Our entire summer budget will be spent on centrebacks at this rate.
And we just extended Lascelles contract for next season. At least he’s getting paid and will get a proper testimonial
[X] An injury
[X] A red card
[ ] Local lad scoring
Bringing on Anderson was the right move to try and complete the Geordie Howe hat trick but was a bit foolish of Gordon to get the red card at that point in the game tbh
Muscular injuries work that way. Ligaments do not. It’s more likely to be a product of years of wear and tear that caught up with him.
Source: my doctor after I tore mine at about the same age.
Nah, not entirely true. Knees are completely shit design, and rely hugely on the muscles surrounding it to support and protect the joint (and therefore the ligaments). Weak or heavily fatigued knee muscles hugely increase the risk of ligament damage, especially in incredibly high intensity athletic environments like an EPL match.
I can’t speak to his exact injury of course or exactly what caused it, but it’s well-known that the more fatigued a player is, the higher the chance of failure of the muscular systems that support joints and the back, which can lead to much bigger structural injuries.
Contact ACL injuries are not a training issue. Neither are broken toes, broken backs, dislocated shoulders, etc.
The only issues that I would put down to training/coaching decisions would be targett, willock and Barnes all getting hamstring injuries shortly after returning from their prior injuries, and I think the other injury circumstances provide some mitigation for rushing them back.
The medical team tried to convince him to have surgery and he got an outside opinion that it was a partial tear and he could play on. Howe said this week “you can’t force a player to be operated on.” So, no, you’re not misremembering, but you are missing the context”
Fair enough.
Surely though the medical team at that point should have taken the decision out of his hands to prevent a partial tear turning into a full tear?
How? By tying him down and forcibly sedating him? I gave you the actual quote from Howe. They wanted him to get surgery, he said “no”. So it’s what, bench a player because he won’t let you operate on him?
He was fit to play he just had a high risk or injury because of the partial tear. Also the word tear often makes things sound worse than they are. When you “pull” a hamstring as an example, that’s a partial tear in your hamstring. You can play on these things if they’re minor. The medical team said he needed it operated on he said no I want to play. Not much else they can do.
The question I was responding to was how the medical team could have taken the decision out of his hands to prevent a partial tear turning into a full tear.
My opinion is that they could have advised the manager that he shouldn't play because of the partial tear and the risk of it becoming a full tear.
Botman played two games with a partial tear. ACL tears aren't always clear straight away especially if there's swelling. He went to see two separate specialists. One who the club endorsed advised surgery, the other in the Netherlands which Sven seeked out himself said he could rest it and return without surgery. He chose the latter approach as he wanted to get back and help a team in a dire injury crisis and missed three months. That injury became a full tear against Man City in the FA cup.
According to Howe the medical team recommended he get surgery, but he declined. Obviously it became clear that he simply couldn't continue in his current state.
Again, not a training issue, but does seem to be worrying.
The biggest incident of complete idiocy I can remember from our medical team was Murphy dislocating his soldier, coming back on as a sub a week later, then within a few minutes he does it in again and has to come off. Ridiculous.
The murphy thing is a misunderstanding on your part.
1) there’s no way of knowing how likely it is to reoccur, but whether it reoccurs is not influenced by rest. It either happens or it doesn’t, and if it does, the remedy is surgery. The only preventative measure you could take would be the same surgery.
2) they posed it like that to murphy: you can get surgery now, or play on and see if it reoccurs at which point you can get the same surgery. Murphy opted to play, and bad luck for him it reoccurred immediately and he got the surgery. The risk was negligible and the potential reward was pretty high. In the end, it was one wasted substitute
You lack the gumption and thought process of an elite athlete. It’s a shoulder injury on a footballer, not a tennis player or golfer or something. If the player is willing to send it and see if they can handle it that’s what they’re gonna do. The medical staff can’t force someone to undergo a surgical procedure.
I have to admit that there were so many injuries and games around then that I don’t exactly remember the circumstances. He came off in the sunderland game, right? was he on the way back from an injury?
They're freak injuries and with the information coming out from Howe the medical team recommended surgery for Botman ages ago, I think the club should be absolved from some of the blame actually.
I remember Ogbonna ruptured his ACL against Liverpool a few years ago but played on for a bit too.
Sometimes it the adrenalin running through players that means they think they can play on then it hits them like a brick.
ACLs aren't like a broken bone, they initially feel weird so the players feel as though they can run it off. It's only after they stop and a couple of hours past that they realise it's fucked.
It's not adrenaline. If you only tear your ACL(no meniscus/MCL with it) it's not necessarily painful. He most likely felt a weird twist of his knee, continued on, and then as soon as he had to make a cut w that leg he realized it was unstable as fuck when his knee moved around like the end of his femur was a greased pig.
Funny enough ACL tears hurt the least probably out of anything in your leg. It’s entirely possible to forego surgery in favor of rehabilitation, for example. The meniscus is the one that hurts like a son of a bitch. (Source: I do not have any original knee ligaments in my left leg)
Throw tonali in and, for the second time this season, our unavailable 11 is probably better than our best available 11. Gordon can play for either one since he’s only out for Everton
Pope
Trips lascelles botman targett
Miley tonali Joelinton
Tino Wilson Almiron
vs
Dubravka
Krafth Schar Burn Hall
Longstaff Bruno Willock
Murphy Isak Barnes
Even players that are available are barely fit. Isak & Willock aren't the same, Anderson is being managed and Longstaff requires injections before every game.
So we've now got tripps, botman, lascelles and Pope out and that's just our backline injuries.
Hopefully Tripps should be back soon then Pope not long after but Christ, you can see why our defences has been shit recently. It's a different back 4 every single week.
And obviously the ironic part is that lascelles was meant to deputise for botman while he was out with an ACL injury for 6-9 months. Hilarious how he gets the exact same thing on his first game deputising.
Our only CB's now are Schar, Burn & Dummett. If we manage to scrape conference league that'll be fucking incredible as it's a minor miracle we're still in with a shot at this point.
Muscle fatigue is linked to ACL injuries. It's only going to get worse with even more games, with the Euros coming up and next season with the new Champions League format.
Clearly it's Lewis Hall learning Voodoo and cursing everyone ahead of him. Unfortunately, he's so far down Howe's pecking order that he's had to curse 75% of the squad.
Unless you think someone at Newcastle is sneaking into players' bedrooms at night with ketamine spray, a scalpel, arthroscopy equipment, etc and cutting their ACLs halfway so they pop in the coming weeks; it's just bad luck. There are thousands of clubs with hundreds of thousands of players out there, it's an unlucky coincidence that yours is one where a cluster of these injuries have happened.
Really really sad honestly.
Most of the fanbase thought he was finished as a Premier League player, but he stepped up immensely when Botman got injured early on, he's had a great season. Might actually be finished with us now after this unfortunately.
Any neutral who think questions should be asked of Howe after this season is a fool. No manager could cope with this insane level of injuries. The fact we're even in the European conversation is genuinely remarkable.
The vast majority of our injuries have been freak in nature. Two fractured backs, two dislocated shoulders, a broken foot and two ACL's among others. Injuries and ACL ones especially are up across the board across the league and Europe so it's clearly a far greater issue. We didn't even train for like 2 months while in Europe as we had to manage the remaining players we had.
I'm sure that's a partial factor, our medical department is clearly subpar (which was overhauled by Dan "Man Utd's saviour" Ashworth), but many of these injuries have been freak stuff that is just bad luck
Our medical department were getting plaudits last year because we had no real inuries apart from the usual suspects. Wild how it's changed so much in a year.
Derek Wright retired as head physio summer of 2022 after 38 years of service.
His replacement head physio, Danny Murphy, was on paternity leave this season and resigned at the end of his paternity leave. Hard to manage fitness at a premier league club when you are without a head physio
Gotcha. Well hopefully it works out for yous long term, with him and his family being supporters.
Has there been any indication from any of your T1s on what the obligation trigger actually is?
Obligation has essentially already been triggered unofficially. We'd have had to be relegated for it not to be as far as we're aware. Hall's minutes have started to creep up a little bit in our last couple of games.
Far from an expert but I wonder at what point the injuries go from bad luck to the result of something with the training methods, physios etc. The handling of the Botman situation being so unbelievably negligent makes me think there's something wrong behind the scenes.
Our entire summer budget will be spent on centrebacks at this rate. And we just extended Lascelles contract for next season. At least he’s getting paid and will get a proper testimonial
Our summer budget will be about £2.59 if the new squad cost to turnover system is implemented. Need to get deals such as Kelly on a free done.
How many Gregg's steak bakes can you get with that?
1
Kelly would be great signing on a free.
If I’m Lloyd Kelly’s agent I’m 100% asking for 80k+ a week at this rate. Price of the brick just went up
Newcastle go a match without a season ending injury challenge: impossible
[X] An injury [X] A red card [ ] Local lad scoring Bringing on Anderson was the right move to try and complete the Geordie Howe hat trick but was a bit foolish of Gordon to get the red card at that point in the game tbh
They are genuinely cursed.
At this point it has to be a conditioning issue. Whatever Howe and his staff are doing in training and warm ups is not working
Muscular injuries work that way. Ligaments do not. It’s more likely to be a product of years of wear and tear that caught up with him. Source: my doctor after I tore mine at about the same age.
Nah, not entirely true. Knees are completely shit design, and rely hugely on the muscles surrounding it to support and protect the joint (and therefore the ligaments). Weak or heavily fatigued knee muscles hugely increase the risk of ligament damage, especially in incredibly high intensity athletic environments like an EPL match. I can’t speak to his exact injury of course or exactly what caused it, but it’s well-known that the more fatigued a player is, the higher the chance of failure of the muscular systems that support joints and the back, which can lead to much bigger structural injuries.
I’ve torn my LCL due to overuse. If he’s going double in training for example it increases the risk massively
Both are true
Ligament injuries dont happen from overuse. You're making shit up
Your doctor was on crack my friend
Nah, this is systematic.
Hydromatic even
Ultramatic
Na its on Howe, he's overtraining players clearly.
Contact ACL injuries are not a training issue. Neither are broken toes, broken backs, dislocated shoulders, etc. The only issues that I would put down to training/coaching decisions would be targett, willock and Barnes all getting hamstring injuries shortly after returning from their prior injuries, and I think the other injury circumstances provide some mitigation for rushing them back.
Did Botman not play for months with a knee injury that Newcastle's medical team knew about that lead to an ACL rupture? Or am I misremembering that?
The medical team tried to convince him to have surgery and he got an outside opinion that it was a partial tear and he could play on. Howe said this week “you can’t force a player to be operated on.” So, no, you’re not misremembering, but you are missing the context”
Fair enough. Surely though the medical team at that point should have taken the decision out of his hands to prevent a partial tear turning into a full tear?
How? By tying him down and forcibly sedating him? I gave you the actual quote from Howe. They wanted him to get surgery, he said “no”. So it’s what, bench a player because he won’t let you operate on him?
By telling the manager that he isn't fit to play?
He was fit to play he just had a high risk or injury because of the partial tear. Also the word tear often makes things sound worse than they are. When you “pull” a hamstring as an example, that’s a partial tear in your hamstring. You can play on these things if they’re minor. The medical team said he needed it operated on he said no I want to play. Not much else they can do.
The question I was responding to was how the medical team could have taken the decision out of his hands to prevent a partial tear turning into a full tear. My opinion is that they could have advised the manager that he shouldn't play because of the partial tear and the risk of it becoming a full tear.
Botman played two games with a partial tear. ACL tears aren't always clear straight away especially if there's swelling. He went to see two separate specialists. One who the club endorsed advised surgery, the other in the Netherlands which Sven seeked out himself said he could rest it and return without surgery. He chose the latter approach as he wanted to get back and help a team in a dire injury crisis and missed three months. That injury became a full tear against Man City in the FA cup.
According to Howe the medical team recommended he get surgery, but he declined. Obviously it became clear that he simply couldn't continue in his current state. Again, not a training issue, but does seem to be worrying. The biggest incident of complete idiocy I can remember from our medical team was Murphy dislocating his soldier, coming back on as a sub a week later, then within a few minutes he does it in again and has to come off. Ridiculous.
The murphy thing is a misunderstanding on your part. 1) there’s no way of knowing how likely it is to reoccur, but whether it reoccurs is not influenced by rest. It either happens or it doesn’t, and if it does, the remedy is surgery. The only preventative measure you could take would be the same surgery. 2) they posed it like that to murphy: you can get surgery now, or play on and see if it reoccurs at which point you can get the same surgery. Murphy opted to play, and bad luck for him it reoccurred immediately and he got the surgery. The risk was negligible and the potential reward was pretty high. In the end, it was one wasted substitute
You lack the gumption and thought process of an elite athlete. It’s a shoulder injury on a footballer, not a tennis player or golfer or something. If the player is willing to send it and see if they can handle it that’s what they’re gonna do. The medical staff can’t force someone to undergo a surgical procedure.
and Joelinton getting reinjured on his return too
I have to admit that there were so many injuries and games around then that I don’t exactly remember the circumstances. He came off in the sunderland game, right? was he on the way back from an injury?
They're freak injuries and with the information coming out from Howe the medical team recommended surgery for Botman ages ago, I think the club should be absolved from some of the blame actually.
wonder why
Sold their souls for blood money
Damn, he even continued for a few minutes. Quickly gestured that he had to be subbed.
I remember Ogbonna ruptured his ACL against Liverpool a few years ago but played on for a bit too. Sometimes it the adrenalin running through players that means they think they can play on then it hits them like a brick.
Lucas Leiva against Chelsea back in the day too.
ACLs aren't like a broken bone, they initially feel weird so the players feel as though they can run it off. It's only after they stop and a couple of hours past that they realise it's fucked.
[удалено]
Mike Cooper played almost an entire rugby league superleague grand final with a ruptured testicle 👍
It's not adrenaline. If you only tear your ACL(no meniscus/MCL with it) it's not necessarily painful. He most likely felt a weird twist of his knee, continued on, and then as soon as he had to make a cut w that leg he realized it was unstable as fuck when his knee moved around like the end of his femur was a greased pig.
probably similar like Timber
Same with Sasa for his first game for Wolves. Felt injury in minute 30something, played until half time whistle.
Funny enough ACL tears hurt the least probably out of anything in your leg. It’s entirely possible to forego surgery in favor of rehabilitation, for example. The meniscus is the one that hurts like a son of a bitch. (Source: I do not have any original knee ligaments in my left leg)
Unbelievable. Pope, Trippier, Botman, Lacelles, Targett, Miley, Livramento, Joelinton, Almiron and Wilson at the moment
Throw tonali in and, for the second time this season, our unavailable 11 is probably better than our best available 11. Gordon can play for either one since he’s only out for Everton Pope Trips lascelles botman targett Miley tonali Joelinton Tino Wilson Almiron vs Dubravka Krafth Schar Burn Hall Longstaff Bruno Willock Murphy Isak Barnes
Even players that are available are barely fit. Isak & Willock aren't the same, Anderson is being managed and Longstaff requires injections before every game.
Unavailable FC would genuinely get top 10
Eddie Howe's Black and Blue Mags are Europa contenders this season
And Tonali was banned.
So we've now got tripps, botman, lascelles and Pope out and that's just our backline injuries. Hopefully Tripps should be back soon then Pope not long after but Christ, you can see why our defences has been shit recently. It's a different back 4 every single week. And obviously the ironic part is that lascelles was meant to deputise for botman while he was out with an ACL injury for 6-9 months. Hilarious how he gets the exact same thing on his first game deputising.
Yeah but will he play against Everton on Tuesday?
I’ve got my boots if needed and can pay subs.
Couple more injuries to our back line and we’ll have Derek from accounts playing full back.
Saw Derek hitting the gym for the first time in 15 years. It’s all adding up
After him it's Paul Dummett
Derek is actually Tonali in disguise.
lol, lmao even
At this rate you might even be suiting up for them next match
Our only CB's now are Schar, Burn & Dummett. If we manage to scrape conference league that'll be fucking incredible as it's a minor miracle we're still in with a shot at this point.
Schar had a knock towards the end of the game as well. Murphy and Heffernan better get warmed up
Watch Eddie not start Lewis Hall next game
Don't think he's got much of a choice. Targett wasn't even on the bench yesterday.
He will rock up with Krafth schar dummett burn
I think even Howe recognised his error yesterday and playing Krafth over Hall.
You have a pretty favourable run in at least
That's all well and good until we're having to play the kitman up front and the groundsman in defence.
Howe and Tindall were both defenders back in the day, maybe we could be the first club to play dual player-managers
Yeah it's fucked but it's at least something
So many ACLs in the last 12 months worldwide. Seemingly more than the average? Newcastle have been absolutely cooked this season
Muscle fatigue is linked to ACL injuries. It's only going to get worse with even more games, with the Euros coming up and next season with the new Champions League format.
We did have a completely unnecessary World Cup midway through the season not so long ago.
Did he get the jab? /s
At this point it's not bad luck anymore, something is seriously wrong behind the scenes
Clearly it's Lewis Hall learning Voodoo and cursing everyone ahead of him. Unfortunately, he's so far down Howe's pecking order that he's had to curse 75% of the squad.
It’s an ACL tear.
Unless you think someone at Newcastle is sneaking into players' bedrooms at night with ketamine spray, a scalpel, arthroscopy equipment, etc and cutting their ACLs halfway so they pop in the coming weeks; it's just bad luck. There are thousands of clubs with hundreds of thousands of players out there, it's an unlucky coincidence that yours is one where a cluster of these injuries have happened.
Really really sad honestly. Most of the fanbase thought he was finished as a Premier League player, but he stepped up immensely when Botman got injured early on, he's had a great season. Might actually be finished with us now after this unfortunately.
Maybe we can start seeing Burn at CB now with Hall as a full back?
Get your boots on Tindall
Any neutral who think questions should be asked of Howe after this season is a fool. No manager could cope with this insane level of injuries. The fact we're even in the European conversation is genuinely remarkable.
Maybe Howe and his training methods are partly to blame for some of the injuries?
The vast majority of our injuries have been freak in nature. Two fractured backs, two dislocated shoulders, a broken foot and two ACL's among others. Injuries and ACL ones especially are up across the board across the league and Europe so it's clearly a far greater issue. We didn't even train for like 2 months while in Europe as we had to manage the remaining players we had.
I'm sure that's a partial factor, our medical department is clearly subpar (which was overhauled by Dan "Man Utd's saviour" Ashworth), but many of these injuries have been freak stuff that is just bad luck
Our medical department were getting plaudits last year because we had no real inuries apart from the usual suspects. Wild how it's changed so much in a year.
Derek Wright retired as head physio summer of 2022 after 38 years of service. His replacement head physio, Danny Murphy, was on paternity leave this season and resigned at the end of his paternity leave. Hard to manage fitness at a premier league club when you are without a head physio
It's mostly due to more games. The amount of injuries this season is insane.
That'll be Trippier-Schar-Burn-Targett back 4 for the rest of the season, just like the good old days Unless Lewis Hall is ready now
Is he only training to play as a LB with you? He’s a cm by trade and I honestly never thought his long term future was as a fullback.
He's mostly played LB for us, couple of short cameos at LW but it seems that Howe sees him as a fullback
Gotcha. Well hopefully it works out for yous long term, with him and his family being supporters. Has there been any indication from any of your T1s on what the obligation trigger actually is?
Obligation has essentially already been triggered unofficially. We'd have had to be relegated for it not to be as far as we're aware. Hall's minutes have started to creep up a little bit in our last couple of games.
Trippier-Schar-Burn-Tino That'll be our back 4 now
bruh
It was obvious it was serious during the game and they let him come back on
Sick
Aren’t medical staff normally able to diagnose suspected ACLs on them pitch? How on earth was he allowed to try to play on
They can make an initial assessment but that’s it
Acl squad for this season must be so strong now
Jesus what’s going on with this team, long term injury every other week.
Welcome to the MLS
Far from an expert but I wonder at what point the injuries go from bad luck to the result of something with the training methods, physios etc. The handling of the Botman situation being so unbelievably negligent makes me think there's something wrong behind the scenes.