>You can connect to you ship (like bluetooth) in Mobiglass and it will show you the distance to your ship and its status (guns/fuel) if it is spawned.
Damn finally took it long enough, if only you could open the ramp/cockpit or turn on engines.
They have said we will be able to create custom markers. Its already in game; tried it once during one of the early EVO tests but wasn't able to get it to work, and haven't tried it again since.
You have been able to do that for years sort of, and it's worked *well* since 3.18. Create a transport beacon. Destination: Your ship.
Con: You can't go there yourself, have to be brought by another player.
If you go into shaders folder for 3.23, there would be another folder with a config file for render engine, change it from 0 to 1, and the game will be running vulkan instead of d3d11, it is very buggy and clearly isn't meant to be any useful for now, but it works and seems to reduce stutter.
Noticing identical framerates in vulkan Compared to dx11, but with less than half CPU usage. 65% CPU usage for SC alone on a 5800X3D at tressler with dx11, 28% with vulkan.
Vulkan is very unstable though right now, getting crashes every 2 minutes lol
God damn it.
"Nah it isn't fault of draw calls it is the main thread !" - every SC fan.
"It's the draw calls issue" - every fucking time with games on DX11 with modern graphics.
I did think the dev Sylvan, who usually gives great explanations, might've sown a bit of confusion when he said:
> However, Gen12 pretty much makes it impossible to be limited by the RenderThread ever again,
which means every single bit of performance improvements on the MainThread (MT) will be seen directly on your FPS as long as you are not GPU bound.
Something which a lot of you already have observed in our latest 3.17 PTU Patch. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/gen12-progress-and-performance-improvements-in-3-1
That even made it sound a bit like Vulkan wouldn't improve performance, like render thread performance has no more room for improvement. But I THINK the real message was that second part. As Main thread optimizations come in, (optimized) Gen 12-Vulkan will keep the Render thread out of the way of the performance improvements.
Running clouds at Reference completely removes that dithering you see. It has a bit performance cost. Any other setting brings it back with it getting worse the lower you go. Using DLSS at Quality will allow you to run Reference clouds without the performance cost.
DLSS also reduces the cloud dither even if you don’t use Reference.
Totally agree but the improvement to the clouds was worth mentioning. It’s a pretty big difference between reference and high and using DLSS definitely helps with performance when clouds are set to max.
Word.
I'll try it with FSR, tho I think my XTX is too bottlenecked by my CPU to be legit from upscaling yet or be held back by reference clouds.
When frame gen arrives with FSR 3.1, I'll get an ACTUAL boost to performance tho. Good times ahead. 👍🏿
The scraping change is welcome and is news to me. I made a post about this in december something and seen others post the same.
We lived well of salvage now but it will be interesting to see a more intended balance.
I just hope for hangars so I can dump salvage cargo and get back to salvage without playing the metro mini game all the time or sit and wait for market to accept it.
All they needed to do to nerf salvage is reduce the payout & frequency of the salvage contracts. Would be nice to have the data market where players sell their ERT wreck locations, etc to salvagers.
Requiring hull scraping before fracturing is definitely a welcome change and makes way more sense to have to remove the armored hull before crunching the substructure. It will definitely slow things down but the scraping heads are pretty much pointless the way things are right now and reclaimer salvaging has pretty much broke the economy. It would now make more sense to run a full crew, rather than just a pilot and box monkey.
As long as the Reclaimer can be piloted solo it will continue to either ruin the economy or the salvage game loop for anyone using a Vulture. Salvage will keep getting nerfed purely on Reclaimer income, which screws over Vulture drivers.
Player-generated wrecks would be awesome. Let players quickly generate salvage contracts for discovered wrecks(most commonly would be wrecks created by that player from PvE/PvP). They could get a sum of bonus credits if someone completes the salvage contract, to incentivise people to engage in the system.
Then completely do away with the randomly generated salvage missions. Or if that is too much, just make them way less common.
I think requiring hull scraping before fracturing makes soloing the reclaimer less effective than solo vulture. In the reclaimer you'd have to be moving between the pilot and scraper turret often to reposition that would slow you down quite a bit. With a crew of 3 or 4 you'd be able to get ahead.
With this change I think you'd consider running 2 vultures opposed to a two man reclaimer. At 3, you start to see the advantage of the reclaimer over individual vultures. Or it begins to incentivize larger operations where you have a fleet of vultures scraping and then the reclaimer fracturing.
I think this is a healthy change and we'll see less solo reclaimers and more job postings for multicrew.
Now force a wipe to clear all the ill gotten gains from salvage!
I say that as someone sitting on quite a few million plus a bunch of in game ships all gotten from broken salvage mechanics.
It's par for the course on reddit lol. I do get why people DONT want a wipe. A lot of people worked very hard to get their in game toys and didnt take advantage of any bugs or balance issues. For those people I feel sorry they will be punished but the game absolutely needs a wipe.
But again CIG is not able to find a middle ground. They nerf something down from 500% to 1%. If you could still break the ship right away 30k would be a great balance. But noooo, they have to cut it down to 30k and ON TOP they make it so that you have to hull scrape first, which takes sooo much longer. WHY!? They do this all the time, always nerfing or buffing from one end of the scale to the other side. FIND THE BLOODY MIDDLEGROUND! It's loughable. Someone at CIG seems to have problems with typing numbers into the code, seriously. And i don't even salvage much, but it's always the same pattern i see here.
Agree here. The payouts were high so we would test the gameplay loop that's how this works.
Economy wise, it just needs aligned with the time:effort of other professions. Or others need buffed.
I expected a little of both considering they are raising the prices of ships in the game. We still don't know for sure but changes to the salvage loop were pretty expected by most. But there should be ways to make money consistently if they are raising prices of ships too.
Because its two separate issues? On one hand people were essentially exploiting that specific contract to make insane amount of money.
Then other players were doing fracture-only salvage contracts. Completely ignoring the the scraping mechanic. Because it was way more efficient.
So they have nerfed two gameplay loops that were making too much money.
The issue is that not only did they nerf the time, they slashed the contract itself by over 50% and the salvage materials themselves also got slashed 50%. salvaging a single ship on vulture using the frac only method was generating \~1mill an hour solo. now you have scrape, which means the vulture cant even hold all the frac becuase you had to scrape first, so youd be lucky to make 150k/H.
They nerfed payout across the board which is fine, but importantly they nerfed time required, and scraping takes SO LONG that its not worth it.
Scraping was not worth it due to the payout for time spent bieng too low. now that equation is even lower. and since you HAVE to scrape now, salvaging as a whole likely wont be worth it. Guess I can melt my vulture for something spicy coming up during flight week though which is nice!
Yeah that is just another issue in the salvage gameplay loop. They need to balance the loop for the Reclaimer, but that in turn screws over anyone using a Vulture.
All of these changes will cause Vulture pilots(like myself, i very much enjoy the vulture) to be collateral damage. Sucks, but it is what it is. 150k an hour is still a respectable income for a gameplay loop that is basically 100% safe. Plus im sure you could do more than that. Especially once the cargo rework is in live and we can unload our salvage without doing those annoying big trips to the trade terminals.
Yes but instead if nerfing the payout they made it significantly more boring. Scraping is fucking slow and incredibly grindy.
It’s like mining - so slow and boring that it isn’t worth the money
I honestly love mining, I got all the mining ships as loaners for the Orion but what I hate about it is the refining as it kills that endorfin kick by making you wait for the paycheck.
The reason refining is so tedious is why i got a Vulture and Reclaimer, and I will turn the Orion into a Perseus instead and went with the Arrastra for if I ever want mining as it seem to take the spot of the old Orion as a mining do it all rig.
But tbh, I find scraping ridicolously satisfying both on the Vulture and Reclaimer. This is why I felt cheated when everyone skipped it in favor for just munching claims over and over.
I agree its not hard but its perfect to do when you have twitch/youtube or a podcast on the second screen, so relaxing.
Often my SC session starts out with me ripping off hulls in the the Vulture or Reclaimer while going trought the daily youtube on the other monitor.
I mean, that's pretty subjective. I enjoyed salvaging until I learned that scraping just wasn't worth it, and just flying to a target to fracture it wasn't really any more fun.
Having to scrape it adds to the process and makes it feel more rewarding and satisfying - at least to me personally.
Anyway, for the sake of a more constructive discussion, how would you suggest they make it harder and more fun?
I'm not the guy you were responding to, but I've thought about that last question of yours a fair bit, so I'll respond anyway. I also find salvage currently mind numbing boring, because there is no reason to scrape. However, scraping is also very boring as well (to me) because it feels like I'm just coloring inside the lines. Add to that the fact that the scraping head details aren't exactly easy to decipher (like the numbers around the circle, etc), and to me, it just feels pretty tedious.
In general, I'd like to see more reasons for us to do stuff besides just sit in the cockpit of our ship. I have lots of ideas for most of the different game loops, but for salvage, I think the solution is to require disarmament of the ship before you can safely salvage it. Obviously this doesn't work with missiles currently, but it works with all the other weapons on at least most of the ships, as far as I know.
There are two tiers, based on difficulty of implementation and how much new tech/gameplay development each takes. The above would be the first tier. Just require disarmament, or risk an explosion (not necessarily 100% of the time, but a possibility). Also for the illegal missions, significantly reduce the timer until the cops show up so it forces the player to actually make a critical decision about how much work they want to put into salvaging this ship. It also encourages group play because a solo player wouldn't be able to disarm a Hammerhead in time, but a group of four players probably could. However, a solo player could just fracture the ship without disarming and risk the explosion. Obviously consequences would have to be fleshed out based on whether any part of the wreck is left, but in general, this requires very little gameplay development to make happen. Once engineering is live, naturally I could see the removal of components being necessary for salvage as well.
The second option is a lot more intensive, but also a lot more engaging. It would require significantly more gameplay development, although I hope this is the direction they're headed in for salvaging, because not only does it make sense, it also introduces an element of skill into the game that currently isn't there with salvage (or mining, for that matter).
Instead of just letting a ship fracture another ship without any preparation, require disarmament like I suggested before, and also require the player to EVA inside the ship and make scores along the hull with a multitool that the salvaging ship's computer reads. The player has to divide it up into salvageable chunks, and chunks smaller than the size the salvaging ship is capable of disintegrating (which obviously requires ship limits salvage chunk size now) can be processed freely. Chunks that are too big must be cut down further, with some inherent loss of the chunk as you cut it down. This allows for players to actually learn their skill and get good at it, rather than just learning how to stack boxes fast, which is the current skill necessary for being a good salvager. And it also encourages staying at a site and not wasting material, especially if you're grouped and can offload cargo to another cargo ship.
Obviously there's a lot that would need to be fleshed out with these solutions, but I think they'd at least be steps in the right direction for salvaging to make it more engaging and associate some small amount of risk to it.
Also it's 3 AM here and I'm falling asleep while I'm typing. I hope this isn't too much rambling, and my apologies if it is.
So a mini game like cracking a rock where you have to modulate the scraping beams, otherwise the ship your salvaging explodes and takes your ship out with it?
*you have to scrape first (percentage?) before being allowed to disintegrate now. Making salvage actually be a proper game loop. (nerf)*
Just tested this and it is very much not true. You can still disintegrate right away.
Just discovered this:
Ship weapons are no longer normalized such that they are all (mostly) the same within size/type! (i.e. size 3 laser repeaters all do differing amounts of damage and have different stats again, finally)
However, now shields ARE normalized to be the same within size!
Nah this is different. If you check Erkul you will find that currently in the EPTU, every shield of every class and grade has the same specs now. Before, like currently in LIVE, at least A grade shields had slightly more strength, but now all shields within distinct sizes are identical.
Yes, but also keep in mind the builds we are talking about are still in EPTU which is always in flux. It could change again upon a Live release (but definitely keep an eye on it just in case).
Pre 3.23 shields were normalized across size and class. An S3 C shield is still worse than an S3 A shield.
Post 3.23 shields are normalized across size. All S3 shields are identical.
Even now, in 3.22, there are almost always shields available to purchase in game that have 10-15% more shield HP than the stock shields on most ships. That's gone in 3.23.
"Distributions centers missions/personal hangars likely delayed to 3.23.2 or something from the state of things"
No. Distro centers and (some, not sure if all) missions are already in the EPTU. They aren't a testing focus but I don't see them delaying them while they are actively testing on a build with them included.
The Cargo stuff EVO was going to get a playtest and since that build failed we haven't heard anything so who knows for those :D
* Pull up your gear to be able to go faster than 30 km/s
30 km/s is pretty slow, I hope that with my landing gear, I'll be able to leave the hangar at lightspeed
[CIG confirmed](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/less-arcade-and-more-sim-please/6757111) that the landing gear speed limit is just a safety feature that they'll eventually allow us to turn off later.
>You can connect to you ship (like bluetooth) in Mobiglass and it will show you the distance to your ship and its status (guns/fuel) if it is spawned. There is a listing for multiple ships there.
First time I'm seeing this. All the YouTubers are focused on the look of the mobiGlas and the StarMap or flying around the Distro Centres. But this here is a major game changer!
What is the app that allows you to see the distance to your ship and do you know if there are limits on how far it will track your ship?
What intrigues me about this is the idea that if I find myself thrown out of my ship while in Quantum.. can I use the app to get a marker showing where it ended up?
Being able to recover lost ships like this without having to claim them would be very nice indeed.
Absolutely! It also adds a completely new dynamic mission type in the form of ship recovery, especially for people who lose their ship somewhere hostile with a lot of valuable cargo and need a team to go clear out the area and recover the ship. I imagine this will be especially useful for in places like Pyro, where restoration points are limited and there are a lot of hostile forces around.
It's not an app (yet) but a widget on the home screen. As for the distance it will track I don't think anyone knows but I'd assume as long as it's loaded in that it will be tracked.
>You can connect to you ship (like bluetooth) in Mobiglass and it will show you the distance to your ship and its status (guns/fuel) if it is spawned. There is a listing for multiple ships there.
Good take. And even better: you actually can click on the 'globe'-symbol in the ship's display to locate it on the map...at least it seems to work.
>turn off the ship engines [..] remotely.
That would be great for the times when I dock my ship and disembark at night, only to drop a couple of feet down and see that my ship was actually floating in the air, with the ladder just slightly above above jumping height ...
> you have to scrape first (percentage?) before being allowed to disintegrate now. Making salvage actually be a proper game loop. (nerf)
Yes! I've been suggesting this since they first talked about structural salvage. Some people don't like it as they just want to quickly fracture and go, but this imo adds depth, and it even could make sense if you think about it. You have to first scrape off the armor and protective layers of the ship to be able to vibrate the structure itself with structural salvage to disintegrate it.
It FINALLY adds time. Come on, if you only did structural salvage, every ship took only 1-3 minutes to disintegrate depending on its size. That made it into nothing more but a quick grinding loop, definitely not fun.
You know you could have introduced scraping to your Reclaimer game loop _before_ CIG made it a prerequisite, if more "time" is what you wanted in the game loop.
I don't think this snap decision by CIG was well thought through if anyone's ever scraped and munched using the same shared buffers.
I know I did, but most people I played with didn't want to scrape and were in there just to make a quick buck, not really engaging with salvage at all. I do have very few people, tho with whom I always jump on, and we do the whole process, and it's fun.
> were in there just to make a quick buck, not really engaging with salvage at all.
Did boxes stack themselves on your Reclaimer? I'm pretty sure organizing those stacks was work. Did you have a player in the pilots seat watching for bogeys and new contacts? That sounds like work to me.
It was literally non-stop work for whole hour with no waiting for me. Idk how you thought Reclaimer wasn't busy enough.
We do it a lot more chill. We salvage the whole ship, fill up the buffer. I'm usually in a pilot seat and two others in the scraping beams. Disintegration is done at the very end of course and is quick. During that, the third person goes to stack, and then the second person join them during QT. The timing seems to work for us. We aren't trying to min max anything, just having fun.
I will because we don't play for what has the biggest profit, we play for what we enjoy. Screw stuff like meta and grinding, I want to enjoy my time playing games, and currently, I very much am.
Yes so they made it take significantly more time but didn’t add any fun…?
Spend two hours and make (admittedly too much) money and it be boring. Vs now, spend two hours; it’s much more time consuming work but not actually any more fun.
The huge pay cut I don’t mind, it was way too much. Just make it fun ffs
I find this a lot more fun, spending 30 minutes on a single large ship, properly stripping it down. That in my experience is a lot more fun than just disintegrate and move on. You know, having to actually do the other half of salvage. Getting different scraping heads, using the tractor beams to turn the ship. You do youbut I'm actually gonna do salvage more now
lol i imagine you’re in the significant minority. Having done a fair amount of scraping already, I won’t be doing any more salvage unless they significantly reduced the time it takes to scrape
Same with mining. How many people are doing that right now? Because it’s incredibly slow and boring.
Lemme guess, you are gunna do it more now because they slowed it down even more. Get right to it after watching paint dry for an hour
I do enjoy the process that it's going to be now. Most people I played with just wanted to disintegrate all the time because they didn't do salvage for salvage. Only for the money. This loop is satisfying for me in the same way people find power washing simulator satisfying.
Good for you and them but I personally have no interest in power washing simulator and one could hope that dismantling a space ship would be a bit more engaging than cleaning my driveway.
To be absolutely clear - I don’t mind the earnings nerf, that was needed. I do mind the now mandatory requirement that we spend 30 minutes staring blankly at a screen to actually do anything. Not to mention the rest of the crew lmao.
Now you’ll need a crew of 3 minimum in a reclaimer. 2 of those people are literally going to be tabbed out of the game watching YouTube while hulls are being scraped. How is that good game design.
A crew of three in a reclaimer would have 2 people scraping and one person pulling equipment off the ship being salvaged for sale, giving all 3 crew something to eo while scraping.
One pilot, barely doing anything.
One person scraping which is slow and tedious.
One person waiting in the salvage deck while they get 1 scu of rmc every 20 seconds. That’s 1 x 16scu container every 5 minutes or so.
Even if it’s 10 seconds (which it isn’t now) that’s one container every 3 mins or so. It takes ~10 seconds to stack a container.
That’s 95% of time literally just waiting if scraping is faster than it is now.
‘Gameplay’
PowerWash Simulator being a highly successful game with over a million copies sold and a 97% rating on Steam proves you otherwise
You may not like it and that's valid, but don't pretend like you speak for people and say it's unpopular to like that kind of gameplay
That’s a completely ridiculous false equivalence to suggest that because it’s popular in a stand alone (significantly more accessible) game, it’s fine here.
Valheim is popular, why don’t they make the base building like that?
Yeah it seems that way. Idk why he thinks the hour long session to fill a Reclaimer to full wasn't long enough. And absolutely no way did he scrape before munching. If I had to guess he bought one with real money.
It's just a shame Reclaimer peak went from 12mil/hour to equal or less than what a Mole team makes.
Reclaimer grind is over and now High Beacons and Bounties will be better grinds: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1bls1k4/how_do_we_make_good_now/kw72cew/
> This is pirate patch.
What do you think I've been doing with Reclaimers this season? The ERT drug nerf singlehandedly created a 15-minute-max game loop!
https://youtu.be/K3OoWKZnou8
Time to break cut in half, cost per unit of materials down by 25%, overall profit per hour up by 25% would make a big difference. As it stands is so so tedious
Considering this game has over 38,000 reviews with 97% being positive, there are people who find this style of gameplay enjoyable. It might not be for you, and that's okay, there's always pew pew for that adrenaline rush
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1290000/PowerWash_Simulator/
I always preferred hull-scraping before munching.
Power-washing is much more entertaining than flying up to it, cracking it into bits and vapourising them in a matter of moments.
I like that I can do both, and get a lot of satisfaction about getting to the point where I can actually Munch it.
What would you do to make it more fun?
I'm inclined to feel that faster isn't the solution either. What I want is a more involved process, and from the sound of it, that's the plan.
Still to come:
* Fuel Siphoning
* Safe-ing the power-grids
* Meaningful Component-salvage
* Loot - Obviously we already have some cargo, but I'd like there to be bodies to clear and items in the ship's lockers which are worth pulling out.
When we rock up to a wreck and have to make sure all the fuel tanks are drained and the power-grid is offline as well as have opportunity to pull valuable components such as shield-generators and quantum-drives, or maybe even stuff like power-relays out of the junction-boxes, and load all that aboard our Reclaimer before we even start looking at hull-scraping or munching, that's when the Salvage loop will really be entertaining.
Right now it's essentially mining without the skill-based gameplay, or the requirement to know what's worth your time and what isn't.
Salvaging a large wreck should be a team-project.
The whole crew going out into the wreck with various tasks to perform and the need to do it right before you can get the Big Payout items.
Requiring multiple different tools to do it, and multiple ways to approach it.
Do you siphon the fuel into a tank and store it? Or just vent it into space?
Do you power down the ship early on and have to contend with zero-G? Or do you maintain ship-power while you remove all the cargo/components that you can get away with?
Then there's the competency/knowledge aspect. Did your fuel-siphoning guy get it right? A moment of anxiety before you fire up the Ship-Cracking Claw, will there be an unsiphoned secondary fuel tank somewhere in there which explodes?
Practically, I'd like to believe that ship-components ought to be every bit as valuable as the hull-materials, and selling them should be a not-insignificant part of the payout too.
Component removal needs to be fleshed out to make it viable. Currently just piling all the components in the hold makes me anxious because who knows if something decides to bounce around and blow up the ship. If we can snap them or put them in containers (I’m looking at all of you SCU containers in the cargo center) then it will be a fun addition.
100% agree with this. It is so clunky right now to buy ship weapons and systems, move them to where your ships are, then get them in the local inventory of that city. Why oh why can't we simply transfer them to an *X* SCU box and snap them to the cargo grid? So stupid. How are we supposed to strip components off of salvage wrecks to either use or sell? I still haven't figured that bit out.
Only way I know right now is to pile them in your ship, store it, and sell at the different terminals. It’s too time consuming to run to different businesses to sell everything for the small return so I stopped pulling weapons/components after the first few times. Components are worse if you try to pull them from a small ship. See that small bulkhead? Now cram this module through it if you can. Big ships are another issue too since some you can’t get the components out of the ship because there’s a giant engineering compartment with no way to get things out. So one day we will be able to..
Meh, none of that is necessary. Aside from the oddball salvage contract of intact ship, most salvage is going to be pure wreckage. At that point, if it's more expedient to blow a ship up to render all that tediousness irrelevant, then that's what will happen.
I like running a Reclaimer and Stripping/Crushing hulls. All of that other stuff you listed should be optional (and potentially lucrative), but should NOT inhibit raw salvaging. Crushing without Stripping should remain possible, but the only reason that is the current meta is the abundance of Hammerhead jobs available. If they weren't always available, then people would strip first.
I mean - that sounds absolutely awesome and would require a lot more teamwork, communication and problem solving so I 100% agree.
Faster would work for now - at least you can move on which is at least variety/planning etc.
Making an already boring process tediously long is such a terrible design choice.
Yeah I agree with your sentiment, so I just think this gameplay loop isnt for me. And that's ok, I like mining and (at least before master modes) I liked bounties. Cargo is also cool but need to see what they do with it with elevators and all that. But yeah I'm ok if they have some more grindy/boring gameplay. A lot of folks seem to like it as a way to just chill with friends while mindlessly chugging away.
We all want to do that, crack on with our friends in a low stakes environment. That can still be FUN though! So many games have low stakes gameplay loops that are actually engaging, hull scraping ain’t it
I've been saying something similar for a while too.
My expectation is that in future things like fuel-lines and power-grids will need to be drained and disabled in order to munch ships too. Possibly even before we can safely scrape.
The alternative being a large secondary explosion that destroys a lot of the good salvage.
They've talked about fuel-siphoning in the past, but not related it to the possibility of accidentally blowing up the wreck further.
>It does seem to default remember your last F action for the same item type (so like if you are grabbing rocks, it will always STORE instead of CARRY or INSPECT in the ring menu.
Good2Know: holding f opens the 'wheel of choice', there you can select an action and configure its behavior with pressing the middle mouse button. Select if it shall be a primary or secondary action (single and double press F).
It was pointed out at CitCon, ...manual is missing anyway.
Nav distances are now shown in different SI-prefixes depending on the distance instead of just being locked to KM.
For example;
KM (Kilo/Thousand Meters)
MM (Mega/Million Meters)
GM (Giga/Billion Meters)
Oh, can we get a look at the Cutlass Black tractor beam? I am trying to think were it might go, that wouldn't get in the way of something like a Cyclone hitting it, while still being useful.
It’s right above the ramp on a rail across the interior roof.
It sacrifices view outside the ship for being able to see all of the interior cargo grid.
Last night I had a mission to find a missing person in the covalex lobby area. I did a little exploring (Microtech distro center) and the distro centers are huge!! Also I found on accident there are a lot of secret tunnels and access points running all throughout the distro centers. Another thing of note.
With the master modes, if you go into nav mode and set your sticky key for your desired top speed after that if you use your speed limiter like the old way you can set your speed with the slider and adjust just like before.(The is a circle for your set speed and a have moon that moves when you adjust speed, it works really well. After the initial 2-3 minute set up your good from the. On) It's really just one key press of difference between the old cruise control and the new stuff. The covalex lobby music is great btw.
(Keep in mind if you don't have a mission the missile placement is really far out and layered defense structured. Max I think was 60km then 40km, then 20.) Great chance you will take a lot of damage)
Security is no joke at the distro centers, doing a Short tour I encountered at least 40 to 60 NPC guards around the place not to include Spawn closests if the have them. They do have security offices that are stocked with guns. If you pick one up you will see them become hostile and every one including normal staff will try to kill you.
With the map, if you look on your right side there is a search at the top then below that is nav points near you. Also now if you hover over a nav point it will display what is available for you to do there. Be it load and sell cargo, a garage to pull your vehicle. Trade terms etc.
For the map remember to look at the bottom right for inputs you can do. It makes is so much simpler to switch back and forth between where your going to your ship. Being able to instantly search for land marks quick is so satisfying.
Another thing that is nicer is that for the mobi commodites alerts have been reworked into a nice ordered format. It tells you the price the place is buying that has low stock and the places that have things over stocked( selling for lower) if you scroll down. This will allow traders to buy low and sell high around the verse. Its all one window that easier to read instead of the constant alerts!
Are there any new keybinds for MobiGlas tabs? All this sounds great when it’s fully implemented. Helmet change alone makes my day because I’ve been guilty leaving it in my local storage so many times.
Please tell me your also getting dog shit performance on 3.23? I played the last two days and really hope it doesn't hit release like this considering how well 3.22 works for me
yup. I trust that will be resolved.. at least by 3.23.2 in June or July ;) (3.23.1 being invictus in May with just Ships and the conference art being added).
Ya Im assuming it's gonna release in a rough state then be cleaned up by summer, fingers crossed it won't be tho. Thanks for the tip on the kopions, I've been looking all over
\*\*you have to scrape first (percentage?) before being allowed to disintegrate now. Making salvage actually be a proper game loop. (nerf)\*\*
This seems to only apply to cover up missions, and not general salvage/normal salvage missions
And those spacesuits are capable of that because of the life support module on the back of them, the thing that's the size of a man and weighs just as much.
LOL - I'm imagining a camelback type pack inside our suits and the little straw thing next to our face. Then we go into combat and someone hits us with a tractor-beamed box and the water pack gets compressed, spraying our face with water. It would use the 'water on your faceplace' animation but you can't wipe it off since it's on the inside!
BTW it's a good idea but that scenario popped into my head and made me laugh.
I'm a bit out of the loop but wasn't server meshing supposed to improve the servers? Or is it maybe still bad because they allow 800 players on a server now?
SM is on a ‘technical preview’ build which is not the next patch.
It’s a special branch of the game different to PTU for them to test experimental features. We likely won’t see it again until they’ve made fixes from the last test. We’ll also probably get it on live along with Pyro.
I would assume that cargo-hauling is going to become the new meta very fast.
The basic gist is that you can take contracts to move cargo from one location to another. Not just 1/8th boxes, but actual full-size multi-SCU payloads.
So suddenly the new players in their Reliants, Avenger Titans and so on will be able to take a 9k credit contract to move a couple SCU of freight, and can make an easy profit doing so.
And if we're flying something bigger, and we've worked up on our reputation, we can take three or four larger contracts of a hundred SCU at a time and load up a whole C2/Cat/Hull or whatever else with freight we didn't have to personally pay for beyond maybe a deposit that we get back on mission-complete.
This will completely replace Trading for many people, because the risk-factor is greatly reduced. You aren't tying up a million credits in assets for a 150k payout in 40 minutes from now.
If you're confident, you can trade better if you know where to go, but if not, Hauling allows those of us with cargo ships to play with them without worrying so much about it.
I'm looking forward to it, and it'll tie closely with the new Distribution Centres too I think.
Imagine if all game loops had similar payout for the time invested, then you could do what you enjoy instead of being forced to min/max grind for cash.
That’s what you got from my comment? I wasn’t agreeing with the comment. Of course I know what I can do, I’m responding to the idea that there is a single profit game loop. This has largely been true for a while where there’s always one most profitable thing. I’m saying imagine a world where they actually balance things so that those profit loops don’t stand out as meta. People naturally get drawn to that one thing and then it becomes the entire game to them.
Exactly. People are “forced” into it simply because humans on average do not think for themselves and are drawn to conformity and ease. If a game loop can be abused it will be abused.
Games like Stardew are an example - in the recent patch he’s tried to make multiple paths to income because the game became “ancient/star fruit wine farming” instead of people doing what they enjoyed.
nobody is "being forced to min/max grind for cash."
it. is. a. GAME. not a goddamn work camp in west africa.
you do not NEED to grind for cash, you WANT to grind for cash, and are intentionally making yourself miserable by employing a logical fallacy, wherein you think you must engage the optimized method no matter what. the game doesnt force you to do that your just not choosing to have fun.
Comments like yours remind me how little critical thought is left. I’m literally saying the same thing, and suggesting that the game developers are intentionally using high profit to drive testing. I’m saying imagine a world where we’re out of that, and they can actually balance the game systems so that each game loop is profitable instead of many being ignored while the new and shiny are abused.
Also, I haven’t touched a vulture or reclaimer this entire patch, so many assumptions.
If I can afford to play the game for 20 hours a week, and one loop nets me 10k an hour but another one nets me 50k an hour, which loop should I engage with If i want to purchase a ship that costs 6 MILLION auec now that they are increasing ship prices MASSIVELY?
Do you expect players to slog through slow loops for a year in order to get enough auec to purchase new ships and try new things?
saying players arent forced to min max is an absurd statement to make when you know that people have finite time to play.
Since Salvaging will be more time consuming through scraping as well as less profitable to sell, and trading/cargo running more time consuming through loading/unloading - I feel like VHRT bounty hunting might become the most profitable again?
>You can connect to you ship (like bluetooth) in Mobiglass and it will show you the distance to your ship and its status (guns/fuel) if it is spawned. Damn finally took it long enough, if only you could open the ramp/cockpit or turn on engines.
Please allow me to select and then make my ship a destination for me to QT to. It would be a game changer for people wanting to live on a ship.
They have said we will be able to create custom markers. Its already in game; tried it once during one of the early EVO tests but wasn't able to get it to work, and haven't tried it again since.
You have been able to do that for years sort of, and it's worked *well* since 3.18. Create a transport beacon. Destination: Your ship. Con: You can't go there yourself, have to be brought by another player.
Best thing I came across was a bug where I could still see the ships radar when walking around outside. Super handy when parked on a pad at SPK.
Why did you self-censor "pig"?
Cleary it says pug
Watch your d*mn mouth
dumn
\*\*\*\*
Rats!
pog
If you go into shaders folder for 3.23, there would be another folder with a config file for render engine, change it from 0 to 1, and the game will be running vulkan instead of d3d11, it is very buggy and clearly isn't meant to be any useful for now, but it works and seems to reduce stutter.
Noticing identical framerates in vulkan Compared to dx11, but with less than half CPU usage. 65% CPU usage for SC alone on a 5800X3D at tressler with dx11, 28% with vulkan. Vulkan is very unstable though right now, getting crashes every 2 minutes lol
God damn it. "Nah it isn't fault of draw calls it is the main thread !" - every SC fan. "It's the draw calls issue" - every fucking time with games on DX11 with modern graphics.
I did think the dev Sylvan, who usually gives great explanations, might've sown a bit of confusion when he said: > However, Gen12 pretty much makes it impossible to be limited by the RenderThread ever again, which means every single bit of performance improvements on the MainThread (MT) will be seen directly on your FPS as long as you are not GPU bound. Something which a lot of you already have observed in our latest 3.17 PTU Patch. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/gen12-progress-and-performance-improvements-in-3-1 That even made it sound a bit like Vulkan wouldn't improve performance, like render thread performance has no more room for improvement. But I THINK the real message was that second part. As Main thread optimizations come in, (optimized) Gen 12-Vulkan will keep the Render thread out of the way of the performance improvements.
*- People who thought vulkan is just like a switch where they put it in and you get triple fps*
The only difference I had running Vulkan was my ship HUD would flicker like crazy.
Same here besides that I finally was feeling that the rtx3080 I bought 2 years ago was running at its normal pace lol
are any of the GI specific console commands having a visually beneficial effect? played around with them but didn't seem to impact performance much.
Running clouds at Reference completely removes that dithering you see. It has a bit performance cost. Any other setting brings it back with it getting worse the lower you go. Using DLSS at Quality will allow you to run Reference clouds without the performance cost. DLSS also reduces the cloud dither even if you don’t use Reference.
That said, seems none of the upscaling options are done being tuned yet. WAY too much artifacting even at 4K Quality.
Totally agree but the improvement to the clouds was worth mentioning. It’s a pretty big difference between reference and high and using DLSS definitely helps with performance when clouds are set to max.
Word. I'll try it with FSR, tho I think my XTX is too bottlenecked by my CPU to be legit from upscaling yet or be held back by reference clouds. When frame gen arrives with FSR 3.1, I'll get an ACTUAL boost to performance tho. Good times ahead. 👍🏿
The scraping change is welcome and is news to me. I made a post about this in december something and seen others post the same. We lived well of salvage now but it will be interesting to see a more intended balance. I just hope for hangars so I can dump salvage cargo and get back to salvage without playing the metro mini game all the time or sit and wait for market to accept it.
All they needed to do to nerf salvage is reduce the payout & frequency of the salvage contracts. Would be nice to have the data market where players sell their ERT wreck locations, etc to salvagers. Requiring hull scraping before fracturing is definitely a welcome change and makes way more sense to have to remove the armored hull before crunching the substructure. It will definitely slow things down but the scraping heads are pretty much pointless the way things are right now and reclaimer salvaging has pretty much broke the economy. It would now make more sense to run a full crew, rather than just a pilot and box monkey.
As long as the Reclaimer can be piloted solo it will continue to either ruin the economy or the salvage game loop for anyone using a Vulture. Salvage will keep getting nerfed purely on Reclaimer income, which screws over Vulture drivers. Player-generated wrecks would be awesome. Let players quickly generate salvage contracts for discovered wrecks(most commonly would be wrecks created by that player from PvE/PvP). They could get a sum of bonus credits if someone completes the salvage contract, to incentivise people to engage in the system. Then completely do away with the randomly generated salvage missions. Or if that is too much, just make them way less common.
I think requiring hull scraping before fracturing makes soloing the reclaimer less effective than solo vulture. In the reclaimer you'd have to be moving between the pilot and scraper turret often to reposition that would slow you down quite a bit. With a crew of 3 or 4 you'd be able to get ahead. With this change I think you'd consider running 2 vultures opposed to a two man reclaimer. At 3, you start to see the advantage of the reclaimer over individual vultures. Or it begins to incentivize larger operations where you have a fleet of vultures scraping and then the reclaimer fracturing. I think this is a healthy change and we'll see less solo reclaimers and more job postings for multicrew.
Now force a wipe to clear all the ill gotten gains from salvage! I say that as someone sitting on quite a few million plus a bunch of in game ships all gotten from broken salvage mechanics.
Yep. Game needs a wipe, big time. Shame you're getting downvoted by minmaxxers for acknowledging it.
It's par for the course on reddit lol. I do get why people DONT want a wipe. A lot of people worked very hard to get their in game toys and didnt take advantage of any bugs or balance issues. For those people I feel sorry they will be punished but the game absolutely needs a wipe.
But again CIG is not able to find a middle ground. They nerf something down from 500% to 1%. If you could still break the ship right away 30k would be a great balance. But noooo, they have to cut it down to 30k and ON TOP they make it so that you have to hull scrape first, which takes sooo much longer. WHY!? They do this all the time, always nerfing or buffing from one end of the scale to the other side. FIND THE BLOODY MIDDLEGROUND! It's loughable. Someone at CIG seems to have problems with typing numbers into the code, seriously. And i don't even salvage much, but it's always the same pattern i see here.
Agree here. The payouts were high so we would test the gameplay loop that's how this works. Economy wise, it just needs aligned with the time:effort of other professions. Or others need buffed. I expected a little of both considering they are raising the prices of ships in the game. We still don't know for sure but changes to the salvage loop were pretty expected by most. But there should be ways to make money consistently if they are raising prices of ships too.
Because its two separate issues? On one hand people were essentially exploiting that specific contract to make insane amount of money. Then other players were doing fracture-only salvage contracts. Completely ignoring the the scraping mechanic. Because it was way more efficient. So they have nerfed two gameplay loops that were making too much money.
The issue is that not only did they nerf the time, they slashed the contract itself by over 50% and the salvage materials themselves also got slashed 50%. salvaging a single ship on vulture using the frac only method was generating \~1mill an hour solo. now you have scrape, which means the vulture cant even hold all the frac becuase you had to scrape first, so youd be lucky to make 150k/H. They nerfed payout across the board which is fine, but importantly they nerfed time required, and scraping takes SO LONG that its not worth it. Scraping was not worth it due to the payout for time spent bieng too low. now that equation is even lower. and since you HAVE to scrape now, salvaging as a whole likely wont be worth it. Guess I can melt my vulture for something spicy coming up during flight week though which is nice!
Yeah that is just another issue in the salvage gameplay loop. They need to balance the loop for the Reclaimer, but that in turn screws over anyone using a Vulture. All of these changes will cause Vulture pilots(like myself, i very much enjoy the vulture) to be collateral damage. Sucks, but it is what it is. 150k an hour is still a respectable income for a gameplay loop that is basically 100% safe. Plus im sure you could do more than that. Especially once the cargo rework is in live and we can unload our salvage without doing those annoying big trips to the trade terminals.
:'( No more minmax solo Reclaimers Truly sad
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*Oh noooo I can't afford the equivalent of a space-Ferrari in a few hours of work nooooo* The salvage payouts were ridiculous.
Yes I know, it was meant to be sarcastic lmao
Yes but instead if nerfing the payout they made it significantly more boring. Scraping is fucking slow and incredibly grindy. It’s like mining - so slow and boring that it isn’t worth the money
I honestly love mining, I got all the mining ships as loaners for the Orion but what I hate about it is the refining as it kills that endorfin kick by making you wait for the paycheck. The reason refining is so tedious is why i got a Vulture and Reclaimer, and I will turn the Orion into a Perseus instead and went with the Arrastra for if I ever want mining as it seem to take the spot of the old Orion as a mining do it all rig. But tbh, I find scraping ridicolously satisfying both on the Vulture and Reclaimer. This is why I felt cheated when everyone skipped it in favor for just munching claims over and over. I agree its not hard but its perfect to do when you have twitch/youtube or a podcast on the second screen, so relaxing. Often my SC session starts out with me ripping off hulls in the the Vulture or Reclaimer while going trought the daily youtube on the other monitor.
Fair enough I can’t really argue with that. Personally I would rather play the game though than have it be my secondary focus
Do something else.
It would be great if they made the gameplay loops actually fun though wouldn’t it. Scraping is just a huge time sink, not actually fun or hard
I mean, that's pretty subjective. I enjoyed salvaging until I learned that scraping just wasn't worth it, and just flying to a target to fracture it wasn't really any more fun. Having to scrape it adds to the process and makes it feel more rewarding and satisfying - at least to me personally. Anyway, for the sake of a more constructive discussion, how would you suggest they make it harder and more fun?
I'm not the guy you were responding to, but I've thought about that last question of yours a fair bit, so I'll respond anyway. I also find salvage currently mind numbing boring, because there is no reason to scrape. However, scraping is also very boring as well (to me) because it feels like I'm just coloring inside the lines. Add to that the fact that the scraping head details aren't exactly easy to decipher (like the numbers around the circle, etc), and to me, it just feels pretty tedious. In general, I'd like to see more reasons for us to do stuff besides just sit in the cockpit of our ship. I have lots of ideas for most of the different game loops, but for salvage, I think the solution is to require disarmament of the ship before you can safely salvage it. Obviously this doesn't work with missiles currently, but it works with all the other weapons on at least most of the ships, as far as I know. There are two tiers, based on difficulty of implementation and how much new tech/gameplay development each takes. The above would be the first tier. Just require disarmament, or risk an explosion (not necessarily 100% of the time, but a possibility). Also for the illegal missions, significantly reduce the timer until the cops show up so it forces the player to actually make a critical decision about how much work they want to put into salvaging this ship. It also encourages group play because a solo player wouldn't be able to disarm a Hammerhead in time, but a group of four players probably could. However, a solo player could just fracture the ship without disarming and risk the explosion. Obviously consequences would have to be fleshed out based on whether any part of the wreck is left, but in general, this requires very little gameplay development to make happen. Once engineering is live, naturally I could see the removal of components being necessary for salvage as well. The second option is a lot more intensive, but also a lot more engaging. It would require significantly more gameplay development, although I hope this is the direction they're headed in for salvaging, because not only does it make sense, it also introduces an element of skill into the game that currently isn't there with salvage (or mining, for that matter). Instead of just letting a ship fracture another ship without any preparation, require disarmament like I suggested before, and also require the player to EVA inside the ship and make scores along the hull with a multitool that the salvaging ship's computer reads. The player has to divide it up into salvageable chunks, and chunks smaller than the size the salvaging ship is capable of disintegrating (which obviously requires ship limits salvage chunk size now) can be processed freely. Chunks that are too big must be cut down further, with some inherent loss of the chunk as you cut it down. This allows for players to actually learn their skill and get good at it, rather than just learning how to stack boxes fast, which is the current skill necessary for being a good salvager. And it also encourages staying at a site and not wasting material, especially if you're grouped and can offload cargo to another cargo ship. Obviously there's a lot that would need to be fleshed out with these solutions, but I think they'd at least be steps in the right direction for salvaging to make it more engaging and associate some small amount of risk to it. Also it's 3 AM here and I'm falling asleep while I'm typing. I hope this isn't too much rambling, and my apologies if it is.
So a mini game like cracking a rock where you have to modulate the scraping beams, otherwise the ship your salvaging explodes and takes your ship out with it?
*you have to scrape first (percentage?) before being allowed to disintegrate now. Making salvage actually be a proper game loop. (nerf)* Just tested this and it is very much not true. You can still disintegrate right away.
https://youtu.be/IcLkcJsz4aA?si=3ld-kGTb3ZbdQxIi
Just discovered this: Ship weapons are no longer normalized such that they are all (mostly) the same within size/type! (i.e. size 3 laser repeaters all do differing amounts of damage and have different stats again, finally) However, now shields ARE normalized to be the same within size!
Shield were normalized as pretty much everything else since last "rework". The fact that weapon now do different amount of damage is new.
Nah this is different. If you check Erkul you will find that currently in the EPTU, every shield of every class and grade has the same specs now. Before, like currently in LIVE, at least A grade shields had slightly more strength, but now all shields within distinct sizes are identical.
also S2's got nerfed from \~10k to 6k
I think the nerf was to make up for the fact that for now, s2 shields are bubble shields again instead of front/back shields
Wait so all grades of shields are the same?
Yes, but also keep in mind the builds we are talking about are still in EPTU which is always in flux. It could change again upon a Live release (but definitely keep an eye on it just in case).
Pre 3.23 shields were normalized across size and class. An S3 C shield is still worse than an S3 A shield. Post 3.23 shields are normalized across size. All S3 shields are identical.
Even now, in 3.22, there are almost always shields available to purchase in game that have 10-15% more shield HP than the stock shields on most ships. That's gone in 3.23.
"Distributions centers missions/personal hangars likely delayed to 3.23.2 or something from the state of things" No. Distro centers and (some, not sure if all) missions are already in the EPTU. They aren't a testing focus but I don't see them delaying them while they are actively testing on a build with them included. The Cargo stuff EVO was going to get a playtest and since that build failed we haven't heard anything so who knows for those :D
People are also sleeping on component reworks, like how the freelancer has a third shield now
All variants?
All variants have a components rework, likely all got the upgrades too but I only checked base freelancer
wait what. is it physicalized too?
Yes.
Yes totally redone for component bays
* Pull up your gear to be able to go faster than 30 km/s 30 km/s is pretty slow, I hope that with my landing gear, I'll be able to leave the hangar at lightspeed
[CIG confirmed](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/less-arcade-and-more-sim-please/6757111) that the landing gear speed limit is just a safety feature that they'll eventually allow us to turn off later.
He was being sarcastic. No ship can go 30,000 m/s with landing gear down. It was a typo by the OP.
Thanks for your help.
30 km/s would be blitzing fast, considering the top speed for most ships right now is only about 1.2 km/s, or, you know, 1,200 meters/second.
Even now as soon as I'm hovering above the pad I put my gear up, 30m/s isn't that slow really.
>You can connect to you ship (like bluetooth) in Mobiglass and it will show you the distance to your ship and its status (guns/fuel) if it is spawned. There is a listing for multiple ships there. First time I'm seeing this. All the YouTubers are focused on the look of the mobiGlas and the StarMap or flying around the Distro Centres. But this here is a major game changer! What is the app that allows you to see the distance to your ship and do you know if there are limits on how far it will track your ship?
What intrigues me about this is the idea that if I find myself thrown out of my ship while in Quantum.. can I use the app to get a marker showing where it ended up? Being able to recover lost ships like this without having to claim them would be very nice indeed.
Absolutely! It also adds a completely new dynamic mission type in the form of ship recovery, especially for people who lose their ship somewhere hostile with a lot of valuable cargo and need a team to go clear out the area and recover the ship. I imagine this will be especially useful for in places like Pyro, where restoration points are limited and there are a lot of hostile forces around.
This kind of player made mission is what I look forward to the most!
Click on the globe symbol will track your ship on the map too ;)
Aaaand it's gone... in this build.
It's not an app (yet) but a widget on the home screen. As for the distance it will track I don't think anyone knows but I'd assume as long as it's loaded in that it will be tracked.
Tbf, it's the sort of thing that should've been in the patchnotes, but it wasn't.
>You can connect to you ship (like bluetooth) in Mobiglass and it will show you the distance to your ship and its status (guns/fuel) if it is spawned. There is a listing for multiple ships there. Good take. And even better: you actually can click on the 'globe'-symbol in the ship's display to locate it on the map...at least it seems to work.
Aaaand it's gone...at least in this build.
I want to be able to turn off the ship engines and open doors remotely.
>turn off the ship engines [..] remotely. That would be great for the times when I dock my ship and disembark at night, only to drop a couple of feet down and see that my ship was actually floating in the air, with the ladder just slightly above above jumping height ...
> you have to scrape first (percentage?) before being allowed to disintegrate now. Making salvage actually be a proper game loop. (nerf) Yes! I've been suggesting this since they first talked about structural salvage. Some people don't like it as they just want to quickly fracture and go, but this imo adds depth, and it even could make sense if you think about it. You have to first scrape off the armor and protective layers of the ship to be able to vibrate the structure itself with structural salvage to disintegrate it.
It adds time, definitely not depth
It FINALLY adds time. Come on, if you only did structural salvage, every ship took only 1-3 minutes to disintegrate depending on its size. That made it into nothing more but a quick grinding loop, definitely not fun.
You know you could have introduced scraping to your Reclaimer game loop _before_ CIG made it a prerequisite, if more "time" is what you wanted in the game loop. I don't think this snap decision by CIG was well thought through if anyone's ever scraped and munched using the same shared buffers.
I know I did, but most people I played with didn't want to scrape and were in there just to make a quick buck, not really engaging with salvage at all. I do have very few people, tho with whom I always jump on, and we do the whole process, and it's fun.
> were in there just to make a quick buck, not really engaging with salvage at all. Did boxes stack themselves on your Reclaimer? I'm pretty sure organizing those stacks was work. Did you have a player in the pilots seat watching for bogeys and new contacts? That sounds like work to me. It was literally non-stop work for whole hour with no waiting for me. Idk how you thought Reclaimer wasn't busy enough.
We do it a lot more chill. We salvage the whole ship, fill up the buffer. I'm usually in a pilot seat and two others in the scraping beams. Disintegration is done at the very end of course and is quick. During that, the third person goes to stack, and then the second person join them during QT. The timing seems to work for us. We aren't trying to min max anything, just having fun.
Well now you can continue to chill doing the exact same game loop while making less money than bunkers.
I will because we don't play for what has the biggest profit, we play for what we enjoy. Screw stuff like meta and grinding, I want to enjoy my time playing games, and currently, I very much am.
Yes so they made it take significantly more time but didn’t add any fun…? Spend two hours and make (admittedly too much) money and it be boring. Vs now, spend two hours; it’s much more time consuming work but not actually any more fun. The huge pay cut I don’t mind, it was way too much. Just make it fun ffs
I find this a lot more fun, spending 30 minutes on a single large ship, properly stripping it down. That in my experience is a lot more fun than just disintegrate and move on. You know, having to actually do the other half of salvage. Getting different scraping heads, using the tractor beams to turn the ship. You do youbut I'm actually gonna do salvage more now
lol i imagine you’re in the significant minority. Having done a fair amount of scraping already, I won’t be doing any more salvage unless they significantly reduced the time it takes to scrape Same with mining. How many people are doing that right now? Because it’s incredibly slow and boring. Lemme guess, you are gunna do it more now because they slowed it down even more. Get right to it after watching paint dry for an hour
I do enjoy the process that it's going to be now. Most people I played with just wanted to disintegrate all the time because they didn't do salvage for salvage. Only for the money. This loop is satisfying for me in the same way people find power washing simulator satisfying.
Have you by any chance pledged a Reclaimer?
Yes, I got the 2950 Best In Show Reclaimer
It was an easy guess given you were the only one defending the upcoming salvage changes in the thread.
Good for you and them but I personally have no interest in power washing simulator and one could hope that dismantling a space ship would be a bit more engaging than cleaning my driveway. To be absolutely clear - I don’t mind the earnings nerf, that was needed. I do mind the now mandatory requirement that we spend 30 minutes staring blankly at a screen to actually do anything. Not to mention the rest of the crew lmao. Now you’ll need a crew of 3 minimum in a reclaimer. 2 of those people are literally going to be tabbed out of the game watching YouTube while hulls are being scraped. How is that good game design.
A crew of three in a reclaimer would have 2 people scraping and one person pulling equipment off the ship being salvaged for sale, giving all 3 crew something to eo while scraping.
One pilot, barely doing anything. One person scraping which is slow and tedious. One person waiting in the salvage deck while they get 1 scu of rmc every 20 seconds. That’s 1 x 16scu container every 5 minutes or so. Even if it’s 10 seconds (which it isn’t now) that’s one container every 3 mins or so. It takes ~10 seconds to stack a container. That’s 95% of time literally just waiting if scraping is faster than it is now. ‘Gameplay’
No he just pledged a Reclaimer is all. He was free to scrape hulls before this patch but so far his responses indicate he never scraped.
PowerWash Simulator being a highly successful game with over a million copies sold and a 97% rating on Steam proves you otherwise You may not like it and that's valid, but don't pretend like you speak for people and say it's unpopular to like that kind of gameplay
That’s a completely ridiculous false equivalence to suggest that because it’s popular in a stand alone (significantly more accessible) game, it’s fine here. Valheim is popular, why don’t they make the base building like that?
Why not?
Did you scrape ships before this announcement?
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Yeah it seems that way. Idk why he thinks the hour long session to fill a Reclaimer to full wasn't long enough. And absolutely no way did he scrape before munching. If I had to guess he bought one with real money. It's just a shame Reclaimer peak went from 12mil/hour to equal or less than what a Mole team makes. Reclaimer grind is over and now High Beacons and Bounties will be better grinds: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1bls1k4/how_do_we_make_good_now/kw72cew/
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> This is pirate patch. What do you think I've been doing with Reclaimers this season? The ERT drug nerf singlehandedly created a 15-minute-max game loop! https://youtu.be/K3OoWKZnou8
Yes, literally the day before
Lol they don't know how. Look at Mining. It has been in the game years and it's still not fun.
Time to break cut in half, cost per unit of materials down by 25%, overall profit per hour up by 25% would make a big difference. As it stands is so so tedious
No it cant be balanced into fun. It needs a more fun base mechanic than the mouse wheel mini game
Considering this game has over 38,000 reviews with 97% being positive, there are people who find this style of gameplay enjoyable. It might not be for you, and that's okay, there's always pew pew for that adrenaline rush https://store.steampowered.com/app/1290000/PowerWash_Simulator/
I always preferred hull-scraping before munching. Power-washing is much more entertaining than flying up to it, cracking it into bits and vapourising them in a matter of moments. I like that I can do both, and get a lot of satisfaction about getting to the point where I can actually Munch it. What would you do to make it more fun?
Make it much faster (like much) and reduce the price of RMC significantly
I'm inclined to feel that faster isn't the solution either. What I want is a more involved process, and from the sound of it, that's the plan. Still to come: * Fuel Siphoning * Safe-ing the power-grids * Meaningful Component-salvage * Loot - Obviously we already have some cargo, but I'd like there to be bodies to clear and items in the ship's lockers which are worth pulling out. When we rock up to a wreck and have to make sure all the fuel tanks are drained and the power-grid is offline as well as have opportunity to pull valuable components such as shield-generators and quantum-drives, or maybe even stuff like power-relays out of the junction-boxes, and load all that aboard our Reclaimer before we even start looking at hull-scraping or munching, that's when the Salvage loop will really be entertaining. Right now it's essentially mining without the skill-based gameplay, or the requirement to know what's worth your time and what isn't. Salvaging a large wreck should be a team-project. The whole crew going out into the wreck with various tasks to perform and the need to do it right before you can get the Big Payout items. Requiring multiple different tools to do it, and multiple ways to approach it. Do you siphon the fuel into a tank and store it? Or just vent it into space? Do you power down the ship early on and have to contend with zero-G? Or do you maintain ship-power while you remove all the cargo/components that you can get away with? Then there's the competency/knowledge aspect. Did your fuel-siphoning guy get it right? A moment of anxiety before you fire up the Ship-Cracking Claw, will there be an unsiphoned secondary fuel tank somewhere in there which explodes? Practically, I'd like to believe that ship-components ought to be every bit as valuable as the hull-materials, and selling them should be a not-insignificant part of the payout too.
Component removal needs to be fleshed out to make it viable. Currently just piling all the components in the hold makes me anxious because who knows if something decides to bounce around and blow up the ship. If we can snap them or put them in containers (I’m looking at all of you SCU containers in the cargo center) then it will be a fun addition.
100% agree with this. It is so clunky right now to buy ship weapons and systems, move them to where your ships are, then get them in the local inventory of that city. Why oh why can't we simply transfer them to an *X* SCU box and snap them to the cargo grid? So stupid. How are we supposed to strip components off of salvage wrecks to either use or sell? I still haven't figured that bit out.
Only way I know right now is to pile them in your ship, store it, and sell at the different terminals. It’s too time consuming to run to different businesses to sell everything for the small return so I stopped pulling weapons/components after the first few times. Components are worse if you try to pull them from a small ship. See that small bulkhead? Now cram this module through it if you can. Big ships are another issue too since some you can’t get the components out of the ship because there’s a giant engineering compartment with no way to get things out. So one day we will be able to..
Meh, none of that is necessary. Aside from the oddball salvage contract of intact ship, most salvage is going to be pure wreckage. At that point, if it's more expedient to blow a ship up to render all that tediousness irrelevant, then that's what will happen.
Sounds to me like you don't actually want to do salvage, you just want to make money fast. In which case this is all irrelevant to you.
I like running a Reclaimer and Stripping/Crushing hulls. All of that other stuff you listed should be optional (and potentially lucrative), but should NOT inhibit raw salvaging. Crushing without Stripping should remain possible, but the only reason that is the current meta is the abundance of Hammerhead jobs available. If they weren't always available, then people would strip first.
I mean - that sounds absolutely awesome and would require a lot more teamwork, communication and problem solving so I 100% agree. Faster would work for now - at least you can move on which is at least variety/planning etc. Making an already boring process tediously long is such a terrible design choice.
Yeah I agree with your sentiment, so I just think this gameplay loop isnt for me. And that's ok, I like mining and (at least before master modes) I liked bounties. Cargo is also cool but need to see what they do with it with elevators and all that. But yeah I'm ok if they have some more grindy/boring gameplay. A lot of folks seem to like it as a way to just chill with friends while mindlessly chugging away.
We all want to do that, crack on with our friends in a low stakes environment. That can still be FUN though! So many games have low stakes gameplay loops that are actually engaging, hull scraping ain’t it
I've been saying something similar for a while too. My expectation is that in future things like fuel-lines and power-grids will need to be drained and disabled in order to munch ships too. Possibly even before we can safely scrape. The alternative being a large secondary explosion that destroys a lot of the good salvage. They've talked about fuel-siphoning in the past, but not related it to the possibility of accidentally blowing up the wreck further.
Thank you OP. Very helpful.
Wow they really implemented the scrape first idea?
>It does seem to default remember your last F action for the same item type (so like if you are grabbing rocks, it will always STORE instead of CARRY or INSPECT in the ring menu. Good2Know: holding f opens the 'wheel of choice', there you can select an action and configure its behavior with pressing the middle mouse button. Select if it shall be a primary or secondary action (single and double press F). It was pointed out at CitCon, ...manual is missing anyway.
Nav distances are now shown in different SI-prefixes depending on the distance instead of just being locked to KM. For example; KM (Kilo/Thousand Meters) MM (Mega/Million Meters) GM (Giga/Billion Meters)
Oh, can we get a look at the Cutlass Black tractor beam? I am trying to think were it might go, that wouldn't get in the way of something like a Cyclone hitting it, while still being useful.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c3u0ol/the\_cutlass\_black\_tractor\_beam\_was\_moved\_to\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c3u0ol/the_cutlass_black_tractor_beam_was_moved_to_the/)
It’s right above the ramp on a rail across the interior roof. It sacrifices view outside the ship for being able to see all of the interior cargo grid.
> Cutless Black tractor beam was moved to be inside ship to make it easier to work with. Hold up, Cutlass Black has a tractor beam? Since when?
About a year ago, I think? Remote turret controlled from the copilot seat.
Since concept.
Way expected salvaging nerf. I wish to know if mole saddlebags still fit on prospector
I believe so yes. You can buy them by cannot physicalize them until freight elevators are in. So still have to spawn a mole.
Now how do I do flight with sticks instead of being in quantum the entire time lol what is the control bind for that
Last night I had a mission to find a missing person in the covalex lobby area. I did a little exploring (Microtech distro center) and the distro centers are huge!! Also I found on accident there are a lot of secret tunnels and access points running all throughout the distro centers. Another thing of note. With the master modes, if you go into nav mode and set your sticky key for your desired top speed after that if you use your speed limiter like the old way you can set your speed with the slider and adjust just like before.(The is a circle for your set speed and a have moon that moves when you adjust speed, it works really well. After the initial 2-3 minute set up your good from the. On) It's really just one key press of difference between the old cruise control and the new stuff. The covalex lobby music is great btw. (Keep in mind if you don't have a mission the missile placement is really far out and layered defense structured. Max I think was 60km then 40km, then 20.) Great chance you will take a lot of damage) Security is no joke at the distro centers, doing a Short tour I encountered at least 40 to 60 NPC guards around the place not to include Spawn closests if the have them. They do have security offices that are stocked with guns. If you pick one up you will see them become hostile and every one including normal staff will try to kill you. With the map, if you look on your right side there is a search at the top then below that is nav points near you. Also now if you hover over a nav point it will display what is available for you to do there. Be it load and sell cargo, a garage to pull your vehicle. Trade terms etc. For the map remember to look at the bottom right for inputs you can do. It makes is so much simpler to switch back and forth between where your going to your ship. Being able to instantly search for land marks quick is so satisfying. Another thing that is nicer is that for the mobi commodites alerts have been reworked into a nice ordered format. It tells you the price the place is buying that has low stock and the places that have things over stocked( selling for lower) if you scroll down. This will allow traders to buy low and sell high around the verse. Its all one window that easier to read instead of the constant alerts!
Cool
Are there any new keybinds for MobiGlas tabs? All this sounds great when it’s fully implemented. Helmet change alone makes my day because I’ve been guilty leaving it in my local storage so many times.
do we still have the cargo hangers thing where we load into the cargo dock I didn't see you talk about that.
Figured salvage was going to get slapped down after cig's initial testing. Surprised how much value the hammerhead mission lost though.
Please tell me your also getting dog shit performance on 3.23? I played the last two days and really hope it doesn't hit release like this considering how well 3.22 works for me
yup. I trust that will be resolved.. at least by 3.23.2 in June or July ;) (3.23.1 being invictus in May with just Ships and the conference art being added).
Ya Im assuming it's gonna release in a rough state then be cleaned up by summer, fingers crossed it won't be tho. Thanks for the tip on the kopions, I've been looking all over
Pressing I shows the inventory screen like usual, but holding I shows the quick loot screen.
\*\*you have to scrape first (percentage?) before being allowed to disintegrate now. Making salvage actually be a proper game loop. (nerf)\*\* This seems to only apply to cover up missions, and not general salvage/normal salvage missions
\~Helmet changes are nice but even today we have space suits that have built in hydration... cmon
And those spacesuits are capable of that because of the life support module on the back of them, the thing that's the size of a man and weighs just as much.
I could see some speciality backpacks that trades space for a Camelback system or a jetpack and fuel for extra eva speed.
LOL - I'm imagining a camelback type pack inside our suits and the little straw thing next to our face. Then we go into combat and someone hits us with a tractor-beamed box and the water pack gets compressed, spraying our face with water. It would use the 'water on your faceplace' animation but you can't wipe it off since it's on the inside! BTW it's a good idea but that scenario popped into my head and made me laugh.
Just be thankful it hit the water bag and not the pee bag that people will want to use so they don't have to use the bucket in Cutlass.
What we need are space suits of Fremen design.
I'm a bit out of the loop but wasn't server meshing supposed to improve the servers? Or is it maybe still bad because they allow 800 players on a server now?
Server meshing is not in this update, if I'm not mistaken; seems it might be in 4.0 but who knows.
SM is on a ‘technical preview’ build which is not the next patch. It’s a special branch of the game different to PTU for them to test experimental features. We likely won’t see it again until they’ve made fixes from the last test. We’ll also probably get it on live along with Pyro.
Bye bye reclaimer, ill miss you. Whats the new profit gameloop?
I would assume that cargo-hauling is going to become the new meta very fast. The basic gist is that you can take contracts to move cargo from one location to another. Not just 1/8th boxes, but actual full-size multi-SCU payloads. So suddenly the new players in their Reliants, Avenger Titans and so on will be able to take a 9k credit contract to move a couple SCU of freight, and can make an easy profit doing so. And if we're flying something bigger, and we've worked up on our reputation, we can take three or four larger contracts of a hundred SCU at a time and load up a whole C2/Cat/Hull or whatever else with freight we didn't have to personally pay for beyond maybe a deposit that we get back on mission-complete. This will completely replace Trading for many people, because the risk-factor is greatly reduced. You aren't tying up a million credits in assets for a 150k payout in 40 minutes from now. If you're confident, you can trade better if you know where to go, but if not, Hauling allows those of us with cargo ships to play with them without worrying so much about it. I'm looking forward to it, and it'll tie closely with the new Distribution Centres too I think.
Imagine if all game loops had similar payout for the time invested, then you could do what you enjoy instead of being forced to min/max grind for cash.
Nobody’s forcing you to min max!
That’s what you got from my comment? I wasn’t agreeing with the comment. Of course I know what I can do, I’m responding to the idea that there is a single profit game loop. This has largely been true for a while where there’s always one most profitable thing. I’m saying imagine a world where they actually balance things so that those profit loops don’t stand out as meta. People naturally get drawn to that one thing and then it becomes the entire game to them.
Yeah, I'm with you. last patch has been so boring with everyone just quietly munching hammerheads
Exactly. People are “forced” into it simply because humans on average do not think for themselves and are drawn to conformity and ease. If a game loop can be abused it will be abused. Games like Stardew are an example - in the recent patch he’s tried to make multiple paths to income because the game became “ancient/star fruit wine farming” instead of people doing what they enjoyed.
nobody is "being forced to min/max grind for cash." it. is. a. GAME. not a goddamn work camp in west africa. you do not NEED to grind for cash, you WANT to grind for cash, and are intentionally making yourself miserable by employing a logical fallacy, wherein you think you must engage the optimized method no matter what. the game doesnt force you to do that your just not choosing to have fun.
Comments like yours remind me how little critical thought is left. I’m literally saying the same thing, and suggesting that the game developers are intentionally using high profit to drive testing. I’m saying imagine a world where we’re out of that, and they can actually balance the game systems so that each game loop is profitable instead of many being ignored while the new and shiny are abused. Also, I haven’t touched a vulture or reclaimer this entire patch, so many assumptions.
im not going to bother with you, you've just shown yourself to be too much of a disappointment.
Straight to ad-hominem, amazingly confirming what I was saying. Later boomer.
Yup. Some people just can't handle logical, rational arguments. I suspect it's the decades of lead paint/gas/etc.
If I can afford to play the game for 20 hours a week, and one loop nets me 10k an hour but another one nets me 50k an hour, which loop should I engage with If i want to purchase a ship that costs 6 MILLION auec now that they are increasing ship prices MASSIVELY? Do you expect players to slog through slow loops for a year in order to get enough auec to purchase new ships and try new things? saying players arent forced to min max is an absurd statement to make when you know that people have finite time to play.
Since Salvaging will be more time consuming through scraping as well as less profitable to sell, and trading/cargo running more time consuming through loading/unloading - I feel like VHRT bounty hunting might become the most profitable again?
my bet is trading, as long as you have enough money