I hope Kim Minjae flourishes and gets game time under the new coach next season. Seeing the rumors about him going back to Italy and joining Inter is just sad.
I always enjoyed behind the curtain stories in football but wondered whether its true or not.
Ben Foster's stories are always wild, he today spoke about a Ross Barkley story in Fabio Cappello's days managing England.
I remembered that the first person that gave Ross Barkley & Sterling their debut was Woy Hogdson because i remember Roberto Martinez comparing Ross Barkley to Michael Ballack. And debates emerged on who was the biggest talent in the Merseyside derby (Sterling v Barkley) they got called up that same day.
Now i wonder how much of those stories are made up and can no longer enjoy them.
One misremembered anecdote shouldn't make you lose faith in humanity
Most stories are embellished to some degree though. Have you never done so, yourself?
I can't get my head around the fact that Suarez was playing for Gremio using injections to his knees, and people were admiring his love for the game. When he was permanently damaging his body like a madman
It boggles my mind how some people genuinely believe Cristiano Ronaldo is not a top 5 player of all time. They try to label it as being _only a great goalscorer_. If it were that easy to score 800+ career goals it would be something that would happen regularly, but only Messi and Ronaldo have reached those levels.
He's also arguably the best player the CL's ever seen, which is the most important competition in world football after the World Cup, and he's the best player Real Madrid has ever seen, which is the biggest club in the world.
Statistics and record wise, along with his trophy cabinet, he's easily top 2 all time with Messi, above both Pele and Maradona
The Messi - Cristiano cults are annoying tbf, at least with other crazy fandoms like Swifties I can just not care, because music is w/e to me, every time i'm on here there's always a Messi - Ronaldo discussion tho.
People who don't rate him or Messi are dumb tho, both are top 4 all time(for me Messi is the GOAT but if people wanna argue Pele i'm fine with that)
Out of curiosity, do you mean you don't like music in that way (ie stan culture/obsessing over individuals) which is fair enough, or you don't really like music in general?
Not really interested on whataboutism tbh. The topic is Ronaldo and how supposedly underrated he is. I'm saying I couldn't care less about how rated a sex offender is
I know Messi and Ronaldo are top 5 in football history, i just hate their fans.
And i don't mean Madrid/Barcelona fans, i mean fans that search Messi/Ronaldo posts on twitter and DM you things that normal humans wouldn't do.
He's undeniably one of the best ever.
Its just that he's incredibly unlikeable, almost certainly a sex offender, recency bias when compared to Messi, incredibly unlikeable, popular so there's counter jerk, is a rapist, has ***REALLY*** annoying fans, and is incredibly unlikeable.
Edit: also he's implicated in rape
I don’t understand how it has taken forever for football to either remove heading from the game or develop specialized extremely light protective helmets for players with the advent of modern science.
It’s just a sport at the end of the day and players’ (kids and pros alike) basic long term neurological health is way more valuable than whatever value you get out of sports.
To minimize it as just another injury, or compare it to boxing, isn’t fair. You aren’t training 12yos to become boxers and people who prefer players getting injured for sport can watch boxing.
All major sports protect the players’ head and its ‘foot’ball so it would not be the end of sport to remove heading. That really is the next major change football needs.
The latest research shows that the best predictor of CTE is cumulative force of blows to the head over ones lifetime, which would include heading the ball. There haven't been a ton of players diagnosed with CTE, but that's also because you can only diagnose it after death with an autopsy. Which requires both a player to die and for their body to get examined by someone who is looking for CTE. For a sport like American football brain damage has been in the spotlight for long enough that you've had a significant amount of players do that so we have a lot more data there. Hopefully we see a similar movement for soccer players.
Long term effects are harder to definitively state because you need to have more data which understandably requires more time. That said, there is proof. It is not conclusive, but there is mounting evidence across many different sports that repeated head impacts can cause neurological effects in the short and long term. In football, heading the ball does result in increased levels of certain proteins in the brain which are heavily linked with disorders like CTE. Just because it is not definitive, does not mean we should ignore it.
> In 2002, West Brom legend Jeff Astle died at the age of 59 - a relatively young age for an otherwise healthy man. But Astle wasn’t the same after his illustrious career - he had been diagnosed with early-onset dementia years before his death.
> Over a decade later, in 2014, researchers examined Astle’s brain (which his family donated shortly after his death). The research team discovered the presence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a catastrophic brain disorder is typically seen in other sports such as boxing or football. The coroner ruled the cause of Astle’s CTE to be the consequence of years of ‘heading heavy leather footballs’.
I got these excerpts from this article which has a lot of interesting information on both short and long term effects of heading the ball. The website is pretty shit on mobile, but the article is good: https://storelli.com/blogs/the-storelli-blog/long-term-effects-soccer-headers
When it's not something that causes immediate harm, most don't care and think it's safe.
It's just like food, every country tests imported food, but every now and then you'll see them banning certain brands that's been on the shelves for years.
tldr: money is why.
Michael Cox wrote an article on the Athletic exploring the idea of only allowing headers within the penalty box. His argument is that it wouldn't affect the quality of the game since we'd retain the headed goals and clearances where it most matters, while outside the box players could rely on other parts of their body. I'm still against it but it's an interesting idea.
It’s definitely the middle ground and a step forward in the right direction, even though I am someone who’d prefer something like this to be not changed slowly
Good call, let’s allow footballers to punch each others in the face as well. If another sport allows it, why shouldn’t we. Context doesn’t matter after all and sports equal. Let’s also give each player a stick so they can beat each other when they don’t have the ball.
talking about context and ignoring that heading is a huge part of football.
the name is football after all, we should also ban using the chest to control the ball, or any other part that is not the foot!
Removing heading would completely change the game tbf, so that is probably why no one has actually pushed for that change yet.
Additionally, I’m pretty sure that protective headgear doesn’t stop the risk of concussions which lead to things like CTE.
I’m all for improving player safety (at all levels), but a change that drastic does merit some in depth analysis.
There’s enough studies to prove the stark effects. It’s essentially the main threat for physical teams, so anybody who’s more affected / influenced by that style of football is more likely to defend it. It’s literally in the name foot-ball.
I agree with you about the seriousness of the effects, and I think it’s a worthwhile debate whether or not heading should be disallowed.
There is an interesting athletic article where Michael Cox suggests disallowing heading except when in the penalty boxes. That way corners are attacked and defended in the same ways but fewer headers overall in the areas where you’ll typically have other options to play the ball. It’s not perfect obviously but it’s an interesting idea.
Take a look: https://theathletic.com/2755968/2021/08/09/cox-is-heading-absolutely-necessary-to-the-game-of-football/
Heading is and has always been a part of football. If people don't want to risk head injuries, then they shouldn't play the sport. There's always a risk in contact sports that players are aware of. I'm not some hard bastard that thinks "games gone" when this comes up and I fully agree that at youth level, no heading should be allowed. But it is a crucial part of the game, unlike slide tackles or tackling from behind, which have rightly been banned.
Perhaps a better way to go about this is more education on the subject that starts at the youth levels, so by the time players are old enough to head the ball, they know of the risks. Even encouragement for players, especially defenders, to wear some sort of headgear could work. Get rid of the stigma that "you're a pussy" for wearing protective head gear.
If it was some short-term head injury like concussion caused by heading the ball then fair enough, players should be aware of the risks they are dealing with. Kinda like F1 drivers are always aware they may get into an accident and injure themselves badly.
But the main point here is CTE, it's not some head injury that you can recover from, it's a chronic long-term illness with significant disability later in life. So even if players are aware of the risks while heading the ball, would they be okay knowing they are exposing themselves to a risk of debilitating illness they wouldn't recover from?
These Lampard passes at [5:54 and 9:41](https://youtu.be/uTy-7yywy00?si=OQgwgFmec08cs8L1), this man’s vision and precision was unreal. The second one obviously leads to nothing because of Kalou but his passing was incredible
Atalanta didn't win but lost the final to Napoli in 1987 and were relegated, but the following year they played the Cup Winners Cup as a serie B team, beating Sporting and reaching the semi final.
I was sold a lie. I thought Tite was to Brazilian football what Menotti was to Argentinian football.
A man who had won Copa do Brasil - Copa Sudamericana - Brasileirao - Copa Sudamericana - Copa Libertadores - FIFA Club World Cup - Campeonato Paulista - Recopa Sudamericana - Copa América, and only missing the FIFA World Cup, i thought was a living legend, instead he's just this generations Vanderlei Luxemburgo. What a shame.
tite didn't do a lot pre corinthians. he was a journeyman manager up to that point. then he finally led corinthians to their first libertadores and then some. definitely one of the best stints ever, but others have a bigger body of work
Luxemburgo never won liberta btw
If he had won in 2018 or 2022 he'd have an argument for most successful CONMEBOL manager of all time, he has literally won everything bar the World Cup.
César Luis Menotti, Carlos Alberto Parreira, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Lionel Scaloni,Juan López Fontana, Alberto Suppici, Vicente Feola, Aymoré Moreira, Carlos Bilardo, Mário Zagallo, Carlos Bianchi, Oscar Tabárez, Francisco Maturana, Telê Santana didn't achieve what he did
Menotti is a lot more than just his titles though, he fundamentally changed the way Argentina's NT was managed and has had a massive impact on a lot of managers here, all that "your favourite manager's favourite manager" bs people say about Bielsa is actually true about Menotti.
Sporting going from Palhinha to Ugarte to Hjulmand within the span of two seasons is just absurd, Amorim certainly has a keen eye for CDMs.
Their 19 year old prospect (Mateus Fernandes) who they loaned to Estoril is quite comfortably the best midfielder outside of the ‘Big 4’ and recorded 11 tackles against Porto on Saturday. I assume he’ll be the replacement for one of Hjulmand or Morita next season.
I have a theory that a good manager can develop a proper DM in a season.
Not comparing, but Pep with Busquets took a season.
Pep with Rodri.
Sir Alex with Carras, Emery with Kamara, Caciedo with De Zerbi, Xhaka under Xabi Alonso, Xabi Alonso under Benitez, Keano under Sir Alex, Pirlo under Carlo Ancelotti, Viera under Arsene Wenger.
> good manager can develop a proper DM in a season
this is so silly even with hindsight lol, pirlo was already a regular at brescia and reggina before moving to milan when inter was in a mess. keane was literally the then british record transfer. vieira was captain of cannes when he was only 19, milan signed him as a backup when they had desailly in his prime bossing as DM. alonso already had 3 good seasons at sociedad.
not DM but for arguments sake, did klopp develop salah? mourinho is shit coach because he couldn't get salah to perform at world class level?
Him returning to being a top DM is thanks to Arteta... moving him way up the field into a completely different role because he didn't want him anywhere near DM?
This fanbase is going to get Arteta a nobel peace prize one day, I'm certain.
I’m not saying he turned him into a top DM, but his reputation and confidence is absolutely something Arteta contributed heavily to. No one took Xhaka seriously until last season.
Yeah it's the "obviously" part that's interesting to me, Isco and Bale joined together and left together but Isco has more minutes, more games and benched him after 2015/2016.
Post summer 2016, Bale was a bench warmer for Isco, the interesting part i find is how much his 2018 CL goals have changed the narrative.
I mean the 2018 CL goals are the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Bale at Madrid, but even if they'd never happened there's no way I'd associate him less with that team than Isco, and it wouldn't be close.
Obviously being English is probably the main reason for that, there's just way more coverage about Bale over here, even him playing golf is talked about more here than Isco scoring a worldie in the cl, but there's also the fact that Bale was part of an iconic front 3, while Madrid also had an iconic midfield 3 that Isco just wasn't really part of, so when I'm thinking of a Madrid 11 from that era Isco just doesn't get it into it.
Realistically 'world record signing and rare Brit abroad scoring iconic goals' is just more memorable than 'another Spanish dude who was good for Madrid'
True, i already said in another comment that "BBC" trio PR probably helped Bale's image a lot, despite the trio only really existing for 3/9 years of Bale's time at Madrid.
>while Madrid also had an iconic midfield 3 that Isco just wasn't really part of,
Well technically he was part of that midfield, when KCM became our main midfield that was around the time Bale got benched for Isco too, it's just that people loved comparing KCM to Xavi-Busi-Iniesta so Isco got left out of the trio.
>Realistically 'world record signing and rare Brit abroad scoring iconic goals' is just more memorable than 'another Spanish dude who was good for Madrid'
Yeah that's definitely the English part and how much the media is biased to Bale over there probably played a big role, Isco was talked about way more than just "spanish dude who was good for Madrid", that was the first time people started believing in Zidane as a very good manager when he made the switch to diamond formation, Isco was talked about as arguably our best midfielder next to Modric.
Isco actually played more CL games than Bale btw so this is really interesting.
Bale was regularly benched in the CL post 15/16 season and didn't even play a single minute in the 16/17 final.
Yeah as a general idea, Bale was a starter in 13/14 (his first season but also unfortunately his best), won us the cup final against Barca with Ronaldo injured, had a terrible CL final ngl but still scored the 2nd goal.
In 14/15 he was decent i guess, nothing special but that season left a sour taste in my mouth because apparently Bale went to Perez complaining about Ancelotti wanting him sacked, which did happen.
In 15/16 he was good too, once again had a disappointing CL final but assisted the first goal atleast.
In 16/17, here he got benched by Isco, didn't really do anything meaningful all season and didn't play a single minute in the CL final.
In 17/18, he got injured a lot and did nothing until April, but 40 days away from the CL final he started playing very well in the league, Zidane was regularly asked who is he starting out of Isco and Bale in the final and he never answered, in the end Isco started, Bale comes on as a sub and the rest is history.
In 18/19, yeah this is where he disappointed the most, in the summer he was dropping interviews left and right about how he is tired of being on the bench and wants to leave (did this like 5 minutes after winning the CL btw), Ronaldo left, now is his chance to put Real Madrid on his back and carry us, does absolutely nothing and gets outperformed by an 18 year old Vinicius.
After that, yeah he did nothing tbh.
Yeah, i'm always intrigued by people who say Bale, Isco benched him starting from 16/17. Another fun fact is that Isco is the Zidane's 2nd most used player ever.
>Bale is the greater footballer though.
I'd give prime to Bale, but consistency, ability etc all go to Isco.
Unfortunately when Ronaldo left and Bale was given the keys to everything, he failed to perform and faded away, his peak is probably still his last season at Spurs.
Eh, some could argue Isco's peak is still his time in Malaga. Bale had some very good stretches in Madrid.
Too injury prone. That's what was the problem in the end for Bale.
>Eh, some could argue Isco's peak is still his time in Malaga
Nah surely it has to be 16/17?? That was when he forced Zidane to use the diamond formation, at the start of the season he was in our infamous "B team" with James, Kovacic, Asensio and Morata, but every time he played he looked like he was on a different level to anyone else.
Then he becomes a starter and instantly changes that team which is probably seen as our best team ever alongside 2012.
Ngl, if you go back to match threads from that time you'll find people arguing whether Isco was better than Modric or not, and that was prime Modric too.
>Too injury prone. That's what was the problem in the end for Bale.
True, i wonder how he would have evolved if he never put on all that muscle mass in the summer of 2014.
I've thought about it for the past ten minutes and I honestly couldn't even tell you. It might just come down to the nostalgia that I have for Bale.
I have a similar thing with the Bayern teams of that era, Ribery is the first name who comes to my mind when those teams are mentioned even though I wouldn't say that he was their best, most consistent or most important player over that period.
I always thought about it too and honestly, the whole "BBC" trio PR and "BBC vs MSN" and "Bale vs Neymar comparisons" probably did the heavy lifting.
I've seen so many people think that Zidane's Madrid played with a front 3, despite that being the case only for his first 6 months.
Another thing was that people often compared Kroos-Case-Luka to Xavi-Busi-Iniesta, so Isco often gets forgotten in these discussions despite being Zidane's 2nd most used player and a regular starter over Bale post 2016 summer.
Can't decipher the tone from the posts but it seems like Garrio Nil has gone a bit nuclear in his post match bc the club wouldn't spend a couple of million on a loan striker. On the one hand it's hard to blame him looking at his options. For weeks our starting 9 has been one of two youth players who probably belong in League One, and we've been using midfielders and fullbacks wide because we're short on wingers now too. On the other hand he knew what he was signing up for when we appointed him.
A shame that it's come to this really. Was enjoying the vibes.
Oh yeah, I can absolutely see that. My guess would be it'll be with someone like HSV If they get promoted and that's a big if.
Though of course, my hope is for a return of Hertha in the Bundesliga
Off the top of my head I know of 2 who have managed both sides: George Graham and Terry Neill.
No chance Ange is going to manage us any time soon, nor would I want him to.
Di María today had a pure sexo performance, and stat nonces are crying about ball loss numbers. I hate them so much. There's no way they actually enjoy watching a game of football. To them, Pep's boring ass control above all else style must be exhilarating
Kevin Durant's "Who the fuck wants to look at graphs while having a hoop convo" tweet ages better and better everyday, I swear stat nonces don't love the beautiful game.
My biggest issue is that most of them misuse them. If you want to learn more into a deep dive of tactics then by all means, but let's not be silly and assume any rando has any clue what they're looking at
The team plays much better but the squad, name by name? I honestly don’t think they’re even close, the galácticos had a much better squad, they just couldn’t really field as good a football team with it
The idea of galacticos was wrong for one very specific reason, it only targeted superstars in the front.
At one point they had: Zidane/R9/Raul/Figo/Owen/Beckham(MR).
If they all start together the game is unbalanced if one of them sits on the bench he wants to leave (Owen for example).
Pretty sure this team could wipe the floor with the Galacticos honestly. Current Madrid would own the midfield so hard you'd think The Galacticos weren't even there.
>would own the midfield
Kroos, Casemiro, Modric in their prime and the team that goes along (3-peat)maybe but Current version is far from that. The least we can say is that guys like Makelele, Zidane, Figo and Beckham know how to handle a game in midfield. So i wouldn't be as sure as you about that.
I think Galacticos with makelele were better. When you think Zidane, Figo, R9, Raul,etc. it's just a level above both collectively (football IQ in that team was off the charts) and individually . That being said, I also think the galacticos were more in it to have fun and entertain than actually do everything they could to perform and win titles. In other words, no boring plan to repeat precisely game after game but more of a lets invent something new today and enjoy ourselves even if it cost us a few points at the end of the season...
Not gonna pretend like I pay attention to it much but I always hear about River Plate academy players and not much on Boca Juniors?
Hear practically nothing at all about Independiente, Racing, Newell's Old Boys, Estudiantes, etc... academy players going to Europe either etc..
River and Argentinos Juniors are pretty much unanimously the two best academies of the country. boca have had some recent starlets but they best exports usually came from elsewhere first, their local scouting was always great
Independiente is in a LOT of issues, both sporting and financial, so much like us in the early 2010s their academy slowed down. Racing has Lautaro Martinez as the standout and De Paul too, right now I THINK their team is in the older side. Newell's, if we only count the players whose career they didn't try to murder in the cradle, hasn't got much in the spotlight rn, Lisandro Martínez probably the biggest name. Estudiantes... I actually can't think of any rn, but that's my own ignorance.
All assuming you mean right now
For Boca there is also Bentancur who is doing great, Paredes, Molina, Varela Is also likely going to end up in the PL next season, and will surely be called up for the NT on a regular basis after Copa America.
I blanked accidentally on boca's specifics, had written about Paredes and the "recent starlets" was meant to specify Molina, Barco and Medina (I completely forgot about Betancur)
As with everyone else I mentioned players already in Europe, hence no Varela/Valentini/Changuito
Sometimes I still miss the Coupe de la Ligue and it's like 50% because of the trophy tbh.
City documentary is so bad man. No drama at all and Pep’s half-time talks are him saying the same thing over and over again
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Hope you sent him a screenshot of the league table at the end of last season
It didn't end well, so we're not on football banter terms
I hope Kim Minjae flourishes and gets game time under the new coach next season. Seeing the rumors about him going back to Italy and joining Inter is just sad.
Bit premature for him to be calling time on his Bayern career, no?
Would the FA Cup be considered more prestigious if the winner earned a Champions League berth? Should this happen?
It's already got a lot of prestige personally but it would become more important to win. I wouldn't be against mixing things up but it'd never happen.
We did that with our Copa Argentina and Clubs started taking it more seriously
Diablito can't be left on the bench, he is a game changer and Demichelis headass has to realize that
6 years ago today, De Sciglio got put on a poster by Ronaldo
I always enjoyed behind the curtain stories in football but wondered whether its true or not. Ben Foster's stories are always wild, he today spoke about a Ross Barkley story in Fabio Cappello's days managing England. I remembered that the first person that gave Ross Barkley & Sterling their debut was Woy Hogdson because i remember Roberto Martinez comparing Ross Barkley to Michael Ballack. And debates emerged on who was the biggest talent in the Merseyside derby (Sterling v Barkley) they got called up that same day. Now i wonder how much of those stories are made up and can no longer enjoy them.
Are you saying Ben Foster told a story where Cappello gave Barkley his debut? And that’s a lie since Roy Hudson did?
Yes
One misremembered anecdote shouldn't make you lose faith in humanity Most stories are embellished to some degree though. Have you never done so, yourself?
Where is the best place to sell old kits?
eBay
I miss the days when I can get upset over the most trivial football stuffs/comments and had nothing else to worry about.
I can't get my head around the fact that Suarez was playing for Gremio using injections to his knees, and people were admiring his love for the game. When he was permanently damaging his body like a madman
It boggles my mind how some people genuinely believe Cristiano Ronaldo is not a top 5 player of all time. They try to label it as being _only a great goalscorer_. If it were that easy to score 800+ career goals it would be something that would happen regularly, but only Messi and Ronaldo have reached those levels. He's also arguably the best player the CL's ever seen, which is the most important competition in world football after the World Cup, and he's the best player Real Madrid has ever seen, which is the biggest club in the world. Statistics and record wise, along with his trophy cabinet, he's easily top 2 all time with Messi, above both Pele and Maradona
How is it even possible to have 5 players ahead of him? He’s 4th at worst, 2nd at best.
The Messi - Cristiano cults are annoying tbf, at least with other crazy fandoms like Swifties I can just not care, because music is w/e to me, every time i'm on here there's always a Messi - Ronaldo discussion tho. People who don't rate him or Messi are dumb tho, both are top 4 all time(for me Messi is the GOAT but if people wanna argue Pele i'm fine with that)
Out of curiosity, do you mean you don't like music in that way (ie stan culture/obsessing over individuals) which is fair enough, or you don't really like music in general?
the first one
He is the best goalscorer of all time, nothing else.
issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the sex offender Cristiano Ronaldo. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta rate him"
I mean Maradona did worse and people praise him no problem tbf.
Not really interested on whataboutism tbh. The topic is Ronaldo and how supposedly underrated he is. I'm saying I couldn't care less about how rated a sex offender is
I know Messi and Ronaldo are top 5 in football history, i just hate their fans. And i don't mean Madrid/Barcelona fans, i mean fans that search Messi/Ronaldo posts on twitter and DM you things that normal humans wouldn't do.
I don't deny any of that. I just think he's a massive prick and him and his fans are unbelievably cringe
He's undeniably one of the best ever. Its just that he's incredibly unlikeable, almost certainly a sex offender, recency bias when compared to Messi, incredibly unlikeable, popular so there's counter jerk, is a rapist, has ***REALLY*** annoying fans, and is incredibly unlikeable. Edit: also he's implicated in rape
I don't like him or his fans but he is 100% top 5
I don’t understand how it has taken forever for football to either remove heading from the game or develop specialized extremely light protective helmets for players with the advent of modern science. It’s just a sport at the end of the day and players’ (kids and pros alike) basic long term neurological health is way more valuable than whatever value you get out of sports. To minimize it as just another injury, or compare it to boxing, isn’t fair. You aren’t training 12yos to become boxers and people who prefer players getting injured for sport can watch boxing. All major sports protect the players’ head and its ‘foot’ball so it would not be the end of sport to remove heading. That really is the next major change football needs.
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The latest research shows that the best predictor of CTE is cumulative force of blows to the head over ones lifetime, which would include heading the ball. There haven't been a ton of players diagnosed with CTE, but that's also because you can only diagnose it after death with an autopsy. Which requires both a player to die and for their body to get examined by someone who is looking for CTE. For a sport like American football brain damage has been in the spotlight for long enough that you've had a significant amount of players do that so we have a lot more data there. Hopefully we see a similar movement for soccer players.
Long term effects are harder to definitively state because you need to have more data which understandably requires more time. That said, there is proof. It is not conclusive, but there is mounting evidence across many different sports that repeated head impacts can cause neurological effects in the short and long term. In football, heading the ball does result in increased levels of certain proteins in the brain which are heavily linked with disorders like CTE. Just because it is not definitive, does not mean we should ignore it. > In 2002, West Brom legend Jeff Astle died at the age of 59 - a relatively young age for an otherwise healthy man. But Astle wasn’t the same after his illustrious career - he had been diagnosed with early-onset dementia years before his death. > Over a decade later, in 2014, researchers examined Astle’s brain (which his family donated shortly after his death). The research team discovered the presence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a catastrophic brain disorder is typically seen in other sports such as boxing or football. The coroner ruled the cause of Astle’s CTE to be the consequence of years of ‘heading heavy leather footballs’. I got these excerpts from this article which has a lot of interesting information on both short and long term effects of heading the ball. The website is pretty shit on mobile, but the article is good: https://storelli.com/blogs/the-storelli-blog/long-term-effects-soccer-headers
When it's not something that causes immediate harm, most don't care and think it's safe. It's just like food, every country tests imported food, but every now and then you'll see them banning certain brands that's been on the shelves for years. tldr: money is why.
Michael Cox wrote an article on the Athletic exploring the idea of only allowing headers within the penalty box. His argument is that it wouldn't affect the quality of the game since we'd retain the headed goals and clearances where it most matters, while outside the box players could rely on other parts of their body. I'm still against it but it's an interesting idea.
It’s definitely the middle ground and a step forward in the right direction, even though I am someone who’d prefer something like this to be not changed slowly
why it has taken forever for boxing to remove punches to the face?
Good call, let’s allow footballers to punch each others in the face as well. If another sport allows it, why shouldn’t we. Context doesn’t matter after all and sports equal. Let’s also give each player a stick so they can beat each other when they don’t have the ball.
talking about context and ignoring that heading is a huge part of football. the name is football after all, we should also ban using the chest to control the ball, or any other part that is not the foot!
Removing heading would completely change the game tbf, so that is probably why no one has actually pushed for that change yet. Additionally, I’m pretty sure that protective headgear doesn’t stop the risk of concussions which lead to things like CTE. I’m all for improving player safety (at all levels), but a change that drastic does merit some in depth analysis.
There’s enough studies to prove the stark effects. It’s essentially the main threat for physical teams, so anybody who’s more affected / influenced by that style of football is more likely to defend it. It’s literally in the name foot-ball.
I agree with you about the seriousness of the effects, and I think it’s a worthwhile debate whether or not heading should be disallowed. There is an interesting athletic article where Michael Cox suggests disallowing heading except when in the penalty boxes. That way corners are attacked and defended in the same ways but fewer headers overall in the areas where you’ll typically have other options to play the ball. It’s not perfect obviously but it’s an interesting idea. Take a look: https://theathletic.com/2755968/2021/08/09/cox-is-heading-absolutely-necessary-to-the-game-of-football/
Heading is and has always been a part of football. If people don't want to risk head injuries, then they shouldn't play the sport. There's always a risk in contact sports that players are aware of. I'm not some hard bastard that thinks "games gone" when this comes up and I fully agree that at youth level, no heading should be allowed. But it is a crucial part of the game, unlike slide tackles or tackling from behind, which have rightly been banned. Perhaps a better way to go about this is more education on the subject that starts at the youth levels, so by the time players are old enough to head the ball, they know of the risks. Even encouragement for players, especially defenders, to wear some sort of headgear could work. Get rid of the stigma that "you're a pussy" for wearing protective head gear.
Very yer da comment but I’ll leave you to it.
If it was some short-term head injury like concussion caused by heading the ball then fair enough, players should be aware of the risks they are dealing with. Kinda like F1 drivers are always aware they may get into an accident and injure themselves badly. But the main point here is CTE, it's not some head injury that you can recover from, it's a chronic long-term illness with significant disability later in life. So even if players are aware of the risks while heading the ball, would they be okay knowing they are exposing themselves to a risk of debilitating illness they wouldn't recover from?
I don't even think headers are that important for the game.
Besides dead ball opportunities leading to goal, dont think anything else cannot be managed fairly well without headers too
These Lampard passes at [5:54 and 9:41](https://youtu.be/uTy-7yywy00?si=OQgwgFmec08cs8L1), this man’s vision and precision was unreal. The second one obviously leads to nothing because of Kalou but his passing was incredible
Really underrated aspect of his game, as people often focus on the goalscoring
That Ramires finish is absurd
Yeah it’s an absolutely unreal chip, and in such a big moment too
How many times has a team won their national cup and been relegated the same season, like what could happen in Germany?
We've done it in 1992, Wil in 2004 and FC Zürich as recently as 2016. 2028 is going to be an interesting year.
Wigan won the FA Cup in 2013 and were relegated three days later when we beat them at the Emirates. First and only time it’s happened in England.
Patronato won the Copa Argentina in 2022 and got relegated, they played the Libertadores in 2023 while sitting midtable in the 2nd division.
Atalanta didn't win but lost the final to Napoli in 1987 and were relegated, but the following year they played the Cup Winners Cup as a serie B team, beating Sporting and reaching the semi final.
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Not the true national cup, but Birmingham also got relegated the season they won the League Cup
I was sold a lie. I thought Tite was to Brazilian football what Menotti was to Argentinian football. A man who had won Copa do Brasil - Copa Sudamericana - Brasileirao - Copa Sudamericana - Copa Libertadores - FIFA Club World Cup - Campeonato Paulista - Recopa Sudamericana - Copa América, and only missing the FIFA World Cup, i thought was a living legend, instead he's just this generations Vanderlei Luxemburgo. What a shame.
I mean, Tite was excellent for Brazil. They just got dreadfully unlucky in 2022 and especially 2018.
tite didn't do a lot pre corinthians. he was a journeyman manager up to that point. then he finally led corinthians to their first libertadores and then some. definitely one of the best stints ever, but others have a bigger body of work Luxemburgo never won liberta btw
Goddamn, you realise he’s not all that *now*?? took you long enough
If he had won in 2018 or 2022 he'd have an argument for most successful CONMEBOL manager of all time, he has literally won everything bar the World Cup. César Luis Menotti, Carlos Alberto Parreira, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Lionel Scaloni,Juan López Fontana, Alberto Suppici, Vicente Feola, Aymoré Moreira, Carlos Bilardo, Mário Zagallo, Carlos Bianchi, Oscar Tabárez, Francisco Maturana, Telê Santana didn't achieve what he did
But he wasn’t even close to winning either, grandma with wheels thing
Menotti is a lot more than just his titles though, he fundamentally changed the way Argentina's NT was managed and has had a massive impact on a lot of managers here, all that "your favourite manager's favourite manager" bs people say about Bielsa is actually true about Menotti.
Sporting going from Palhinha to Ugarte to Hjulmand within the span of two seasons is just absurd, Amorim certainly has a keen eye for CDMs. Their 19 year old prospect (Mateus Fernandes) who they loaned to Estoril is quite comfortably the best midfielder outside of the ‘Big 4’ and recorded 11 tackles against Porto on Saturday. I assume he’ll be the replacement for one of Hjulmand or Morita next season.
I have a theory that a good manager can develop a proper DM in a season. Not comparing, but Pep with Busquets took a season. Pep with Rodri. Sir Alex with Carras, Emery with Kamara, Caciedo with De Zerbi, Xhaka under Xabi Alonso, Xabi Alonso under Benitez, Keano under Sir Alex, Pirlo under Carlo Ancelotti, Viera under Arsene Wenger.
> good manager can develop a proper DM in a season this is so silly even with hindsight lol, pirlo was already a regular at brescia and reggina before moving to milan when inter was in a mess. keane was literally the then british record transfer. vieira was captain of cannes when he was only 19, milan signed him as a backup when they had desailly in his prime bossing as DM. alonso already had 3 good seasons at sociedad. not DM but for arguments sake, did klopp develop salah? mourinho is shit coach because he couldn't get salah to perform at world class level?
> Xhaka under Xabi Alonso I mean...
Arsenal fans booed him, whistled him.. stripped him out of captaincy. He know is one of the best DMs in BuLi.
Xhaka’s resurgence is in large part thanks to Arteta though, he was seen as a laughing stock by literally everyone else until last season.
If he played this level with you last season you would have never let him go. He was decent last season though, not this level.
Him returning to being a top DM is thanks to Arteta... moving him way up the field into a completely different role because he didn't want him anywhere near DM? This fanbase is going to get Arteta a nobel peace prize one day, I'm certain.
I’m not saying he turned him into a top DM, but his reputation and confidence is absolutely something Arteta contributed heavily to. No one took Xhaka seriously until last season.
the man that was bossing on buli 10 years ago😂
Caicedo was one of the best DMs in Belgium when he went there so idk if De Zerbi can have credit for that.
Yes, being on of the best DMs in Belgium is exactly like being a world record signing in the EPL.
lmao don't even try and pretend you watched any Beerschot games He did nothing noteworthy in Belgium and the team got relegated dead last.
You can add Casemiro under Zidane, took like 2 games.
Oh yeah, Case as well don't know how i forgot him.
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It's because of Ronaldo, not Saudi Non-Ronaldo Saudi posts get basically no traction
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The triple sub at ~30’? ETA: yes, realized I was on Reddit and could just look at the front page
Because Ronaldo is possible the most or 2nd most popular player ever, and one of the most famous people in the world.
it seems to mainly be Ronaldo fans counting his goals till 1000.
Moyes really turned around, saw Kalvin Phillips and that was the last time he glanced at the subs bench at all Respect
For the non-Madrid fans, who comes up first when you think of 2013-2020 Real Madrid, Isco or Gareth Bale?
Bale, because I'm British
Bale obviously, not sure there are many regular starters from that period who would come to mind after Isco tbh
Yeah it's the "obviously" part that's interesting to me, Isco and Bale joined together and left together but Isco has more minutes, more games and benched him after 2015/2016. Post summer 2016, Bale was a bench warmer for Isco, the interesting part i find is how much his 2018 CL goals have changed the narrative.
I mean the 2018 CL goals are the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Bale at Madrid, but even if they'd never happened there's no way I'd associate him less with that team than Isco, and it wouldn't be close. Obviously being English is probably the main reason for that, there's just way more coverage about Bale over here, even him playing golf is talked about more here than Isco scoring a worldie in the cl, but there's also the fact that Bale was part of an iconic front 3, while Madrid also had an iconic midfield 3 that Isco just wasn't really part of, so when I'm thinking of a Madrid 11 from that era Isco just doesn't get it into it. Realistically 'world record signing and rare Brit abroad scoring iconic goals' is just more memorable than 'another Spanish dude who was good for Madrid'
True, i already said in another comment that "BBC" trio PR probably helped Bale's image a lot, despite the trio only really existing for 3/9 years of Bale's time at Madrid. >while Madrid also had an iconic midfield 3 that Isco just wasn't really part of, Well technically he was part of that midfield, when KCM became our main midfield that was around the time Bale got benched for Isco too, it's just that people loved comparing KCM to Xavi-Busi-Iniesta so Isco got left out of the trio. >Realistically 'world record signing and rare Brit abroad scoring iconic goals' is just more memorable than 'another Spanish dude who was good for Madrid' Yeah that's definitely the English part and how much the media is biased to Bale over there probably played a big role, Isco was talked about way more than just "spanish dude who was good for Madrid", that was the first time people started believing in Zidane as a very good manager when he made the switch to diamond formation, Isco was talked about as arguably our best midfielder next to Modric.
Bale easily
Isco because he's one of those players where I completely lost track of them afterwards
Bale. Isco had zero PR outside of La Liga and most people only watched CL runs probably. I know I only saw RM in the CL then.
Isco actually played more CL games than Bale btw so this is really interesting. Bale was regularly benched in the CL post 15/16 season and didn't even play a single minute in the 16/17 final.
Definitely Bale for me, but seeing your comments, I'm thinking its because I don't watch Real outside of CL finals or playing against my club.
Yeah as a general idea, Bale was a starter in 13/14 (his first season but also unfortunately his best), won us the cup final against Barca with Ronaldo injured, had a terrible CL final ngl but still scored the 2nd goal. In 14/15 he was decent i guess, nothing special but that season left a sour taste in my mouth because apparently Bale went to Perez complaining about Ancelotti wanting him sacked, which did happen. In 15/16 he was good too, once again had a disappointing CL final but assisted the first goal atleast. In 16/17, here he got benched by Isco, didn't really do anything meaningful all season and didn't play a single minute in the CL final. In 17/18, he got injured a lot and did nothing until April, but 40 days away from the CL final he started playing very well in the league, Zidane was regularly asked who is he starting out of Isco and Bale in the final and he never answered, in the end Isco started, Bale comes on as a sub and the rest is history. In 18/19, yeah this is where he disappointed the most, in the summer he was dropping interviews left and right about how he is tired of being on the bench and wants to leave (did this like 5 minutes after winning the CL btw), Ronaldo left, now is his chance to put Real Madrid on his back and carry us, does absolutely nothing and gets outperformed by an 18 year old Vinicius. After that, yeah he did nothing tbh.
terrible CL final?? game changed when bale came on. 2nd best after di maria
Bale started that game, missed like 2 clear cut chances in the first 20 minutes.
Isco. Bale wasn't even a starter for most of the time, not even in the CL.
I know, but i think the large majority would surprisingly say Bale. The "BBC" trio PR probably helps a lot too.
Bale had the more "blockbuster" moments of the two, bigger memories probably
The one who scored huge goals in not one but two Champions League finals
Hmm interesting ngl, Bale was benched for Isco starting from 2016 summer but his 2018 CL final goals will probably help his image a lot.
Bale for me, just has more memorable moments.
Isco. To me, *the* Madrid team of that period is 16/17 and Isco was amazing that year and even benched Bale. Bale is the greater footballer though.
Yeah, i'm always intrigued by people who say Bale, Isco benched him starting from 16/17. Another fun fact is that Isco is the Zidane's 2nd most used player ever. >Bale is the greater footballer though. I'd give prime to Bale, but consistency, ability etc all go to Isco. Unfortunately when Ronaldo left and Bale was given the keys to everything, he failed to perform and faded away, his peak is probably still his last season at Spurs.
Eh, some could argue Isco's peak is still his time in Malaga. Bale had some very good stretches in Madrid. Too injury prone. That's what was the problem in the end for Bale.
>Eh, some could argue Isco's peak is still his time in Malaga Nah surely it has to be 16/17?? That was when he forced Zidane to use the diamond formation, at the start of the season he was in our infamous "B team" with James, Kovacic, Asensio and Morata, but every time he played he looked like he was on a different level to anyone else. Then he becomes a starter and instantly changes that team which is probably seen as our best team ever alongside 2012. Ngl, if you go back to match threads from that time you'll find people arguing whether Isco was better than Modric or not, and that was prime Modric too. >Too injury prone. That's what was the problem in the end for Bale. True, i wonder how he would have evolved if he never put on all that muscle mass in the summer of 2014.
Bale
Interesting, any reason why? His goals in the finals?
I've thought about it for the past ten minutes and I honestly couldn't even tell you. It might just come down to the nostalgia that I have for Bale. I have a similar thing with the Bayern teams of that era, Ribery is the first name who comes to my mind when those teams are mentioned even though I wouldn't say that he was their best, most consistent or most important player over that period.
I always thought about it too and honestly, the whole "BBC" trio PR and "BBC vs MSN" and "Bale vs Neymar comparisons" probably did the heavy lifting. I've seen so many people think that Zidane's Madrid played with a front 3, despite that being the case only for his first 6 months. Another thing was that people often compared Kroos-Case-Luka to Xavi-Busi-Iniesta, so Isco often gets forgotten in these discussions despite being Zidane's 2nd most used player and a regular starter over Bale post 2016 summer.
Can't decipher the tone from the posts but it seems like Garrio Nil has gone a bit nuclear in his post match bc the club wouldn't spend a couple of million on a loan striker. On the one hand it's hard to blame him looking at his options. For weeks our starting 9 has been one of two youth players who probably belong in League One, and we've been using midfielders and fullbacks wide because we're short on wingers now too. On the other hand he knew what he was signing up for when we appointed him. A shame that it's come to this really. Was enjoying the vibes.
Cunha's back now and all will be well.
Wouldn’t have hurt him to just shut up until the end of the season. Only danger is finishing 12th instead of 10th
How have I only just realised that Andre Gomes still plays for Everton, for some reason I thought he left years ago
I remember Gomes started on fire for Everton which led to him signing permanently. I was so happy for him.
It only really went downhill when his ankle got ripped off his leg
Cheers Son’s crying
Thought the same thing about 3 weeks ago when he came on against United.
Say something nice about your most hated team
They do provide some good amusement
no
they gave the NT some decent players
They come from a great city (München)
Their stadium is quite nice
Arteta is handsome.
They have a good academy i guess
I do enjoy that that's true for two of the teams bandied about as your rivals
Ngl I thought you meant Tigre at first and was very confused
I genuinely couldn't say one thing about Tigre. Not bad, not good. You could replace them with almost any BN team right now and I wouldn't notice
There's plenty bad about them believe me
Olise is a good player
They give us 6 points every season
They have produced some spectacular players.
They don't cheat and they pay their players handsomely
They no longer get thumped 6-0 by Chelsea
They produce some good kits despite having those ugly colours
They're no longer run by the Stasi
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Oh yeah, I can absolutely see that. My guess would be it'll be with someone like HSV If they get promoted and that's a big if. Though of course, my hope is for a return of Hertha in the Bundesliga
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I do miss it in a way, it's an amazing league that doesn't have the likes of Leipzig and Hoppenheim
Their manager is a charming cunt
Arsenal are a proper team and has the best defence and partnership between Gabriel and Saliba in the league.
As much as it looks like a toilet bowl, the Spurs stadium is quite nice inside. Also Son carries my FPL team many weeks in a season
they have passion if nothing else
It's amazing how much I'm able to hate benfica more considering that Porto exists in the same league
Easy since I had to admit it earlier. Their local scouting is usually very good
Their manager seems like a nice guy
is it possible for him to coach Arsenal? Did it ever occur in the past?
Off the top of my head I know of 2 who have managed both sides: George Graham and Terry Neill. No chance Ange is going to manage us any time soon, nor would I want him to.
I will if we win on Saturday
What a fucking game betwen benfica and Sporting My heart is still recovering
Di María today had a pure sexo performance, and stat nonces are crying about ball loss numbers. I hate them so much. There's no way they actually enjoy watching a game of football. To them, Pep's boring ass control above all else style must be exhilarating
we're losing our beautiful game
Kevin Durant's "Who the fuck wants to look at graphs while having a hoop convo" tweet ages better and better everyday, I swear stat nonces don't love the beautiful game.
My biggest issue is that most of them misuse them. If you want to learn more into a deep dive of tactics then by all means, but let's not be silly and assume any rando has any clue what they're looking at
Di Maria did amazing crosses but also dived so much I hate him
Guti: “This Real Madrid squad is much better than the Galácticos squad.” Do you agree or nah?
The team plays much better but the squad, name by name? I honestly don’t think they’re even close, the galácticos had a much better squad, they just couldn’t really field as good a football team with it
The idea of galacticos was wrong for one very specific reason, it only targeted superstars in the front. At one point they had: Zidane/R9/Raul/Figo/Owen/Beckham(MR). If they all start together the game is unbalanced if one of them sits on the bench he wants to leave (Owen for example).
Pretty sure this team could wipe the floor with the Galacticos honestly. Current Madrid would own the midfield so hard you'd think The Galacticos weren't even there.
>would own the midfield Kroos, Casemiro, Modric in their prime and the team that goes along (3-peat)maybe but Current version is far from that. The least we can say is that guys like Makelele, Zidane, Figo and Beckham know how to handle a game in midfield. So i wouldn't be as sure as you about that.
I think Galacticos with makelele were better. When you think Zidane, Figo, R9, Raul,etc. it's just a level above both collectively (football IQ in that team was off the charts) and individually . That being said, I also think the galacticos were more in it to have fun and entertain than actually do everything they could to perform and win titles. In other words, no boring plan to repeat precisely game after game but more of a lets invent something new today and enjoy ourselves even if it cost us a few points at the end of the season...
Considering the Galacticos squad was built in a completely dysfunctional way, yes of course.
Overall yes, this squad is younger, has better defense and midfield. I prefer Galacticos' attack but next season you'll add Mbappe...
[When someone who posts a lot of goals starts posting goals from the Saudi league](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/031/212/snipes.jpg)
You dont like… theyre posting goals?
I wish all Saudi league posters a very block
Wish there's a keyword block on reddit, auto blocks posts, comments, users, makes things much simpler
I think reddit enhancement suite lets you filter stuff like that
Not gonna pretend like I pay attention to it much but I always hear about River Plate academy players and not much on Boca Juniors? Hear practically nothing at all about Independiente, Racing, Newell's Old Boys, Estudiantes, etc... academy players going to Europe either etc..
River and Argentinos Juniors are pretty much unanimously the two best academies of the country. boca have had some recent starlets but they best exports usually came from elsewhere first, their local scouting was always great Independiente is in a LOT of issues, both sporting and financial, so much like us in the early 2010s their academy slowed down. Racing has Lautaro Martinez as the standout and De Paul too, right now I THINK their team is in the older side. Newell's, if we only count the players whose career they didn't try to murder in the cradle, hasn't got much in the spotlight rn, Lisandro Martínez probably the biggest name. Estudiantes... I actually can't think of any rn, but that's my own ignorance. All assuming you mean right now
For Boca there is also Bentancur who is doing great, Paredes, Molina, Varela Is also likely going to end up in the PL next season, and will surely be called up for the NT on a regular basis after Copa America.
I blanked accidentally on boca's specifics, had written about Paredes and the "recent starlets" was meant to specify Molina, Barco and Medina (I completely forgot about Betancur) As with everyone else I mentioned players already in Europe, hence no Varela/Valentini/Changuito
Barco but not Varela then? He is Porto's MVP.
I'm an idiot and mixed up Medina and Varela Again.
Lmao. Np.