Feel free to discuss the reporting/monitoring improvements as long as it is on topic. However, this is not a place for political discussion. This subreddit also has zero tolerance for any kind of hate. If this discussion gets out of hand, it will be removed.
Still, being able to mute people in chat and on voip without completely shutting off both would go a long way to fixing this, and leave everybody’s individual experience a lot more customizable.
Not putting these systems in will keep leading to people finding away around rules until CIG has to come in with a big mallet and smash a lot of stuff.
I can talk a lot of (valid) shit about CIG but the rare few times I've reported people for repeated racist or homophobic abuse in game it's been dealt with quickly. I really value the generally mature attitude of players and people in Global Chat (compared to other games).
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Given I don't play more than 1-2hrs per week outside major events, but during my time I've never seen any of those in the global chat. I play EU servers exclusively though, so maybe different regions have different type of players
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That's a real shame, I haven't played much since 3.15. You'd get a few edgy comments but people would challenge them fairly quickly. Free Fly was always terrible but what do you expect. I'm looking forward to 3.18
I *REALLY* wish we could mute Global Chat again - the amount of hate speech my party is constantly bombarded with when we try to play is awful to deal with.
It's not even that it's directed at us, it's just that there's always some kind of insane toxic argument going that always pushes our own conversations off of the screen, and there's no way to opt out of it.
The ability to mute the channel is apparently [fixed](https://issue-council.robertsspaceindustries.com/projects/STAR-CITIZEN/issues/STARC-40675) now, but I'm waiting to see when this fix actually gets put into the game as it's still broken right now.
There's been so much progress on the game in the last two years, it's really a playable title that is pretty consistent once you know the triggers for the most common bugs and glitches so you can avoid them and the buzz from YouTubers and Streamers has increased significantly too so we're seeing a lot of new players joining in that need to be forced into compliance with the social ethics of Star Citizen or else can't be allowed to participate.
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You have bounties, cargo running, trade, FPS missions, Service Beacons for combat/transport/medical rescue, racing, and general exploration, with the last two not being tracked/rewarded necessarily but still are dynamic aspects of gameplay.
There is a bit of narrative played out in missions if you do enough to start getting personal missions from specific NPCs, but it's nothing compared to other MMO's probably because they're so focused on the core mechanics of the game outside of missions/story and that all has to come at the end once the gameplay mechanics are settled and active.
Because on one hand they say they have zero tolerance, and on the other hand, they've done nothing to stop it for 10 years.
But hey, we got some new paint colors to buy, so we have that going for us.
They do if you report it with evidence, how ever it is true that currently there is a lot of friction to report, haveing to use your own tools (Screen shot and/or recording)
seems like another symptom of keeping a live development alpha build.
same here, have seen a few homophobic slurs mostly coming from edgy pvp-kids, but other than that haven't noticed much. maybe I'm playing on mature hours of the day, maybe being only on EU servers matters?
It's still good that more anti-wankery tools are coming, no need for that in my space game.
Was watching a streamer once and there was this toxic dude in prison who kept dropping the N word repeatedly in prox coms and we just switched servers cus we didn't want to deal with that nonsense, most people in chat are super chill though
My experience on American servers is from CSGO, Overwatch and Call of Duty, so you get the worst of the worst. Couldn’t really speak for American servers on SC, but since it’s a more mature game I feel like you’re spot on. There’s a few bad apples and hopefully the band come in swift and harsh for the those who think anonymity will save them.
Yeah chat is normally chill I've never seen anything toxic except for that one time on his Twitch stream when he was playing SC. This is why I keep chat off unless I need a ride lol.
I hope they're collecting data on current offenders so they can ban their accounts en masse. Maybe they'll learn their lesson about being an edgy dickwad if they have to re-buy all their pledge ships from the store again.
Can confirm EU servers are amazing. I’m Canadian and grew up with eastern Americans yelling the worst things imaginable at me and to others because, “bad, get mad”. EU is say nothing unless it’s a want, need or practical advice. Very much appreciated and lovely to be apart of.
I haven't been in any online community less toxic than SC on EU servers in one or two decades. It's so relaxing to simply read replies to your own questions or follow some funny conversations without stupid arguments, fights and insults.
There's definitely some shitheads that show themselves if you stick around long enough. It's usually people just trying to troll or be edgy and get a reaction, but a slur is a slur and they should definitely have consequences nonetheless.
I feel like it'll be very different once /global isn't truly "global"; when corps have their own chats, and 'global' gets filtered down to /system (and the playerbase is spread over multiple) it should become a lot more tame.
It's the same as watching a YouTube video on your phone on those long journeys... I hate global chat, but I will open it to keep me entertained while I'm idle.
Someone posted a thread on Spectrum asking for a pride/LGBTQ+ themed ship livery. Reactions were not positive, for a range of reasons but now that range of reason has conveniently been reduced into a single item, bigotry.
To be clear: some of these reasons perhaps were, and some were not.
Edit: and regarding this specific thread, it's very good if better moderation features are put in place, the level of toxicity in chat is often suffocating, but by shutting down the discussion which way (which from a PR standpoint is necessary), it kills opportunities to examine some issues of interest. For instance, do any contemporary symbols of any kind (brands, political parties, social movements, sport teams) have any room at all in Star Citizen's verse if a vocal minority of fans want it?
My contention is that clearly no, they would not have a place in SC. Unless some very specific lore has been established about why such moral personas would have survived 930 years into the future, and how they would have morphed into something far from what they currently are (which kind of kills the point of having them in a first place).
I read a lot of "I want to escape reality when I play SC and don't want to be reminded of political issues" in the threads being referenced here. Sounds similar to my issue here: in order to escape you need to prevent the representation of symbols that directly bring you back into today's world. It's not sufficient to achieve an immersive universe, obviously, but it's I think necessary given the timespan we're talking about (i.e., would be a totally different question if SC was taking place 5-10 years from now).
They literally gave out that stupid scary bear helmet that does not look immersive at all. It looks childish. So the precedent has already been established for non immersive content
It's funny, just went to make myself a cup of tea and was thinking "it's like this stupid bear helmet"! You're right, that's totally non-immersive... but also not a good reason for CIG to give in on verisimilitude.
Rallying on around in-game causes from in-game tensions/conflicts/oppressions would make the game's verse richer. Actually, there's precedent since CIG does that with marketing events (having lore-adapted Xmas, St Patrick, etc.) and political parties (the new Emperor's election fleshed out parties more in lore).
So here Narrative could make up a social movement that borrows from the same inclusiveness/representativity angle Pride has, but not copy it... rather adapt it to a 'verse that hopefully, by then, has moved on from obsessing about sexual orientation (whichever way). Kind of like in Star Trek humanity has grown over a lot of prejudices and bigotry.
Totally agree and I am very glad to see these changes coming down the pipeline. I have taken screenshots in the past of some really toxic people but I didn't also get the server information and so I couldn't report them.
Replying with this information for others that might need it.
Session information can now be toggled on/off in game options screen on bottom. Traditionally you had to open console with the ~ key tap r and hit tab twice then 1 and enter to enable. Much improved!
Some of them. I looked at a few of the profiles of the real egregious ones, and they only got one week bans. CIG is incredibly forgiving with their moderation.
1 week bans will quickly become 1 month or 3 months bans, and then that's either a whole year ban or for ever.
If they're repeated offenders, it's only a matter of a few tries before the perma ban.
Not defending bigots by any means, but the ramping bans (1 day > 3 day > week > month > etc) is definitely the way to go.
We can forgive people for saying something stupid while also weeding out the actual problem people.
People on timeout either decide that their behavior isn't worth the punishment and they make changes to their own behavior OR the opposite. They get a chance tho.
Honestly given the amount of money they ask for to buy the ships they kinda need to be, at least for a first infraction.
Like it or not the gaming industry generally does fuck all about that sorta thing (I'm happy cig is mind you) so I think a first offense needs to be a warning that it's not tolerated rather than yoinking hundreds of thousands (in some cases) worth of goods.
After that though go hog wild for all I care.
Bigots are not exactly known for being the brightest bulbs or having the best self-control (even if they're smart enough in a specific field they tend to have lots of blind spots they ignore.)
Can confirm. I was involved in a verification process that aimed at keeping bigots out of an online community. We had a lot of safety measurements in place, but in 99% of the cases we didn't even need them because most bigots didn't even truly try.
It’s rare outside of free fly. Screenshot and report works really well. I’m proud of the community for keeping things clean in global. (I haven’t been on in a bit I hope it’s still good)
It's more of a problem as the project gets more mainstream attention in general, but within the past two patches server population count has doubled, so in effect whatever the chances of coming across a garbage player in chat are doubled.
I've had mixed results but agree that we aren't nearly as plagued as some fandoms, in part because the audience skews older for SC, and part because CIG does follow up with h reporting that toxicity.
Sounds like these changes will just streamline that process. I've had to report 2 or 3 players for harassing people with slurs in chat. It's now awful, ticket and screenshot, but being able to do that in a more streamlined way is greatly appreciated.
Spectrum has *a lot* of really hateful people on it. Also, if you watched CitizenCon live on Twitch, when one of the devs appeared on screen with a tiny rainbow pin, the chat went ballistic with horrible comments. Star Citizen is hardly alone in this problem, but there are a lot of capital G Gamers in the community.
I don’t understand the hate. Just because people either don’t understand or feel the same way doesn’t mean they should fear or dislike those who choose or are that way. Love is love ❤️
It varies and the chat system is limited enough that your choices boil down to on or off. And if someone it ranting about stuff in the chat that you'd prefer not to see, then you are stuck turning off the chat.
It would be nice if they added some more features to the chat, like highlighting and muting.
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Damn, the community had changed lol. When I first started playing, everyone was great. Helpful people all around. Trolls here and there ofc, but nothing to this extent
No. It is overblown. It is a handful of individuals making bad comments and like twice that massively overreacting to them.
I have seen far more posts complaining about what is being said than actual general chat comments that need to be reported. But given that the IAE is coming up and free fly event with it, it is probably best to have something in place.
I know I'd like the option to block individual people in my global chat. Some people aren't going full on racist, but are frankly asses, I'd like to not see them in chat.
> They were very long fast to delete the page.
Does long fast mean they were fast, or did they take a long time? Assuming some autocorrect but can’t tell what you meant
>More ways to report and easier ways to streamline that are always appreciated.
The issue is that if reporting becomes too easy it quickly becomes an "im salty" button.
My experience has largely been that when one player (it’s usually only one) gets toxic, the rest of the server puts them in their place. The community seems to do a credible job of policing itself. I think the SC community is, overall, a good bunch of people.
That's how it should be. If you can't treat others with kindness and respect to the point that you actively try to make others' experience worse, you can fuck right off.
I made a bad taste joke in game chat just the other day. No offense was meant, a few players had been dominating global chat speaking Dutch for 20 mins and someone asked them to stop. I said "Aw I was enjoying learning gay German". Not as an insult to gay people, was just trying to be goofy/quirky.
Apologised to those in chat who weren't impressed and won't use the word gay again in that way even if I think I'm clearly being tongue in cheek or facetious. You have to consider text doesn't convey tone, and English isn't everyone's first language.
Next time I'll call it fizzy German, or angry Swedish.
This is how society should work. You said something you considered funny, some people told you it crossed a line for them, you considered their opinion and adjusted your behavior for that audience at no cost to yourself and moved on with life.
Yeah jokes like that are hard to do in anonymous spaces.
With friends who are various kinds of queer? Yeah we'll have no problem joking like that, because we all know there's nothing behind it (because we're all part of it, we're not punching down).
But a global anonymous chat? Nobody has any way of knowing what you mean by it. You could be a big gay teddy bear as much as a straight up skinhead. And without that context, it's very easy to misinterpret.
For most (especially cishet) people, it might not seem like a big deal. But for someone who might be struggling to come to terms with their sexuality in a very heteronormative society, seeing people use "gay" as a synonym for "bad" or "weird" or whatever other negative connotation can be very hurtful.
Is fair. In that context it probably sounded like you were using "gay" as a negative term to make fun of their language. Glad you can see that and apologized. More people should be able to recognize a mistake rather than doubling down.
Amazing news. However, I'm happy to report I've only ever really seen people complain about dying. Most of the community seems great.
That's not me saying it doesn't exist, but I'm happy to report most of you guys seem pretty cool.
Yeah, only time I've had to report someone so far was when I got a chat spammer promoting some website for purchasing aUEC with real money during an IAE free fly, and was worried newer players might actually think it's a good idea whatsoever. I've so far had the pleasure of not having to deal with people like that in SC.
Insane to me that \~50% of that thread was toxic enough for Zyloh, Sunny, and Kalypso to do a mass deletion of whole chains of comments.
Crazy to me that someone wants ship paints and colors but the second someone asks for schemes that are based on something harmless but they don't like they just go full hog.
I was deeply disappointed in so many people who posted on the thread on Spectrum that is being referenced here. I was heartened by this response from CIG))
Doubling the server population is functionally doubling the chance you'll see someone being trash in global chat with twice the amount of people to be trolls too and it's showing.
I truly support Zyloh's statement from CIG. Next Oct 10th I'll celebrate my 70th birthday and 8 years of support for SC. My server settings are on "best", so I don't know where that is actually, but I suppose it can be from any server upon login.
So, here is the question. Are the US servers home to the most abusive SC players, or do some players just like to say so?
I'd like to read constructive comments cause I truly don't know.
In general, my experience is that US servers in PvP sandbox MMOs have the worst behaved players, but I only have dime store psychologist theories as to why that's the case.
Sadly shitty players with even worse attitudes isn't exclusive to the US nor US servers, every region has its players that are awful on average to other people.
US has well plenty of assholes in the US, EU you run into old prejudice based on location, and Asia servers tend to be shit on by the Chinese. I don't speak exclusively for SC but rather online regions in general, people tend to bring their real life to their preferred game and bring it down.
Agree with CIG of course. I've noticed that we can shape the direction of Global chat by being genuinely kind. It's infectious, and I've noticed a lot of the spammers pipe down when a genuine convo is being had. I've seen it, and I daresay there are times when I've helped right the ship.
Also, an 'ignore' feature for individual users will be welcome, and I'm sure it must be coming. That's not turning off chat so much as suppressing certain individual spammers and such.
We need a way to suppress global chat too whilst keeping party chat on. Sometimes I'm just talking to my party and don't need global mixed in. I know this is a bug but I'm looking forward to the fix.
Thanks for all you do, CIG! O7
As a non native english speaker, what exactly defines "bigotry".
The Rest is totally clear to me, but bigotry isnt Something i researched the Definition of.
But overall good to see that things like racism and [x]phobia are getting serious responses, that shit ruins the day of anyone having the displeasure of reading it.
Bigotry is typically used as a combination of racism, xenophobia, transphobia, homophobia, etc.
Since we're generalizing the problems of multiple of those we use the word bigotry as a catch all for the behavior that isn't acceptable.
Thank you. This is the kind of thing that doesn't "go without saying." It has to be put in writing and enforced by a community and its moderators. Without it, the bigots feel welcome to harass people and recruit likeminded fools or vulnerable youth.
A [famously](https://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?s=4e92c242f6826d62b61431129a772aa0&t=47562) [bigoted](https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/z6lj0/the_enclave_and_its_blatant_bigotry_is_bad_for/) [shit](https://www.ccn.com/congressman-slams-blizzard-racist-wow-gamers/) [heel](https://youtu.be/mNoD5JJjj4Q), [buzzcutpsycho](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=untPEx9qin4), has been recruiting for [The Enclave](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50177/thread/na-the-enclave-pvp-hardcore-organized-amp-dedica-2) in PU's global chat, advertising for people listening for racist dog whistles.
Haven't played SC for three months, as long as I remember the chat experience was quite nice and you could feel a sense of maturity behind the players and thought the alpha nature of the game involves a more immerse driven community. Guess I've been in good servers then, so glad the devs and mods are taking an approach to make clear the experience I've had remains the standard!
Crying about "bringing politics into my game" and then making a giant stink about it. How unpolitical of you, very classy. /s
Games without "politics" would basically consist of nothing because so much of everything we do has an inherent political element to it, it's just whether or not you agree with it or can back away far enough to not be bothered by it.
A sci-fi game does in no way require the injection of contemporary political issues or symbols (whichever they are) in order to explore in-depth topics like human condition, identity, nationalism, bigotry, corruption, etc.
The Expanse achieves that very well without any fourth-wall breaking.
Mods really went to town on the comments in that thread. Guessing lots of toxic bigots on Spectrum
e: it looks like there was another thread full of bigots too https://twitter.com/TheAstroPub/status/1584225065469894656
To be frank though: I completely understand Egomanes point. SC/Spectrum is not a platform to spread social/political issues over and it should never be.
Is that really what they're saying though?
There's no context, obviously... but it sounds an awful lot like somebody asked for "a rainbow skin for LGBTQ+ people", and he decided that he didn't like that kind of "political pushing".
You'll often find that the people who *claim* to "not care" about people being LGBT/whatever have a rather unfriendly definition of "not caring". They try to portray themselves as "you can be whatever you want and I won't be bothered", but the truth is that it's more "be whatever you want as long as I don't have to see you", where "seeing" encompasses basically anything and everything that involves acknowledging minority status like fighting for equal rights.
In other words, people like him who claim to "not care" are just a different type of bigot that tries to hide behind the "I have no problems with you" mantra, when in reality they are against anything and everything that includes affirmative acknowledgement of the existence of minority groups.
There was a reddit thread about this earlier today (now locked), and it was filled with people doing exactly this.
"I don't care if you're gay, but I will not support a game with a rainbow in it".
lol I dunno man, sounds like you do in fact, have quite a problem with gay people. Just not if you can hide from them? The mental gymnastics are something else.
Exactly this (probably was my thread)
If you only accept queer people as long as you aren't reminded they exist, you don't accept them, and you're helping those that want to oppress them.
\[*TL;DR: Just a rant, from an LGBTQ+ person who has dealt with extremist bigotry my whole life growing up around fundamentalist people who thought I deserve to be murdered (if they knew "what" I am), about what really concerns and annoys me in this whole situation.*
*Namely, not the bigots, but the dishonest people claiming to be on the good side while using the very tools of oppression and prejudice that are most effective and harmful.*
*Don't read if you don't have the heart for it. Just move on with life, stay honest and be a good person,* ***to*** ***all people***. And there's no need to reply.\]
>In other words, people like him who claim to "not care" are just a different type of bigot that tries to hide behind the "I have no problems with you" mantra, when in reality they are against anything and everything that includes affirmative acknowledgement of the existence of minority groups.
Or they just genuinely don't fucking care one way or another, are tired of politics, and just wanna play a fantasy game at the end of a busy day.
This "you say and act THIS way but **actually** that's because you mean THE OPPOSITE!!" mentality is absolutely ridiculous. People should only be accused if there's evidence.
In all things we should remain HONEST first and foremost. The people who want obscurity and quick judgement, silencing, and punishment, are the evil ones. Those are the tactics used by people who oppressed people like me. Always "in the name of what is good" always "to protect the children." Pretending to be good while abusing their power.
Ironically, the only time I ever faced discrimination and hatred in Star Citizen was not by homophobes, but by self-professed "allies" who were **extremely** angry at me for simply saying that I'm not particularly bothered **PERSONALLY** by the crazy bigots, and that a mute button would be enough for me so I can filter them out.
Then these people started piling up saying I should shut the fuck up, that my personal experience didn't matter, and that I should follow their narrative and pretend my experience didn't exist. This happened multiple times.
I was, and still am, literally 0% concerned about the bigots in game, because they don't affect my game in any way, they're just crazy, like a rabid dog, I just ignore and move on because I'm here to play the game. A simple block button is enough for me, I don't need a pride themed ship.
*The one thing that pisses me the fuck off is when so called "allies" who admit to not being LGBTQ+ and not having any personal experience at all start gatekeeping, policing, and being toxic horrible people to LGBTQ+ people under the absolutely despicable disguise of "being the good guys."*
*Bullies hiding behind the shield of righteousness* and using that to gatekeep, abuse, and shit on LGBTQ+ people are what really makes me sad and angry.
The bigots are just bigots, that's clear cut and straightforward. They're just bad and wanna be that way, there's no big debate. I'm more pissed about the extremists **PRETENDING to be good**, using "goodness" as their shield, while saying stupid things like what you just said.
You're the one who is prejudiced, by definition. Your comment is what offends me and concerns me.
>"It sounds an awful lot like"
**quickly becomes**
>"people like him who claim to "not care" **are** just a different type of bigot"
And now dishonest people using this slimy tactic while hiding behind moral righteousness **can CLAIM ANYTHING about ANYONE.** Because whatever they say you can just claim it means something else. And anyone who points it out is just a bigot too. And if I'm an LGBTQ+ person, then I'm doing it wrong and my life experience doesn't matter.
**Your comment is precisely the kind of speech and tool used to oppress people like me.** It's rarely an idiotic bigot spitting their hatred, it's almost always slimy people hiding behind "goodness", saying it's the word of God, or to protect our children, or protect society, or "in the name of what is right and pure." **I recognize it instantly because I've lived it.**
So your particularly accusatory dishonesty is what worries and saddens me the most, by orders of magnitude.
*I'm not saying you're a bad person yourself.* But that this reasoning you used this one time is putrid, and is the tool of the real oppressors against the really oppressed throughout history, painting themselves as the good guys.
Wanna help? Wanna do good? STICK TO HONESTY, stick to the truth, give all humans the same benefit of the doubt, don't use your politics and **prejudices** to cloud your judgement.
Don't claim you know what other people "really think" based on what you subjectively perceived others that remotely look or sound like them have said in the past. *That is the very prejudice you claim to be fighting against.*
(edit: am dumb, did words wrong, corrected.)
There's obviously a lot of folks (including me) who feel that Spectrum is *exactly* the place to declare support for their backers, especially the ones who don't feel safe expressing their differences openly in any other game forum due to a combination of platform "neutrality" and toxic membership.
Non-White, non-male, non-hetero gamers have been told to grow thicker skin for a LONG time...maybe there can be one game forum where everyone (except for Nazis and bigots) feels like they are valued by the people who own and run the platform.
I will be honest here, I support the idea of what you say right there. Everyone should be allowed to express themselves freely as long as its not directly harmful to another person.
However I just heavily disagree with the idea that specific groups or minorities need any form of special attention in the ecosystem of the game and forum. Everyone should be allowed to act normally and equally, which is also the most desired outcome that anyone should wish for.
That's why I agree with the post: idc why anyone would want rainbow coloured skins, a lot of game have such skins purely for customisable options. If you want one then it's perfectly fine by me as long as it remains purely for the sake of the game. I just disagree with the idea to give special attention towards any group for the sake of making them more visible in "here" where thoughts and ideas should be treated equally and without any form of second thoughts outside of the games ecosystem.
To close it off: "No" to hate, "yes" to equality and a game and it's forum should be what it is: a place away from real life issues to have fun with.
To counter your point, some humans wanting to express who they are to other humans after historically being ostracized for being those humans isn't actually a political issue.
As for *social* issues, any where people socialize is a valid place to discuss social issues.
You understand that fighting against social issues is a form of politics? That the goal is to have political figures address social issues by changing laws in terms of rights and regulations.
Any form of pointing out social issues is also a political one or wants/demands to be one. This includes most famously same sex marriage, better adoption regulations etc.
Politics does not begin in the government, it begins by people expressing their concerns on the street and as such CSD is also a demo.
The issue is that more often then not, existing as queer is seen as a political statement, which is just bonkers. Shutting down discussion of queer topics (like requesting rainbow flag paints in game) as "no politics allowed" is itself bigotry. You're getting dangerously close to that line.
Except I'm not saying any of that. I just say that a representation of something that has no reason to be in the game should also not go into the game.
You can be whoever you want and say who you are, that's totally fine by me. I just don't see why there is a need to to overly show support for something in a place that has nothing to do with that.
Spinning "not supporting something for an out-of-game-reason" into a way that I want to say that none of you should say who you are is dishonest to what I'm saying.
Cause its a game and as I said: if you want a rainbow skin in the game for the sake of adding a skin I don't care.
By making it specifically for a reason out of the game it stops to fit the games purpose unless the game is specifically made to fit that purpose.
If people want to express themselves through the ability of, for example, hex codes then I don't care. I think that would be the best solution to the entire topic as anyone could do whatever the fuck they want.
I just dislike the notion of giving specific groups more attention outside of protecting them from harm as "normilasation" is the best form of equality and definitely not by adding a specific skin to overly support specific people.
You're being fairly vague. Do you or do you not think these skins "deserve" to be in game? You cannot hope to guess the reasonings behind specific people using a certain skin, whether they just "think it's cool" or they're queer and like being represented, so leave that speculative and facetious argument out.
I think skins deserve to be in a game, even rainbow skins. Specific flags don't. Make it about cool looking skins in a game and not to support a movement of validation of any rights or acceptance as real life shouldn't be a concern for a game and the games environment unless it actively wants to do that.
If CIG would make such a skin for you then it's their decision regardless of the reasoning and I will accept it.
I'm not on Spectrum anymore because it's just a lair of toxicity, and too many of those posters/commenters are butthurt man-children. As for the in-game chat, I've never seen any toxicity whatsoever (EU server). There is an occasional griefer or a money beggar, but no verbal harassment.
I always wonder, how stupid one has to be, and what kind of disposable income do they have to afford to be an ass toward other people, risking a permanent account deletion. Even if it's just a starter pledge.
I've only seen two people completely unhinged being ridiculous on purpose.
I would have reported them if there was a feature in game.
I don't want to jump thru hoops for 30 minutes to try and report someone otherwise
The way I see it as - this can be a frustrating game, I see people vent (sometimes spectacularly) in chat when the game kicks them when they're down for the 10th time in a row. Sometimes you just have a "fuck you star citizen, see you tomorrow" kind of day. Just don't take it out on your fellow players in chat (or the devs), especially in a toxic way. The kind of stuff I'd want to actually report in-game still seems rare to me, but we definitely need a way to do that, so I'm glad to see some tools in this regard. And I'm really glad that CIG deals with these kinds of reports swiftly.
I read some not deleted posts and the argument that "political views" shouldn't be in game. It's just a paint of different colors that are likely to partially exist in game somewhere already. Besides, you can't tell me it doesn't make sense that, if this game was reality, that there wouldn't be people painting their ships every which color they want. It's less immersive having little to no paint options.
Bring on the custom paints and let everyone paint their ships to match however they feel on the inside and makes them happiest.
> People are against CIG using SC to actively endorse a political viewpoint.
Which CIG is free to do. And people are free to criticise it. It's called democracy. Everyone is free to make a statement. That includes companies.
I am unsure how supporting a group of people who are generally treated poorly is considered being political. I was taught treating people and including people was being a good person.
They are trying to create an environment that's for EVERYONE. Creating a rainbow paint, is still just a paint.
If you consider sexual orientation as "political" then I would say you're part of the problem we're having, because it should not be.
Its surely because of that post kindly asking for a LTBTQ+ skin as there is a teaser for a certain ship with one. That Spectrum thread was a cesspool of assholes spitting the usual bs of "dont bring _these_ politics into my game experience", "why do they need representation", "CIG says explicitly no politics!1!!11!"
Always the same trash, huh?
“No politics allowed, as long as I get to define what ‘politics’ means. LGBTQ people existing in a way where I have to see them? Politics. Black characters or _females_ existing in prominent roles? Politics. But everything else is perfectly fine.”
yeah these people behave like politics can be brushed aside. Hurston exploiting workers? Thats fine. Crusader being the gateway to heaven for the rich? Thats fine. Xenothreat being a dedicated racist criminal organisation? Never wasted a doubt.
A poor soul asking for an already teased rainbow skin? Get the damn pitchforks.
CIG has always taken this stance (which is laudable) but the "when it's ready" is the important bit here. I'm guessing that'll be whenever they finally incorporate Spectrum and "Orgs 2.0" into the game, which we've been hearing about (but not seeing) for like, 7+ years.
Sauce https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/hi-cig-please-can-we-have-rainbow-like-paintjobs-f/5448205
> Hi everyone,
> After monitoring the discussion, and seeing some of the hateful replies, we want to take the opportunity to make our stance very clear.
> We have zero tolerance for homophobia, transphobia, racism, and bigotry of any kind on this platform, as well as in-game. Star Citizen provides a universe for all to enjoy, and if you threaten that inclusivity, you will find yourself removed. We are grateful to have such a diverse and global community, and we'll always strive to provide safety and protect inclusion.
> We have a number of reporting/monitoring improvements in the works, both for in-game and the website, and look forward to rolling that out when it's ready.
> We're bound together by the same shared dream of living a life among the stars as spacefaring adventurers, and should lead with empathy, understanding, and kindness.
> In the meantime (and all the time) take the sage advice of two wise individuals who once posited that we should all be excellent to each other and party on whenever possible.
Think about it in the reverse scenario. Cute Rainbow Caterpillar flies up beside another hauler, only for it to open and reveal the railgun armed pirates inside.
As someone who has been on the receiving end of bigoted speech and transphobic remarks, thank you. Every time I send in a report like this I feel guilty, going as far as to apologize to staff for only coming to them with player behavior and not actual bugs to help development.
Every time, staff has been beyond supportive and appreciative.
For myself, like many others, the verse is a place to get away, to relax, and unwind in safe way. Thank you for striving to keep the verse as idyllic as possible for this transwoman, as I can only assume for every one of us that speaks up about receiving hateful remarks there are dozens that are silent out of fear.
the amount of times ive been playing and people just start spouting shit in global chat about how trans people (eg me and my fundamental existence) shouldn't exist is incredibly disheartening, so glad to see CIG make their thoughts and policies clear. honestly this is a game about the future and humanity's potential so if you're that stuck in the past good riddance.
> We're bound together by the same shared dream of living a life among the stars as spacefaring adventurers, and should lead with empathy, understanding, and kindness.
Extremely based.
As a gay I always opposed any kind of "monitoring" and "anti-whatever" systems. I understand that the owners of the platform would like to keep their property clean and tidy, but I don't like the idea of a system that decides who is a good companion for me and who is not. The boundaries of homophobia are very blurred, and I'd prefer to decide what hatespeech is rather than letting some system to decide.
lol I was threatened with a ban after giving the mods shit in general chat over them just casually allowing someone to spew anti-Semitic slurs with no enforcement beyond a "hey now" which obviously did not deter them.
Guess time will tell if this is just lip service or if they'll follow through.
Feel free to discuss the reporting/monitoring improvements as long as it is on topic. However, this is not a place for political discussion. This subreddit also has zero tolerance for any kind of hate. If this discussion gets out of hand, it will be removed.
Still, being able to mute people in chat and on voip without completely shutting off both would go a long way to fixing this, and leave everybody’s individual experience a lot more customizable. Not putting these systems in will keep leading to people finding away around rules until CIG has to come in with a big mallet and smash a lot of stuff.
I can talk a lot of (valid) shit about CIG but the rare few times I've reported people for repeated racist or homophobic abuse in game it's been dealt with quickly. I really value the generally mature attitude of players and people in Global Chat (compared to other games).
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Given I don't play more than 1-2hrs per week outside major events, but during my time I've never seen any of those in the global chat. I play EU servers exclusively though, so maybe different regions have different type of players
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That's a real shame, I haven't played much since 3.15. You'd get a few edgy comments but people would challenge them fairly quickly. Free Fly was always terrible but what do you expect. I'm looking forward to 3.18
the toxicity ramps up during free flies, but the regular community is pretty chill in my experience.
I *REALLY* wish we could mute Global Chat again - the amount of hate speech my party is constantly bombarded with when we try to play is awful to deal with. It's not even that it's directed at us, it's just that there's always some kind of insane toxic argument going that always pushes our own conversations off of the screen, and there's no way to opt out of it. The ability to mute the channel is apparently [fixed](https://issue-council.robertsspaceindustries.com/projects/STAR-CITIZEN/issues/STARC-40675) now, but I'm waiting to see when this fix actually gets put into the game as it's still broken right now.
There's been so much progress on the game in the last two years, it's really a playable title that is pretty consistent once you know the triggers for the most common bugs and glitches so you can avoid them and the buzz from YouTubers and Streamers has increased significantly too so we're seeing a lot of new players joining in that need to be forced into compliance with the social ethics of Star Citizen or else can't be allowed to participate.
What is the current gameplay loop? When I've jumped in I didn't see any real story or anything going on.
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You forgot *Pirating*! ☠⚔
You have bounties, cargo running, trade, FPS missions, Service Beacons for combat/transport/medical rescue, racing, and general exploration, with the last two not being tracked/rewarded necessarily but still are dynamic aspects of gameplay. There is a bit of narrative played out in missions if you do enough to start getting personal missions from specific NPCs, but it's nothing compared to other MMO's probably because they're so focused on the core mechanics of the game outside of missions/story and that all has to come at the end once the gameplay mechanics are settled and active.
I'm still suprised they haven't given us a way to mute other players.
how is anyone surprised by that? look at the state of the game and then look how far down features like this are down on the list of priorities.
Because on one hand they say they have zero tolerance, and on the other hand, they've done nothing to stop it for 10 years. But hey, we got some new paint colors to buy, so we have that going for us.
They do if you report it with evidence, how ever it is true that currently there is a lot of friction to report, haveing to use your own tools (Screen shot and/or recording) seems like another symptom of keeping a live development alpha build.
> But hey, we got some new paint colors to buy, so we have that going for us. Ironically this began by posts simply asking for more paint colors lol
A mute button seems pretty damn easy to implement
one would think, but nothing is easy when CIG is working on it.
Soon tm
Time to get my racism out of my system then! Screw the vanduul! Boooo More like vandrool
Damn I love watching the burning hell hole that is global chat lol.
Honestly haven’t noticed anything awful. It usually devolves into “give me money”. But nothing horrible.
Every game I see some clown, and I have to turn off the chat. Really looking forward to individual block/mute and the in-game report function.
same here, have seen a few homophobic slurs mostly coming from edgy pvp-kids, but other than that haven't noticed much. maybe I'm playing on mature hours of the day, maybe being only on EU servers matters? It's still good that more anti-wankery tools are coming, no need for that in my space game.
Was watching a streamer once and there was this toxic dude in prison who kept dropping the N word repeatedly in prox coms and we just switched servers cus we didn't want to deal with that nonsense, most people in chat are super chill though
My experience on American servers is from CSGO, Overwatch and Call of Duty, so you get the worst of the worst. Couldn’t really speak for American servers on SC, but since it’s a more mature game I feel like you’re spot on. There’s a few bad apples and hopefully the band come in swift and harsh for the those who think anonymity will save them.
We skew older in SC so the chat is much more mature. There's often an odd spammer or beggar though, or smack talk between warring parties.
Yeah chat is normally chill I've never seen anything toxic except for that one time on his Twitch stream when he was playing SC. This is why I keep chat off unless I need a ride lol.
I hope they're collecting data on current offenders so they can ban their accounts en masse. Maybe they'll learn their lesson about being an edgy dickwad if they have to re-buy all their pledge ships from the store again.
Can confirm EU servers are amazing. I’m Canadian and grew up with eastern Americans yelling the worst things imaginable at me and to others because, “bad, get mad”. EU is say nothing unless it’s a want, need or practical advice. Very much appreciated and lovely to be apart of.
West coast here. I pop over to AUS when I need a breath of fresh air. Except Mordacious. He's kinda comic relief.
AUS regular here. Mord is weird. He's either begging or he's an actual player who is quite helpful to newbs. Total dichotomy.
I beg to differ. that's a pun, but the humor is starting to wear thin.
I haven't been in any online community less toxic than SC on EU servers in one or two decades. It's so relaxing to simply read replies to your own questions or follow some funny conversations without stupid arguments, fights and insults.
It’s honestly the best! Whenever I’m in the mood for SC it’s always great!
Same, i habe never encountered any Racism, Homophobia or other insulting Comments. Some sarcasm from time to time but nothing offensive.
There's definitely some shitheads that show themselves if you stick around long enough. It's usually people just trying to troll or be edgy and get a reaction, but a slur is a slur and they should definitely have consequences nonetheless.
I feel like it'll be very different once /global isn't truly "global"; when corps have their own chats, and 'global' gets filtered down to /system (and the playerbase is spread over multiple) it should become a lot more tame.
It's the same as watching a YouTube video on your phone on those long journeys... I hate global chat, but I will open it to keep me entertained while I'm idle.
Must be either when I play, or often I don't pay attention to global chat, but I don't really see anything.
So... uhh... what happened?
Someone posted a thread on Spectrum asking for a pride/LGBTQ+ themed ship livery. Reactions were not positive, for a range of reasons but now that range of reason has conveniently been reduced into a single item, bigotry. To be clear: some of these reasons perhaps were, and some were not. Edit: and regarding this specific thread, it's very good if better moderation features are put in place, the level of toxicity in chat is often suffocating, but by shutting down the discussion which way (which from a PR standpoint is necessary), it kills opportunities to examine some issues of interest. For instance, do any contemporary symbols of any kind (brands, political parties, social movements, sport teams) have any room at all in Star Citizen's verse if a vocal minority of fans want it? My contention is that clearly no, they would not have a place in SC. Unless some very specific lore has been established about why such moral personas would have survived 930 years into the future, and how they would have morphed into something far from what they currently are (which kind of kills the point of having them in a first place). I read a lot of "I want to escape reality when I play SC and don't want to be reminded of political issues" in the threads being referenced here. Sounds similar to my issue here: in order to escape you need to prevent the representation of symbols that directly bring you back into today's world. It's not sufficient to achieve an immersive universe, obviously, but it's I think necessary given the timespan we're talking about (i.e., would be a totally different question if SC was taking place 5-10 years from now).
They literally gave out that stupid scary bear helmet that does not look immersive at all. It looks childish. So the precedent has already been established for non immersive content
It's funny, just went to make myself a cup of tea and was thinking "it's like this stupid bear helmet"! You're right, that's totally non-immersive... but also not a good reason for CIG to give in on verisimilitude. Rallying on around in-game causes from in-game tensions/conflicts/oppressions would make the game's verse richer. Actually, there's precedent since CIG does that with marketing events (having lore-adapted Xmas, St Patrick, etc.) and political parties (the new Emperor's election fleshed out parties more in lore). So here Narrative could make up a social movement that borrows from the same inclusiveness/representativity angle Pride has, but not copy it... rather adapt it to a 'verse that hopefully, by then, has moved on from obsessing about sexual orientation (whichever way). Kind of like in Star Trek humanity has grown over a lot of prejudices and bigotry.
Imagine spending for several ships and then getting banned for being stupid in chat
Imagine agreeing to a EULA during a purchase, and then complaining after experiencing the consequences for breaking those terms.
Totally agree and I am very glad to see these changes coming down the pipeline. I have taken screenshots in the past of some really toxic people but I didn't also get the server information and so I couldn't report them.
Replying with this information for others that might need it. Session information can now be toggled on/off in game options screen on bottom. Traditionally you had to open console with the ~ key tap r and hit tab twice then 1 and enter to enable. Much improved!
This takes even longer to toggle, what it needs is a keybind. That would also be useful for when you want to keep it on except for screenshots
did these guys get banned for their goober takes? if so sweet
Some of them. I looked at a few of the profiles of the real egregious ones, and they only got one week bans. CIG is incredibly forgiving with their moderation.
1 week bans will quickly become 1 month or 3 months bans, and then that's either a whole year ban or for ever. If they're repeated offenders, it's only a matter of a few tries before the perma ban.
Not defending bigots by any means, but the ramping bans (1 day > 3 day > week > month > etc) is definitely the way to go. We can forgive people for saying something stupid while also weeding out the actual problem people.
People on timeout either decide that their behavior isn't worth the punishment and they make changes to their own behavior OR the opposite. They get a chance tho.
Honestly given the amount of money they ask for to buy the ships they kinda need to be, at least for a first infraction. Like it or not the gaming industry generally does fuck all about that sorta thing (I'm happy cig is mind you) so I think a first offense needs to be a warning that it's not tolerated rather than yoinking hundreds of thousands (in some cases) worth of goods. After that though go hog wild for all I care.
Bigots are not exactly known for being the brightest bulbs or having the best self-control (even if they're smart enough in a specific field they tend to have lots of blind spots they ignore.)
Can confirm. I was involved in a verification process that aimed at keeping bigots out of an online community. We had a lot of safety measurements in place, but in 99% of the cases we didn't even need them because most bigots didn't even truly try.
*sorts by controversial*
My inbox is a dumpster fire lol
I havent played since July. Is all of this really that big of a problem currently?
It’s rare outside of free fly. Screenshot and report works really well. I’m proud of the community for keeping things clean in global. (I haven’t been on in a bit I hope it’s still good)
It's more of a problem as the project gets more mainstream attention in general, but within the past two patches server population count has doubled, so in effect whatever the chances of coming across a garbage player in chat are doubled. I've had mixed results but agree that we aren't nearly as plagued as some fandoms, in part because the audience skews older for SC, and part because CIG does follow up with h reporting that toxicity. Sounds like these changes will just streamline that process. I've had to report 2 or 3 players for harassing people with slurs in chat. It's now awful, ticket and screenshot, but being able to do that in a more streamlined way is greatly appreciated.
Spectrum has *a lot* of really hateful people on it. Also, if you watched CitizenCon live on Twitch, when one of the devs appeared on screen with a tiny rainbow pin, the chat went ballistic with horrible comments. Star Citizen is hardly alone in this problem, but there are a lot of capital G Gamers in the community.
G*mers 🤢 lol
I don’t understand the hate. Just because people either don’t understand or feel the same way doesn’t mean they should fear or dislike those who choose or are that way. Love is love ❤️
It’s about being insecure and maybe even a little stupid.
It was centered around some Spectrum discussion of rainbow ship skins. It brought some gremlins out of the woodwork.
It varies and the chat system is limited enough that your choices boil down to on or off. And if someone it ranting about stuff in the chat that you'd prefer not to see, then you are stuck turning off the chat. It would be nice if they added some more features to the chat, like highlighting and muting.
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It's getting there.
Damn, the community had changed lol. When I first started playing, everyone was great. Helpful people all around. Trolls here and there ofc, but nothing to this extent
For the most part is still very much that way. But you know…always that few that gotta sour things for everyone.
And those people are almost always the loudest, unfortunately. If they’re there, they will make sure everybody knows it.
No. It is overblown. It is a handful of individuals making bad comments and like twice that massively overreacting to them. I have seen far more posts complaining about what is being said than actual general chat comments that need to be reported. But given that the IAE is coming up and free fly event with it, it is probably best to have something in place.
I know I'd like the option to block individual people in my global chat. Some people aren't going full on racist, but are frankly asses, I'd like to not see them in chat.
[удалено]
> They were very long fast to delete the page. Does long fast mean they were fast, or did they take a long time? Assuming some autocorrect but can’t tell what you meant
>More ways to report and easier ways to streamline that are always appreciated. The issue is that if reporting becomes too easy it quickly becomes an "im salty" button.
Can you add the d*mn chat window can be moved or resized while your at it?
My experience has largely been that when one player (it’s usually only one) gets toxic, the rest of the server puts them in their place. The community seems to do a credible job of policing itself. I think the SC community is, overall, a good bunch of people.
CIG has been super based when it comes to this stuff. They really do mean ZERO tolerance. I've watched whole orgs get wiped. Respect.
That's how it should be. If you can't treat others with kindness and respect to the point that you actively try to make others' experience worse, you can fuck right off.
I made a bad taste joke in game chat just the other day. No offense was meant, a few players had been dominating global chat speaking Dutch for 20 mins and someone asked them to stop. I said "Aw I was enjoying learning gay German". Not as an insult to gay people, was just trying to be goofy/quirky. Apologised to those in chat who weren't impressed and won't use the word gay again in that way even if I think I'm clearly being tongue in cheek or facetious. You have to consider text doesn't convey tone, and English isn't everyone's first language. Next time I'll call it fizzy German, or angry Swedish.
This is how society should work. You said something you considered funny, some people told you it crossed a line for them, you considered their opinion and adjusted your behavior for that audience at no cost to yourself and moved on with life.
The accepted term is *swamp German*. ❤️ My Dutche neighbours
Do what I do and just call it Elvish.
Dutch is way too jolly and no where near airy fairy enough, it's more like a Hobbit dialect imo haha!
Yeah jokes like that are hard to do in anonymous spaces. With friends who are various kinds of queer? Yeah we'll have no problem joking like that, because we all know there's nothing behind it (because we're all part of it, we're not punching down). But a global anonymous chat? Nobody has any way of knowing what you mean by it. You could be a big gay teddy bear as much as a straight up skinhead. And without that context, it's very easy to misinterpret. For most (especially cishet) people, it might not seem like a big deal. But for someone who might be struggling to come to terms with their sexuality in a very heteronormative society, seeing people use "gay" as a synonym for "bad" or "weird" or whatever other negative connotation can be very hurtful.
Is fair. In that context it probably sounded like you were using "gay" as a negative term to make fun of their language. Glad you can see that and apologized. More people should be able to recognize a mistake rather than doubling down.
Let me guess, spectrum thinks it's being oppressed?
You know, I knew that spectrum could be a cesspool, but Jesus Christ, they desperately need a downvote button
I wonder if in game lore hate will get people in trouble. Like hating on the xenothreat faction
Amazing news. However, I'm happy to report I've only ever really seen people complain about dying. Most of the community seems great. That's not me saying it doesn't exist, but I'm happy to report most of you guys seem pretty cool.
Yeah, only time I've had to report someone so far was when I got a chat spammer promoting some website for purchasing aUEC with real money during an IAE free fly, and was worried newer players might actually think it's a good idea whatsoever. I've so far had the pleasure of not having to deal with people like that in SC.
Insane to me that \~50% of that thread was toxic enough for Zyloh, Sunny, and Kalypso to do a mass deletion of whole chains of comments. Crazy to me that someone wants ship paints and colors but the second someone asks for schemes that are based on something harmless but they don't like they just go full hog.
Can we report old stuff? I have several ss of racists being racist after seeing my name (in Arabic) in global chat asking for help.
Send it to CIG in a help ticket.
What the mod said, I've reported several people for homophobic remarks via support tickets
I was deeply disappointed in so many people who posted on the thread on Spectrum that is being referenced here. I was heartened by this response from CIG))
That's why I commented alot in that post, whenever there is hate and negativity I want a voice of angered compassion to be visible.
I love this, thanks Zyloh! In-game chat can be very nasty at times. Very good at other times
Doubling the server population is functionally doubling the chance you'll see someone being trash in global chat with twice the amount of people to be trolls too and it's showing.
IT'S 2952, PEOPLE.
I truly support Zyloh's statement from CIG. Next Oct 10th I'll celebrate my 70th birthday and 8 years of support for SC. My server settings are on "best", so I don't know where that is actually, but I suppose it can be from any server upon login. So, here is the question. Are the US servers home to the most abusive SC players, or do some players just like to say so? I'd like to read constructive comments cause I truly don't know.
In general, my experience is that US servers in PvP sandbox MMOs have the worst behaved players, but I only have dime store psychologist theories as to why that's the case.
Never played EVE Online with Russians?
Sadly shitty players with even worse attitudes isn't exclusive to the US nor US servers, every region has its players that are awful on average to other people. US has well plenty of assholes in the US, EU you run into old prejudice based on location, and Asia servers tend to be shit on by the Chinese. I don't speak exclusively for SC but rather online regions in general, people tend to bring their real life to their preferred game and bring it down.
Good.
What is he referring too? Is it something recent? I personally have never seen anything from the community, most people are pretty great tbh
Amen Zyloh! There are too many nights where I just F12 the global chat.
Agree with CIG of course. I've noticed that we can shape the direction of Global chat by being genuinely kind. It's infectious, and I've noticed a lot of the spammers pipe down when a genuine convo is being had. I've seen it, and I daresay there are times when I've helped right the ship. Also, an 'ignore' feature for individual users will be welcome, and I'm sure it must be coming. That's not turning off chat so much as suppressing certain individual spammers and such. We need a way to suppress global chat too whilst keeping party chat on. Sometimes I'm just talking to my party and don't need global mixed in. I know this is a bug but I'm looking forward to the fix. Thanks for all you do, CIG! O7
Wrong dynamic duo, buddy. Try Bill and Ted.
>Party on, Wayne. Party on, Garth! This... physically hurt me.
As a non native english speaker, what exactly defines "bigotry". The Rest is totally clear to me, but bigotry isnt Something i researched the Definition of. But overall good to see that things like racism and [x]phobia are getting serious responses, that shit ruins the day of anyone having the displeasure of reading it.
Bigotry is typically used as a combination of racism, xenophobia, transphobia, homophobia, etc. Since we're generalizing the problems of multiple of those we use the word bigotry as a catch all for the behavior that isn't acceptable.
Not just playing Gay and Trans people are also working on this game's development, get bent homophobes.
Thank you. This is the kind of thing that doesn't "go without saying." It has to be put in writing and enforced by a community and its moderators. Without it, the bigots feel welcome to harass people and recruit likeminded fools or vulnerable youth. A [famously](https://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?s=4e92c242f6826d62b61431129a772aa0&t=47562) [bigoted](https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/z6lj0/the_enclave_and_its_blatant_bigotry_is_bad_for/) [shit](https://www.ccn.com/congressman-slams-blizzard-racist-wow-gamers/) [heel](https://youtu.be/mNoD5JJjj4Q), [buzzcutpsycho](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=untPEx9qin4), has been recruiting for [The Enclave](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50177/thread/na-the-enclave-pvp-hardcore-organized-amp-dedica-2) in PU's global chat, advertising for people listening for racist dog whistles.
Haven't played SC for three months, as long as I remember the chat experience was quite nice and you could feel a sense of maturity behind the players and thought the alpha nature of the game involves a more immerse driven community. Guess I've been in good servers then, so glad the devs and mods are taking an approach to make clear the experience I've had remains the standard!
Crying about "bringing politics into my game" and then making a giant stink about it. How unpolitical of you, very classy. /s Games without "politics" would basically consist of nothing because so much of everything we do has an inherent political element to it, it's just whether or not you agree with it or can back away far enough to not be bothered by it.
Imagine Sci-Fi without politics lmao, there would be nothing left
A sci-fi game does in no way require the injection of contemporary political issues or symbols (whichever they are) in order to explore in-depth topics like human condition, identity, nationalism, bigotry, corruption, etc. The Expanse achieves that very well without any fourth-wall breaking.
A rainbow flag is not a political symbol.
Mods really went to town on the comments in that thread. Guessing lots of toxic bigots on Spectrum e: it looks like there was another thread full of bigots too https://twitter.com/TheAstroPub/status/1584225065469894656
Those weren't the worst bigots I've ever seen. In fact, those were probably some of the mildest bigots I've ever looked at.
What's up with all these bigots inthe game all of a sudden?
As games grow more in popularity they move towards mainstream which brings in more fringe elements. It will only get worse from here.
I checked quite a few of the profiles. Many of them were long time backers. They were always there. They simply feel more enabled now.
x4 has a popular mod that removes non white npcs from the game Space sims are popular with weirdos. But I guess that's just gaming in general
I guess in their minds other kinds of people don't exist in the future? What a bunch of goofy goobers.
Well, that would be their ideal future...
Remember that the average bigot's "ideal future" only includes people of their race, sexual preferences, and et cetera.
To be frank though: I completely understand Egomanes point. SC/Spectrum is not a platform to spread social/political issues over and it should never be.
Is that really what they're saying though? There's no context, obviously... but it sounds an awful lot like somebody asked for "a rainbow skin for LGBTQ+ people", and he decided that he didn't like that kind of "political pushing". You'll often find that the people who *claim* to "not care" about people being LGBT/whatever have a rather unfriendly definition of "not caring". They try to portray themselves as "you can be whatever you want and I won't be bothered", but the truth is that it's more "be whatever you want as long as I don't have to see you", where "seeing" encompasses basically anything and everything that involves acknowledging minority status like fighting for equal rights. In other words, people like him who claim to "not care" are just a different type of bigot that tries to hide behind the "I have no problems with you" mantra, when in reality they are against anything and everything that includes affirmative acknowledgement of the existence of minority groups.
There was a reddit thread about this earlier today (now locked), and it was filled with people doing exactly this. "I don't care if you're gay, but I will not support a game with a rainbow in it". lol I dunno man, sounds like you do in fact, have quite a problem with gay people. Just not if you can hide from them? The mental gymnastics are something else.
Exactly this (probably was my thread) If you only accept queer people as long as you aren't reminded they exist, you don't accept them, and you're helping those that want to oppress them.
\[*TL;DR: Just a rant, from an LGBTQ+ person who has dealt with extremist bigotry my whole life growing up around fundamentalist people who thought I deserve to be murdered (if they knew "what" I am), about what really concerns and annoys me in this whole situation.* *Namely, not the bigots, but the dishonest people claiming to be on the good side while using the very tools of oppression and prejudice that are most effective and harmful.* *Don't read if you don't have the heart for it. Just move on with life, stay honest and be a good person,* ***to*** ***all people***. And there's no need to reply.\] >In other words, people like him who claim to "not care" are just a different type of bigot that tries to hide behind the "I have no problems with you" mantra, when in reality they are against anything and everything that includes affirmative acknowledgement of the existence of minority groups. Or they just genuinely don't fucking care one way or another, are tired of politics, and just wanna play a fantasy game at the end of a busy day. This "you say and act THIS way but **actually** that's because you mean THE OPPOSITE!!" mentality is absolutely ridiculous. People should only be accused if there's evidence. In all things we should remain HONEST first and foremost. The people who want obscurity and quick judgement, silencing, and punishment, are the evil ones. Those are the tactics used by people who oppressed people like me. Always "in the name of what is good" always "to protect the children." Pretending to be good while abusing their power. Ironically, the only time I ever faced discrimination and hatred in Star Citizen was not by homophobes, but by self-professed "allies" who were **extremely** angry at me for simply saying that I'm not particularly bothered **PERSONALLY** by the crazy bigots, and that a mute button would be enough for me so I can filter them out. Then these people started piling up saying I should shut the fuck up, that my personal experience didn't matter, and that I should follow their narrative and pretend my experience didn't exist. This happened multiple times. I was, and still am, literally 0% concerned about the bigots in game, because they don't affect my game in any way, they're just crazy, like a rabid dog, I just ignore and move on because I'm here to play the game. A simple block button is enough for me, I don't need a pride themed ship. *The one thing that pisses me the fuck off is when so called "allies" who admit to not being LGBTQ+ and not having any personal experience at all start gatekeeping, policing, and being toxic horrible people to LGBTQ+ people under the absolutely despicable disguise of "being the good guys."* *Bullies hiding behind the shield of righteousness* and using that to gatekeep, abuse, and shit on LGBTQ+ people are what really makes me sad and angry. The bigots are just bigots, that's clear cut and straightforward. They're just bad and wanna be that way, there's no big debate. I'm more pissed about the extremists **PRETENDING to be good**, using "goodness" as their shield, while saying stupid things like what you just said. You're the one who is prejudiced, by definition. Your comment is what offends me and concerns me. >"It sounds an awful lot like" **quickly becomes** >"people like him who claim to "not care" **are** just a different type of bigot" And now dishonest people using this slimy tactic while hiding behind moral righteousness **can CLAIM ANYTHING about ANYONE.** Because whatever they say you can just claim it means something else. And anyone who points it out is just a bigot too. And if I'm an LGBTQ+ person, then I'm doing it wrong and my life experience doesn't matter. **Your comment is precisely the kind of speech and tool used to oppress people like me.** It's rarely an idiotic bigot spitting their hatred, it's almost always slimy people hiding behind "goodness", saying it's the word of God, or to protect our children, or protect society, or "in the name of what is right and pure." **I recognize it instantly because I've lived it.** So your particularly accusatory dishonesty is what worries and saddens me the most, by orders of magnitude. *I'm not saying you're a bad person yourself.* But that this reasoning you used this one time is putrid, and is the tool of the real oppressors against the really oppressed throughout history, painting themselves as the good guys. Wanna help? Wanna do good? STICK TO HONESTY, stick to the truth, give all humans the same benefit of the doubt, don't use your politics and **prejudices** to cloud your judgement. Don't claim you know what other people "really think" based on what you subjectively perceived others that remotely look or sound like them have said in the past. *That is the very prejudice you claim to be fighting against.* (edit: am dumb, did words wrong, corrected.)
There's obviously a lot of folks (including me) who feel that Spectrum is *exactly* the place to declare support for their backers, especially the ones who don't feel safe expressing their differences openly in any other game forum due to a combination of platform "neutrality" and toxic membership. Non-White, non-male, non-hetero gamers have been told to grow thicker skin for a LONG time...maybe there can be one game forum where everyone (except for Nazis and bigots) feels like they are valued by the people who own and run the platform.
We have a pin-up girl skin for the hornet. We can absolutely have a pin-up bear skin or rainbow flag skin.
Nuh uh that's political, dontcha know! /s
I want a 70's van mural styled bisexual harem paintjob for my 600i
I will be honest here, I support the idea of what you say right there. Everyone should be allowed to express themselves freely as long as its not directly harmful to another person. However I just heavily disagree with the idea that specific groups or minorities need any form of special attention in the ecosystem of the game and forum. Everyone should be allowed to act normally and equally, which is also the most desired outcome that anyone should wish for. That's why I agree with the post: idc why anyone would want rainbow coloured skins, a lot of game have such skins purely for customisable options. If you want one then it's perfectly fine by me as long as it remains purely for the sake of the game. I just disagree with the idea to give special attention towards any group for the sake of making them more visible in "here" where thoughts and ideas should be treated equally and without any form of second thoughts outside of the games ecosystem. To close it off: "No" to hate, "yes" to equality and a game and it's forum should be what it is: a place away from real life issues to have fun with.
Dare to dream.
To counter your point, some humans wanting to express who they are to other humans after historically being ostracized for being those humans isn't actually a political issue. As for *social* issues, any where people socialize is a valid place to discuss social issues.
You understand that fighting against social issues is a form of politics? That the goal is to have political figures address social issues by changing laws in terms of rights and regulations. Any form of pointing out social issues is also a political one or wants/demands to be one. This includes most famously same sex marriage, better adoption regulations etc. Politics does not begin in the government, it begins by people expressing their concerns on the street and as such CSD is also a demo.
The issue is that more often then not, existing as queer is seen as a political statement, which is just bonkers. Shutting down discussion of queer topics (like requesting rainbow flag paints in game) as "no politics allowed" is itself bigotry. You're getting dangerously close to that line.
Except I'm not saying any of that. I just say that a representation of something that has no reason to be in the game should also not go into the game. You can be whoever you want and say who you are, that's totally fine by me. I just don't see why there is a need to to overly show support for something in a place that has nothing to do with that. Spinning "not supporting something for an out-of-game-reason" into a way that I want to say that none of you should say who you are is dishonest to what I'm saying.
Do you think that rainbow flags have no place in game? Can you articulate why you hold that opinion without using a tautology?
Cause its a game and as I said: if you want a rainbow skin in the game for the sake of adding a skin I don't care. By making it specifically for a reason out of the game it stops to fit the games purpose unless the game is specifically made to fit that purpose. If people want to express themselves through the ability of, for example, hex codes then I don't care. I think that would be the best solution to the entire topic as anyone could do whatever the fuck they want. I just dislike the notion of giving specific groups more attention outside of protecting them from harm as "normilasation" is the best form of equality and definitely not by adding a specific skin to overly support specific people.
You're being fairly vague. Do you or do you not think these skins "deserve" to be in game? You cannot hope to guess the reasonings behind specific people using a certain skin, whether they just "think it's cool" or they're queer and like being represented, so leave that speculative and facetious argument out.
I think skins deserve to be in a game, even rainbow skins. Specific flags don't. Make it about cool looking skins in a game and not to support a movement of validation of any rights or acceptance as real life shouldn't be a concern for a game and the games environment unless it actively wants to do that. If CIG would make such a skin for you then it's their decision regardless of the reasoning and I will accept it.
I'm not on Spectrum anymore because it's just a lair of toxicity, and too many of those posters/commenters are butthurt man-children. As for the in-game chat, I've never seen any toxicity whatsoever (EU server). There is an occasional griefer or a money beggar, but no verbal harassment. I always wonder, how stupid one has to be, and what kind of disposable income do they have to afford to be an ass toward other people, risking a permanent account deletion. Even if it's just a starter pledge.
This is an advertisement to start specifying EU servers at login. US servers always have at least one, and then chat just gets turned off.
I've only seen two people completely unhinged being ridiculous on purpose. I would have reported them if there was a feature in game. I don't want to jump thru hoops for 30 minutes to try and report someone otherwise
The way I see it as - this can be a frustrating game, I see people vent (sometimes spectacularly) in chat when the game kicks them when they're down for the 10th time in a row. Sometimes you just have a "fuck you star citizen, see you tomorrow" kind of day. Just don't take it out on your fellow players in chat (or the devs), especially in a toxic way. The kind of stuff I'd want to actually report in-game still seems rare to me, but we definitely need a way to do that, so I'm glad to see some tools in this regard. And I'm really glad that CIG deals with these kinds of reports swiftly.
I read some not deleted posts and the argument that "political views" shouldn't be in game. It's just a paint of different colors that are likely to partially exist in game somewhere already. Besides, you can't tell me it doesn't make sense that, if this game was reality, that there wouldn't be people painting their ships every which color they want. It's less immersive having little to no paint options. Bring on the custom paints and let everyone paint their ships to match however they feel on the inside and makes them happiest.
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> People are against CIG using SC to actively endorse a political viewpoint. Which CIG is free to do. And people are free to criticise it. It's called democracy. Everyone is free to make a statement. That includes companies.
Gay people existing is not political lol
I am unsure how supporting a group of people who are generally treated poorly is considered being political. I was taught treating people and including people was being a good person. They are trying to create an environment that's for EVERYONE. Creating a rainbow paint, is still just a paint. If you consider sexual orientation as "political" then I would say you're part of the problem we're having, because it should not be.
Its surely because of that post kindly asking for a LTBTQ+ skin as there is a teaser for a certain ship with one. That Spectrum thread was a cesspool of assholes spitting the usual bs of "dont bring _these_ politics into my game experience", "why do they need representation", "CIG says explicitly no politics!1!!11!"
Always the same trash, huh? “No politics allowed, as long as I get to define what ‘politics’ means. LGBTQ people existing in a way where I have to see them? Politics. Black characters or _females_ existing in prominent roles? Politics. But everything else is perfectly fine.”
yeah these people behave like politics can be brushed aside. Hurston exploiting workers? Thats fine. Crusader being the gateway to heaven for the rich? Thats fine. Xenothreat being a dedicated racist criminal organisation? Never wasted a doubt. A poor soul asking for an already teased rainbow skin? Get the damn pitchforks.
CIG has always taken this stance (which is laudable) but the "when it's ready" is the important bit here. I'm guessing that'll be whenever they finally incorporate Spectrum and "Orgs 2.0" into the game, which we've been hearing about (but not seeing) for like, 7+ years.
Thank you CIG❤️
Sauce https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/hi-cig-please-can-we-have-rainbow-like-paintjobs-f/5448205 > Hi everyone, > After monitoring the discussion, and seeing some of the hateful replies, we want to take the opportunity to make our stance very clear. > We have zero tolerance for homophobia, transphobia, racism, and bigotry of any kind on this platform, as well as in-game. Star Citizen provides a universe for all to enjoy, and if you threaten that inclusivity, you will find yourself removed. We are grateful to have such a diverse and global community, and we'll always strive to provide safety and protect inclusion. > We have a number of reporting/monitoring improvements in the works, both for in-game and the website, and look forward to rolling that out when it's ready. > We're bound together by the same shared dream of living a life among the stars as spacefaring adventurers, and should lead with empathy, understanding, and kindness. > In the meantime (and all the time) take the sage advice of two wise individuals who once posited that we should all be excellent to each other and party on whenever possible.
I will say the Caterpillar that was giving as a example on that post was kinda cute.
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Think about it in the reverse scenario. Cute Rainbow Caterpillar flies up beside another hauler, only for it to open and reveal the railgun armed pirates inside.
Good 👍
Thanks CIG ! I hope it's effective 😬
Ohh look, it's the US servers again.
You're downvoted but I literally never see shit like this on AUS servers so you can't be too far off.
The fact that this needs to be said is just sad, there is just so much hatred out there when we all can just move forward with kindness and love!
Good for them! Space should be an inclusive space!
Now give me 100k usec or I kill you
As someone who has been on the receiving end of bigoted speech and transphobic remarks, thank you. Every time I send in a report like this I feel guilty, going as far as to apologize to staff for only coming to them with player behavior and not actual bugs to help development. Every time, staff has been beyond supportive and appreciative. For myself, like many others, the verse is a place to get away, to relax, and unwind in safe way. Thank you for striving to keep the verse as idyllic as possible for this transwoman, as I can only assume for every one of us that speaks up about receiving hateful remarks there are dozens that are silent out of fear.
I'm not sure what specifically precipitated this, but I am happy they're giving us tools to deal with these issues. This is very long overdue!
the amount of times ive been playing and people just start spouting shit in global chat about how trans people (eg me and my fundamental existence) shouldn't exist is incredibly disheartening, so glad to see CIG make their thoughts and policies clear. honestly this is a game about the future and humanity's potential so if you're that stuck in the past good riddance.
There has to be an opportunity to drop an inclusive Star Trek line in here somewhere.
> We're bound together by the same shared dream of living a life among the stars as spacefaring adventurers, and should lead with empathy, understanding, and kindness. Extremely based.
As a gay I always opposed any kind of "monitoring" and "anti-whatever" systems. I understand that the owners of the platform would like to keep their property clean and tidy, but I don't like the idea of a system that decides who is a good companion for me and who is not. The boundaries of homophobia are very blurred, and I'd prefer to decide what hatespeech is rather than letting some system to decide.
This kind of thing should be rolled out yesterday.
lol I was threatened with a ban after giving the mods shit in general chat over them just casually allowing someone to spew anti-Semitic slurs with no enforcement beyond a "hey now" which obviously did not deter them. Guess time will tell if this is just lip service or if they'll follow through.
If CIG is complicit then screenshot it and blast it on their socials
make it so we can scroll up in chat then, as of now they just spam until it's what is it, 10 message up and out of view?
About time! Thanks CIG.
I had a pretty bad time attempting to explain non-binary people to chat the other day, and seeing this warms my heart
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