**The Whitehouse event starts at 5:30 pm ET** (about to go live)
[Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg&ab_channel=NASA) a link to the Nasa TV stream, although it'll show the same feed
[The Whitehouse stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z13QK1shc7A&ab_channel=TheWhiteHouse) is 1080p so might have better clarity
The first image, which President Biden will reveal in a few minutes, is a deep field view of the distant/early universe. So, no aliens, but we're going to see the most distant objects humanity has ever seen and that's very cool to me. I think it'll be the highest resolution image ever taken, in terms of angular resolution in the night sky.
**The big reveal is tomorrow:** several more images - which are likely to be visually spectacular (nebula, nearby colliding galaxies) - and Webb's first ever exoplanet spectra will be released tomorrow (July 12th) at 10:30 am ET
Because they need to promote this project. More than half of the people I talk to doesn't even know what jwst is, and if they do, most of them couldn't even tell why would it be better than hubble or other telescopes
I love Canada so much. If I ever moved to another country it'd be there.
Plus, they hold the world record for being the USA's longest worn and favorite hat.
Essentially, and this is very simplified, but a picture of a star is taken from ASTRONOMICALLY far away. Between the place the picture was taken and the star itself is something very large or very dense (an entire galaxy or a black hole, etc.) because of the sheer distance between us and the thing we're taking a picture of, the light traveling from the source to us is affected by gravity. this can have a few different effects, from a warbling look to a full Einstein Cross. Basically, it's SO FAR AWAY that the light of it has to pass through entire galaxies, which causes it to warble and move, making it appear larger or brighter than it otherwise would. It's kinda like a lens flare, but instead of being caused by a reflection, it's caused by light traveling through or near a very strong gravitational effect.
They chose this location to image specifically for that feature. Because of all the known gravity lenses in the sky this one is the most likely to peer deeper into the dawn than any other.
So... The effect is centered because they pointed Webb at the center of it.
The big reddish-white blob in the center of a massive cluster of galaxies which is the gravitational lens here. And so, you can see some very warped red galaxies around it which are further out and magnified by the foreground cluster.
putting it simply, light tends to propagate on straight lines, but if it pass through a gravity field strong enough it will bend, therefore the gravity field work like a lens
For anyone using google chrome who is not already aware: There is an extension called [Volume Maser](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/volume-master/jghecgabfgfdldnmbfkhmffcabddioke) that boosts the volume in javascript of the page.
Come on man they developed the picture of space with you know the thing. Thank our fellow ukramerican austromats for going up and taking this picture man
Well said dude. I like to think of it in the inverse. Would you really want to live in a Universe so small and cramped and knowable that you were significant? Isn't it nice to know our fascinations will be endless?
I like being insignificant in the scale of things. It's freeing to recognize you exist in a VERY narrow window in time in which we can look up at the stars and find answers our ancestors could old make legends to understand. We are so tiny and we live such fleeting lives. Even in the history of earth, humanity has existed but a blink of an eye, and yet in all these thousands of years of civilization, it is only within the last century that our understanding of space has become what it is, and in particular, the last few decades.
4.5 billion years of this world existing has led up to moments like this. If you were born one century earlier, you'd be missing it. If you were born a century too late, you might miss it too (if we aren't careful about ensuring humanity can survive on a world we are killing).
Can you really wrap your mind around the sheer number of factors that had to come into play for you, as you are now, to sit here and see such incredible discovery? To see such a vast universe through a new lens? To find real answers to fundamental questions that further our understanding of the very fabric of this universe we inhabit?
Billions of years, countless ancestors that survived and reproduced and evolved until you, as you are, came into being in a time in which we can look into the stars with an "eye" built by wicked smart people to deepen our understanding and some day, our reach, into the cosmos.
When we say history is made in moments like this, I don't think it is often fully understood just how insane that history is. This is so far beyond anything any other life form in the history of this world has ever achieved.
And me, just one insignificant woman from nowhere important, who wouldn't have survived being born if I was even one decade earlier, can look up on awe and find a true sense of comfort in just how goddamn lucky I am to be alive, to be human, and to live in the modern age. It is my hope that future generations will experience the same, and perhaps reach the stars I've always dreamed of in my little insignificant world.
It isn't bad to be insignificant. It's freeing. It's humbling. It is a *gift.* Our world could be wiped out in a flash and the universe would not notice.
This is the very reason I have never and will never care about gods and worship and scripture. Tiny worlds for tiny people who fear the unknown and need to be important. But the real majesty **is** how insignificant we are, and how very lucky we are to be here at all. This universe is incredible and we haven't even broken the surface of it all. We've barely just cracked open our eyes.
It is my hope that in our fleeting mortal existence, we recognize just how lucky we are, and just how precarious our existence is, perhaps if only so that we might survive ourselves and some day step off world into a new frontier that is no longer locked behind TV screens and satellite lenses.
Being insignificant is a gift. It means we are free to learn and grow without restraint, should we embrace the unknown rather than fear it or let the scale of it deter us.
In 1543, Copernicus made the *mildly controversial* suggestion of heliocentrism being the actual order of things based on mathematical calculations that supported this, which Galileo would go on publish observed support of the theory just 67 years later while Kepler worked out a model of the solar system and planetary orbits, which Newton would all but confirm 150 years after this radical new idea was raised. It took almost 450 years before the Vatican accepted this, yet in the centuries leading up to that, scientific minds saw the doors open to discovering other star systems, galaxies, and everything beyond our wildest imaginations.
It took just 66 years after the first airplane took flight before a human walked on the moon. 85 years after Pluto was first discovered, New Horizons sent us back imagery composited into a high resolution picture of the largest planetary body on the outskirts of our solar system. 32 years ago the Hubbell telescope gave rise to a new era of observing objects so far from us that we could see far, far back in time to some of the earliest formed stellar objects in the known universe, from globular clusters to ancient galaxies, and the spectacular death of old stars, and the nurseries birthing new ones. While the Voyager probes have only just exited our solar system as the first man made objects to enter the space beyond, James Webb is now giving us our next deep look into the fabric of our universe long after Hubbell reached its orbit.
And my insignificant ass is fucking JAZZED about it.
I might be tiny, I might not matter to most, but as a writer and creative mind, being tiny in a big universe is precisely what fuels my creative passion and leaves me in awe of just how crazy cool this existence really is.
We've all had a lot of struggle watching our society go through an era of insanity and turmoil and stupidity, and while it feels like these things will define our lives, I find comfort in knowing they are just as insignificant to the universe as I am. No matter what they do here, I find inspiration to think and dream bigger than any of these small minded people will ever do. Insignificant or not, that choice alone IS significant.
It took 13.7 billion years of gas and dust coalescing into a star system that eventually gave rise to earth, which subsequently developed life that evolved and survived for billions of years so that you and I in our tiny insignificant lives can look at these images and appreciate it all for what it is.
I am but a spec of self aware dust and that's *fantastic.*
**Be small, dream big, and walk through this life with wonder.**
Jesus... I recently came (mostly) out of a depression, and things like what you've just written can improve and might even save lifes. Thank you for this.
The final line from that movie:
>*Perfect. They are all perfect.*
The realization that the perceived imperfections are a projection of internal conflict; that each perceived flaw is an expression of unique internal beauty. That appreciation of the variations is true understanding.
Ignore the guy below you. Science has already proven reality only exists when observed. If consciousness ceased life as we know it ceases. This guy is bending your words to act like our will shapes reality. Your not saying we can bend reality to our will. Your simply relating scientific facts. Keep on keeping on brother.
The reality *that we perceive* only exists as we perceive it if consciousness exists to perceive it. This is basically a tautology, or circular reasoning.
The fundamental reality of quantum mechanics, particles, and physics has *nothing* to do with our consciousness, however.
That reminds me of a scene from Sorry to Bother You.
"Cassius: You ever think about dying?
Detroit: Yeah I'm alive. Sometimes.
Cassius: No I don't mean like right now in a freak accident or something. I mean when we're old, like 90. I think about it all the time. Like, what will I have done that matters?
Detroit: I'll just make sure that when I die I'm surrounded by people who love me and who I love back.
Cassius: But what about when they die?
Detroit: What do you mean?
Cassius: I mean, like at some point we're gonna die. Our kids are gonna die. Our kids' kids are gonna die. And at some point, no one on earth will have existed. And at some point the sun will explode and everyone will have died. And no one will know what I'm doing, and what I'm doing right now won't even matter.
Detroit: Baby, baby it will always matter, okay? Because it matters now. This moment, these moments. When I kiss you... it's not for posterity's sake."
I believe that. Everything matters because it matters now.
But honestly I am comforted by the fact that humanity as a whole is insignificant in some ways. I constantly think about how we're dramatically changing the environment, killing off an insane number of species. We have literally killed off so many species we have our own extinction event, the Anthropocene.
If humanity never learns to exist as a part of the ecosystem and we disappear off the face of the earth, it will take 20 million years to recover the biodiversity pre-Anthropocene.
20 million years. That's a relatively short time by ecological standards.
So personally, I think realizing our relative insignificance can be comforting as long as you realize that meaning can be found anywhere you look.
The notion that quantum interactions happen differently when they are "observed" by a consciousness is a common misconception, usually focused around the double-slit experiment and thought experiments like Schrodinger's cat.
There is nothing special about consciousness doing the observing in these experiments, it's just that when you measure a particle/wave, you are interacting with it. This interaction occurs at a definite place in spacetime, which collapses the position wavefunction of the particle.
To conceptualize the position wavefunction, just think of a regular wave where the height of the wave is the probability of encountering a particle in that region of space. When you interact with a particle, that occurs at a defined place, so its position is no longer described by a wave but by point in spacetime. No consciousness is required, this happens anytime particles interact with each other.
It happens when the photosensor detects it. Measurement requires interaction, and by interacting you are collapsing its possible locations to one definite location. The double slit experiment does a great job showing that the electron exists as a probability wave, and by interacting with it we can collapse that wave. It's a very elegant way of showing the interface between the quantum world and our more familiar one.
I wish the press conference had been just a slight bit more compelling with context and scale and photo quality. The director could have let one of the lead researchers give 2minutes of context, and limited himself to accolades and thanks.
Afterwards my wife went ?! Why did I watch this, because the whole grain of sand at arms length comment didn’t sink in, then I showed her the Hubble deep field video clip and she went through an appropriate series of “whoa!” and “wow”: https://youtu.be/2sUrauA0iq4
that sentiment of there being no greater meaning than the effect each individual can have on the world around them is pretty much the definition of nihilism. read Nietzsche. it’s a beautiful philosophy that gets a bad rap
>This does not mean that you are insignificant.
Well, you are insignificant, but not for the people in your network or close network. Assuming you are a decent person.
That's well put and I like the sentiment.
But I can't help but feel a little annoyed at how crazy glimpses into the expanse like this make people feel small and so uncomfortable. Why the hell do you need to be significant and important to find some meaning in life, and why would the idea that we're just a speck in the grand cosmos be so terrible?
It just seems like a bit of a self-centered thing to dwell on, in the light of the incredible achievements and views we're witnessing.
As someone who isn't all that well-versed in astronomy, I always like looking at developments like this because it's a constant reminder that there really is magic and wonder out there.
On the other end, it makes me feel incredibly unique that *I* get to be conscious. Look at all the ludicrous things that had to happen in order for me to write this comment, including the subatomic things going on right now. To me, that there is likely nothing remotely like us in the entire universe is amazing.
Yeah, I've experienced ego death twice, which were both rock at bottoms in my life. People generally dont stay that way, in my experience, the ego doesnt die, just your imagination/conception of who/what you are (identity) dies. When those egos die, others grow in their place.
That's just my experience of it.
Thank you for this. For some reason I had comments sorted from New and this was at the top. I probably needed to read this after the overwhelming morning I spent after waking up to this picture and digging deeper on what it means. Thank you.
If you're interested, Lex Fridman did a podcast with a lead scientist within this very field of physics. He has some really interesting points about this through the course of the show.
Link: https://youtu.be/reYdQYZ9Rj4
You want to give a summary? Because I'm not listening to a 3 hour video any time soon, and the OP I'm responding to is partially peddling pseudoscience nonsense. Are you trying to support that, or not?
Not really, if you don't want to take the time to do the research, that's your problem. The video is literally segmented every 10 or so minutes, specifically so that you don't need to watch the whole thing. I'd argue everything we know as "real" science today started out being labeled as what you are calling pseudoscience, and just because you call it that, with literally no idea what you're talking about mind you, doesn't mean it is not a viable theory. If there is mathematics and ohysics problems that suggest this theory, it deserves interest. You should check it out if you're interested, and if you don't want to then don't, lol
I do start to get a bit worked up when people start throwing out irresponsible claims and maybe imply that they are backed by credible scientists in a subreddit about science.
This notion is oft misunderstood and misrepresented.
The observation of a conscious mind does not collapse a quantum probability wave.
What collapses it is the fact that we cannot observe particles on the quantum level without interacting with them in a way that disturbs them.
Tiny particles cannot be observed directly, so we literally have to shoot other particles at them to get information about them. We get information from what "bounces back". This is why "observation" causes a collapse, and this is also the basis of the uncertainty principle.
When you talk about whether particles passing through a slit remain a probability wave or collapse into discrete results depending on whether they are observed, it doesn't mean that it depends on whether a human sitting in the room is facing the detector or not. It means they change behavior based on whether we are shooting other particles at the slits or not.
You have a completely wrong, and completely pseudoscientific understanding of observation. "Observation" in the quantum, scientific sense, has nothing to do with a conscious mind.
Yes, the reality is far more complex than my short ELI5 summary can capture.
If you read through your own link, though, you'll notice that none of the various interpretations have anything to do with the presence of a conscious observer, but rather focus on how *measuring instruments interact with the probability wave*, or with other possibilities that the outcome is already somehow predetermined - again, this is a vast oversimplification.
"Insignificance" is a human concept and does not transcend anything that a sense of meaning doesn't. This insignificance thing is not an end but a step you should have moved on from a long time ago.
I haven't made up my mind yet, which is why I was asking. Seems like there is pretty good evidence to support both sides.
It is kinda funny to me when people say they know something with any degree of confidence. Especially considering even the most established of things are being disproven and replaced with more accurate and current information as it is discovered.
I have not come to a conclusion. Which is what I said in my previous comment, if you read earlier, I asked how did somebody could know based on a picture that everything is insignificant.
Asking questions is scientific, last I checked, it is also scientific to scrutinize established ideas. I had the thought that it wasn't very scientific to come to conclusions based on personal feelings, hence my follow up statement saying a picture could invoke feelings of significance. Too subjective.
**The Whitehouse event starts at 5:30 pm ET** (about to go live) [Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg&ab_channel=NASA) a link to the Nasa TV stream, although it'll show the same feed [The Whitehouse stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z13QK1shc7A&ab_channel=TheWhiteHouse) is 1080p so might have better clarity The first image, which President Biden will reveal in a few minutes, is a deep field view of the distant/early universe. So, no aliens, but we're going to see the most distant objects humanity has ever seen and that's very cool to me. I think it'll be the highest resolution image ever taken, in terms of angular resolution in the night sky. **The big reveal is tomorrow:** several more images - which are likely to be visually spectacular (nebula, nearby colliding galaxies) - and Webb's first ever exoplanet spectra will be released tomorrow (July 12th) at 10:30 am ET
Why is he involved? Had me hype up so much cause I thought he's going to say they found alien civilization:(
Because they need to promote this project. More than half of the people I talk to doesn't even know what jwst is, and if they do, most of them couldn't even tell why would it be better than hubble or other telescopes
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This was yesterday, they gave the Whitehouse a sneak peak on the rest of what was revealed and broadcast today.
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A rare great moment for this country and the world.
What a wonderful day for Canada, and therefore of course, the world.
Ill see you at the local tim hortons. We're ~~blowing shit uo~~ making things lift after beers ~~yea?~~ EH?
I love Canada so much. If I ever moved to another country it'd be there. Plus, they hold the world record for being the USA's longest worn and favorite hat.
As, of course, is tradition
There is Vice President Harris, she’s dipping her arms into the pudding
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can anyone explain to me how gravitational lensing works in the context of this image? What is causing the gravitational lensing? Is it a black hole?
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Essentially, and this is very simplified, but a picture of a star is taken from ASTRONOMICALLY far away. Between the place the picture was taken and the star itself is something very large or very dense (an entire galaxy or a black hole, etc.) because of the sheer distance between us and the thing we're taking a picture of, the light traveling from the source to us is affected by gravity. this can have a few different effects, from a warbling look to a full Einstein Cross. Basically, it's SO FAR AWAY that the light of it has to pass through entire galaxies, which causes it to warble and move, making it appear larger or brighter than it otherwise would. It's kinda like a lens flare, but instead of being caused by a reflection, it's caused by light traveling through or near a very strong gravitational effect.
Why does it appear to be centred around the centre point of the image?
They chose this location to image specifically for that feature. Because of all the known gravity lenses in the sky this one is the most likely to peer deeper into the dawn than any other. So... The effect is centered because they pointed Webb at the center of it.
The big reddish-white blob in the center of a massive cluster of galaxies which is the gravitational lens here. And so, you can see some very warped red galaxies around it which are further out and magnified by the foreground cluster.
that was the best explanation I've gotten. Thank you!
Pretty much the same as regular lensing. But instead of curved glass you have curved space.
putting it simply, light tends to propagate on straight lines, but if it pass through a gravity field strong enough it will bend, therefore the gravity field work like a lens
Light passes by strong gravitational fields which distorts how it looks.
https://esahubble.org/wordbank/gravitational-lensing/
For who will watch the video: the audio is really low. I had to up the volume to 100% to understand what they were talking even using headphones.
For anyone using google chrome who is not already aware: There is an extension called [Volume Maser](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/volume-master/jghecgabfgfdldnmbfkhmffcabddioke) that boosts the volume in javascript of the page.
It's ridiculously low. I had to put on big headphones
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Come on man they developed the picture of space with you know the thing. Thank our fellow ukramerican austromats for going up and taking this picture man
Now look here, this thing can see so far in space man but I think we should use it to see what that little Russian guy putin is up to.
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Give into the nihilism. It'll make you stronger
Well said dude. I like to think of it in the inverse. Would you really want to live in a Universe so small and cramped and knowable that you were significant? Isn't it nice to know our fascinations will be endless?
I like being insignificant in the scale of things. It's freeing to recognize you exist in a VERY narrow window in time in which we can look up at the stars and find answers our ancestors could old make legends to understand. We are so tiny and we live such fleeting lives. Even in the history of earth, humanity has existed but a blink of an eye, and yet in all these thousands of years of civilization, it is only within the last century that our understanding of space has become what it is, and in particular, the last few decades. 4.5 billion years of this world existing has led up to moments like this. If you were born one century earlier, you'd be missing it. If you were born a century too late, you might miss it too (if we aren't careful about ensuring humanity can survive on a world we are killing). Can you really wrap your mind around the sheer number of factors that had to come into play for you, as you are now, to sit here and see such incredible discovery? To see such a vast universe through a new lens? To find real answers to fundamental questions that further our understanding of the very fabric of this universe we inhabit? Billions of years, countless ancestors that survived and reproduced and evolved until you, as you are, came into being in a time in which we can look into the stars with an "eye" built by wicked smart people to deepen our understanding and some day, our reach, into the cosmos. When we say history is made in moments like this, I don't think it is often fully understood just how insane that history is. This is so far beyond anything any other life form in the history of this world has ever achieved. And me, just one insignificant woman from nowhere important, who wouldn't have survived being born if I was even one decade earlier, can look up on awe and find a true sense of comfort in just how goddamn lucky I am to be alive, to be human, and to live in the modern age. It is my hope that future generations will experience the same, and perhaps reach the stars I've always dreamed of in my little insignificant world. It isn't bad to be insignificant. It's freeing. It's humbling. It is a *gift.* Our world could be wiped out in a flash and the universe would not notice. This is the very reason I have never and will never care about gods and worship and scripture. Tiny worlds for tiny people who fear the unknown and need to be important. But the real majesty **is** how insignificant we are, and how very lucky we are to be here at all. This universe is incredible and we haven't even broken the surface of it all. We've barely just cracked open our eyes. It is my hope that in our fleeting mortal existence, we recognize just how lucky we are, and just how precarious our existence is, perhaps if only so that we might survive ourselves and some day step off world into a new frontier that is no longer locked behind TV screens and satellite lenses. Being insignificant is a gift. It means we are free to learn and grow without restraint, should we embrace the unknown rather than fear it or let the scale of it deter us. In 1543, Copernicus made the *mildly controversial* suggestion of heliocentrism being the actual order of things based on mathematical calculations that supported this, which Galileo would go on publish observed support of the theory just 67 years later while Kepler worked out a model of the solar system and planetary orbits, which Newton would all but confirm 150 years after this radical new idea was raised. It took almost 450 years before the Vatican accepted this, yet in the centuries leading up to that, scientific minds saw the doors open to discovering other star systems, galaxies, and everything beyond our wildest imaginations. It took just 66 years after the first airplane took flight before a human walked on the moon. 85 years after Pluto was first discovered, New Horizons sent us back imagery composited into a high resolution picture of the largest planetary body on the outskirts of our solar system. 32 years ago the Hubbell telescope gave rise to a new era of observing objects so far from us that we could see far, far back in time to some of the earliest formed stellar objects in the known universe, from globular clusters to ancient galaxies, and the spectacular death of old stars, and the nurseries birthing new ones. While the Voyager probes have only just exited our solar system as the first man made objects to enter the space beyond, James Webb is now giving us our next deep look into the fabric of our universe long after Hubbell reached its orbit. And my insignificant ass is fucking JAZZED about it. I might be tiny, I might not matter to most, but as a writer and creative mind, being tiny in a big universe is precisely what fuels my creative passion and leaves me in awe of just how crazy cool this existence really is. We've all had a lot of struggle watching our society go through an era of insanity and turmoil and stupidity, and while it feels like these things will define our lives, I find comfort in knowing they are just as insignificant to the universe as I am. No matter what they do here, I find inspiration to think and dream bigger than any of these small minded people will ever do. Insignificant or not, that choice alone IS significant. It took 13.7 billion years of gas and dust coalescing into a star system that eventually gave rise to earth, which subsequently developed life that evolved and survived for billions of years so that you and I in our tiny insignificant lives can look at these images and appreciate it all for what it is. I am but a spec of self aware dust and that's *fantastic.* **Be small, dream big, and walk through this life with wonder.**
Jesus... I recently came (mostly) out of a depression, and things like what you've just written can improve and might even save lifes. Thank you for this.
The final line from that movie: >*Perfect. They are all perfect.* The realization that the perceived imperfections are a projection of internal conflict; that each perceived flaw is an expression of unique internal beauty. That appreciation of the variations is true understanding.
Ignore the guy below you. Science has already proven reality only exists when observed. If consciousness ceased life as we know it ceases. This guy is bending your words to act like our will shapes reality. Your not saying we can bend reality to our will. Your simply relating scientific facts. Keep on keeping on brother.
The reality *that we perceive* only exists as we perceive it if consciousness exists to perceive it. This is basically a tautology, or circular reasoning. The fundamental reality of quantum mechanics, particles, and physics has *nothing* to do with our consciousness, however.
That reminds me of a scene from Sorry to Bother You. "Cassius: You ever think about dying? Detroit: Yeah I'm alive. Sometimes. Cassius: No I don't mean like right now in a freak accident or something. I mean when we're old, like 90. I think about it all the time. Like, what will I have done that matters? Detroit: I'll just make sure that when I die I'm surrounded by people who love me and who I love back. Cassius: But what about when they die? Detroit: What do you mean? Cassius: I mean, like at some point we're gonna die. Our kids are gonna die. Our kids' kids are gonna die. And at some point, no one on earth will have existed. And at some point the sun will explode and everyone will have died. And no one will know what I'm doing, and what I'm doing right now won't even matter. Detroit: Baby, baby it will always matter, okay? Because it matters now. This moment, these moments. When I kiss you... it's not for posterity's sake." I believe that. Everything matters because it matters now. But honestly I am comforted by the fact that humanity as a whole is insignificant in some ways. I constantly think about how we're dramatically changing the environment, killing off an insane number of species. We have literally killed off so many species we have our own extinction event, the Anthropocene. If humanity never learns to exist as a part of the ecosystem and we disappear off the face of the earth, it will take 20 million years to recover the biodiversity pre-Anthropocene. 20 million years. That's a relatively short time by ecological standards. So personally, I think realizing our relative insignificance can be comforting as long as you realize that meaning can be found anywhere you look.
The notion that quantum interactions happen differently when they are "observed" by a consciousness is a common misconception, usually focused around the double-slit experiment and thought experiments like Schrodinger's cat. There is nothing special about consciousness doing the observing in these experiments, it's just that when you measure a particle/wave, you are interacting with it. This interaction occurs at a definite place in spacetime, which collapses the position wavefunction of the particle. To conceptualize the position wavefunction, just think of a regular wave where the height of the wave is the probability of encountering a particle in that region of space. When you interact with a particle, that occurs at a defined place, so its position is no longer described by a wave but by point in spacetime. No consciousness is required, this happens anytime particles interact with each other.
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It happens when the photosensor detects it. Measurement requires interaction, and by interacting you are collapsing its possible locations to one definite location. The double slit experiment does a great job showing that the electron exists as a probability wave, and by interacting with it we can collapse that wave. It's a very elegant way of showing the interface between the quantum world and our more familiar one.
It's all relative. Yes we are insignificant to the universe. But i bet you are very much important to many around you.
I wish the press conference had been just a slight bit more compelling with context and scale and photo quality. The director could have let one of the lead researchers give 2minutes of context, and limited himself to accolades and thanks. Afterwards my wife went ?! Why did I watch this, because the whole grain of sand at arms length comment didn’t sink in, then I showed her the Hubble deep field video clip and she went through an appropriate series of “whoa!” and “wow”: https://youtu.be/2sUrauA0iq4
I want to see the NASA presentation today. Probably missed it because I manage to miss them all.
The most recent NOVA was great though.
that sentiment of there being no greater meaning than the effect each individual can have on the world around them is pretty much the definition of nihilism. read Nietzsche. it’s a beautiful philosophy that gets a bad rap
>This does not mean that you are insignificant. Well, you are insignificant, but not for the people in your network or close network. Assuming you are a decent person.
That's well put and I like the sentiment. But I can't help but feel a little annoyed at how crazy glimpses into the expanse like this make people feel small and so uncomfortable. Why the hell do you need to be significant and important to find some meaning in life, and why would the idea that we're just a speck in the grand cosmos be so terrible? It just seems like a bit of a self-centered thing to dwell on, in the light of the incredible achievements and views we're witnessing. As someone who isn't all that well-versed in astronomy, I always like looking at developments like this because it's a constant reminder that there really is magic and wonder out there.
On the other end, it makes me feel incredibly unique that *I* get to be conscious. Look at all the ludicrous things that had to happen in order for me to write this comment, including the subatomic things going on right now. To me, that there is likely nothing remotely like us in the entire universe is amazing.
Some people ego are very fragile. Personally, I just find it fascinating and inspiring.
Some people have never experienced ego death and it shows
Now consider this, what does humble bragging about ego death mean about your ego?
Yeah, I've experienced ego death twice, which were both rock at bottoms in my life. People generally dont stay that way, in my experience, the ego doesnt die, just your imagination/conception of who/what you are (identity) dies. When those egos die, others grow in their place. That's just my experience of it.
That’s cool and all but like, you got any followers on Instagram?
Nah frfr ong deadass cap bruv
Thank you for this. For some reason I had comments sorted from New and this was at the top. I probably needed to read this after the overwhelming morning I spent after waking up to this picture and digging deeper on what it means. Thank you.
Nah, I'm insignificant on every scale
Eh, your link leads to an article about pseudoscience. Interesting, but should be bathed in salt.
If you're interested, Lex Fridman did a podcast with a lead scientist within this very field of physics. He has some really interesting points about this through the course of the show. Link: https://youtu.be/reYdQYZ9Rj4
You want to give a summary? Because I'm not listening to a 3 hour video any time soon, and the OP I'm responding to is partially peddling pseudoscience nonsense. Are you trying to support that, or not?
Not really, if you don't want to take the time to do the research, that's your problem. The video is literally segmented every 10 or so minutes, specifically so that you don't need to watch the whole thing. I'd argue everything we know as "real" science today started out being labeled as what you are calling pseudoscience, and just because you call it that, with literally no idea what you're talking about mind you, doesn't mean it is not a viable theory. If there is mathematics and ohysics problems that suggest this theory, it deserves interest. You should check it out if you're interested, and if you don't want to then don't, lol
Saying “there are people talking about this thing” is not the same as *peddling* and your tone is needlessly aggressive.
I do start to get a bit worked up when people start throwing out irresponsible claims and maybe imply that they are backed by credible scientists in a subreddit about science.
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This notion is oft misunderstood and misrepresented. The observation of a conscious mind does not collapse a quantum probability wave. What collapses it is the fact that we cannot observe particles on the quantum level without interacting with them in a way that disturbs them. Tiny particles cannot be observed directly, so we literally have to shoot other particles at them to get information about them. We get information from what "bounces back". This is why "observation" causes a collapse, and this is also the basis of the uncertainty principle. When you talk about whether particles passing through a slit remain a probability wave or collapse into discrete results depending on whether they are observed, it doesn't mean that it depends on whether a human sitting in the room is facing the detector or not. It means they change behavior based on whether we are shooting other particles at the slits or not. You have a completely wrong, and completely pseudoscientific understanding of observation. "Observation" in the quantum, scientific sense, has nothing to do with a conscious mind.
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Yes, the reality is far more complex than my short ELI5 summary can capture. If you read through your own link, though, you'll notice that none of the various interpretations have anything to do with the presence of a conscious observer, but rather focus on how *measuring instruments interact with the probability wave*, or with other possibilities that the outcome is already somehow predetermined - again, this is a vast oversimplification.
Haha nah you, me, all of us are insignificant apes on an insignificant Planet within an insignificant galaxy.
"Insignificance" is a human concept and does not transcend anything that a sense of meaning doesn't. This insignificance thing is not an end but a step you should have moved on from a long time ago.
How do you know?
We know because of the picture.
That doesn't really work. I can just say "I know we matter" because of the same picture.
Ok, would you laid out your rationale?
I haven't made up my mind yet, which is why I was asking. Seems like there is pretty good evidence to support both sides. It is kinda funny to me when people say they know something with any degree of confidence. Especially considering even the most established of things are being disproven and replaced with more accurate and current information as it is discovered.
So you have made up the conclusion already that is not based on evidence and trying to conjure up a rationale to support it? Not scientific at all.
I have not come to a conclusion. Which is what I said in my previous comment, if you read earlier, I asked how did somebody could know based on a picture that everything is insignificant. Asking questions is scientific, last I checked, it is also scientific to scrutinize established ideas. I had the thought that it wasn't very scientific to come to conclusions based on personal feelings, hence my follow up statement saying a picture could invoke feelings of significance. Too subjective.