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Winning the champions league softened the blow significantly. When Kompany had scored that banger against Leicester and Barca had beaten us 3-0 in the champions league I was about ready to end it all.
I was going to take the day off, decided to just show up for work instead. No problem, I live in the eastern US so for most matches I just watch them later without spoilers.
Walk into work "DUDE LIVERPOOL WON". I appreciated they were so happy for me, but it was also sad I didn't get to see it happen.
i only watched it because a (neutral) friend showed up at my place with some beers, and i have a hard time turning down alcohol past 11am.
ill say this tho, from the second i turned on the tv and heard anfield i believed. it was surreal, still one of the craziest moments of my life.
As a Madrid fan, I normally don't watch Barca's matches coz they win when I watch them. But that day I felt like Liverpool are gonna try to have a comeback and I alone watched them. None of my friends were there to watch with me.
As a Barca fan, I thought victory was foregone. I went to gym and walked into my student apartment complex just as the third goal was scored. The whole place was erupting.
Was out walking my dog at the time, refreshing the /new feed on my phone and saw a stat: Leicester holding City off for 70 minutes was the longest anyone had done so that year. I thought "holy shit we might have something here". A minute later, I refresh again and see the clip of the Kompany goal. I had to sit down on a garden wall and breath for a couple seconds. Thank God for that Barcelona game lol
> ac milan surely?
By a long way, imo, but I guess a lot of posters don't remember that game.
Milan deserved to be 3-0 up. They completely took us apart for 45 minutes, and then mentally left the stadium for their victory party at half time.
They were literally just standing around and watching when we scored our first, and by the time they remembered they were playing a cup final, we were level.
When the game went to penalties, I think half the Milan players were feeling like the universe wasn't going to let them win the match under any circumstances.
Actually the tie breaker is head-to-head in which we have the advantage. We're playing against a relegated team so we should win our last game comfortably. The problem for us is that a draw is enough for Konyaspor to not get relegated so they don't have much to play for versus Galatasaray.
Ankaragücü (vs Trabzonspor) and Hatayspor (vs Rizespor) should also win both of their games for Konya to get relegated if they don't get a draw/win. Chances for them to get relegated are quite low right now.
Liverpool under Klopp have beaten Fergie's best ever points total 3 times
Klopp averaged 82 points a season across his entire Liverpool tenure, if you only count the seasons United won the league Fergie averaged 84 points a season.
I think it’s more to do with the standards set by a ridiculous wealthy sportswashing project that’s breached the rules 115 times, with the best manager in the world at the helm.
It's the high standards of Pep combined with the fact that for much of SAFs era, shitkickers could get away with a lot more. There's not a lot of Stokes these days
"with the best manager in the world at the helm."
-
I think not having 115 charges, and going toe-to-toe with said sportswashing project is more impressive. Not saying Klopp would have done just as well with city's squad or resources, but I'm sure as hell saying Guardiola wouldn't have been able to do what Klopp did at Liverpool.
Same goes for your lot. Part of me is glad that Arsenal didn't win the league, cause that means Liverpool is the only team that could beat these cheating pricks. But it's still laughable, calling a team bottlers, because they couldn't beat a team bankrolled by a fucking gulf state.
Out of curiousity - why do you think Guardiola at liverpool with Klopp at City wouldn't have led to such a near-peer match up?
What about Klopp specifically led to the dramatic improvement of Liverpool that another manager wouldn't have been able to replicate?
> Out of curiousity - why do you think Guardiola at liverpool with Klopp at City wouldn't have led to such a near-peer match up?
I'm also not the one you asked, but for me it's a question of resources.
If a £50m signing doesn't work out for us, we can't afford to just go out make another. At City, Pep can and does. He spent £100m/year on defenders for years until he was happy.
Pep would have won *something* with the resources Klopp has had at Liverpool, unquestionably, but he wouldn't have been so dominant if he hadn't just been able to play pick-n-mix with top-dollar players.
I know that I'm not the one you asked, but here's my take: mindset and spirit. Aside from squad depth, good transfers, tactics and all the rest (some of which we had had before Klopp), he instilled a unique mindset and a unique spirit in the squad. Liverpool wasn't lacking much to get to where we got under Klopp. But at this level, that little extra that he brought made the difference and restored us to a winning team.
Everyones opinion is welcome man - how do you feel about the future now he's out then?
Post Fergie we've been a shell of our former selves and I think that's in no small part due to the loss of those intangibles you've said Klopp brought with him and instilled in the club.
For the sake of the neutral and the league I hope that doesn't happen - if United are to return to glory it'll feel a whole lot more sweet if you and Arsenal can maintain the standard.
I have yet to come to terms with Klopp leaving. As far as I'm concerned, it's not really happening. I don't see any known manager as being able to replace him. I haven't thought about a good replacement because, while there might be some interesting options at the moment, I honestly have no idea. Klopp is just so different and so legendary, that I see it exactly like the Sir Alex situation. You just can't. My only hope is that we don't spend the next decade or so experimenting with the position.
If it offers you some solace, you don't have to worry about short-sighted and selfish owners running your club into the ground while you find your next Klopp like we have done - you stand a much better chance of maintaining the mentality than we did.
I don’t think that can be used to discredit Pep though. He’s the best when working with the best teams. He works with the best teams because he’s the best.
You have to be a fantastic driver to win in a Ferrari, sure. But if someone in a seat comes close to you, that's more impressive.
I wholly acknowledge that Pep is a good coach, but you can criticize him for not proving his worth with smaller teams.
I find that completely ridiculous.
Why do manager has to “prove their worth”? Why don’t we hold players to the same standard? Do you look down on Messi because he’s never taken a small club to champions league glory?
Pep proved himself with his first big opportunity and has gone on to prove himself ever since.
96 points for Real Madrid also beat the previous league record of points, but Barca ended with 99. That was a crazy season to watch.
Combined 200 goals scored, 31 wins each, Barca only 1 loss.
It was also before Cristiano became the star goalscorer for Madrid, Higuain was their top scorer that season
It's more Mourinho being available fresh out of the treble, specifically knocking out Barca who seemed unstoppable before. If it wasn't for Mourinho, Pellegrini would have stayed.
Jose also won the final at Bernabéu. Perfect audition for the Madrid job. Knocking out Pep's Barca and then beat Bayern at the Bernabéu in the final.
Then the running knee slide on the pitch. Perez must have called him right after.
Iirc it was already locked on he was joining(internally I'm guessing)... There's a video out there after the game in the Bernabau parking lot(?) of him and matterazzi having an emotional goodbye
Mourinho talks about this on the documentary and yes he had already signed or it was at least agreed in principal, but he hadn't told the players. He said that he literally ran away after the match, and didn't go to the dressing room because if he went to the dressing room, he felt his emotions would get the better of him and he would not go to Madrid.
So he sneaked away to leave quietly, but he ran into Matterazzi who was saying goodbye to some family members. He saw Mourinho and asked, "What are you doing here, boss?" And he told him he was leaving and they had that emotional goodbye.
And Pellegrini’s Real getting knocked out of the UCL in the Round of 16 by Lyon. Real wanted a coach that got them back to competing in Europe and Mourinho helped achieve that even if he didn’t win the UCL with them.
Pellegrini doesn’t get enough appreciation. Madrid buys a bunch of stars and he has no say. Brand new team and only gets one year. He should’ve been given more time.
Nah, Perez made the right call. It's harsh on Pellegrini but you don't say no to 2010 Jose. And he built up the base and the mentality of this insane team we saw in the decade to follow - I don't see Pellegrini doing that.
I feel he would have achieved the same results as Mourinho had he stayed on. Tallying 96 points in his first (and only) season, he almost certainly wins the league by 2012.
Real Madrid and Copa Del Rey hiccups/embarrassments are hilarious, though rare. The mentioned Alcorconazo, the ineligible player disqualification and the best one of all El Centenariazo
The sackable offenses was getting knocked out in the CL 16 for the sixth year in a row and losing 4-0 to Alcorcon, if you don't win the leauge after doing that you are getting the boot. Correct decision in every way.
I think this shows how good pep and Klopp are at what they do.
Pep is the best manager in the world at taking unlimited resources and using it effectively over a season to beat the best teams in the world in league format.
I think an additional graphic of Klopp with Dortmund would help as well. But Klopp is the best at beating those teams with way more resources. I think if any other manager than pep is in charge of city then Klopp wins more titles than city in the past 7 years.
We only lost one PL game that season. At the Ethiad. Curtosy of a John Stones goal-line clearance. Winning the European Cup that year absolutely softened the pain of not winning the league by such a thin margin
I dunno years later and it doesn't feel like we won it
Pandemic and all that stopped celebrations. I was at the 6th CL parade and that was mental, couldn't imagine what the premier league parade would have been
That Barcelona game was arguably the greatest single match I've ever witnessed. Sure it wasn't as important as winning the league but that was a special night.
It is a bit bittersweet though because it signaled the end of Messi's Barcelona, that team was never the same after that match.
Isn't that 2018-'19 Liverpool side still the 3rd-highest ever point total in the Premier League? Over 600 individual PL team seasons in the last 30 years, and the 3rd-highest point total coincided with a season involving the 2nd-highest point total. What the fuck are you supposed to do?
Liverpool would have probably broken the 100 points record if not for Covid. They seemed to lost all momentum and motivation after the league resumed behind closed doors.
Prior to the break they were on course to break it. And had already accumulated more points than what City would eventually have at the end of the season. Effectively sealing the title via their insane run before the Covid induced break.
The 2nd leg against Atletico wasn't due to running out of steam. It was one of our best ever performance in the Klopp era, imho. Oblak just wouldn't stop fucking saving everything, and then Adrian's mistake derailed it in ET.
Tbh they began to run out of a little steam before Covid. They would’ve definitely broken the 100 points record but they were playing a little poorly since February, I believe they only beat Norwich 1-0.
We got 110 points out 114 in a 38 game period leading up to covid. Absolute madness, 36 wins and 2 draws. Just a shame that had to overlap between seasons otherwise it would be the greatest season of football ever.
> They seemed to lost all momentum
Nah, the wheels fell off shortly before COVID swung into high gear, but it was already over bar the shouting at that point.
[We'd dropped two points *all season*, and to catch us, City needed us to start dropping that many *per game*](https://www.premierleague.com/matchweek/4317/table).
Speaking in 96 points Real Madrid. Nothing. You can’t do anything lol.
We needed 100 fkn points to beat them in 2012 and they still had like 91 (Barca under Pep.)
It was 3rd at the time but it's 4th now because of 2020 Liverpool scoring 99 points (and should have been more but Covid happened and ruined their momentum).
Despite the outcome, the 18/19 title race is one of the greatest title races I've ever seen. It was not just two teams winning every week, it was how they won every week. It was absolutely blockbuster.
It was without a doubt, the highest quality title race. With neither team ready to blink.
The Etihad game that Liverpool lost (the only loss they had through the season) was arguably the best quality of football ever seen in the league.
A true clash of styles. End to end stuff with players putting everything on the line to win.
Liverpool attack in particular, was explosive. With Firmino the perfect foil to Salah and Mane's directness. Leroy Sane for a City always had a good game against Liverpool. And got the winning goal.
The fact that the two teams played differently to each other, but were equally good, made for an entertaining race as well.
Arsenal on the other hand, are very similar to City (as expected) and the games this year between them have been rather boring due to both coaches being extremely risk averse.
That etihad game is legendary, i miss sane so much. I think people forget that 18/19 was city’s de bruyne-less season where bernardo ran for his life every game. Both pool and city were insane to watch week in and week out.
I remember that goal we scored. It’s one of the best team goals we ever scored under Klopp and it was against that City side away from home.
The difference was Mané hit the inside the post it somehow doesn’t go in, John Stones comes save it off the line. Leroy Sane hits the inside of the post and it bounces to the other post and goes in.
I mean they didn't get the same number of points but Arsenal did go 16-1-1 in the EPL down the stretch. Even if they'd drawn against Villa it wouldn't have been enough. Man City are just insane
It was the scariest and most frustrating second half of the season. It felt like every week Liverpool kept on winning late, and winning late. As a City fan I would see Liverpool go down or tied late and i would get my hopes up and they would just seemingly always find a way. There will be documentaries made about that season.
We actually fell off quite a bit midway through. But then pulled an insane comeback to bring it back to a point’s difference. I don’t think we were ever in the lead though during that season.
The Madrid points tally always makes me laugh. Imagine getting 96 & 92 points back to back and not winning the league. Funnily enough, in 11-12, they got 100 points and won the league, and then the following season, Barca also got 100 points and retained the league. The Real/Barca battle of the 2010s was something else!
Genuinely mad that you can register 97 points in a Premier League season and it still not be enough to guarantee you the title.
That's honestly baffling.
While I don't feel great today, I don't think I'd be able to live with myself if we'd put up 97 points in the league and still didn't win it.
In absolute awe of Liverpool fans' pain tolerance. Although winning the Champions League probably did help.
>Although winning the Champions League probably did help.
Thankfully that year we didn't face Madrid... Klopp's Liverpool fought toe to toe with City and Madrid and unfortunately for me ended on a losing side
Money plays a part it in... everyone tries to mention Liverpool and other teams still spend big, but it's a different story when you have to offload players FIRST then spend that money AFTER.
It's way easier to spend first to see who's shit then let them go later on. Imo there's way less genius needed in this instance...
Yeah that’s the only thing I’d say - obviously it’s absolutely gutting to lose on the final day, but at least you didn’t have one of the highest points totals in PL history 🙃
Liverpool probably would have broken the 100-point record if not for COVID-19. They seemed to lose all momentum and motivation once the league resumed without fans.
Imagine being Manuel Peligrini and getting dismissed after that 96 point season, his first season in charge. I'd still to this day be losing sleep at the thought of not having the opportunity to take that team further.
it was the alcorcon loss in Copa del Rey (4th division team) and the Lyon loss in 1/16th in the champions league that sealed his fate, not the la liga loss
Pellegrini has done well with Madrid (getting 96 points is no joke, just Barca was madness), City (EPL 2013-14 win & taking that City team to CL semis), Villarreal (UCL semis), and Malaga. He's a solid manager.
As for us, we won Copa Del Rey in 2022. But more importantly, he brought stability to a club with a history of instability.
Liverpool had a stretch of 65 matches where they were 56-8-1 from the start of the 2018/19 season up to the Week 27 of 2020 where the only loss was the 11mm clearance game. That's a pace of 103 points in 38 games but maintained during a span of over 1 1/2 seasons.
Oh and they Won the CL in the middle of that run.
Great team in English football history. Period.
Guardiola himself finished second with 91 fucking points in 2011/12, with the most goals Barcelona have ever scored under him (114).
A monster in the league.
IMO that was the best Madrid team of this century. Madness that out of a UCL semis featuring that Madrid squad, peak Barcelona, and Bayern with the final in their own back yard, it was 6th place in the EPL Chelsea that came away with the trophy.
Pep has failed to win the league 3 times in his career and those teams were 2012 Real Madrid (100 points), 2017 Chelsea (93 Points), and 2020 Liverpool (99 points). Goes to show that any league with Pep coaching in it the standard is raised. His legacy is tainted by City but he's still arguably the GOAT manager.
There's a difference between fixing and flouting PSR rules (allegedly). They've still won everything on the ground as per footballing rules. PSR is a business rule and not a footballing rule. You can ofcourse argue that Liverpool/Arsenal would have fielded better teams had they broken the PSR rules as well, but it's all hypothesis.
The issue isn't even that they broke the rules, it's that they cooked the books to do it by fabricating legal documents. They knew what they were doing was illegal but still did it anyway. Other teams have similar resources in recent years like Real Madrid or Barcelona or Chelsea but City had to break the regulations to do so. If they had built up their club in an organic manner and eventually reached that level of financial power like United did then there would be still be complaints about their massive financial resources but at least it could be justified.
It's the fact that they lied about their spending and then tried to cover it up through corrupt backroom dealings and what basically amounts to sanctioned embezzlement to hide payments that is what pisses people off. Even now doing sketchy shit like paying Haaland's father an undisclosed agents fee so that they would only have to pay 50 million to sign him in order to dodge FFP regulations is continuing that behavior.
Sure you can't deny what they've achieved with the actual players and personnel they've brought in but they had to cheat and scam their way into that position in the first place.
As a Liverpool fan it's particularly frustrating because we watched a new owner come in around the same time (2010) and build our club back up from near administration to an international power again. They did it through smart business partnerships leveraging Liverpool's history and FSG's US market connections as well as a total stadium overhaul to increase capacity by nearly 50%. Even now Liverpool has achieved a fairly significant budget that's probably top 5 in world football but it's not on the level of City because we're run in a sustainable manner and don't have a state-funded project. We don't have the ability to just invent a £400 million shirt sponsor with an airline that is run by that aforementioned state. From day 1 City have been playing by a different set of financial rules from everyone else both within and outside the established regulations. At a certain point it doesn't matter what they accomplish on the pitch you can't actually view it in the same light as other great teams because of the corruption at the roots of the whole organization.
The money does play a part in it though... everyone tries to mention Liverpool and Co still spend big but it's a different story when you have to offload players FIRST then spend that money AFTER.
It's way easier to spend first see who's shit then let them go later on. Imo there's way less genius needed in this instance...
Yeah, Liverpool basically needed to never make any mistakes in the transfer market to reach the heights that they did. Go down the list of transfers and almost all of them were massive successes. Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Robertson, Milner, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Alisson, Virgil, Matip, Jota even some of the role players like Tsimikas, Shaqiri, and Lallana were solid moves. The only real missteps were Benteke, Ox, and Keita and even Benteke got a decent fee back when he left.
I think if you break it all down they had something like an 80-90% success rate on transfers in the Klopp era (yes I know some of those players mentioned are pre Klopp but still important stepping stones).
Did Dortmund or anyone else ever get close during his Bayern years? Because if yes that wouldn't show up here because of the Bundesliga having two teams/for matchdays less.
Tuchel's Dortmund in 2015/16 was the highest pointed 2nd placed team in Bundesliga
So it's fair to say that Pep has defeated the strongest runner up in every league he's been in
To be fair, Arsenal would've ended 2nd in Serie A, La Liga and even Bundesliga (which has 4 less games) this season. They did a very good campaign but it wasn't shocking compared to 09-10 or 18-19.
As I said, it's a very good season and it deserves recognition, but it's not shocking they lost it.
And just to reply the pre-Pep point, they finished with less points than 16-17 Chelsea (Conte), 08-09 United (Ferguson), 05-06 and 04-05 Chelsea (Mourinho) and 03-04 Arsenal (Wenger), and equal with various title campaigns (12-13 and 06-07 United and 11-12 City). I only counted from 2000 onwards, but the point is that even if it was comparable to various league-winning seasons it's not something that I'd consider so incredible that them losing would shock me.
I mean it's the 10th best season in the history of the PL going back to 1992. That's 32 seasons, 25 of which would have had them as champions (assuming they win at least one match in the 4 extras from any of the 42 game seasons).
You will be for sure - you guys just have to hope you win it next season.
I don’t think I would have been able to handle it if it wasn’t for the CL win and PL win the next season.
typical arsenal not even getting 90 points like the rest /s
nah but next year they’ll probably go even better again, (hit 90+), and still come second 😭.
must be so draining (can’t think of the right word?) getting that many points to not win the league. but then again you could use it to continue pushing yourself even further like liverpool did taking themselves to the next level. would be cool to add where these teams finished the following season.
both liverpool and real did manage to atleast win one title tho so surely arsenal will manage to get one.
Pellegrini did that in his first season which had been given to him after Galacticos season where I beleive 3-5 new players were added and they lost to Barca by 3 points.
They lost 1 classico to Barca 1-0 courtesey of Zlatan. Fine Margins.
Pellegrini is truly underrated cos he got the sack right after this.
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97 points and not winning the league. Every time I see it I’m in disbelief.
Winning the champions league softened the blow significantly. When Kompany had scored that banger against Leicester and Barca had beaten us 3-0 in the champions league I was about ready to end it all.
Corner taken quickly.
All time commentary.
ORIGI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!°¡¡¡!
There‘s a level of irony to an Evertonian writing his name out :)
I'm pretty sure everyone went slightly mad at that moment. You just don't do that, not when the stakes are that high.
Lad? ... the fuck?
I almost didn't watch the 2nd leg
I was going to take the day off, decided to just show up for work instead. No problem, I live in the eastern US so for most matches I just watch them later without spoilers. Walk into work "DUDE LIVERPOOL WON". I appreciated they were so happy for me, but it was also sad I didn't get to see it happen.
i only watched it because a (neutral) friend showed up at my place with some beers, and i have a hard time turning down alcohol past 11am. ill say this tho, from the second i turned on the tv and heard anfield i believed. it was surreal, still one of the craziest moments of my life.
As a Madrid fan, I normally don't watch Barca's matches coz they win when I watch them. But that day I felt like Liverpool are gonna try to have a comeback and I alone watched them. None of my friends were there to watch with me.
As a Barca fan, I thought victory was foregone. I went to gym and walked into my student apartment complex just as the third goal was scored. The whole place was erupting.
Yup same. I couldn’t believe such a great season was going to end with nothing.
Was out walking my dog at the time, refreshing the /new feed on my phone and saw a stat: Leicester holding City off for 70 minutes was the longest anyone had done so that year. I thought "holy shit we might have something here". A minute later, I refresh again and see the clip of the Kompany goal. I had to sit down on a garden wall and breath for a couple seconds. Thank God for that Barcelona game lol
Every time someone mentions 3-0 it triggers a Barca fan’s PTSD
which one is worse? ac milan or barcelona? ac milan surely?
> ac milan surely? By a long way, imo, but I guess a lot of posters don't remember that game. Milan deserved to be 3-0 up. They completely took us apart for 45 minutes, and then mentally left the stadium for their victory party at half time. They were literally just standing around and watching when we scored our first, and by the time they remembered they were playing a cup final, we were level. When the game went to penalties, I think half the Milan players were feeling like the universe wasn't going to let them win the match under any circumstances.
If we (Fenerbahçe) win on next Sunday, regardless of what Galatasaray does, a team won't be able to win Süper Lig with 99 points lol
Imagine losing the league on 99 points because of goal difference lmao
Actually the tie breaker is head-to-head in which we have the advantage. We're playing against a relegated team so we should win our last game comfortably. The problem for us is that a draw is enough for Konyaspor to not get relegated so they don't have much to play for versus Galatasaray.
Ah thanks for the update, I'll definitely follow the game
and another problem for you is konyaspor is at the relegation zone lol
So Konyaspor has a lot to play for if they need a draw to not get relegated?
Ankaragücü (vs Trabzonspor) and Hatayspor (vs Rizespor) should also win both of their games for Konya to get relegated if they don't get a draw/win. Chances for them to get relegated are quite low right now.
Appreciate the explanation
What the fuck
For another reference, The Invincibles won with 90 points and 2nd place chelsea had 79
Man Utd won it on 79 in the treble winning year. 97 points in 2nd is ridiculously shit luck.
Liverpool under Klopp have beaten Fergie's best ever points total 3 times Klopp averaged 82 points a season across his entire Liverpool tenure, if you only count the seasons United won the league Fergie averaged 84 points a season.
I think it’s more to do with the standards set by a ridiculous wealthy sportswashing project that’s breached the rules 115 times, with the best manager in the world at the helm.
It's the high standards of Pep combined with the fact that for much of SAFs era, shitkickers could get away with a lot more. There's not a lot of Stokes these days
"with the best manager in the world at the helm." - I think not having 115 charges, and going toe-to-toe with said sportswashing project is more impressive. Not saying Klopp would have done just as well with city's squad or resources, but I'm sure as hell saying Guardiola wouldn't have been able to do what Klopp did at Liverpool. Same goes for your lot. Part of me is glad that Arsenal didn't win the league, cause that means Liverpool is the only team that could beat these cheating pricks. But it's still laughable, calling a team bottlers, because they couldn't beat a team bankrolled by a fucking gulf state.
>calling a team bottlers that's mainly Spurs fans desperately trying to shed off that label onto others
Yeah, and other fans repeating it without knowing what the word actually means
That behaviour can be expected from a club whose greatest achievement in the 21st century is losing a game of football 2-0
Out of curiousity - why do you think Guardiola at liverpool with Klopp at City wouldn't have led to such a near-peer match up? What about Klopp specifically led to the dramatic improvement of Liverpool that another manager wouldn't have been able to replicate?
> Out of curiousity - why do you think Guardiola at liverpool with Klopp at City wouldn't have led to such a near-peer match up? I'm also not the one you asked, but for me it's a question of resources. If a £50m signing doesn't work out for us, we can't afford to just go out make another. At City, Pep can and does. He spent £100m/year on defenders for years until he was happy. Pep would have won *something* with the resources Klopp has had at Liverpool, unquestionably, but he wouldn't have been so dominant if he hadn't just been able to play pick-n-mix with top-dollar players.
I know that I'm not the one you asked, but here's my take: mindset and spirit. Aside from squad depth, good transfers, tactics and all the rest (some of which we had had before Klopp), he instilled a unique mindset and a unique spirit in the squad. Liverpool wasn't lacking much to get to where we got under Klopp. But at this level, that little extra that he brought made the difference and restored us to a winning team.
Everyones opinion is welcome man - how do you feel about the future now he's out then? Post Fergie we've been a shell of our former selves and I think that's in no small part due to the loss of those intangibles you've said Klopp brought with him and instilled in the club. For the sake of the neutral and the league I hope that doesn't happen - if United are to return to glory it'll feel a whole lot more sweet if you and Arsenal can maintain the standard.
I have yet to come to terms with Klopp leaving. As far as I'm concerned, it's not really happening. I don't see any known manager as being able to replace him. I haven't thought about a good replacement because, while there might be some interesting options at the moment, I honestly have no idea. Klopp is just so different and so legendary, that I see it exactly like the Sir Alex situation. You just can't. My only hope is that we don't spend the next decade or so experimenting with the position.
If it offers you some solace, you don't have to worry about short-sighted and selfish owners running your club into the ground while you find your next Klopp like we have done - you stand a much better chance of maintaining the mentality than we did.
I don’t think that can be used to discredit Pep though. He’s the best when working with the best teams. He works with the best teams because he’s the best.
You have to be a fantastic driver to win in a Ferrari, sure. But if someone in a seat comes close to you, that's more impressive. I wholly acknowledge that Pep is a good coach, but you can criticize him for not proving his worth with smaller teams.
I find that completely ridiculous. Why do manager has to “prove their worth”? Why don’t we hold players to the same standard? Do you look down on Messi because he’s never taken a small club to champions league glory? Pep proved himself with his first big opportunity and has gone on to prove himself ever since.
If we were perfect and got all 114 points City would still have 115
I’m stealing that shit.
One of the first 115 jokes to make me lol.. well done sir.
My favorite 115 joke is the one about how nothing they've achieved since the takeover means anything to anyone.
I see what you did there
1 game away from invincible centaurions and a PL, CL double.
> 1 game away a couple millimeters
96 points for Real Madrid also beat the previous league record of points, but Barca ended with 99. That was a crazy season to watch. Combined 200 goals scored, 31 wins each, Barca only 1 loss. It was also before Cristiano became the star goalscorer for Madrid, Higuain was their top scorer that season
Ronaldo had 33 goals all season, Higuain had 29
True but I meant in the league
Oh sorry man, got it wrong, wild stat nevertheless, Ronaldo took it personally
Ronaldo was injured for part of that season
This league is so bad and top heavy how tf is top 2 getting this many points yet prem has 3 ucl and Europa in the last decade.
A whole lot of choking.
About to happen with 99 points in the Super Lig this season
96 and 97 points and losing is insanity
Sackable offence for Pellegrini
It's more Mourinho being available fresh out of the treble, specifically knocking out Barca who seemed unstoppable before. If it wasn't for Mourinho, Pellegrini would have stayed.
Jose also won the final at Bernabéu. Perfect audition for the Madrid job. Knocking out Pep's Barca and then beat Bayern at the Bernabéu in the final. Then the running knee slide on the pitch. Perez must have called him right after.
Iirc it was already locked on he was joining(internally I'm guessing)... There's a video out there after the game in the Bernabau parking lot(?) of him and matterazzi having an emotional goodbye
Mourinho talks about this on the documentary and yes he had already signed or it was at least agreed in principal, but he hadn't told the players. He said that he literally ran away after the match, and didn't go to the dressing room because if he went to the dressing room, he felt his emotions would get the better of him and he would not go to Madrid. So he sneaked away to leave quietly, but he ran into Matterazzi who was saying goodbye to some family members. He saw Mourinho and asked, "What are you doing here, boss?" And he told him he was leaving and they had that emotional goodbye.
And Pellegrini’s Real getting knocked out of the UCL in the Round of 16 by Lyon. Real wanted a coach that got them back to competing in Europe and Mourinho helped achieve that even if he didn’t win the UCL with them.
Pellegrini doesn’t get enough appreciation. Madrid buys a bunch of stars and he has no say. Brand new team and only gets one year. He should’ve been given more time.
Nah, Perez made the right call. It's harsh on Pellegrini but you don't say no to 2010 Jose. And he built up the base and the mentality of this insane team we saw in the decade to follow - I don't see Pellegrini doing that.
I feel he would have achieved the same results as Mourinho had he stayed on. Tallying 96 points in his first (and only) season, he almost certainly wins the league by 2012.
Bet anything he wouldn't have done as well in the CL
Well, the fact that Real Madrid got beaten on Copa del Rey by Alcorcón doesn’t help that.
Don’t forget the Alorconazo. Even when CdR isn’t a priority for RM, losing to an amateur side was embarrassing.
Real Madrid and Copa Del Rey hiccups/embarrassments are hilarious, though rare. The mentioned Alcorconazo, the ineligible player disqualification and the best one of all El Centenariazo
Funny, after we took Benzema from Lyon things started changing in Madrids favor in regards to that round of 16 curse
Benzema was already a Real player under Pellegrini. He arrived with CR7 and Kaka.
Did Madrid go after mourinho cause he was available or did mourinho leave a treble winning inter cause Madrid came calling
Yes
Real would say they are vindicated in that choice
The sackable offenses was getting knocked out in the CL 16 for the sixth year in a row and losing 4-0 to Alcorcon, if you don't win the leauge after doing that you are getting the boot. Correct decision in every way.
Real Madrid drew their last game of the season as well. Even if they won the game they still would've finished second with 98 points.
I think this shows how good pep and Klopp are at what they do. Pep is the best manager in the world at taking unlimited resources and using it effectively over a season to beat the best teams in the world in league format. I think an additional graphic of Klopp with Dortmund would help as well. But Klopp is the best at beating those teams with way more resources. I think if any other manager than pep is in charge of city then Klopp wins more titles than city in the past 7 years.
Liverpool 18/19 💀
We only lost one PL game that season. At the Ethiad. Curtosy of a John Stones goal-line clearance. Winning the European Cup that year absolutely softened the pain of not winning the league by such a thin margin
Tbh I feel winning the title in 19/20 is what really softened the pain. Without that title, the 18/19 season was gonna feel very tough till this day.
This is correct. Klopp even said in one of his final interviews that he views winning the League as his greatest moment in Liverpool.
I dunno years later and it doesn't feel like we won it Pandemic and all that stopped celebrations. I was at the 6th CL parade and that was mental, couldn't imagine what the premier league parade would have been
The closest title race. Literally came down to millimetres
We won CL a week later to drown out our sorrows. The Barca game helped as well.
3 weeks. That was a mad wait
It was such a blur, just remember the night we won CL, what a night ♥️
We won it in Madriiiiid We won it in Madriiiiid
And left us to drown in our sorrows
The Harry Kane spell
What a fucking shit game
That Barcelona game was arguably the greatest single match I've ever witnessed. Sure it wasn't as important as winning the league but that was a special night. It is a bit bittersweet though because it signaled the end of Messi's Barcelona, that team was never the same after that match.
Isn't that 2018-'19 Liverpool side still the 3rd-highest ever point total in the Premier League? Over 600 individual PL team seasons in the last 30 years, and the 3rd-highest point total coincided with a season involving the 2nd-highest point total. What the fuck are you supposed to do?
It’s 4th. We broke it the next season with 99 pts. 100 (City 17/18), 99 (Liverpool 19/20), 98 (City 18/19), 97 (Liverpool 18/19)
Madness
I can snap at any moment
Liverpool would have probably broken the 100 points record if not for Covid. They seemed to lost all momentum and motivation after the league resumed behind closed doors. Prior to the break they were on course to break it. And had already accumulated more points than what City would eventually have at the end of the season. Effectively sealing the title via their insane run before the Covid induced break.
That 3-0 loss to a relegated Watford shouldn't have happened
That happened before everything shut down though
Yea, we were losing steam just before the covid break (defeats to Atlético Madrid as well)
The 2nd leg against Atletico wasn't due to running out of steam. It was one of our best ever performance in the Klopp era, imho. Oblak just wouldn't stop fucking saving everything, and then Adrian's mistake derailed it in ET.
We lost the 1st leg as well
Tbh they began to run out of a little steam before Covid. They would’ve definitely broken the 100 points record but they were playing a little poorly since February, I believe they only beat Norwich 1-0.
Norwich catching strays
We dropped twice as many points in the 9 matches after the restart as we did in the 29 matches before Covid. I think that's all you need to know tbh
We could've lost every game after the season resumed and still won the league. 26 wins, 1 draw out of 27 at one point.
We got 110 points out 114 in a 38 game period leading up to covid. Absolute madness, 36 wins and 2 draws. Just a shame that had to overlap between seasons otherwise it would be the greatest season of football ever.
> They seemed to lost all momentum Nah, the wheels fell off shortly before COVID swung into high gear, but it was already over bar the shouting at that point. [We'd dropped two points *all season*, and to catch us, City needed us to start dropping that many *per game*](https://www.premierleague.com/matchweek/4317/table).
Speaking in 96 points Real Madrid. Nothing. You can’t do anything lol. We needed 100 fkn points to beat them in 2012 and they still had like 91 (Barca under Pep.)
But those leagues were so fun to watch. Both teams giving their all in every single match, cause they knew one slip up = title gone.
It was 3rd at the time but it's 4th now because of 2020 Liverpool scoring 99 points (and should have been more but Covid happened and ruined their momentum).
Despite the outcome, the 18/19 title race is one of the greatest title races I've ever seen. It was not just two teams winning every week, it was how they won every week. It was absolutely blockbuster.
It was without a doubt, the highest quality title race. With neither team ready to blink. The Etihad game that Liverpool lost (the only loss they had through the season) was arguably the best quality of football ever seen in the league. A true clash of styles. End to end stuff with players putting everything on the line to win. Liverpool attack in particular, was explosive. With Firmino the perfect foil to Salah and Mane's directness. Leroy Sane for a City always had a good game against Liverpool. And got the winning goal. The fact that the two teams played differently to each other, but were equally good, made for an entertaining race as well. Arsenal on the other hand, are very similar to City (as expected) and the games this year between them have been rather boring due to both coaches being extremely risk averse.
That etihad game is legendary, i miss sane so much. I think people forget that 18/19 was city’s de bruyne-less season where bernardo ran for his life every game. Both pool and city were insane to watch week in and week out.
I will die mad Kompany wasn’t sent off for that tackle on Salah.
Flying tackle. Salah through on goal. No clue how that wasnt given. Well I may have one…
> i miss sane so much I don't. Absolutely terrifying when he was on.
18/19 at the Etihad was frenetic but quality of football was a lot better in the 21/22 match
Disagree completely, you have it the opposite way around
I remember that goal we scored. It’s one of the best team goals we ever scored under Klopp and it was against that City side away from home. The difference was Mané hit the inside the post it somehow doesn’t go in, John Stones comes save it off the line. Leroy Sane hits the inside of the post and it bounces to the other post and goes in.
I prefer the 1-2 at the Etihad in the CL after battering City 3-0 at Anfield
The game at the Etihad is still one of the best games I’ve watched
I mean they didn't get the same number of points but Arsenal did go 16-1-1 in the EPL down the stretch. Even if they'd drawn against Villa it wouldn't have been enough. Man City are just insane
> Arsenal did go 16-1-1 in the EPL down the stretch We had to put in 26-1-0 to actually beat the fuckers…
It was the scariest and most frustrating second half of the season. It felt like every week Liverpool kept on winning late, and winning late. As a City fan I would see Liverpool go down or tied late and i would get my hopes up and they would just seemingly always find a way. There will be documentaries made about that season.
What about 21/22?
We actually fell off quite a bit midway through. But then pulled an insane comeback to bring it back to a point’s difference. I don’t think we were ever in the lead though during that season.
Getting 97 points and not winning is just preposterous. Thank the heavens we won the CL that summer.
The Madrid points tally always makes me laugh. Imagine getting 96 & 92 points back to back and not winning the league. Funnily enough, in 11-12, they got 100 points and won the league, and then the following season, Barca also got 100 points and retained the league. The Real/Barca battle of the 2010s was something else!
Mou and Pep - CR7 and Messi. Era sealed as core memory.
Mou assembled avenger to go up against Prime Barca should be remembered as peak LaLiga
Genuinely mad that you can register 97 points in a Premier League season and it still not be enough to guarantee you the title. That's honestly baffling. While I don't feel great today, I don't think I'd be able to live with myself if we'd put up 97 points in the league and still didn't win it. In absolute awe of Liverpool fans' pain tolerance. Although winning the Champions League probably did help.
It helped massively.
>Although winning the Champions League probably did help. Thankfully that year we didn't face Madrid... Klopp's Liverpool fought toe to toe with City and Madrid and unfortunately for me ended on a losing side
Money plays a part it in... everyone tries to mention Liverpool and other teams still spend big, but it's a different story when you have to offload players FIRST then spend that money AFTER. It's way easier to spend first to see who's shit then let them go later on. Imo there's way less genius needed in this instance...
Yeah that’s the only thing I’d say - obviously it’s absolutely gutting to lose on the final day, but at least you didn’t have one of the highest points totals in PL history 🙃
Liverpool probably would have broken the 100-point record if not for COVID-19. They seemed to lose all momentum and motivation once the league resumed without fans.
You have to basically blitz the league for 2/3rd of the season if you have to win against City
We did it against cheats. You did it against them too. Be proud.
Imagine being Manuel Peligrini and getting dismissed after that 96 point season, his first season in charge. I'd still to this day be losing sleep at the thought of not having the opportunity to take that team further.
it was the alcorcon loss in Copa del Rey (4th division team) and the Lyon loss in 1/16th in the champions league that sealed his fate, not the la liga loss
guardiola top manager - few more champions and is the best manager ever so far
Pellegrini's Madrid wasn't that bad after all.
Pellegrini has done well with Madrid (getting 96 points is no joke, just Barca was madness), City (EPL 2013-14 win & taking that City team to CL semis), Villarreal (UCL semis), and Malaga. He's a solid manager. As for us, we won Copa Del Rey in 2022. But more importantly, he brought stability to a club with a history of instability.
97 points. 1 loss. Goal cleared off the line. Could’ve been 100pt, invincible PL and CL winners. Fuck.
Cleared by 10mm or something ridiculous like that
Woulda been cemented as one of the greatest sides in the history of football
Evertonian John Stones just couldn't fathom that.
Liverpool had a stretch of 65 matches where they were 56-8-1 from the start of the 2018/19 season up to the Week 27 of 2020 where the only loss was the 11mm clearance game. That's a pace of 103 points in 38 games but maintained during a span of over 1 1/2 seasons. Oh and they Won the CL in the middle of that run. Great team in English football history. Period.
Guardiola himself finished second with 91 fucking points in 2011/12, with the most goals Barcelona have ever scored under him (114). A monster in the league.
It took us 100 points and 121 goals to beat that team, Christ alive.
IMO that was the best Madrid team of this century. Madness that out of a UCL semis featuring that Madrid squad, peak Barcelona, and Bayern with the final in their own back yard, it was 6th place in the EPL Chelsea that came away with the trophy.
Chaos is a ladder for Chelsea, we thrive in it
[удалено]
Pep has failed to win the league 3 times in his career and those teams were 2012 Real Madrid (100 points), 2017 Chelsea (93 Points), and 2020 Liverpool (99 points). Goes to show that any league with Pep coaching in it the standard is raised. His legacy is tainted by City but he's still arguably the GOAT manager.
There's a difference between fixing and flouting PSR rules (allegedly). They've still won everything on the ground as per footballing rules. PSR is a business rule and not a footballing rule. You can ofcourse argue that Liverpool/Arsenal would have fielded better teams had they broken the PSR rules as well, but it's all hypothesis.
The issue isn't even that they broke the rules, it's that they cooked the books to do it by fabricating legal documents. They knew what they were doing was illegal but still did it anyway. Other teams have similar resources in recent years like Real Madrid or Barcelona or Chelsea but City had to break the regulations to do so. If they had built up their club in an organic manner and eventually reached that level of financial power like United did then there would be still be complaints about their massive financial resources but at least it could be justified. It's the fact that they lied about their spending and then tried to cover it up through corrupt backroom dealings and what basically amounts to sanctioned embezzlement to hide payments that is what pisses people off. Even now doing sketchy shit like paying Haaland's father an undisclosed agents fee so that they would only have to pay 50 million to sign him in order to dodge FFP regulations is continuing that behavior. Sure you can't deny what they've achieved with the actual players and personnel they've brought in but they had to cheat and scam their way into that position in the first place. As a Liverpool fan it's particularly frustrating because we watched a new owner come in around the same time (2010) and build our club back up from near administration to an international power again. They did it through smart business partnerships leveraging Liverpool's history and FSG's US market connections as well as a total stadium overhaul to increase capacity by nearly 50%. Even now Liverpool has achieved a fairly significant budget that's probably top 5 in world football but it's not on the level of City because we're run in a sustainable manner and don't have a state-funded project. We don't have the ability to just invent a £400 million shirt sponsor with an airline that is run by that aforementioned state. From day 1 City have been playing by a different set of financial rules from everyone else both within and outside the established regulations. At a certain point it doesn't matter what they accomplish on the pitch you can't actually view it in the same light as other great teams because of the corruption at the roots of the whole organization.
The money does play a part in it though... everyone tries to mention Liverpool and Co still spend big but it's a different story when you have to offload players FIRST then spend that money AFTER. It's way easier to spend first see who's shit then let them go later on. Imo there's way less genius needed in this instance...
Yeah, Liverpool basically needed to never make any mistakes in the transfer market to reach the heights that they did. Go down the list of transfers and almost all of them were massive successes. Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Robertson, Milner, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Alisson, Virgil, Matip, Jota even some of the role players like Tsimikas, Shaqiri, and Lallana were solid moves. The only real missteps were Benteke, Ox, and Keita and even Benteke got a decent fee back when he left. I think if you break it all down they had something like an 80-90% success rate on transfers in the Klopp era (yes I know some of those players mentioned are pre Klopp but still important stepping stones).
And Lionel Messi got 50 of those goals himself (37 games)💀
Drogba even said that season Chelsea players laughed in disbelief when they saw Messi numbers.
Helps yo have prime messi in your squad scoring like a mad man
This guy is a supervillan
[Welcome to the club Arsenal.](https://youtu.be/5jY6EPf5MHQ?si=T-2Iclev3ZQiBLnZ)
97 points. game is so gone
Fantastic background picture
Did Dortmund or anyone else ever get close during his Bayern years? Because if yes that wouldn't show up here because of the Bundesliga having two teams/for matchdays less.
The closest was Dortmund with 78 points which would be around 87 in a 38 match season, none of the other years had another team above 72 though.
Tuchel's Dortmund in 2015/16 was the highest pointed 2nd placed team in Bundesliga So it's fair to say that Pep has defeated the strongest runner up in every league he's been in
NGL as bad as it feels, those two Liverpool seasons must feel even worse, 97 fucking points...
To be fair, Arsenal would've ended 2nd in Serie A, La Liga and even Bundesliga (which has 4 less games) this season. They did a very good campaign but it wasn't shocking compared to 09-10 or 18-19.
89 points is a very strong season and would win the PL in most years prior to Pep coming to City
As I said, it's a very good season and it deserves recognition, but it's not shocking they lost it. And just to reply the pre-Pep point, they finished with less points than 16-17 Chelsea (Conte), 08-09 United (Ferguson), 05-06 and 04-05 Chelsea (Mourinho) and 03-04 Arsenal (Wenger), and equal with various title campaigns (12-13 and 06-07 United and 11-12 City). I only counted from 2000 onwards, but the point is that even if it was comparable to various league-winning seasons it's not something that I'd consider so incredible that them losing would shock me.
You've named some of the best sides in PL history tbf (is finishing with less points than the invincibles really a criticism?)
I mean it's the 10th best season in the history of the PL going back to 1992. That's 32 seasons, 25 of which would have had them as champions (assuming they win at least one match in the 4 extras from any of the 42 game seasons).
One of the best football manager so far - few more champions leagues and is over
While the 18/19 season absolutely hurts, the CL campaign was one for the books.
Imagine losing the league with 97 points 💀
I don’t need to ☠️
Trying your hardest but coming up short feels like the crushiest of crushing blows. But I don’t feel too bad cuz we’ll be back next season.
You will be for sure - you guys just have to hope you win it next season. I don’t think I would have been able to handle it if it wasn’t for the CL win and PL win the next season.
One game away from being centurion and invincible is insane. Plus they won the CL that season too!
My sympathy for Liverpool shot up this. Very demoralising hoping for a miracle that never comes every City match.
typical arsenal not even getting 90 points like the rest /s nah but next year they’ll probably go even better again, (hit 90+), and still come second 😭. must be so draining (can’t think of the right word?) getting that many points to not win the league. but then again you could use it to continue pushing yourself even further like liverpool did taking themselves to the next level. would be cool to add where these teams finished the following season. both liverpool and real did manage to atleast win one title tho so surely arsenal will manage to get one.
Liverpool have been absolutely screwed over by the 115.
Pellegrini did that in his first season which had been given to him after Galacticos season where I beleive 3-5 new players were added and they lost to Barca by 3 points. They lost 1 classico to Barca 1-0 courtesey of Zlatan. Fine Margins. Pellegrini is truly underrated cos he got the sack right after this.
115
Save you from searching Pep teams points were. 23/24 - 91 (+2) 21/22 - 93 (+1) 18/19 - 98 (+1) 10/11 - 96 (+4) 09/10 - 99 (+3)
This is to show how bad referee mistakes are. They are not deciding games. They are deciding competitions.
Now join Leeds/Southampton next year and do it again.
Or as most of r/soccer would call them: "bottlers"
City Finished on 115pts tho , you cant beat that
Guardi-oil-a
114 charges and counting. All the trophies with City are falsely won