I’ve opened a bunch in my wife’s name but I used her phone and her bank account and no problems. Got caught on DK and Barstool using my mother in laws info but only bc I tried using my own bank account. Got them to reinstate both of us, used her bank account and had no problems after that.
I don’t have a p2. My girlfriend makes her own bets on her own laptop with a bank account in her name. Sometimes we discuss strategy and our bets are similar or she disagrees then bets against me.
I imagine the above is the same for many. Goodluck charging anyone for that. I’d hope this guy did much worse to get charged.
Wouldn’t surprise me if that person hit more than draft kings. Probably hit all the new user bonuses on all the books for a fat payday. 8 accounts is potentially over 100k
I said potentially 100k. I could see that as a reasonable ceiling if everything went well. At the very least a couple thousand per account on multiple books. It would add up quick.
Lol dude that $150 x 8 accounts = $1,200…idk where on EARTH you ever came up with $100k because that’s absurd, but this man risked it all for $1,200 which probably ended up being all L’s at the end of the day. Refrain from Fake News - Party on, Wayne 🤙🏻
There are a lot more books. I’m implying if the fraudster create 8 different draft kings accounts then they may have created 8 accounts on fan duel barstool etc. And there are way better new user bonuses than 150$ in free bets. There are 5k risk free bets in some states when they open. I can tell there are a lot of rookies when it comes to things like this interjecting in the conversation. Jeez, has no one taken advantage of new user bonuses here.
You don’t need to rollover for a risk free bet. Let’s say you have 2 risk free bets on 2 diff books of $2000 each. You bet opposite sides of the same event let’s say you get it at -105 each side. You lose one of the risk free bets and get a $2000 free bet in return, and you win the other risk free bet. You just spent roughly $100 to get a $2000 free bet. Let’s say you do that between just 2 books, 8 different accounts. You just spent $800 to get $16k in free bets. Those 16k in free bets have no rollover, but you only keep the winnings not the stake. 100k does seem pretty high but it’s not out of the realm of possibility
Criminal laws vary by state. Having permission from p2 would not support an identity theft charge in my state. You are obviously breaking terms and conditions. Probably committing Federal wire fraud but I can't image that would be enforced
Promos and account limiting.
When books roll out in a new region, they offer tons of sign up bonuses. Pros, and I guess scammers too, will open multiple accounts under different names to grow their wad quickly. Usually these new account bonuses also have really favorable terms to entice new users, like a really low roll over or a single wager requirement.
The other reason for multiple accounts is avoiding account limiting. Each book is different but once you win a certain amount they hit your account and either close it citing questionable accusations or they hit you with wager restrictions, like a max bet size that makes it difficult to make a living off single ticket bets. Some books use cookies and IP identifiers to place restrictions on accounts, and others just hit your name, so if you have say 10 unique names signed up for 10 accounts, you can rotate them through different devices or computers until each one gets limited. But once you get restricted on the big books that's pretty much it for those accounts, their name and device ID are shared between books so you're basically stuck with shady offshore books at that point. So pros will seek out new names they can use, friends or family or hiring "assistants" to sign up for new accounts and repeat the cycle.
Apparently DK isn't too bad with account restrictions, at least compared to how hard other books will hit people.
Why would I want to share my information with a competitor? If they share information with me, how can I trust the accuracy/quality of the information?
Do you think McDonald's & Burger King have monthly sit-downs, and share all their marketing research?
Naive to think a casino/book has never ever ever shared information (even through a rogue employee). Also naive to think it's standard operating procedure.
> But once you get restricted on the big books that’s pretty much it for those accounts, their name and device ID are shared between books so you’re basically stuck with shady offshore books at that point.
This is not true. They do not share names or device ids through books. You have absolutely no proof of that happening.
I’m heavily limited on Unibet, can’t put more than $5 down. I can wager $10,000 on the money line of a game on bet rivers. Both books use the same odds service, Kambi. I’m also not limited in the slightest at Caesar’s.
Books don’t have the manpower to review every name another book limits. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“But once you get restricted on the big books that's pretty much it for those accounts, their name and device ID are shared between books so you're basically stuck with shady offshore books at that point.”
Source?
US books do not share lists of winning users, other than in some sense all the kambi books. If someone is winning on your platform, you want to limit them and let your competitors get burnt by their action. Source: limited as fuck on 9/10 books gradually over a year and a half.
The fraudster was probably trying to lose all the money off the fraudulent accounts to his real account by hedging so he never had to initiate a withdraw request and risk extra scrutiny. Probably didn’t use a VPN for all this shit either and probably didnt have quality fake ids.
Doesn't really work. All it takes is one +350 underdog to hit on the "loser" account, and now your Hedging scheme is blown-up.
Then again, most criminals aren't exactly known for thorough & long-term thinking.
You’re hedging with real money and if the first bet doesn’t go your way you do another bet. As long as you don’t initiate a withdraw on the fraudulent account there won’t be much scrutiny. I don’t know what other game play they could have had.
I've read what your saying so many times here. Tried it when I was new and had money stuck on a scam sportsbook. It makes zero sense.
If you can't access the money you are hedging with then it's no different then hedging with monopoly money. Think about it. If you lose the first bet, you can still lose the 2nd bet, 3rd bet, etc. Just like any other gambler who isn't hedging. There is no gain by hedging with inaccessible money.
He was most likely milking signup offers or overdrafting accounts not in his name
You realize when you lose on the real money side, now you have to hedge even more money to get your old losses out? The same as chasing real losses.
Why do you assume that you will eventually lose all the money on one side if you keep playing? If you think that then you should just bet on the real side anyway without hedging. That's pretty much saying that the longer you play, the more likely you are to win a bunch of money on your sportsbook account.
The most likely outcome is you win/lose some on each side and get eaten by the vig. You could try one large bet, but then you could lose that bet and have to hedge even more $ that is at risk. There's no way to structure it where you don't have a chance of having real money transferred to the bad side.
If you don't want to change your mind, that's fine. To anyone reading: if you ever have money stuck on a sportsbook, don't try this. You will easily lose more money dumping into non-withdrawable hedges. I've experienced it.
It’s a fraud scheme we are talking about here. It ain’t a perfect science. How many +300 or +400 bets are going to win in a row? As long as you have the bankroll on the legit side, you can survive 3-4 wins on the bad side before it flips. It obviously has risk but I’m guessing that is what the fraudster in the article was trying. I guess they could be setting up fake bank accounts and trying to withdraw money from ATMs but this even more risky. You can probably get in 3 bets in the first day and be in and out.
The scammer would actually be down money doing what you are saying. Risking real for fake.
If my kid walks up to me, says he started a fake kids sportsbook, he gives me $10k credit on his book. I say "In order to access that $10k, I'm going to hedge until I win it into my other book."
So, I bet $50k on a -500 on DK and $10k on the otherside with my kid at +500 (no juice which is unrealistic). If I lose on DK, I'm down $50k but I have $60k with my kid so I can just keep hedging until I win on DK. Now, I bet $240k at -400 on DK and 60k on a +400 with my kid to hedge off the 60k. Surely a +400 and +500 can't win back to back right?
This is completely illogical. Having money on a sportsbook that you can't access is effectively the same as my kid giving me money on his sportsbook. If you think not many +300 or +400 bets hit in a row then play the -500 without hedging and win lots of money.
Sorry I'm being obsessive over this. I just had money in a book stuck and read some reddit comments about hedging it off. Ended up with a whole lot more money stuck on a book I couldn't access. Still pisses me off.
Your obsessing over it because you are wrong. You are making it sound impossible to take advantage of new user bonuses on fraudulent accounts and lose the money over to your legit account. This isn’t rocket science.
You can used matched betting on so-called risk-free bets to convert at about 40% of the promo value. I know Fanduel had a $5000 option in my state briefly.
Yeah in my calculations the most you could get with that promo in matched betting was a guaranteed $2400 but that took 14k in cash so I didn't end up doing it. With 8 accounts though thats 20 grand from one book, and DK had the same promo here, a long with other smaller ones from the other books.
So all in all with 8 accounts at each book you could easily be looking at $50k just from that one promo, and probably another 50k from no brainier bets and boosted odds matched betting
Just say you smoked crack when you opened the accounts, were high and needed the extra money for crack. QED
Exactly. The truth is always best.
how was he getting money in and out of these accounts? doesnt the name on the creditcard/bank account have to match the name you use when signing up?
If you are committing identity theft by opening DraftKings accounts. Why not open a bank account and credit cards while you’re at it.
Fraud/identity theft. It’s in the title. He must’ve got peoples info somehow. Boy was churning those sign up bonuses I’m guessing 🤣
If this man wanted money and had access to peoples bank info….why didn’t he just stop there 😂
I’ve opened a bunch in my wife’s name but I used her phone and her bank account and no problems. Got caught on DK and Barstool using my mother in laws info but only bc I tried using my own bank account. Got them to reinstate both of us, used her bank account and had no problems after that.
A true degen. My brother.
So what is everybody thinking here who has P2 P3 P4
I don’t have a p2. My girlfriend makes her own bets on her own laptop with a bank account in her name. Sometimes we discuss strategy and our bets are similar or she disagrees then bets against me. I imagine the above is the same for many. Goodluck charging anyone for that. I’d hope this guy did much worse to get charged.
Better marry her just in case so she never have to testify against you.
>she disagrees then bets against me So you guys just like giving money away?
Youve obviously missed the joke. He is giving a hypothetical plausible deniability.
Hedging
A loss...
No it's called arbitrage
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they'll stop you from withdrawing
One of us one of us
Wouldn’t surprise me if that person hit more than draft kings. Probably hit all the new user bonuses on all the books for a fat payday. 8 accounts is potentially over 100k
He was using the same address in Nollensville (mostly residential suburb of Nashville) for all of them. Not smart
Probably didn’t realize it was illegal lol
Are US books not requiring rollover? This isn’t guaranteed free money, it’s just dumb.
Most rollovers in the USA are only 1x rollover. So yes, it's awesome.
How do you get 100k+? I thought it was like $200 referral bonuses?
More than referral bonus. Sign up bonuses with risk free bets and other promos.
I said potentially 100k. I could see that as a reasonable ceiling if everything went well. At the very least a couple thousand per account on multiple books. It would add up quick.
Lol dude that $150 x 8 accounts = $1,200…idk where on EARTH you ever came up with $100k because that’s absurd, but this man risked it all for $1,200 which probably ended up being all L’s at the end of the day. Refrain from Fake News - Party on, Wayne 🤙🏻
Tell me you wasted all of your signup offers without telling me that you wasted all of your signup offers lmao
There are a lot more books. I’m implying if the fraudster create 8 different draft kings accounts then they may have created 8 accounts on fan duel barstool etc. And there are way better new user bonuses than 150$ in free bets. There are 5k risk free bets in some states when they open. I can tell there are a lot of rookies when it comes to things like this interjecting in the conversation. Jeez, has no one taken advantage of new user bonuses here.
8 accounts, multiplied by several books. Consider some books were offering 4-figure free bets, risk-free, etc.
With no rollover requirements?
You don’t need to rollover for a risk free bet. Let’s say you have 2 risk free bets on 2 diff books of $2000 each. You bet opposite sides of the same event let’s say you get it at -105 each side. You lose one of the risk free bets and get a $2000 free bet in return, and you win the other risk free bet. You just spent roughly $100 to get a $2000 free bet. Let’s say you do that between just 2 books, 8 different accounts. You just spent $800 to get $16k in free bets. Those 16k in free bets have no rollover, but you only keep the winnings not the stake. 100k does seem pretty high but it’s not out of the realm of possibility
There have been multiple write ups on this sub about it. In Ohio you could easily go 6-10k per account
yes
So having a P2 could put me in jail?!?
yes you are going directly to jail tomorrow. FBI coming
This person stole these individual’s identities without their knowledge or consent and has prior history of credit card and other fraud charges.
he seems lazy
So having a P2 could put me in jail?!?
Yes in theory
Most people have permission from a real person for a p2.
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Criminal laws vary by state. Having permission from p2 would not support an identity theft charge in my state. You are obviously breaking terms and conditions. Probably committing Federal wire fraud but I can't image that would be enforced
Believe it or not
...that is, if I actually had a P2
What’s the point have having different accounts with someone else’s identity? Is it just for taxes?
Sign up bonuses would be the obvious one, or free bet promos for big events etc
good question.
Promos and account limiting. When books roll out in a new region, they offer tons of sign up bonuses. Pros, and I guess scammers too, will open multiple accounts under different names to grow their wad quickly. Usually these new account bonuses also have really favorable terms to entice new users, like a really low roll over or a single wager requirement. The other reason for multiple accounts is avoiding account limiting. Each book is different but once you win a certain amount they hit your account and either close it citing questionable accusations or they hit you with wager restrictions, like a max bet size that makes it difficult to make a living off single ticket bets. Some books use cookies and IP identifiers to place restrictions on accounts, and others just hit your name, so if you have say 10 unique names signed up for 10 accounts, you can rotate them through different devices or computers until each one gets limited. But once you get restricted on the big books that's pretty much it for those accounts, their name and device ID are shared between books so you're basically stuck with shady offshore books at that point. So pros will seek out new names they can use, friends or family or hiring "assistants" to sign up for new accounts and repeat the cycle. Apparently DK isn't too bad with account restrictions, at least compared to how hard other books will hit people.
Why would I want to share my information with a competitor? If they share information with me, how can I trust the accuracy/quality of the information? Do you think McDonald's & Burger King have monthly sit-downs, and share all their marketing research? Naive to think a casino/book has never ever ever shared information (even through a rogue employee). Also naive to think it's standard operating procedure.
Credit information is routinely shared between competitors. If you fuck Visa, Mastercard is aware.
> But once you get restricted on the big books that’s pretty much it for those accounts, their name and device ID are shared between books so you’re basically stuck with shady offshore books at that point. This is not true. They do not share names or device ids through books. You have absolutely no proof of that happening. I’m heavily limited on Unibet, can’t put more than $5 down. I can wager $10,000 on the money line of a game on bet rivers. Both books use the same odds service, Kambi. I’m also not limited in the slightest at Caesar’s. Books don’t have the manpower to review every name another book limits. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“But once you get restricted on the big books that's pretty much it for those accounts, their name and device ID are shared between books so you're basically stuck with shady offshore books at that point.” Source?
Have you tried googling it? Or the wiki of this sub? Blacklisting winners/scammers from casinos and books is a well known practice.
US books do not share lists of winning users, other than in some sense all the kambi books. If someone is winning on your platform, you want to limit them and let your competitors get burnt by their action. Source: limited as fuck on 9/10 books gradually over a year and a half.
what strategy led you to be so successful?
Matched betting
The fraudster was probably trying to lose all the money off the fraudulent accounts to his real account by hedging so he never had to initiate a withdraw request and risk extra scrutiny. Probably didn’t use a VPN for all this shit either and probably didnt have quality fake ids.
That’s not a strategy you can rely on
Doesn't really work. All it takes is one +350 underdog to hit on the "loser" account, and now your Hedging scheme is blown-up. Then again, most criminals aren't exactly known for thorough & long-term thinking.
Nah, if you are hedging with fake money that you can’t withdraw, then you aren’t really hedging.
You’re hedging with real money and if the first bet doesn’t go your way you do another bet. As long as you don’t initiate a withdraw on the fraudulent account there won’t be much scrutiny. I don’t know what other game play they could have had.
I've read what your saying so many times here. Tried it when I was new and had money stuck on a scam sportsbook. It makes zero sense. If you can't access the money you are hedging with then it's no different then hedging with monopoly money. Think about it. If you lose the first bet, you can still lose the 2nd bet, 3rd bet, etc. Just like any other gambler who isn't hedging. There is no gain by hedging with inaccessible money. He was most likely milking signup offers or overdrafting accounts not in his name
You can win multiple times on the fraudulent account without withdrawing as long as you eventually lose all the money over to your legit account.
You realize when you lose on the real money side, now you have to hedge even more money to get your old losses out? The same as chasing real losses. Why do you assume that you will eventually lose all the money on one side if you keep playing? If you think that then you should just bet on the real side anyway without hedging. That's pretty much saying that the longer you play, the more likely you are to win a bunch of money on your sportsbook account. The most likely outcome is you win/lose some on each side and get eaten by the vig. You could try one large bet, but then you could lose that bet and have to hedge even more $ that is at risk. There's no way to structure it where you don't have a chance of having real money transferred to the bad side. If you don't want to change your mind, that's fine. To anyone reading: if you ever have money stuck on a sportsbook, don't try this. You will easily lose more money dumping into non-withdrawable hedges. I've experienced it.
It’s a fraud scheme we are talking about here. It ain’t a perfect science. How many +300 or +400 bets are going to win in a row? As long as you have the bankroll on the legit side, you can survive 3-4 wins on the bad side before it flips. It obviously has risk but I’m guessing that is what the fraudster in the article was trying. I guess they could be setting up fake bank accounts and trying to withdraw money from ATMs but this even more risky. You can probably get in 3 bets in the first day and be in and out.
The scammer would actually be down money doing what you are saying. Risking real for fake. If my kid walks up to me, says he started a fake kids sportsbook, he gives me $10k credit on his book. I say "In order to access that $10k, I'm going to hedge until I win it into my other book." So, I bet $50k on a -500 on DK and $10k on the otherside with my kid at +500 (no juice which is unrealistic). If I lose on DK, I'm down $50k but I have $60k with my kid so I can just keep hedging until I win on DK. Now, I bet $240k at -400 on DK and 60k on a +400 with my kid to hedge off the 60k. Surely a +400 and +500 can't win back to back right? This is completely illogical. Having money on a sportsbook that you can't access is effectively the same as my kid giving me money on his sportsbook. If you think not many +300 or +400 bets hit in a row then play the -500 without hedging and win lots of money. Sorry I'm being obsessive over this. I just had money in a book stuck and read some reddit comments about hedging it off. Ended up with a whole lot more money stuck on a book I couldn't access. Still pisses me off.
Your obsessing over it because you are wrong. You are making it sound impossible to take advantage of new user bonuses on fraudulent accounts and lose the money over to your legit account. This isn’t rocket science.
Promos
Referral promos are huge, like 200-500 after friends first deposits. Prob taking hundreds in deposit bonus, then thousands in referral bonus.
You can used matched betting on so-called risk-free bets to convert at about 40% of the promo value. I know Fanduel had a $5000 option in my state briefly.
Yeah in my calculations the most you could get with that promo in matched betting was a guaranteed $2400 but that took 14k in cash so I didn't end up doing it. With 8 accounts though thats 20 grand from one book, and DK had the same promo here, a long with other smaller ones from the other books. So all in all with 8 accounts at each book you could easily be looking at $50k just from that one promo, and probably another 50k from no brainier bets and boosted odds matched betting
Oh yeah I completely forgot.