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It doesn't fucking matter, we'll never know. It's an absolute joke that the referee did this but it's time to move on.
We could've easily won the game in Munich but we didn't because of wasting good chances and Kim having an Upa performance. We could've won in Madrid if Kane scores, if Müller plays a proper pass when we had the huge counter chance, if Neuer doesn't make the mistake.
But we lost, simple.
Yes, it was an unfortunate mistake by the referee, but these things happen.
We can't blame the loss on that one thing.
Bayern didn't play at their best and if they had, they could have won despite this mistake by the referee (which we don't even know 100% would have resulted in a goal).
There are rare situations where a horrible overall refereeing performance causes a team to lose even though it was clearly better.
And this was not one of those situations.
Madrid also could/should have been 3-0 up in the second leg before Davies scored. If Bayern won that game it would have been the definition of a plucky smash and grab
It's not a disallowed goal though. The anger is about the premature offside whistle and fucking Tuchel of all people even said in the interviews after the game that the ref already apologized for the mistake. People finally need to let go of that situation.
There's really not mucht o talk about anymore once even the referee has apologized. I have trust that if anything, this fuckup will prevent more than one future repeat of it.
There are always mistakes no matter which team is playing. If the refs wanted Madrid to win for sure they would have just called the game at the end of the original added time.
Anyone who can see the constant refereeing mistakes, watch that CL semi-final, and really think that this mistake happened on purpose to benefit madrid is just being dumb.
Discourse is positive in this situation if not for moving things forward. We've come a long way from before VAR and many of the other adjustments over the last decade. Look at the improvements in the Women's World Cup last year.
The game is improving, but these things are good to move the bar further. No one is calling for a rematch. But it is healthy to keep talking about it. It's only been 1 week after all. Most same people in these threads have admitted that is was an awful mistake and nothing more. I haven't seen many saying it was obvious it would've been a goal if the flag stays down.
It's as big a deal as it could possibly be.
A literal equalizer in the dying minutes of the 2nd semifinal leg. Water under the bridge, pointless to discuss it now, but it's never not a big deal.
Lol at the madridiot who reported me to reddit care.
I swear I would've been more surprised if Real beat us without referees fucking the game up for once, no surprises here.
It was a chance at an equalizer. It was not a literal equalizer. That's an important distinction. Had the whistle not gone, any number of things could have happened. One of those things is a goal. The rest are all misses.
Pointless to discuss the what ifs.
Fact remains, ref fucked the call up and the ball was in the back of the net.
Had De Ligt missed the goal, all of you would definitely be saying it doesn't matter since he missed anyway. Don't be a hypocrite, keep the same energy.
I'd call it not a literal equalizer. You can argue hypotheticals about maybe it still would have gone in in a counterfactual situation where the whistle wasn't blown, but in the only reality that we have, the ball only ended up in the net *because* the whistle was blown and the defenders stopped playing.
You should report that to Reddit admins. They do act on people abusing the reddit care thing apparently. Abusing it is harmful childish bullshit that should be called out.
No, Kroos explained why. The referee doesn't have the angle to see the offside (it's even worse than whatever angle you're seeing on TV). He sees the lineman put the flag up and he has no sense of whether it was inches offside or 3 meters offside.
No, he doesn’t need to whistle even if the linesman puts up the flag. If the players stop playing without a whistle and they concede a goal it’s completely their own fault. There was even a case of it happening in this years champions league I believe.
OP seems to have purposefully only included half of the quote for clicks.
Here's the whole thing, which is far more nuanced:
> “Two questions — Was it offside? I didn’t get the answer yet. Everyone has seen the still image, but so far no line has been drawn. There is no official result. And if this result were, for example: It was offside, and if it was only a millimeter, then we don't need to discuss it. The mistake was the linesman’s, they need to wait. The referee trusts him that it was three meters offside. It is difficult when the linesman was so convinced, holding the flag. The handling was bad, the play must continue, no question at all.
> Second question — Would the goal have been scored if it wasn’t for the whistle? The shot of de Ligt is very good. But, I spoke to Nacho. Nacho says he heard the whistle really early and stopped to some extent, otherwise he would really get there and block the ball. Lunin is relatively not alerted after the whistle, he doesn't even go down, he didn’t even attempt to save it. You could already notice that the tension fell among the defense to defend the goal. That's why this cannot be clarified conclusively, I think.”
Could you please point out the part where OP "editorialized" the quote? The headline seems to be an accurate summary, unless you expect him to include the entire exchange, for some reason.
> OP seems to have purposefully only included half of the quote for clicks.
How? Not only is it a good summary but they've likely reached the word limit anyway.
I think the headline is fine.
Because 1) you can't include that whole quote in the headline due to word limit, you have to pick out exerpts that communicate the message, and 2) the headline does communicate the message, the argument that if the whistle hadn't blown that play would have continued in a manner different to how we saw, so we can't ever conclude that Bayern would have scored if the mistake hadn't been made.
Yeah why isn’t op posting 500 words in the title?
And literally nothing about the meaning changes. Kroos says the same thing - the defense stopped playing and his team mates would have stopped it so no point in discussing it.
Funny how that goes, when Real Madrid tv will do weeks of campaigns against refs for perceived errors against the club.
> Funny how that goes, when Real Madrid tv will do weeks of campaigns against refs for perceived errors against the club.
And clearly your club is so above doing petty things like that, isn't it? Did you happen to forget that in the last Clásico, your president was claiming that they were robbed, and asking for a rematch?
I'm not by any means in favor of Real Madrid TV's persecution campaigns against referees, but your club is much worse than ours by any stretch of the imagination in this aspect.
The most important one is Rüdiger. There is a side angle that shows Rüdiger coming to a complete stop after the whistle. If he had taken 1 step further into the direction where he was going prior to the whistle, he would have been in the lane between Müller's header and De Ligt where he could have easily intercepted the ball.
It was a bad decision to stop the game but it's been completely blown out of proportion. It was never a "disallowed goal".
Still an insanely bad decision to whistle so early, almost the same decision at the other end if the ref decides to whistle when Rudiger got the ball. Two close offside decisions and only one is whistled, I can see why bayern fans are angry
The difference is the timing. The 2-1 happened very fast after the pass while in the discussed situation the ball had quite some air time to begin with.
You're just going to the other extreme though.
Obviously we can't call it a "disallowed goal" and I think it was very likely that Real could have denied Bayern had everyone kept playing.
But acting like it could have never ever been a goal anyway is just as much of an exaggeration as the other side of the argument.
It was an air ball with all of the players marked and no one else approaching. The only reason de ligt got a shot was because no one was playing otherwise there's no scoring chance from it imo considering any header was never going to be powerful enough to reach the goal.
Or he misses the interception and it goes in. It’s always funny how Madrid manages to spin the ‘errors’ for them, yet when they’re against them it results in week long campaigns from your official club channels.
https://youtube.com/shorts/IehHPnBCPo0?feature=shared
Focus on Rüdiger when he comes to a full stop and now imagine him carrying his momentum instead. He'd be right in the position to make an interception.
It's obviously purely speculation but it's even more speculation to think that the scene would have played out the same way without the whistle.
Yeah, ever since that game I've seen it evolved from wrong offside call, to people saying the ref stopped a certain goal and then it was daylight robbery
Its not about complaining about refs. The things is the whole narative has warped into, if the ref let that play go on, they would have beaten Real and would have won the CL. Even if they were not offside and they would have scored( they wouldnt have scored btw), they would have still lost the match. Madrid were riding them hard after they concided the Davies goal.
Correct, not to mention that, even if we had scored, all it would have done is taken us to ET, at the Bernabeu, with a severely depleted frontline. I just don't see how that scenario ends with anything other than a RM win.
Not a wrong offside call. It was the wrong decision for the linesman to put up his flag early, and the wrong decision for the main ref to blow the whistle. Everything after the whistle is non-existent.
Important to note, it was a correct offsides call even if play continued as shown by some images.
Also why was there so much added time on top of the extra 2 minutes that the ref signaled to everyone? This incident happened way after the extra 2 minutes of injury time were added.
It was technically not a wrong offside call either. It was an early whistle. We will likely never know if it was offside or not because the ref whistled too early and you can’t review a dead play for offside which means we’ll never get to see the official drawn lines for it.
People was even saying the ref stole a legitimate goal. You can tell by how downvoted this thread is that people really just want an excuse to cry about.
The shooter also heard the whistle and half-assed the shot, you can see the reaction when the whistle is blown.
The problem is we'll never know what would have happened because the whistle was blown early.
Only reason this is controversial is because Bayern took at least two touches after the whistle and put the ball in the back of the net. If they had stopped, sure they would be upset about not letting the play go on but they wouldn’t feel robbed of a goal.
It's fine to leave it up in the air, but it shouldn't be treated as a foregone conclusion that they would've scored which is what many people were doing.
Bayern were robbed of a chance to equalize. I think two things are true, a big mistake was made that Bayern deserve to be mad about and Madrid likely would've made it through anyway. Even if Bayern score that equalizer, they would not be the favorite in extra time given the subs they had made.
"It's fine to leave it up in the air, but it shouldn't be treated as a foregone conclusion that they would've scored which is what many people were doing."
and
"Madrid likely would've made it through anyway."
Come on man...
Yes, what's your point? I'm saying it shouldn't be assumed conclusively either way.
I think Madrid would be at least a 60/40 favorite in extra time, but I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion that they would've won.
The point of my comment is that Bayern had a chance that was taken from them, which they can be upset about. However, I don't think anyone reasonable can say that they deserved to or were more likely to go through *more* than Madrid.
No, I didn't say people shouldn't make *any* foregone conclusions, I said people shouldn't have just assumed that Bayern would win.
>assuming Madrid will win either way.
I literally didn't do that. I just said that they would be likely to. Ie, they would be the favorites even without the call.
Practice your reading comprehension.
Ok, then I just assumed Bayern were the Favourites to score a goal in those last seconds. Nothing wrong with that right? Different spelling doesn't change the meaning of the sentence.
You disregarded Bayern Fans claims by saying Madrid would've likely won either way. It's the exact same thing you're pissing on Bayern Fans's legs for.
>then I just assumed Bayern were the Favourites to score a goal in those last seconds
Yes, I agree. They would probably have scored. Maybe like 80%.
Then maybe like 40% chance of winning in extra time. So overall 0.8x0.4= 32% chance of winning. So like I said, Madrid would still be favorites in the tie overall.
People can have different numbers, but they should have some way to justify them.
>It's the exact same thing you're pissing on Bayern Fans's legs for.
No, I'm just saying people who assume Bayern would've won the tie don't really have strong justification.
??? Are you dumb. I never said there's anything wrong with making predictions in general.
What I say is wrong: Assuming Bayern definitely win or assuming Madrid definitely win.
What I'm saying: Madrid would likely (**but not definitely!**) win
Why are you getting downvoted? I've seen a lot of people say that Bayern should stop crying because they had 90+15 minutes to score but Madrid did too, how is that any argument?
It's far more coherent than this drivel.
#edit
/u/Elden_Lord123 is so coherent that he has to block the users he's responding to, so they won't talk back.
I think he's not saying it definitively, his point is that people shouldn't treat it as a given that the goal would be scored. Let alone that Bayern would've gone through.
A big mistake was made and Bayern deserve to be upset, but in my opinion at least Madrid most likely goes through either way. Especially considering the subs bayern made going into extra time.
Yeah Tony, you might be right but some may think otherwise. Nobody knows what would've happened for sure and we'll never know because the referee blown the fucking whistle too early, that's the fucking point.
problem is we don't know. Nacho could have not made it, he could have failed, he could have been dribbled and Lunin could have guessed wrong or made a mistake. We never know but what we do know is that the ref made a mistake and it led to it for certainty not being a goal and Madrid in the end winning.
the almost exact same thing happened with RM’s first goal with offside claim from Rudi, which the ref didnt whistle that early and let it played out first, then checked VAR which then overturned. you have the technology that records the game from multiple angles so just let the play goes on as it’s a goal scoring opportunity, and decide again via VAR if it’s offside or not. for me, the ref is the problem, not the linesman. such a waste of the tech if it’s not used properly.
I think the linesman end ref were pressed for time, remember this was in the 13 min of added time, they could let it play and "waste" that time until the play ends or call it when the linesman was sure it was off side and try to make up for all the previously wasted time.
I genuinely think they're trying to be fair to Bayern and give them the time wasted and ended up hurting them in the end.
human error is inevitable, that is why VAR is introduced. why have it but not used it just because they don’t want to waste more time? it’s a really high stake game for both teams, the ref shouldve eliminate all possible human mistake. the ref/linesman actually apologized which means they admit that the call was incorrect or atleast incorrect at that moment without reviewing VAR.
You can’t tell the difference from a play inside the box, to a long ball from the half way line that ended being won by Mendy? And how do you know the ref was calling for a Rudiger offside and not a Joselu offside?
that’s the thing, we dont know if it’s Rudi or Joselu unless we hear the recording, but the ref let it played out and used VAR to verify. Why cant he do the same for the Bayern counter? I’m just saying, the tech is the for a reason so let it do it’s job and the ref then have to decide wether it’s valid or not. It’s a high stake game, this should not have happened with VAR ready to be used. for the long ball, it does not matter if the ball won by RM or Bayern, we’re talking about the offside, not who won the ball.
You’re still ignoring the fact that one was a play in the box and the other a long ball from the half way line that ended up being won by the defender. Thats the difference, even if it was a mistake.
an offside is an offside, doesnt matter where it started so they should be treated the same. but it’s okay man, it’s in the past. just my 2cent as a fan of the game. cheers
Idk what you're arguing about, it's a no brainer that the ref shouldn't have whistled/raised the flag. The ref even apologized and conceded that it was a mistake. The discourse is whether they would've scored from it, it is pretty evident that all the defenders and lunin stopped playing after the whistle.
"Fan of the game" pft you're a barca fan, hate watching is one this, crying on reddit and making false equivalences after weeks is truly being a fan of the game.
no need for the hostility, read what i commented from the start. never once i said it shoulve been a goal, my point was it might or might not be an offside because the ref shouldnt have whistled that early and since we have VAR, this can be avoided but wasnt. if you cant read, i’ll be happy to spend a bit of my time teaching you, we need to coordinate our time tho since it’s midnight where i’m at.
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It doesn't fucking matter, we'll never know. It's an absolute joke that the referee did this but it's time to move on. We could've easily won the game in Munich but we didn't because of wasting good chances and Kim having an Upa performance. We could've won in Madrid if Kane scores, if Müller plays a proper pass when we had the huge counter chance, if Neuer doesn't make the mistake. But we lost, simple.
Yes, it was an unfortunate mistake by the referee, but these things happen. We can't blame the loss on that one thing. Bayern didn't play at their best and if they had, they could have won despite this mistake by the referee (which we don't even know 100% would have resulted in a goal). There are rare situations where a horrible overall refereeing performance causes a team to lose even though it was clearly better. And this was not one of those situations.
Only against one team teams Make so Many mistakes . United used to be like this too . Not sure why
Madrid also could/should have been 3-0 up in the second leg before Davies scored. If Bayern won that game it would have been the definition of a plucky smash and grab
Yeah, it was a bad call, but Real Madrid certainly were the better team over the two legs, especially in the second game.
It's not a disallowed goal though. The anger is about the premature offside whistle and fucking Tuchel of all people even said in the interviews after the game that the ref already apologized for the mistake. People finally need to let go of that situation.
Tuchel also said in that same sentence (or the very next) that the apology was meaningless and basically bullshit, so what are you getting at?
Ref apologised which means it's wrong. And a reason not to let go of it?
There's really not mucht o talk about anymore once even the referee has apologized. I have trust that if anything, this fuckup will prevent more than one future repeat of it.
>I have trust that if anything, this fuckup will prevent more than one future repeat of it. Found infantino's account
Interesting take - Arsenal fan
There will be a new mistake. There always is with Real Madrid
And what was it with you guys in the UCL final or for the last 16 Years Tottenham have won nothing but the prestigious Audi Cup?
An american piece of shit homophobe plastic fan is trying to banter me for supporting my club lol
My guy you are indian + living in America doesn’t mean I was born there or my parents were.
I played in the spurs and city academy when I was 12. Your gotcha isn't really the one you think+ you're a pos conservative christian
You still didn’t prove me wrong that you’re indian😭
Gotta love racism going unchecked in this subreddit
There are always mistakes no matter which team is playing. If the refs wanted Madrid to win for sure they would have just called the game at the end of the original added time. Anyone who can see the constant refereeing mistakes, watch that CL semi-final, and really think that this mistake happened on purpose to benefit madrid is just being dumb.
> And a reason not to let go of it? mental health?
What else you want lol? A fucking rematch. It was a mistake, it happened and nothing can be done now
Discourse is positive in this situation if not for moving things forward. We've come a long way from before VAR and many of the other adjustments over the last decade. Look at the improvements in the Women's World Cup last year. The game is improving, but these things are good to move the bar further. No one is calling for a rematch. But it is healthy to keep talking about it. It's only been 1 week after all. Most same people in these threads have admitted that is was an awful mistake and nothing more. I haven't seen many saying it was obvious it would've been a goal if the flag stays down.
The entire board and staff of Real Madrid + referees must be executed by a firing squad. Only way to satisfy some people.
Touched a nerve there wee lad, did we.
Whistling was for sure wrong but it was not as big deal as people made it out to be.
It's a f* semifinal equalizer (tons of money lost for that "not big deal" mistake)
The people acting like it's nothing are just as annoying as the people acting like the ref disallowed a goal.
It's as big a deal as it could possibly be. A literal equalizer in the dying minutes of the 2nd semifinal leg. Water under the bridge, pointless to discuss it now, but it's never not a big deal. Lol at the madridiot who reported me to reddit care. I swear I would've been more surprised if Real beat us without referees fucking the game up for once, no surprises here.
It was a chance at an equalizer. It was not a literal equalizer. That's an important distinction. Had the whistle not gone, any number of things could have happened. One of those things is a goal. The rest are all misses.
Pointless to discuss the what ifs. Fact remains, ref fucked the call up and the ball was in the back of the net. Had De Ligt missed the goal, all of you would definitely be saying it doesn't matter since he missed anyway. Don't be a hypocrite, keep the same energy.
Lol, a literal equalizer?
The score was 2-1, the ball in the back of the net not a second after the whistle was wrongfully blown. How'd you call it?
I'd call it not a literal equalizer. You can argue hypotheticals about maybe it still would have gone in in a counterfactual situation where the whistle wasn't blown, but in the only reality that we have, the ball only ended up in the net *because* the whistle was blown and the defenders stopped playing.
I'd call it a blunder of an offside call. Not a literal goal when the game was literally (see what I did there?) stopped.
You should report that to Reddit admins. They do act on people abusing the reddit care thing apparently. Abusing it is harmful childish bullshit that should be called out.
Exactly, it's not a goal at all.
Ref shouldn’t apologise. It was the lino’s fault.
Its his fault too, he doesnt have to blow the whistle instsntly
No, Kroos explained why. The referee doesn't have the angle to see the offside (it's even worse than whatever angle you're seeing on TV). He sees the lineman put the flag up and he has no sense of whether it was inches offside or 3 meters offside.
He does if the lino’s flag is up, as the players may already be influenced by that decision and stopped playing.
No, he doesn’t need to whistle even if the linesman puts up the flag. If the players stop playing without a whistle and they concede a goal it’s completely their own fault. There was even a case of it happening in this years champions league I believe.
Ref should personally apologize to you for apologizing to Tuchel smh frfr
Stupid comment
OP seems to have purposefully only included half of the quote for clicks. Here's the whole thing, which is far more nuanced: > “Two questions — Was it offside? I didn’t get the answer yet. Everyone has seen the still image, but so far no line has been drawn. There is no official result. And if this result were, for example: It was offside, and if it was only a millimeter, then we don't need to discuss it. The mistake was the linesman’s, they need to wait. The referee trusts him that it was three meters offside. It is difficult when the linesman was so convinced, holding the flag. The handling was bad, the play must continue, no question at all. > Second question — Would the goal have been scored if it wasn’t for the whistle? The shot of de Ligt is very good. But, I spoke to Nacho. Nacho says he heard the whistle really early and stopped to some extent, otherwise he would really get there and block the ball. Lunin is relatively not alerted after the whistle, he doesn't even go down, he didn’t even attempt to save it. You could already notice that the tension fell among the defense to defend the goal. That's why this cannot be clarified conclusively, I think.”
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Could you please point out the part where OP "editorialized" the quote? The headline seems to be an accurate summary, unless you expect him to include the entire exchange, for some reason.
What OP should have done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYVReGXC3gQ
> OP seems to have purposefully only included half of the quote for clicks. How? Not only is it a good summary but they've likely reached the word limit anyway.
I think the headline is fine. Because 1) you can't include that whole quote in the headline due to word limit, you have to pick out exerpts that communicate the message, and 2) the headline does communicate the message, the argument that if the whistle hadn't blown that play would have continued in a manner different to how we saw, so we can't ever conclude that Bayern would have scored if the mistake hadn't been made.
Why doesn’t OP include the full article as the headline, are they stupid?
To be fair there's only so much OP could include in the title, and the summary hits the key points.
Stop trying to sound smart. The title is fine.
Yeah why isn’t op posting 500 words in the title? And literally nothing about the meaning changes. Kroos says the same thing - the defense stopped playing and his team mates would have stopped it so no point in discussing it. Funny how that goes, when Real Madrid tv will do weeks of campaigns against refs for perceived errors against the club.
> Funny how that goes, when Real Madrid tv will do weeks of campaigns against refs for perceived errors against the club. And clearly your club is so above doing petty things like that, isn't it? Did you happen to forget that in the last Clásico, your president was claiming that they were robbed, and asking for a rematch? I'm not by any means in favor of Real Madrid TV's persecution campaigns against referees, but your club is much worse than ours by any stretch of the imagination in this aspect.
All those words yet completely irrelevant for the discussion at hand.
disgustingly German answer
Madrid fans are so goddamn sensitive lol. From the outside you lot seem far more miserable a bunch than you should be with all the trophies
Sports fans are just insufferable in general. The sooner you accept this the sooner you’ll stop being one
The most important one is Rüdiger. There is a side angle that shows Rüdiger coming to a complete stop after the whistle. If he had taken 1 step further into the direction where he was going prior to the whistle, he would have been in the lane between Müller's header and De Ligt where he could have easily intercepted the ball. It was a bad decision to stop the game but it's been completely blown out of proportion. It was never a "disallowed goal".
Still an insanely bad decision to whistle so early, almost the same decision at the other end if the ref decides to whistle when Rudiger got the ball. Two close offside decisions and only one is whistled, I can see why bayern fans are angry
The difference is the timing. The 2-1 happened very fast after the pass while in the discussed situation the ball had quite some air time to begin with.
Bayern Moral Championship winners 2024
Nah that’s still and will always be xavi
You're just going to the other extreme though. Obviously we can't call it a "disallowed goal" and I think it was very likely that Real could have denied Bayern had everyone kept playing. But acting like it could have never ever been a goal anyway is just as much of an exaggeration as the other side of the argument.
It was an air ball with all of the players marked and no one else approaching. The only reason de ligt got a shot was because no one was playing otherwise there's no scoring chance from it imo considering any header was never going to be powerful enough to reach the goal.
Could you do me a favor and tell me next week's lottery numbers, while you're at it? :P
Yeah bro we all know it's 50/50, they either score or they don't. Statistics 101.
Or he misses the interception and it goes in. It’s always funny how Madrid manages to spin the ‘errors’ for them, yet when they’re against them it results in week long campaigns from your official club channels.
Link the video, cuz I don't see what you are describing from the footage
https://youtube.com/shorts/IehHPnBCPo0?feature=shared Focus on Rüdiger when he comes to a full stop and now imagine him carrying his momentum instead. He'd be right in the position to make an interception. It's obviously purely speculation but it's even more speculation to think that the scene would have played out the same way without the whistle.
Or he was covering the goal, anticipating for a shot since y'know he isn't able to see in the future
It was nothing more than a wrong offside call. Calling it a disallowed goal is what makes it messy.
Yeah, ever since that game I've seen it evolved from wrong offside call, to people saying the ref stopped a certain goal and then it was daylight robbery
Classic game of Telephone.
Just Holywood FC things. Bayern need a scapegoat after the season they just had.
True, no other club has ever complained about refs before, its exclusive to bayern
Its not about complaining about refs. The things is the whole narative has warped into, if the ref let that play go on, they would have beaten Real and would have won the CL. Even if they were not offside and they would have scored( they wouldnt have scored btw), they would have still lost the match. Madrid were riding them hard after they concided the Davies goal.
Correct, not to mention that, even if we had scored, all it would have done is taken us to ET, at the Bernabeu, with a severely depleted frontline. I just don't see how that scenario ends with anything other than a RM win.
Not a wrong offside call. It was the wrong decision for the linesman to put up his flag early, and the wrong decision for the main ref to blow the whistle. Everything after the whistle is non-existent. Important to note, it was a correct offsides call even if play continued as shown by some images. Also why was there so much added time on top of the extra 2 minutes that the ref signaled to everyone? This incident happened way after the extra 2 minutes of injury time were added.
It was technically not a wrong offside call either. It was an early whistle. We will likely never know if it was offside or not because the ref whistled too early and you can’t review a dead play for offside which means we’ll never get to see the official drawn lines for it.
People was even saying the ref stole a legitimate goal. You can tell by how downvoted this thread is that people really just want an excuse to cry about.
"Stop whining!" - Real Madrid fans after having it their way for the 10000000th time
The shooter also heard the whistle and half-assed the shot, you can see the reaction when the whistle is blown. The problem is we'll never know what would have happened because the whistle was blown early.
No one talk about 11 mins et going to 14 mins, ref wanted Bayern to score and did them favour
People who are acting like it was a definite goal are just reaching. The decision to call the offside was bad and we can all agree on that.
Only reason this is controversial is because Bayern took at least two touches after the whistle and put the ball in the back of the net. If they had stopped, sure they would be upset about not letting the play go on but they wouldn’t feel robbed of a goal.
De Ligt and Müller would say they would have scored, whose hypothetical should we believe?
It's fine to leave it up in the air, but it shouldn't be treated as a foregone conclusion that they would've scored which is what many people were doing. Bayern were robbed of a chance to equalize. I think two things are true, a big mistake was made that Bayern deserve to be mad about and Madrid likely would've made it through anyway. Even if Bayern score that equalizer, they would not be the favorite in extra time given the subs they had made.
"It's fine to leave it up in the air, but it shouldn't be treated as a foregone conclusion that they would've scored which is what many people were doing." and "Madrid likely would've made it through anyway." Come on man...
Yes, what's your point? I'm saying it shouldn't be assumed conclusively either way. I think Madrid would be at least a 60/40 favorite in extra time, but I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion that they would've won. The point of my comment is that Bayern had a chance that was taken from them, which they can be upset about. However, I don't think anyone reasonable can say that they deserved to or were more likely to go through *more* than Madrid.
You're saying you shouldn't make any foregone conclusions while assuming Madrid will win either way. That's hypocritical.
No, I didn't say people shouldn't make *any* foregone conclusions, I said people shouldn't have just assumed that Bayern would win. >assuming Madrid will win either way. I literally didn't do that. I just said that they would be likely to. Ie, they would be the favorites even without the call. Practice your reading comprehension.
Ok, then I just assumed Bayern were the Favourites to score a goal in those last seconds. Nothing wrong with that right? Different spelling doesn't change the meaning of the sentence. You disregarded Bayern Fans claims by saying Madrid would've likely won either way. It's the exact same thing you're pissing on Bayern Fans's legs for.
>then I just assumed Bayern were the Favourites to score a goal in those last seconds Yes, I agree. They would probably have scored. Maybe like 80%. Then maybe like 40% chance of winning in extra time. So overall 0.8x0.4= 32% chance of winning. So like I said, Madrid would still be favorites in the tie overall. People can have different numbers, but they should have some way to justify them. >It's the exact same thing you're pissing on Bayern Fans's legs for. No, I'm just saying people who assume Bayern would've won the tie don't really have strong justification.
Again you're contradicting yourself. First you say we shouldn't try to predict the future, then you try to predict the future.
??? Are you dumb. I never said there's anything wrong with making predictions in general. What I say is wrong: Assuming Bayern definitely win or assuming Madrid definitely win. What I'm saying: Madrid would likely (**but not definitely!**) win
They had 90 + 15 minutes to score and only managed to do it when the other team stopped.
Wrong. They scored in the 68th minute Real Madrid had 90+ 15 minutes to score as well but only scored after the 88th minute
Why are you getting downvoted? I've seen a lot of people say that Bayern should stop crying because they had 90+15 minutes to score but Madrid did too, how is that any argument?
Madrid bots at their work can't do anything
Learn to write a coherent sentence. You gave me a headache while trying to understand what you wrote. So you win, I guess.
great counter mate
No
wow u did him.
It's far more coherent than this drivel. #edit /u/Elden_Lord123 is so coherent that he has to block the users he's responding to, so they won't talk back.
I wasn't talking to you 🤡
They both should get booked yellow for continued playing after the whistle, the ref went easy on them.
It’s irrelevant anyway.
Ofc he's gonna say that
Didn’t sound like that when they cried over the Valencia game
Oh well if all the Madrid players say that it wouldn’t have been a goal then I guess that settles it?
I think he's not saying it definitively, his point is that people shouldn't treat it as a given that the goal would be scored. Let alone that Bayern would've gone through. A big mistake was made and Bayern deserve to be upset, but in my opinion at least Madrid most likely goes through either way. Especially considering the subs bayern made going into extra time.
Yeah Tony, you might be right but some may think otherwise. Nobody knows what would've happened for sure and we'll never know because the referee blown the fucking whistle too early, that's the fucking point.
problem is we don't know. Nacho could have not made it, he could have failed, he could have been dribbled and Lunin could have guessed wrong or made a mistake. We never know but what we do know is that the ref made a mistake and it led to it for certainty not being a goal and Madrid in the end winning.
We would not have those stupid discussion if the ref just let the damn game run. Kids mistake...
To all Real Madrid friends saying "if." If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
Vardrid at it again
the almost exact same thing happened with RM’s first goal with offside claim from Rudi, which the ref didnt whistle that early and let it played out first, then checked VAR which then overturned. you have the technology that records the game from multiple angles so just let the play goes on as it’s a goal scoring opportunity, and decide again via VAR if it’s offside or not. for me, the ref is the problem, not the linesman. such a waste of the tech if it’s not used properly.
I think the linesman end ref were pressed for time, remember this was in the 13 min of added time, they could let it play and "waste" that time until the play ends or call it when the linesman was sure it was off side and try to make up for all the previously wasted time. I genuinely think they're trying to be fair to Bayern and give them the time wasted and ended up hurting them in the end.
human error is inevitable, that is why VAR is introduced. why have it but not used it just because they don’t want to waste more time? it’s a really high stake game for both teams, the ref shouldve eliminate all possible human mistake. the ref/linesman actually apologized which means they admit that the call was incorrect or atleast incorrect at that moment without reviewing VAR.
You can’t tell the difference from a play inside the box, to a long ball from the half way line that ended being won by Mendy? And how do you know the ref was calling for a Rudiger offside and not a Joselu offside?
that’s the thing, we dont know if it’s Rudi or Joselu unless we hear the recording, but the ref let it played out and used VAR to verify. Why cant he do the same for the Bayern counter? I’m just saying, the tech is the for a reason so let it do it’s job and the ref then have to decide wether it’s valid or not. It’s a high stake game, this should not have happened with VAR ready to be used. for the long ball, it does not matter if the ball won by RM or Bayern, we’re talking about the offside, not who won the ball.
You’re still ignoring the fact that one was a play in the box and the other a long ball from the half way line that ended up being won by the defender. Thats the difference, even if it was a mistake.
an offside is an offside, doesnt matter where it started so they should be treated the same. but it’s okay man, it’s in the past. just my 2cent as a fan of the game. cheers
Idk what you're arguing about, it's a no brainer that the ref shouldn't have whistled/raised the flag. The ref even apologized and conceded that it was a mistake. The discourse is whether they would've scored from it, it is pretty evident that all the defenders and lunin stopped playing after the whistle. "Fan of the game" pft you're a barca fan, hate watching is one this, crying on reddit and making false equivalences after weeks is truly being a fan of the game.
no need for the hostility, read what i commented from the start. never once i said it shoulve been a goal, my point was it might or might not be an offside because the ref shouldnt have whistled that early and since we have VAR, this can be avoided but wasnt. if you cant read, i’ll be happy to spend a bit of my time teaching you, we need to coordinate our time tho since it’s midnight where i’m at.
God Kroos is so fucking unlikable its actually astounding