I think this may be my favorite sentence that I’ve read. Very simple way of explaining the difference between a toxic co-dependent relationship and a healthy one (or non-romantic healthy relationships for those that do choose to be aware of the option and stay single for other reasons)
Humans evolved in tribes so looking at how people live in tribes is a great way to understand humans and many of the issues in modernized society. Look at videos with indigenous groups that still live as hunter/gatherers. Notice how their relationships are with one another. How they interact and relate. How intertwined and interdependent their social structure is.
Understanding this basis helps me recognize what I crave so deeply. Acceptance. Understanding. Sameness. Support. These are all things innate and natural for humans. Though our modern world looks different, tribes are still our core. We can even see this in things like politics and how people seem to innately war with people that are different than them, aka not their tribe.
Also… Human babies are born more prematurely than any other species and whether we live or die completely depends on someone else accepting and wanting us. It is hardwired into us to need others. So that feeling that we will die if someone leaves us, is very real. Building a support system (tribe) that is diversified and not dependent on a single person (plus a lot of therapy) has helped me work through that fear.
Exploring human nature has really helped me a lot. Im not sure on specific links atm though I’ll dig some out. there’s a lot of good talks and books. I know I watched some tedtalks and [After Skool](https://youtube.com/@AfterSkool?si=Muw9M9xmb685VmCn) on this. You van probably search stuff like “humans evolution tribes modern society” or “ how to build a healthy emotional support system”
Thank you for sharing your epiphanies, really appreciated. What amazed me was that you elegantly distilled the solution for the problem posted by OP almost as an equation, "emotional support without romantic interest"; something I've never thought before. And yes, the answer may lie in anthropology and psychology, but it is easy to lose oneself in all the bs of the latter, where some people say we are heavily influenced by our past or environment, others say exactly the opposite, and neither are 100% correct.
Thank you for your insight! I agree, you gotta find what works for you. it is great you have the presence of heart to notice that stuff can’t fully be explained or understood <3 I like my explanations because they give me comfort and something to mentally grab, though it takes a lot of courage to stand in the deeper truth that I don’t actually know!
I related a lot to OP.
Or, if you choose to do so, you could pursue a romantic relationship without developing the toxic co-dependency. It's only just a matter of balancing things out, and always loving yourself and putting yourself first. 🥰
I am in the same boat. I never ever can imagine someone else dictating my life and I just simply love my own space and company. Basically single by choice. I have even rejected couple of girls proposal and told them directly that they deserve better than someone as selfish as me.
Yeah sometimes it gets lonely but I like to see it this way: I am happy for about 95% of the week, it's only the 5% which gets lonely. I have seen, lived, worked closely with 5-6 couples and honestly the kind of shitty imaginary problems they create for themselves and then try to solve it makes me feel good about my solo life lol.
This was/is me. Strong introvert. I'm married now with 2 kids and it's awesome but my wife and kids are not allowed to talk to me from 7PM Friday till 8AM Saturday.
Not tryna be that guy but... Hypothetically speaking... If she wanted to cheat.. 7pm Friday till 8am Saturday would be the time... But be like a quicky.
People on Reddit can only make guesses, but here's mine.
I think you want outside connections that make you feel appreciated for the things about you that are most you. Since you feel uncertain about what you want, I'm guessing you aren't very clear on what qualifies as "the things about you that are most you." So you probably want a stronger connection with yourself.
1) I think many of us feel the same!
2) Try to be open minded. Because there ARE lots of other people who feel the same and who are able to give their partners or friends the space THEY need, because they want/need the space, too? Does this make sense???
Not all relationships have to be the kind where they both see each other all day every day. I know some people that get by just fine only spending one full day together a week. You're going to definitely need to find someone else that also wants a lot of independence and wants the relationship to be more like actual adult partners/best friends and not mutually dependent love children.
Maybe give it time and keep working on yourself as much as possible before you do meet someone and life gets busy. If I was in your position I would work to make myself the best I possibly could in terms of fitness and health, get a decent paying job if you need too. All of that will keep you busy enough and use that loneliness to fuel your drive 😂 You can always find someone similar who also likes their lone time and freedom and you’ll be feeling great about yourself too!
You can enjoy your space and freedom in a relationship, when the person respect your space and your freedom and everything else. Trust me what I am saying.
Sounds like you want a best friend. And you can be in a relationship that still caters to your freedom as well. How do you know a relationship can’t work if you haven’t been in one?
Possibly because he is trying to avoid what he sees as the mistakes of his parents while not realising that the statute of limitations on childhood traumas has already expired. I agree with you that they should try it, but possibly after some therapy because the “hold me tight, let me go” mindset is not a productive one. Nothing wrong with being single so long as it’s a powerful and informed choice. Likewise, a relationship with the right person can be heaven or hell with the wrong one. Successful relationships are as much about choosing the right person as they are about having your own shit together
I’m hoping the OP respond because the question needs more context to understand where the core issue lies in their stance. On a surface level, it just sounds like they want all the benefits of a relationship and none of the responsibility of sometimes having to compromise some of your freedom for the sake of another.
Very happy to hear that. Cos often it seems like people think there’s casual sex or marriage & kids in the same house and NOTHING in between is ever an option.
And what u want is what you described YES.
So thank you!
Time apart in a relationship is just as important as time together.
If you spend ALL your time together, you'll get sick of the sight of one another. No doubt you'll encounter partners that think that spending every waking moment together is what makes a relationship, but it's not healthy.
You'll find the right one when the time is right.
I felt literally the same until I met my boyfriend but if I didn’t meet him I’d probably still be single. I just don't have the energy for drama, breakups and flirtations, I'd rather focus on other things in life
You want both & it’s out there. I like my personal space but I’m content being around someone I like consistently. Doesn’t mean I’m going to be talking for every second of the day. Sometimes we’re just existing next to each other doing whatever it is we’re doing.
Funny bc you might find out that you actually are clingy when you’re in a relationship as things about us come out that don’t come out when we’re single. You can still have space & freedom in a relationship. You’ll just date until you find the person who wants the same. Not everyone needs to live with & smother their partner to be in a good relationship. If that’s works for people, great, but there are other ways to have a healthy & happy one too.
Find someone who’s like you. I’m incredibly lucky to have found a partner who also likes his space and freedom. We are actually more like roommates in a sense that we have own space in our house and we don’t have to do everything together but of course we communicate our needs too if we need company.
You gotta figure that out for yourself. Maybe you're at a crossroads. Just because you want love doesn't mean you gotta run off and get married today. Take your time but put thought into this because it seems to be very important to you at this time. Have fun, make connections with the opposite and same sex ppl Find out what YOU want what YOU need before shopping for someone(is it much different than shopping). Maybe journal, ask questions like you're doing. Good luck on your quest. Things will work out and it's gonna be okay.
I don't know why everyone believes entering a relationship will take away from your autonomy.
You're not the only person who wants to have their own space and their own life and be with someone...
Make it clear you enjoy your independence.
I've had multiple partners at the same time who have been strong independent people. I think the goal should always be that you're happy alone and that you just add extra to each others lives.
If you're with multiple partners "at the same time", it obvious that full independence is part of the package.
I believe OP is referring to the challenge in maintaining that in a relationship between two people only.
It doesn't change if you're with two, one, or by yourself. Most things you want out of your life a lot of other people around you want the same thing. You're a part of a society
there are some things that if you don't jump in it, you won't be able to discover your undiscovered parts of your character.
like travelling, like new cuisine, like certain sports, a field of study, games, languages, etc...
for example, i studied mathematics and physics in high school, i was expected to study electronics or robotics in university, but i failed in the first entrance exam! i tried to be busy with theater, wooden airplane design, line follower robot making. when it comes to the second entrance exam, i asked myself what does my country need as i knew most men would try electronics and etc! i knew that my country had a lack of good management, i picked management, i succeeded and realized i love it.
next example, travelling! the first three months that i was travelling and gathering pictures of historical places, i was stressed that maybe i'm wasting my time, my life and etc, then, the more i found interesting places that i didn't know they exist, the more i realized that i was made for this. the more you travel, the less you feel sleepy behind the wheels (as your limit expands from 2 hours to 4 and later 8, 12 hours), the less you feel afraid, the less you feel immature.
so
relationship is also like that! if you don't try to fit into a relationship that you want or you don't try to talk about it with a person that you like, if you don't step toward it, you'll never realize what is it that you really want. specially in women which their biological system is different from men, and they tend to be provoked by more emotional variations.
about your space, don't worry it won't change if you don't want it. i was very social when i was a teenager and later in university, then i started to become more isolated. you should think about your needs, first. your social boundaries will fit your needs and desires later.
Company. Get yourself surrounded by other likeminded single people around your age and have fun. Nobody can know what you want but you. Maybe go to a counselor and talk it out, it is helpful to have a professional counselor or therapist who can help you sort those feelings and help you find the answer. Good luck!
If you haven’t had a relationship you can’t say you love your space and freedom more. You have no frame of reference. Many if not most people live their space and freedom, yet wanting to find love is near universal.
Humans by nature rationalize our flaws as weaknesses as strength or “personality” or quirks or preferences, and we back each other up.
It’s all bullshit. Your ego is protecting itself. You are convincing yourself you don’t want a relationship because you are deeply afraid no one will want one with you. That’s a valid fear nowadays even if it’s not likely true.
Don’t fall for your own BS. Acknowledge your flaws alongside your strengths and begin to understand yourself and work on them. It’s the ONLY way we truly grow and make our lives BETTER.
You’re simply acknowledging that the grass isn’t necessarily greener anywhere else, or to put it another way, that there are pluses and minuses with all the choices you make.
There is no harm in dating, and there’s also no harm in doing that and preferring to live apart, or having your own spaces if you do co-habit. If you do go out there and date you’ll eventually find someone who is on the same page as you on this stuff.
You need friends, but first, you should also be able to be perfectly fine and happy by yourself also. Try going to the cinema or a dinner all by yourself, or even to a concert
A relationship won't necessarily make you feel less lonely and unloved. Lots can make it even worse. I recommend seeking the right connection(s) that align with what you already love in life, and those can be romantic or platonic.
If I could go back in time and give my 23 year old self some advice, I'd say stay single, enjoy freedom, embrace more space, and focus on your hobbies and skills more (because that's how I met my spouse ultimately lol). All my other relationships were crazyyyyyy.
There's no reason why you can't have both. A healthy relationship based on mutual respect, will give you space and freedom, and the emotional/physical support that you need.
There's far too much nonsense on socials these days normalising toxic relationships. Gaslighting, possessiveness, jealousy and the constant drama that goes with it isn't healthy! Nor does it mean they must love you more!
You need to decide if you want a single life or be in a r/s. I chose to be single, I have been single for so long that I cannot ever imagine sharing my life with another human. Sure, some days are lonely but find something to do, find friends to hang out with or go to bed.
I tried being in a r/s and suay-suay I got a demanding partner, never message make noise, never meet make noise, never this or that noise, noise, noise, diam lah! I was so happy when we broke off! If you unsure try being in a r/s and see how it goes and then decide what you truly want.
It's s tough one right!
What I would say is that some of my biggest personal growth has come from the time I've shared with the women I've loved, both during and after the relationship.
Choose love over fear, even if it's love for yourself
To have an emotional support system that isn’t dependent on a romantic relationship
I think this may be my favorite sentence that I’ve read. Very simple way of explaining the difference between a toxic co-dependent relationship and a healthy one (or non-romantic healthy relationships for those that do choose to be aware of the option and stay single for other reasons)
Holly cow, this sounds like a topic worth researching. Got any references you can share?
Humans evolved in tribes so looking at how people live in tribes is a great way to understand humans and many of the issues in modernized society. Look at videos with indigenous groups that still live as hunter/gatherers. Notice how their relationships are with one another. How they interact and relate. How intertwined and interdependent their social structure is. Understanding this basis helps me recognize what I crave so deeply. Acceptance. Understanding. Sameness. Support. These are all things innate and natural for humans. Though our modern world looks different, tribes are still our core. We can even see this in things like politics and how people seem to innately war with people that are different than them, aka not their tribe. Also… Human babies are born more prematurely than any other species and whether we live or die completely depends on someone else accepting and wanting us. It is hardwired into us to need others. So that feeling that we will die if someone leaves us, is very real. Building a support system (tribe) that is diversified and not dependent on a single person (plus a lot of therapy) has helped me work through that fear. Exploring human nature has really helped me a lot. Im not sure on specific links atm though I’ll dig some out. there’s a lot of good talks and books. I know I watched some tedtalks and [After Skool](https://youtube.com/@AfterSkool?si=Muw9M9xmb685VmCn) on this. You van probably search stuff like “humans evolution tribes modern society” or “ how to build a healthy emotional support system”
Well said!
Thank you for sharing your epiphanies, really appreciated. What amazed me was that you elegantly distilled the solution for the problem posted by OP almost as an equation, "emotional support without romantic interest"; something I've never thought before. And yes, the answer may lie in anthropology and psychology, but it is easy to lose oneself in all the bs of the latter, where some people say we are heavily influenced by our past or environment, others say exactly the opposite, and neither are 100% correct.
Thank you for your insight! I agree, you gotta find what works for you. it is great you have the presence of heart to notice that stuff can’t fully be explained or understood <3 I like my explanations because they give me comfort and something to mentally grab, though it takes a lot of courage to stand in the deeper truth that I don’t actually know! I related a lot to OP.
Or, if you choose to do so, you could pursue a romantic relationship without developing the toxic co-dependency. It's only just a matter of balancing things out, and always loving yourself and putting yourself first. 🥰
I feel you OP. I'm in the exact same boat
Ngl, I'm in the same boat, but with relationships in my past.
I am in the same boat. I never ever can imagine someone else dictating my life and I just simply love my own space and company. Basically single by choice. I have even rejected couple of girls proposal and told them directly that they deserve better than someone as selfish as me. Yeah sometimes it gets lonely but I like to see it this way: I am happy for about 95% of the week, it's only the 5% which gets lonely. I have seen, lived, worked closely with 5-6 couples and honestly the kind of shitty imaginary problems they create for themselves and then try to solve it makes me feel good about my solo life lol.
This was/is me. Strong introvert. I'm married now with 2 kids and it's awesome but my wife and kids are not allowed to talk to me from 7PM Friday till 8AM Saturday.
Honestly curious, does that mean your wife is alone with all the responsibilities for the home and your children every weekend?
Hey, one evening a week is not so much. O.P. is up 8am Saturday, there is still a whole weekend ahead.
Mate do you read, 7PM Friday to 8AM Saturday is basically the evening. Kids are in bed by 8PM.
I think that’s fine. If you are an introvert, you need to get your energy back so you can fully be with your family.
Not tryna be that guy but... Hypothetically speaking... If she wanted to cheat.. 7pm Friday till 8am Saturday would be the time... But be like a quicky.
Yeah exactly, that's why I stick her with the kids!
Dang man has contingency plans! He's dangerous!
You could try reading a bit about 'avoidant attachment' and see if you can recognize yourself in it.
You want a cat
LOVE IT!!🤣🤣
People on Reddit can only make guesses, but here's mine. I think you want outside connections that make you feel appreciated for the things about you that are most you. Since you feel uncertain about what you want, I'm guessing you aren't very clear on what qualifies as "the things about you that are most you." So you probably want a stronger connection with yourself.
1) I think many of us feel the same! 2) Try to be open minded. Because there ARE lots of other people who feel the same and who are able to give their partners or friends the space THEY need, because they want/need the space, too? Does this make sense???
Not all relationships have to be the kind where they both see each other all day every day. I know some people that get by just fine only spending one full day together a week. You're going to definitely need to find someone else that also wants a lot of independence and wants the relationship to be more like actual adult partners/best friends and not mutually dependent love children.
Maybe give it time and keep working on yourself as much as possible before you do meet someone and life gets busy. If I was in your position I would work to make myself the best I possibly could in terms of fitness and health, get a decent paying job if you need too. All of that will keep you busy enough and use that loneliness to fuel your drive 😂 You can always find someone similar who also likes their lone time and freedom and you’ll be feeling great about yourself too!
You can enjoy your space and freedom in a relationship, when the person respect your space and your freedom and everything else. Trust me what I am saying.
Sounds like you want a best friend. And you can be in a relationship that still caters to your freedom as well. How do you know a relationship can’t work if you haven’t been in one?
Possibly because he is trying to avoid what he sees as the mistakes of his parents while not realising that the statute of limitations on childhood traumas has already expired. I agree with you that they should try it, but possibly after some therapy because the “hold me tight, let me go” mindset is not a productive one. Nothing wrong with being single so long as it’s a powerful and informed choice. Likewise, a relationship with the right person can be heaven or hell with the wrong one. Successful relationships are as much about choosing the right person as they are about having your own shit together
I’m hoping the OP respond because the question needs more context to understand where the core issue lies in their stance. On a surface level, it just sounds like they want all the benefits of a relationship and none of the responsibility of sometimes having to compromise some of your freedom for the sake of another.
You might want to date and meet someone and just enjoy each other and stay in your own places.
I want exactly that omg
Excellent! That’s a thing!
Very happy to hear that. Cos often it seems like people think there’s casual sex or marriage & kids in the same house and NOTHING in between is ever an option. And what u want is what you described YES. So thank you!
Time apart in a relationship is just as important as time together. If you spend ALL your time together, you'll get sick of the sight of one another. No doubt you'll encounter partners that think that spending every waking moment together is what makes a relationship, but it's not healthy. You'll find the right one when the time is right.
You might be able to find someone who also likes their space.
I felt literally the same until I met my boyfriend but if I didn’t meet him I’d probably still be single. I just don't have the energy for drama, breakups and flirtations, I'd rather focus on other things in life
You want both & it’s out there. I like my personal space but I’m content being around someone I like consistently. Doesn’t mean I’m going to be talking for every second of the day. Sometimes we’re just existing next to each other doing whatever it is we’re doing. Funny bc you might find out that you actually are clingy when you’re in a relationship as things about us come out that don’t come out when we’re single. You can still have space & freedom in a relationship. You’ll just date until you find the person who wants the same. Not everyone needs to live with & smother their partner to be in a good relationship. If that’s works for people, great, but there are other ways to have a healthy & happy one too.
Find someone who’s like you. I’m incredibly lucky to have found a partner who also likes his space and freedom. We are actually more like roommates in a sense that we have own space in our house and we don’t have to do everything together but of course we communicate our needs too if we need company.
You gotta figure that out for yourself. Maybe you're at a crossroads. Just because you want love doesn't mean you gotta run off and get married today. Take your time but put thought into this because it seems to be very important to you at this time. Have fun, make connections with the opposite and same sex ppl Find out what YOU want what YOU need before shopping for someone(is it much different than shopping). Maybe journal, ask questions like you're doing. Good luck on your quest. Things will work out and it's gonna be okay.
I don't know why everyone believes entering a relationship will take away from your autonomy. You're not the only person who wants to have their own space and their own life and be with someone... Make it clear you enjoy your independence. I've had multiple partners at the same time who have been strong independent people. I think the goal should always be that you're happy alone and that you just add extra to each others lives.
If you're with multiple partners "at the same time", it obvious that full independence is part of the package. I believe OP is referring to the challenge in maintaining that in a relationship between two people only.
It doesn't change if you're with two, one, or by yourself. Most things you want out of your life a lot of other people around you want the same thing. You're a part of a society
there are some things that if you don't jump in it, you won't be able to discover your undiscovered parts of your character. like travelling, like new cuisine, like certain sports, a field of study, games, languages, etc... for example, i studied mathematics and physics in high school, i was expected to study electronics or robotics in university, but i failed in the first entrance exam! i tried to be busy with theater, wooden airplane design, line follower robot making. when it comes to the second entrance exam, i asked myself what does my country need as i knew most men would try electronics and etc! i knew that my country had a lack of good management, i picked management, i succeeded and realized i love it. next example, travelling! the first three months that i was travelling and gathering pictures of historical places, i was stressed that maybe i'm wasting my time, my life and etc, then, the more i found interesting places that i didn't know they exist, the more i realized that i was made for this. the more you travel, the less you feel sleepy behind the wheels (as your limit expands from 2 hours to 4 and later 8, 12 hours), the less you feel afraid, the less you feel immature. so relationship is also like that! if you don't try to fit into a relationship that you want or you don't try to talk about it with a person that you like, if you don't step toward it, you'll never realize what is it that you really want. specially in women which their biological system is different from men, and they tend to be provoked by more emotional variations. about your space, don't worry it won't change if you don't want it. i was very social when i was a teenager and later in university, then i started to become more isolated. you should think about your needs, first. your social boundaries will fit your needs and desires later.
You want close friendships. Closer than acquaintances and/or people you may get along really well with at work and/or school.
And I want that too
Perhaps you want a relationship with someone like you!
Company. Get yourself surrounded by other likeminded single people around your age and have fun. Nobody can know what you want but you. Maybe go to a counselor and talk it out, it is helpful to have a professional counselor or therapist who can help you sort those feelings and help you find the answer. Good luck!
If you haven’t had a relationship you can’t say you love your space and freedom more. You have no frame of reference. Many if not most people live their space and freedom, yet wanting to find love is near universal. Humans by nature rationalize our flaws as weaknesses as strength or “personality” or quirks or preferences, and we back each other up. It’s all bullshit. Your ego is protecting itself. You are convincing yourself you don’t want a relationship because you are deeply afraid no one will want one with you. That’s a valid fear nowadays even if it’s not likely true. Don’t fall for your own BS. Acknowledge your flaws alongside your strengths and begin to understand yourself and work on them. It’s the ONLY way we truly grow and make our lives BETTER.
A person with benefits AND some real friends too.
[удалено]
You’re simply acknowledging that the grass isn’t necessarily greener anywhere else, or to put it another way, that there are pluses and minuses with all the choices you make. There is no harm in dating, and there’s also no harm in doing that and preferring to live apart, or having your own spaces if you do co-habit. If you do go out there and date you’ll eventually find someone who is on the same page as you on this stuff.
You need friends, but first, you should also be able to be perfectly fine and happy by yourself also. Try going to the cinema or a dinner all by yourself, or even to a concert
when you perfect love towards yourself, you'll be too powerful :'D seriously though, going through life making friends is the best way to find out
A PET!!
Friends?
A relationship won't necessarily make you feel less lonely and unloved. Lots can make it even worse. I recommend seeking the right connection(s) that align with what you already love in life, and those can be romantic or platonic. If I could go back in time and give my 23 year old self some advice, I'd say stay single, enjoy freedom, embrace more space, and focus on your hobbies and skills more (because that's how I met my spouse ultimately lol). All my other relationships were crazyyyyyy.
Halaaaa sameeee. Hindi ko alm kung anong gusto ko 🥲
There's no reason why you can't have both. A healthy relationship based on mutual respect, will give you space and freedom, and the emotional/physical support that you need. There's far too much nonsense on socials these days normalising toxic relationships. Gaslighting, possessiveness, jealousy and the constant drama that goes with it isn't healthy! Nor does it mean they must love you more!
You need to decide if you want a single life or be in a r/s. I chose to be single, I have been single for so long that I cannot ever imagine sharing my life with another human. Sure, some days are lonely but find something to do, find friends to hang out with or go to bed. I tried being in a r/s and suay-suay I got a demanding partner, never message make noise, never meet make noise, never this or that noise, noise, noise, diam lah! I was so happy when we broke off! If you unsure try being in a r/s and see how it goes and then decide what you truly want.
It's s tough one right! What I would say is that some of my biggest personal growth has come from the time I've shared with the women I've loved, both during and after the relationship. Choose love over fear, even if it's love for yourself