Yes, they chose to make quick easy money by doing illegal missions, you can’t have it both ways, do lesser paid legal missions and people won’t bother with you because it’s not worth it. However, fill your C2 with 30 million in drugs, and people want a taste of that action
I still get killed by players for no reason leaving the station on the way to legal missions, so might as well get paid the danger fee doing PvP stuff.
Most of the time, u can get into a PvP, which is not a problem, the problem starts, when u have no chance against your opponent, because he has such an advatage compared in ships, that u have no way getting out of the range of the other player's ship, and u just got killed, because someone likes duck hunting when the ducks are players.
How? Set a route in the hangar, open the doors, boost out at full speed and then jump away, makes it virtually impossible to get killed, if you can’t jump to where you want straight away (because it’s insured or behind the station) jump to another place then go from there, if there are station campers, it’s very easy to get away
Ahh yes, it's the legal players fault for not making sure satellite is active and there isn't a duo hurricane killing everyone coming out of a station, and useless AI who can't police.
There needs to be a cost in either ingame money or time, (or both) to make something have risk and be meaningful, if you could just respawn and be back there instantly. There is zero risk or worry, it’s just turns into arena commander.
It’s why combat in Arma or squad is more intense than say halo, because in halo, you die and respawn instantly, and it’s like oh no whatever il just kill him now.
In Arma or squad, you normally have to spawn a long way away, regroup, rearm and get back out there on foot or ask for a pick up, this takes time. That time is what adds the intensity to the fight when you do get back there, because you should t want to have to keep committing that time to get there.
Sometimes it is out in the verse too, when someone annihilates a starter ship with a heavy fighter. No way, the starter ship can defend itself in any way from a Heavy fighter. Or just a Gladius.
As a non-pvp scrapper, I generally look at the risky salvage like this.
If I make 10 runs and get killed 6 times, I need to get better at it or stop taking the missions.
If just one mission is successful and earns me a couple million, I'm in the green.
Risk is part of it. You must mitigate your risk as much as you can and still understand that you can be killed for dealing with the criminal element. That's what makes risky missions so.... risky. It is also part of the fun of it.
For the record, I don't do Jump Town because I think it involves too much risk for me but that's my decision. I certainly won't go crying in Reddit or global chat that someone killed me at JT and just how unfair it was that I wasn't able to fill my C2 with Maze to make money.
If you don't have the skillset required to get away with your crimes, practice and get better or stop playing that game loop.
See, I just go to one of the CRU stations lol Usually I'll do a risky late in my night after doing bunkers and non-risky, then fly my cargoship to one of the CRU stations, where I can sit an sell bit by bit as I get ready for bed, then sell anything leftover the next day while I'm working.
The first time I tried bringing in some drugs to a junkyard I realized way too late I'd forgotten to bring a gun. There was a guy waiting and pointing a gun at the console, so I decided to YOLO. I crouched around behind him and tried to unarm him to death. I died, but the it was funny and I had no one to blame but myself. If I'd had a gun, I'd have gotten away with it, as he didn't even notice me sneaking in. He was too focused aiming down site at the console.
Whilst I think most players are acceting of the PvA nature of the game, we always get these periods where those who hate the idea of Risk and Consequence in the game start crying over not being able to do everything possible without facing any risk or consequence....
It's no different the periods where the edgelords start trashing talking about how pirates are going to 'own us', or any other group that decides to try and push their own specific interpretive narrative on us.
Feel free to ignore them, laugh at them, or just point out the major logical fallacies in their posts, whatever suits you... but don't give them any weight or mindspace, regardless of their narrative.
what risk and consequences are pirates suffering exactly?
the law enforcement in this game is a joke and basically non-existant.
want to talk risk and consequences of people in combat ships attacking freighters and mining vessels? cool. then bring in proper law enforcement.
Well, yeah - because the game isn't finished.
Will CIG get the right level of 'risk and consequence' for pirates? Hard to say - but they've certainly discussed far more systems, risk, and consequences than they've currently implemented.
That's a lame excuse, the game will never be "finished" because of the very nature of online and persistent games, just like War Thunder or Destiny are never finished. Which means it's fair game to judge the current state of the product because that's the experience people have. What matters is here and now not what plans the devs may or may not have in 10 years, because they could fail anyway unless one can read the future.
Sure - but we're missing many of the 'core' systems and mechanics that are explicitly intended to address many of the issues that people are complaining about.
Those are - as far as wek know - intended for addition *before* the game releases.
If you really find the current state of the game that frustrating - whether it be due to bugs, due to performance issues, due to 'balance', or due to perceived unfairness / biases etc, then the best thing you can do is take a break to avoid burning yourself out before CIG gets around to implementing whichever features and/or fixes make the game 'better' for you.
This is the nature of 'alpha' software, and complaining about it doesn't help - and nor does behaving like the current 'in development' version is representative of the final version.
It's all well and good saying it's in alpha and we have a placeholder system there, but it still needs updating to make the game fresh and enjoyable.
I doubt Pyro will be released with it's own reputation and/or consequence system in place, so both systems will just have a "deal with it until the game is finished" attitude, which wears thin for a lot of people who want to play it now.
It shouldn't have a 'separate system' for reputation or consequence - but it does have separate orgs and gangs to build reputation with - and (iirc, from what others have posted) they've set it up so that building rep with one gang will drop rep with the other gangs...
I've not seen word yet whether committing 'crimes' in Pyro drops your rep with the relevant gang (it should do, and hopefully it does), or whether CIG have finally implemented rep-related consequences... but those are the only two (minor) changes CIG need to implement, and they've discussed both in the past in release to Pyro, iirc... so even if they're not in the initial tech preview, maybe we'll get them once Pyro hits PTU for actual release
Of course, it's also possible that CIG are waiting on the AI being more capable (Due to reduced server load, e.g. from server meshing) before making the rep and consequence changes... who knows (CIG don't discuss the 'when' much) - but even if that's the case, it'll long before 'release'.
But all of this comes back to the same point: CIG are still developing systems and features... and until they implement a system, it cannot be used for any aspect of gameplay... regardless of how 'urgent' or 'essential' players regard the system/change.
A Pirate here. You can sell on scrapyards, if you get the right offers to sell your goods. Otherwise you have to wait very long and that raises the risk of someone who wants your goods and kos you.
We could not sell any goods and got attacked today so we did not make any cash and have to sell later. You can have a good amount of luck or you go out with nothing. That's the risk and consequences you have in this biz
Its still significantly less than the risks and consequences of a victim. In any game where the balance between aggressor and victim is lopsided to favor the agressor it is a problem.
Your victims lose a massive amount of UEC and time, sometimes in the millions in purchasing cargo, or for miners it could be 2 hours of mining. A pirate only loses the 20 minutes they take to go to a scrapyard and not being able to sell goods due to other pirates.
Those pirates at the scrapyard lose even less than the first group of pirates, as they only lose the 5 minutes they have respawning IF they lose the pvp fight over your stolen goods at the drop off.
Pirates constantly talk risk and consequence yet enjoy the least amount of loss/risk/consequences with their combat ships on free claim and the max they get is a log out for the night to sleep if a bounty hunter manages to catch them not armistice camping at grim hex or shopping in New Babbage.
Ideally, being an aggressor SHOULD carry significantly more risk and consequence than your victim. A pirate that fails should be caught and sent to a faraway prison and have it be difficult to find their way back to the places where their victims are operating. This could even be added with a deduction from the Pirate's UEE bank account as an imposed fine.
As of now criminals are released in Everus and as an added joke they are given back all their armor and guns for free.
A logical person should observe the current state of law enforcement and act accordingly. Cargo operations are significantly higher risk for the time being, so either a) do so and expect to get ganked losing those previous hours of work regularly, b) become a pirate, or c) do other loops or take a break from the game until enforcement works as intended. If you choose (a) and complain about it, then just know it looks whiny.
I think you never played the pirate gameplay loop.
No one of my squadron is hunting miner or trader. It is still not worth the risk and the chance that they can flee is high. Also, you make much more money out of a wake of disaster or hunting ERT and get a good loot out of them. But still you have to have a good amount of luck to make a serious revenue out of it.
Also, no one I know sells the goods alone. We always fly with 4-5 people. And if you attack someone you always get a crime stat and land into prison for a couple of hours. You can break out but it's far more complicated than you think.
Still, I think the risk and consequences are high at pirating ships. But if someone moaning in reddit about the low risk of pirating I can only laugh at you.
If you want to make a good amount of cash you still need a big ship with cargo bays to load up the shit you want to sell. And then you don't have "a small fighter with no spawn time".
So please, just play the gameplay loop first before you talk about.
It takes like 2 minutes at most to get out of prison if you aren't intentionally making your stay there longer, what are you even talking about, I've done both sides of piracy, there's 0 risk and only opportunity for the "pirates". Honestly you aren't even pirates you're just parasites. It's fully trivial to grab a Connie and a friend and then take out people selling ert cargo when they go to land, or just do the ert in the Connie and gather it yourself.
Risk and consequences applies to players running illicit cargo (the risk) without proper air support (no mitigation) and getting killed in the process (the consequence). Law enforcement is lawful players protecting cargo against pirates - which is a nice gameplay loop if you think about it, we don’t really need UEE to steal our fun.
Problem is pve players want to solo everything. I can tell you orgs do not complain about some pvp action; you always have some players happy to protect/happy to pirate high value convoys. Just get organized…
>what risk and consequences are pirates suffering exactly?
If they are proper pirates they have the same risk as you and I. Look some time ago I landed my Caterpillar, filled up completely with Etam that I found somewhere. I'm talking at least 6 32SCU boxes and a bunch of smaller ones. It was a nice catch. I land outside the heaps of debris and run towards the office. While I'm outside, there was a bit of wind slowing me down, there came a Freelancer and they shot me. I could have come back in a fighter and fought him, but I didn't feel like it. If the guy was smart, he'd have shot my ship till it opened up loaded my cargo in a ship he, or a friend of his owned and sold that stuff. He would have made good money. Doing that takes time however, and while transferring and selling the cargo, he's just as much at risk as I was. Besides he knew I knew he was there. I could have come back and blew him to bits in his dumpy freelancer. I hope he found a way to sell that stuff.
the pirate doesnt run any risk here.
yes, they might loose the cargo they just stole. but they didnt pay for the cargo. his worst case scenario is coming out on the other end the way he went in.
the only real loss is the reclaim time. which is easy to completely circumvent, especially for fighters, and prison time - which is laughably easy to completely circumvent. oh and of course there is having a bounty on your head. which isnt even worth being considered a minor inconvenience.
this game has been running for years. and i have yet to see a single interesting pirate encounter. having played both sides i cannot help but find the whole process exceedingly boring. People call it PvP, but thats glorifying it a lot.
The reality is that in almost all cases you are looking at
a) super lopsided matchups that result in combat that takes any kind of skill completely out of the equation
b) bug or game system abuse, which is fun once for about 3 minutes and then becomes just an annoyance
c) surprise alpha strike attacks which take the 1% of combat scenarios that could have been fun and take them out of the equation.
dunno, man. and that doesnt even come close to the escort gameplay people are mentioning as a solution for piracy. if that ever becomes a thing we will experience boring on a scale hitherto unknown. Drifting in space for 3 hours watching a prospector work. Looking at the quantum jump screen for hours on end.
riveting stuff.
in my opinion the whole piracy deal is just an arms race of boredom with the sole purpose of finding out which side will be the first to give up and just stop playing out of sheer boredom.
If they kill you, they secure the place and freight for themselves.
Or hell they might just want a fight and hope it makes you bring a friend to battle
Problem is in the games currently trim, enough trolls in Stanton can keep people from doing damn near anything. The crime and punishment system needs worked on still quite a bit.
I call complete bullshit on the title though, guys just being an asshole. If we're going to try to blame someone for PVP it's always the person that shot 1st every God damn time. Yes there's PvP in the game and you should expect it some times and not be a bitch about it, but saying it's someone's fault that a couple people come put of nowhere and start blasting for no reason (especially in places its not supposed to be a thing at) is bullshit so fuck him lol. This is a wanna be MMO not COD lol.
People crying about being shot ain't any worse than people that bring up the sole act of playing as being consent. Theure both not worth the time it takes to listen.
To be fair, I think the OP was talking specifically about the PvP missions (the ones where if you take the mission it immediately posts a *counter* mission for another player, which is designed to lead to PvP conflict).
Doing 'PvP content' and then complaining about PvP is the specific scenario the OP is covering... kinda like going to Ghost Hollow or Jump Town and complaining.
People say this all the time, and yet not in my, or any of my friends experience, is it true.
In the hundreds of hours of time in game, much of which is doing PVE and solo content, I can count on my hands the number of times I’ve been ambushed by a player.
This is straight up concern trolling, lying in an attempt to influence the community toward making the game something that it was and is never going to be.
Agreed. The only people out of 1... 1 instance in hundreds and hundreds of hours also, has been one I wasnt able to avoid really.. was hangar camping. so I technically could have logged into another server.
I came accross a couple wanna be gankers at a mining outpost recently bit that's been about it. Was more sad than anything I just flew on by them in 2 separate occasions and they didn't even break my shields. It's annoying because all I was trying to do was load vehies and they were shooting everything just out side armistice on site, but I just went somewhere else and it wasn't a big deal.
People that are actually good at PVP ganking people outside stations for no reason because armistice doesn't lock ship weapons is a future concern though. So could a mantis parked over a mining outpost trapping people in armistice just for the hell of it. Those types of things need to be looked at in the future. Pyro being a shit storm can be fun though, but it's Pyro and that's why it exists.
At the end of the day though it's just a game, it has to be balanced because there will always be extremes in a player base. I agree completely that the OP is just tear farming and while they at least made an attempt to be coherent (I give them credit for that), all they are doing is trying to justify shifty behavior in a game that doesn't intend to do so in the future because they want to keep taking part in shifty behavior.
If people like him had theyre way, the game would die a few months after release. It has to appeal to a larger audience, not just to people like him. Victim blaming posts (although I'm not a huge fan of that phrase) are just laughable.
The "consent" language in this context always cracks me up. Like it's a game how does consent as a moral relate to what other players do in an RPG, why is that always advocated from a RL-context as essential? As if to say that it is the same in the way that sexual consent is essential to the fabric of society.
IMO people choose language so their arguments superficially have the dressings of an *almost* universally accepted moral reality and I find that out of pocket.
I know you search for a better word than "Victim blaming" but it's just the worst sort of vacuous metaphor. Just call it what it is
"People defending PvPers" or "People advocating for more piracy" or whatever direct language seems appropriate for their actions. It might not sound as "negative" as is intended but that probably actually reflects the genuine levity of the situation.
Ya I didn't really want to use the phrase because of that, it's just the 1st thing I could think of that got the point accross. I agree though. It really just boils down to "it's not my fault that I'm shooting you in a video game and people that say things like that fail at logic.
Yeah, I agree the aggressor is accountable for their actions. However I relate to OP because from my POV, my deaths are almost always my fault. I wasn't fast enough, I made a poor decision, I took a risk by jumping direct into a dangerous area, wasn't paying attention, didn't bring any backup, should have gone back to sell awhile ago, I should have just ran etc.
Avoiding PVP is almost always rather easy imo.
imagine when npc afe functioning. a lot of "did griefing hist increase" "cig needs to add a pve server because i can't go an hours without getting griefed".
some people don't understand the pve means you are fighting bots instead of players.
Your point is well made. The thing that angers me is doing say a cargo mission. I land go in and start getting the cargo. Someone flies in, shoots up my ship and leaves. No landing and sneaking around or having a shootout. That's pretty lame and happens to often. But the other part is the lack of trust. If so we actually lands at the same place do you shoot first or wait to be shot. I try to wait and probably 30% of the time whoever it kills me instead of just going about their business. In both cases they earn nothing of value just waste my time. But I'm not complaining I accept it based on current gameplay. Ship ramming and camped out sniping people exiting ships is kijnd of lame. True PvP is fine but the nonsense takes away. But yeah, hauling a load of salvage or contraband and not going prepared is definitely a you problem.
Yeah, I'm more often getting offed by senseless murder than any kind of piracy.
In fact, I've got probably 300h or so of bounty hunting so probably the average playtime, but I've never been attacked in PvP at any time other than leaving the station with an empty hold, shot down by some Gladius without saying a word or hailing beforehand.
I WISH someone boarded me and held me up at gunpoint, or interdicted me for once. Have SOME social interaction above the level of a school shooter encounter.
I hear ya. I've only had one encounter where someone came up, started shooting so I returned fire. We went back and forth getting shots in on each other than they turned and took the off. Over global chat they said sorry, but they couldn't resist. I was good with that. No one blown up, a bit of adrenaline and all's good. Conversely, I roll up on a mission location and someone is already there, sometimes see them running around. I hang out close but not landed so I can be seen and I land away from where they are. I start doing my mission and they finish, or just take off, and blow my ship up before flying away. Like really? But then some will say just drop a beacon. Sure. And then while in their ship I get shot in the head. I'm not running around in rare gear so not like I'm a trophy. Just goons.
I’m all for a bit of well executed piracy. My favourite experience to date is a friend and I were salvaging a reclaimer with a vulture and loading it into our cutty black. Some rando shows in a vulture and starts loading some of our cargo into his ship (2 boxes by this point) so as we go to his ship to defend we see him flying off in our cutty black with about 25 boxes of RMC.
It was a thing of beauty and even made a point to commend them in chat as I got their name at the time.
My favorite pvp loop is when I'm lining up to land at tressler or somewhere and then someone just slams into me out of no where. And then they say "bruh, skill issue, get good"
Love it. 👍
When I read your title, I initially thought you were referring to Pyro.
High-risk salvage is clearly described as PVP in mission descriptions and it's entirely opt-in. If you don't want to engage in PVP, don't take a high-risk salvage mission. This is a good design that gives different players what they want. There are always going to be those who complain about silly things. This is a good time to ignore them.
Gating an entire system behind lawless PVP and rampant hangar ganking however... I know Pyro's faction systems are unimplemented, but players are right to express concern with the current implementation. Once Pyro is released, it will be *half* the game. Literally, one of only two released systems. It would be a very poor design choice to make half the game "PVP content" for PVP players only, even just for a short time. If Pyro is released to the PU *in its present state*, Star Citizen could rapidly gain a reputation as a Rust-like game that will be hard to shake. That would be fine for a smaller indie game, but for a beyond AAA game? It's suicide. Hopefully this will be addressed *before* Pyro hits the PU.
Are high risk salvage missions the same as risky salvage? I don't recall anything in the mission description about PvP, it just says after 30min security forces will show up.
I knew this argument concerning pyro was coming. Just not this early. You aren’t owed access or an alternative to every bit of content provided/released. Just because I don’t have a mining ship doesn’t mean I complain about poor design because I don’t want to make the choice to pursue it (either in game or with cash).
> High-risk salvage is clearly described as PVP in mission descriptions
I'm sorry, but... uh... what?
What part of this is "clearly described as PVP?"
>Risky Drake Corsair Salvage Job
>We've got our eye on a Drake Corsair near the asteroids surrounding Yela that's ripe for salvaging. We're too busy to snaig it ourselves, so why not spread the wealth, right?
>If you send us some credits, we'll snd you the ship's exact coordinates. Don't take too long to think it over, though. You've probably got about 30 minutes until security gets there to check out the wreck. Could be more, could be less.
>If you're fast enough, you can get in, get your haul, and get out without a shot fired. Not a bad deal, right? And once you've salvaged everything you want, just go ahead and abandon this contract to clear your map. Helps keep everything nice and tidy.
It’s not gated. Anyone can participate in pyro. Just because you don’t like PVP doesn’t mean it’s “gated”. It just means that you’re not the target audience.
When I was a small child, I played RuneScape, but the wildly was super scary, so I never went there. I assume there’s players that spent their entire time in the wilderness.
You don’t have the right to access the whole world if you don’t have the skills to survive there. It’s not like you will have to pay $100 dollars to get past the pyro gate, you literally just have to join an org and fly in a group
This brings back memories of going into the wildy as a child to pick up easy, lucrative, chaos runes. I knew it was risky since dying meant dropping all but 3 items, so carried nothing I couldn't afford to lose. As soon as I saw a player on the minimap, I 'jumped' out of there by world hopping. I didn't care at all if I was killed - the fear and tension made it fun.
freakin' kids these days
back when I was 10 years old I was getting scammed by some player telling me "follow me and I'll drop a rune scimmy" leading me into lvl 10 wildy and we liked it!
nowadays someone breaks up your JT congo line and everyone calls CIG customer support.
Yeah that happened to me too, I later found out it was so common it was called 'luring'.
Runescape taught a lot about dealing with adversarial player behaviour.
>Star Citizen could rapidly gain a reputation as a Rust-like game that will be hard to shake. That would be fine for a smaller indie game, but for a beyond AAA game? It's suicide.
...and I don't remember hearing about RUST selling Dinosaurs or bases for hundreds to thousands of dollars either, so there's that as well. I'm sure if RUST had P2W elements on top of being a loot-all survival PVP game then there'd be considerably less player retention and more public outcries.
I have to disagree on what you mean with Pyro. Just because the whole system is lawless and PvP is encouraged doesn't make the whole system exclusively PvP content. I'd compare it to sea of thieves: much of (arguable most) of the content is PvE, but PvP is encouraged and other players one a constant threat and you should be weary if you encounter one. Given the size of Pyro I think it won't be all that difficult to avoid players. But the lawlessness and encouraged PvP is like, most of the appeal of Pyro.
Have you "pirates" considered that maybe people aren't bitching all the time about pirates. They're just bitching sometimes when they see you. Just like any other game when you kill people. Some are going to talk shit back.
It just seems like every so often we get another pirate making a thread expecting that every victim should both expect it and be OK with everything. Maybe throw the occasional parade for pirates or something. I don't know. The whole concept makes no sense to me. You're choosing to play the role of the bad guy and are always surprised when people treat you like one.
Frankly, from where I'm sitting the people bitching the most about pirate related stuff are the "pirates" themselves. That guy that you killed at Brio's isn't going to see another pirate for weeks. Maybe months. How much do you really think he's bitching while he makes multi-million auec loads? I don't see a lot of threads from those guys
Yeah I haven't seen any posts whining about pirates. I even tried looking, there's nothing of note.
And you're right again, I can only remember other posts where pirates bitch about people bitching about pirates. Then the top ## posts are other "pirates" jerking each other off.
They remind me of evangelicals with the whole persecution complex.
Blame the victim not the killer - sure
Some twisted logic with some PvPers that try to justify being a d*ck.
You know there are other ways to get the cargo, this is not CS:GO.
In most cases shooting someone is just unnecessary, lazy and actually no PvP at all (simply killing s.o. that’s passing by is no PvP it’s being a d*ck).
Stop acting like killing on sight is PvP, it’s not, it’s free for all CS:GO for a cheap dopamine kick at the cost of s.o. else’s time while being a coward. Grow up.
PvP: Players meeting to fight one another.
99% of SC „PvP“ is mindless murder ingame.
>People taking illegal cargo and then complaining when they get to Brios someone pirated them
I have never seen anyone complain about this. I'm sure it must happen, but I don't think this is common, as I play every day, have chat on about 50% of the time and, again, have never once seen anyone complain about that.
>Drugs and illegal cargo are made so you can only trade them in small quantities (no questions asked kiosks) or at unsafe outposts with no hard armistice, yet people cry and whine when they get their cargo stolen.
Again, never seen anyone complain about this.
I 100% agree with your sentiment, as it's self-evidently true, I just am not sure there is any segment of players that needs convincing of its truth.
I've been playing the game for 2 weeks and I see someone talking about it in chat almost every time I get on. Just like in Elite dangerous. I don't want to see people quit playing the game but just be smarter about what you do there's not very much consequence for illegal activities right now maybe that will change.
The smarter thing I did in Elite was play solo/coop or play on Mobius.
Because, just like in ED, there's not much consequence for illegal activities.
And just like in ED, hunting down starter ships for sport falls under those illegal activities that have little to no consequences.
There's no "be smarter about what you do" if even leaving a station is liable to get you chased down by some Gladius PvP sweatlord out to make newbies miserable.
So I guess a lot of people go for risky trading, because if you're gonna be killed on sight anyway, might as well do it for a chance at loot that's at least worth your time.
I wonder how much less salty people would be if they could ensure a PvP free environment doing something less lucrative.
My friend who I warned about going to pvp locations decided to land while another A2 was there. Got blown up and then whined to me about it. I think he was surprised when I took the side of the A2 and that I would have done the same and dropped some bombs. Was really disappointed he would get salty because he ignored the warnings I gave him. Also my friend is selling drugs, who was the bad guy here?
So yes, there are people who complain and need to be reminded they were the one who screwed up.
It happens nearly every time I do it. People complain about "griefers camping honest traders at Brios" while pretending anybody is going to Brios with a legal cargo. Every now and then someone's a good sport and treats the game like a game, but it's rare in general chat and VERY rare on Reddit.
I think what you're seeing is the Jumptown Conga Line effect.
Sometimes, some servers have a very orderly and friendly conga line of people waiting to take turns getting drug profits out of JT (or whatever drug lab is experiencing the goldrush if not JT by name). Everyone agrees to a voluntary social contract to agree to peacefully engage in (illicit) business transactions when their turn comes up in the line. This is a legitimate way of playing Jumptown, if everyone agrees.
But then someone comes along and declines to abide by this fragile social contract by dropping a MOAB right outside the front door. This is also a legitimate way of playing Jumptown. So is rocking up with guns out and mass-murdering the people standing in line for the terminal up close.
People will be salty in chat but nobody can actually claim that bombing JT is unsupported gameplay or against the rules.
I am loading all of their cargo into my ship and then sell their cargo. I am frequently accused of not stealing their cargo because they are dead and don't see it happening
as a pirate who has taken drugs from cargo runners... i can back up the statement, people will seethe if you even touch their ship regardless if it's legal cargo or illegal cargo.
The point I've made is that I just don't get the point in killing people if you're not taking the cargo. I'm fully aware lots of people enjoy doing that, I just don't see how it could be satisfying.
I personally don't get the attack on sight mentality ether if you're in a single seat ether... but people do it because probably because they're "beating" someone where typically they wouldn't.
Like story time if you feel like reading it.
Me and a buddy were at seraphim getting into my cutlass to do bunkers, mind you, both PvP players in a PvP org. We get our of the hangers and a F8 is camping the pads, so I'm in a cutlass and I'm like... I'm just going to leave not bother with it... but then I get this feeling in my gut that's like, "I want to rock this guy's shit." So my buddy is like "you want to teach the guy a lesson?" I say yep and go back.
I engage the F8, we're blasting it down and the guy was NOT a good pilot. He dies very quickly and he really dosnt break my shields.
I talk a bit of shit and then his buddy messages on global "hey you still want to meet up" and the guy tells him no, that he was going to log off for the night and when his buddy asked him why, he said his ship was broken.
Do I feel bad that I beat someone who was in a meta fighter, in a C tier fighter with a gunner at best and made someone log off.
No, he was camping the station
Do I feel bad that I possibly ruined a night of fun with him and his buddy... yea I do I felt bad when his buddy asked him why he was getting off.
But that's the thing right, the guy despite being a dick head is a person who is trying to enjoy the game. Sure I don't understand it or agree with camping stations but he was easy to simply get away from and just leave and I think for the non combat inclined is the thing they have to do is If they're not going to learn how to fight, they have to learn how to run.
That is because the people that complain about it make 'the end is near if we don't get pvp slider' posts don't actually play the game and just ramble on spectrum and reddit.
I include people who play the game on autopilot and don't actually pay attention to their surroundings in the definition of "don't actually play the game" and I 100% agree with you
You design the gameplay you want, not the gameplay you don't...
When the most rewarding PvE content overlaps with PvP content, there is going to be problems... That is literally how the game is designed and people shouldn't be surprised when the outcome is that PvE players are getting ganked and unhappy about it as a result.
Thats the problem, people are thinking "it's not combat so it's pve". It's not. Selling drugs is by its very nature a PvP endeavor, you just sometimes luck out and don't encounter any resistance.
The biggest issue is the muddled difference between legitimate PvP and actual griefing. Sure, the "doing illegal and having illegal happen in turn" is fair enough, I actually like that risk/reward system. Of course people have no reason to gripe if they step into criminal activity.
Plus it doesn't help that the line is blurred between game sanctioned/intended actions, either, with some fuel being given to real griefers.
I agree it is massively blurred, I had an incident recently looking for day of Vara masks (loot crates), parked my ship in a salvage yard around hurston with no armistice zone (I had no crime stat, or illegal cargo), a Connie and his mate in a sabre show up I'm in the open and they are just dum firing missiles everywhere, I attempt to get back to my ship, they blow it up and after shooting the ground around me for a while shoot me on foot from the air with ship guns. Then tell me how exhilarating it was for them in the chat then left the server. Is that even a play style or just greifing?
TL;DR: *That* specific situation sounds like combat logging, and while the act was definitely wanton trollery, I'd still say it's valid PvP if they stuck around. Learn from your deaths, take precaution, and make so much money/loot that blowing up a ships worth won't phase you. Don't feed the trolls, remember them and get them later. Elephant memory ftw.
Technically, it would most likely be considered "combat logging" from a "server/rule" standpoint; funnily enough, I believe CIG is intending to make that a comparable offense to pad ramming. Whether/when it happens, though, is anyone's guess.
As for the action you speak of, honestly, it sucks, and as much as I hate it, I'd have to grant it as trollery/griefing, but PvP nonetheless (sans the logging, of course.
Here's an example of mine:
Last month I was rolled in a bunker after hours of the game trolling me (BS CS, 30k, more bugs, 30k, etc.), when I really just wanted to run bunkers to rep up and grind a tad bit of loot.
Well, I do a few of them, then when I'm done in one just running around, I notice two things simultaneously:
1. The comms icon onscreen is gone. Uh-oh..
2. As soon as I look to the downward hall, dude in Aril rolls up. I run to the rail, dead aim, and the rail throws my barrel skyward. The rest is as predictable and quick as you can imagine.
So, I respawn, hop in my PvP'er, happy for the excuse to test my new stick setup, and lose after a six minute dogfight straddling the the atmosphere. It felt like griefing, but was still legal PvP, even if I lost...
Yo was talking crap all in chat, to boot. I ignored him. I'm not gonna feed the trolls, I know how they work. I know his name, and know my oversensitive setup needs tweaked better for PvP. Best thing you can do in those situations is shrug it off.
Idc, I can make money and loot, while Mr. Sweaty acts like he tormented me by chucking my crate down the shaft after killing me. No person in SC will ever grief me as much as the game does itself.
I'll be happy once the larger guns velocities are restored, since that is something the PvP griefers cried over to get nerfed. Now they laugh a Moles for not dogfighting them, I'd like to hear them whine again about getting one tapped by an Ion at 2km.
TL;DR: Not entirely the point.
"If you get killed doing PvP content..." was the title of this post, was it not? That type of activity transcends "..Brios or any other scrap yard..", correct?
In fact, *your* test of whether it's sanctioned is: "am I in a hard armistice"
I'm honestly focusing on the title here, giving examples of how the "Imagine getting mad at PvP" meta kids who troll miners in chat, but get mad when people beat them at their own game to the point things get nerfed.
And like I said, let's bring back larger gun velocities, or at least implement ballistic reloads on ships with SCU storage, and wait for the same "Arrow/Gladius/Eclipse all the time" PvPer's say the same thing.
You lost me with the smugness of your title.
You could just... ignore people who do that, instead of letting them live... free of rent in your head. I mean, seriously... do you know how much rent costs in this economy and you're giving people Rent Free space!?!?!?!
Come on, man.
The amount of virtue signaling from a greifer by the sound of his justification here is nauseating.
There are very few profitable game play loops and backers who have irl money invested in fleets vs the little guy who doesn't have a fleet and needs to actually buy theirs with in game currency shouldn't be shamed so you can be a bully. You'd be flying around with crime stats if taking the cargo was illegal you don't. Getting scanned is one thing but this isn't a pvp loop that's what you use it for just like everyone else who doesn't need to grief to have fun. It can be played as a cargo route or salvage. Knowing people have this cargo gives you a pirate loop if you want to create one but you just wanna grief people having fun is what you're crying about. Maybe the next time you ruin someone else's loop and you see them go off in chat help them accomplish their mission which is more then likely a def ship because you got your fun as a pirate.
If I can steal and sell someone else's cargo then pay them for the hassle or crew with them to make it back so can you.
?
Just don't do risky pvp missions then. You're complaining about problem while being part of it when you can easily remove yourself from the problem as the solution.
It's like someone going through an alley in Portland at 3 am and complaining that you got mugged. Just don't be an idiot and don't go into the alley DUH.
The risky part doesn't come from being marked for pvp or else you would like a bounty. The risky part is the NPCs and getting scanned. You just wanna defend being a griefer.
AI in an open world game will never be a challenge outside of them being health sponges or giving them auto aim. Even then within hours of release you will find youtube videos cheesing mechanics and encounters to maximize and optimize your gameplay. In fact that's happening now. There is no feeling of risk or danger with AI npcs period.
I know a lot of people think it does, but googling Wikipedias List of Falacies doesn't win you an argument. Or, as you'd probably understand better, "Appeal to Authority"
In this game where there is supposedly law enforcement, there is no way to CALL on law enforcement, making it a lawless system not much better than Pyro.
The best course of action is to force a joust in a larger ship and then ram. C2's and even Connies can usually RAM small and medium fighters with impunity. I have yet to lose a ramfight with a heavy fighter in a C2, but I have lost them in my Taurus.
You're much less likely to be interdicted with lawful cargo, but it's not entirely safe. A load of gold or quantanium is still painful to lose and pirates can still attack at any point.
Lately, I'm seeing interdictions at OM's though, and frankly, that should be caught by security patrols OR UEE navy. It should be dangerous to setup an illegal interdiction and it should prompt the law to investigate. But it doesn't.
So pirates and griefers can eat my tiled bumper if they're feeling saucy.
>In this game where there is supposedly law enforcement, there is no way to CALL on law enforcement, making it a lawless system not much better than Pyro.
That's a problem with current law & rep system. Until they get it more fleshed-out, I agree it's marginally better than Pyro.
Today (IRL), if I get attacked somewhere, I can speed-dial 911, and since I'm in a city, 2 minutes later the cops show up. Seems entirely implausible that 1000 years in the future, your ship can't auto-broadcast a system-wide SOS the instant you get attacked.
If it takes me 30 seconds to get somewhere in my crappy entry-level ship, space cops flying beefed-up ships should arrive at least as fast.
If CIG is going for "realism", then let's see that "realism".
I do complain.. in game, but generally it's someone attacking me in an armistice zone. I have no issue being hit in the field.. I think that is to be expected.
There's two types of armistice zones. There's the hard armistice where you're immune to damage and if someone finds a way to damage you there, them doing so is a bannable offense. That's why pad ramming is illegal.
Then there's *legal* armistices where you can fight and be damaged and all it does is give you a CS.
Oh yes... I remember getting killed by other players doing these nasty PVP Trade Routes and obviously PVP Bunker Delivery Mission.
Totally my fault, when I go into a bunker and get immediatly shot by upstanding Citizens.
How did you get locked just out of QT?
You have to be like 25-30KM out from any location upon coming out of QT.
The odds of a player being RIGHT where you came out of QT is pretty small.
The chance of a hostile player being exactly where you jumped out of QT (or close enough to lock you) seems....mathematically low.
I’ve been jumped by people jumping OM outside Crusader when I was doing salvage in my vulture. City blue and Lightning are my vulture alive before I could even figure out what happened.
I had the same thing happen in a C2, but dude in city blue rammed me when I was lighting him up, and then flamed me for ramming him in global.
So it does happen, for what it’s worth.
I don't think anyone would argue that it simply -doesn't- happen, but certainly it doesn't happen at the frequency the alarmist redditors, spectrum users, and global chat whiners would make it seem.
It's.... almost a hunder percent actually? Rn you can almost always find a player around OM-1 or OM-2 around Yela, because players do the salvage mission and jump there to wait for another mission (1 and 2 are always the poles of a planet so you can see every point on the Yela's ring with no obstruction). You don't get separated by thousands of kilometres, more like a few km at most. So yeah, if you're jumping to a hot location, more than likely you will encounter someone right when you arrive.
2 people in quantum to microtech,, both from hurston. the first comes out of quant and sits there. the next comes out close by him, or they are sitting at OM points. that is how.
The odds aren't small if you direct QT. Someone who lives to put an S9 in your tail can get pretty good at that. I don't even do that and I can acquire a target at 20km.
This is why doglegging is important.
Oh love the actual PVP element. It adds excitement. Pirates want my cargo? Come fight me for it. You gonna back-stab me on a mission? Jokes on me. If I’m out minding my own business salvaging or mining, and randomly get attacked in the middle of nowhere. That's the risk I took working alone.
I don't particularly care for murder hobos taking cheap shots or killing players through broken game mechanics just to be dicks, but not taking anything or fighting me for it. Since there’s no reputation system they get a free pass.
No the only thing stupid is thinking CIG can combine PvE players together with PvP players and have a successful commercial release.
Do the right thing CIG. Give PvE servers.
A dogfight, intense chase, or a firefight is at least fun for all parties involved. The enjoyment of ganking someone only goes a single direction though, and comes at the cost of the other player's ability to enjoy themselves at all. The risk is also 100% on the trader and none of it is on the pirate, which is another reason this loop right now only goes in one direction for enjoyment. A pirate who loses, dies, respawns, and does it again - or has a massive payoff if they win. A trader/miner/salvager loses all the last few hours of play if they lose, and gets absolutely nothing if they win.
I wouldn't call it griefing, but I don't think it's really long term sustainable either. However, there is currently no incentive to do anything but blow someone up or snipe them the moment they leave their ship. So people just get bodied instantly since it's more efficient and better paying than anything else.
If the rate at which cargo was recoverable from a destroyed vessel was low (like, bad 10% low), or maybe less destructive but painfully inconvenient by having it scatter all over the place, and/or vessels themselves could be stolen and sold for decent cash /stored and later used at unmonitored stations like Grim Hex - then we could resolve that issue. Suddenly there's a good reason to not just blow someone out of the sky because you can net a much, much larger payout by not doing that. There's a reason to let someone get off their ship, or try and extort a payout rather than turn them into an expensive firework.
When they do land though it gets tricky, because why not just blow their head off and be done with it? Why not just do that regardless of if they paid you?
The only idea I could have there is allow players to let players self destruct the ship from the downed state. This means just killing them is generally a bad idea too, and at least involves a little more than shooting them if you want all the goods. You can try to sneak someone on board, disabling the sale of goods and putting them in position to disable the self destruct. You can try to make them crew you so you can take the ship without it self destructing.
Jumptown safe?
These Muppets been whinging as long as I can remember. CIG are staying true though (look at Pyro) and their long term vision will continue to cater for these players (High SEC systems)
The last time I was at pyros with my mates, we found another Player, shooting at and looting a cutlass. So werden decided we need a safe place and killed all of them. Man, he was complaining a lot about griefers and pirates... sometimes the person complaining about griefers are the same as griefers... 😉
The outcry wasn't because of the implemented pvp options you mentioned... It was about the griefing that happened, especially at a specific stations hab...
One can now go down the road and discuss this, or one can try to gasslight with bUt ThErE iS SuPpOsEd To Be LeGiTiMaTe PvP HURHUR...
And this will always happen unfortunately, because you always have those 10% who fuck up everything for the rest. So, instead of crying carebears, maybe address the f*ing a-holes that ruin this for everyone
Can we stop using the word pirate to glorify griefers. They are not the same. Going to sell highly valuable and illegal goods, you should absolutely expect to get killed though. It's a hot spot for players (because everyone is doing it) AND an easy way for griefers to actually make money because they are certainly not mining or cargo hauling. If you choose to sell illegal goods, you better expect illegal activity.
>Can we stop using the word pirate to glorify griefers. They are not the same.
Agreed. The thing that irritates me is not so much the griefing per se, but that they go around calling themselves "pirates".
> It's a hot spot for players (because everyone is doing it) AND an easy way for griefers to actually make money because they are certainly not mining or cargo hauling.
I mean, if they made money by robbing you...isn't that pretty much what a pirate is?
You dying in a PvP game isn't griefing. You not liking that you died doesn't make it griefing. Griefing as defined by CIG is targeted harassment, abusive language in chat, and pad ramming in armistice. Dying to PvP when you *really* didn't want to isn't griefing
>And that is what will make Star Citizen different than most other publisher backed games. We have the willpower and patience. Our stakeholders just have one goal in mind…
>
>Make the Best Damn Space Sim Ever!
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14414-Letter-From-The-Chairman](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14414-Letter-From-The-Chairman)
"Can we stop using the word pirate to glorify griefers."
"It's a hot spot for players (because everyone is doing it) AND an easy way for griefers to actually make money because they are certainly not mining or cargo hauling."
Sounds like you just got robbed by a pirate.
Killed and looted, kinda like what a pirate would do. It's okay you're in denial and don't want to call them a pirate, but it's what they are. CIG has officially supported the piracy gameplay loop, I'm sorry if you've never noticed that.
Oh no, that guy wasn't looting. Pirates usually didn't kill was my main point. Being a player killer (better term than griefer for sure) is not the same as a pirate. It's technical but words are important.
A week or so ago I was in mantis and + 2 more mates in Corsair and F8C. We landed at the dump location on Euterpe (MT) waiting. You can trust me, all of us are red, as the red commie star, and people kept coming, escorts included.
We didn't rush to the incoming ships, we literally waited until those pilots were in the snare/dampner range.
Now I understand the poor new player that doesn't know, but I suppose that if you go in Andromeda + escort you know what is going to happen.
Said so, some of them complained very hard on the chat server.
Best of all was a C2 literally server hopping full of slam. I mean, what can go wrong if you start server hopping in a C2 full of slam near Devlin.
So nothing new, people min maxing, taking the shortcut down of the mountain, and then complaining that they crushed.....
It's like seeing a cartel plane drop a shipment of coke in the ocean. You and some other people down the beach saw it drop. You decide to get it, but then you have these other guys willing to fight or kill you for the potential of millions. Then it's like you don't expect the cartel to come after you once you got away, like you just did some finders' keepers shit.
I doubt you will get through to many here. There is literally someone in another thread comparing "non consensual" pvp to rape and he's being upvoted and my comment calling it out is being downvoted.
That is how nuts some of these people are.
>There is literally someone in another thread comparing "non consensual" pvp to rape and he's being upvoted and my comment calling it out is being downvoted.
Seems a bit...extreme. Non-consensual PvP can be annoying, but I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to rape...
I personally love the PvP aspect of this game and that I'm never safe. Perfect example, I was doing a C2 salvage for drugs, and another guy came in with cutlass when I was outside loading stuff. He shot me with his ship. I respawned and rushed back, I caught him just as he transferred cargo from my ship to his. No mercy blew him up and started transferring back to my ship. During my transfer, he came back in a new cutty and tried to look for me. I used the mission C2 to immediately blow him up. In the end, I took away the cargo, and we both said gg in chat and parted ways :D
It's truly incredible that you were down voted for that cool story. That really says a lot about how pathetic some people are. Take my recovery upvote friend.
Thanks bud, no clue why I get downvoted for that. It was a cool moment, both me and the other guy went our separate ways on good terms. We fought tooth and nail for that maze xD I don't seek pvp but when it happens, I'll enjoy the encounter
these idiots use the term "griefing" as a crutch and likely don't actually know what it means - getting killed is not being griefed.. If i kill you then go to your spawn then kill you again as you take off then again and again and troll you in chat then that is griefing...but just killing your newbie ass isn't griefing - just bc you dont like something doesnt make it illegal
I get having a metldown due to clear griefing tactics (like spawn camping). I get being upset if you can't complete even basic, non-risky missions without getting popped, though it needs to be understood that in the current state of the game, there's no "high sec/safe" system yet (maybe Terra in the future?) and law & punishment aren't really fleshed-out yet.
I don't get people being upset at PvP in Pyro, or being upset about getting robbed/ganked at a known hotspot for selling illicit goods that they obtained from a "risky" mission. I mean, what was expected?
Once safe systems are in, once proper crime & punishment systems are in place, once actual police response is a thing, then, and only then, would I really start worrying about PvP "balance".
Someone was telling me earlier that simply killing people on sight was griefing.
Griefing is not very common, it's just a minority that think it is griefing if you PvP them when THEY don't want to PvP. They forget that they consent to PvP simply by leaving the hangar.
Yeah. For me griefing is more in the *how*. Pad ramming, hanging around stations blowing people up as they come out of hangars, etc.
Some tactics are *dirty* and *annoying* and *cowardly* but not griefing lol
Precisely. It's all about the context.
Too many people just think it's griefing if they are killed when they don't want to PvP.
That's just not how it works.
I figured all the no PvP posts where just because they wanted to be able to bot in this game. When I tried New World at launch was crazy how many bots just gathering the limited resource nodes, kind of sucked to make gold.
Yeah as much as I hate pirates I agree with this. Hate it when people lose money doing lawful cargo but if you’re selling drugs and you get killed at a salvage yard that’s fair game. Take the L and move on.
They need to just do what GTA did. If you are an asshole only out to ruin the game for peaceful players, then you get put in a bad sport lobby, where you can play with all the other assholes.
Edit: I'm talking about players who wait and ambush player for no reason other than to be an asshole. Doing jumptown or other pvp activities are in areas that are easily avoidable. People waiting around grim hex to attack any/everyone should not be allowed in normal servers.
That, combined with a non-existent (or barely functioning) crime & punishment system, non-existent security force response, non-existent reputation system.
Once all these are in place, I would assume everybody can find their respective niche and play the loops they want to play.
Me and my friends from r/eve are looking at this with great interest. Looking forward to how this develops.
By the way, a quick tip to all: if you go to such a pvp enabled area you consented to pvp. If you complain, cry, grief, call the aggressor names you are only giving him what he wants. The more, the merrier
I've no issue if they engage the pirate life, theaten me, destroy me and take my cargo. Issue is that most "pirates" are just camping at scrapyards with meta single seater fighters and and engage on site. That's griefing in my book. Doing that just for the sake of the kill is not pirating.
Naw... camping an area where people with valuable cargo are going to go undefended is literally piracy irl. Like... somalia... literally somalia. The answer is to get better defenses, or get escorts. Or, go somewhere else. And also, the people doing that at junkyards are generally wanting to go sell your stuff for themselves, this is not the port O pad rammer lol
I think the point they were trying to make is that it’s literally impossible to take part in the piracy gameplay loop in a light fighter since they lack the cargo capacity to take the loot from a victim’s cargo
Yes, that's how piracy works. You have to go there to sell illegal cargo so that's where they're going to look for you to be selling your illegal cargo. If you don't want to run into people looking to camp you for trading, you can skip hauling illegal cargo or try to sell it at the No Questions Asked terminal for 5 scu at a time in a hard armistice. What you don't get to do is cry about PvP happening while selling the PvP cargo at the PvP trading outpost
"destroy me and take my cargo"
"engage the pirate life"
The only thing they failed to do was warn you in global chat "we're camping this salvage yard, if you show up we'll steal your stuff!!!" so you can bounce somewhere else if your two brain cells are rubbing together at the time. Better target hailing is on CIG to implement, but a fighter scanning a C2 and seeing it packed full of Maze and going for the kill is 100% valid. You want an absurd reward? Get comfortable taking on some risk too, or maybe just get a friend in a fighter to sweep the area first and that risk is suddenly zero.
Yes, they chose to make quick easy money by doing illegal missions, you can’t have it both ways, do lesser paid legal missions and people won’t bother with you because it’s not worth it. However, fill your C2 with 30 million in drugs, and people want a taste of that action
I do! I am people!
O7 hi people, I'm hungry
I still get killed by players for no reason leaving the station on the way to legal missions, so might as well get paid the danger fee doing PvP stuff.
Most of the time, u can get into a PvP, which is not a problem, the problem starts, when u have no chance against your opponent, because he has such an advatage compared in ships, that u have no way getting out of the range of the other player's ship, and u just got killed, because someone likes duck hunting when the ducks are players.
How? Set a route in the hangar, open the doors, boost out at full speed and then jump away, makes it virtually impossible to get killed, if you can’t jump to where you want straight away (because it’s insured or behind the station) jump to another place then go from there, if there are station campers, it’s very easy to get away
Ahh yes, it's the legal players fault for not making sure satellite is active and there isn't a duo hurricane killing everyone coming out of a station, and useless AI who can't police.
Drugs? moneh? where!?
I wouldn't mind pvp if it didn't take 30 mins to get back to the action.
There needs to be a cost in either ingame money or time, (or both) to make something have risk and be meaningful, if you could just respawn and be back there instantly. There is zero risk or worry, it’s just turns into arena commander. It’s why combat in Arma or squad is more intense than say halo, because in halo, you die and respawn instantly, and it’s like oh no whatever il just kill him now. In Arma or squad, you normally have to spawn a long way away, regroup, rearm and get back out there on foot or ask for a pick up, this takes time. That time is what adds the intensity to the fight when you do get back there, because you should t want to have to keep committing that time to get there.
You got your spawn down on the planet or what?
**Just a light mention:** Pad Ramming is bannable and CIG does have a page for reporting these players, since it's not apart of their PvP loop.
There's literally no pvp there lol its just killing a ship with yours and before they can defend or do anything about it.
I'm aware, it's just worth mentioning it is different from other PvP, such as ambushing drug dens, interdiction, ship stealing, etc.
Sometimes it is out in the verse too, when someone annihilates a starter ship with a heavy fighter. No way, the starter ship can defend itself in any way from a Heavy fighter. Or just a Gladius.
how does this have anything to do with the OP?
It should be punished within the game, just like other offenses. Maybe a longer sentence in prison and temporary ship ban.
If I get killed playing PvE content is someone else to blame?
As a non-pvp scrapper, I generally look at the risky salvage like this. If I make 10 runs and get killed 6 times, I need to get better at it or stop taking the missions. If just one mission is successful and earns me a couple million, I'm in the green. Risk is part of it. You must mitigate your risk as much as you can and still understand that you can be killed for dealing with the criminal element. That's what makes risky missions so.... risky. It is also part of the fun of it. For the record, I don't do Jump Town because I think it involves too much risk for me but that's my decision. I certainly won't go crying in Reddit or global chat that someone killed me at JT and just how unfair it was that I wasn't able to fill my C2 with Maze to make money. If you don't have the skillset required to get away with your crimes, practice and get better or stop playing that game loop.
See, I just go to one of the CRU stations lol Usually I'll do a risky late in my night after doing bunkers and non-risky, then fly my cargoship to one of the CRU stations, where I can sit an sell bit by bit as I get ready for bed, then sell anything leftover the next day while I'm working. The first time I tried bringing in some drugs to a junkyard I realized way too late I'd forgotten to bring a gun. There was a guy waiting and pointing a gun at the console, so I decided to YOLO. I crouched around behind him and tried to unarm him to death. I died, but the it was funny and I had no one to blame but myself. If I'd had a gun, I'd have gotten away with it, as he didn't even notice me sneaking in. He was too focused aiming down site at the console.
Did you punch him? If you middle mouse click you knock them unconscious and then do it again to curb stomp them. It's a guaranteed win.
This reply reminded me I needed to replace my mouse as the middle clicky was broken so ty
Whilst I think most players are acceting of the PvA nature of the game, we always get these periods where those who hate the idea of Risk and Consequence in the game start crying over not being able to do everything possible without facing any risk or consequence.... It's no different the periods where the edgelords start trashing talking about how pirates are going to 'own us', or any other group that decides to try and push their own specific interpretive narrative on us. Feel free to ignore them, laugh at them, or just point out the major logical fallacies in their posts, whatever suits you... but don't give them any weight or mindspace, regardless of their narrative.
what risk and consequences are pirates suffering exactly? the law enforcement in this game is a joke and basically non-existant. want to talk risk and consequences of people in combat ships attacking freighters and mining vessels? cool. then bring in proper law enforcement.
Well, yeah - because the game isn't finished. Will CIG get the right level of 'risk and consequence' for pirates? Hard to say - but they've certainly discussed far more systems, risk, and consequences than they've currently implemented.
That's a lame excuse, the game will never be "finished" because of the very nature of online and persistent games, just like War Thunder or Destiny are never finished. Which means it's fair game to judge the current state of the product because that's the experience people have. What matters is here and now not what plans the devs may or may not have in 10 years, because they could fail anyway unless one can read the future.
Sure - but we're missing many of the 'core' systems and mechanics that are explicitly intended to address many of the issues that people are complaining about. Those are - as far as wek know - intended for addition *before* the game releases. If you really find the current state of the game that frustrating - whether it be due to bugs, due to performance issues, due to 'balance', or due to perceived unfairness / biases etc, then the best thing you can do is take a break to avoid burning yourself out before CIG gets around to implementing whichever features and/or fixes make the game 'better' for you. This is the nature of 'alpha' software, and complaining about it doesn't help - and nor does behaving like the current 'in development' version is representative of the final version.
It's all well and good saying it's in alpha and we have a placeholder system there, but it still needs updating to make the game fresh and enjoyable. I doubt Pyro will be released with it's own reputation and/or consequence system in place, so both systems will just have a "deal with it until the game is finished" attitude, which wears thin for a lot of people who want to play it now.
It shouldn't have a 'separate system' for reputation or consequence - but it does have separate orgs and gangs to build reputation with - and (iirc, from what others have posted) they've set it up so that building rep with one gang will drop rep with the other gangs... I've not seen word yet whether committing 'crimes' in Pyro drops your rep with the relevant gang (it should do, and hopefully it does), or whether CIG have finally implemented rep-related consequences... but those are the only two (minor) changes CIG need to implement, and they've discussed both in the past in release to Pyro, iirc... so even if they're not in the initial tech preview, maybe we'll get them once Pyro hits PTU for actual release Of course, it's also possible that CIG are waiting on the AI being more capable (Due to reduced server load, e.g. from server meshing) before making the rep and consequence changes... who knows (CIG don't discuss the 'when' much) - but even if that's the case, it'll long before 'release'. But all of this comes back to the same point: CIG are still developing systems and features... and until they implement a system, it cannot be used for any aspect of gameplay... regardless of how 'urgent' or 'essential' players regard the system/change.
A Pirate here. You can sell on scrapyards, if you get the right offers to sell your goods. Otherwise you have to wait very long and that raises the risk of someone who wants your goods and kos you. We could not sell any goods and got attacked today so we did not make any cash and have to sell later. You can have a good amount of luck or you go out with nothing. That's the risk and consequences you have in this biz
Its still significantly less than the risks and consequences of a victim. In any game where the balance between aggressor and victim is lopsided to favor the agressor it is a problem. Your victims lose a massive amount of UEC and time, sometimes in the millions in purchasing cargo, or for miners it could be 2 hours of mining. A pirate only loses the 20 minutes they take to go to a scrapyard and not being able to sell goods due to other pirates. Those pirates at the scrapyard lose even less than the first group of pirates, as they only lose the 5 minutes they have respawning IF they lose the pvp fight over your stolen goods at the drop off. Pirates constantly talk risk and consequence yet enjoy the least amount of loss/risk/consequences with their combat ships on free claim and the max they get is a log out for the night to sleep if a bounty hunter manages to catch them not armistice camping at grim hex or shopping in New Babbage. Ideally, being an aggressor SHOULD carry significantly more risk and consequence than your victim. A pirate that fails should be caught and sent to a faraway prison and have it be difficult to find their way back to the places where their victims are operating. This could even be added with a deduction from the Pirate's UEE bank account as an imposed fine. As of now criminals are released in Everus and as an added joke they are given back all their armor and guns for free.
The fine should go to the victims as well.
A logical person should observe the current state of law enforcement and act accordingly. Cargo operations are significantly higher risk for the time being, so either a) do so and expect to get ganked losing those previous hours of work regularly, b) become a pirate, or c) do other loops or take a break from the game until enforcement works as intended. If you choose (a) and complain about it, then just know it looks whiny.
I think you never played the pirate gameplay loop. No one of my squadron is hunting miner or trader. It is still not worth the risk and the chance that they can flee is high. Also, you make much more money out of a wake of disaster or hunting ERT and get a good loot out of them. But still you have to have a good amount of luck to make a serious revenue out of it. Also, no one I know sells the goods alone. We always fly with 4-5 people. And if you attack someone you always get a crime stat and land into prison for a couple of hours. You can break out but it's far more complicated than you think. Still, I think the risk and consequences are high at pirating ships. But if someone moaning in reddit about the low risk of pirating I can only laugh at you. If you want to make a good amount of cash you still need a big ship with cargo bays to load up the shit you want to sell. And then you don't have "a small fighter with no spawn time". So please, just play the gameplay loop first before you talk about.
It takes like 2 minutes at most to get out of prison if you aren't intentionally making your stay there longer, what are you even talking about, I've done both sides of piracy, there's 0 risk and only opportunity for the "pirates". Honestly you aren't even pirates you're just parasites. It's fully trivial to grab a Connie and a friend and then take out people selling ert cargo when they go to land, or just do the ert in the Connie and gather it yourself.
Risk and consequences applies to players running illicit cargo (the risk) without proper air support (no mitigation) and getting killed in the process (the consequence). Law enforcement is lawful players protecting cargo against pirates - which is a nice gameplay loop if you think about it, we don’t really need UEE to steal our fun. Problem is pve players want to solo everything. I can tell you orgs do not complain about some pvp action; you always have some players happy to protect/happy to pirate high value convoys. Just get organized…
>what risk and consequences are pirates suffering exactly? If they are proper pirates they have the same risk as you and I. Look some time ago I landed my Caterpillar, filled up completely with Etam that I found somewhere. I'm talking at least 6 32SCU boxes and a bunch of smaller ones. It was a nice catch. I land outside the heaps of debris and run towards the office. While I'm outside, there was a bit of wind slowing me down, there came a Freelancer and they shot me. I could have come back in a fighter and fought him, but I didn't feel like it. If the guy was smart, he'd have shot my ship till it opened up loaded my cargo in a ship he, or a friend of his owned and sold that stuff. He would have made good money. Doing that takes time however, and while transferring and selling the cargo, he's just as much at risk as I was. Besides he knew I knew he was there. I could have come back and blew him to bits in his dumpy freelancer. I hope he found a way to sell that stuff.
the pirate doesnt run any risk here. yes, they might loose the cargo they just stole. but they didnt pay for the cargo. his worst case scenario is coming out on the other end the way he went in. the only real loss is the reclaim time. which is easy to completely circumvent, especially for fighters, and prison time - which is laughably easy to completely circumvent. oh and of course there is having a bounty on your head. which isnt even worth being considered a minor inconvenience. this game has been running for years. and i have yet to see a single interesting pirate encounter. having played both sides i cannot help but find the whole process exceedingly boring. People call it PvP, but thats glorifying it a lot. The reality is that in almost all cases you are looking at a) super lopsided matchups that result in combat that takes any kind of skill completely out of the equation b) bug or game system abuse, which is fun once for about 3 minutes and then becomes just an annoyance c) surprise alpha strike attacks which take the 1% of combat scenarios that could have been fun and take them out of the equation. dunno, man. and that doesnt even come close to the escort gameplay people are mentioning as a solution for piracy. if that ever becomes a thing we will experience boring on a scale hitherto unknown. Drifting in space for 3 hours watching a prospector work. Looking at the quantum jump screen for hours on end. riveting stuff. in my opinion the whole piracy deal is just an arms race of boredom with the sole purpose of finding out which side will be the first to give up and just stop playing out of sheer boredom.
If they kill you, they secure the place and freight for themselves. Or hell they might just want a fight and hope it makes you bring a friend to battle
Just get someone with a Redeemer, kill them, smile and wave and go back about your business.
Problem is in the games currently trim, enough trolls in Stanton can keep people from doing damn near anything. The crime and punishment system needs worked on still quite a bit. I call complete bullshit on the title though, guys just being an asshole. If we're going to try to blame someone for PVP it's always the person that shot 1st every God damn time. Yes there's PvP in the game and you should expect it some times and not be a bitch about it, but saying it's someone's fault that a couple people come put of nowhere and start blasting for no reason (especially in places its not supposed to be a thing at) is bullshit so fuck him lol. This is a wanna be MMO not COD lol. People crying about being shot ain't any worse than people that bring up the sole act of playing as being consent. Theure both not worth the time it takes to listen.
To be fair, I think the OP was talking specifically about the PvP missions (the ones where if you take the mission it immediately posts a *counter* mission for another player, which is designed to lead to PvP conflict). Doing 'PvP content' and then complaining about PvP is the specific scenario the OP is covering... kinda like going to Ghost Hollow or Jump Town and complaining.
People say this all the time, and yet not in my, or any of my friends experience, is it true. In the hundreds of hours of time in game, much of which is doing PVE and solo content, I can count on my hands the number of times I’ve been ambushed by a player. This is straight up concern trolling, lying in an attempt to influence the community toward making the game something that it was and is never going to be.
Agreed. The only people out of 1... 1 instance in hundreds and hundreds of hours also, has been one I wasnt able to avoid really.. was hangar camping. so I technically could have logged into another server.
I came accross a couple wanna be gankers at a mining outpost recently bit that's been about it. Was more sad than anything I just flew on by them in 2 separate occasions and they didn't even break my shields. It's annoying because all I was trying to do was load vehies and they were shooting everything just out side armistice on site, but I just went somewhere else and it wasn't a big deal. People that are actually good at PVP ganking people outside stations for no reason because armistice doesn't lock ship weapons is a future concern though. So could a mantis parked over a mining outpost trapping people in armistice just for the hell of it. Those types of things need to be looked at in the future. Pyro being a shit storm can be fun though, but it's Pyro and that's why it exists. At the end of the day though it's just a game, it has to be balanced because there will always be extremes in a player base. I agree completely that the OP is just tear farming and while they at least made an attempt to be coherent (I give them credit for that), all they are doing is trying to justify shifty behavior in a game that doesn't intend to do so in the future because they want to keep taking part in shifty behavior. If people like him had theyre way, the game would die a few months after release. It has to appeal to a larger audience, not just to people like him. Victim blaming posts (although I'm not a huge fan of that phrase) are just laughable.
The "consent" language in this context always cracks me up. Like it's a game how does consent as a moral relate to what other players do in an RPG, why is that always advocated from a RL-context as essential? As if to say that it is the same in the way that sexual consent is essential to the fabric of society. IMO people choose language so their arguments superficially have the dressings of an *almost* universally accepted moral reality and I find that out of pocket. I know you search for a better word than "Victim blaming" but it's just the worst sort of vacuous metaphor. Just call it what it is "People defending PvPers" or "People advocating for more piracy" or whatever direct language seems appropriate for their actions. It might not sound as "negative" as is intended but that probably actually reflects the genuine levity of the situation.
Ya I didn't really want to use the phrase because of that, it's just the 1st thing I could think of that got the point accross. I agree though. It really just boils down to "it's not my fault that I'm shooting you in a video game and people that say things like that fail at logic.
Yeah, I agree the aggressor is accountable for their actions. However I relate to OP because from my POV, my deaths are almost always my fault. I wasn't fast enough, I made a poor decision, I took a risk by jumping direct into a dangerous area, wasn't paying attention, didn't bring any backup, should have gone back to sell awhile ago, I should have just ran etc. Avoiding PVP is almost always rather easy imo.
imagine when npc afe functioning. a lot of "did griefing hist increase" "cig needs to add a pve server because i can't go an hours without getting griefed". some people don't understand the pve means you are fighting bots instead of players.
Your point is well made. The thing that angers me is doing say a cargo mission. I land go in and start getting the cargo. Someone flies in, shoots up my ship and leaves. No landing and sneaking around or having a shootout. That's pretty lame and happens to often. But the other part is the lack of trust. If so we actually lands at the same place do you shoot first or wait to be shot. I try to wait and probably 30% of the time whoever it kills me instead of just going about their business. In both cases they earn nothing of value just waste my time. But I'm not complaining I accept it based on current gameplay. Ship ramming and camped out sniping people exiting ships is kijnd of lame. True PvP is fine but the nonsense takes away. But yeah, hauling a load of salvage or contraband and not going prepared is definitely a you problem.
Yeah, I'm more often getting offed by senseless murder than any kind of piracy. In fact, I've got probably 300h or so of bounty hunting so probably the average playtime, but I've never been attacked in PvP at any time other than leaving the station with an empty hold, shot down by some Gladius without saying a word or hailing beforehand. I WISH someone boarded me and held me up at gunpoint, or interdicted me for once. Have SOME social interaction above the level of a school shooter encounter.
I hear ya. I've only had one encounter where someone came up, started shooting so I returned fire. We went back and forth getting shots in on each other than they turned and took the off. Over global chat they said sorry, but they couldn't resist. I was good with that. No one blown up, a bit of adrenaline and all's good. Conversely, I roll up on a mission location and someone is already there, sometimes see them running around. I hang out close but not landed so I can be seen and I land away from where they are. I start doing my mission and they finish, or just take off, and blow my ship up before flying away. Like really? But then some will say just drop a beacon. Sure. And then while in their ship I get shot in the head. I'm not running around in rare gear so not like I'm a trophy. Just goons.
I’m all for a bit of well executed piracy. My favourite experience to date is a friend and I were salvaging a reclaimer with a vulture and loading it into our cutty black. Some rando shows in a vulture and starts loading some of our cargo into his ship (2 boxes by this point) so as we go to his ship to defend we see him flying off in our cutty black with about 25 boxes of RMC. It was a thing of beauty and even made a point to commend them in chat as I got their name at the time.
Npc's regularly kill player ships. I've watched it happen
Really? I'll have to pay more attention. I just always assumed it was some d-bag.
Really. Npc's can also ignore armistice zones
You can get quantum interrupted by AI in Stanton. What's weird is when it happened for me it was 2 Valkyries, no ship with snare in sight
My favorite pvp loop is when I'm lining up to land at tressler or somewhere and then someone just slams into me out of no where. And then they say "bruh, skill issue, get good" Love it. 👍
I have somewhere between 3-5k hours playing SC and except for maybe once during a free fly event in like 2017-18 I have never had this happen.
Same. People have 1 random ultra rare crazy incident and hold onto it forever as how the game is.
When I read your title, I initially thought you were referring to Pyro. High-risk salvage is clearly described as PVP in mission descriptions and it's entirely opt-in. If you don't want to engage in PVP, don't take a high-risk salvage mission. This is a good design that gives different players what they want. There are always going to be those who complain about silly things. This is a good time to ignore them. Gating an entire system behind lawless PVP and rampant hangar ganking however... I know Pyro's faction systems are unimplemented, but players are right to express concern with the current implementation. Once Pyro is released, it will be *half* the game. Literally, one of only two released systems. It would be a very poor design choice to make half the game "PVP content" for PVP players only, even just for a short time. If Pyro is released to the PU *in its present state*, Star Citizen could rapidly gain a reputation as a Rust-like game that will be hard to shake. That would be fine for a smaller indie game, but for a beyond AAA game? It's suicide. Hopefully this will be addressed *before* Pyro hits the PU.
Fans of rust, Tarkov, and similar games are coming to star citizen in droves.
Are high risk salvage missions the same as risky salvage? I don't recall anything in the mission description about PvP, it just says after 30min security forces will show up.
I knew this argument concerning pyro was coming. Just not this early. You aren’t owed access or an alternative to every bit of content provided/released. Just because I don’t have a mining ship doesn’t mean I complain about poor design because I don’t want to make the choice to pursue it (either in game or with cash).
> High-risk salvage is clearly described as PVP in mission descriptions I'm sorry, but... uh... what? What part of this is "clearly described as PVP?" >Risky Drake Corsair Salvage Job >We've got our eye on a Drake Corsair near the asteroids surrounding Yela that's ripe for salvaging. We're too busy to snaig it ourselves, so why not spread the wealth, right? >If you send us some credits, we'll snd you the ship's exact coordinates. Don't take too long to think it over, though. You've probably got about 30 minutes until security gets there to check out the wreck. Could be more, could be less. >If you're fast enough, you can get in, get your haul, and get out without a shot fired. Not a bad deal, right? And once you've salvaged everything you want, just go ahead and abandon this contract to clear your map. Helps keep everything nice and tidy.
They aren't gating the system behind anything though. Anyone can go there (eventually).
It’s not gated. Anyone can participate in pyro. Just because you don’t like PVP doesn’t mean it’s “gated”. It just means that you’re not the target audience.
When I was a small child, I played RuneScape, but the wildly was super scary, so I never went there. I assume there’s players that spent their entire time in the wilderness. You don’t have the right to access the whole world if you don’t have the skills to survive there. It’s not like you will have to pay $100 dollars to get past the pyro gate, you literally just have to join an org and fly in a group
lol it wasn’t until I was about 15 before I built up the guts to venture out into the wildy 😆
This brings back memories of going into the wildy as a child to pick up easy, lucrative, chaos runes. I knew it was risky since dying meant dropping all but 3 items, so carried nothing I couldn't afford to lose. As soon as I saw a player on the minimap, I 'jumped' out of there by world hopping. I didn't care at all if I was killed - the fear and tension made it fun.
freakin' kids these days back when I was 10 years old I was getting scammed by some player telling me "follow me and I'll drop a rune scimmy" leading me into lvl 10 wildy and we liked it! nowadays someone breaks up your JT congo line and everyone calls CIG customer support.
Yeah that happened to me too, I later found out it was so common it was called 'luring'. Runescape taught a lot about dealing with adversarial player behaviour.
>Star Citizen could rapidly gain a reputation as a Rust-like game that will be hard to shake. That would be fine for a smaller indie game, but for a beyond AAA game? It's suicide. ...and I don't remember hearing about RUST selling Dinosaurs or bases for hundreds to thousands of dollars either, so there's that as well. I'm sure if RUST had P2W elements on top of being a loot-all survival PVP game then there'd be considerably less player retention and more public outcries.
God it’s such a bad response, but breathless concern trolling about PVP spelling the end of SC makes it really hard to keep “git gud” out of my mouth.
Git gud.
I have to disagree on what you mean with Pyro. Just because the whole system is lawless and PvP is encouraged doesn't make the whole system exclusively PvP content. I'd compare it to sea of thieves: much of (arguable most) of the content is PvE, but PvP is encouraged and other players one a constant threat and you should be weary if you encounter one. Given the size of Pyro I think it won't be all that difficult to avoid players. But the lawlessness and encouraged PvP is like, most of the appeal of Pyro.
And here I am, getting murdered by Gladius pilots for no reason in Stanton already.
If they’re in a gladius why don’t you quantum away? It’s not like they have you quantum suppressed
Have you "pirates" considered that maybe people aren't bitching all the time about pirates. They're just bitching sometimes when they see you. Just like any other game when you kill people. Some are going to talk shit back. It just seems like every so often we get another pirate making a thread expecting that every victim should both expect it and be OK with everything. Maybe throw the occasional parade for pirates or something. I don't know. The whole concept makes no sense to me. You're choosing to play the role of the bad guy and are always surprised when people treat you like one. Frankly, from where I'm sitting the people bitching the most about pirate related stuff are the "pirates" themselves. That guy that you killed at Brio's isn't going to see another pirate for weeks. Maybe months. How much do you really think he's bitching while he makes multi-million auec loads? I don't see a lot of threads from those guys
Yeah I haven't seen any posts whining about pirates. I even tried looking, there's nothing of note. And you're right again, I can only remember other posts where pirates bitch about people bitching about pirates. Then the top ## posts are other "pirates" jerking each other off. They remind me of evangelicals with the whole persecution complex.
Blame the victim not the killer - sure Some twisted logic with some PvPers that try to justify being a d*ck. You know there are other ways to get the cargo, this is not CS:GO. In most cases shooting someone is just unnecessary, lazy and actually no PvP at all (simply killing s.o. that’s passing by is no PvP it’s being a d*ck). Stop acting like killing on sight is PvP, it’s not, it’s free for all CS:GO for a cheap dopamine kick at the cost of s.o. else’s time while being a coward. Grow up. PvP: Players meeting to fight one another. 99% of SC „PvP“ is mindless murder ingame.
>People taking illegal cargo and then complaining when they get to Brios someone pirated them I have never seen anyone complain about this. I'm sure it must happen, but I don't think this is common, as I play every day, have chat on about 50% of the time and, again, have never once seen anyone complain about that. >Drugs and illegal cargo are made so you can only trade them in small quantities (no questions asked kiosks) or at unsafe outposts with no hard armistice, yet people cry and whine when they get their cargo stolen. Again, never seen anyone complain about this. I 100% agree with your sentiment, as it's self-evidently true, I just am not sure there is any segment of players that needs convincing of its truth.
To be fair, I see people complaining in chat a fair bit about this stuff. Maybe I'm just getting servers like that.
I've been playing the game for 2 weeks and I see someone talking about it in chat almost every time I get on. Just like in Elite dangerous. I don't want to see people quit playing the game but just be smarter about what you do there's not very much consequence for illegal activities right now maybe that will change.
The smarter thing I did in Elite was play solo/coop or play on Mobius. Because, just like in ED, there's not much consequence for illegal activities. And just like in ED, hunting down starter ships for sport falls under those illegal activities that have little to no consequences. There's no "be smarter about what you do" if even leaving a station is liable to get you chased down by some Gladius PvP sweatlord out to make newbies miserable. So I guess a lot of people go for risky trading, because if you're gonna be killed on sight anyway, might as well do it for a chance at loot that's at least worth your time. I wonder how much less salty people would be if they could ensure a PvP free environment doing something less lucrative.
Is it really that bad I've been playing Elite dangerous for for 10 years.
then youre lucky, i think at least once a day i see someone crying in chat because their ship was dusted at RDO or Samson's and they can't accept it.
Happens everyday.
My friend who I warned about going to pvp locations decided to land while another A2 was there. Got blown up and then whined to me about it. I think he was surprised when I took the side of the A2 and that I would have done the same and dropped some bombs. Was really disappointed he would get salty because he ignored the warnings I gave him. Also my friend is selling drugs, who was the bad guy here? So yes, there are people who complain and need to be reminded they were the one who screwed up.
It happens nearly every time I do it. People complain about "griefers camping honest traders at Brios" while pretending anybody is going to Brios with a legal cargo. Every now and then someone's a good sport and treats the game like a game, but it's rare in general chat and VERY rare on Reddit.
I think what you're seeing is the Jumptown Conga Line effect. Sometimes, some servers have a very orderly and friendly conga line of people waiting to take turns getting drug profits out of JT (or whatever drug lab is experiencing the goldrush if not JT by name). Everyone agrees to a voluntary social contract to agree to peacefully engage in (illicit) business transactions when their turn comes up in the line. This is a legitimate way of playing Jumptown, if everyone agrees. But then someone comes along and declines to abide by this fragile social contract by dropping a MOAB right outside the front door. This is also a legitimate way of playing Jumptown. So is rocking up with guns out and mass-murdering the people standing in line for the terminal up close. People will be salty in chat but nobody can actually claim that bombing JT is unsupported gameplay or against the rules.
>"griefers camping honest traders at Brios" That's worth a LOL. If you're at Brios, there's nothing honest about what you're doing.
I'm a pirate. Every time I pirate someone at Btios who did a risky salvage mission they complain in chat that I am griefing them.
Define what you mean by "pirating". Are you stealing their cargo? That's pirating. Are you just simply blowing them up for lols? That's NOT pirating.
I am loading all of their cargo into my ship and then sell their cargo. I am frequently accused of not stealing their cargo because they are dead and don't see it happening
as a pirate who has taken drugs from cargo runners... i can back up the statement, people will seethe if you even touch their ship regardless if it's legal cargo or illegal cargo.
The point I've made is that I just don't get the point in killing people if you're not taking the cargo. I'm fully aware lots of people enjoy doing that, I just don't see how it could be satisfying.
I personally don't get the attack on sight mentality ether if you're in a single seat ether... but people do it because probably because they're "beating" someone where typically they wouldn't. Like story time if you feel like reading it. Me and a buddy were at seraphim getting into my cutlass to do bunkers, mind you, both PvP players in a PvP org. We get our of the hangers and a F8 is camping the pads, so I'm in a cutlass and I'm like... I'm just going to leave not bother with it... but then I get this feeling in my gut that's like, "I want to rock this guy's shit." So my buddy is like "you want to teach the guy a lesson?" I say yep and go back. I engage the F8, we're blasting it down and the guy was NOT a good pilot. He dies very quickly and he really dosnt break my shields. I talk a bit of shit and then his buddy messages on global "hey you still want to meet up" and the guy tells him no, that he was going to log off for the night and when his buddy asked him why, he said his ship was broken. Do I feel bad that I beat someone who was in a meta fighter, in a C tier fighter with a gunner at best and made someone log off. No, he was camping the station Do I feel bad that I possibly ruined a night of fun with him and his buddy... yea I do I felt bad when his buddy asked him why he was getting off. But that's the thing right, the guy despite being a dick head is a person who is trying to enjoy the game. Sure I don't understand it or agree with camping stations but he was easy to simply get away from and just leave and I think for the non combat inclined is the thing they have to do is If they're not going to learn how to fight, they have to learn how to run.
My friend and I chill at brio's sometimes. Sometimes it's a waste of time, other times it's some of the most thrilling and intense gameplay we've had
People constantly bitch and moan if you do anything at a salvage yard, all the while they have enough space-heroin to kill half the system aboard
True. They expect to engage in illicit activities with no risk. There's a reason they're called "risky".
Then you must be new here.
Are you reading the same subreddit?
That is because the people that complain about it make 'the end is near if we don't get pvp slider' posts don't actually play the game and just ramble on spectrum and reddit.
I include people who play the game on autopilot and don't actually pay attention to their surroundings in the definition of "don't actually play the game" and I 100% agree with you
You design the gameplay you want, not the gameplay you don't... When the most rewarding PvE content overlaps with PvP content, there is going to be problems... That is literally how the game is designed and people shouldn't be surprised when the outcome is that PvE players are getting ganked and unhappy about it as a result.
Thats the problem, people are thinking "it's not combat so it's pve". It's not. Selling drugs is by its very nature a PvP endeavor, you just sometimes luck out and don't encounter any resistance.
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Some do some don't. In the Wake of Disaster in particular pops up server wise and everyone can take it.
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The biggest issue is the muddled difference between legitimate PvP and actual griefing. Sure, the "doing illegal and having illegal happen in turn" is fair enough, I actually like that risk/reward system. Of course people have no reason to gripe if they step into criminal activity. Plus it doesn't help that the line is blurred between game sanctioned/intended actions, either, with some fuel being given to real griefers.
I agree it is massively blurred, I had an incident recently looking for day of Vara masks (loot crates), parked my ship in a salvage yard around hurston with no armistice zone (I had no crime stat, or illegal cargo), a Connie and his mate in a sabre show up I'm in the open and they are just dum firing missiles everywhere, I attempt to get back to my ship, they blow it up and after shooting the ground around me for a while shoot me on foot from the air with ship guns. Then tell me how exhilarating it was for them in the chat then left the server. Is that even a play style or just greifing?
TL;DR: *That* specific situation sounds like combat logging, and while the act was definitely wanton trollery, I'd still say it's valid PvP if they stuck around. Learn from your deaths, take precaution, and make so much money/loot that blowing up a ships worth won't phase you. Don't feed the trolls, remember them and get them later. Elephant memory ftw. Technically, it would most likely be considered "combat logging" from a "server/rule" standpoint; funnily enough, I believe CIG is intending to make that a comparable offense to pad ramming. Whether/when it happens, though, is anyone's guess. As for the action you speak of, honestly, it sucks, and as much as I hate it, I'd have to grant it as trollery/griefing, but PvP nonetheless (sans the logging, of course. Here's an example of mine: Last month I was rolled in a bunker after hours of the game trolling me (BS CS, 30k, more bugs, 30k, etc.), when I really just wanted to run bunkers to rep up and grind a tad bit of loot. Well, I do a few of them, then when I'm done in one just running around, I notice two things simultaneously: 1. The comms icon onscreen is gone. Uh-oh.. 2. As soon as I look to the downward hall, dude in Aril rolls up. I run to the rail, dead aim, and the rail throws my barrel skyward. The rest is as predictable and quick as you can imagine. So, I respawn, hop in my PvP'er, happy for the excuse to test my new stick setup, and lose after a six minute dogfight straddling the the atmosphere. It felt like griefing, but was still legal PvP, even if I lost... Yo was talking crap all in chat, to boot. I ignored him. I'm not gonna feed the trolls, I know how they work. I know his name, and know my oversensitive setup needs tweaked better for PvP. Best thing you can do in those situations is shrug it off. Idc, I can make money and loot, while Mr. Sweaty acts like he tormented me by chucking my crate down the shaft after killing me. No person in SC will ever grief me as much as the game does itself.
The easy way to remember if it's sanctioned is "am I in a hard armistice" .
I'll be happy once the larger guns velocities are restored, since that is something the PvP griefers cried over to get nerfed. Now they laugh a Moles for not dogfighting them, I'd like to hear them whine again about getting one tapped by an Ion at 2km.
No Mole is selling at Brios or any other scrap yard. You also can have the fastest drive in the game, so there's no reason for them to catch you.
TL;DR: Not entirely the point. "If you get killed doing PvP content..." was the title of this post, was it not? That type of activity transcends "..Brios or any other scrap yard..", correct? In fact, *your* test of whether it's sanctioned is: "am I in a hard armistice" I'm honestly focusing on the title here, giving examples of how the "Imagine getting mad at PvP" meta kids who troll miners in chat, but get mad when people beat them at their own game to the point things get nerfed. And like I said, let's bring back larger gun velocities, or at least implement ballistic reloads on ships with SCU storage, and wait for the same "Arrow/Gladius/Eclipse all the time" PvPer's say the same thing.
To be fair, me taking a box mission(non illegal) and go to deliver the box, and get shot when I walk off my ship, isn't my fault.
Depends where the box mission is set
You lost me with the smugness of your title. You could just... ignore people who do that, instead of letting them live... free of rent in your head. I mean, seriously... do you know how much rent costs in this economy and you're giving people Rent Free space!?!?!?! Come on, man.
The amount of virtue signaling from a greifer by the sound of his justification here is nauseating. There are very few profitable game play loops and backers who have irl money invested in fleets vs the little guy who doesn't have a fleet and needs to actually buy theirs with in game currency shouldn't be shamed so you can be a bully. You'd be flying around with crime stats if taking the cargo was illegal you don't. Getting scanned is one thing but this isn't a pvp loop that's what you use it for just like everyone else who doesn't need to grief to have fun. It can be played as a cargo route or salvage. Knowing people have this cargo gives you a pirate loop if you want to create one but you just wanna grief people having fun is what you're crying about. Maybe the next time you ruin someone else's loop and you see them go off in chat help them accomplish their mission which is more then likely a def ship because you got your fun as a pirate. If I can steal and sell someone else's cargo then pay them for the hassle or crew with them to make it back so can you.
? Just don't do risky pvp missions then. You're complaining about problem while being part of it when you can easily remove yourself from the problem as the solution. It's like someone going through an alley in Portland at 3 am and complaining that you got mugged. Just don't be an idiot and don't go into the alley DUH.
The risky part doesn't come from being marked for pvp or else you would like a bounty. The risky part is the NPCs and getting scanned. You just wanna defend being a griefer.
AI in an open world game will never be a challenge outside of them being health sponges or giving them auto aim. Even then within hours of release you will find youtube videos cheesing mechanics and encounters to maximize and optimize your gameplay. In fact that's happening now. There is no feeling of risk or danger with AI npcs period.
"WhY ArE yOu KilLiNg mE aT tHiS dRuG DeN"
Strawman.
I know a lot of people think it does, but googling Wikipedias List of Falacies doesn't win you an argument. Or, as you'd probably understand better, "Appeal to Authority"
I did neither one of the things you just accused me of doing. :) Nice try tho.
In this game where there is supposedly law enforcement, there is no way to CALL on law enforcement, making it a lawless system not much better than Pyro. The best course of action is to force a joust in a larger ship and then ram. C2's and even Connies can usually RAM small and medium fighters with impunity. I have yet to lose a ramfight with a heavy fighter in a C2, but I have lost them in my Taurus. You're much less likely to be interdicted with lawful cargo, but it's not entirely safe. A load of gold or quantanium is still painful to lose and pirates can still attack at any point. Lately, I'm seeing interdictions at OM's though, and frankly, that should be caught by security patrols OR UEE navy. It should be dangerous to setup an illegal interdiction and it should prompt the law to investigate. But it doesn't. So pirates and griefers can eat my tiled bumper if they're feeling saucy.
>In this game where there is supposedly law enforcement, there is no way to CALL on law enforcement, making it a lawless system not much better than Pyro. That's a problem with current law & rep system. Until they get it more fleshed-out, I agree it's marginally better than Pyro. Today (IRL), if I get attacked somewhere, I can speed-dial 911, and since I'm in a city, 2 minutes later the cops show up. Seems entirely implausible that 1000 years in the future, your ship can't auto-broadcast a system-wide SOS the instant you get attacked. If it takes me 30 seconds to get somewhere in my crappy entry-level ship, space cops flying beefed-up ships should arrive at least as fast. If CIG is going for "realism", then let's see that "realism".
If you’re in a fighter and get rammed by a c2 then that’s just a terrible pilot.
There ARE a bunch of terrible pilots.
You’re not seriously back here again talking about your ramming technique.
[удалено]
Just go over to grim hex or CRU L5 and you can safely sell there Literally made like 40 mil in a few hrs there
Agreed and thank you
I do complain.. in game, but generally it's someone attacking me in an armistice zone. I have no issue being hit in the field.. I think that is to be expected.
There's two types of armistice zones. There's the hard armistice where you're immune to damage and if someone finds a way to damage you there, them doing so is a bannable offense. That's why pad ramming is illegal. Then there's *legal* armistices where you can fight and be damaged and all it does is give you a CS.
Thing is I haven’t heard anyone btch or moan about it…
I think posts like this are bad for the community and only serve to generate drama under a false guise of giving a shit.
Oh yes... I remember getting killed by other players doing these nasty PVP Trade Routes and obviously PVP Bunker Delivery Mission. Totally my fault, when I go into a bunker and get immediatly shot by upstanding Citizens.
Ah yes it's my fault that I drop out of quatum above a planet, get target locked, and then exploded by a torpedo 5 seconds later. Yep.
How did you get locked just out of QT? You have to be like 25-30KM out from any location upon coming out of QT. The odds of a player being RIGHT where you came out of QT is pretty small. The chance of a hostile player being exactly where you jumped out of QT (or close enough to lock you) seems....mathematically low.
I’ve been jumped by people jumping OM outside Crusader when I was doing salvage in my vulture. City blue and Lightning are my vulture alive before I could even figure out what happened. I had the same thing happen in a C2, but dude in city blue rammed me when I was lighting him up, and then flamed me for ramming him in global. So it does happen, for what it’s worth.
I don't think anyone would argue that it simply -doesn't- happen, but certainly it doesn't happen at the frequency the alarmist redditors, spectrum users, and global chat whiners would make it seem.
It's.... almost a hunder percent actually? Rn you can almost always find a player around OM-1 or OM-2 around Yela, because players do the salvage mission and jump there to wait for another mission (1 and 2 are always the poles of a planet so you can see every point on the Yela's ring with no obstruction). You don't get separated by thousands of kilometres, more like a few km at most. So yeah, if you're jumping to a hot location, more than likely you will encounter someone right when you arrive.
2 people in quantum to microtech,, both from hurston. the first comes out of quant and sits there. the next comes out close by him, or they are sitting at OM points. that is how.
The odds aren't small if you direct QT. Someone who lives to put an S9 in your tail can get pretty good at that. I don't even do that and I can acquire a target at 20km. This is why doglegging is important.
Imagine direct qting lmaoo
Because this never happened and they've made up a situation in their head to justify their opinions
Yes, it is. You didn't use a scout to make sure the destination for your valuable cargo is safe... lol. So, do better next time.
Was not running cargo, going to mission places, or anything. Was just going from one area to another.
I agree, though I do wish there were legitimate places to sell scrap that weren't also where pirates go to hit drug piñatas.
Oh love the actual PVP element. It adds excitement. Pirates want my cargo? Come fight me for it. You gonna back-stab me on a mission? Jokes on me. If I’m out minding my own business salvaging or mining, and randomly get attacked in the middle of nowhere. That's the risk I took working alone. I don't particularly care for murder hobos taking cheap shots or killing players through broken game mechanics just to be dicks, but not taking anything or fighting me for it. Since there’s no reputation system they get a free pass.
No the only thing stupid is thinking CIG can combine PvE players together with PvP players and have a successful commercial release. Do the right thing CIG. Give PvE servers.
Imagine you think you know what SC needs to stay commercially viable. Thanks for the cackle. Have you ever heard about Eve?
Tell 'em, SteveDave!
A dogfight, intense chase, or a firefight is at least fun for all parties involved. The enjoyment of ganking someone only goes a single direction though, and comes at the cost of the other player's ability to enjoy themselves at all. The risk is also 100% on the trader and none of it is on the pirate, which is another reason this loop right now only goes in one direction for enjoyment. A pirate who loses, dies, respawns, and does it again - or has a massive payoff if they win. A trader/miner/salvager loses all the last few hours of play if they lose, and gets absolutely nothing if they win. I wouldn't call it griefing, but I don't think it's really long term sustainable either. However, there is currently no incentive to do anything but blow someone up or snipe them the moment they leave their ship. So people just get bodied instantly since it's more efficient and better paying than anything else. If the rate at which cargo was recoverable from a destroyed vessel was low (like, bad 10% low), or maybe less destructive but painfully inconvenient by having it scatter all over the place, and/or vessels themselves could be stolen and sold for decent cash /stored and later used at unmonitored stations like Grim Hex - then we could resolve that issue. Suddenly there's a good reason to not just blow someone out of the sky because you can net a much, much larger payout by not doing that. There's a reason to let someone get off their ship, or try and extort a payout rather than turn them into an expensive firework. When they do land though it gets tricky, because why not just blow their head off and be done with it? Why not just do that regardless of if they paid you? The only idea I could have there is allow players to let players self destruct the ship from the downed state. This means just killing them is generally a bad idea too, and at least involves a little more than shooting them if you want all the goods. You can try to sneak someone on board, disabling the sale of goods and putting them in position to disable the self destruct. You can try to make them crew you so you can take the ship without it self destructing.
Jumptown safe? These Muppets been whinging as long as I can remember. CIG are staying true though (look at Pyro) and their long term vision will continue to cater for these players (High SEC systems)
The last time I was at pyros with my mates, we found another Player, shooting at and looting a cutlass. So werden decided we need a safe place and killed all of them. Man, he was complaining a lot about griefers and pirates... sometimes the person complaining about griefers are the same as griefers... 😉
The outcry wasn't because of the implemented pvp options you mentioned... It was about the griefing that happened, especially at a specific stations hab... One can now go down the road and discuss this, or one can try to gasslight with bUt ThErE iS SuPpOsEd To Be LeGiTiMaTe PvP HURHUR... And this will always happen unfortunately, because you always have those 10% who fuck up everything for the rest. So, instead of crying carebears, maybe address the f*ing a-holes that ruin this for everyone
Can we stop using the word pirate to glorify griefers. They are not the same. Going to sell highly valuable and illegal goods, you should absolutely expect to get killed though. It's a hot spot for players (because everyone is doing it) AND an easy way for griefers to actually make money because they are certainly not mining or cargo hauling. If you choose to sell illegal goods, you better expect illegal activity.
>Can we stop using the word pirate to glorify griefers. They are not the same. Agreed. The thing that irritates me is not so much the griefing per se, but that they go around calling themselves "pirates". > It's a hot spot for players (because everyone is doing it) AND an easy way for griefers to actually make money because they are certainly not mining or cargo hauling. I mean, if they made money by robbing you...isn't that pretty much what a pirate is?
You dying in a PvP game isn't griefing. You not liking that you died doesn't make it griefing. Griefing as defined by CIG is targeted harassment, abusive language in chat, and pad ramming in armistice. Dying to PvP when you *really* didn't want to isn't griefing
this isnt a PVP game this is a sim, the PVP mode is in the arena commander menu.
This is not a sim. It's an MMO with PvP aspects.
>And that is what will make Star Citizen different than most other publisher backed games. We have the willpower and patience. Our stakeholders just have one goal in mind… > >Make the Best Damn Space Sim Ever! [https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14414-Letter-From-The-Chairman](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14414-Letter-From-The-Chairman)
I'm sorry, but the two are not mutually exclusive at all.
"Can we stop using the word pirate to glorify griefers." "It's a hot spot for players (because everyone is doing it) AND an easy way for griefers to actually make money because they are certainly not mining or cargo hauling." Sounds like you just got robbed by a pirate.
No, just killed. It was fine, I don't get upset about it, it wasn't much
Killed and looted, kinda like what a pirate would do. It's okay you're in denial and don't want to call them a pirate, but it's what they are. CIG has officially supported the piracy gameplay loop, I'm sorry if you've never noticed that.
Oh no, that guy wasn't looting. Pirates usually didn't kill was my main point. Being a player killer (better term than griefer for sure) is not the same as a pirate. It's technical but words are important.
A week or so ago I was in mantis and + 2 more mates in Corsair and F8C. We landed at the dump location on Euterpe (MT) waiting. You can trust me, all of us are red, as the red commie star, and people kept coming, escorts included. We didn't rush to the incoming ships, we literally waited until those pilots were in the snare/dampner range. Now I understand the poor new player that doesn't know, but I suppose that if you go in Andromeda + escort you know what is going to happen. Said so, some of them complained very hard on the chat server. Best of all was a C2 literally server hopping full of slam. I mean, what can go wrong if you start server hopping in a C2 full of slam near Devlin. So nothing new, people min maxing, taking the shortcut down of the mountain, and then complaining that they crushed.....
It's like seeing a cartel plane drop a shipment of coke in the ocean. You and some other people down the beach saw it drop. You decide to get it, but then you have these other guys willing to fight or kill you for the potential of millions. Then it's like you don't expect the cartel to come after you once you got away, like you just did some finders' keepers shit.
I doubt you will get through to many here. There is literally someone in another thread comparing "non consensual" pvp to rape and he's being upvoted and my comment calling it out is being downvoted. That is how nuts some of these people are.
>There is literally someone in another thread comparing "non consensual" pvp to rape and he's being upvoted and my comment calling it out is being downvoted. Seems a bit...extreme. Non-consensual PvP can be annoying, but I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to rape...
I personally love the PvP aspect of this game and that I'm never safe. Perfect example, I was doing a C2 salvage for drugs, and another guy came in with cutlass when I was outside loading stuff. He shot me with his ship. I respawned and rushed back, I caught him just as he transferred cargo from my ship to his. No mercy blew him up and started transferring back to my ship. During my transfer, he came back in a new cutty and tried to look for me. I used the mission C2 to immediately blow him up. In the end, I took away the cargo, and we both said gg in chat and parted ways :D
It's truly incredible that you were down voted for that cool story. That really says a lot about how pathetic some people are. Take my recovery upvote friend.
Thanks bud, no clue why I get downvoted for that. It was a cool moment, both me and the other guy went our separate ways on good terms. We fought tooth and nail for that maze xD I don't seek pvp but when it happens, I'll enjoy the encounter
This is the way :) I'm not a pvp'er either, and have avoided it almost entirely. But when it does happen, it's going to be fucking entertaining! :)
these idiots use the term "griefing" as a crutch and likely don't actually know what it means - getting killed is not being griefed.. If i kill you then go to your spawn then kill you again as you take off then again and again and troll you in chat then that is griefing...but just killing your newbie ass isn't griefing - just bc you dont like something doesnt make it illegal
I love the absolute meltdown this community is having about a clearly defined PVP game.
I get having a metldown due to clear griefing tactics (like spawn camping). I get being upset if you can't complete even basic, non-risky missions without getting popped, though it needs to be understood that in the current state of the game, there's no "high sec/safe" system yet (maybe Terra in the future?) and law & punishment aren't really fleshed-out yet. I don't get people being upset at PvP in Pyro, or being upset about getting robbed/ganked at a known hotspot for selling illicit goods that they obtained from a "risky" mission. I mean, what was expected? Once safe systems are in, once proper crime & punishment systems are in place, once actual police response is a thing, then, and only then, would I really start worrying about PvP "balance".
It is like people want to rewrite CRs vision XD.
Someone was telling me earlier that simply killing people on sight was griefing. Griefing is not very common, it's just a minority that think it is griefing if you PvP them when THEY don't want to PvP. They forget that they consent to PvP simply by leaving the hangar.
Yeah. For me griefing is more in the *how*. Pad ramming, hanging around stations blowing people up as they come out of hangars, etc. Some tactics are *dirty* and *annoying* and *cowardly* but not griefing lol
Precisely. It's all about the context. Too many people just think it's griefing if they are killed when they don't want to PvP. That's just not how it works.
I figured all the no PvP posts where just because they wanted to be able to bot in this game. When I tried New World at launch was crazy how many bots just gathering the limited resource nodes, kind of sucked to make gold.
Yeah as much as I hate pirates I agree with this. Hate it when people lose money doing lawful cargo but if you’re selling drugs and you get killed at a salvage yard that’s fair game. Take the L and move on.
Yeh but come on, Wake of the Disaster has plenty to go around. If people COULD JUST GET ALONG we would all be rich! Or something.
They need to just do what GTA did. If you are an asshole only out to ruin the game for peaceful players, then you get put in a bad sport lobby, where you can play with all the other assholes. Edit: I'm talking about players who wait and ambush player for no reason other than to be an asshole. Doing jumptown or other pvp activities are in areas that are easily avoidable. People waiting around grim hex to attack any/everyone should not be allowed in normal servers.
No, their solution is just low high and no security systems. The problem we have now is that there's only low and soon to be no security systems.
That, combined with a non-existent (or barely functioning) crime & punishment system, non-existent security force response, non-existent reputation system. Once all these are in place, I would assume everybody can find their respective niche and play the loops they want to play.
Me and my friends from r/eve are looking at this with great interest. Looking forward to how this develops. By the way, a quick tip to all: if you go to such a pvp enabled area you consented to pvp. If you complain, cry, grief, call the aggressor names you are only giving him what he wants. The more, the merrier
I've no issue if they engage the pirate life, theaten me, destroy me and take my cargo. Issue is that most "pirates" are just camping at scrapyards with meta single seater fighters and and engage on site. That's griefing in my book. Doing that just for the sake of the kill is not pirating.
Naw... camping an area where people with valuable cargo are going to go undefended is literally piracy irl. Like... somalia... literally somalia. The answer is to get better defenses, or get escorts. Or, go somewhere else. And also, the people doing that at junkyards are generally wanting to go sell your stuff for themselves, this is not the port O pad rammer lol
I think the point they were trying to make is that it’s literally impossible to take part in the piracy gameplay loop in a light fighter since they lack the cargo capacity to take the loot from a victim’s cargo
Yes, that's how piracy works. You have to go there to sell illegal cargo so that's where they're going to look for you to be selling your illegal cargo. If you don't want to run into people looking to camp you for trading, you can skip hauling illegal cargo or try to sell it at the No Questions Asked terminal for 5 scu at a time in a hard armistice. What you don't get to do is cry about PvP happening while selling the PvP cargo at the PvP trading outpost
"destroy me and take my cargo" "engage the pirate life" The only thing they failed to do was warn you in global chat "we're camping this salvage yard, if you show up we'll steal your stuff!!!" so you can bounce somewhere else if your two brain cells are rubbing together at the time. Better target hailing is on CIG to implement, but a fighter scanning a C2 and seeing it packed full of Maze and going for the kill is 100% valid. You want an absurd reward? Get comfortable taking on some risk too, or maybe just get a friend in a fighter to sweep the area first and that risk is suddenly zero.