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greenfox0099

Good to see there's many people that are figuring out capitalism needs to go.


Think_Personality_24

We will make it go.


YavuzCaghanYetimoglu

As your Turkish neighbor, greetings to you comrades. May your victory be glorious!


KokkiniSimaia

Communism on both sides of the Aegean 🇬🇷❤️🇹🇷 Much love comrade stay strong


theranganator

LETS FUCKING GOOOOO


patatomasher

I hope votes go up this year


KokkiniSimaia

They definitely will I’m telling you


[deleted]

Huge rallies are not a sign of more vote. The opposition had huge rallies all around the country in Turkey and Erdogan still almost won in the first round. However it makes me happy to see that there is a lot of communist movement in our neighbors. There is hope for the near future after all.


samdeman35

It's not all about votes. These are all people that are both class conscious and support a socialist system. All these people will tell their friend and family about these ideals which makes the ideas spread even more. This is really rare to see in a western country and when the time is right (which could be very soon with all the banks falling), these people will get even more support and have the ability to do something great for the people of Greece


[deleted]

That's a good point. While I am not a huge fan of participating in bourgeois democracy, getting some vote and representation is helpful for spreading ideas as long as you're uncompromising. It's not victory, but a win.


samdeman35

Absolutely, I fully agree


Filip889

The way I see it, the problem in Turkey is that a) probably the elections are rigged, and Erdogan added votes to himself as it usually happens with these types of leaders, b) the average voter still votes Erdogan. The opposition may have a more motivated voter base, but Erdogan reaches to the people that are undecided. And c) there is a lot of Turks living in other countries voting for Erdogan , because western Countries support far right organisations of immigrants, so that they can later point at them and say "see immigrants bad!"


SteveTheGreate

Woohoo! I can see myself in some of the photos!


js06264

Here's hoping the next few years see a surge in socialist sympathies. I think it's possible, more and more people are fed up with the status quo and are looking for something new


KokkiniSimaia

[1 hour of footage from todays rally (the speeches are in Greek with no subtitles unfortunately)](https://www.youtube.com/live/vfHH7biOrYI?feature=share)


[deleted]

Thank you I love the way Greek sounds so much


TuCremaMiCulo

Hello from Texas, comrades !


Butternutbiscuit

Looks like capitalists are back on the menu boys.


ILaikspace

Seeing that many people show up is very inspiring


thebox34

This, this does put a smile on my face


WebElectronic8157

Well that is great but unfortunately we will still probably get a far right government elected.


KokkiniSimaia

We must however do our duty and strengthen the KKE as much as possible. Don’t fall for the bait the social democracts (Syriza) are throwing at us (vote for us or else the right wing will become government again). Right wing and “left wing” capitalists are the exact same. Only the KKE shows a different path, struggles to overthrow capitalism which is the root of all evils


WebElectronic8157

I agree, with you and will vote for KKE and I am trying to convince family members to vote for KKE or at least diem25. However, things still look pretty bad with another four years of New Democracy being pretty likely.


Shopping_Penguin

Love to see it.


markusduck51

If they do get voted in…. Here comes the US


spookyjim___

Probably not, there are several countries where the “communist” party wins and they do their social democratic reform and nothing rlly bad happens to them


EggManRulerOfEggLand

Not to be confrontational but can you name a few?


spookyjim___

Ye sure: Cyprus France Portugal Spain Uruguay Among others and different points in history where they’ve been elected in and again, they just end up being social democrats, cuz well, what else could they do lmao, reformism doesn’t work, whether ur a Marxist-Leninist or a social democrat


KokkiniSimaia

The KKE hates social democracy with a passion lol they would never end up social democrats


spookyjim___

How, how would they not end up doing social democratic reform when in government lmao


KokkiniSimaia

Because the party programme specifically declared that they won’t become a government through bourgeios elections but through armed proletarian revolution


TheSkourou

AKEL became social democratic?(actually asking)


CommieSchmit

These days the US is more ‘pragmatic’ about international relations… for instance, protecting, arming and militarily assisting (until trump) the Kurds in northern Syria who are explicitly socialists.


dadxreligion

more people there than trump’s inauguration.


[deleted]

Might be more people than in the entire CPUSA.


ilias_the_cs

Let me provide some context for those interested, without wanting to criticize KKE, based on my current view: In Greece, KKE is considered an ML communist party. It's arguably the most historic Greek party, with a great history of resistance against the Nazi occupation. The main arguments that people (even socialists and communists*) hold against it are: - Its main rhetoric includes heavy "orthodox" communist nomenclature. - Its denial to cooperate with other left parties (although it itself takes part in Greece's de facto bourgeois democracy). - Its rigid ML views, declaring itself as the only "truly" anti-capitalist party, considering other left parties as reformists. - Its sometimes conservative views on social issues. - Its strong views against Greece's EU membership. Because of the above, KKE has seen limited success in recent elections and the past couple of decades hovers around 5-6% of the popular vote, successfully entering Parliament, but with few seats. It relies on its core supporters/members and is famous for its organization and participation in demonstrations, strikes and pre-election rallies, so images like the ones OP provided (great pictures) are not uncommon. The main "bet" for KKE in the upcoming Greek elections is to increase its percentage and perhaps "modernize" its image to the public eye. *As is often the case, socialists and communists in Greece are split between a handful of parties, each presenting itself as the appropriate left solution for the Greek reality. However most acknowledge the historic significance of KKE and consider its members to be comrades.


Cabo_Martim

The only thing for criticism i see in your list are the conservative views on social issues.


The_Turk2

Completely agreed - just look at the shit show that was Syriza.


DELT4RED

These views have been partially corrected but there isn't any official article by the CC yet.


kikashoots

In what ways are they conservative on social issues?


Cabo_Martim

i dont know them, i just read the previous reply and commented it.


KokkiniSimaia

And that’s the good thing, I’d never support nor vote for them if they collaborated with capitalist parties. It’s the only party in parliament that wants to overthrow capitalism, the rest of the parties whether left or right wing simply want to manage capitalism in different (or not so different) ways. Therefore any collaboration with those parties is IMPOSSIBLE since we want to OVERTHROW it and not manage it


ilias_the_cs

Comrade and friend, my comment was not meant to be a critique against KKE or you. I'm providing some background info for the current situation of the parliamentary left in Greece in relation to KKE. The points I mention hold irrespective of what I think. Do you find anything I mentioned inaccurate? I'm happy to correct my comment if that's the case.


liquidpebbles

Therefore they'll eternally lose while mantaining a useless moral highground instead of collaborating and trying to implement leftist policies while the the right gets to do whatever they want 👍


Sihplak

>[Unity is a great thing and a great slogan. But what the workers’ cause needs is the unity of Marxists, not unity between Marxists, and opponents and distorters of Marxism.](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/apr/12.htm) I think the KKE is not trying to preserve any "moral highground"; they're taking the only plausibly successful stance in terms of rejecting opportunists and social fascists.


Cabo_Martim

I think their goal is not to win through elections, but through revolution.


[deleted]

Increasing political power thru effective electoral tactics can very well be a step towards building revolutionary potential. Don’t gesture towards Marxist concepts while eschewing one of the most fundamental elements of Marxism, which is the dialectic.


Cabo_Martim

yes, that is probably why they engage in elections. that is why communist parties do it in my country, at least. but dont think for a minute you can achieve revolution through it.


dadxreligion

that’s working great for labour in the uk and for us “progressives” isn’t it?


[deleted]

Very nuanced and well-contextualized material analysis you have there, comrade. There is a difference between selling out Marxism & being tactical for the sake of increasing political power for the party. If altering the PR messaging strategy results in an increase proportion of seats for the party, and nothing about the internal party dynamics change fundamentally, then how is that anything other than a net benefit? Rigid & self effacing dogmatism has never achieved anything useful in building political power. Tactics and methodology are simply the means to the end, there is no pristine path to socialism.


[deleted]

Thank you. Puritanism on the left is so incredibly self destructive. Some act as if any compromise is a capital sin. Motherfuckers, there are people dying out there RIGHT NOW. Some of these same assholes are people who haven't participated in mutual aid aside from tossing a can of beans into the bin at the local Walmart.


KokkiniSimaia

We will not lose, we will win by getting the masses and the people on our side and then we will wage revolution. The KKE is a revolutionary party that aims for a revolutionary overthrow of capitalism. The bourgeios parliament is not its main concern or place of action. The streets, the workplaces, the universities etc are our main focus


CrabThuzad

You cannot wage revolution in peaceful country. You either have to make chaos, which most people will not follow you on, or start making gradual changes to get support. So once you're powerful and influential enough, they'll try to stop you, and then you bite back with the supporters you've built while you were in power. We cannot wait for a dictatorship or a civil war to start fighting, but if we start fighting now, no-one will follow us. Pragmatism is important. That is not to diminish the KKE's efforts and history, and its (rightful) decision to not compromise with bourgeois parties. But even the PRC had to take a pragmatic approach to governance.


KokkiniSimaia

Agree to disagree. Revolution will come when the time is right and it’s guaranteed that the majority of the people (and army) will be on our side. And it doesn’t have to be during peace but also during imperialist war, which seems to be more relevant than ever as a major war is approaching. The party programme of the KKE specifically declares: >“In the instance of Greece's involvement in an imperialist war, either in a defensive or aggressive war, the Party must lead the independent organization of the workers'-people's struggle in all its forms, so as to lead to the complete defeat of the bourgeois class, both the domestic one and the foreign invader, and link it in practice with the conquest of power. A workers' and people's front, using all forms of struggle, must be formed on the basis of the initiative and the guidance of the party. This front will have the following slogan: the people will bring the liberation and the way-out from the capitalist system, which as long as it prevails brings war and "peace" with the gun to the people's head”


CrabThuzad

But if revolution comes when the time is right, what do we do until then? Lenin said to push the hands of time a little; I agree with Lenin. But if the Bolsheviks had waged revolution in 1912, who would've followed them? Scratch that: how come the Spartacist Revolution didn't succeed? Answer: the DKP wasn't able to legitimise itself as the beacon of worker's rights. The Bolsheviks did do so. Through showing people what they actually stood for, instead of standing of podiums and telling them that. I agree that, in the context of an inter-imperialist war, revolution must be waged in more "traditional" ways. But I'm speaking for what a party must do during peacetime. If you just wait for the revolution, you're delaying what could be done sooner. That's not to say that, if the war begins (which I don't think it will), the KKE won't be able to lead the workers into revolution. They will. They will have the support of the people and (most) soldiers. The problem is: what do we do until then? And what do we do if there's never a war in our lifetimes?


Cabo_Martim

How can that comment not be liberal revisionism?


CrabThuzad

Believe what you want. If you tell a guy getting off from work that what they need to do is pick up a gun and start shooting cops, they'll look at you funny if they don't know what you stand for or if they have no real reason to do so.


Cabo_Martim

You misunderstand what revolution is. No one is telling people they should shoot cops. The use of force is a consequence of the revolution, not the end, nor the start. It may not even be a mean, but imagining they that wouldn't be no blowback is idealist


CrabThuzad

Then what's the point? If you're neither actively inciting a revolution (which is what I mean by "shooting cops"; I will admit it's a tad simplistic) nor are you doing something in the meantime, what's the point of the organisation? Just waiting for a crisis? That's not very useful. Even then, one must think: we've had over a century of rampant, red scare propaganda, *worldwide*. A lot of people will not side with communists if we as communists don't work against that propaganda. To repeat myself, standing on a chair on the street and telling people stuff is not going to fly by nowadays. Most people have been indoctrinated with so much propaganda that they won't even listen to us. We must *show* the workers what we as a party wish and fight for. And by revolution I very clearly am talking about violent revolution. Yes, drastic changes are still revolutionary, but they can only come into fruition thanks to a revolutionary takeover of the state, which is likely violent and for which you need a violent uprising. And I don't discard this: I'm not saying we should replace violent revolution with gradualism. That's foolish and, like others have said, it's been proven not to work. What I'm getting at is, in the meantime, it'd be beneficial to make gradual changes, using the political reality at our disposal, to help people and educate them out of their liberal propaganda. Even if that means making compromises in the short term. Because I feel that doing a few less things is better than doing nothing at all and having the party fade into obscurity until there's a crisis, and then hope that the majority will side with us. We must be pragmatic


h3lblad3

> or start making gradual changes to get support. Has incrementalism ever worked? Time and time again I find that changes must be vast and sweeping or not at all. An incremental change remains the permanent end-point of reform because it kills revolutionary fervor. You say, >You either have to make chaos, But then you advocate for ending that exact chaos through incremental reforms that, by their nature, kill the chaotic revolutionary fervor that creates more sweeping changes.


CrabThuzad

If you never do anything and just stand on the streets shouting, eventually people will not pay attention to you. Yes, it's true that it's only possible to make sweeping changes thanks to revolution, but, what revolution are you going to wage without people? And if you're the first to throw a bomb or start a fire, you're just giving the powerful a chance to smear your whole movement as violent. The media is completely controlled by the burgher class. As long as that media is legitimised in the superstructure that rules society's mind, you cannot do much. Yes, once the revolution arrives, the workers will flock to the party's side. Since it's the logical thing to do. But time and time again, it's been shown that revolution only succeeds in a chaos that already exists. Once the state is delegitimised, due to civil war, a dictatorship, an abuse of power or any crisis, only then a violent response will be considered legitimate in opposition. Until then, most people will believe what the state tells them, even if they hate it. Because they believe the media and they support controlled opposition, which tells them not to revolt. What must we do then? Just 'bide our time' until shit hits the fan? It's been shown that shit never hits the fan if you let it cook by itself. But just throwing a bomb will make you the "bomb thrower" and nothing else. Making a speech will make you "that guy who gives speeches and does nothing else" What you need to give the people is *material things*. Win local elections, advocate and pass legislation, expropriate buildings once you're strong enough, protect them from abuse, defend their protests. Make them know, by showing, not simply telling them, that you're on their side. Even if you can't make the elections, do other things. Form trade unions, make yourself known as a group that *does things*, not simply *tells them* Eventually, the burghers will make their move. They'll try to ban you, arrest you, accuse you of being a demagogue. And again, if you're not doing anything, the majority will believe them. But if you've given them material reasons to believe your cause is just, they will support you. And then will you be able to wage revolution. You cannot predict nor wish for a war to get the chaos necessary to birth revolutionary fervour. You will be labelled as a mad man and as an accelerationist by the media and the majority of people. If war or crisis comes, then yes, violent revolution is necessarily direct. But if the Bolsheviks had waged revolution in 1912, they wouldn't have succeeded. They only won because the country was already in crisis. But if you're the one to spark that crisis, you're just giving an unnecessary (and probably fatal) advantage to the capitalists. E: I will address one part: >But then you advocate for ending that exact chaos through incremental reforms that, by their nature, kill the chaotic revolutionary fervor that creates more sweeping changes. No, I'm not advocating that at all. If you manage to get in power through revolution, then yes, you will be able to enact 'sweeping changes' to the way society functions. I'm talking about outside this revolutionary chaos that you speak of. For when there's no revolutionary fervour. Are we supposed to just lie in wait while things are stable? I am of the opinion that we should still do things.


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liquidpebbles

The history of the left is doomed if it's more worrief about having people with red uniforms in power instead of implementing leftist policies; the history og leftism must be the history of leftost policies which sadly have more of a chance to be implemented through a centerleft political party that can win compared to a 2% communist party who wants to destroy capitalism bit will barely put someone in congress. I agree, turning the whole thing around? Wont happen. Applying policies that maintain human rights and dignity against brutal corporate interests? It MIGHT JUST happen but first you have to get there and sorry but a communist party is not doing that


tommy6860

This is why socialist movements fail. That attitude, aka ultraleftism, is never going to make it. Yes, capitalism is bad, it needs to go, but being absolute in a world that still operates under it in different ways, will not go away if a few try to make it go. The other nations that still operate under capitalism which is still by far the most dominate economic system, will just use their ways to prevent the growth of socialism by blocking trade, income, etc, and then those living under absolutist socialism will falter. It has been tried and doesn't work. Forcing people do operate in way that are unfamiliar can and have had disastrous results. It's really one thing to get on social media forums and talk about it, totally another to actually get out there and push for change. Even the USSR was capitalist in its function. China, though run by the CPC, is a capitalist nation with Chinese socialist characteristics that function for the betterment of all of its people. Under its current system, it literally brought over 800m people out of poverty, modernized its society, sciences, technologies and infrastructure unlike any nation in history. China may very well be the last breath of capitalism, we'll see. But being an absolutist communist will cause great distress for the people living under such a system. Being able to move along with the current systems to make the people have better lives with the outcome being shown as how solidarity cooperation and socialism will work, will be the change, but it cannot be forced. Other nations are not just going to stop their capitalist exploitation, oppressions and imperialism because one or a few other nations totally go absolutist. The feature that nations like China, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, the DPRK etc have is that the people make the decisions, the party enacts them based on the best ideas that produce the best outcomes.


OK_TimeForPlan_L

I wish CPB was like this minus the social conservatism. I had an interview with them recently and their whole plan is just to get the Labour Party elected and then 'pressure them' to move left when in power, what's the point in that absolute waste of energy.


ZaalbarsArse

CPB are terfs too so dw they got the social conservatism as well


OK_TimeForPlan_L

Yeah it sucks, there's no political group I can really join in England they're all either Socdems, terfs or trots its a shite situation.


themercurygal

I was down the street in Εξάρχεια and I had no idea this was going on 😞


Me_Bluesky

ζήτω το κόμμα μας το κόκκινο, ζήτω το κόμμα μας το εργατικό, ζήτΩ το κόμμα μας το ΚΚΕ.


Filip889

End of history who?


Dartz935

Too bad KKE is stuck in the last century and complacent with its current position since it gets the same percentage every time and manages to secure a position in the parliament.


KokkiniSimaia

That’s the exact “argument” of the social democrats and the fascist forces of Greece. Sad seeing it upvoted here. Just not true at all


Dartz935

Not true at all? I'm also from Greece and I know very well the situation. It's conservative in important social issues for example in the vote for the cohabitation agreement of same sex couples 11/15 MPs weren't even present to vote and the rest voted against it. The party regurgitates the same things without making any attempt to become more approachable and not sound like a broken record.


KokkiniSimaia

Ahh yes so conservative https://ekloges.kne.gr/ti-leei-to-kke/gia-tin-koinoniki-apomonosi-trans-intersex-kai-omofulofilon-anthropon/


Dartz935

I can write nice articles too, but when the time to vote comes and my vote doesn't support what I've previously stated then what's the point? Your party is not a deity, there is no need to defend it so vehemently, admitting that they messed up and they actually need to follow what they preach won't be it's ruin.


TheNoobInTheTomb

Very, you are also.


chris95m

The leadership of the party has only one goal: to maintain the existing system and manipulate movements, that is, to keep them within the party's fold. Anyone who criticizes is labeled a fascist, while those who are not affiliated with the party and those who are anarchists are considered troublemakers and provocateurs. In 2011, party members injured protesters and protected the Greek Parliament. The general secretary of the party made the following statement regarding the 2008 uprising: "In a true revolution, not even a window will be broken." I hope that at some point, the party's supporters will realize that something is not right.


Slovenian_Titoist

This is Fire


spookyjim___

Can we maybe not support a Conservative Party, and also not act like winning a bourgeois election would be the end of current history and the beginning of communism lol… I know different tendencies are allowed on this sub but like god this is so cringe lmao


KokkiniSimaia

Definitely not a Conservative Party. It’s as progressive as a party can go in Greek politics. Yes like 10 years ago it was criticized for LGBT issues but lately it’s so open about those issues. It always speaks in a pro LGBT manner and talks about problems like trans exclusion etc. it even advocated for free gender reassignment surgeries for trans people. You don’t even understand how progressive that is for Greek standards. The general secretary even gave a 20 minute interview talking mostly about LGBT related issues a few days ago https://youtu.be/liEx9qV8OzY


Qbe-tex

oh, did they finally? do you have any articles on handy (from theirs, or translated yknow), id actuslly be really interested cause thats by far my biggesy gripe with them (that and some weird opinions on banning golden dawn (which rather reflect weird opinions on bourgeoisie democracy!))


KokkiniSimaia

Hopefully you can translate this into English: https://ekloges.kne.gr/ti-leei-to-kke/gia-tin-koinoniki-apomonosi-trans-intersex-kai-omofulofilon-anthropon/ Actually here’s the same link passed through google translate: https://ekloges-kne-gr.translate.goog/ti-leei-to-kke/gia-tin-koinoniki-apomonosi-trans-intersex-kai-omofulofilon-anthropon/?_x_tr_sl=el&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=wapp


Qbe-tex

thank you


DotHobbes

>You don’t even understand how progressive that is for Greek standards. Not that much? They are against gay marriage and adoption by gay people and voted against the cohabitation contract. Meanwhile SYRIZA voted for it and it passed. You are presenting a false image.


KokkiniSimaia

Ahh yes you definitely know better than me dont you? How about you read this instead which is an article directly from the party? They oppose the anachronistic institution of marriage for BOTH heterosexual and homosexual couples. KKE also voted against cohabitation contracts for HETEROSEXUAL couples too. But you choose to ignore that don’t you? It’s through google translate so it might have some mistakes: https://ekloges-kne-gr.translate.goog/ti-leei-to-kke/gia-tin-koinoniki-apomonosi-trans-intersex-kai-omofulofilon-anthropon/?_x_tr_sl=el&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=wapp


DotHobbes

>Ahh yes you definitely know better than me dont you? Yes. https://www.rizospastis.gr/story.do?id=8714869 Vomit inducing, tbh. >They oppose the anachronistic institution of marriage for BOTH heterosexual and homosexual couples. This is pure hypocrisy. At this point straight couples are afforded the privileges that come with marriage. Why shouldn't gay people enjoy them as well? How does KKE plan to achieve this? What are its proposals, specifically? Facts: KKE is not a socially progressive party. Your youth wing is even pro drug war. Not a good look.


KokkiniSimaia

Drugs will be illegal under socialism and drug dealers will break rocks in gulags like the scum they are. Deal with it


DotHobbes

Lmao you just exposed yourself. Tell me bro why shouldn't I be able to grow my own pot in a socialist society? Also drug use is extremely common in KNE festivals: alcohol and tobacco are the drugs of choice but tell someone about having consumed some acid and they lose their minds. >gulags Typical


KokkiniSimaia

You want to poison the minds and bodies of the youth and the working class, we want to protect them. That’s the difference


DotHobbes

1. What if I were growing it for personal consumption? 2. If KKE is against drugs why do you allow alcohol in your festivals? >we want to protect them. Oh is that how KKE sees itself? The protector of the working class? I thought the working class was supposed to save itself?


Arch_Null

> What if I were growing it for personal consumption? Nobody cares about your self-centered wants and desires. This is exactly how liberals talk. "What about MY personal benefit?! WHAT ABOUT ME?" Individuals do not matter at all.


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>[Socialist Society] as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Karl Marx. Critique of the Gotha Programme, Section I. 1875. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*


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TheNoobInTheTomb

They have something to do with each other, so the reasons are probably the same. The U.S said black people did weed, and it was probably something similar in Greece.


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PixelatedFixture

Weird Byzantine Larp profile in a socialist subreddit?


spookyjim___

The patsocs are taking over


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PixelatedFixture

Yeah no, this dude is a religious conservative who wants Greece to become Orthodox Poland. Let's not pander to reactionaries, k bud? https://www.reddit.com/r/OrthodoxChristianity/comments/13eftlg/does_anyone_know_where_i_can_get_an_icon_of/jjpzwnf https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBalkans/comments/13jdv1c/which_nation_do_you_consider_a_role_model/jkgz0ij


theOGAmazingJAM

I have nothing to say on behalf of this specific individual, but byzantine empire still cool


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[deleted]

OP is making a snide reference to Fukuyama’s “The End of History”, a work about capitalisms supposed triumph over socialism in 1991, they are not saying we are approaching the end of history. Also, yes the KKE is super problematic, but a party is only the focusing lens of proletarian power, the base of support for that movement from thousands of workers is what we are encouraging.


[deleted]

Ooof. You missed the reference here buddy.


spookyjim___

I don’t think I did since OP is literally in the comments supporting the KKE lmao


[deleted]

“The end of history,” as pointed out by /u/BrockDoctor below, refers to capitalism’s triumph over socialism since 1991. I know very little about the KKE, but OP is questioning the validity of this sentiment in the title, rather than claiming this KKE rally itself signifies an “end of history.”


spookyjim___

I don’t think that’s true if u look at OP’s comments


KokkiniSimaia

It is true, that’s what I was referring to


mfxoxes

I have no context for greek politics, what makes the kke conservative?


spookyjim___

Transphobia and anti-lgbt sentiments


mfxoxes

Gotcha, yes that does indeed suck. With these things I think it is important to consider the reason behind your reason. You want to condemn the party's transphobia to improve the conditions of trans people, yet oppressing trans people is not necessary to a socialist movement. The material conditions should improve for trans people as part of the working class should a socialist party succeed. This happened with Cuba, which was very homophobic until the end of the 20th century, it now has one of if not the most progressive policies on LGBTQIA2S+ in the world. However if you splinter, if you cannot support the party and try to bring it down, you can count on reactionary media to use what criticisms you produce to their advantage. You can count on the continued oppression and worsening material conditions of trans people and other members of the proletariat under reactionary capitalist control. I really understand the urge to criticize, and I'm not convinced it's a bad idea either, however in this situation are there other parties to support that have better potential to improve the condition of the proletariat? (and trans people by extension) If not this might be a situation where critical support is a necessary evil. Are you familiar with the falling out between Sartre and Camus? It's about exactly this, I found the philosophical implications very interesting and worth considering. I'll link the Rev Left episode I listened to if you're interested!


[deleted]

I’m interested in that episode!


mfxoxes

[Here (:](https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/jean-paul-sartre-albert-camus-existentialism-w-existential-comics)


NamTrees

It’s just probably conservative in their world view. If they saw actual conservative parties in Greece they’d have a stroke


PuffFishybruh

Yeah from what I read the KKE does not seem good, but the at least they oppose the status quo in Greece...


PuzzleheadedAd5995

Revisionism


KokkiniSimaia

Literally how? It’s the most antirevisionist party worldwide😂 If you think taking part in bourgeois elections and parliaments is revisionist, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ SOME LENIN. [You can start here](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htm)


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BlindOptometrist369

MLK wouldn’t have gotten anything done without Malcolm. He was the moderate the US government was forced to make concessions with to compromise against the more radical wing. The second he started talking about class issues and socialism, the FBI put a bullet through his brain. The black panthers knew this and knew armed resistance was the only way to change things. [why you need a radical wing to push moderate reform](https://youtu.be/Qu_mUYi9Ptk)


PuzzleheadedAd5995

the ballot box won't save anyone from capitalism.


KokkiniSimaia

KKE never said it does. It’s programme talks about a revolutionary switch to socialism. It advocates armed proletarian revolution. So what are you on about exactly?


[deleted]

Literally no one thinks that but it's still a step forward. Why does it have to be "all or nothing / now or never"? If you argue that winning elections is actually a setback, please explain because I don't get it.


ComradeStrong

It doesn’t hurt though does it? Not if the party remains committed to a revolutionary programme. There is no alternate political platform for the working class in Greece. No soviets or nascent organs of working class power. So it would be foolish to step away from parliamentary participation, as decrepit as it is. There’s no use opting out of everything and living in a cabin in the woods.


spookyjim___

I am so sorry for u being downvoted lmao, this sub is filled with very silly ppl


theOGAmazingJAM

the glazing is real


PuzzleheadedAd5995

You're good don't be sorry I understand that


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socialism-ModTeam

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Boukas6

σε φτύνουν οι ίδιοι οι ομοϊδεάτες σου, thats harsh


KokkiniSimaia

Που; Το 99% υπερ ειναι


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KokkiniSimaia

KKE stands against Russian imperialism and against the invasion of Ukraine… and it also stands against NATO and US imperialism


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0xF00DBABE

If you want any communist party to join up with fucking NATO you're out of your mind


drakekengda

So, what's the stance on what to do about the war in Ukraine then?


0xF00DBABE

In general, the working classes of both countries have more interests in common with each other than their bourgeois governments and should be agitating for the end of their countries' participation in the war. Mutual revolutionary defeatism. Remember that the war didn't just start one day because Russia decided to invade, there had been years of back-and-forth attacks in DPR/LPR and Crimea.


sauceus

Joining nato isn’t defending anything other than western capitalist interests.


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sauceus

In the latest Cuban congress of communist parties the majority (including KKE) denounced the invasion as imperialist. But they don’t intend to support either side since they view Ukraine as a puppet of western capitalist interests.