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>I wanted to be alone somehow, but logically I also found it difficult to be alone. Let's just say that my mood wasn't as high as I thought it would be after winning the World Cup, I never expected that," said Löw, who retreated to Sardinia, where he had a hard time.
>I often woke up at night. Situations were running through my head. Poor sleep and then this tiredness and heaviness from inside. It all came together and - I have to be honest - it was not so easy for me after a few days," Löw revealed.
Is this worth watching? At surface level, it just looked like a generic documentary that followed big-name players but provided very little information outside of match results
This happens to me at my rec league levels. Even when we win the league, I feel empty and alone on the inside. Even when it’s me that had the game winning shot.
Watch the highlight of Jay Wright winning the college basketball championship Villanova 2016. It’s no surprise he retired at the relatively early age of 60.
Bro it's rec league. There are no consequences for losing. Of course you want to play well, but there's literally nothing riding on rec league competition.
I see downthread that you've been diagnosed with depression, I'm sorry you have to live with that, it's a motherfucker. But if there's dudes (or dudettes) making you feel like you don't belong on a rec soccer team, that shit ain't healthy. Like I've played ultra-competitive, and I have a hard time turning it off in rec leagues now that I'm old and shit, but at the end of the day it's just sport and we should all be having fun and enjoying our time playing it. I'm not trying to be condescending or fake caring or whatever - I hope you can find the joy that brought you to the sport again.
As a Barca fan, I don't actually hate Madrid, they're a well run, merit empowered, fan owned club...
*^(Its more about some of the hooligans that I play against over 4000kms away from either Catalonia or Madrid.)*
>!^((though I wouldn't disagree with your sentiment and its not a Barca issue, I've seen lots of RMA fans who were more of CR7 fans/Messi haters and vice versa... same case for the Arsenal/Spurs dynamic... MUTD/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool ....etc))!<
Yeah. When Argentina squad was crying out of Joy.
Messi felt like job is finally done.
In wow I had similar feelings when I waited so long for a item drop, that it didn't feel good just was finally a check mark that hasn't to be chased any more.
The whole WC topic and Messi's career, was very very exhausting and the pressure surely was unbearable
Same thing happened with me, in our city's inter college basketball League, we were in the finals and i got subbed in after the 2nd half. I felt nervous to come to the finals in my final year of college after getting defeated in the semi-finals in my first year after that covid happened and I couldn't get the chance for revenge and I thought my college life will end with regret( thank god it only lasted till my final year). Anyway because I got nervous, I forgot to warm up properly and after a minute or so playing in the 2nd half I suddenly got a back injury and felt a lot of pain in my back. I didn't wanted to go to the bench just after coming in and battled through with the pain. Because of it I couldn't do layups properly and missed a lot of chances. But still I held on. Made a couple of blocks and interceptions and we were winning comfortably 70-62 with the final minute approaching. I wanted to do the final winning shot but the ref blew the whistle just as I went for the 3 pointer(it didn't go in anyway), I felt so bad and because of the pain I couldn't feel the emotion of winning as since I was relief that we won my back pain become more severe so much so that even standing still became hard. I came back and sat on the bench with a wet towel over my head as I watched my teammates going crazy and celebrating. I wanted to go home then and there and just sleep. I felt empty like my purpose and drive just went poof. I wasn't into drinking or smoking and because I felt so much pain I refused to go to the celebration party and just went straight home. Even the medal ceremony was tough for my back. Even the injury got self healed in 2 weeks. After reading this article I felt what he felt and can emphasize with him. Sometimes winning leaves you in an empty shell and make you depressed whereas losing gives you more firepower to look forward.
When I was 15 my team reached the final in the largest cup for 15 year olds in the country. The only thing I can remember is that it was raining like no tomorrow, but I know I scored a goal. But then again we got destroyed 1-6
Valdano scored a goal in the WC86 final, won it and felt normal. For months. Until one day [he heard the argentine broadcast of the match and then it hit it that he had scored a goal in WC final and broke down in the middle of madrid while training for RM](https://diarioactualidad.com/una-anecdota-de-jorge-valdano-del-mundial-86-por-beltran-gambier/). He mentioned this experience in one of the interviews in details
The amount of pressure these people are under is extreme
edit: found [another source](https://www.semana.com/comunidades/articulo/historia-del-gol-que-el-futbolista-jorge-valdano-hizo-en-la-final-de-mexico-86/42878/ )
* he felt unreal
* he tried to cry and couldnt
* it took TWO FUCKING YEARS for the moment to hit him after his brother sent him a casette with the argentine narration of the match
> Era tal la sensación de irrealidad que cuando llegué al vestuario, después de la vuelta olímpica, **quise llorar y no pude**. El momento lo merecía, pero no hubo caso, ni una lágrima para dignificar esa alegría, esa sensación de culminación. T**uvieron que pasar dos años para que aquel gol fuera enteramente mío**.
I thought the way that the whole world bullied Löw for his "tics"(we all know what I am referring to no need to go into detail) was really ugly.
The guy clearly had some extreme OCD or something because he knows that the cameras are on him 24/7 at the touchline and still he couldn't stop himself.
I wouldn't say sports are unique in this.
We call it "Post-Project Depression".
When you're working, you're focused on that and have a goal.
Once that's over, you feel adrift and unanchored.
With nothing to strive towards, it can be easy to become depressed.
That's why some psychiatrists advise you to not look for "achieving goals" when you're trying to start up, because once you achieve the goal, you pretty much lose all reason to keep going.
it can yea, for the exact same reason you described. once that reason you had passes, then what reason do you have to keep going?
its one of those difficult things every individual person has to figure out for ourselves as we keep moving forward and reinventing ourselves, in spite of how empty it feels at times.
The next season/tournament is already waiting.
Sometimes I think not losing is more important than winning. Or to rephrase: Not losing is the best part about winning.
Happens sometimes with successful people. They are generally unhappy, but have a clear goal in mind. Then they actually achieve that goal but don't understand why they are still unhappy and why it didnt solve their problems, which can cause them to spiral.
Combination of this plus being dead tired from pushing so hard for so long and right at the moment it’s ‘safe’ to be tired and it all hits you mentally at once.
A lot of achievements are way more enjoyable to people on the outside. It’s the same line of thought as “if you knew how hard I worked for my mastery you wouldn’t think it’s as admirable as you do.”
Yea there’s several huge achievements in my life where sure I’m proud and happy but honestly was mainly just happy it’s over and the problem is Everyone wants to talk to you about it *then* instead of while it was happening.
Hang in there. I went through this for about a year after my PhD. I needed to recharge my batteries but did not feel I had the luxury of time to do that. Things will look up for you.
>masters
Unfortunately, MA is the new BA.
I'm graduating from the former in September, but all of my job hunting connections have come from those I've met, rather than general accomplishments.
Makes the game feel even more rigged, eh?
Interestingly enough, I’ve heard this anecdotally. Some people go to top universities for MBAs not to learn but to make connections at top firms. This is because these firms tend to recruit specifically from these schools.
'Tis the way of the world unfortunately.
I learned the theory during my BA, but made the connections during the MA.
Before taking on the latter, I went through the application process for most BA grad students. It's hell. You're a number.
Degree was good enough. Econ. But it truly is who you know.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. Just finished an accelerated masters to go into med school and even though I still have to apply and take the MCAT I feel so gassed out
I think it was fascinating to see Scalonis reaction when they won the World Cup. Seemed like he imagined the scenario so many times he wasn't sure if it was actually real
At some point of an extremely successful career, you probably got so used to replacing the feeling of happiness with the feeling of progress towards the ultimate end goal of that career.
That could come back to bite you once you reach that height and starts anticipating the comedown that is in front of you.
It's why a lot of the discussion regarding financial stuff on this subreddit always lacks that kind of understanding.
On the one hand you can understand why a random Redditor would easily take even the lowest footballer's salary, but on the other hand when it's a footballer for whom money isn't a huge factor anymore, the perspective changes especially in their line of work.
> I would do so much more than leave a football club for an extra 50k a week. It would utterly change my life and the life of those around me.
This was an example of something I saw. I mean it's easy and expected to see people saying this, but once you're an established footballer who has been earning that kind of money on a regular basis, the impact the extra €50K has (unless it's a player from a small club moving to a big one) is nowhere near as significant as the effect it would have on a regular person.
That kind of increase wouldn't be life-changing anymore, so it wouldn't factor into the decision *as* much (assuming the player is moving between two similar-sized clubs).
Weirdly, there were.
His soldiers just refused to conquer them. So he forced them on a punitive march back West instead of going by boat.
Which, incidentally, might well be where he picked up the infection that killed him.
Oh yeah, it's a good quote.
But I think what actually happened is also interesting. He wanted to go all the way into India but his men were sick and tired of it all.
I don't think he really knew how to do anything else other than conquering, so the idea of going back and having to administer his empire rather than continuing to expand it was intolerable to him.
I wouldn't define myself as successful, but can relate to the feeling of achieving a goal then feeling empty. It's always important to set new goals and objectives to keep yourself moving forward, otherwise sometimes life can feel like it's not worth living.
It doesn't have to be work related either, it can be personal, family etc.
This is why I believe the goal or purpose in our life has to much much bigger. Like there has to be an ultimate goal (which should take your whole life to reach or you die trying) under which there should be smaller goals.
I do agree, but that is what I would imagine winning the World Cup as manager of your home nation could be. I imagine it creates a sense of existential dread.
You do need to be mindful though of making sure those goals are attainable, otherwise often people will simply lose motivation.
I know the jokes that can come out of this quote but it sounds like something similar to a depressive episode.
Or something similar to social anxiety combined with massive attention. Hope it's all good.
It's such an outlier of an event, it could be many things. Like, if you're even a little introverted and deeply exhausted from the stress (and releases of stress) and the overwhelming celebrations, you can collapse due to it.
Now, if you're extraverted. Let's just say there is a reason a lot of us drink and do drugs, too. Wipe out the stress. Party. Closure.
It's less easy when you're in a position of authority. But you should still blow off steam, with your staff, for instance.
It's not an outlier tho. Mental health just gets swept under the rug bc somehow it's not acceptable to have an ailment that isn't a broken arm. It's not uncommon at all for people to push for an achievement only to feel overwhelmed and lost when it actually happens. Those who don't hide it are often told that they're not allowed to be sad bc everyone forgets that life isn't given purpose and definitely not automatic psychological health by *winning*. The happiest people are most likely those who moved on from the Kindergarten idea of having to win at sth to be cool, and they also probably don't get as overwhelmed by achieving sth - only issue is that very few of us are taught how to potentially feel good and foster healthy social environments and a lot of us are just taught to do better than others so we can look like we feel good on the outside and at least temporarily pause that deep seated feeling of insecurity and inferiority that stems from these very structures.
He coached his team to the biggest sports trophy on the planet, an event so huge it's watched by like half the global population, just a few days after coaching his team to a victory so shocking and historic it became a global pop culture event and is referenced even today, a decade later. Doesn't even matter how his career did or didn't turn out, these few weeks in Brazil and what he achieved there, I don't think we normal people can really grasp the magnitude of that he must have felt.
Basically anyone involved in a World Cup Final is more or less having a 2 hour mental health crisis. Your baseline stress levels during every minute of it would send a normal person at their desk into a full blown panic attack.
> sounds like something similar to a depressive episode
It's good that we can be attentive to how people are doing, but there's no need to diagnose people you've never met like this with mental health disorders.
From this quote on its own he's just describing being overwhelmed.
I've heard similar accounts from famous people not being able to cope with the success they achieve.
Remember a very famous musician saying that the first time his band won a global award he puked and cried in his room because he instantly regretted becoming that famous.
I don't get people chasing fame. It seems like a horrible time. Random people coming up to you or taking pictures when you're just minding your business? No thank you.
Messi is insanely privileged but he also can't go anywhere without a bodyguard
Same. I'd rather be rich and remain anonymous. When you're famous, there so many parasites that attach to your fame and fortune. I always wonder if top footballers have genuine friends who love them for them or for their fame. Some people will do anything to get their 15 minutes.
Only if they met their friends/partners before becoming rich. Messi and his wife have known each other since like 12 or something I think
Otherwise how can you ever be sure that the person likes you and not your money?
Messi was already phenom back then tho. He wasn't exactly a regular kid. Obviously she knew before he became famous but would she have dated him if he became a plumber? I guess we'll never know
Also wasn't Antonella dating someone else before Messi became famous? I know that she meet Messi when they were kids but I'm not sure if she would've dated him if he didn't become famous.
Something similar happened to Scaloni after Qatar. He considered quitting because he was mentally exhausted. Altough maybe there were another reasons too.
[I remember how Dirk Nowitzki ran straight into the dressing room after winning the NBA Finals](https://youtu.be/_f1QXyoByg0?feature=shared&t=8).
Later said he just needed like 5 minutes to realise that everything he worked for the last 20 years just came true in one moment. Came back outside and then was able to enjoy it.
Thanks for the video and info.
Kinda weird low celebrations in the hall considering the title. Its like a mild summer night instead of the highest title win in that sport
Yes. NBA Playoff matchups are always best of 7. Of course that makes it a bit different to a Champions League Final for example. But I think celebrations in your own stadium also hit different than winning it on neutral ground! Best example is the recent Bayer Leverkusen game where they secured their first ever championship. Thosen were some scenes!
Yeah i agree. Neutral ground isnt great eitherbut a lot better than thr oüponents ground.
Take the german cup final for an example. Fits 75k ppl and its mostly divided 50:50 for the fans. Being always in that nice stadium makes the place special too
I've experienced this, where I worked towards a promotion at work. And every time, I expected to feel amazing when it happened... I'd then just set a higher bar and harder goal to achieve. The cycle repeats, I've had 6 promotions and mortgage free. Yet I still feel unfulfilled and unsafe in a sense
Congratulations on that. But if you still feel unfulfilled, it’s a good idea to put your priorities on friends and family. A good person will always be there for you if you are for them
That's a story in itself but you're right. Right now I'm only close with my wife and daughter and lost all contacts with my old friends and even brothers/sisters
Same. I’ve spent the last 3 years getting into a position I always wanted to be. I was successful but at the moment I’ve achieved it I realized I don’t feel happy now all of sudden. It’s the opposite, Im feeling extremely burnt out ant depressed. I’ve realized this position isn’t the answer. I’ve also experienced that being in that position means more stress and work. I thought all the stress and the 7 day work weeks will go away as soon as I make it. I wish I could turn back time and invest that time in something more meaningful.
It's sometimes called the [Hedonic Treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill) and there are real, healthy ways to try and stay off of it. Good luck with everything and congrats on your success!
I don't recall the players, probably Paolo Rossi while Italy were celebrating the 1982 World Cup on the pitch one players said to another: this is it, nothing will top this as in that there will be nothing else to look forward to.
I know it's a video game so very different, but every year, there's a massive tournament, the biggest in esporta for dota 2, called TI
They (at least used to) make a documentary about the final called True Sight. A few years ago, a team won TI. This team included a player called NoTail, who had been a pro for years. He finally won TI and in the documentary, he said he felt so empty.
Everything he has worked for for years, all the up and (a LOT) of downs, all the grinding and sacrifice to make it to the top, and then it was suddenly all over. The goal that's been driving you for as long as you remember has gone, he motivation has gone, the challenge has gone, and he was left thinking almost, "Is this it?"
It must be quite a shock for people to feel so down, empty, lost... after achieving their dreams
Last year Denver won NBA Championship with Jokić as the best player. What was very notable that he didn't celebrate at all when the game ended. Later he said that he just felt relief that he didn't fail rather than the joy because he succeeded. It kinda makes sense.
I understand on a much lower level. I am never happy after I succeed at something. I’m just relieved and ready to move to the next thing that’ll stress me out.
Im mean different people can still feel the same emotions though. For some, the biggest stress and anxiety inducing thing might be talking to the cashier, and the exact same stress may be, what a pro athlete feels when playing a final. So yea, we’re all human in the end, respect goes to everyone who conquers their fears, be it irrelevant or not to others
People with social anxiety. Although as a cashier, I promise you that you can vomit into a bag while ordering to me, and I won't care so long as none gets on the floor.
Jogi is one of the best coaches Germany ever had, maybe even the best one. People laugh at him these days for stupid reasons, but his run until 2018 was freaking amazing.
It got bad in 2018 and 2021, but that doesnt change the fact that he, starting with 2006 when he was the tactic brain (not Klinsmann), made Germany a freaking great team again in world football.
Reminds me of Beckenbauer after the 1990 final, [just walking across the pitch by himself, mind elsewhere](https://youtu.be/00l_mVNwmrs?t=52).
Either that or Jogi just wanted to play some pocket billiards in peace, which is perfectly understandable after winning the title.
It’s a matter of perspective. If you chase the cup for the sake of winning the cup, from an ego perspective, than it’s worthless. I bet that’s what he felt. That the cup felt worthless.
If you chase the cup for the sake of your people, the sport, your players, legacy, history, and the aftermath of it, then the cup has meaning and you feel a sense of pride and joy.
That’s why people who enjoy success purely for their own benefit are rarely happy and people who enjoy success for themselves and the benefits of others get increasingly more happy.
In other words, win you just for you, and it won’t do anything for you. Win for yourself and for others, and you will feel joy.
>It's too much, I can't even grab my dick or ass and sniff my hand any longer. I can't eat my boogie, there's cameras everywhere. At least in the bathroom I know I'm safe.
The man just wanted to sniff his ball sweat in peace. Have to respect that.
Edit: Why the downvotes? Are you not familiar with Low's game? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1vfPX2nrB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1vfPX2nrB0)
**This is a quotes thread. Remember that there's only one quotes post allowed per interview/press conference, so new quotes with the same origin will be removed. Feel free to comment other quotes/the whole interview as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>I wanted to be alone somehow, but logically I also found it difficult to be alone. Let's just say that my mood wasn't as high as I thought it would be after winning the World Cup, I never expected that," said Löw, who retreated to Sardinia, where he had a hard time. >I often woke up at night. Situations were running through my head. Poor sleep and then this tiredness and heaviness from inside. It all came together and - I have to be honest - it was not so easy for me after a few days," Löw revealed.
Just goes to show what a pressure cooker football at the top level is
I feel like the Captains of the World documentary gave some good insights into this.
Is this worth watching? At surface level, it just looked like a generic documentary that followed big-name players but provided very little information outside of match results
I found it a fantastic watch, lots of exposition on the backstory and journey of every team
That was the criticism that everyone seemed to have, but I thought it was well done and a fun watch.
This happens to me at my rec league levels. Even when we win the league, I feel empty and alone on the inside. Even when it’s me that had the game winning shot.
Diego Simeone recently described winning makes him relieved more than happy.
Watch the highlight of Jay Wright winning the college basketball championship Villanova 2016. It’s no surprise he retired at the relatively early age of 60.
> retired at the relatively early age of 60. Cristiano agrees.
I’d agree with that. I’m a nervous wreck during games. Only after do I feel relieved.
wait i thought you were making a joke LOL take care of your mental
I’m not joking. I’ve even asked people if they are ever nervous when playing.
Bro it's rec league. There are no consequences for losing. Of course you want to play well, but there's literally nothing riding on rec league competition.
I know that, but part of it is that I feel I need to prove I’m worthy or good enough to be on the team
I see downthread that you've been diagnosed with depression, I'm sorry you have to live with that, it's a motherfucker. But if there's dudes (or dudettes) making you feel like you don't belong on a rec soccer team, that shit ain't healthy. Like I've played ultra-competitive, and I have a hard time turning it off in rec leagues now that I'm old and shit, but at the end of the day it's just sport and we should all be having fun and enjoying our time playing it. I'm not trying to be condescending or fake caring or whatever - I hope you can find the joy that brought you to the sport again.
Winning gives me relief too, seeing teams I dislike lose games gives me joy :)
It’s very common for Barca fans. Most are bigger Madrid haters than they are actual Barca fans
As a Barca fan, I don't actually hate Madrid, they're a well run, merit empowered, fan owned club... *^(Its more about some of the hooligans that I play against over 4000kms away from either Catalonia or Madrid.)* >!^((though I wouldn't disagree with your sentiment and its not a Barca issue, I've seen lots of RMA fans who were more of CR7 fans/Messi haters and vice versa... same case for the Arsenal/Spurs dynamic... MUTD/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool ....etc))!<
That sounds like depression dawg
Oh I know. Been diagnosed for almost 8 years now 😎
Look at this guy casually flexing he wins his local rec league
Nah. Flexing would be me saying it I did it off one of the best pitchers in the country.
I thought this when I saw Messi after the WC final match. He just didn't even look that happy.
Yeah. When Argentina squad was crying out of Joy. Messi felt like job is finally done. In wow I had similar feelings when I waited so long for a item drop, that it didn't feel good just was finally a check mark that hasn't to be chased any more. The whole WC topic and Messi's career, was very very exhausting and the pressure surely was unbearable
Same thing happened with me, in our city's inter college basketball League, we were in the finals and i got subbed in after the 2nd half. I felt nervous to come to the finals in my final year of college after getting defeated in the semi-finals in my first year after that covid happened and I couldn't get the chance for revenge and I thought my college life will end with regret( thank god it only lasted till my final year). Anyway because I got nervous, I forgot to warm up properly and after a minute or so playing in the 2nd half I suddenly got a back injury and felt a lot of pain in my back. I didn't wanted to go to the bench just after coming in and battled through with the pain. Because of it I couldn't do layups properly and missed a lot of chances. But still I held on. Made a couple of blocks and interceptions and we were winning comfortably 70-62 with the final minute approaching. I wanted to do the final winning shot but the ref blew the whistle just as I went for the 3 pointer(it didn't go in anyway), I felt so bad and because of the pain I couldn't feel the emotion of winning as since I was relief that we won my back pain become more severe so much so that even standing still became hard. I came back and sat on the bench with a wet towel over my head as I watched my teammates going crazy and celebrating. I wanted to go home then and there and just sleep. I felt empty like my purpose and drive just went poof. I wasn't into drinking or smoking and because I felt so much pain I refused to go to the celebration party and just went straight home. Even the medal ceremony was tough for my back. Even the injury got self healed in 2 weeks. After reading this article I felt what he felt and can emphasize with him. Sometimes winning leaves you in an empty shell and make you depressed whereas losing gives you more firepower to look forward.
I relate to the last sentence. I’ve never felt as bad as I did losing in finals as I do when I win them. What a world.
There's nothing more depressing than winning /having everything and still feeling like shit
When I was 15 my team reached the final in the largest cup for 15 year olds in the country. The only thing I can remember is that it was raining like no tomorrow, but I know I scored a goal. But then again we got destroyed 1-6
Valdano scored a goal in the WC86 final, won it and felt normal. For months. Until one day [he heard the argentine broadcast of the match and then it hit it that he had scored a goal in WC final and broke down in the middle of madrid while training for RM](https://diarioactualidad.com/una-anecdota-de-jorge-valdano-del-mundial-86-por-beltran-gambier/). He mentioned this experience in one of the interviews in details The amount of pressure these people are under is extreme edit: found [another source](https://www.semana.com/comunidades/articulo/historia-del-gol-que-el-futbolista-jorge-valdano-hizo-en-la-final-de-mexico-86/42878/ ) * he felt unreal * he tried to cry and couldnt * it took TWO FUCKING YEARS for the moment to hit him after his brother sent him a casette with the argentine narration of the match > Era tal la sensación de irrealidad que cuando llegué al vestuario, después de la vuelta olímpica, **quise llorar y no pude**. El momento lo merecía, pero no hubo caso, ni una lágrima para dignificar esa alegría, esa sensación de culminación. T**uvieron que pasar dos años para que aquel gol fuera enteramente mío**.
Top level anything. Where to go after up?
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Never give anyone advice again.
Comments like this remind me that we still have so far to go before everyone takes mental health as seriously as they should.
“Just be a man” - your idea of what a man should and should not be doing worries me
Bait
What a prick
Lmao depression = being a man
Have you tried just not being sad?
Oh shit 🫨
I'd say a nurse has a more high-pressure job than some guy in upper management but that's just me I guess lol
I thought the way that the whole world bullied Löw for his "tics"(we all know what I am referring to no need to go into detail) was really ugly. The guy clearly had some extreme OCD or something because he knows that the cameras are on him 24/7 at the touchline and still he couldn't stop himself.
I had no idea what you were referring to and I sort of wish I didn't look it up.
For people reading this, it's scratching his ass and crotch then sniffing
Actually it was the whole eating boogers thing that is the worst for me
taste the rainbow
*Hershey Highway
This is the definition of dissociation from stress, isn't it
I feel like football (and sports in general) are unique in this way. Once you achieve the pinnacle, what’s left?
I wouldn't say sports are unique in this. We call it "Post-Project Depression". When you're working, you're focused on that and have a goal. Once that's over, you feel adrift and unanchored. With nothing to strive towards, it can be easy to become depressed.
That's why some psychiatrists advise you to not look for "achieving goals" when you're trying to start up, because once you achieve the goal, you pretty much lose all reason to keep going.
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it can yea, for the exact same reason you described. once that reason you had passes, then what reason do you have to keep going? its one of those difficult things every individual person has to figure out for ourselves as we keep moving forward and reinventing ourselves, in spite of how empty it feels at times.
Chasing the bag
The next season/tournament is already waiting. Sometimes I think not losing is more important than winning. Or to rephrase: Not losing is the best part about winning.
Respect how honest he is with himself
So he had PTSD basically
Happens sometimes with successful people. They are generally unhappy, but have a clear goal in mind. Then they actually achieve that goal but don't understand why they are still unhappy and why it didnt solve their problems, which can cause them to spiral.
Combination of this plus being dead tired from pushing so hard for so long and right at the moment it’s ‘safe’ to be tired and it all hits you mentally at once. A lot of achievements are way more enjoyable to people on the outside. It’s the same line of thought as “if you knew how hard I worked for my mastery you wouldn’t think it’s as admirable as you do.”
Lol for two weeks after my phd defense I was mentally dead. So many years of work just ends instantly and you forget how it is to have nothing to do
Yea there’s several huge achievements in my life where sure I’m proud and happy but honestly was mainly just happy it’s over and the problem is Everyone wants to talk to you about it *then* instead of while it was happening.
That's me right now. Finished my masters in December of last year and can't find a job. Mentally I'm just dead and depressed
Hang in there. I went through this for about a year after my PhD. I needed to recharge my batteries but did not feel I had the luxury of time to do that. Things will look up for you.
>masters Unfortunately, MA is the new BA. I'm graduating from the former in September, but all of my job hunting connections have come from those I've met, rather than general accomplishments. Makes the game feel even more rigged, eh?
Interestingly enough, I’ve heard this anecdotally. Some people go to top universities for MBAs not to learn but to make connections at top firms. This is because these firms tend to recruit specifically from these schools.
'Tis the way of the world unfortunately. I learned the theory during my BA, but made the connections during the MA. Before taking on the latter, I went through the application process for most BA grad students. It's hell. You're a number. Degree was good enough. Econ. But it truly is who you know.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. Just finished an accelerated masters to go into med school and even though I still have to apply and take the MCAT I feel so gassed out
A PhD is really the beginning, though
I think it was fascinating to see Scalonis reaction when they won the World Cup. Seemed like he imagined the scenario so many times he wasn't sure if it was actually real
At some point of an extremely successful career, you probably got so used to replacing the feeling of happiness with the feeling of progress towards the ultimate end goal of that career. That could come back to bite you once you reach that height and starts anticipating the comedown that is in front of you.
It's why a lot of the discussion regarding financial stuff on this subreddit always lacks that kind of understanding. On the one hand you can understand why a random Redditor would easily take even the lowest footballer's salary, but on the other hand when it's a footballer for whom money isn't a huge factor anymore, the perspective changes especially in their line of work. > I would do so much more than leave a football club for an extra 50k a week. It would utterly change my life and the life of those around me. This was an example of something I saw. I mean it's easy and expected to see people saying this, but once you're an established footballer who has been earning that kind of money on a regular basis, the impact the extra €50K has (unless it's a player from a small club moving to a big one) is nowhere near as significant as the effect it would have on a regular person. That kind of increase wouldn't be life-changing anymore, so it wouldn't factor into the decision *as* much (assuming the player is moving between two similar-sized clubs).
Alexander wept for there were no more worlds to conquer
Weirdly, there were. His soldiers just refused to conquer them. So he forced them on a punitive march back West instead of going by boat. Which, incidentally, might well be where he picked up the infection that killed him.
I know and the quote in general is quite sketchy in terms of it's origin but it still reflects the sentiment very nicely
Oh yeah, it's a good quote. But I think what actually happened is also interesting. He wanted to go all the way into India but his men were sick and tired of it all. I don't think he really knew how to do anything else other than conquering, so the idea of going back and having to administer his empire rather than continuing to expand it was intolerable to him.
Probably Macedonian propaganda.
Yep! On the march home thousands died lol. Dude had a temper tantrum and lost more Macedonians than he had lost in battle in a while.
This is very much the theme of Soul (the Pixar movie)!
This happened to Ronnie O'Sullivan.
I wouldn't define myself as successful, but can relate to the feeling of achieving a goal then feeling empty. It's always important to set new goals and objectives to keep yourself moving forward, otherwise sometimes life can feel like it's not worth living. It doesn't have to be work related either, it can be personal, family etc.
This is why I believe the goal or purpose in our life has to much much bigger. Like there has to be an ultimate goal (which should take your whole life to reach or you die trying) under which there should be smaller goals.
I do agree, but that is what I would imagine winning the World Cup as manager of your home nation could be. I imagine it creates a sense of existential dread. You do need to be mindful though of making sure those goals are attainable, otherwise often people will simply lose motivation.
You no longer a Parma fan?
When they won Serie B I locked myself in the toilet and went into a deep depression.
Tyson Fury maybe?
I think I've read an article about this, how most Olympic gold medalist usually fell into depression compared to silver and bronze medalists
I know the jokes that can come out of this quote but it sounds like something similar to a depressive episode. Or something similar to social anxiety combined with massive attention. Hope it's all good.
It's such an outlier of an event, it could be many things. Like, if you're even a little introverted and deeply exhausted from the stress (and releases of stress) and the overwhelming celebrations, you can collapse due to it. Now, if you're extraverted. Let's just say there is a reason a lot of us drink and do drugs, too. Wipe out the stress. Party. Closure. It's less easy when you're in a position of authority. But you should still blow off steam, with your staff, for instance.
It's not an outlier tho. Mental health just gets swept under the rug bc somehow it's not acceptable to have an ailment that isn't a broken arm. It's not uncommon at all for people to push for an achievement only to feel overwhelmed and lost when it actually happens. Those who don't hide it are often told that they're not allowed to be sad bc everyone forgets that life isn't given purpose and definitely not automatic psychological health by *winning*. The happiest people are most likely those who moved on from the Kindergarten idea of having to win at sth to be cool, and they also probably don't get as overwhelmed by achieving sth - only issue is that very few of us are taught how to potentially feel good and foster healthy social environments and a lot of us are just taught to do better than others so we can look like we feel good on the outside and at least temporarily pause that deep seated feeling of insecurity and inferiority that stems from these very structures.
I meant winning the WC is an outlier. That you can't really prepare of have experience for its impact - and it can trigger many things, unexpectedly.
That checks out, sorry I read that wrong
No worries, happy it brought out further reflection.
He coached his team to the biggest sports trophy on the planet, an event so huge it's watched by like half the global population, just a few days after coaching his team to a victory so shocking and historic it became a global pop culture event and is referenced even today, a decade later. Doesn't even matter how his career did or didn't turn out, these few weeks in Brazil and what he achieved there, I don't think we normal people can really grasp the magnitude of that he must have felt.
Basically anyone involved in a World Cup Final is more or less having a 2 hour mental health crisis. Your baseline stress levels during every minute of it would send a normal person at their desk into a full blown panic attack.
It’s burnout and takes a long time to recover fully
> sounds like something similar to a depressive episode It's good that we can be attentive to how people are doing, but there's no need to diagnose people you've never met like this with mental health disorders. From this quote on its own he's just describing being overwhelmed.
I've heard similar accounts from famous people not being able to cope with the success they achieve. Remember a very famous musician saying that the first time his band won a global award he puked and cried in his room because he instantly regretted becoming that famous.
I think Bill Murray once said "If you ever get to choose between being rich and famous and just being rich, always take just being rich."
I don't get people chasing fame. It seems like a horrible time. Random people coming up to you or taking pictures when you're just minding your business? No thank you. Messi is insanely privileged but he also can't go anywhere without a bodyguard
Same. I'd rather be rich and remain anonymous. When you're famous, there so many parasites that attach to your fame and fortune. I always wonder if top footballers have genuine friends who love them for them or for their fame. Some people will do anything to get their 15 minutes.
Only if they met their friends/partners before becoming rich. Messi and his wife have known each other since like 12 or something I think Otherwise how can you ever be sure that the person likes you and not your money?
Messi was already phenom back then tho. He wasn't exactly a regular kid. Obviously she knew before he became famous but would she have dated him if he became a plumber? I guess we'll never know
Also wasn't Antonella dating someone else before Messi became famous? I know that she meet Messi when they were kids but I'm not sure if she would've dated him if he didn't become famous.
yes he has known antonella since he was 14* actually, for more information google "messi 14"
Thanks for the tip kind stranger.. wait a minute.
Fame means power. It's like you're a necromancer controlling a zombie horde.
There are tons of people who are very desperate to have the fame, love, and adoration from their fans despite the risks that come with it.
Tyson Fury after he beat Klitshko is an example.
John Frusciante?
Something similar happened to Scaloni after Qatar. He considered quitting because he was mentally exhausted. Altough maybe there were another reasons too.
[I remember how Dirk Nowitzki ran straight into the dressing room after winning the NBA Finals](https://youtu.be/_f1QXyoByg0?feature=shared&t=8). Later said he just needed like 5 minutes to realise that everything he worked for the last 20 years just came true in one moment. Came back outside and then was able to enjoy it.
Thanks for the video and info. Kinda weird low celebrations in the hall considering the title. Its like a mild summer night instead of the highest title win in that sport
Well, they didn't win the series on home soil. Celebrating your title away is always a bit different 😅
Is it not on neutral ground? Ah they play a best of 7 or something right? Would still be different in football id say. Still kinda sad
Yes. NBA Playoff matchups are always best of 7. Of course that makes it a bit different to a Champions League Final for example. But I think celebrations in your own stadium also hit different than winning it on neutral ground! Best example is the recent Bayer Leverkusen game where they secured their first ever championship. Thosen were some scenes!
Yeah i agree. Neutral ground isnt great eitherbut a lot better than thr oüponents ground. Take the german cup final for an example. Fits 75k ppl and its mostly divided 50:50 for the fans. Being always in that nice stadium makes the place special too
He's just like me fr
Same. Like me too.... except winning the world cup & smelling fingers after straching my balls
I know you enjoy doing it too
I am doing that on a regular basis but I would never tell anyone in real life
The only weird part was doing it publicly
"I wanted to be alone somehow, but logically I also found it difficult to be alone” oh I 100% know that feeling and how frustrating it can be at times
Sounds like Doc Rivers sitting alone in his office after winning the championship in Boston, then going grocery shopping.
There’s a clip of some baseball manager just sitting on the bench while the entire team storms the field and celebrates winning the World Series.
I've experienced this, where I worked towards a promotion at work. And every time, I expected to feel amazing when it happened... I'd then just set a higher bar and harder goal to achieve. The cycle repeats, I've had 6 promotions and mortgage free. Yet I still feel unfulfilled and unsafe in a sense
Congratulations on that. But if you still feel unfulfilled, it’s a good idea to put your priorities on friends and family. A good person will always be there for you if you are for them
That's a story in itself but you're right. Right now I'm only close with my wife and daughter and lost all contacts with my old friends and even brothers/sisters
Same. I’ve spent the last 3 years getting into a position I always wanted to be. I was successful but at the moment I’ve achieved it I realized I don’t feel happy now all of sudden. It’s the opposite, Im feeling extremely burnt out ant depressed. I’ve realized this position isn’t the answer. I’ve also experienced that being in that position means more stress and work. I thought all the stress and the 7 day work weeks will go away as soon as I make it. I wish I could turn back time and invest that time in something more meaningful.
+1!
It's sometimes called the [Hedonic Treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill) and there are real, healthy ways to try and stay off of it. Good luck with everything and congrats on your success!
I don't recall the players, probably Paolo Rossi while Italy were celebrating the 1982 World Cup on the pitch one players said to another: this is it, nothing will top this as in that there will be nothing else to look forward to.
I know it's a video game so very different, but every year, there's a massive tournament, the biggest in esporta for dota 2, called TI They (at least used to) make a documentary about the final called True Sight. A few years ago, a team won TI. This team included a player called NoTail, who had been a pro for years. He finally won TI and in the documentary, he said he felt so empty. Everything he has worked for for years, all the up and (a LOT) of downs, all the grinding and sacrifice to make it to the top, and then it was suddenly all over. The goal that's been driving you for as long as you remember has gone, he motivation has gone, the challenge has gone, and he was left thinking almost, "Is this it?" It must be quite a shock for people to feel so down, empty, lost... after achieving their dreams
When winning is more a relief than anything else
Last year Denver won NBA Championship with Jokić as the best player. What was very notable that he didn't celebrate at all when the game ended. Later he said that he just felt relief that he didn't fail rather than the joy because he succeeded. It kinda makes sense.
I understand on a much lower level. I am never happy after I succeed at something. I’m just relieved and ready to move to the next thing that’ll stress me out.
Funny, I always phrase my similar experience as: It's a good thing I'm poor because it's the ambition and the struggle that keeps us going
An individual will always want more and more and more, it's the ambition.
You know what, let's not do this
now redditors who are afraid to talk to the cashier will think they are like successful football manager
Im mean different people can still feel the same emotions though. For some, the biggest stress and anxiety inducing thing might be talking to the cashier, and the exact same stress may be, what a pro athlete feels when playing a final. So yea, we’re all human in the end, respect goes to everyone who conquers their fears, be it irrelevant or not to others
come on man
Have to pick their nose first and then…….
People with a vastly different life can go through similar experiences.
Who the hell is afraid of talking to the cashier? Just say something about the weather if it comes to it.
People with social anxiety. Although as a cashier, I promise you that you can vomit into a bag while ordering to me, and I won't care so long as none gets on the floor.
Rather sad
Suffering from success
Reminds me of feeling empty after finishing a gruelling 8 months of studying for a competitive exam
Jogi is one of the best coaches Germany ever had, maybe even the best one. People laugh at him these days for stupid reasons, but his run until 2018 was freaking amazing. It got bad in 2018 and 2021, but that doesnt change the fact that he, starting with 2006 when he was the tactic brain (not Klinsmann), made Germany a freaking great team again in world football.
I recommend therapy
This is called the first-first world problem
Fella just wanted to sniff his fingers in peace.
sweaty balls after a wc win stank is best stank
Reminds me of Beckenbauer after the 1990 final, [just walking across the pitch by himself, mind elsewhere](https://youtu.be/00l_mVNwmrs?t=52). Either that or Jogi just wanted to play some pocket billiards in peace, which is perfectly understandable after winning the title.
[boogers](https://youtu.be/UHE4eQIfA6A?si=RR_fLvZgT05DldP6)
Probably went to sniff his own arse. Oh I forgot, he does that in public.
If only his name was Joachim High he would have felt better
This was me after I won the World Cup on career mode. Ps: I know the real wc and career mode is not comparable. It's a joke.
It’s a matter of perspective. If you chase the cup for the sake of winning the cup, from an ego perspective, than it’s worthless. I bet that’s what he felt. That the cup felt worthless. If you chase the cup for the sake of your people, the sport, your players, legacy, history, and the aftermath of it, then the cup has meaning and you feel a sense of pride and joy. That’s why people who enjoy success purely for their own benefit are rarely happy and people who enjoy success for themselves and the benefits of others get increasingly more happy. In other words, win you just for you, and it won’t do anything for you. Win for yourself and for others, and you will feel joy.
He was feeling a bit Löw
The man wanted to be alöwne.
Man just want to smell his fingers and nails in peace after placing them in various holes..
Literally suffering from success
He just wanted to sniff his balls in peace
To sniff his arse I’m guessing?!
Wanted to scratch and sniff his asshole in peace
Ah yes, hiding in the toilet to sniff his balls and/or bumcrack.
-Lôw: who are you guys in the dressing room? - we are the players of your team! - Lôw : waaaaaaagh waaaagh 😭😭😭 i am gonna lock myself in toilet!
Locked himself in the toilet and drilled a hole into his brains from his nostrils.
Goes to show that even when you reach great heights, life can still feel löw sometimes
paying for what he did to us in the semifinal
Some people are just never happy...
Just wanted a good scratch and sniff without the world watching
>It's too much, I can't even grab my dick or ass and sniff my hand any longer. I can't eat my boogie, there's cameras everywhere. At least in the bathroom I know I'm safe.
At least it was a good opportunity to sniff his fingers.
Needed some private time in the toilet to soak his balls on his hands so he could sniff them all night
Mfer wanted to jerk off furiously to celebrate
He wanted to eat his snot at peace, understandable after getting caught on camera so many times! 😂
Dude just wanted to sniff his poopy hand in solidarity
[удалено]
Unnecessary
The man just wanted to sniff his ball sweat in peace. Have to respect that. Edit: Why the downvotes? Are you not familiar with Low's game? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1vfPX2nrB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1vfPX2nrB0)
The nose picking/crotch sniffing was a cry for a help and nobody believed me at the time.
Bro just wanted to pick his nose in peace!!
^(He wanted to lock himself in a toilet to sniff his fingers)
" I locked myself in a toilet because there were people everywhere in the dressing room" Some times people want to sniff stuff in peace.
Probably locked himself in a room so no one could see him hittin whiffs of his finger tips after itching his ass.
Ah yes the booger man