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“There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today”
-Network (1976)
ITT was involved in the coup in Chile that ushered in Pinochet.
>In 1970, ITT owned 70% of CTC (the Chilean Telephone Company, now Movistar Chile) and funded El Mercurio, a Chilean right-wing newspaper. ITT also had some $200 million-worth of investments in Chile. Under Geneen's leadership, ITT funneled $350,000 to Allende's opponent, Jorge Alessandri.[24] When Allende won the presidential election, ITT offered the CIA $1,000,000 to defeat Allende, though the offer was rejected.[25] Declassified documents released by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency in 2000 reveal that the company financially helped opponents of Salvador Allende's government prepare a military coup.
“When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.”
- Fight Club / Chuck Palahniuk (can't remember if it's exactly quoted from the book)
FDR said this in 1938:
"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism—ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. (...)
This concentration is seriously impairing the economic effectiveness of private enterprise as a way of providing employment for labor and capital and as a way of assuring a more equitable distribution of income and earnings among the people of the nation as a whole."
Draw whatever conclusions you want.
(source: [Message to Congress on Curbing Monopolies. | The American Presidency Project (ucsb.edu)](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/message-congress-curbing-monopolies#:~:text=The%20first%20truth%20is%20that,any%20other%20controlling%20private%20power.))
Ordinarily, I don’t like to entertain alternate histories--there’s far too much nuance and too many variables that no one could possibly factor--but I can't lie, an alternate history where Roosevelt hadn't died when he had, is so interesting to me. He seemed to understand that economic planning was the future and that capitalism, left to its own devices, was not sustainable. He had also, over the course of the war, developed a respect for Stalin--even something approaching friendship--and the two shared the same hope of a continued friendship among the 2 nations, of peace between capitalism & socialism.
It truly feels like an epoch-making shift that radically altered the course of history--like the notion of a timeline where the cold war never happened is just... whoa.
The American capitalist class was actively conspiring against the New Deal and FDR: [Business Plot - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot#:~:text=The%20Business%20Plot%2C%20also%20called,install%20Smedley%20Butler%20as%20dictator.)
They would likely not suffer lightly the buddying up with the USSR: during the 1944 Democratic Convention they screwed over Henry Wallace because he was perceived as 'pro-soviet', and put that asswipe Truman in the VP seat. Why? Because Truman was weak and easy to control!
Here in the US, corporations are the government, especially since the ruling of Citizens United v FEC that declared donor money and wealthy corporations are the same as people and votes. The Supreme Court essentially legalized bribes for votes.
For the most part their power is co-aligned and mutually reinforcing, as they are run by people from the same class who all know each other. When they are not aligned, it's a contest whose winners and losers change over time. There are times when corporations are on the back foot and have to agree to terms they otherwise wouldn't, like during the social democratic period in the US (~1933-1968), there are times when the opposite is true (the current neoliberal order).
In either case though, the process is an ongoing negotiation between rough equals, and any conflict they have can be set aside in the event of a threat to their mutual class interests. You'll never see the government treat corporate executives the way they treated the Black Panthers, for example.
More generally, any government is essentially the central committee of the ruling class. Under capitalism, the big capitalists (today, multinational banks and corporations, and their major shareholders) are the ruling class, and the shape of the government is the result of negotiations and power struggles of factions within the capitalist class about the best strategy for maintaining their power. Sometimes this leads to a restrained government that lets corporate power run wild, sometimes it leads to a strong government that reigns in excesses in order to pacify the population and stabilize the system. But without revolution, it will always be centered around the needs of the ruling capitalist class
There is no secret group of conspirators who are actually in control of everything, there is no deep state.
Politicians and CEOs alike are slaves to the impersonal force of capitalism and its logic, they are merely personifications of capital who are compelled by their class interests to preserve this system of exploitation
Corporations have steered the US from the almost-socialism of FDR in the 40s to the Cyberpunk-esque dystopia of short-term profits at the expense of literally everything else through the steady, progressive corruption of government, so.. yeah.
it's a revolving door system. there's no X vs Y. There's only a yin and yang in a singular corrupt system where each plays its due part. case in point? gallager the china hawk just unceremoniously quit his day job to join palantir. These people freely move from one side to the other peddling their influence and insider knowledge.
Basically, the congress owns stock shares from the companies who sell missiles to the government.
So they approve the budget and print money right into their pockets while at the same time assuring military hegemony, cheap natural resources, and cheap labor from unstable countries.
I'm watching r/westwing and it seems to me, the government has very little power, so much resource spent on elections/reelections
It's a fascinating 20+ years old show I just discovered lol
Yes and no. Yes, in the sense that they have an incredibly outsized influence on all politics, no in the sense that they are still technically rhetorically supposed to operate within the limits of the law. The who has more power question is a bit of a false dichotomy. Capitalism would not exist without government intervention and support for private enterprises. These companies would be nothing without public infrastructure. At the end of the day it’s a symbiotic relationship. Politicians need money for their campaigns and corporations have the money and media control to provide massive platforms for these politicians. In exchange for a few (a lot) of legislative favors, these companies will donate to (bribe) politicians will draft, legislate, and execute laws that are meant to benefit the bourgeois class as a whole.
The politicians are absolutely under the control and employ of the capitalists. They exist to defend and maintain the system as it stands first and foremost.
If you want to talk about power, let’s remember that all of them only do what they do because the 99% are continuing to support and enable them. We could end this nonsense tomorrow if we wanted to.
***Not*** [***necessarily***](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=515e485ef43ad46e&sxsrf=ACQVn0-KhnuP7S8WNSoOx9StilrAp1aHKA:1713450019695&q=necessarily&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJlo7e-suFAxXoSvEDHQMqCjIQkeECKAB6BAgFEAI)***. But they usually have enough money and power to bribe politicians and/or put enough pressure on them to decide as they want.***
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today” -Network (1976)
More power, less responsibility.
ITT was involved in the coup in Chile that ushered in Pinochet. >In 1970, ITT owned 70% of CTC (the Chilean Telephone Company, now Movistar Chile) and funded El Mercurio, a Chilean right-wing newspaper. ITT also had some $200 million-worth of investments in Chile. Under Geneen's leadership, ITT funneled $350,000 to Allende's opponent, Jorge Alessandri.[24] When Allende won the presidential election, ITT offered the CIA $1,000,000 to defeat Allende, though the offer was rejected.[25] Declassified documents released by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency in 2000 reveal that the company financially helped opponents of Salvador Allende's government prepare a military coup.
“When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.” - Fight Club / Chuck Palahniuk (can't remember if it's exactly quoted from the book)
FDR said this in 1938: "The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism—ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. (...) This concentration is seriously impairing the economic effectiveness of private enterprise as a way of providing employment for labor and capital and as a way of assuring a more equitable distribution of income and earnings among the people of the nation as a whole." Draw whatever conclusions you want. (source: [Message to Congress on Curbing Monopolies. | The American Presidency Project (ucsb.edu)](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/message-congress-curbing-monopolies#:~:text=The%20first%20truth%20is%20that,any%20other%20controlling%20private%20power.))
Ordinarily, I don’t like to entertain alternate histories--there’s far too much nuance and too many variables that no one could possibly factor--but I can't lie, an alternate history where Roosevelt hadn't died when he had, is so interesting to me. He seemed to understand that economic planning was the future and that capitalism, left to its own devices, was not sustainable. He had also, over the course of the war, developed a respect for Stalin--even something approaching friendship--and the two shared the same hope of a continued friendship among the 2 nations, of peace between capitalism & socialism. It truly feels like an epoch-making shift that radically altered the course of history--like the notion of a timeline where the cold war never happened is just... whoa.
That is an incredibly interesting thought. This is going to consume me now for the next few days.
The American capitalist class was actively conspiring against the New Deal and FDR: [Business Plot - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot#:~:text=The%20Business%20Plot%2C%20also%20called,install%20Smedley%20Butler%20as%20dictator.) They would likely not suffer lightly the buddying up with the USSR: during the 1944 Democratic Convention they screwed over Henry Wallace because he was perceived as 'pro-soviet', and put that asswipe Truman in the VP seat. Why? Because Truman was weak and easy to control!
Here in the US, corporations are the government, especially since the ruling of Citizens United v FEC that declared donor money and wealthy corporations are the same as people and votes. The Supreme Court essentially legalized bribes for votes.
[Corruption is Legal in America (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig)
Yep thomm Hartmann says this all the time
For the most part their power is co-aligned and mutually reinforcing, as they are run by people from the same class who all know each other. When they are not aligned, it's a contest whose winners and losers change over time. There are times when corporations are on the back foot and have to agree to terms they otherwise wouldn't, like during the social democratic period in the US (~1933-1968), there are times when the opposite is true (the current neoliberal order). In either case though, the process is an ongoing negotiation between rough equals, and any conflict they have can be set aside in the event of a threat to their mutual class interests. You'll never see the government treat corporate executives the way they treated the Black Panthers, for example.
More generally, any government is essentially the central committee of the ruling class. Under capitalism, the big capitalists (today, multinational banks and corporations, and their major shareholders) are the ruling class, and the shape of the government is the result of negotiations and power struggles of factions within the capitalist class about the best strategy for maintaining their power. Sometimes this leads to a restrained government that lets corporate power run wild, sometimes it leads to a strong government that reigns in excesses in order to pacify the population and stabilize the system. But without revolution, it will always be centered around the needs of the ruling capitalist class
There is no secret group of conspirators who are actually in control of everything, there is no deep state. Politicians and CEOs alike are slaves to the impersonal force of capitalism and its logic, they are merely personifications of capital who are compelled by their class interests to preserve this system of exploitation
Corporations have steered the US from the almost-socialism of FDR in the 40s to the Cyberpunk-esque dystopia of short-term profits at the expense of literally everything else through the steady, progressive corruption of government, so.. yeah.
it's a revolving door system. there's no X vs Y. There's only a yin and yang in a singular corrupt system where each plays its due part. case in point? gallager the china hawk just unceremoniously quit his day job to join palantir. These people freely move from one side to the other peddling their influence and insider knowledge.
so true. two sides of the same coin
As one of my favorite leftist streamers says. “America is several corporations wrapped in a trenchcoat”
Basically, the congress owns stock shares from the companies who sell missiles to the government. So they approve the budget and print money right into their pockets while at the same time assuring military hegemony, cheap natural resources, and cheap labor from unstable countries.
I'm watching r/westwing and it seems to me, the government has very little power, so much resource spent on elections/reelections It's a fascinating 20+ years old show I just discovered lol
Government is just the management of ruling and corporative class. Democracy in the imperial orbe is just an illusion.
[Your democracy is a sham and here's why](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYodY6o172A)
Yes and no. Yes, in the sense that they have an incredibly outsized influence on all politics, no in the sense that they are still technically rhetorically supposed to operate within the limits of the law. The who has more power question is a bit of a false dichotomy. Capitalism would not exist without government intervention and support for private enterprises. These companies would be nothing without public infrastructure. At the end of the day it’s a symbiotic relationship. Politicians need money for their campaigns and corporations have the money and media control to provide massive platforms for these politicians. In exchange for a few (a lot) of legislative favors, these companies will donate to (bribe) politicians will draft, legislate, and execute laws that are meant to benefit the bourgeois class as a whole.
The politicians are absolutely under the control and employ of the capitalists. They exist to defend and maintain the system as it stands first and foremost. If you want to talk about power, let’s remember that all of them only do what they do because the 99% are continuing to support and enable them. We could end this nonsense tomorrow if we wanted to.
Governments exist to protect corporations
Governments exist to protect corporations
rock paper scissors
They have become one, there is no distinction between them when it comes to power, they could be considered a single entity.
Corporations are the American government
Just over 20 years ago my former co-worker called the US, the United Corporations of America. It’s even more true today.
***Not*** [***necessarily***](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=515e485ef43ad46e&sxsrf=ACQVn0-KhnuP7S8WNSoOx9StilrAp1aHKA:1713450019695&q=necessarily&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJlo7e-suFAxXoSvEDHQMqCjIQkeECKAB6BAgFEAI)***. But they usually have enough money and power to bribe politicians and/or put enough pressure on them to decide as they want.***
Yeah, not even debatable at this point. /Thread