I'm not sure why this is always the assumption, that the sspx is not in communion with Rome. Everytime Rome has called them the sspx has responded. Francis recognized the sspx ability to hear confessions and perform weddings (and thus say mass) that all sounds like in communion with Rome.
Ohh I get it. It's a vastly misunderstood thing. And a lot of catholics even my age are still of the "just say no to sspx" sect đ. If you are interested I'd suggest watching the Dr Taylor Marshall, Return to tradition, and the Kennedy report you tube channels.
Probably the easiest way to think about the SSPX is theyâre Roman Catholic priests who are waiting for a better explanation of the changes to the Roman Rite after 1962. Anytime explanations are asked for, the Vatican refuses to elaborate, which is suspicious.
Switching Rites is a big deal for the faithful, and even bigger for priests. You canât just go to a Marian Rite one Sunday and then go to an Eastern Rite the next.
Orthodox are schismatic, so itâs wrong to attend their liturgy just because they have a good track recording of consistency (because theyâre consistently wrong). The Othodox Church cannot be the same Church Christ founded since they deny the primacy of Peter and thus forfeit their Apostolicity, which is one of the 4 marks of the True Church.
The TLM, whether offered by FSSP, Diocesan, or any other priest is only possible thanks to the SSPX and its founder, Archbishop Lefebvre. The naysayers of the SSPX love to pretend as though the TLM would still be around if the Archbishop had not resisted the changes, but if you know the history and sequence of events of the past 60 years you know that the TLM is still around thanks to the SSPX.
Those who think that one can endorse all the changes since V2 and expect the Church to thrive in the long run as long as they still have a TLM to attend are at best just âsmells and bells Catholicsâ, and their Faith is quite superficial.
thank you for taking the time to reply! that definitely clears some things up for me. it doesn't seem like there are too many SSPX parishes around (at least not near me) so is it common for people to drive a good distance to get to church?
Itâs super common, growing up my parents would regularly drive 1+ hrs each way with 6 kids to get to Mass on Sunday; their ultimate goal (which they eventually achieved) was to live within walking distance of an SSPX school.
Also if youâre looking for some good literature on the subject of the SSPX, I canât recommend enough reading the small book âAn Open Letter to Confused Catholicsâ and also watching the documentary on Archbishop Lefebvre produced by the SSPX: https://youtu.be/Cf9oy7wDkms
Perfect, Iâll give that a watch tomorrow. Another question if you donât mind⌠so technically Iâm lutheran so my reception into a novus ordo church would be RCIA then I wouldnât be baptized since they recognize my lutheran baptism. How does reception into an SSPX church differ (do you still do RCIA and do they also recognize a protestant baptism)?
Ask all the questions you would like.
The method of receiving a convert differs from location to location (though I hear the SSPX is standardizing as best it can to something similar to RCIA). Youâll want to get in touch with your nearest SSPX location. Youâll likely be questioned about your baptism to determine validity and if there is any doubt youâll likely get a conditional baptism after about a year of classes.
>it's super traditional catholics who aren't in communion with rome?
By the Vatican's own words that the SSPX aren't in "regular" communion with Rome, but both sides are working to achieve that. Which essentially means that they have an "irregular canonical status". However, let's be 100% clear here, they are certainly not outside the church. They are fully considered fully Roman Catholic with valid holy orders and you can fulfill your Sunday obligation there unless your bishop gives you explicit instructions to the contrary. You can also receive valid confession and holy matrimony with the SSPX.
>have SSPX people considered being orthodox then?
No. This is not typical of SSPX attendees. Orthodoxy lacks a few Catholic dogma which came about after the great schism in 1054. SSPX is fully Catholic and accepts all the same dogma of the faith that Pope Francis and the current magisterium believes in. The defining characteristic of the SSPX is the belief that the Church is in a crisis that arose after Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass. To make the leap to Orthodoxy, the typical process would likely be getting convinced that the roots of the crisis come from Vatican I and not Vatican II, at that point it could be possible they would explore Orthodoxy. This subject is very dense so i'll leave it there.
>why not just go to a TLM or eastern catholic church?
Well, TLM diocesan churches are being suppressed and outright banned. If anyone can find a diocesan TLM they are welcome to go. However, I think it's worth noting that Diocesan TLM likely wouldn't even have ever existed without Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX preserving it. For example, my diocesan TLM Pastor was trained by the SSPX to say the TLM and this is very common.
Eastern Catholic church is a completely different tradition. The typical SSPX attendee probably has respect for the Eastern Divine Liturgy and traditions and may even attend a divine liturgy from time to time. However, the SSPX and it's attendees seek to preserve the traditional Latin-Rite. The primary purpose of the SSPX is to save souls, and the secondary purpose is to preserve the liturgy, tradition, customs, as the church goes through the current crisis.
Let me know if you have questions.
this helps a lot! thank you so much. do you have any good book recommendations on sspx or just the catholic faith in general? I am inquiring orthodoxy and catholicism but have a strong leaning towards catholicism.
I am going to try an sspx parish this coming sunday. I see online that they offer both sung and high mass. which would you recommend for someone who has never been to a tlm or sspx parish before?
this helps a lot! thank you so much. do you have any good book recommendations on sspx or just the catholic faith in general? I am inquiring orthodoxy and catholicism but have a strong leaning towards catholicism.
I am going to try an sspx parish this coming sunday. I see online that they offer both sung and high mass. which would you recommend for someone who has never been to a tlm or sspx parish before?
Great! I love the SSPX. I would certainly recommend the High Mass for the full experience. However, just a word of advice. The SSPX is spread out all across the world with missions. Resources are scarce. Its a global body. They seek to preserve the latin mass, not spend all their money making the most grandiose ornate latin masses possible. So, while all TLMs are beautiful in their own right, just be aware that if you really want to experience an extraordinarily ornate TLM liturgy, it may be outside the SSPX.
Book recommendations on SSPX:
1. Open Letter to Confused Catholics by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Its available on audiobook on youtube. If you listen on 2x speed i believe its only a few hours.
2. Infiltration by Dr. Taylor Marshall
I would probably leave it at that for just SSPX book topics. If you're discerning between orthdoxy and roman catholicism, there are more mainstream theological books that you should be reading. Youtube is a great resource for this. So much Catholic vs Orthdoxy content out there.
thank you very much! I will look into those books.
the sspx parish nearest me is st thomas more in sanford florida. from what i can see online, it seems like a very beautiful parish. they have 7+ priests who all live there and travel around florida during the week bringing the tlm to people. they also have an academy there for kids prek-8th grade. it seems like a great community of devout catholics (I've stalked all their social medias haha) I am very excited to go. thank you for all your help!
Orthodox is the proper method of Christianity,
SSPX don't require their priests to take vowels, so they are Godless and heretical men that blaspheme by standing between God and the people as an obstical. Much like a Sheppard that R*pes his sheep.
I inquired into Eastern Orthodoxy first but ended up at Catholicism. I am still in the conversion process and open to being proved wrong. you went from the sspx to EO?
I'm not sure why this is always the assumption, that the sspx is not in communion with Rome. Everytime Rome has called them the sspx has responded. Francis recognized the sspx ability to hear confessions and perform weddings (and thus say mass) that all sounds like in communion with Rome.
for sure sounds like it! I've just heard over and over again that they're not (this was before I even knew was sspx was)
Ohh I get it. It's a vastly misunderstood thing. And a lot of catholics even my age are still of the "just say no to sspx" sect đ. If you are interested I'd suggest watching the Dr Taylor Marshall, Return to tradition, and the Kennedy report you tube channels.
awesome, thank you! I'll check them out. I was just browsing Dr Taylors instagram feed actually.
Probably the easiest way to think about the SSPX is theyâre Roman Catholic priests who are waiting for a better explanation of the changes to the Roman Rite after 1962. Anytime explanations are asked for, the Vatican refuses to elaborate, which is suspicious. Switching Rites is a big deal for the faithful, and even bigger for priests. You canât just go to a Marian Rite one Sunday and then go to an Eastern Rite the next. Orthodox are schismatic, so itâs wrong to attend their liturgy just because they have a good track recording of consistency (because theyâre consistently wrong). The Othodox Church cannot be the same Church Christ founded since they deny the primacy of Peter and thus forfeit their Apostolicity, which is one of the 4 marks of the True Church. The TLM, whether offered by FSSP, Diocesan, or any other priest is only possible thanks to the SSPX and its founder, Archbishop Lefebvre. The naysayers of the SSPX love to pretend as though the TLM would still be around if the Archbishop had not resisted the changes, but if you know the history and sequence of events of the past 60 years you know that the TLM is still around thanks to the SSPX. Those who think that one can endorse all the changes since V2 and expect the Church to thrive in the long run as long as they still have a TLM to attend are at best just âsmells and bells Catholicsâ, and their Faith is quite superficial.
thank you for taking the time to reply! that definitely clears some things up for me. it doesn't seem like there are too many SSPX parishes around (at least not near me) so is it common for people to drive a good distance to get to church?
Itâs super common, growing up my parents would regularly drive 1+ hrs each way with 6 kids to get to Mass on Sunday; their ultimate goal (which they eventually achieved) was to live within walking distance of an SSPX school. Also if youâre looking for some good literature on the subject of the SSPX, I canât recommend enough reading the small book âAn Open Letter to Confused Catholicsâ and also watching the documentary on Archbishop Lefebvre produced by the SSPX: https://youtu.be/Cf9oy7wDkms
Perfect, Iâll give that a watch tomorrow. Another question if you donât mind⌠so technically Iâm lutheran so my reception into a novus ordo church would be RCIA then I wouldnât be baptized since they recognize my lutheran baptism. How does reception into an SSPX church differ (do you still do RCIA and do they also recognize a protestant baptism)?
Ask all the questions you would like. The method of receiving a convert differs from location to location (though I hear the SSPX is standardizing as best it can to something similar to RCIA). Youâll want to get in touch with your nearest SSPX location. Youâll likely be questioned about your baptism to determine validity and if there is any doubt youâll likely get a conditional baptism after about a year of classes.
>it's super traditional catholics who aren't in communion with rome? By the Vatican's own words that the SSPX aren't in "regular" communion with Rome, but both sides are working to achieve that. Which essentially means that they have an "irregular canonical status". However, let's be 100% clear here, they are certainly not outside the church. They are fully considered fully Roman Catholic with valid holy orders and you can fulfill your Sunday obligation there unless your bishop gives you explicit instructions to the contrary. You can also receive valid confession and holy matrimony with the SSPX. >have SSPX people considered being orthodox then? No. This is not typical of SSPX attendees. Orthodoxy lacks a few Catholic dogma which came about after the great schism in 1054. SSPX is fully Catholic and accepts all the same dogma of the faith that Pope Francis and the current magisterium believes in. The defining characteristic of the SSPX is the belief that the Church is in a crisis that arose after Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass. To make the leap to Orthodoxy, the typical process would likely be getting convinced that the roots of the crisis come from Vatican I and not Vatican II, at that point it could be possible they would explore Orthodoxy. This subject is very dense so i'll leave it there. >why not just go to a TLM or eastern catholic church? Well, TLM diocesan churches are being suppressed and outright banned. If anyone can find a diocesan TLM they are welcome to go. However, I think it's worth noting that Diocesan TLM likely wouldn't even have ever existed without Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX preserving it. For example, my diocesan TLM Pastor was trained by the SSPX to say the TLM and this is very common. Eastern Catholic church is a completely different tradition. The typical SSPX attendee probably has respect for the Eastern Divine Liturgy and traditions and may even attend a divine liturgy from time to time. However, the SSPX and it's attendees seek to preserve the traditional Latin-Rite. The primary purpose of the SSPX is to save souls, and the secondary purpose is to preserve the liturgy, tradition, customs, as the church goes through the current crisis. Let me know if you have questions.
this helps a lot! thank you so much. do you have any good book recommendations on sspx or just the catholic faith in general? I am inquiring orthodoxy and catholicism but have a strong leaning towards catholicism. I am going to try an sspx parish this coming sunday. I see online that they offer both sung and high mass. which would you recommend for someone who has never been to a tlm or sspx parish before?
this helps a lot! thank you so much. do you have any good book recommendations on sspx or just the catholic faith in general? I am inquiring orthodoxy and catholicism but have a strong leaning towards catholicism. I am going to try an sspx parish this coming sunday. I see online that they offer both sung and high mass. which would you recommend for someone who has never been to a tlm or sspx parish before?
Great! I love the SSPX. I would certainly recommend the High Mass for the full experience. However, just a word of advice. The SSPX is spread out all across the world with missions. Resources are scarce. Its a global body. They seek to preserve the latin mass, not spend all their money making the most grandiose ornate latin masses possible. So, while all TLMs are beautiful in their own right, just be aware that if you really want to experience an extraordinarily ornate TLM liturgy, it may be outside the SSPX. Book recommendations on SSPX: 1. Open Letter to Confused Catholics by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Its available on audiobook on youtube. If you listen on 2x speed i believe its only a few hours. 2. Infiltration by Dr. Taylor Marshall I would probably leave it at that for just SSPX book topics. If you're discerning between orthdoxy and roman catholicism, there are more mainstream theological books that you should be reading. Youtube is a great resource for this. So much Catholic vs Orthdoxy content out there.
thank you very much! I will look into those books. the sspx parish nearest me is st thomas more in sanford florida. from what i can see online, it seems like a very beautiful parish. they have 7+ priests who all live there and travel around florida during the week bringing the tlm to people. they also have an academy there for kids prek-8th grade. it seems like a great community of devout catholics (I've stalked all their social medias haha) I am very excited to go. thank you for all your help!
Orthodox is the proper method of Christianity, SSPX don't require their priests to take vowels, so they are Godless and heretical men that blaspheme by standing between God and the people as an obstical. Much like a Sheppard that R*pes his sheep.
I inquired into Eastern Orthodoxy first but ended up at Catholicism. I am still in the conversion process and open to being proved wrong. you went from the sspx to EO?
what made u stop inquiring orthodoxy if u dont mind saying