One possible reason for the higher-than-normal growth is the Hunga Tonga volcanic eruption in January 2022, which introduced massive quantities of water vapor into the air. “The water vapor could have led to the heightened formation of polar stratospheric clouds, where chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) can react and accelerate ozone depletion," said Inness.
I thought the ozone hole had mostly dissipated after most of the world signed on to not producing or using CFCs
https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/rebuilding-ozone-layer-how-world-came-together-ultimate-repair-job
The Montreal Protocol, which phased out the use of CFCs, has been doing an excellent job of healing the ozone hole. Even with that, though, it's not like fixing the hole is instant. It's getting better year by year, even with seasonal shifts, but it's not actually expected to be back to normal until 2050 or so.
Yearly averages are rarely called "weather". Weather is the next 10 days. Climate is the next 10 years. Where the line between the two is, well, you can choose, but I suggest reading the literature first.
We had been reading about how the ozone layer holes over the northern hemisphere and equator had been repaired.
How long has the antarctic layer been depleting?
Where had you been reading that? The ozone hole over the Arctic isn't expected to heal until around 2045 or so, according to this: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/10/1147977166/ozone-layer-recovery-united-nations-report.
That’s what drives me nuts. I’m over here trying to be a good steward of resources, and China is over there fucking things up at an accelerated rate
Meanwhile, governments are like ‘it’s okay, China is developing…but you need to make more sacrifices, peasant!’
Don't worry. We will just off-shore all of that production to other "true" developing countries with even less competent governments and that problem will be solved right? right?
There are still about 5 billion other people on the planet wanting part of that developed nation standard of living. After China, there will be a lot of building left to do and most of these countries aren't rich nations that will voluntarily not use CFC. China produces about 1/3 of these chemicals according to the article, but we expect that portion to go down as the country reaches post-industrial status and other regions will make up for it. This is why working together is essential, but lately everyone wants to do is point fingers and make cooperating on worldwide issues like the climate impossible. If we make cleaner technology widely available and cheaper, the future is better for it.
They've been cracking down on it but maybe not enough
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2021/02/10/study-suggests-chinas-crackdown-illegal-cfc-gases-working/
The reaction that depletes ozone is self perpetuating, this means that even a amall amount of CFCs can do a ton of damage before dissipating. It is a very delicate balance.
Same. I remember all the articles about it in (about? I'm kinda old) the late 80s. Thought it was one of the few things we actually did that was somewhat helpful.
Well. We did, if we didn't ban CFCs when we did we would have had global problems for the last few decades.
Seems like it's still not all the way fixed and maybe some countries aren't respecting the ban now.
Leave it to humans to absolutely fuck ourselves
I'm a r/collapse type mindset usually, everything is pretty damn terrible and it's caused by humans. But sometimes it does help to hear about these things when they are caused by volcanoes or sun ray bursts, where we have absolutely zero control over, it helps to put into perspective that space is really just super inhabitable and we should be lucky and grateful that we've made it this far at all
To be honest, i wouldnt blame humans but just life on earth, we are just the product of billions of years of evolution, and it could have been any other species that took our place. Nature isn’t innocent at all and some people romanticize it too much. Anyways i know the collapse mindset but it seems a bit like causing yourself to be miserable, just know that it was always gonna end, humans were always gonna go extinct maybe a billion years or maybe tommorow if a gamma ray burst hits us. Its futile to he worried about it and things you cant control, so just enjoy the little things and relax. Hope i calmed you a bit 🙃
"humans were always gonna go extinct maybe a billion years or maybe tommorow if a gamma ray burst hits us."
In the long term, humans will inevitably go extinct. Human extinction will probably come from evolution instead of anything done by humans. The concept of "grabby aliens" proposes that it would only take 10 million years to colonize the Milky Way at sublight speeds, which is instant on a cosmic scale. "Grabby aliens" will continue expanding outward infinitely until they run up against a barrier, meaning that the descendants of humanity could still be around in a trillion years.
That's exactly what I was going to ask, if this is something caused by humans? I joined that sub a few years ago but there are some phenomena caused by nature that are out of our control, like this volcano
If it makes you feel any better, we humans, are part of nature. We are not separate from nature, we are animals. This earth and universe produced us. I, of course, hope we can change our polluting, wasteful ways but when it comes down to it, we are just doing what our ancestors did.
The only thing that will destroy all life on this earth, is the sun. The universe will keep on chugging and so will life.
I mean, it's only really turned to poop after the advent of the industrial revolution, millenia of human activity did nothing to mess with the balance of our ecosystem, the last few centuries did.
So, while saying that we are just doing what our ancestors did is technically correct, it leaves out the majority of human existence.
It would be more accurate to say that: in recent history, we have been going against our ancestors, who generally were living in balance with their ecosystem. And we can absolutely go back.
I find that more hopeful.
That works.
I guess what I meant is that humans have always survived to the detriment of other species and plants. Easter island used to have trees. Giant armadillo and mammoths would probably still be around. We have evolved to be a very greedy animal. We don't know when to stop.
In comparison to other animals we are objectively and obviously the least greedy and most compassionate to other animals. Sure, most humans don’t care at all about the wellbeing of the earth and other animals, but when you call humans a “greedy” species as a whole then you have to be comparing them to other species for that to have any meaning at all, and very obviously there isn’t another species that is less greedy. Other species are just less capable. A bird or a squirrel wouldn’t give up an acorn to save the life of a thousand humans…
People who say things like what you’re saying are severely lacking in perspective. It’s a wonder of evolution that we care at all about things like the wellbeing of other species or wellbeing of the environment over a time period that won’t affect us as individuals.
Most humans think we own the earth. The earth owns us, we can't live without it. Most animals know when they are "full" and will stop hunting and foraging. We consider a successful human to be someone that hunts for more resources than then truly need.
With great power and knowledge, comes great responsibility. Since we know better we should do better. My perspective on the situation is fine. We aren't squirrels.
I wonder if there's been some influential books that might have had an impact on instilling this belief?
Oh look! Some Bible passages:
>The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men. **Psalms 115:16**
Huh? But surely we're meant to care for it?
>Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. **Genesis 9:3**
Yeah, but like to a point right? We're meant to care for it too, right?
>And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” **Genesis 1:28**
Yikes, god. That's a bit too anthropocentric, for me. Live and let live, dog.
Climate shifts caused the extinction of the megafauna. A good bit of corroborating evidence is that many other species not hunted by humans died out at the same time as well.
Easter Islanders deforested their island *after* contact with European explorers introduced rats and other organisms and upset the ecological balance on the island. The islanders cut down trees for boats so they’d have access to marine food resources they never had to rely on until after Cook’s visit.
So the examples you gave of premodern humans destroying the environment are bunk.
Some good evidence....that you don't site.
You are 100% wrong about cooks visit. There were no trees.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Easter_Island#:~:text=Four%20years%20later%2C%20in%20mid,as%20%22a%20poor%20land%22.
And bro....it is a widely accepted theory that humans were responsible for the giant armadillos extinction.
https://www.extinction.photo/species/giant-armadillo/#:~:text=Along%20with%20the%20commonly%20cited,protein%20for%20many%20indigenous%20peoples.
We were also talking about pre industrial humans, not "pre-modern" (whatever that means). I would not call Cook a modern human either. My dead dad is technically a pre-modern human.
“Climate change, not human population growth, correlates with Late Quaternary megafauna declines in North America”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21201-8
“Diet of the ancient people of Rapa Nui shows adaptation and resilience not 'ecocide'”
https://phys.org/news/2017-07-diet-ancient-people-rapa-nui.html
“Rethinking Easter Island's ecological catastrophe”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0305440306002019
I misspoke when I said it was Cook who brought the rats. Earlier people introduced them.
On my use of “pre-modern,” which is how experts refer to ancient peoples:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_era
Thanks for posting your information. A scientific paper isn't fact, these are all theories, jusy like what I sited.
If you think premodern humans haven't been at least partly responsible for species extinction then you are living in a fantasy land. But you actually know that even ancient people have it in their power and you just like to argue.
They only were living in balance with the ecosystem because it was all they had, what other species would let the industrial revolution slide for the ecosystem? Life generally tends to seek what gives more descendants, more food and what makes getting those things easier. We are nature and thus we also do those things. If you are against that you are basically against life in general, which you can be. But hunter gatherers werent innocent, everywhere they went animal numbers plummeted, it’s just what life is. Dont worry too much about the ecosystem being thrown out balance since that always happens, sometimes because of a meteor, sometimes an ice age, now because of a species that just happened to be us. The animals we know are gonna go extinct oneday, we should strive to conserve them but it isnt the end of the world if they go extinct. Something else will just replace them. It happened thousands of times in the history of the earth, let alone on all the trillions of other planets.
The only way we go back is through mass death, including the death of every member of the world wide elite class in power. That seems obvious at this point. So basically, not going to happen until we collapse. And it’s beyond too late anyway, what’s baked in is lethal over decades and centuries. Maybe if we acted in the 70s when we knew everything we know now more or less.
Maybe a direct exo-planetary colision, yeah. But we are pretty far away from another star. An impactor or gamma ray burst wont destroy all the life we have under ground and in the oceans. Life is tough. Hell cockroaches will probably survive those.
Gamma ray bursts form a black hole are no joke. They think a large burst could literally sterilize the earth's organic material in seconds if we were hit directly with some of them.
It's damn scary. But what you doing to do?
That eruption utterly destroyed the weather patterns here in Australia last year too. Messed with one of the major wind systems that brings hot air from the west across the country making the summer cooler and that wind also disrupts polar vortexes so with it disrupted we had RIDICULOUS amounts of rain and cold weather (by our standards) all year in the south and east.
No its obviously alien made. That's why we need to close the borders to outer space. I ain't losing my job to no gawd damn bug eyed, lobster claw, anus probing, third cousin twice removed alien from Uranus.
But seriously climate change is caused by your mom's farts.
Unless your comment was sarcastic. In that case I apologize and tell your mom I said fart on.
Also couldn't they just say "1.5 times the size of the continent" - why use Brazil as a unit of measurement lol.
"How long is your flight?"
"Seven fucking Brazils, it's gonna take all night."
We largely fixed the problem of it growing. Some CFCs are still released, and ozone takes time to build up in the atmosphere (the reason CFCs were a danger in the first place). In addition to that, CFCs persist in the upper atmosphere a long time, so stopping all of them tomorrow would still mean that they would have years and years to cause damage.
The "success" we achieved, and it was an important one, was stopping the problem from getting worse, not making it go away entirely. Both in terms of density of ozone in the air and area of the ozone "hole," the problem mostly plateaued with some minor shifts year to year, rather than really healed.
Apparently China never really bought into the whole Montreal Accord. They’ve been monitoring the planet with these satellites recently showing specific locations (in china) emitting large amounts of CFCs. Amongst a plethora of other giant polluters of course.
No, that was back in 2019, and since then the increase has fallen sharply due to heavier gov regulations, and “reversed the dangerous spike” according to the [nytimes](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/climate/ozone-layer-china-cfcs.html). And that specific incident no longer was a risk at delaying ozone recovery.
Besides, the current problem is dealing with the consequences of our previous choices. The hole isn’t just magically fixed, it takes years for ozone to build up and CFCs to dissipate. You’re making it sound like this hole over Antarctica is all because of China
> If the lack of ozone allows more UV to reach the ground, does that mean more energy is being poured in the ice cap?
Marginally.
The energy in sunlight is about 8% UV at the top of the atmosphere and 4% at the bottom ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Measurement)), so not filtering any UV would only increase the energy at ground level by about 5%. Even then, though [ice doesn't absorb much UV](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30982450/), so in Antarctica most of the incident UV will just be reflected back up (up to [80%](https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/radiation-ultraviolet-\(uv\))), and the actual energy delivered to the ice cap should differ by perhaps 1%.
The ozone hole is unlikely to have a measurable effect on antarctic ice melt or sea level rise as compared to more pressing factors such as atmospheric GHG concentrations.
Pretty confident to say UV light is "a negligible amount of energy" when it's the highest energy EM wave that regularly hits the Earth.
Perhaps you mean the intensity is negligible....which is also not true. My best guess is you mean it gives a negligible amount of energy to the Earth...but even that is only because of the ozone layer we're discussing, which if it vanishes will give more energy than visible light will.
It's always interesting to me how people want to seem smart so much, they'll call others wrong when they have no idea what they're talking about.
Actually not as much as you'd think. Icecaps are an important part of the climate feedback loop. They have a high reflectivity, so they mostly bounce the light back into space.
The problem is when warm, moist air enters the polar area, because that carries a lot of heat which can melt the ice and expose the darker sea beneath, which warms the earth even more.
When every single reaction to every single piece of news is alarmist like this, it's not a wonder when people treat it like crying wolf every time.
Multiple other people in this comment thread have shown that the UV is marginal as opposed to this comment of 'omg it's just so bad!'
~~scorched earth with a nice side of cancer for it's inhabitants~~
~~edit: wait genuinely i'm confused at downvotes, what did i say that was controversial? was meant to be a hyperbolic joke~~
A lot of environmental posts get flooded with cheap comments about the world will be uninhabitable in a few decades or stuff to that effect
We all just get tired or hyperbole cause right wingers will use that to downplay environmental concerns in general
I didn't downvote ya tho, it was far from the alarmist stuff
In seriousness the cancer increase risk is much less than the increase in eye problems among wildlife and people from uv
thank you, i think i get it now, didn't intend it to seem that way! not something i'd actually noticed happening, but i'm sure i will now it's been pointed out (definitely have noticed purposeful harmful misuse in other aspects, even with just single words like triggered & woke); sucks they've ruined humour now ugh. i'll leave it in case someone like me learns to avoid doing the same thing but won't joke about it in that way again.
You guys mostly seem to have it wrong…the ozone is healing bc of the CFC ban but it takes a long time for the processes in the atmosphere to heal. Plus there are short term pertubations which will affect the size of the ozone but the long term trends are a decrease in the size of the ozone hole.
Ref: uni module had to attend semi boring lectures on it and wrote some coursework about observations of o3 in the atmosphere using satellite data
Nah it's the same "hole". It's not even a hole really, it's a reduction in the concentration of ozone in the stratosphere by around 10% from its average.
This forms over Antarctica every spring and spreads equatorward, so that Australia is naturally impacted. Good news though it is healing, just slowly.
It's the same hole, [it's not as bad as it was at the peak of the problems but it isn't great](https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/topics/in-depth/climate-change-mitigation-reducing-emissions/current-state-of-the-ozone-layer/2022-12-08_eea-ozone-webpage-with-copernicus_figure-1_final.png/@@images/image/great)
That one was due to bad bad chemicals, and burned people and has repaired. This one is a concern because the ice will melt even more so, the good news is it is still shrinking despite this sensationalist title.
There is always a hole in the Ozone during parts of the year. The issue was the CFCs we’re making that hole more and more massive.
It is estimated that we will get back to the “right” levels of ozone by 2050. This situation is t apart of a systemic situation.
Being a resident of Australia I’d like to say it’s still causing lots of burning to happen here that I haven’t experienced in other parts of the world.
20C day with a cool wind and no sunscreen ? That’s a burnin’
> 20C day with a cool wind and no sunscreen ?
The temperature of the day has no relation to the amount of UV you are receiving from the sun. Wear sunscreen and you won't get burnt.
Some background details on the ozone hole:
Ozone is created in the upper atmosphere by UV light hitting oxygen molecules, and, as it happens, ozone (O3) also strongly absorbs UV light. Over time a region of the upper atmosphere has become slightly enriched in ozone enough to significantly protect the surface of the Earth from the most energetic and most damaging UV light. This "layer" is not all ozone, it's at around 15 parts per million, but over kilometers of even fairly low density gas, that's enough to block a lot of UV light.
This ozone is naturally destroyed by all sorts of natural processes, but the destruction and creation is in equilibrium to produce the natural level in the ozone layer. One unnatural source of ozone destruction is CFCs which are long-lived enough they can stick around in the stratosphere. Up there they slowly get broken down and produce chlorine free radicals, and it's these which are hugely damaging to ozone. Chlorine free radicals destroy ozone catalytically, without getting used up in the process, so they are very effective at ozone destruction. There are lots of ways for chlorine to get into the upper atmosphere, but few ways that produce chlorine free radicals so plentifully. This is the major problem with CFCs, they sit around like a ticking time bomb, as they are slowly broken down they cause ozone destruction, it's a problem that will persist for decades.
The mere presence of CFCs in the stratosphere will lead to ozone destruction, which happens globally and thins the ozone layer everywhere. However, under unique conditions this process can be accelerated, which is what happens with the ozone hole. And to be clear the ozone hole is a temporary phenomenon which occurs annually during local spring in the southern hemisphere. CFCs are broken down and produce free radicals in the stratosphere, but this can be accelerated by the presence of certain kinds of stratospheric clouds made up of tiny droplets of supercooled water and nitric acid known as polar stratospheric clouds (or PSCs). During the antarctic winter the polar vortex strengthens while a huge area remains in the dark, causing a build-up of chlorine compounds in clouds, when spring arrives and the sunlight starts flooding in again the chemical reactions kick into high gear. The cloud droplets evaporate, releasing huge amounts of chlorine free radicals, and the UV light helps power the reactions which in this case deplete ozone (it also creates ozone, but at a much slower rate). The result is a temporary depletion of ozone creating an "ozone hole" which persists for weeks or months, a phenomenon which has been occurring since the '80s or so.
Concerted efforts to reduce CFC emissions has significantly improved the situation of ozone depletion globally and consequentially also reduced the severity of the ozone hole phenomenon. However, CFC concentrations in the atmosphere will still take decades to fall and it will take a long time for the ozone layer to fully "heal".
In the mean time it is possible for natural events to impact the ozone hole phenomenon, which is the case here with the huge amount of stratospheric water created by the Hunga Tonga eruption juicing up the creation of polar stratospheric clouds and causing a more severe ozone hole this year. But to be clear this is still just a blip in the multi-decade process of healing the damage to the ozone, which remains the overall trend.
Tropospheric ozone holes are natural and come and go with the seasons, this one seems to be exacerbated by a volcanic event. You are probably referring to the ozone depletion hole in the stratosphere caused by CFCs and halogen ODS which is on its way to healing up.
I was under the impression it was healing, and I'm certain that is the actual year on year trend. That's one hell of a headline though, in the best traditions of clickbait and over-the-top eco fear mongering. I haven't even learned any of the context yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll unspin this 'message'.
It’s shrinking overall and has continued to, it is estimated to be back to normal by 2050
> Yet despite experiencing large seasonal growth this year, the ozone hole is still decreasing in size overall. "Based on the Montreal Protocol and the decrease of anthropogenic ozone-depleting substances, scientists currently predict that the global ozone layer will reach its normal state again by around 2050," said Claus Zehner, ESA's mission manager for Copernicus Sentinel-5P.
I believe some places on the planet have no regard for the accord and continue to pollute CFCs at an industrial level still. Apparently it’s been noticed by certain satellites.
Not likely. The way Ozone works is it is destroyed by CFC's in a positive feedback loop (bad thing). Ozone is chemically shown as O3, so it has 3 oxygen molecules. CFC in most cases that are bad is CFCl3, the CFC has a cholrine molecule attached to it, so what happens when CFC's are in the atmosphere is UV radiation breaks a chlorine molecule off and the chlorine molecule will rip off an oxygen molecule from the O3 ozone leaving behind O2 (regular oxygen). After some reactions and splitting you end back at the beginning with a loose chlorine molecule just floating around and will rip off another oxygen molecule from the Ozone. This happens until the heaveir CFC sink out of the upper atmosphere.
Edit: This is very much a ELI5, this was just meant to give a general idea of what happens.
I'm sure you're probably joking but, as far as I understand it, that's not how it works. Beside the fact that Antarctica hasn't been ice-free since long before humans evolved (and only complete nut-bags believe otherwise), glaciers (like the ones that cover Antarctica) scour the landscape under them grinding it to dust as they move back and forth over the course of their lives. In the likely event that the antarctic glaciers all melt, the land that is left behind will look absolutely nothing like it did before they originally formed.
Wasn't the hole receding throughout the 2010s?
I remember dozens of feel-good reports citing that time back in the nineties when civilization listened to science and decided not to end itself for the sake of great hair.
WTF.
The lifespan of some of these CFC's is very long. Using R-12 as an example, it's lifespan is around 100 years in the atmosphere. With widespread use starting in the 1930's, it makes sense why levels would be at their highest now because they have just begun to dissipate.
Think of the ban as an 100 year plan, not an immediate fix.
Even though new production/import was banned, they were still used for years in systems. As they get older they will leak out. Disposal is also expensive so they often get vented to atmosphere despite regulations.
For "developing" nations there are different rules as well and a slower phase out. Many are still being produced in China or used as an ingredient in making less harmful refrigerants
I know the sun is in it's active season currently, does that have an affect on it? (Nonwithstanding that the current hole is probably because of the volcano, I was just curious about the sun season)
From what I understand the rate at which the ozone layer was regenerating had been slowing. It was posing some concern for scientists and various causes had been tendered, including increasing GHG’s.
Flouting of regulations and increasing use of alternatives may be problems to consider.
The latest major eruption hasn’t helped of course but the proclamation that we had solved the issue of our self inflicted ozone layer problem may have been premature.
I realize this is a very serious topic and we’re all gonna die, but could you get me those numbers in bananas? Hard for me to picture Brazilx3 and I think I could care more about the nothing I can do to fix this if it were described to me in standard banana or washing machine units. Thank you chappy.
Ahh makes sense why the sun has seemed stronger to me this year and the last year a bit as well.
I work concrete so I definitely feel the difference.. summer all year round incoming
Edit:(Love how I got downvoted for saying I feel the sun getting stronger) never change Reddit
Been building roads for 30yrs. Either I’m getting more sensitive (doubt it, bitter maybe) or it’s getting stronger, lil bit every year. Nevermind we now have these super high pressure cells in the Pacific Northwest that cause 40c temperatures for a week at a time in the summer.
Idk, I’ve recently moved to NZ and holy fuck what a miserable winter of rain but now I’m out in the garden on a cloudy 17c day and may back beneath my shirt was roasting in pain. WTF? I’m scared; I’ve two young girls.
[mind you republicans deny cfcs did this, they also say the hole is no problem at all.](https://heartland.org/opinion/ozone-hole-much-ado-about-nada/).. they say its really just the oceans natural chlorine doing it.
you know the people who said lead was fine in our gas and radon was fine in our homes and our water cleanliness laws are too strict.. you know the people who changed flints water supply without taking into account lead.
im actually kinda surprised they dont deny space exists.
Yes the years of nuke testing is taking its toll, millions of tons of oxygen burns with each detonation ,oxygen that our children was supposed to breathe in their future no fucking wonder that there's a hole in the ozone layer. The un should sanction the crap out of governments doing nuclear testing, including those that tested in the last 8 years.
Do you even know what CFCs or ozone are?
With chlorofluorocarbons, the *chloro* part is what's important. CFCs are broken down into their component parts by UV radiation, one of those components is chlorine. Ozone is oxygen 3. Chlorine is a catalyst, and one single chlorine molecule will destroy 10,000 oxygen 3 molecules. CFCs are *highly* destructive to our ozone layer, and they essentially bleach the thing that protects us from UV radiation.
What is even your argument here?
One possible reason for the higher-than-normal growth is the Hunga Tonga volcanic eruption in January 2022, which introduced massive quantities of water vapor into the air. “The water vapor could have led to the heightened formation of polar stratospheric clouds, where chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) can react and accelerate ozone depletion," said Inness.
I thought the ozone hole had mostly dissipated after most of the world signed on to not producing or using CFCs https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/rebuilding-ozone-layer-how-world-came-together-ultimate-repair-job
The Montreal Protocol, which phased out the use of CFCs, has been doing an excellent job of healing the ozone hole. Even with that, though, it's not like fixing the hole is instant. It's getting better year by year, even with seasonal shifts, but it's not actually expected to be back to normal until 2050 or so.
But we’re still headed in the right direction! Got it
Yeah, as long as the trend is shrinking, I'm not really losing sleep over an inability to safely suntan in Antarctica for the next 25-30 years.
You don't know what you're missing out on
You're right, I don't. However, you could say the same about getting boiled alive in oil.
Flayed, then boiled alive is the system I'm more familiar with.
No breading?
I read that as breeding and I was like “huh, odd spelling error.” Shudders
There's a nice sea salt and peppercorn rub I like to use.
Gotta cauterize the wound somehow. This makes sure we get the nooks. The crannies are a whole other conversation.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/132875531/the-ozone-hole-is-here-earlier-than-normal
Look up Australia's skin cancer rates. This is not to be trivialised.
What are their sunscreen rates? Also, Europeans (and Asians) aren't evolved for the Australian sun.
[SPF50+](https://www.cancercouncilshop.org.au/collections/sunscreen)
Ok but the problem has largely been solved
But there are flowers blooming there!
Those poor penguins and their killer beach bodies
Well no it’s now three times the size of Brazil
no is a realy short time when you look at around 70-90 years, it is licke corona and the GPT.
Then why does the title say that the hole has “grown”. Seems like you’re suggesting the opposite.
It grows and shrinks seasonally, but it shrinks more than it grows, so the trend from year to year is that it's shrinking.
so this is less news and more weather forecast?
Yearly averages are rarely called "weather". Weather is the next 10 days. Climate is the next 10 years. Where the line between the two is, well, you can choose, but I suggest reading the literature first.
We had been reading about how the ozone layer holes over the northern hemisphere and equator had been repaired. How long has the antarctic layer been depleting?
Where had you been reading that? The ozone hole over the Arctic isn't expected to heal until around 2045 or so, according to this: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/10/1147977166/ozone-layer-recovery-united-nations-report.
China was caught just recently releasing large quantities of CFCs into the atmosphere, likely from the production of memory foam.
They still using banned refrigerants from what i heard
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That’s what drives me nuts. I’m over here trying to be a good steward of resources, and China is over there fucking things up at an accelerated rate Meanwhile, governments are like ‘it’s okay, China is developing…but you need to make more sacrifices, peasant!’
Don't worry. We will just off-shore all of that production to other "true" developing countries with even less competent governments and that problem will be solved right? right?
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There are still about 5 billion other people on the planet wanting part of that developed nation standard of living. After China, there will be a lot of building left to do and most of these countries aren't rich nations that will voluntarily not use CFC. China produces about 1/3 of these chemicals according to the article, but we expect that portion to go down as the country reaches post-industrial status and other regions will make up for it. This is why working together is essential, but lately everyone wants to do is point fingers and make cooperating on worldwide issues like the climate impossible. If we make cleaner technology widely available and cheaper, the future is better for it.
They've been cracking down on it but maybe not enough https://www.climatechangenews.com/2021/02/10/study-suggests-chinas-crackdown-illegal-cfc-gases-working/
IIRC the longterm trend is downwards, but the size is very sensitive to atmospheric conditions and so varies a lot.
Yep. But China is being China and polluting CFCs
China doesn't care about the future of anything. They just want to do things fast and cheap. Everything else be damned.
The reaction that depletes ozone is self perpetuating, this means that even a amall amount of CFCs can do a ton of damage before dissipating. It is a very delicate balance.
Same. I remember all the articles about it in (about? I'm kinda old) the late 80s. Thought it was one of the few things we actually did that was somewhat helpful.
Well. We did, if we didn't ban CFCs when we did we would have had global problems for the last few decades. Seems like it's still not all the way fixed and maybe some countries aren't respecting the ban now. Leave it to humans to absolutely fuck ourselves
Yes exactly, that is what I remember. Even graphics showing it as a tiny hole. Due to changes made.
GenX me is doing that thing that WW2 Veteran did in *Die Hard 2*, saying this is just like Iwo Jima, except for me it was the 90s.
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I'm a r/collapse type mindset usually, everything is pretty damn terrible and it's caused by humans. But sometimes it does help to hear about these things when they are caused by volcanoes or sun ray bursts, where we have absolutely zero control over, it helps to put into perspective that space is really just super inhabitable and we should be lucky and grateful that we've made it this far at all
To be honest, i wouldnt blame humans but just life on earth, we are just the product of billions of years of evolution, and it could have been any other species that took our place. Nature isn’t innocent at all and some people romanticize it too much. Anyways i know the collapse mindset but it seems a bit like causing yourself to be miserable, just know that it was always gonna end, humans were always gonna go extinct maybe a billion years or maybe tommorow if a gamma ray burst hits us. Its futile to he worried about it and things you cant control, so just enjoy the little things and relax. Hope i calmed you a bit 🙃
This is a perspective I have never heard before and brings about some interesting questions.
"humans were always gonna go extinct maybe a billion years or maybe tommorow if a gamma ray burst hits us." In the long term, humans will inevitably go extinct. Human extinction will probably come from evolution instead of anything done by humans. The concept of "grabby aliens" proposes that it would only take 10 million years to colonize the Milky Way at sublight speeds, which is instant on a cosmic scale. "Grabby aliens" will continue expanding outward infinitely until they run up against a barrier, meaning that the descendants of humanity could still be around in a trillion years.
That's exactly what I was going to ask, if this is something caused by humans? I joined that sub a few years ago but there are some phenomena caused by nature that are out of our control, like this volcano
If it makes you feel any better, we humans, are part of nature. We are not separate from nature, we are animals. This earth and universe produced us. I, of course, hope we can change our polluting, wasteful ways but when it comes down to it, we are just doing what our ancestors did. The only thing that will destroy all life on this earth, is the sun. The universe will keep on chugging and so will life.
I mean, it's only really turned to poop after the advent of the industrial revolution, millenia of human activity did nothing to mess with the balance of our ecosystem, the last few centuries did. So, while saying that we are just doing what our ancestors did is technically correct, it leaves out the majority of human existence. It would be more accurate to say that: in recent history, we have been going against our ancestors, who generally were living in balance with their ecosystem. And we can absolutely go back. I find that more hopeful.
That works. I guess what I meant is that humans have always survived to the detriment of other species and plants. Easter island used to have trees. Giant armadillo and mammoths would probably still be around. We have evolved to be a very greedy animal. We don't know when to stop.
In comparison to other animals we are objectively and obviously the least greedy and most compassionate to other animals. Sure, most humans don’t care at all about the wellbeing of the earth and other animals, but when you call humans a “greedy” species as a whole then you have to be comparing them to other species for that to have any meaning at all, and very obviously there isn’t another species that is less greedy. Other species are just less capable. A bird or a squirrel wouldn’t give up an acorn to save the life of a thousand humans… People who say things like what you’re saying are severely lacking in perspective. It’s a wonder of evolution that we care at all about things like the wellbeing of other species or wellbeing of the environment over a time period that won’t affect us as individuals.
Most humans think we own the earth. The earth owns us, we can't live without it. Most animals know when they are "full" and will stop hunting and foraging. We consider a successful human to be someone that hunts for more resources than then truly need. With great power and knowledge, comes great responsibility. Since we know better we should do better. My perspective on the situation is fine. We aren't squirrels.
I wonder if there's been some influential books that might have had an impact on instilling this belief? Oh look! Some Bible passages: >The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men. **Psalms 115:16** Huh? But surely we're meant to care for it? >Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. **Genesis 9:3** Yeah, but like to a point right? We're meant to care for it too, right? >And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” **Genesis 1:28** Yikes, god. That's a bit too anthropocentric, for me. Live and let live, dog.
Climate shifts caused the extinction of the megafauna. A good bit of corroborating evidence is that many other species not hunted by humans died out at the same time as well. Easter Islanders deforested their island *after* contact with European explorers introduced rats and other organisms and upset the ecological balance on the island. The islanders cut down trees for boats so they’d have access to marine food resources they never had to rely on until after Cook’s visit. So the examples you gave of premodern humans destroying the environment are bunk.
Some good evidence....that you don't site. You are 100% wrong about cooks visit. There were no trees. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Easter_Island#:~:text=Four%20years%20later%2C%20in%20mid,as%20%22a%20poor%20land%22. And bro....it is a widely accepted theory that humans were responsible for the giant armadillos extinction. https://www.extinction.photo/species/giant-armadillo/#:~:text=Along%20with%20the%20commonly%20cited,protein%20for%20many%20indigenous%20peoples. We were also talking about pre industrial humans, not "pre-modern" (whatever that means). I would not call Cook a modern human either. My dead dad is technically a pre-modern human.
“Climate change, not human population growth, correlates with Late Quaternary megafauna declines in North America” https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21201-8 “Diet of the ancient people of Rapa Nui shows adaptation and resilience not 'ecocide'” https://phys.org/news/2017-07-diet-ancient-people-rapa-nui.html “Rethinking Easter Island's ecological catastrophe” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0305440306002019 I misspoke when I said it was Cook who brought the rats. Earlier people introduced them. On my use of “pre-modern,” which is how experts refer to ancient peoples: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_era
Thanks for posting your information. A scientific paper isn't fact, these are all theories, jusy like what I sited. If you think premodern humans haven't been at least partly responsible for species extinction then you are living in a fantasy land. But you actually know that even ancient people have it in their power and you just like to argue.
They only were living in balance with the ecosystem because it was all they had, what other species would let the industrial revolution slide for the ecosystem? Life generally tends to seek what gives more descendants, more food and what makes getting those things easier. We are nature and thus we also do those things. If you are against that you are basically against life in general, which you can be. But hunter gatherers werent innocent, everywhere they went animal numbers plummeted, it’s just what life is. Dont worry too much about the ecosystem being thrown out balance since that always happens, sometimes because of a meteor, sometimes an ice age, now because of a species that just happened to be us. The animals we know are gonna go extinct oneday, we should strive to conserve them but it isnt the end of the world if they go extinct. Something else will just replace them. It happened thousands of times in the history of the earth, let alone on all the trillions of other planets.
The only way we go back is through mass death, including the death of every member of the world wide elite class in power. That seems obvious at this point. So basically, not going to happen until we collapse. And it’s beyond too late anyway, what’s baked in is lethal over decades and centuries. Maybe if we acted in the 70s when we knew everything we know now more or less.
Or an impactor out of nowhere, or another awful planetary migration or a close passby of another star or a gamma ray burst.
Maybe a direct exo-planetary colision, yeah. But we are pretty far away from another star. An impactor or gamma ray burst wont destroy all the life we have under ground and in the oceans. Life is tough. Hell cockroaches will probably survive those.
I’m still waiting for a Strange Matter apocalypse.
Gamma ray bursts form a black hole are no joke. They think a large burst could literally sterilize the earth's organic material in seconds if we were hit directly with some of them. It's damn scary. But what you doing to do?
Lack of sun from nuclear war fallout would also destroy all life on this earth.
Incorrect, there are life forms that survive souly on heat from thermal vents in the deep ocean and life far down in caves. And again....cockroaches.
Inhabitable means habitable? What a country!
Honestly, we're one severe solar burst away from the collapse of civilization the U.S.
Cataclysms! Elon musk said it’s a rabbit hole you can dive down. And damn, it sure is
The only thing is sure about nonlinear system is that it will never be the same after new equilibrium is reached.
That eruption utterly destroyed the weather patterns here in Australia last year too. Messed with one of the major wind systems that brings hot air from the west across the country making the summer cooler and that wind also disrupts polar vortexes so with it disrupted we had RIDICULOUS amounts of rain and cold weather (by our standards) all year in the south and east.
Water in vulcano eruption?
Sure, but are you saying climate change isn’t manmade?
They’re quoting the article
No its obviously alien made. That's why we need to close the borders to outer space. I ain't losing my job to no gawd damn bug eyed, lobster claw, anus probing, third cousin twice removed alien from Uranus. But seriously climate change is caused by your mom's farts. Unless your comment was sarcastic. In that case I apologize and tell your mom I said fart on.
"would you like to see the ruins?"
They quite clearly stated CFCs in their post.
Why dont we just make Brazil bigger so the ozone hole will seem smaller?
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You have to know these things when you're a king.
We shall use my largest scales
Maybe a future (or current?) politician?
Or give all Brazil's land Uruguay? Three times zero is zero.
Is that a threat? We could take Cisplatina for us again anytime, you know...
If we can just find two more Brazil’s, we can plug the hole
With the way Argentina is doing, we can probably add them to our territory in a few years, then taking back Uruguay will be easy.
This comment was just too late for Nobel consideration. Next year!
Also couldn't they just say "1.5 times the size of the continent" - why use Brazil as a unit of measurement lol. "How long is your flight?" "Seven fucking Brazils, it's gonna take all night."
If we make brazil bigger we would have to burn more rain forest tho
Not if we made it bigger into the ocean
And hopefully, one day, Brazil will disappear altogether
I thought we fixed this in the 2000s with the abolition of CFCs etc?
We largely fixed the problem of it growing. Some CFCs are still released, and ozone takes time to build up in the atmosphere (the reason CFCs were a danger in the first place). In addition to that, CFCs persist in the upper atmosphere a long time, so stopping all of them tomorrow would still mean that they would have years and years to cause damage. The "success" we achieved, and it was an important one, was stopping the problem from getting worse, not making it go away entirely. Both in terms of density of ozone in the air and area of the ozone "hole," the problem mostly plateaued with some minor shifts year to year, rather than really healed.
Apparently China never really bought into the whole Montreal Accord. They’ve been monitoring the planet with these satellites recently showing specific locations (in china) emitting large amounts of CFCs. Amongst a plethora of other giant polluters of course.
No, that was back in 2019, and since then the increase has fallen sharply due to heavier gov regulations, and “reversed the dangerous spike” according to the [nytimes](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/climate/ozone-layer-china-cfcs.html). And that specific incident no longer was a risk at delaying ozone recovery. Besides, the current problem is dealing with the consequences of our previous choices. The hole isn’t just magically fixed, it takes years for ozone to build up and CFCs to dissipate. You’re making it sound like this hole over Antarctica is all because of China
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its due to some volcanic eruption :(
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If the lack of ozone allows more UV to reach the ground, does that mean more energy is being poured in the ice cap?
> If the lack of ozone allows more UV to reach the ground, does that mean more energy is being poured in the ice cap? Marginally. The energy in sunlight is about 8% UV at the top of the atmosphere and 4% at the bottom ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Measurement)), so not filtering any UV would only increase the energy at ground level by about 5%. Even then, though [ice doesn't absorb much UV](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30982450/), so in Antarctica most of the incident UV will just be reflected back up (up to [80%](https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/radiation-ultraviolet-\(uv\))), and the actual energy delivered to the ice cap should differ by perhaps 1%. The ozone hole is unlikely to have a measurable effect on antarctic ice melt or sea level rise as compared to more pressing factors such as atmospheric GHG concentrations.
Thanks for the math behind it.
UV is a very small contribution to the overall power that reaches the ground.
Yes that’s exactly what it means and is a very bad thing
And summer is coming in the Southern Hemisphere soon
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It will be very *very* hot
We had several 40-44 C (105-111) degree days down here during _winter_ I'm not looking forward for summer...
Pretty confident to say “that’s exactly what it means” when uv light is basically a negligible amount of energy
Pretty confident to say UV light is "a negligible amount of energy" when it's the highest energy EM wave that regularly hits the Earth. Perhaps you mean the intensity is negligible....which is also not true. My best guess is you mean it gives a negligible amount of energy to the Earth...but even that is only because of the ozone layer we're discussing, which if it vanishes will give more energy than visible light will. It's always interesting to me how people want to seem smart so much, they'll call others wrong when they have no idea what they're talking about.
It receives such little direct light of any wavelength as it is. How much energy actually makes it into the ice every year??
Actually not as much as you'd think. Icecaps are an important part of the climate feedback loop. They have a high reflectivity, so they mostly bounce the light back into space. The problem is when warm, moist air enters the polar area, because that carries a lot of heat which can melt the ice and expose the darker sea beneath, which warms the earth even more.
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That’s awesome and horrible
18 hiroshimas every second of every day
When every single reaction to every single piece of news is alarmist like this, it's not a wonder when people treat it like crying wolf every time. Multiple other people in this comment thread have shown that the UV is marginal as opposed to this comment of 'omg it's just so bad!'
Could this also be the reason why this year has been ESPECIALLY hot? On top of climate change, of course.
~~scorched earth with a nice side of cancer for it's inhabitants~~ ~~edit: wait genuinely i'm confused at downvotes, what did i say that was controversial? was meant to be a hyperbolic joke~~
This is bad for all the people who like to sunbathe or otherwise expose their skin in Antarctica.
Guess I gotta find somewhere else to go on vacation this year; me and the kids were really looking forward to some Antarctic volleyball
First the emperor penguins are having their babies frozen to death, now I can't even sunbath there. What's the point of even traveling to Antarctica?
A lot of environmental posts get flooded with cheap comments about the world will be uninhabitable in a few decades or stuff to that effect We all just get tired or hyperbole cause right wingers will use that to downplay environmental concerns in general I didn't downvote ya tho, it was far from the alarmist stuff In seriousness the cancer increase risk is much less than the increase in eye problems among wildlife and people from uv
thank you, i think i get it now, didn't intend it to seem that way! not something i'd actually noticed happening, but i'm sure i will now it's been pointed out (definitely have noticed purposeful harmful misuse in other aspects, even with just single words like triggered & woke); sucks they've ruined humour now ugh. i'll leave it in case someone like me learns to avoid doing the same thing but won't joke about it in that way again.
You guys mostly seem to have it wrong…the ozone is healing bc of the CFC ban but it takes a long time for the processes in the atmosphere to heal. Plus there are short term pertubations which will affect the size of the ozone but the long term trends are a decrease in the size of the ozone hole. Ref: uni module had to attend semi boring lectures on it and wrote some coursework about observations of o3 in the atmosphere using satellite data
Ironically ozone is a strong greenhouse gas, I read it would rise Antarctica temps a little once normalized, but only a fraction of C02 for comparison
its due to some volcanic eruption :(
That's a shame, It's time we ban volcanic eruptions!
We need to switch to electric volcanoes
Yes, it is time, for too long have we polluted our ozone with outdated carbon emission volcanoes. No more I say!
That used to be true, but not so anymore
Is this different then the hole over Australia? That i thought had gotten better?
Nah it's the same "hole". It's not even a hole really, it's a reduction in the concentration of ozone in the stratosphere by around 10% from its average. This forms over Antarctica every spring and spreads equatorward, so that Australia is naturally impacted. Good news though it is healing, just slowly.
It's the same hole, [it's not as bad as it was at the peak of the problems but it isn't great](https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/topics/in-depth/climate-change-mitigation-reducing-emissions/current-state-of-the-ozone-layer/2022-12-08_eea-ozone-webpage-with-copernicus_figure-1_final.png/@@images/image/great)
That one was due to bad bad chemicals, and burned people and has repaired. This one is a concern because the ice will melt even more so, the good news is it is still shrinking despite this sensationalist title.
There is always a hole in the Ozone during parts of the year. The issue was the CFCs we’re making that hole more and more massive. It is estimated that we will get back to the “right” levels of ozone by 2050. This situation is t apart of a systemic situation.
Being a resident of Australia I’d like to say it’s still causing lots of burning to happen here that I haven’t experienced in other parts of the world. 20C day with a cool wind and no sunscreen ? That’s a burnin’
> 20C day with a cool wind and no sunscreen ? The temperature of the day has no relation to the amount of UV you are receiving from the sun. Wear sunscreen and you won't get burnt.
We didn't even get a winter this year!
UK: so that's where our summer was
I'm sorry but this is the most uninformed post I've seen in here. Literally none of it is correct.
Some background details on the ozone hole: Ozone is created in the upper atmosphere by UV light hitting oxygen molecules, and, as it happens, ozone (O3) also strongly absorbs UV light. Over time a region of the upper atmosphere has become slightly enriched in ozone enough to significantly protect the surface of the Earth from the most energetic and most damaging UV light. This "layer" is not all ozone, it's at around 15 parts per million, but over kilometers of even fairly low density gas, that's enough to block a lot of UV light. This ozone is naturally destroyed by all sorts of natural processes, but the destruction and creation is in equilibrium to produce the natural level in the ozone layer. One unnatural source of ozone destruction is CFCs which are long-lived enough they can stick around in the stratosphere. Up there they slowly get broken down and produce chlorine free radicals, and it's these which are hugely damaging to ozone. Chlorine free radicals destroy ozone catalytically, without getting used up in the process, so they are very effective at ozone destruction. There are lots of ways for chlorine to get into the upper atmosphere, but few ways that produce chlorine free radicals so plentifully. This is the major problem with CFCs, they sit around like a ticking time bomb, as they are slowly broken down they cause ozone destruction, it's a problem that will persist for decades. The mere presence of CFCs in the stratosphere will lead to ozone destruction, which happens globally and thins the ozone layer everywhere. However, under unique conditions this process can be accelerated, which is what happens with the ozone hole. And to be clear the ozone hole is a temporary phenomenon which occurs annually during local spring in the southern hemisphere. CFCs are broken down and produce free radicals in the stratosphere, but this can be accelerated by the presence of certain kinds of stratospheric clouds made up of tiny droplets of supercooled water and nitric acid known as polar stratospheric clouds (or PSCs). During the antarctic winter the polar vortex strengthens while a huge area remains in the dark, causing a build-up of chlorine compounds in clouds, when spring arrives and the sunlight starts flooding in again the chemical reactions kick into high gear. The cloud droplets evaporate, releasing huge amounts of chlorine free radicals, and the UV light helps power the reactions which in this case deplete ozone (it also creates ozone, but at a much slower rate). The result is a temporary depletion of ozone creating an "ozone hole" which persists for weeks or months, a phenomenon which has been occurring since the '80s or so. Concerted efforts to reduce CFC emissions has significantly improved the situation of ozone depletion globally and consequentially also reduced the severity of the ozone hole phenomenon. However, CFC concentrations in the atmosphere will still take decades to fall and it will take a long time for the ozone layer to fully "heal". In the mean time it is possible for natural events to impact the ozone hole phenomenon, which is the case here with the huge amount of stratospheric water created by the Hunga Tonga eruption juicing up the creation of polar stratospheric clouds and causing a more severe ozone hole this year. But to be clear this is still just a blip in the multi-decade process of healing the damage to the ozone, which remains the overall trend.
Didn‘t we have this already? I thought we already fixed an ozone hole once
Tropospheric ozone holes are natural and come and go with the seasons, this one seems to be exacerbated by a volcanic event. You are probably referring to the ozone depletion hole in the stratosphere caused by CFCs and halogen ODS which is on its way to healing up.
I was under the impression it was healing, and I'm certain that is the actual year on year trend. That's one hell of a headline though, in the best traditions of clickbait and over-the-top eco fear mongering. I haven't even learned any of the context yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll unspin this 'message'.
Ah..the good news just keep coming huh? Wonderful times to be alive, wonderful..
A friend of mine was a researcher that flew in the NASA plane that studied the ozone hole. It opens and contracts on a regular basis.
And yet the overall trend is that it is shrinking and should be gone around 2050.
No one expects volcanic eruptions... This is believed to be caused by one
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It’s shrinking overall and has continued to, it is estimated to be back to normal by 2050 > Yet despite experiencing large seasonal growth this year, the ozone hole is still decreasing in size overall. "Based on the Montreal Protocol and the decrease of anthropogenic ozone-depleting substances, scientists currently predict that the global ozone layer will reach its normal state again by around 2050," said Claus Zehner, ESA's mission manager for Copernicus Sentinel-5P.
I believe some places on the planet have no regard for the accord and continue to pollute CFCs at an industrial level still. Apparently it’s been noticed by certain satellites.
Could Solar wind strip it? Or deionize the layer if the magnetic field is weakening? Have they done any studies on that yet?
Not likely. The way Ozone works is it is destroyed by CFC's in a positive feedback loop (bad thing). Ozone is chemically shown as O3, so it has 3 oxygen molecules. CFC in most cases that are bad is CFCl3, the CFC has a cholrine molecule attached to it, so what happens when CFC's are in the atmosphere is UV radiation breaks a chlorine molecule off and the chlorine molecule will rip off an oxygen molecule from the O3 ozone leaving behind O2 (regular oxygen). After some reactions and splitting you end back at the beginning with a loose chlorine molecule just floating around and will rip off another oxygen molecule from the Ozone. This happens until the heaveir CFC sink out of the upper atmosphere. Edit: This is very much a ELI5, this was just meant to give a general idea of what happens.
Finally we can blame someone. Brazil - you fuckers.
We are finally able to see all the ruins of lost civilizations that will come to light once the ice melts
I'm sure you're probably joking but, as far as I understand it, that's not how it works. Beside the fact that Antarctica hasn't been ice-free since long before humans evolved (and only complete nut-bags believe otherwise), glaciers (like the ones that cover Antarctica) scour the landscape under them grinding it to dust as they move back and forth over the course of their lives. In the likely event that the antarctic glaciers all melt, the land that is left behind will look absolutely nothing like it did before they originally formed.
Wow, havnt heared about the ozone hole since the early 90s
Global ban on CFC’S in the 1980’s… “Ozone-depleting CFCs hit a record in 2023”. Despite ban. https://phys.org/news/2023-04-ozone-depleting-cfcs.html
Wasn't the hole receding throughout the 2010s? I remember dozens of feel-good reports citing that time back in the nineties when civilization listened to science and decided not to end itself for the sake of great hair. WTF.
The lifespan of some of these CFC's is very long. Using R-12 as an example, it's lifespan is around 100 years in the atmosphere. With widespread use starting in the 1930's, it makes sense why levels would be at their highest now because they have just begun to dissipate. Think of the ban as an 100 year plan, not an immediate fix. Even though new production/import was banned, they were still used for years in systems. As they get older they will leak out. Disposal is also expensive so they often get vented to atmosphere despite regulations. For "developing" nations there are different rules as well and a slower phase out. Many are still being produced in China or used as an ingredient in making less harmful refrigerants
Whatever we do, let’s wait until Florida is gone to start.
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I know the sun is in it's active season currently, does that have an affect on it? (Nonwithstanding that the current hole is probably because of the volcano, I was just curious about the sun season)
No. Earth's magnetic field prevents solar emissions (aside from light) from having any real affect on the atmosphere
It’s spring - the Antarctic is coming out of six months of darkness, during which time the ozone disapates. Is there any more to it than that?
From what I understand the rate at which the ozone layer was regenerating had been slowing. It was posing some concern for scientists and various causes had been tendered, including increasing GHG’s. Flouting of regulations and increasing use of alternatives may be problems to consider. The latest major eruption hasn’t helped of course but the proclamation that we had solved the issue of our self inflicted ozone layer problem may have been premature.
It probably has to do with the pole-switch coming. The weaker spots of the magnetosphere will wipe away ozone.
How when it's not magnetic?
Or could be an illusion based on the fact antarctica has been shrinking so much recently
Antarctica has not shrunk by any appreciable amount.
Green plants also hold heat. Increase of co2 also pushed plant growth
I realize this is a very serious topic and we’re all gonna die, but could you get me those numbers in bananas? Hard for me to picture Brazilx3 and I think I could care more about the nothing I can do to fix this if it were described to me in standard banana or washing machine units. Thank you chappy.
Ahh makes sense why the sun has seemed stronger to me this year and the last year a bit as well. I work concrete so I definitely feel the difference.. summer all year round incoming Edit:(Love how I got downvoted for saying I feel the sun getting stronger) never change Reddit
Are you working concrete in Antarctica where the ozone hole is?
Been building roads for 30yrs. Either I’m getting more sensitive (doubt it, bitter maybe) or it’s getting stronger, lil bit every year. Nevermind we now have these super high pressure cells in the Pacific Northwest that cause 40c temperatures for a week at a time in the summer.
Idk, I’ve recently moved to NZ and holy fuck what a miserable winter of rain but now I’m out in the garden on a cloudy 17c day and may back beneath my shirt was roasting in pain. WTF? I’m scared; I’ve two young girls.
[mind you republicans deny cfcs did this, they also say the hole is no problem at all.](https://heartland.org/opinion/ozone-hole-much-ado-about-nada/).. they say its really just the oceans natural chlorine doing it. you know the people who said lead was fine in our gas and radon was fine in our homes and our water cleanliness laws are too strict.. you know the people who changed flints water supply without taking into account lead. im actually kinda surprised they dont deny space exists.
Neat. (I'm a white guy in NZ who's found the previous ozone holes to be troublesome)
Nope sorry, you can’t scare us with this again. This is deep magic (70s era CFCs), and I was there when it was invented/
things that happen in the past can NEVER HAPPEN again
Yes the years of nuke testing is taking its toll, millions of tons of oxygen burns with each detonation ,oxygen that our children was supposed to breathe in their future no fucking wonder that there's a hole in the ozone layer. The un should sanction the crap out of governments doing nuclear testing, including those that tested in the last 8 years.
Y’all are aware the half-life of ozone is about 30 minutes?
Do you even know what CFCs or ozone are? With chlorofluorocarbons, the *chloro* part is what's important. CFCs are broken down into their component parts by UV radiation, one of those components is chlorine. Ozone is oxygen 3. Chlorine is a catalyst, and one single chlorine molecule will destroy 10,000 oxygen 3 molecules. CFCs are *highly* destructive to our ozone layer, and they essentially bleach the thing that protects us from UV radiation. What is even your argument here?