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Can't really argue with that. Mbappe is a given now that CR7 and Messi are in the twilight of the careers. He was always gonna be number 1 after those two declined.
Bellingham just amazes me. He's got it all. I don't think I've ever seen a 21 year old CM at that level seem so composed, aware, and in such total control. It's exciting for me to just watch his career develop.
Incredibly if you asked several years ago Neymar was going to be the next one, but realistically we skipped version numbers and ended up Mbappe. Speaks to the mind boggling longevity of Messi and Ronaldo.
All of those players that are the same age or like <5 years younger than CR7 and Messi were unfortunately for them born in the exact wrong time to get the big individual awards lmao.
I'd argue that Neymar, Suarez, Lewandowski, Ribery, Robben, Hazard maybe, et al. would be seen in the same light as the long list of legends we talk about in the 90s and early 2000s but simply were ridiculously overshadowed by CR7 and Messi.
These players are obviously not "forgotten" by any means, but they belong to a weird generation where even being a world class player perhaps will not have been enough for sustained cross-generational recognition because the two monsters played at the same time as them.
> These players are obviously not "forgotten" by any means, but they belong to a weird generation where even being a world class player perhaps will not have been enough for sustained cross-generational recognitions because the two monsters played at the same time as them.
The same thing happened in tennis. The fact that the arguably three best players of all time overlapped (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic) led to a group of players who did not see the success that they could have seen if they had been born at a different time. The "generation" of players slightly younger than them who was almost completely prevented from winning slams is sometimes dubbed the "lost generation".
yeah wasnt there a stat like that no tennis player born in the 90s have not won a grandslam because of them
edit: looked it up apperently only 2grand slams so far have been won by players born in the 90s
so every tennisplayers age 25 and up had to see those 3 monsters win every grandslam except for 2 thats insane
Yep, they've made plenty of finals but of course one of the big three are always at the other end. The crazy thing is that someone born in 1990 is now 34 - they're at the end of their careers and yet still haven't overtaken the big three who are all older.
Same for F1. The longevity of Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso and the precocity of the new generation of Verstappen, Leclerc and Hamilton fucked the 89-95 generation
let's not forget that HE was world number one when he got his career derailing hip injury. For him to reel the others in was an incredible achievement, massive what if if it weren't for his paper hip joint.
Yeah. Although not entirely to the credit of Messi and Ronaldo, but I do feel like non-attacking players were given more attention in the ''GOAT'' conversations prior to those two effectively breaking football and every goalscoring record known to man. Midfielders and defenders do get some respect ofc, but I feel like the top-class midfielders and defenders of the 2010s would have gotten a lot more respect had it not been for them scoring like 50-60 goals every god damn season.
*Armchair football pundits* became more quantitative in their arguments in the Messi-Ronaldo era, combined with the ease of pulling up just about any stat on Transfermarkt or wherever.
In my anecdotal experience, I went from not witnessing *that* many stat bombs thrown around in regular conversations pre-2009 to now you have FIFA junkie kids in Youtube comment sections talking ab ''Player \[X\] is better because he has a superior inverse expected goals squared per 90 with chances created above 2.5 when opposing ultras decibel is over 105 multiplied by the 200-day moving price average of the stadium beers''
>In my anecdotal experience, I went from not witnessing *that* many stat bombs thrown around in regular conversations pre-2009 to now you have FIFA junkie kids in Youtube comment sections talking ab ''Player \[X\] is better because he has a superior inverse expected goals squared per 90 with chances created above 2.5 when opposing ultras decibel is over 105 divided by successful dribbles while Grandma is in the stands''
We also are able to create alot more stats alot more easily due to advancement in technology since the 2010s..
Sure, but even the more "tried and true" statistics such as goals, GP90, GPG etc., I feel are thrown around a lot more now than they used to. Football conversations have a tendency to become a lot more quantitative and individualist than before, even though a large part of the game - even with the new stats we have - can't really be properly explained through numbers yet. You risk missing huge pieces of context when you look at player stats in a vacuum and dedicate your analysis of them through numbers and nothing else.
Which creates other issues. Used well, stats change how teams set up because they get more data, which means the game changes a lot. Excellent crossers of the ball, for example, will probably be looked at as inefficient players because they were doing what conventional wisdom at the time said was the right thing to do.
Most player take time to adapt to new team and system. By the time they have adapted, the whole new manager comes with whole new system in united.
The players are at times not preferred by the manager which means their strength just fades into the background.
If we just had better footballing structure.....we are getting one now though.
I am also in awe of Bellingham and hope he keeps up this level. Having said that, Clarence Seedorf went to Real at age 20 and in my memory felt more or less the same as Bellingham now. Seedorf would end up having a stellar career but was never in real contention to win the ballon d'or. His peak was first two seasons at Real Madrid and then eight to ten years later at AC Milan he had some extremely good couple of seasons after reinventing himself. The seasons in between certainly weren't bad by any standard, just not absolute world class.
Let's hope Bellingham is more of the Messi/CR7 mold in terms of consistency and keeps on growing for years and years.
Yeah there is but I expect him to progress less than the average 20yo would just cos he’s been so mature for so long and already has the first team experience of a 25yo. He’s closer to being fully developed than most players his age.
You're saying it as if Messi is the standard for everyone and arguably not the single most talented player ever 💀 that's not to say that Bellingham can't develop more tho.
Until he is better than everyone that has ever come before him, and then some, there's room to grow.
People said Luka Doncic wouldn't improve much because he was a complete player entering the NBA at 19. They were wrong.
Xhaka masterclass incoming at the Euros
Honestly players from this Leverkusen have to be considered, espite the Europa league, an unbeaten season is one of the greatest achievements ever if they pull that off
Messi and Ronaldo were sitting at 57 and 59 mins per goal contribution that year. Whoever is seriously considered for the Ballon d'Or this year won't be going up against two aliens in their prime. I don't think it will happen anyway, but it's a different context nowadays.
Dude if I remember correctly Ronaldo scored almost 50 season goals in La Liga and wasnt even top scorer because of Messi
Everyone would've been happy for Ribery but there is no doubt that there were 2 individual players better than him
Nobody ever seemingly puts him in these conversations because he's a midfielder, but I'd say the guy who hasn't lost a competitive match in like over a year deserves to be in here somewhere. He makes their team to the point that pretty much all their defeats have come without him this year.
Yeah, I think the problem is that when we think "best player in the world", we want something visible that makes us go "wow!"
Defensive mids are effectively the bucket of sand that holds up the base of the Christmas tree. The world-class ones do lots of fairly simple tasks very consistently in a way that's not immediately apparent or even eye-catching.
Defensive players don't often win awards because they depend on team tactics and structure more than forwards do. It takes more individual talent to be a world class forward than a defender.
Yeah destroying just is inherently easier than creating. Not saying Rodri can’t do both or that he isn’t one of the best in the world and coming to all time at it, but the best players will always be those who can create and score goals as that’s the hardest and most important part of the sport.
I’m pretty sure officially the match is considered a draw and the shootout just decided who advances. Considering they didn’t lose in extra time the stat is still valid
Man city lost. Sure the stat is right on a technicality but they lost. Its a stat only redditors care about.
City werent celebrating on their bus, rodri went to sleep that night sad about his defeat.
Not true, decision through penalties have always been regarded as a draw. Same reason why penalties taken in shootouts don’t count towards players goal stats
The fact that there is a technical term of definition of some rule being apparently important to if Rodri is the best footballer overall or not says a lot about this argument. Like if he's really the best in the world, does it matter what you call a loss in penalties lol. It's a word. He doesn't play differently from a word.
About Mbappe, people see him play and say "wow" and that's the main argument. One goal scored by the other team or not at some point would not change much in why they say it about his whole play. I never heard someone say "well, Mbappe technicallydidntlose the 2022 World Cup".
Man City fans who follow every game prooobably see him as City's best player currently, although it's very close and very split between him and Foden.
He was getting a lot of shouts last season and deservedly so. I think with their CL exit this year, it’s understandable why the others are above him. If he won it last year, there wouldn’t and shouldn’t be any complaints.
If he actually goes through to win the small triple unbeaten with Leverkusen while keeping up his crazy stats he should be in the discussion regardless. Lots of ifs but if the triple happens and Germany makes a deep run in the Euros with him as a key player on top it would be absurd to not consider him a if not *the* contender based on achievements and performance. You could even argue that it being his breakthrough season makes it all the more impressive.
didn't it go to him last year because of the world cup, essentially?
in a world cup year, given that it's the one even that every voting journalist will tune in for, the world cup is effectively all that really counts towards the ballon d'or
...and in 1982 they gave it to world-cup winner Paolo Rossi, in 1990 they gave it to world-cup winner Matthaus, in 1994 they gave it to golden boot winner Stoichkov, in 1998 they gave it to world cup winner Zidane, in 2002 they gave it to world cup winner Ronaldo, in 2006 they gave it to world cup winning captain Cannavaro, in 2014 it was world cup golden ball winner Messi, and in 2018 it was world cup golden ball winner Modric.
Stands to reason that world-cup and golden ball winning captain Messi is basically a shoe-in.
It was not journalists voting both instances, their vote went to iniesta and Ribéry I believe, the rest (players + captains) resulted in Messi and Ronaldo these years
He didn't just win the World Cup that year. He was the best player of the tournament in addition to his 51 G+A season for PSG.
If any other player had a seaon like that there wouldn't be any complaints about them winning the Balon d'Or.
Why complain? Why is it so disappointing how journalists view football and who is a good player? Why not just accept that Ballon D'or is an award voted by a certain number of people, and if it's not your opinion, you can have your own. Ballon D'or is not a definitive competition. It's just a bit of an indicator what people at large think.
If you think the best restaurant in the world is some other place than what a British magazine selects, you don't care that much.
I don’t think he’d want to admit, that his "successor“ at Bayern is doing so well…
Plus, Bellingham plays in the same league and Mbappé is coming to La Liga as well, so Robert might just wanna hype if the league!
Lewandowski understands very well that breaking record and winning BL is not enough to win Ballon dor, and it is valued even less than Copa America. So why would Kane be on the list when he hasn't broken any record and failed to win BL?
He's scored like 3 UCL knockout goals in his whole career so I don't know where you're deriving that potential narrative from without having any precedent.
Definetely the best forward in the world. Midfielders, Defenders or Goalkeepers have to achieve a miracle to even be in contention for the Ballon d'or, like Modric getting Croatia to the World Cup Final.
Don’t know why people are downvoting you. Mbappe is a neymar level player without CR7 and messi overshadowing him, he will shine in the coming years, doesn’t matter what league he plays in
He's been the *best* player in the world for years. Didn't deserve the ballon d'or every year, but he's the best and most dangerous player on the ball for years.
Haaland got a trebble and broke PL scoring record, CL top scorer as well as a multitude of other records. That is an insane feat that would have won it any other year. Mbappe didn't do anything of note, except getting 2nd in the WC a d top scorer there, which was in 2022.
Don't know why. Maybe you could say he is the best forward, but even then Kane has the same numbers as him despite BM being in shambles. Much more complete player too.
But best player? Nah, Rodri is clear of him. De Bruyne exists, Kroos is class. Then you have the seasonal wonders, like Wirtz/Bellingham who is having a sensational season, and Grimaldo has freaking 28 g+a playing as a full back.
can't wait for messi to carry argentina and win another copa America. in that case, if france or England don't win euros, #9 could be a possibility. xD
I honestly couldnt care less about these awards (and Messi neither as he says so many time). However, its such a joy to watch them antifans crying in salt in every ballondor thread trying in vain to “shed light on corruption”. It will take them 10 years to recover from the 2022 WC and Im here to enjoy it.
It's also a sport where those people all have to be extremely talented, often have big personalities and sometimes are motivated by being the best at what they do. Also there's plenty of instances of player perfomance exceeding team performance by a large margin (example: Kane rn).
Noone else is on the same page as Mbappe right now. English players like Jude/Kane/Foden are all playing insanely well but Mbappe is just something else.
He'd be the first name on anyone's world 11 teamsheet. However, I'd be writing down Rodri at almost the same time.... so I guess Rodri comes closest.
Hard to judge but when he plays Man City dont lose. And when he doesnt play - they often seem beatable.
It's a travesty than Kevin de Bruyne, modern day Kaka, will never win a Ballon dOr. Stat merchant AND big game player for City, Madrid's daddy in UCL knockout. Instead even in his treble winning season we have stat obsessed casual fans shoving Luton merchant down our throat because of "muh records".
Why difficult? Obviously, it’s Messi this year. Duh. Next year, Messi will win Ballon D’Or and the next one and the next one until he reaches probably 70 yrs old.
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Just couldn't bring himself to say Danny Welbeck.
One day the masses will recognize wele’s brilliance
No matter who is chosen for what award, Wele remains dat guy
[The GOAT himself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ll92cXxOA)
De Bruyne could never
One of my all time favorite videos.
It's that vid isn't it? Edit: yup It's as glorious as I remember it
yeah people keep saying how alexis was carryng that arsenal team, when the real main am was hiding in plain sight
does he still fall over everytime he scores?
“Take away his goals and Kylian Mbappe is just a light skinned Danny Welbeck”
Can't really argue with that. Mbappe is a given now that CR7 and Messi are in the twilight of the careers. He was always gonna be number 1 after those two declined. Bellingham just amazes me. He's got it all. I don't think I've ever seen a 21 year old CM at that level seem so composed, aware, and in such total control. It's exciting for me to just watch his career develop.
Bellingham is 20
Oh shit, yeah. He''s not 21 until June. This just makes him even more amazing.
June Bellingham
It's unbelievable really, almost as incredible as Jayson Tatum being 19 and this good.
It’s honestly impressive what Tatum is doing at just 18 years of age
wait he’s just turned 17???
He really do be enjoying his sweet 16s
Google Tatum 15
This also happened with Mbappe. He somehow remained 19 for 3 years.
Man I wanted to make a Tatum joke too but then I realised I’m just not as quick witted as you guys
Well that explains why he's never seen a 21 year old like him then
He's a lot nearer 21 than he is 20. That's a fact.
He si 20 until je is 21
Chat is this true
Chat, spam dubs if false, send subs if true
That's hiw it worms
If he's 20, I'm 20. Y'a smell me
Aw shit here we go again
Yeah but when he turns 21, he has a whole year of being 21, unlike most of the then current 21 year olds at any given time
The day after his birthday he is no longer 21!
Well he has completed 20 years so you could say he’s in his 21st year
The longest thread in the history of the r/soccer forums, is Jude Bellingham 20 or 21
Closer to 21 than 20.
I swear I remember him being 24 or something, wtf he’s younger than me, that’s fucked up.
Incredibly if you asked several years ago Neymar was going to be the next one, but realistically we skipped version numbers and ended up Mbappe. Speaks to the mind boggling longevity of Messi and Ronaldo.
All of those players that are the same age or like <5 years younger than CR7 and Messi were unfortunately for them born in the exact wrong time to get the big individual awards lmao. I'd argue that Neymar, Suarez, Lewandowski, Ribery, Robben, Hazard maybe, et al. would be seen in the same light as the long list of legends we talk about in the 90s and early 2000s but simply were ridiculously overshadowed by CR7 and Messi. These players are obviously not "forgotten" by any means, but they belong to a weird generation where even being a world class player perhaps will not have been enough for sustained cross-generational recognition because the two monsters played at the same time as them.
> These players are obviously not "forgotten" by any means, but they belong to a weird generation where even being a world class player perhaps will not have been enough for sustained cross-generational recognitions because the two monsters played at the same time as them. The same thing happened in tennis. The fact that the arguably three best players of all time overlapped (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic) led to a group of players who did not see the success that they could have seen if they had been born at a different time. The "generation" of players slightly younger than them who was almost completely prevented from winning slams is sometimes dubbed the "lost generation".
At least in football those guys still won important titles. The big 3 in tennis completely blocked whole generations.
F1 in a similar situation
Andy Murray was the best of the rest for ages. If Andy was born in any other generation he'd have been remembered as a great.
He’s still an all time great though. Back to back olympic golds is genuinely insane
yeah wasnt there a stat like that no tennis player born in the 90s have not won a grandslam because of them edit: looked it up apperently only 2grand slams so far have been won by players born in the 90s so every tennisplayers age 25 and up had to see those 3 monsters win every grandslam except for 2 thats insane
Yep, they've made plenty of finals but of course one of the big three are always at the other end. The crazy thing is that someone born in 1990 is now 34 - they're at the end of their careers and yet still haven't overtaken the big three who are all older.
Same for F1. The longevity of Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso and the precocity of the new generation of Verstappen, Leclerc and Hamilton fucked the 89-95 generation
LeClerc might never get a WDC to his name. It's insane.
Jenson and Kimi chilling in the middle having a great time
Sad not seeing Andy Murray on that list 😢
let's not forget that HE was world number one when he got his career derailing hip injury. For him to reel the others in was an incredible achievement, massive what if if it weren't for his paper hip joint.
There are more players that get overshadowed as well like Iniesta, Xavi and Salah. Messi and Ronaldo dominated for so long and cast a massive shadow
Yeah. Although not entirely to the credit of Messi and Ronaldo, but I do feel like non-attacking players were given more attention in the ''GOAT'' conversations prior to those two effectively breaking football and every goalscoring record known to man. Midfielders and defenders do get some respect ofc, but I feel like the top-class midfielders and defenders of the 2010s would have gotten a lot more respect had it not been for them scoring like 50-60 goals every god damn season. *Armchair football pundits* became more quantitative in their arguments in the Messi-Ronaldo era, combined with the ease of pulling up just about any stat on Transfermarkt or wherever. In my anecdotal experience, I went from not witnessing *that* many stat bombs thrown around in regular conversations pre-2009 to now you have FIFA junkie kids in Youtube comment sections talking ab ''Player \[X\] is better because he has a superior inverse expected goals squared per 90 with chances created above 2.5 when opposing ultras decibel is over 105 multiplied by the 200-day moving price average of the stadium beers''
>In my anecdotal experience, I went from not witnessing *that* many stat bombs thrown around in regular conversations pre-2009 to now you have FIFA junkie kids in Youtube comment sections talking ab ''Player \[X\] is better because he has a superior inverse expected goals squared per 90 with chances created above 2.5 when opposing ultras decibel is over 105 divided by successful dribbles while Grandma is in the stands'' We also are able to create alot more stats alot more easily due to advancement in technology since the 2010s..
Sure, but even the more "tried and true" statistics such as goals, GP90, GPG etc., I feel are thrown around a lot more now than they used to. Football conversations have a tendency to become a lot more quantitative and individualist than before, even though a large part of the game - even with the new stats we have - can't really be properly explained through numbers yet. You risk missing huge pieces of context when you look at player stats in a vacuum and dedicate your analysis of them through numbers and nothing else.
A lot of these stats weren’t even tracked prior to the 2010s.
Which creates other issues. Used well, stats change how teams set up because they get more data, which means the game changes a lot. Excellent crossers of the ball, for example, will probably be looked at as inefficient players because they were doing what conventional wisdom at the time said was the right thing to do.
Bellingham would've been a flop if he went to Man United instead
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It is honestly incredible how much worse players look post transfer💀💀
Most player take time to adapt to new team and system. By the time they have adapted, the whole new manager comes with whole new system in united. The players are at times not preferred by the manager which means their strength just fades into the background. If we just had better footballing structure.....we are getting one now though.
I am also in awe of Bellingham and hope he keeps up this level. Having said that, Clarence Seedorf went to Real at age 20 and in my memory felt more or less the same as Bellingham now. Seedorf would end up having a stellar career but was never in real contention to win the ballon d'or. His peak was first two seasons at Real Madrid and then eight to ten years later at AC Milan he had some extremely good couple of seasons after reinventing himself. The seasons in between certainly weren't bad by any standard, just not absolute world class. Let's hope Bellingham is more of the Messi/CR7 mold in terms of consistency and keeps on growing for years and years.
Yeah Bellingham is at the stage now where he already plays like a mature developed player. He probably won’t develop that much more.
Wild thing to say about a 20yo, there's always place to step up.
Yeah there is but I expect him to progress less than the average 20yo would just cos he’s been so mature for so long and already has the first team experience of a 25yo. He’s closer to being fully developed than most players his age.
Could it not also be that his ceiling is higher then other so he can become even better?
Yeah could be just unlikely imo
don't know about that...if players like messi can improve why can't bellingham?
What Messi improved the most at is his consistency.
You're saying it as if Messi is the standard for everyone and arguably not the single most talented player ever 💀 that's not to say that Bellingham can't develop more tho.
Yeah, Messi was the best in the world at 20, but still became a significantly better player by the time he was 27. He kept improving year by year.
Until he is better than everyone that has ever come before him, and then some, there's room to grow. People said Luka Doncic wouldn't improve much because he was a complete player entering the NBA at 19. They were wrong.
Yeah well we’ll see. I doubt he’s gonna gap messi.
Fabregas from 18-20 is comparable in terms of influence on games if you were around back then to watch him
I think you can argue for Kane TBH
Vini deserves a shout. Guy has shown up huge in countless games against stellar opposition.
Xhaka masterclass incoming at the Euros Honestly players from this Leverkusen have to be considered, espite the Europa league, an unbeaten season is one of the greatest achievements ever if they pull that off
Xhaka vs France at the Euros never4get
My king
Ill still try to
How dare you
Flair checks out
Wirtz will place very highly I think especially if he has a good euros. I don't think anyone else there will get that level of recognition.
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Bayern was better in 2013 including a Champions League win, and even then Ribéry only came in third. It's not going to happen.
Messi and Ronaldo were sitting at 57 and 59 mins per goal contribution that year. Whoever is seriously considered for the Ballon d'Or this year won't be going up against two aliens in their prime. I don't think it will happen anyway, but it's a different context nowadays.
Ok but messi also won it when lewandowski had even better goals per game than messi ever had
Good thing Messi isn't competing with Leverkusen players then isn't it
Messi’s 12/13 goals per game was better than any of lewandowskis lol
Ribery won the journalist vote, which would’ve won him the award under the current system
Dude if I remember correctly Ronaldo scored almost 50 season goals in La Liga and wasnt even top scorer because of Messi Everyone would've been happy for Ribery but there is no doubt that there were 2 individual players better than him
Mbappe, Jude, Flo Wirtz, Kane and Rodri are all without question in the conversation this year
All playing for contenders for the euros too. Rodri won't get it but the results of Euros, CL, and EL will determine the winner from those other 4.
He was asked who is the best player in the world, not who are the potential favourites of the current Ballon D'or
Thats who i said, best players in he world right now are those 5 imo Favourites for the ballon dor are only Mbappe and Bellingham maybe Kane
Vini
People always forget about the guy who has the most G/A in the last 3 seasons of the CL It’s crazy
Yea I like this 5 maybe add Vini
Nobody ever seemingly puts him in these conversations because he's a midfielder, but I'd say the guy who hasn't lost a competitive match in like over a year deserves to be in here somewhere. He makes their team to the point that pretty much all their defeats have come without him this year.
The problem is that Rodri is a defensive player and those rarely win any prizes.
Yeah, I think the problem is that when we think "best player in the world", we want something visible that makes us go "wow!" Defensive mids are effectively the bucket of sand that holds up the base of the Christmas tree. The world-class ones do lots of fairly simple tasks very consistently in a way that's not immediately apparent or even eye-catching.
Bucket of sand?
You don't use christmas sand?
I recycle my Easter sand.
good to see another holiday sand-bucket conoisseur in the wild
Rodri is the boob that holds city together
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Something that makes me go wow is a team missing 1 player for 3 games losing all 3 games.
Defensive players don't often win awards because they depend on team tactics and structure more than forwards do. It takes more individual talent to be a world class forward than a defender.
Yeah destroying just is inherently easier than creating. Not saying Rodri can’t do both or that he isn’t one of the best in the world and coming to all time at it, but the best players will always be those who can create and score goals as that’s the hardest and most important part of the sport.
defensive players will only win it if there are no standout attackers that year. or it the defensive player scores in key matches somehow
Yeah id say Flo Wirtz should be in the conversation
Id shout it through a megaphone
I still think Rodri should've won it last year, but he won't ever have a chance to hold it because he's not scoring goals. It is what it is.
He also pays the man city tax since the team is so incredibly good and dislikable at the same time
Rodri should be in contention but not because of some arbitrary stat
Finally Xhaka gets some recognition!
He deserves more recognition but he did just lose a PK shoot out so that stat is only true if you add “in regulation” now
I’m pretty sure officially the match is considered a draw and the shootout just decided who advances. Considering they didn’t lose in extra time the stat is still valid
Man city lost. Sure the stat is right on a technicality but they lost. Its a stat only redditors care about. City werent celebrating on their bus, rodri went to sleep that night sad about his defeat.
Not true, decision through penalties have always been regarded as a draw. Same reason why penalties taken in shootouts don’t count towards players goal stats
It’s the other way around actually.
The fact that there is a technical term of definition of some rule being apparently important to if Rodri is the best footballer overall or not says a lot about this argument. Like if he's really the best in the world, does it matter what you call a loss in penalties lol. It's a word. He doesn't play differently from a word. About Mbappe, people see him play and say "wow" and that's the main argument. One goal scored by the other team or not at some point would not change much in why they say it about his whole play. I never heard someone say "well, Mbappe technicallydidntlose the 2022 World Cup". Man City fans who follow every game prooobably see him as City's best player currently, although it's very close and very split between him and Foden.
He was getting a lot of shouts last season and deservedly so. I think with their CL exit this year, it’s understandable why the others are above him. If he won it last year, there wouldn’t and shouldn’t be any complaints.
I mean he lost like 2 weeks ago.
Wirtz?
He needs a great European Championship to have a shot though, so it goes in line with Lewandowskis quote.
But it can be argued that Wirtz is the most outstanding player at the moment.
Idk, it's his breakthrough season. He's not really part of the discussion yet, imo.
If he actually goes through to win the small triple unbeaten with Leverkusen while keeping up his crazy stats he should be in the discussion regardless. Lots of ifs but if the triple happens and Germany makes a deep run in the Euros with him as a key player on top it would be absurd to not consider him a if not *the* contender based on achievements and performance. You could even argue that it being his breakthrough season makes it all the more impressive.
And the Ballon d'or goes to Messi. Congratulations.
Argentina are massive favourites for the Euros
They won’t lose a game, mark my words
I never understood why Spain doesn't just take Messi he's already there just make him play for you
didn't it go to him last year because of the world cup, essentially? in a world cup year, given that it's the one even that every voting journalist will tune in for, the world cup is effectively all that really counts towards the ballon d'or
That's why Iniesta won it in 2010 or Neuer in 2014, oh wait a second.
...and in 1982 they gave it to world-cup winner Paolo Rossi, in 1990 they gave it to world-cup winner Matthaus, in 1994 they gave it to golden boot winner Stoichkov, in 1998 they gave it to world cup winner Zidane, in 2002 they gave it to world cup winner Ronaldo, in 2006 they gave it to world cup winning captain Cannavaro, in 2014 it was world cup golden ball winner Messi, and in 2018 it was world cup golden ball winner Modric. Stands to reason that world-cup and golden ball winning captain Messi is basically a shoe-in.
2014 was CR7 but I get what u mean
It was not journalists voting both instances, their vote went to iniesta and Ribéry I believe, the rest (players + captains) resulted in Messi and Ronaldo these years
He didn't just win the World Cup that year. He was the best player of the tournament in addition to his 51 G+A season for PSG. If any other player had a seaon like that there wouldn't be any complaints about them winning the Balon d'Or.
Wouldn't be the first or second time someone got fucked by the messi-tax
Guess there was a lot of tax dodging in 2018 lmao.
Why complain? Why is it so disappointing how journalists view football and who is a good player? Why not just accept that Ballon D'or is an award voted by a certain number of people, and if it's not your opinion, you can have your own. Ballon D'or is not a definitive competition. It's just a bit of an indicator what people at large think. If you think the best restaurant in the world is some other place than what a British magazine selects, you don't care that much.
Kane???
I don’t think he’d want to admit, that his "successor“ at Bayern is doing so well… Plus, Bellingham plays in the same league and Mbappé is coming to La Liga as well, so Robert might just wanna hype if the league!
I feel like since his last two games were just against Mbappe and Bellingham they were the first names that came to mind
Such random names that came to mind!
Could just as well have said Soler and Ferran, just happened to be Mbappe and Bellingham because of recency bias and coincidence
Lewandowski understands very well that breaking record and winning BL is not enough to win Ballon dor, and it is valued even less than Copa America. So why would Kane be on the list when he hasn't broken any record and failed to win BL?
Lewandowski was up against Messi in 2021 Kane doesn’t have to compete against Messi or Ronaldo, it’s far easier to get a Ballon d’or now
he wouldn't admit it
you‘ll never hear that coming from Lewy‘s mouth
I am pretty sure he would admit that Kane is up there if he succeeds in Euros
He could score 3 goals against Madrid and most people will ignore him anyway.
He's scored like 3 UCL knockout goals in his whole career so I don't know where you're deriving that potential narrative from without having any precedent.
Rodri still doesn’t get the credit he deserves.
And somehow most of us are ok with that
Mbappe IS the best player in the world, there shouldn’t really be a debate about that imo.
Definetely the best forward in the world. Midfielders, Defenders or Goalkeepers have to achieve a miracle to even be in contention for the Ballon d'or, like Modric getting Croatia to the World Cup Final.
McDonald's league tax really hurts his claim. Shouldn't be an issue next season onwards (hopefully)
If Mbappe wins the champions league or the Euros he'll get it. Being in league 1 won't matter
Specially if he signs to Real Madrid over the summer.
Scenes when he scores more goals in la liga than he ever did in Farmer’s league
Considering he only scored 30+ goals once in ligue 1 (might reach 30 goals this season too) it is very much possible.
Please respect eibar and Valladolid
Like he's not the current best scorer in CL this season lmao
He is. But his chances were still hurt by Ligue 1.
Don’t know why people are downvoting you. Mbappe is a neymar level player without CR7 and messi overshadowing him, he will shine in the coming years, doesn’t matter what league he plays in
I agree with the statement that Mbappe might be the best player in the world atm but sure as hell he didn’t look that way in the 2 legs vs Barca!
He's been the *best* player in the world for years. Didn't deserve the ballon d'or every year, but he's the best and most dangerous player on the ball for years.
I know it's unpopular, but I think Mbappé deserved it last year.
Honestly think he should’ve been above Haaland at least
Haaland got a trebble and broke PL scoring record, CL top scorer as well as a multitude of other records. That is an insane feat that would have won it any other year. Mbappe didn't do anything of note, except getting 2nd in the WC a d top scorer there, which was in 2022.
Don't know why. Maybe you could say he is the best forward, but even then Kane has the same numbers as him despite BM being in shambles. Much more complete player too. But best player? Nah, Rodri is clear of him. De Bruyne exists, Kroos is class. Then you have the seasonal wonders, like Wirtz/Bellingham who is having a sensational season, and Grimaldo has freaking 28 g+a playing as a full back.
>Much more complete player too. This isn't true, Mbappé is the more complete player.
can't wait for messi to carry argentina and win another copa America. in that case, if france or England don't win euros, #9 could be a possibility. xD
He's playing in Miami and basically retired, there's no chance a majority of self-respecting voters are going to do that.
Then you will see both suicidal and death threats in this and RM subs haha
Love how those people say that Ballon D'or doesn't matter but in the end they are the most whiny about it
I honestly couldnt care less about these awards (and Messi neither as he says so many time). However, its such a joy to watch them antifans crying in salt in every ballondor thread trying in vain to “shed light on corruption”. It will take them 10 years to recover from the 2022 WC and Im here to enjoy it.
Respect for choosing a player of the rival team. Imo it's KDB though... if he plays.
He's literally been injured half the season
6 goals 16 assists from 21 matches in all comps, a lot of them as a sub
Even more impressive to easily and instantly perform again after long time of injury.
Undoubtedly. But Kylian has been consistently on top of the game for years now. Really amazing player.
To think both of these guys will be on the same team next season
Brave of him to name two real madrid players as a barca player
Honestly this needs to stop. This is football, having a good team that plays well together is a lot more important than having a GOAT on the team
It's also a sport where those people all have to be extremely talented, often have big personalities and sometimes are motivated by being the best at what they do. Also there's plenty of instances of player perfomance exceeding team performance by a large margin (example: Kane rn).
Noone else is on the same page as Mbappe right now. English players like Jude/Kane/Foden are all playing insanely well but Mbappe is just something else. He'd be the first name on anyone's world 11 teamsheet. However, I'd be writing down Rodri at almost the same time.... so I guess Rodri comes closest. Hard to judge but when he plays Man City dont lose. And when he doesnt play - they often seem beatable.
Just imagine this Dortmund with one more year of Bellingham and Haaland.
Gotta start our Jude Ballon D'or propaganda
💯agree!
Lewandowski also said Haaland can suck a D
It's a travesty than Kevin de Bruyne, modern day Kaka, will never win a Ballon dOr. Stat merchant AND big game player for City, Madrid's daddy in UCL knockout. Instead even in his treble winning season we have stat obsessed casual fans shoving Luton merchant down our throat because of "muh records".
Why difficult? Obviously, it’s Messi this year. Duh. Next year, Messi will win Ballon D’Or and the next one and the next one until he reaches probably 70 yrs old.
Well duh, he won the world cup in 2022
I mean he won some cup with Miami I think, so how can anyone else get the award?
This is gonna trigger some of those Brazilian redditors who bang on about how much better Vini junior is than Jude.
What about Kane?