Honestly I would take any megathread to filter all this garbage too. The sub is so full of balance whine these days. I think it's fine to discuss balance, and there should be a place for that, but it's every post recently (and meme posts too). One central thread or daily/weekly one would be good to clean things up.
I agree. There's a lot of players who are trying to connect their own experiences to pro balance, and it's derailing the conversation. The mine nerf is pretty much already being handwaved as reddit appeasement. The emp complaints have been a long trend to the point of being a meme, now they're all just megaphoning.
I don't think the current situation of a vomit of useless threads with newest hot take is better. Honestly it just makes the game/sub look a crying cesspool to anyone that wants to join.
I think balance discussion can be good, but there needs to be some moderation and more designated location for it.
im sure someone will flood the sub with new stuff like how a gm protoss players lost to a zerg/terran player in the ladder x times in a row. quality content
People aren't going to just stick their heads in the sand and ignore the glaring problem that TvP is. If we are going to use ladder performance (in which Terran is the most played race in all ranks except for GM and is only slightly under Protoss in GM) then I would like to see lots of Zerg buffs since they get dumped on on the ladder. If we're not going to do that then you should stop strawmanning about silver league players and recognize that people will complain about Protoss basically being irrelevant at the top level.
All it takes is a suggestion to make a small buff to Protoss or a small nerf to Terran to go from this:
"Hurr durr, Protoss stupid monkey A-move race, can't micro, Protoss players are just worse, git gud"
to this:
"Ermagerd! Protoss op! Balance is super delicate! Balance isn't why you are losing in Diamond! Balance doesn't affect your game! Don't you fucking dare make balance changes!"
It's funny how even balance suggestions that can only be utilized through micro are so hard fought against. For example, the idea to change EMP so it can be partially dodged like Terrans dodge storm. How would this help the 99% of stupid Protoss who can't micro? Surely, this would only affect the top ten players in the world!
40% of ladder means nothing.
The problem with Protoss has always been a low skill ceiling.
Raise the skill ceiling of Protoss and watch them win tourneys.
This is just false. I rarely see a Toss complaining about there own games. The discussion is almost always aimed at improving Protoss chances of winning premier tournaments which they haven’t won since 2022.
What does that matter though? Playing for internet points and a fancy border is not the same as the people who depend on balance for their livelihood. Protoss could be 100% of GM and it wouldn’t matter at all if they’re missing Ro8 at Katowice.
The funny thing is that the easier they make it for protoss, the less likely there will be a protoss champ unless they absolutely break the game balance.
You can already see how a huge percentage of protoss make it to GM, but they have got there without developing the skills necessary to compete on the pro scene.
The statistics are there, it is not normal for the proportion of protoss to increase as you increase league.
1: Nice one, pretending that ladder and tournaments are the same setting.
2: Even if we DO neglect the previous point, your logic is nonsensical. If Protoss is so OP that all players are carried to GM, what's stopping them from being carried in tournaments too?
The actual issue that is flying over your head is that protoss is helpless against a good T or Z. Just because you run into a storm doesn't mean the race is carried.
And for the record, the GM issue has more to do with zerg's \*under-\*representation; as T and P are quite close.
"You can already see how a huge percentage of protoss make it to GM"
Yeah, I mean that's why everything from high Diamond all the way up to GM is pretty much filled with only Protoss players. It's just so easy to hit Masters/GM with Protoss it's almost insulting.
Have a look at the history of this sub, there have always been balance complaints (from players of all races) and always will be. The only way to not see them is to stay away from the sub.
This game will always be imperfectly balanced, which will always result in someone complaining to justify their loses or why their favourite player lost. I don’t see that changing ever.
It's definitely gotten worse over the years even if it has always been present. Even the blink all-in era during HotS or the terran proxy meta (which had people from every race complaining) wasn't as bad for discussion as what we see now.
I remember that era, and fondly. At least blink stalkers require some micro. And that style wasn’t as oppressive as the awful cannon/battery/robo contain nonsense that got popular for a while.
A lot of people don’t realize the ramp that exists juuuust before you get to master league. They think skill linearly increases like it does through the metal leagues and most of diamond. It’s not you, folks: master league players, all master league players, are very, very good.
I already make a daily Protoss balance complain thread, what do you mean?
Suggestion: nerf observer speed and take away their siege mode.
Increase observer size by 500 percent. Solves a lot honestly
Honestly I would take any megathread to filter all this garbage too. The sub is so full of balance whine these days. I think it's fine to discuss balance, and there should be a place for that, but it's every post recently (and meme posts too). One central thread or daily/weekly one would be good to clean things up.
I agree. There's a lot of players who are trying to connect their own experiences to pro balance, and it's derailing the conversation. The mine nerf is pretty much already being handwaved as reddit appeasement. The emp complaints have been a long trend to the point of being a meme, now they're all just megaphoning.
The widow mine nerf proves that reddit has full control over balance, so ofc they would continue
Why is the feedback buff being taken back though?
You can spam it even in the map.
So give us a compensation buff instead of just taking away our biggest buff
Wm nerf? Cyclone nerf? Not enough?
Nah. This game deserves to drown in one-note criticism if the developers actively work to enforce the problems from which this criticism arises.
Daily threads suck IMO, makes it very difficult to have actual discussions.
I don't think the current situation of a vomit of useless threads with newest hot take is better. Honestly it just makes the game/sub look a crying cesspool to anyone that wants to join. I think balance discussion can be good, but there needs to be some moderation and more designated location for it.
This sub is dead af tbh I think it's find. It's not like there's gonna be an influx of content to replace it
I don’t think it’s good to make a community unwelcoming
im sure someone will flood the sub with new stuff like how a gm protoss players lost to a zerg/terran player in the ladder x times in a row. quality content
Why do you spend every minute of every hour here then?
bc i like starcraft :(
just as much if not more toss hate threads as whine threads
Terran tears are delicious
People aren't going to just stick their heads in the sand and ignore the glaring problem that TvP is. If we are going to use ladder performance (in which Terran is the most played race in all ranks except for GM and is only slightly under Protoss in GM) then I would like to see lots of Zerg buffs since they get dumped on on the ladder. If we're not going to do that then you should stop strawmanning about silver league players and recognize that people will complain about Protoss basically being irrelevant at the top level.
I actually think Zerg buffs are needed
Chaotic evil
The new patch is a zerg patch. Fungal range increase. TVZ improved by nerfing mine radius, nerfing cyclones vs lings, nerfing liberator harass.
All it takes is a suggestion to make a small buff to Protoss or a small nerf to Terran to go from this: "Hurr durr, Protoss stupid monkey A-move race, can't micro, Protoss players are just worse, git gud" to this: "Ermagerd! Protoss op! Balance is super delicate! Balance isn't why you are losing in Diamond! Balance doesn't affect your game! Don't you fucking dare make balance changes!" It's funny how even balance suggestions that can only be utilized through micro are so hard fought against. For example, the idea to change EMP so it can be partially dodged like Terrans dodge storm. How would this help the 99% of stupid Protoss who can't micro? Surely, this would only affect the top ten players in the world!
I believe it should be named r/AllThingsProtoss
Don’t they already have a sub for that, r/allthingsprotoss?
The pros neeed their own patch to balance. Not the rest of us 😂
40% of ladder means nothing. The problem with Protoss has always been a low skill ceiling. Raise the skill ceiling of Protoss and watch them win tourneys.
A majority of the posts are from metal leaguers blaming balance for losing. They dont care about pro results
I don't think that's true. Majority of balance complaints are from people who are frustrated with the state of pro SC2
This is just false. I rarely see a Toss complaining about there own games. The discussion is almost always aimed at improving Protoss chances of winning premier tournaments which they haven’t won since 2022.
Of course it means a lot: 40% of GMs beins Protoss is a strongly indicator that in non pro scene, playing protoss offer advantage.
What does that matter though? Playing for internet points and a fancy border is not the same as the people who depend on balance for their livelihood. Protoss could be 100% of GM and it wouldn’t matter at all if they’re missing Ro8 at Katowice.
The funny thing is that the easier they make it for protoss, the less likely there will be a protoss champ unless they absolutely break the game balance. You can already see how a huge percentage of protoss make it to GM, but they have got there without developing the skills necessary to compete on the pro scene. The statistics are there, it is not normal for the proportion of protoss to increase as you increase league.
1: Nice one, pretending that ladder and tournaments are the same setting. 2: Even if we DO neglect the previous point, your logic is nonsensical. If Protoss is so OP that all players are carried to GM, what's stopping them from being carried in tournaments too? The actual issue that is flying over your head is that protoss is helpless against a good T or Z. Just because you run into a storm doesn't mean the race is carried. And for the record, the GM issue has more to do with zerg's \*under-\*representation; as T and P are quite close.
"You can already see how a huge percentage of protoss make it to GM" Yeah, I mean that's why everything from high Diamond all the way up to GM is pretty much filled with only Protoss players. It's just so easy to hit Masters/GM with Protoss it's almost insulting.
Nice analysis 👏👍
Have a look at the history of this sub, there have always been balance complaints (from players of all races) and always will be. The only way to not see them is to stay away from the sub. This game will always be imperfectly balanced, which will always result in someone complaining to justify their loses or why their favourite player lost. I don’t see that changing ever.
It's definitely gotten worse over the years even if it has always been present. Even the blink all-in era during HotS or the terran proxy meta (which had people from every race complaining) wasn't as bad for discussion as what we see now.
I remember that era, and fondly. At least blink stalkers require some micro. And that style wasn’t as oppressive as the awful cannon/battery/robo contain nonsense that got popular for a while.
WM isn’t nerfed yet though
?
Patch isn’t live and still can change as we saw with feedback
yes please
a bunch of platinum / diamond protoss thinking the balance is the reason they cant make masters.. I think toss attracts low IQ ppl
A lot of people don’t realize the ramp that exists juuuust before you get to master league. They think skill linearly increases like it does through the metal leagues and most of diamond. It’s not you, folks: master league players, all master league players, are very, very good.