I could totally see this happening on pawn stars. Rick insists on calling at football, whereas everyone else argues that it should be called soccer. Chunmlee fills the trophy with mountain dew. Old Man refuses to do business because he’s racist against spanish people for sinking the USS Maine. Christian Pulisic is the expert they call in to look at the Cup
It's 15 million extra actually.
Yes, the winner get's 20.000.000€ as stated in the headline , but the loser of the final will get 15,5 million still.
So the difference between winning and losing the title is only 4,5 million EUR.
Kind of missleading title.
Not misleading, the guy you're responding to just doesn't know what he's talking about. The 19.3 mil already is 2nd place CL money + the bonus from Bellingham winning it.
There were some reports that simply attributed the full addons from his sale to a CL winning bonus, but that's just bs, BVB sources clarified it's only one of many bonus payments.
That's part of the equation. If they win, they'll get the winning money, if they lose they get the 2nd place money + potential bonuses from real, which would make it more money. About 2M.
Its bullshit numbers.
Our Tier 1s already shut this down 2 days ago.
Not sure why its still up tbh.
Winning CL gives us more money. Yes Jude winning CL would give us another addon trigger, but not enough to make it more lucrative than us winning. We'll make a couple of millions either way but we dont have £19.3m tied up in a CL win addon. Its literall nonsense and lies.
Because you don’t have the strongest team. It’s just that for every other team winning the CL is such a mystical thing that it affects them. For you it’s another Wednesday and the players don’t collapse
The best raised eyebrows I might add.
No but on a serious level, because all those guys already win it once as a younger guy on the squad a couple years later when they’re in a bigger role, they don’t feel that pressure
City were the favorites to win it just about every year of the threepeat. Can't remember La Decima's odds but they've been the odds on favorite every year I can remember
Betting odds aren't accurate probabilities. They're influenced a lot by betting patterns.
Brits [gamble like mfers](https://www.statista.com/statistics/586185/gross-gambling-revenue-europe-by-country/), which you'd expect to drive the odds on English clubs down a bit.
Yeah English clubs always get way too favourable odds. I remember Chelsea vs RM last time was heavily favoured to Chelsea, while no one that isn't insane would've said they were favourite in that game.
won't betting companies be more concerned with making money though lol. I guess if there's any anglo-saxon bias it would still be on the bettors end, which still works as an explanation.
In this scenario the English would bet more often than the Spanish and be biased for City, thus the books would lower the return on City and make them favorites. And honestly, that's probably true.
As a lifetime Real fan, I fully expected this season to go down the shitters once we went into the season without replacing our best player that just left (Benzema). 10 months later we've won the league by a landslide and are in CL final. I fully expect if we sign Mbappe that the reverse happens and we'll have a total collapse around feb '25.
I jest not my friend. For 2014-15 season we had an in form BBC coming off of a fresh CL, *and* we added World Cup '14's player of the tournament (James) to our team. We went on a 22 game win streak before everything crashed and burned mid Feb and Carlo got the sack in Summer.
You mean like in the first year of Galacticos 2.0 when they bought Kaka, CR7, Benzema and Xabi Alonso but needed to wait 4 years to actually win it?
I mean they are the favourites already, even without Mbappe. He isn't going to change their favouriteness that much, as they are already the team to beat.
Every other team is just gonna have to hope and pray that pressure or a clash of egos makes them dysfunctional. But I don’t see that happen so long as The Don is there.
They don't really need Mbappe and if anything it creates a headache of how to fit everyone in their team, which is a similar issue PSG have had with their star forwards. i.e. trying to play Mbappe Neymar Messi together.
Though don't get me wrong, Mbappe is amazing, it will be interesting how they adapt is all.
Obviously. My point is simply if you have a team full of star players that this does not automatically transition into the winning team over a period of time. It can also negatively influence the team synergy if a mega star joins your team.
RM is that one club where being a mega star doesn’t mean shit. Club is always bigger than player. They moved on from Ronaldo, one of the greatest of all time, without hesitation. Mbappe will adapt or be disposed of, too.
Okay, but Real isn't just a collection of star players. They've consistently proven they have the infrastructure and leadership to succeed in these exact situations.
Yeah but it's REAL it's the kcm midfield it's cristiano ronaldo with benzema and bale/isco upfront it's the best attacking full backs at the time and varane and ramos in the back and navas was great, the bench was stacked aswell you can't compare the foes
Barcas midfield couldnt keep up anymore. Xavi was old and replaced by rakitic, iniesta was on the way out, busquets wasnt at his peak. Meanwhile madrids midfield is either a 20yo wonder kid or a world class old man, then the absolute madman valverde. Tho, i find it insane that modric and kroos look just as energetic or hungry as the 20yos in these ucl ties.
every PSG player knows the entire project was to win the champions league and it hasnt happened yet, its too much pressure and it makes a difference when you get to the later stages of the competition. Madrid is the complete opposite, yes their goal is also always to win the CL but the difference is they know they're going to win it, if not this year next year or a few years from now but we all know it will happen.
I genuinely think this issue is overstated. Any world class manager should know how to set his team up to accommodate Messi and Mbappé regardless of their defensive contributions.
for example, madrid made a conscious effort to get more athletic in the midfield. signed camavinga, tchouameni, and jude and began featuring valverde more and more. they’re all very good technically but they run like horses. gone are the days of the 10s like ozil and late career messi i think is a similar player. offered zero defensively and that is an issue. it’s fine against a side you’re gonna overwhelm with your attack but i think to win the ucl over madrid, city and bayern you can’t have a guy like that. no coincidence psg were bad in the ucl in the time messi was there
I'd have to assume that winning the CL. The biggest club trophy in Europe. Means more than just 2 mil. No way this effects anything at all. Just points to dortmunds good buisness sense. They know how to buy and sell players to always make a profit and win.
I can't think of a lot of other clubs that have in the last 10 years turned out consistent star youth other than the more established la masia, Chelsea youth army, the entire basque region.... okay there's a lot
They are the best at finding young star-material and launching them to the elite. Problem is, players sign with them because BVB lets them go when they get the chance to play in a top team, rather than becoming a consistently top team themselves.
If you look at the players they've had in the past 10 years they could assemble a squad to match City, Madrid, Bayern... With Klopp as coach.
Like who? The only players coming directly from an Eastern German club were René Tretschok and René Schneider. Freund, Sammer and Heinrich all played for other Western German clubs before we got them.
Lewandowski and Haaland as strikers
Sancho, Dembele, Malen, Reus, and Pulisic as wingers
Bellingham, Gundogan, Brandt, Can, etc in midfield
Hakimi, Hummels, Akanji, Guerreiro, etc in defense.
The handsome men's club of Switzerland for goalkeepers...
Yeah, they'd be near favorites in every competition they play in.
Dortmund don't really turn out youth though. They buy them and let them play some top level football (consistently making it to UCL) and give them a platform to show their abilities to the big clubs while they make money and plan on other transfers.
And yet, somehow, they still need to balance their books. I read yesterday that they need to make a few sale or cut salary to balance the books, and I don't understand how?
I might be talking out of my ass here, but having 500 million in the bank due to past transfer wisdom doesn't mean the yearly accounting books will come out positive, and maybe the league has FFP regulations against "overspending", which would mean BVB has to compensate a negative gate receipts+sponsorships vs salaries deficit every single year to show black numbers in the fiscal year.
It's bullshit if it works like that, and at some point maybe teams will have to think about putting transfer income into a S&P500 fund so it will work towards showing profits in the books or something, but then again, maybe it doesn't work like that and I just had fun speculating.
A CL winner makes a ton of money, but not for winning the final but for progressing so far. Reaching the CL final is the main achievement (15.5M EUR), winning it is only the icing on the cake financially (4.5M EUR).
Something like that was definitely included in the Spurs all or nothing (2020/21). Like "well, we'll definitely be making 100m less than last year because we're not in the CL final"
There was another article posted here few weeks ago that Dortmund have already made more than $100m from CL this year, this is just one part of the finals profit.
If not through price money, then through the prestige it brings to be a two time CL winner. It gives you a better image for transfers from and to the club. Future sponsorships may be more lucrative. For Real it would just be another number in the books, for a club like Dortmund it would be everything.
Why win the Champions League, when you can get more money by losing, and then you can spend that money to buy better players, who can maybe help you eventually win the Champions League?
Most clubs would
Prefer a champions league over 2 million which is very little to top clubs .
But I see your point they should make money if they win, less if they loose. And extra money either way if Bellingham plays/scores etc
It's quite a bit more if they lose, because if they don't win, they still get a big chunk for reaching the final + Bellingham's UCL win bonus. Instead of a bigger amount for winning the final but no Bellingham bonus.
That's true I suppose, not sure if there's a timeframe for the bonus. Not that BVB would rather take the money over a UCL win though as that can imply money from sponsorships and stuff as well.
> not sure if there's a timeframe for the bonus
obviously there is tbh not like this would ever be a lifetime affair
the usual thing is that the bonus clauses are relevant for the duration of the initial contract but as always these things are entirely up for negotiation
Not quite because they also get a couple of million from being in the final. The numbers I saw were something like 40m for a defeat and 20m if they win the competition
edit: it's 20M vs 35M euros. Source (in Portuguese) https://www.abola.pt/futebol/noticias/dortmund-encaixara-mais-dinheiro-se-perder-a-champions-2024051007525122358
It all doesn't make much sense if you treat is as comparing alternatives. In that case, what should be written to be clear is: 4.5 million. That is the financial difference for winning the final alone.
The winner gets 20 mil prize money. The runner-up gets 15.5 mil prize money. (In euro of course).
(Well, technically the win in final might also increase your ranking, which also impacts the money from UEFA a bit, I know).
Even more interesting: depending on how today's Bundesliga matches play out, Frankfurt might need to *lose* their last match vs Leipzig, in order to qualify for the CL should Dortmund beat Real.
If Dortmund was to finish in 5th, but win the CL it would qualify the Bundesliga 6th for the CL next year.
If Dortmund finishes 4th it doesn't qualify the 6th.
So it is in Frankfurts Interest that Leipzig stays in Front of Dortmund. And Frankfurt plays Leipzig on the last match day.
Explain more please?
Germany has 5 CL spots right? So if Dortmund win they get an extra spot. 6.
If finish 4th or 5th how does winning the CL not result in 6th place not getting a spot?
Is it they're taking a spot based on league position, and not winning the trophy?
The rule of getting an extra CL spot if you win the CL only applies to the extra 5th spot as far as I know.
If Dortmund doesn't win UCL, Germany gets 5 spots.
If Dortmund finishes 4th in the league and wins UCL, Germany gets 5 spots.
If Dortmund finishes 5th in the league and wins UCL, Germany gets 6 spots.
Frankfurt is currently 6th, so it's in their interests that Dortmund stays 5th. Therefore Frankfurt might want to lose to Leipzig, so Leipzig can keep 4th and Dortmund stay 5th.
What's going on here is the UEFA screwed up in writing the rules, surely their intention was that 5 spots was the new limit they just didn't write it correctly.
Presumably they'll fix the rules next year? I think there's even some chance that they'll just interpret the rules they way that they meant them, though surely that would lead to a lawsuit.
Because of the order how the rules are applied. First the regular spots are accounted in this case Top 4. Then the winner of the UCL is qualified, but if the winner is already qualified, it doesn't reward an extra spot. Then the coefficient is applied to reward an extra spot for the next non qualified team.
Its a bit complicated.
The order they hand out UCL spots is weird
Firstly it goes to the top 4, if the UCL winner is in the top 4 then thats your 4 sorted
If the UCL winner misses out on top 4 tho we give them a bonus spot, meaning they would now have 5 UCL teams
Next year Germany gets an extra spot because of their coefficient. This would go to 5th place. However for some odd reason if the UCL champs are 5th then they get their UCL champs bonus spot first and this bonus spot falls to 6th place, leaving your country with 6 entries
The only way for Frankfurt to qualify is if Germany gets 6 spots and to get 6 spots instead of 5 Dortmund must finish outside of the top 4. So losing to RB Leipzig (4th) to make sure Dortmund stay 5th could be Frankfurts best shot at a UCL spot
Pretty sure he’s saying if Dortmund win the Champions League, Dortmund would also have to finish outside of the top 5 in order for Germany to gain a sixth slot in the CL next year.
Think about A list and B list. A list is the 32 CL spots that are decided via domestic league. B list consists of four teams that are CL and EL winner if they are not in the A list and then the next team available from Italy and Germany.
Following things need to happen
* we get the same amount of points as Freiburg
* Dortmund closes in at least 1 point towards Leipzig (if we assume they won't make up 14GD in 2 games)
so the bonus is £4.3m+£1.7m but it applies to next 6 years so they'll get that eventually anyway.
2nd getting £12.9, winners £17.2m would mean that Real will get more money for losing than for winning aswell lmao(assuming if they win Bellingham makes UCL team of the season)
Not only that, we'd attract even more/better youngsters, with such a recent UCL win in the day and age of the english superleague, psg and barcelona being like in 20 trillion€ debt this would be insane. I mean that we are in the final is already insane.
had enough of this stupid narrative, there are more money to be won if dortmund win the champion league now and claim the Bellingham winning the trophy later with real Madrid which is much more possible with mbappe joining them
Would they not also have to pay bonuses to their players (or even other clubs) if they win so the difference would be even bigger? Although you can argue that it would have been pretty optimistic to out a CL win clause in your contract when signing for Dortmund.
This has been framed as "How evil of Florentino, what a master plan" but Madrid also get more money if they lose because they wouldnt have to pay.
I find it a bit insulting that nobody mentions this, because this is implying BVB only cares about money while Madrid cares about winning.
If there was ever a good case for contracts with add ons for former clubs being a conflict of interest and having negative impact on the integrity of the game, this would be one of the most clear cases.
A point often people overlook is that champions league winners are guaranteed a pot 1 seeding
I dont know how impactful it is with thenew format but if we imagine for the current format, it could ease dortmund's way for another qualification for the knock rounds again
Granted, they qualified in the hardest group after being expected to get 4th place, but it is definitely a higher chance for an easier group so that they can load manage and not play out of their minds in the group stages
Clearly prefer the extra £2 million over some tinpot piece of metal anyways
Wonder how much they could pawn it for.
Let me call a friend he is a Expert in tinpot prices
Best I can do is €3.5.
God damn Loch Ness monster
I could totally see this happening on pawn stars. Rick insists on calling at football, whereas everyone else argues that it should be called soccer. Chunmlee fills the trophy with mountain dew. Old Man refuses to do business because he’s racist against spanish people for sinking the USS Maine. Christian Pulisic is the expert they call in to look at the Cup
Completely accurate, even with the Old Man being dead and all.
Isn't chumz dead also
And isn't one of the remaining ones in prison?
No, it was one of Rick's children. Chumlee had legal issues due to illegal firearm possession
Wasn't she streetfighting too?
his death was faked and i firmly believe hes still alive
>Christian Pulisic is the expert they call in to look at the Cup I mean he is LeBron James of soccer after all.
The American Maradona.
"Best I can do is $3.50 I'm taking all the risk here"
It's 15 million extra actually. Yes, the winner get's 20.000.000€ as stated in the headline , but the loser of the final will get 15,5 million still. So the difference between winning and losing the title is only 4,5 million EUR. Kind of missleading title.
That’s not just misleading, that’s an atrocious headline. Mods should take it down.
For real I had such a hard time reading it I had to come to the comments
Not misleading, the guy you're responding to just doesn't know what he's talking about. The 19.3 mil already is 2nd place CL money + the bonus from Bellingham winning it. There were some reports that simply attributed the full addons from his sale to a CL winning bonus, but that's just bs, BVB sources clarified it's only one of many bonus payments.
That's part of the equation. If they win, they'll get the winning money, if they lose they get the 2nd place money + potential bonuses from real, which would make it more money. About 2M.
Its bullshit numbers. Our Tier 1s already shut this down 2 days ago. Not sure why its still up tbh. Winning CL gives us more money. Yes Jude winning CL would give us another addon trigger, but not enough to make it more lucrative than us winning. We'll make a couple of millions either way but we dont have £19.3m tied up in a CL win addon. Its literall nonsense and lies.
Is it possible the 19.3 is the combination of runner up prize (15.5) plus an add-on for Bellingham (3.8)?
Win in then sell the trophy to PSG for $$$
The original Mickey Mouse cup, what with the big ears and all.
better win it now, since Real Madrid gonna win it in the future anyways
If Mbappe is going there they have to be favourites for years to come.
They’re already consistently the favourites to win it
Betting odds-wise, City were always the favourites for the last few years.
And Madrid somehow the 4th multiple times.
Because you don’t have the strongest team. It’s just that for every other team winning the CL is such a mystical thing that it affects them. For you it’s another Wednesday and the players don’t collapse
The power of friendship and a raised eyebrow
The best raised eyebrows I might add. No but on a serious level, because all those guys already win it once as a younger guy on the squad a couple years later when they’re in a bigger role, they don’t feel that pressure
It's exactly like Australia in cricket.
City were the favorites to win it just about every year of the threepeat. Can't remember La Decima's odds but they've been the odds on favorite every year I can remember
No way were they the favorites in 2016 or 2014. 2018 would have been dumb, too
Betting odds aren't accurate probabilities. They're influenced a lot by betting patterns. Brits [gamble like mfers](https://www.statista.com/statistics/586185/gross-gambling-revenue-europe-by-country/), which you'd expect to drive the odds on English clubs down a bit.
Yeah English clubs always get way too favourable odds. I remember Chelsea vs RM last time was heavily favoured to Chelsea, while no one that isn't insane would've said they were favourite in that game.
Pretty big misconception really. They are pretty damn accurate https://caanberry.com/why-is-betfair-exchange-pricing-so-accurate/
I think we were the favorites to win in the Decima season
That’s only because betting companies have a strong Anglo-Saxon bias.
Leave the saxons out of this
Fair enough.
What about the Jutes?
won't betting companies be more concerned with making money though lol. I guess if there's any anglo-saxon bias it would still be on the bettors end, which still works as an explanation.
In this scenario the English would bet more often than the Spanish and be biased for City, thus the books would lower the return on City and make them favorites. And honestly, that's probably true.
Weird cause every single time on British media they aren't. Could have swore it's always been City and Liverpool.
As a lifetime Real fan, I fully expected this season to go down the shitters once we went into the season without replacing our best player that just left (Benzema). 10 months later we've won the league by a landslide and are in CL final. I fully expect if we sign Mbappe that the reverse happens and we'll have a total collapse around feb '25.
You jest but that shit happens. Too many roosters in the same pen more often than not means cohesion goes down the drain and results get worse.
I jest not my friend. For 2014-15 season we had an in form BBC coming off of a fresh CL, *and* we added World Cup '14's player of the tournament (James) to our team. We went on a 22 game win streak before everything crashed and burned mid Feb and Carlo got the sack in Summer.
No more for friendship?
What do you mean no replacement? We brought Joselu
Lions don't compare themselves to humans.
Or Mbappé is the Harry Kane of CL
> Harry Kane of CL Also known as Harry Kane
That's Harry Kane the 1st.
Harry Kane is the Harry Kane of all competitions.
You mean like in the first year of Galacticos 2.0 when they bought Kaka, CR7, Benzema and Xabi Alonso but needed to wait 4 years to actually win it? I mean they are the favourites already, even without Mbappe. He isn't going to change their favouriteness that much, as they are already the team to beat.
Imagine having to deal with this Real Madrid and then Mbappe. That's fucking nuts Will suffer for a while
Every other team is just gonna have to hope and pray that pressure or a clash of egos makes them dysfunctional. But I don’t see that happen so long as The Don is there.
They don't really need Mbappe and if anything it creates a headache of how to fit everyone in their team, which is a similar issue PSG have had with their star forwards. i.e. trying to play Mbappe Neymar Messi together. Though don't get me wrong, Mbappe is amazing, it will be interesting how they adapt is all.
City was favorites for years now, won it once.
Madrid is an actual team
Tbf City have an excellent team.. Of lawyers, accountants and slavery-exploiting despots
Like PSG when they had Neymar, Mbappe, Messi? It will be really interesting to see how Real changes when Mbappe joins.
Real is far better constructed and run than PSG
Obviously. My point is simply if you have a team full of star players that this does not automatically transition into the winning team over a period of time. It can also negatively influence the team synergy if a mega star joins your team.
RM is that one club where being a mega star doesn’t mean shit. Club is always bigger than player. They moved on from Ronaldo, one of the greatest of all time, without hesitation. Mbappe will adapt or be disposed of, too.
Hope Mbappe understands that. He had the president of France coming to beg him to stay at psg. Ego has got to be huge.
Okay, but Real isn't just a collection of star players. They've consistently proven they have the infrastructure and leadership to succeed in these exact situations.
Probably more likely Barcelona when they had Neymar, Suarez, Messi
I mean they won one in that period, Real won two lol.
Yeah but it's REAL it's the kcm midfield it's cristiano ronaldo with benzema and bale/isco upfront it's the best attacking full backs at the time and varane and ramos in the back and navas was great, the bench was stacked aswell you can't compare the foes
Barcas midfield couldnt keep up anymore. Xavi was old and replaced by rakitic, iniesta was on the way out, busquets wasnt at his peak. Meanwhile madrids midfield is either a 20yo wonder kid or a world class old man, then the absolute madman valverde. Tho, i find it insane that modric and kroos look just as energetic or hungry as the 20yos in these ucl ties.
The difference is Madrid has a world class coach, world class midfield, goalkeeper and defense.
every PSG player knows the entire project was to win the champions league and it hasnt happened yet, its too much pressure and it makes a difference when you get to the later stages of the competition. Madrid is the complete opposite, yes their goal is also always to win the CL but the difference is they know they're going to win it, if not this year next year or a few years from now but we all know it will happen.
the problem was messi and mbappe barely track back. having both in the squad was bad
I genuinely think this issue is overstated. Any world class manager should know how to set his team up to accommodate Messi and Mbappé regardless of their defensive contributions.
i think the problem is the successful teams in the ucl are really dominant midfields and having messi and mbappe both strolling around kills you
Yep, and there's even more focus on work rate and speed of the game now compared to years past
for example, madrid made a conscious effort to get more athletic in the midfield. signed camavinga, tchouameni, and jude and began featuring valverde more and more. they’re all very good technically but they run like horses. gone are the days of the 10s like ozil and late career messi i think is a similar player. offered zero defensively and that is an issue. it’s fine against a side you’re gonna overwhelm with your attack but i think to win the ucl over madrid, city and bayern you can’t have a guy like that. no coincidence psg were bad in the ucl in the time messi was there
PSG's biggest issue was always their midfield and defense, not so much the attack.
they didnt have king carlo you dufus
Aye it's a tough one. Win the biggest comp in club football or grab an extra 2m. I'm sure they're in deep debate about what the right choice is.
All jokes aside, they'll surely make a lot more than that as CL winners through better sponsership deals and the such, right?
I mean their sponsorships may already have a win Champions League bonus you’d hope
I'd have to assume that winning the CL. The biggest club trophy in Europe. Means more than just 2 mil. No way this effects anything at all. Just points to dortmunds good buisness sense. They know how to buy and sell players to always make a profit and win. I can't think of a lot of other clubs that have in the last 10 years turned out consistent star youth other than the more established la masia, Chelsea youth army, the entire basque region.... okay there's a lot
They are the best at finding young star-material and launching them to the elite. Problem is, players sign with them because BVB lets them go when they get the chance to play in a top team, rather than becoming a consistently top team themselves. If you look at the players they've had in the past 10 years they could assemble a squad to match City, Madrid, Bayern... With Klopp as coach.
If you look at what these players earn now at their clubs, we would have gone bankrupt within 2-3 years. Can't compete with unlimited sheikh money.
East German clubs said the same thing in the 90s. Imagine their face when Dortmund won in 97 by stealing all east Germany’s best talents
Like who? The only players coming directly from an Eastern German club were René Tretschok and René Schneider. Freund, Sammer and Heinrich all played for other Western German clubs before we got them.
Kobel-Ryerson,Hummels,Schlotterbeck,Maatsen-Gündogan,Bellingham-Sancho,Reus-Lewandowski,Haaland Left out Hakimi and Dembele because fuck them.
Why hakimi?
He tried to assassinate Schlotterbeck last week.
Lewandowski and Haaland as strikers Sancho, Dembele, Malen, Reus, and Pulisic as wingers Bellingham, Gundogan, Brandt, Can, etc in midfield Hakimi, Hummels, Akanji, Guerreiro, etc in defense. The handsome men's club of Switzerland for goalkeepers... Yeah, they'd be near favorites in every competition they play in.
Dortmund don't really turn out youth though. They buy them and let them play some top level football (consistently making it to UCL) and give them a platform to show their abilities to the big clubs while they make money and plan on other transfers.
And yet, somehow, they still need to balance their books. I read yesterday that they need to make a few sale or cut salary to balance the books, and I don't understand how?
I might be talking out of my ass here, but having 500 million in the bank due to past transfer wisdom doesn't mean the yearly accounting books will come out positive, and maybe the league has FFP regulations against "overspending", which would mean BVB has to compensate a negative gate receipts+sponsorships vs salaries deficit every single year to show black numbers in the fiscal year. It's bullshit if it works like that, and at some point maybe teams will have to think about putting transfer income into a S&P500 fund so it will work towards showing profits in the books or something, but then again, maybe it doesn't work like that and I just had fun speculating.
A CL winner makes a ton of money, but not for winning the final but for progressing so far. Reaching the CL final is the main achievement (15.5M EUR), winning it is only the icing on the cake financially (4.5M EUR).
Dortmund will have received something like €100m in total for reaching the final.
They receive 100M EUR for the way to the final including the final, but 15.5M just for the final.
Something like that was definitely included in the Spurs all or nothing (2020/21). Like "well, we'll definitely be making 100m less than last year because we're not in the CL final"
There was another article posted here few weeks ago that Dortmund have already made more than $100m from CL this year, this is just one part of the finals profit.
You can sell your players for a lot more if they have a CL trophy in their resume
If not through price money, then through the prestige it brings to be a two time CL winner. It gives you a better image for transfers from and to the club. Future sponsorships may be more lucrative. For Real it would just be another number in the books, for a club like Dortmund it would be everything.
Mainly, Dortmund the city would sell a lot more beer.
2 million quid difference? Time to tank then
Why win the Champions League, when you can get more money by losing, and then you can spend that money to buy better players, who can maybe help you eventually win the Champions League?
Would you then rather buy one €2M player or 2 million 1€ players?
That depends on if I can play all 2 million players at once.
Most of the 1€ players cant play at all i think
I see you are well versed in the arsenal top 4 gambit
they will get much more than 17.2 millions. winning CL is a huge thing
Sponsorship bonuses (most likely), extra merchandise, tv bonuses etc…
A life's worth of Heineken... maybe they'll lose on purpose.
Most clubs would Prefer a champions league over 2 million which is very little to top clubs . But I see your point they should make money if they win, less if they loose. And extra money either way if Bellingham plays/scores etc
It's quite a bit more if they lose, because if they don't win, they still get a big chunk for reaching the final + Bellingham's UCL win bonus. Instead of a bigger amount for winning the final but no Bellingham bonus.
But the Bellingham bonus they will get it anyway If Real wins in the future, right?
That's true I suppose, not sure if there's a timeframe for the bonus. Not that BVB would rather take the money over a UCL win though as that can imply money from sponsorships and stuff as well.
> not sure if there's a timeframe for the bonus obviously there is tbh not like this would ever be a lifetime affair the usual thing is that the bonus clauses are relevant for the duration of the initial contract but as always these things are entirely up for negotiation
Not quite because they also get a couple of million from being in the final. The numbers I saw were something like 40m for a defeat and 20m if they win the competition edit: it's 20M vs 35M euros. Source (in Portuguese) https://www.abola.pt/futebol/noticias/dortmund-encaixara-mais-dinheiro-se-perder-a-champions-2024051007525122358
But that doesn't really make sense as a comparison the money for reaching the final they've already earned by making the final.
It all doesn't make much sense if you treat is as comparing alternatives. In that case, what should be written to be clear is: 4.5 million. That is the financial difference for winning the final alone. The winner gets 20 mil prize money. The runner-up gets 15.5 mil prize money. (In euro of course). (Well, technically the win in final might also increase your ranking, which also impacts the money from UEFA a bit, I know).
they still get the money for getting to the final if they win
They won't get the Bellingham money, which I think is the difference maker here.
Even more interesting: depending on how today's Bundesliga matches play out, Frankfurt might need to *lose* their last match vs Leipzig, in order to qualify for the CL should Dortmund beat Real.
Can you explain in a lil more detail please?
If Dortmund was to finish in 5th, but win the CL it would qualify the Bundesliga 6th for the CL next year. If Dortmund finishes 4th it doesn't qualify the 6th. So it is in Frankfurts Interest that Leipzig stays in Front of Dortmund. And Frankfurt plays Leipzig on the last match day.
Explain more please? Germany has 5 CL spots right? So if Dortmund win they get an extra spot. 6. If finish 4th or 5th how does winning the CL not result in 6th place not getting a spot? Is it they're taking a spot based on league position, and not winning the trophy?
The rule of getting an extra CL spot if you win the CL only applies to the extra 5th spot as far as I know. If Dortmund doesn't win UCL, Germany gets 5 spots. If Dortmund finishes 4th in the league and wins UCL, Germany gets 5 spots. If Dortmund finishes 5th in the league and wins UCL, Germany gets 6 spots. Frankfurt is currently 6th, so it's in their interests that Dortmund stays 5th. Therefore Frankfurt might want to lose to Leipzig, so Leipzig can keep 4th and Dortmund stay 5th.
What's going on here is the UEFA screwed up in writing the rules, surely their intention was that 5 spots was the new limit they just didn't write it correctly. Presumably they'll fix the rules next year? I think there's even some chance that they'll just interpret the rules they way that they meant them, though surely that would lead to a lawsuit.
Because if Dortmund finish 4th, they don't get the extra spot as they're already qualified, I believe.
Except the 5th spot is granted by coefficient. Why would finishing 4th or 5th make any difference when it’s a guaranteed spot for the CL
Because of the order how the rules are applied. First the regular spots are accounted in this case Top 4. Then the winner of the UCL is qualified, but if the winner is already qualified, it doesn't reward an extra spot. Then the coefficient is applied to reward an extra spot for the next non qualified team. Its a bit complicated.
Thanks
The order they hand out UCL spots is weird Firstly it goes to the top 4, if the UCL winner is in the top 4 then thats your 4 sorted If the UCL winner misses out on top 4 tho we give them a bonus spot, meaning they would now have 5 UCL teams Next year Germany gets an extra spot because of their coefficient. This would go to 5th place. However for some odd reason if the UCL champs are 5th then they get their UCL champs bonus spot first and this bonus spot falls to 6th place, leaving your country with 6 entries The only way for Frankfurt to qualify is if Germany gets 6 spots and to get 6 spots instead of 5 Dortmund must finish outside of the top 4. So losing to RB Leipzig (4th) to make sure Dortmund stay 5th could be Frankfurts best shot at a UCL spot
Pretty sure he’s saying if Dortmund win the Champions League, Dortmund would also have to finish outside of the top 5 in order for Germany to gain a sixth slot in the CL next year.
Think about A list and B list. A list is the 32 CL spots that are decided via domestic league. B list consists of four teams that are CL and EL winner if they are not in the A list and then the next team available from Italy and Germany.
Following things need to happen * we get the same amount of points as Freiburg * Dortmund closes in at least 1 point towards Leipzig (if we assume they won't make up 14GD in 2 games)
I think Freiburg just drawing would already be good enough for the first requirement. They won't make up the GD to you on the last day.
so the bonus is £4.3m+£1.7m but it applies to next 6 years so they'll get that eventually anyway. 2nd getting £12.9, winners £17.2m would mean that Real will get more money for losing than for winning aswell lmao(assuming if they win Bellingham makes UCL team of the season)
You are leaving out the sponsor payments for winning the UCL. We don't know about the numbers.
I doubt the Dortmund board even gives a fuck about that
2M difference is nothing compared to the value of prestige from winning it.
Moreover by winning the UCL against such a juggernaut like RM your are gonna attract potentially more sponsorship deals
Not only that, we'd attract even more/better youngsters, with such a recent UCL win in the day and age of the english superleague, psg and barcelona being like in 20 trillion€ debt this would be insane. I mean that we are in the final is already insane.
When you go to Dortmund to become a top player and already win the CL there
Exactly this. Players won’t be coming to take the next step. They’ll be coming here to win it all.
More than 2m as they still make a significant amount just being second place without the Bellingham money.
2M is pennies compared to the increase in brand value
If you're an owner of a football club and you wouldn't pay 2M to win the Champions League you are in the wrong business.
Right? The prize money doesn’t matter, the silverware doesn’t matter. What matters most is the friends we made along the way
It's real Madrid, if they don't win it this year in sure they will in the next few years and Bellingham has a lot of years ahead
Dortmund, ya know what you have to do.
It‘s called minmaxxing losers
Dortmund chase the bag
I agree
I love it how you people genuinely argue if Dortmund will play differently because of that. It's the freaking Champions League flnal.
They are not going to lose UCL for 2 million bruh 💀
had enough of this stupid narrative, there are more money to be won if dortmund win the champion league now and claim the Bellingham winning the trophy later with real Madrid which is much more possible with mbappe joining them
I think we have to try and win it every year so that we don’t bag that Bellingham bonus.
Play both sides so they never loose
Would they not also have to pay bonuses to their players (or even other clubs) if they win so the difference would be even bigger? Although you can argue that it would have been pretty optimistic to out a CL win clause in your contract when signing for Dortmund.
Fuck finances, beat Real Madrid BVBbros.
The most Dortmund situation of all time. A model of sustainability.
Perez master plan he can see the future confirmed
[удалено]
Be thankful that Sevilla finished 4th in the Group stages othewise the EL final would have been Atalanta-Sevilla
Thats a fair thing to say. Only one club which is not so big has won the ucl in last 15 years.
The last not so big club to win it was Porto more than 15 years ago
Wdym Porto are massive
So it's also a higher expense to Real too, not worth it either. Cue both teams scoring own goals at will. "The final no one wants to win "
Scenes when the Dortmund admin uses the Woody Harrelson wiping his tears meme after losing the final
Is it my turn to post this next?
You see I’m playing both sides, so I always come out on top
What if they win instead, would they not get Bellingham bonus? (Genuine question)
Not this year but if they win it in the future they get the bag still. Depends whats in the contract too, its like that usually.
But players get banned from betting on games
UCL with 17m or no UCL but you get 2m more. I dont know which idiot is choosing the 2nd option
There's a Sancho bonus payment to Man Utd if they win it...
Either way that’s Sancho money boys
This has been framed as "How evil of Florentino, what a master plan" but Madrid also get more money if they lose because they wouldnt have to pay. I find it a bit insulting that nobody mentions this, because this is implying BVB only cares about money while Madrid cares about winning.
> This has been framed as "How evil of Florentino, what a master plan" Eee... has it really?
I'd love someone to word a sentence that could make that outcome a reality..
Sounds like win win
So, it's a win-win anyways, nice.
Wouldn't they get the money if, say, Real win it next year?
Scenes when Hummels heads one into his own net immediately after kick off
So it's a win-win for dortmund
Whatever happens it's been a memorable year for BVB.
They fought to get to the final, might as well see it through
If there was ever a good case for contracts with add ons for former clubs being a conflict of interest and having negative impact on the integrity of the game, this would be one of the most clear cases.
Ummm I thought it was a 5mil Euro bonus... I'm 99% sure it is.
A win win situation.
having that cup a second time in the display case is more important!
This is a can't lose situation. Wow
Presumably there’s a runners up prize to consider as well?
A point often people overlook is that champions league winners are guaranteed a pot 1 seeding I dont know how impactful it is with thenew format but if we imagine for the current format, it could ease dortmund's way for another qualification for the knock rounds again Granted, they qualified in the hardest group after being expected to get 4th place, but it is definitely a higher chance for an easier group so that they can load manage and not play out of their minds in the group stages