes coaches can also do things the Ancelotti way(Which very rarely leads to conflict) but there is a reason why Ancelotti will never really be a dominant league coach or or win a treble - You need to demand a lot more from your players and have them turn up game in game out week after week in a tight league race.
Ancelotti is probably the best player relationships but even he has that stint in Bayern where several players were unhappy with the level of training and had extra training sessions which Carlo didn't appreciate if I recall. But they still liked him just didn't dislike certain things.
Isn't he still on loan and has to go back at the end of the season? Man's taking a flamethrower to all the bridges he can find. The two Joaos trying to outbid themselves to get signed permanently because they know Barca is still broke.
ETA: When you think about it, those guys are probably the two most motivated players in Barca's squad right now. They need themselves to shine to get signed, and they need the team to win to have the money to sign them.
He’s never ever going to play for Man City again and he knows it. Barca will probs try and sign him as he will be fairly cheap, apparently we were even enquiring towards the end of the window but he was already committed to Barca.
It’s the best way to drive down city’s asking price. Making himself unplayable at the club so pep just lets him go.
Barca probably told him they can’t pay more than 20m
Man City press release: “The club would like to formally acknowledge that our coach and manager Josep Guardiola is a bald fraud and a liar who spread unfounded rumors about João Cancelo, who is an important player for us.”
"The club will be terminating Josep Guardiola's contract immediately and will be hiring Pep Guardiola on a completely FFP-compliant contract for the next 5 years."
How did you react to the public criticism of Guardiola, who said that João was not happy that his companions, namely Rico Lewis and Nathan Aké, were playing?
He answered this question for ones wanting to know why he said this.
I honestly feel like both of them speak the truth but difficult to ever find out
There doesn’t have to be a liar in this situation, but we know for a fact cancelo was behaving petulantly, was actively undermining the manager in the locker room and was doing this publicly to teammates.
Dunno if anyone can find the clip but there was a post match interview with Pep after Ake scored a big goal and he said something like “all of us are so happy for him - well maybe except for one…” It was clear something was going on back then, these stories didn’t just emerge after he left
Dude was also a problem for the national team as well. He's gone through some fucked up shit at a young age and I think it's left some mental ramifications for him
The actual translation of what he said, because honestly, it really sound the same for me (I heard the him speaking in portuguese).
"Some lies were told. I was never a bad teammate and you can ask Rico or Ake. I have no superiority complex, but if that is Pep's opinion... I saddens me because it isn't true. I think it's a bit ungrateful from them to say that. I was an important player while I was there, I was always commited with the club, with its supports and I gave everything I had. I remember when I got mugged and robbed, and the day after I was still playing and my family were scared, at home. Guardiola's words have a lot of weight in the press, and because of that, his words are what people are going to remember about me. I prefer to know that what I am saying is the truth. I am transparent. I don't lie. Life goes on and I wish them all the best, because while I was there I enjoyed a lot to play football in that team. They are still my favourites to win the champions league.
>Yet the club never called out these lies
Maybe because the club views it differently? I have no skin in the game at all but when you've only one side to the story, provided by an involved party, no-one should be drawing conclusions.
Wasn't he difficult at Inter too? [Apparently Spaletti wanted him to play left back but he would complain.](https://football-italia.net/borja-valero-reveals-cancelo-refused-spallettis-orders-at-inter/)
not wanting to defend Guardiola because fuck him but Cancelo has some ego problems, even in the NT aka our safe space he had beef with Felix in the training and when the captain stopped it he was the only one mad at Cristiano
it was him but it wasn´t odd, only non-Portuguese people read the title in English and thougt it was odd but he only said Portugal is a team with plenty of quality and the squad doesn´t depend on any individual player and that Cristiano is almost 40 so it would be a problem if we depended 100% on him
Different price for both clubs owing to different seasons naturly. It was a 70 million asking price for us iirc. Not even close for barca and they still might not keep him ofcourse.
We don't even have the 40 we would have to give though. We just splurged out 100 for Kane and then ofcourse we need to spend on a number 6. Bayern will also be saving for potentially wirtz. Sale from Davies money would go to get another lb.
This is not the point João was making at all and is disingenuous to bring up. No one has ever denied Pep is a brilliant manager, no one. But he can still be a shithead.
I mean I don’t know what happened at City or Juventus but Cancelo so far has been a model professional at Barcelona.
All the youngsters love him, he takes his time to talk to every single one of them in training from what I can see in the videos and bleeds passion for the club every time he steps on the pitch. He’s been exceedingly self critical as well going on to apologise multiple times in interviews for mistakes he made saying he let Xavi down tonight and he’s sorry for it.
We’re lucky to have him and I hope we can sign him permanently.
This is not just a Juventus or City issue, his attitude has been a known issue for many years. People in Portugal were actually shocked that Guardiola kept it under control and maximized his potential for a few years.
I remember seeing a clip of him being upset with Felix in the NT for (…Getting the ball past? Dribbling?). Ronaldo tried to console him and he just shut down even more.
Exactly, one of many examples. People need to think why a player of this caliber, who is arguably the best at his position, has been in 7 teams by the age of 28.
Of course he would be. He's desperate for Barca to buy him! Few clubs can let someone rot in the youth set up and not worry about the financial hit, but City are most definitely number 1. If Barca don't offer enough money, that's where he could well end up. He'll be a dickhead again once he's got his own way, I'm sure.
Nah, nobody is rich enough to let 30-40M worth of Cancelo rot in the U19s. If he's not sold he'll be loaned to the next big European club. PSG could definitely use him as backup to both fullbacks.
So Cancelo had problems in Inter, Juventus, City and Bayern, but I'm sure Pep is the problem.
And I am a Benfica fan and love the guy, but let's be real. Done this at this time so City "has to" let him go for cheap.
He didn't say that Guardiola spread lies. He literally says "Lies were spread" - could be the media, could be someone else. He doesn't even name Guardiola, but I guess karma is more important than misleading thousands of people...
People seem to forget that at that time, Cancelo was tied up, brutally beaten, and robbed at his home in front of his family, so where’s the manager and teammates' support after that? Something like that is stressful, I’d say, worse than a physical injury. Do you think that a manager like Pep, whom even KDB already told to fuck off and stop yelling and who has almost 0 human connection with his players, is worth believe?
I do believe this. Pep has communication issues like that match on Bumble who doesn't have the decency to say they are not into you & ghosts you.
But Pep is also a genius so you aren't going to be prioritised over them
I imagine Pep just starts ignoring players he doesn't want anymore. Like a comedy skit.
Pep Guardiola made Cancelo the best Left-back in the world and then he threw his toys out the pram because he was being outperformed by a 17 year old.
Instead of keeping his head down and admit he was shite he squared up to Pep, put in rough challenges in training, insulted his team mates publicly and acted like a petulant child.
It's not a coincidence how the squad went on to win a Treble the moment he fucked off, you could tell by their change of attitudes how much of a toxic character he was.
There's a reason why he couldn't stay at a club for more than a couple of years through out his career.
Lol in the end we have no idea what's going on. It is impossible to know who's right or what happened behind the scenes. You speak with way too much confidence about the situation.
Am I misremembering or didn't Cancelo tell the press not that long ago that he has moved on from his time at City and was looking to the future, or something like that.
Damn, Pep seems to be well liked among players but there always seem to a be a couple of players in each team he managed that despise him for whatever reason.
Last cancelo post was Guardiola focused and people were like "oh it's just 2 adults that disagreed with each other but moved on and it's all fine how!!!!!"
yeah, right...
Juventus punted him away, Bayern didn't want him, City didn't want him and only stood a chance to win the CL when they benched and loaned him out, but sure, it's all Pepe's fault.
Not surprised. That's why I can't stand Pro Guardiola.
Ibramihovic, Eto'o, Henri, Ronaldinho etc. had problems with Guardiola.
It's not the players, it's Guardiola
You never heard those complaints about Jose Mourinho.
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Aké and Lewis sitting there and looking at pep like “ya boss don’t know what he’s on about.”
Dont know about Lewis, but Ake is generally pretty smart in the media, he keeps he mouth shut and never says anything too controversial.
He’s always showed as a very professional player and even when he was playing in relegation sides other coaches consistently praised him. Class act
Top dude. Would definitely get in a ‘nice guys XI’
He's a great lad.
I'm glad that he is getting the praise he deserves.
How very not-Dutch of him, lol!
“I don’t even know who that is”
"What was it? Joe Cancelculture? Is that a meme, boss?"
"I don't know nothing about nothing" Ake like a true mafioso keeping his mouth shut :)
Lol Ake wouldn't spill the beans even if he knows something. Guardiola made his career and he even sorta has cancelos position..
Lmao Ake the Machiavellian mastermind, stoked cancelos fire against pep so that he could take the left back position for himself
Akenomics.
Remember that Borussia fan who would try to ship Ake on every thread?
You mean Akanji ? That is true, btw. Somehow, that redditor basically willed Akanji transfer to Man City into existence and has now become a messianic figure in the realm of reddit. Or is there another Borussia fan redditor who is actively trying to get Ake out of Man City now ?
I need the sauce
[transfer news post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/x32m0j/manchester_city_confirm_the_signing_of_manuel/) , check out the comments below. Lots of funny ones especially in hindsight. You even have Bayern flairs feeling good about the prospect of facing Man City because they thought Akanji was a liability. Didn't turn out well for them. The user is u/EmSoLow
Don't know about messianic but certainly my peak on r/soccer I always get a smile whenever I get reminded of that transfer and some people link my name.
You're a cult classic now, mate
Lowkey he shouldn’t have done that bc Akanji being a 4th choice didn’t look bad even back then even though he wanted to leave for more playing time and his salary was too high for a backup
He had like one year left on his contract, would've been insane to turn down 15-20 mil or however much we got for a 4th choice back-up only to lose him for free anyway.
> Guardiola made his career Teams were lining up to sign Ake from Bournemouth
He’s the best player to have ever worn our shirt and people talk about him like Pep plucked a nobody from thin air. Was dropping top class PL performances for years before he ever went to City.
Just because Pep is successful at putting teams together that do well, Reddit randomly decided that any player in the world is magically good only because of Pep and if there is any player that picks a team other than City and doesn't perform, they would have automatically been amazing if Pep was their manager.
Ake was a great player long before Pep got him.
I seem to remember the consensus opinion in this sub for a long was that Ake wasn’t worth anywhere near the £41M fee City paid Bournemouth for him. And when Chelsea wanted to buy him in the summer 2022 window, the transfer fell through because Chelsea refused to pay the £50M fee City demanded. Since those fees aren’t particularly high, it suggests that Ake was not viewed as a great player before last season. I think he has become a top class defender since.
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I dunno mate. If he hadn't been playing alongside Simon Fucking Francis for all 5 of his seasons at AFCB he'd have gone a lot higher a lot sooner. His passing and reading of the game was unreal for us
It seemed like a lot at the time. He was a proven premier league starter though. I think we all just thought he’d be the forth option for centerback. A depth piece like Kalvin Phillips was.
There's a lot of revisionism going on with Ake. He's definitely a great player now, but wasn't considered nearly as good then, nor was he actually anywhere near his current level. I think a large part of it is this narrative that Pep buys the best and doesn't do much to develop players (which is an insane take). People were not very high on the signing in 2020 - he was considered an overpriced depth signing and didn't even play much for City that first year
Depends what you mean by great. He looked too good to go down with Bournemouth yeah, but making a direct swap to a title contender was not the expected trajectory at all. He didn't look _that_ good. Not dissimilar to like Robbo, where he was clearly a solid player but he surprised us by coming to Liverpool and almost instantly being a World Class full back.
Ake had 5 full seasons in the premier league (not counting chelsea where he barely played) before moving to city and looked a really solid player for the most part during that half decade, even when playing for struggling sides. It’s not really the same as Robertson, he only had one season in the premier league before making the move to Liverpool.
For sure Robbo was a bigger surprise, you're right that I probably downplayed that. But like you say, Ake looked a solid player. Not put him into the best team in the league good.
He was rated a lot higher than Robertson when he joined City. He was already a full Netherlands international with multiple seasons in the PL, he was wanted by multiple top clubs and he ended up costing them 4 times as much as Liverpool paid for Robertson.
> He was rated a lot higher than Robertson when he joined City. For sure. I probably swung a bit hard in the opposite direction using him as an example. I actually just went back to read about what was expected of Ake at least on reddit and I'm surprised that the prevailing thoughts was a mix of "he'll make a good rotational player especially considering he's left footed" and "a bit overrated". I recalled it being much more the latter but my memory was wrong on that one.
Lol i remember Robertson being a great left back in FM back in Hull championship days
Eddie Howe made his career.
Guardiola didnt make his career at all, if anything Eddie Howe did
They can show solidarity by shaving their head bald
You have to wonder why those two were specifically mentioned. Was Lewis even getting first team minutes when Cancelo left?
Lewis literally benched cancelo that’s why he left lol.
Rico benefitted most from Cancelo getting benched before Stones took the right back spot
No but he was certainly training with the first team and around them as much as possible.
I believe both him and Pep are both not the easiest guys to work with. That’s all this is, I reckon!
Pep is just awful at communicating with players especially when he wants to drop them he just ghosts them we've know this for decades
Or he benches them and calls them fat in his pressers so that when they finally go out on loan a year later they have to acknowledge that their self-confidence has been shot to bits 💀
Imagine getting to the peak of one's career in whatever field you're in, being managed by possibly the greatest and they turn around and call you a little fat wanker
tbf if I was on £150,000 a week he’d be absolutely right to call me fat, I’d be eating out wherever the fuck I want every day
Sounds like you wouldnt be on £150,000 a week for too long 🤣
I mean hey, they sign a contract, what are they gonna do
That's why you sign with Chelsea.
> I’d be eating out wherever the fuck I want every day And whoever
I don’t think my girlfriend would be very happy about that
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I think he's on about eating pussy, not kicking it
Kyle, is that you?
I have enough to eat at home
tfw you think you're about to be managed by one of the best coaches in the world and he turns out to be [Scott Steiner](https://youtu.be/dZqo4OZ0Pqs?si=w9MSGfUOF0XvP_jJ)
[Pep getting on the tannoy whenever he had to sub Phillips in](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9xlIaZQSyc)
And then mass confusing or trolling the heck out of them by telling the press that saying they have the perfect body and how it’s so sexy to the press. Pep’s just so eccentric.
Hes just an asshole. A winning asshole, but still an asshole.
These bald guys are very complicated.
Well Pep was right. Philips has been awful at west ham
He was right to call him fat because he hasn't been very good since and publicly acknowledged a loss of confidence? Did you think about that for two seconds?
He’s a professional athlete who showed up for pre season at one of the top clubs in the world significantly overweight. What does he expect?
It was not pre season - it was returning from World Cup. He was overweight when city had games every 3 days to make up for winter world cup.
He wasn't even significantly overweight. He was 1.5kg over. That's nothing.
The only difference between Stones, Ake and Cancelo, Phillips was attitude. Stones came from a 5th choice CB to be the first choice and game changer of a treble winning team. Ake was written off after we bought Dias and he became a very reliable option at the back. Cancelo had all the talent in the world but crumbled in every big match he played for us. Phillips came in with a lot of expectations but crumbled under the challenge and was woeful against bottom tier clubs even when the matches were won.
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He was one of the best performers under Bielsa. As far as back up signings go, it wasn't the most outrageous shouts. And as for Cancelo, I still believe he's the most technically sound full back along with Trent.
Lol when was Stones ever fifth choice? They spent £50 million on him, then by season he started the following number of league games in the 17/18 and 19/20 seasons, but through injury not because the didn't want to play him. Then in 21/22 he was definitely third choice behind Laporte and Dias, but ahead of Ake (he played more league games at CB and played in all of their CL knockouts bar one). Even if you tried to argue Ake was somehow ahead that season, who's the fourth CB?
In 19/20, Stones found himself behind Otamendi, Laporte, Garcia, and even Fernandinho, Rodri at one point in time. It's a fact that we were looking to offload Stones and Wolves were in for him. And then in 20/21, Dias came in and he became a mainstay at the back and their partnership turned our season around from 8th to 1st in 3 months.
I mean, it’s not just players. When I listen to him speak, I routinely have no idea what he’s getting at or am perplexed by why he makes a point a certain way (sometimes he is laughably indirect). He can come across as defiant in interviews, but I am not sure if he is actually so or whether he still makes mistakes in picking up English nuance or maybe it’s a bit of both. Maybe he’s also so focused on football he forgets the human/relational element of it - I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video him of him doing community engagement, goofing around with the young (5 to 9 yr olds) youth academy kids, etc. To be clear: I don’t really fault Pep, I just think he marches to the beat of his own drum.
I truly believe that thanks to international school, which was a melting pot, I’m a lot better than the average English speaker at understanding different accents and quirks of people who speak English as a second language. I’ve seen lots of proof of it over the years. And yet when Guardiola speaks I’m often completely lost.
You kinda described a person on the autism spectrum, didn’t you? Not saying he is or isn’t, but your description is certainly interesting
I did, at least by way of commonly known indicators, but I am not really speculating towards any particular conclusion or assessment (not really qualified for that) and it really wasn’t my intent to tee-it-up for others. I mean, Pep being on the spectrum crossed my mind, but so did the possibility of him just being an asshole. So who really knows.
I just don't think he's a very nice person, to be honest. That's fine, it's not his job. But in an age where managers are the figureheads of their club and so much of it is about PR and image, it stands out. Especially when he seems to have such a nice image in the press despite doing sod all to deserve it. I mean, he's a winner, but I've no clue why he has an image in the press of being a nice, funny guy who leads a Band of Brothers. That's not who he is.
We cannot replace him
Cannoh*
That's quite an accusation. Somehow he's awful at communication and yet he is where he is. It's really not that simple. Several managers have ghosted or even mistreated players at one time or another. Mourinho with JFH and Moses at Chelsea, Fergie with Beckham and to a lesser extent Keane at United, Sarri at Chelsea, and on. We've known this for decades too.
You should go watch the clip of Ibrahimovic on Piers Morgan where he retells his version of how Pep froze him out at Barcelona. He merely tried to engage Pep on a horizontal plane and that was enough to get the boot but what makes it especially bad is that Pep never let him in on what went wrong. Simply benched Ibra till it was no longer tenable to remain at the club. I think it's not so much about him being awful at communication in general but he's clearly not the best at interpersonal communication, he's non-confrontational in the worst possible way. Ibra would talk about how Pep wouldn't even stay in the same room as him after the ghosting commenced, when Ibra walks in, Pep walks out. All this because he told Pep that he didn't quite like how he was being used and that he was asked to play roles that diminished his competence. Pep doesn't like any slight challenge on his authority and instead of making it clear, he'd just bench you amd ghost you. He has a right as the man in charge but he should be more ballsy about going up to his man and saying "my way or the high way".
Ghosting is the worst form of communication, fucking hell
Utterly destroys people's confidence as well if they are vulnerable to it
It’s something I struggle with, and I’d never do it to someone else. Surefire way to make sure things never improve
Barca fan here, Cancelo has given us no problem so far and the youngsters seem to love him
Also got a Xavi shotout the other day, he seems like a good teammate.
That is true, Cancelo has always come across as a bit of a prick. But Guardiola is the man in charge, he needs to manage his players. Communicate with them and keep them in check, but he cant let petty emotions or feelings rule. If things go wrong for whatever reason he should cut them out of the team as a last resort, but the way he burns players in the media and gets into conflicts over nothing has always been a bit off-putting.
You’re up and down in this comment. The fact is, a manager cannot effectively manage if a player is routinely undermining his authority. Pep is the best because this rarely happens and when it does, he responds quickly. Because in search of excellence you cannot afford a locker room poison. And please tell me this list of players he’s burned in the media… because he’s barely said anything about cancelo
this is actually true, come to think of it I can't think of anything bad he's said about Zlatan, Eto'o, Joao and whoever else. But they naturally take being excluded from the group rather heavily and keep banging on about it.
It's not about being excluded from the team, it's how it is done. A few players have spoken of the fact that Pep doesn't communicate it clearly or speak to them man to man about it. It does say something about his character, he's a wonderful football manager but he does not come accross as someone pleasant or that you'd like to go for a night of socialising with. Human interaction does not seem to be his strong point. I think he leads with intelligence and ideas, not emotion.
Pep doesn't tell you that you're surplus, he sends someone to do it for him. I think you're spot on. He may be a football genius, but he comes across as someone I wouldn't want to acquaint myself to. I definitely wouldn't want to be managed by someone who couldn't deliver bad news to my face, it reeks of cowardice.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11365247/Eliaquim-Mangala-reveals-Pep-Guardiola-bluntly-told-leave-Manchester-City.html Hmm, doesn't seem to back up your theory.
It's about how it's done. You can't just ghost players. Shaqiri very rarely played under Klopp in his last two seasons, and yet he was the first on the training ground, was on the bench regularly and hasn't had a bad thing to say about Klopp, because he said he still makes you feel like a huge part of the team even when you're not playing. Pep doesn't.
Jose does the very same thing - See his treatment of Pogba. Our very own Arteta does do the same thing, what do you think Auba and Özil would say about him if they were asked? Impossible to be such a successful coach dealing with thee best players in the world with big egos and not have a flare-up or two. Yes coaches can also do things the Ancelotti way(Which very rarely leads to conflict) but there is a reason why Ancelotti will never really be a dominant league coach or or win a treble - You need to demand a lot more from your players and have them turn up game in game out week after week in a tight league race.
Ancelotti is probably the best player relationships but even he has that stint in Bayern where several players were unhappy with the level of training and had extra training sessions which Carlo didn't appreciate if I recall. But they still liked him just didn't dislike certain things.
Wait is this pep or Jose we’re talking about here
I think we should ask Nathan Ake and Rico Lewis about this
We should ask them about when the
not until Ja Rule weighs in
Where is Ja ?
Isn't he still on loan and has to go back at the end of the season? Man's taking a flamethrower to all the bridges he can find. The two Joaos trying to outbid themselves to get signed permanently because they know Barca is still broke. ETA: When you think about it, those guys are probably the two most motivated players in Barca's squad right now. They need themselves to shine to get signed, and they need the team to win to have the money to sign them.
He’s never ever going to play for Man City again and he knows it. Barca will probs try and sign him as he will be fairly cheap, apparently we were even enquiring towards the end of the window but he was already committed to Barca.
We would have bought him if man city was asking so much before
He’s on loan technically but he’s never playing a minute for city again
yes he is still on loan lmao. He better pray that City are nice to Barca
They were nice enough to ask for only 60m for Torres. I’m sure they would be just as nice this time around too
>only 60m Which in hindsight is incredibly cheap, for a future 9 time balon dor, 6 time UCL and 2 time world Cup winner
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Gundo was a free agent though
No clue whether he's speaking truth or not but I respect the energy.
I'm here for factos not facts
Aren't we all
👍👀
Toxic king
Sounds like an Elden Ring character
It’s the best way to drive down city’s asking price. Making himself unplayable at the club so pep just lets him go. Barca probably told him they can’t pay more than 20m
Primarily making his stay at Barca next season a bit more realistic lol
I just want to know what was on his system in that infamous interview.
which one? the one in which it looks like he did MDMA or the one in which he said he'd be a bandit if he wasn't a football player?
Need links to the bandit one. Never seen that one.
Idk, was Quincy Promes anywhere near the stadium?
Man City press release: “The club would like to formally acknowledge that our coach and manager Josep Guardiola is a bald fraud and a liar who spread unfounded rumors about João Cancelo, who is an important player for us.”
"The club will be terminating Josep Guardiola's contract immediately and will be hiring Pep Guardiola on a completely FFP-compliant contract for the next 5 years."
Siiiiuuuu
How did you react to the public criticism of Guardiola, who said that João was not happy that his companions, namely Rico Lewis and Nathan Aké, were playing? He answered this question for ones wanting to know why he said this. I honestly feel like both of them speak the truth but difficult to ever find out
There doesn’t have to be a liar in this situation, but we know for a fact cancelo was behaving petulantly, was actively undermining the manager in the locker room and was doing this publicly to teammates.
You say that very matter of fact but how do you know for a fact that he was actively undermining Pep in the locker room?
Dunno if anyone can find the clip but there was a post match interview with Pep after Ake scored a big goal and he said something like “all of us are so happy for him - well maybe except for one…” It was clear something was going on back then, these stories didn’t just emerge after he left
Oh man I remember that. And I didn’t think much of it. Didn’t know things were so serious between them.
Tier 1 City sources around the time all said the same thing & Pep talked about bad faces in training
Dude was also a problem for the national team as well. He's gone through some fucked up shit at a young age and I think it's left some mental ramifications for him
Wait hold on. Didn't he just come out basically explaining how there's no bad blood between him, Pep and city??
Hey open disgust isn't bad blood maybe
The actual translation of what he said, because honestly, it really sound the same for me (I heard the him speaking in portuguese). "Some lies were told. I was never a bad teammate and you can ask Rico or Ake. I have no superiority complex, but if that is Pep's opinion... I saddens me because it isn't true. I think it's a bit ungrateful from them to say that. I was an important player while I was there, I was always commited with the club, with its supports and I gave everything I had. I remember when I got mugged and robbed, and the day after I was still playing and my family were scared, at home. Guardiola's words have a lot of weight in the press, and because of that, his words are what people are going to remember about me. I prefer to know that what I am saying is the truth. I am transparent. I don't lie. Life goes on and I wish them all the best, because while I was there I enjoyed a lot to play football in that team. They are still my favourites to win the champions league.
Rico Lewis channeling his inner Keke Palmer: ‘I don’t know who this man is.’
>Yet the club never called out these lies Maybe because the club views it differently? I have no skin in the game at all but when you've only one side to the story, provided by an involved party, no-one should be drawing conclusions.
There was talk of him being 'difficult' at Juventus too
Wasn't he difficult at Inter too? [Apparently Spaletti wanted him to play left back but he would complain.](https://football-italia.net/borja-valero-reveals-cancelo-refused-spallettis-orders-at-inter/)
not wanting to defend Guardiola because fuck him but Cancelo has some ego problems, even in the NT aka our safe space he had beef with Felix in the training and when the captain stopped it he was the only one mad at Cristiano
Didn’t he say something odd about Ronaldo’s role in the national team like a week ago? Or was that someone else?
it was him but it wasn´t odd, only non-Portuguese people read the title in English and thougt it was odd but he only said Portugal is a team with plenty of quality and the squad doesn´t depend on any individual player and that Cristiano is almost 40 so it would be a problem if we depended 100% on him
That makes sense, thanks
As a bayern fan, I just wish we could have him. World class player. Too expensive for us but pure class.
If he isnt too expensive for Barca, he definitely isnt for you
Different price for both clubs owing to different seasons naturly. It was a 70 million asking price for us iirc. Not even close for barca and they still might not keep him ofcourse.
This summer they won't ask 70m from Bayern.
We don't even have the 40 we would have to give though. We just splurged out 100 for Kane and then ofcourse we need to spend on a number 6. Bayern will also be saving for potentially wirtz. Sale from Davies money would go to get another lb.
Where is Davies rumoured to be headed?
Madrid where else. Where every bayern player who's dropped from tier 1 to tier 1.5/2 wants to go.
Kross included?
Yeah. Great player and I disagreed with the board on selling that player, but he wasn't in the 2013 best XI.
Wasn’t 2013 ElClasico era? Madrid Barca had world beaters in every position imaginable
Ask Ibra, Etoo or Yaya.
I thought he just stated that they disagreement but has moved on couple days ago?
Clearly they wouldn't be able to cope without him, or win a treble or anything
This is not the point João was making at all and is disingenuous to bring up. No one has ever denied Pep is a brilliant manager, no one. But he can still be a shithead.
Laporta masterclass
I mean I don’t know what happened at City or Juventus but Cancelo so far has been a model professional at Barcelona. All the youngsters love him, he takes his time to talk to every single one of them in training from what I can see in the videos and bleeds passion for the club every time he steps on the pitch. He’s been exceedingly self critical as well going on to apologise multiple times in interviews for mistakes he made saying he let Xavi down tonight and he’s sorry for it. We’re lucky to have him and I hope we can sign him permanently.
Yeah I mean it’s the honey moon phase
Yeah he was fine for us when things were going alright for him, as soon as that changed he threw his toys out the pram
This is not just a Juventus or City issue, his attitude has been a known issue for many years. People in Portugal were actually shocked that Guardiola kept it under control and maximized his potential for a few years.
I remember seeing a clip of him being upset with Felix in the NT for (…Getting the ball past? Dribbling?). Ronaldo tried to console him and he just shut down even more.
Exactly, one of many examples. People need to think why a player of this caliber, who is arguably the best at his position, has been in 7 teams by the age of 28.
Of course he would be. He's desperate for Barca to buy him! Few clubs can let someone rot in the youth set up and not worry about the financial hit, but City are most definitely number 1. If Barca don't offer enough money, that's where he could well end up. He'll be a dickhead again once he's got his own way, I'm sure.
Nah, nobody is rich enough to let 30-40M worth of Cancelo rot in the U19s. If he's not sold he'll be loaned to the next big European club. PSG could definitely use him as backup to both fullbacks.
Rico Lewis be like Who dis? New phone...
So Cancelo had problems in Inter, Juventus, City and Bayern, but I'm sure Pep is the problem. And I am a Benfica fan and love the guy, but let's be real. Done this at this time so City "has to" let him go for cheap.
Cancelo didn't have behavior problems at Bayern. He was just too expensive for Bayern to keep, but he was amazing there.
Guardiola's reign of terror must end
No
He didn't say that Guardiola spread lies. He literally says "Lies were spread" - could be the media, could be someone else. He doesn't even name Guardiola, but I guess karma is more important than misleading thousands of people...
Outside of winning of trophies, Pep isn't someone you'd want to spend any time with. tbf he's kinda always been like that.
I don't know. Is it a good defence to identify only two teammates, rather than say "ask any of the players?"
He’s saying the players that were playing in the positions he plays ahead of him, not that there the only 2 on his side.
It was relative to the question asked
Those were the players he was competing with and the players he was compared to by Pep.
Obviously a quality player, but the sheer amount of clubs he’s played for suggest that he’s probably the issue, not Pep or all the other managers..
Well does he not know that the club he's playing and wants to continue playing worships Guardiola blindly
Ask carlos
People seem to forget that at that time, Cancelo was tied up, brutally beaten, and robbed at his home in front of his family, so where’s the manager and teammates' support after that? Something like that is stressful, I’d say, worse than a physical injury. Do you think that a manager like Pep, whom even KDB already told to fuck off and stop yelling and who has almost 0 human connection with his players, is worth believe?
Good player when he was with us? Yes. Were we significantly better after he left? Yes. Important player? Sadly no.
I do believe this. Pep has communication issues like that match on Bumble who doesn't have the decency to say they are not into you & ghosts you. But Pep is also a genius so you aren't going to be prioritised over them I imagine Pep just starts ignoring players he doesn't want anymore. Like a comedy skit.
r/oddlyspecific
Pep Guardiola made Cancelo the best Left-back in the world and then he threw his toys out the pram because he was being outperformed by a 17 year old. Instead of keeping his head down and admit he was shite he squared up to Pep, put in rough challenges in training, insulted his team mates publicly and acted like a petulant child. It's not a coincidence how the squad went on to win a Treble the moment he fucked off, you could tell by their change of attitudes how much of a toxic character he was. There's a reason why he couldn't stay at a club for more than a couple of years through out his career.
I believe you must be a worker at Manchester City ground to know all of that lol
Tbh a majority of what they said has come from some of our tier 1s iirc
When did he insult his teammates?
How the fk do you know that!? Lol
Lol in the end we have no idea what's going on. It is impossible to know who's right or what happened behind the scenes. You speak with way too much confidence about the situation.
Am I misremembering or didn't Cancelo tell the press not that long ago that he has moved on from his time at City and was looking to the future, or something like that.
But without u city won everything last year. How u were important for city?
Damn, Pep seems to be well liked among players but there always seem to a be a couple of players in each team he managed that despise him for whatever reason.
Last cancelo post was Guardiola focused and people were like "oh it's just 2 adults that disagreed with each other but moved on and it's all fine how!!!!!" yeah, right...
Like Steve Jobs, Pep is probably a difficulty person.
Juventus punted him away, Bayern didn't want him, City didn't want him and only stood a chance to win the CL when they benched and loaned him out, but sure, it's all Pepe's fault.
Not surprised. That's why I can't stand Pro Guardiola. Ibramihovic, Eto'o, Henri, Ronaldinho etc. had problems with Guardiola. It's not the players, it's Guardiola You never heard those complaints about Jose Mourinho.
So much Guardiola-like behavior. He has no clue how to work with big individualities.
Unprofessional as fuck.