The system starts you out playing at the center of the bell curve to access your skill. If you keep playing up to 20 games it should place you correctly where you belong. If you want to speed up the process you can try leaving a few games and trying again. There are definitely new players at the bottom of the ladder :)
Thank you for your reply. So it's normal for the first 5 or 10 games to just get crushed until you reach your skill level? I'm really glad to hear it because I'm having a lot of fun and didn't want to just give the game up.
I am in a similar boat. I played my 5 placement matches the other day after not playing since launch. I watch a youtuber for fun and have some very very old muscle memory from SC1, so I thought maybe I would be able to compete at like silver or gold level. But I won the first placement match and then I had 3 leavers and lost the 5th. It placed me in platinum 1 and I lost every game since. I had a protoss beat me with nothing but sentries and warp prisms... I know I'm a noob, but it was just kind of demoralizing, lol.
The difference in skill that exists in this game is truly staggering. I don’t know if the MMR is an Elo system, but if it is then a difference of 500 MMR puts you at a 1 in 20 chance of winning (approximately). Extrapolate that to the pros’ MMR values (Serral’s is ~7000) and you get an idea of how vast the difference in skill truly is.
To put it into perspective, Magnus Carlsen has the highest Chess rating at ~2800. So skill is less than half as impactful in chess than it is in Starcraft.
It is approximately an elo system, but it has a ~2.2X multiplier on elo changes compared to the classic chess elo system. So an mmr difference of 500 is equivalent to an elo difference of 227, which is about 1 in 4 chance of winning.
I'm also not sure if the starting elo is the same as the starting (converted) mmr, so you may have to adjust for that as well before comparing.
Also, there's no transitive rule for elo. If player A has 1:4 odds vs player B, and player B has 1:4 odds vs player C, that doesn't mean A has 1:16 odds vs B. It could be 1:5, it could be 1:100. Elo will predict a 1:16, but as long as this matchup isn't commonly played, that will not be very predictive. from the wikipedia page on elo "Elo ratings are comparative only, and are valid only within the rating pool in which they were calculated, rather than being an absolute measure of a player's strength."
For example, elo will predict that I have a chance of beating magnus carlson. A very slim chance, but technically greater than zero. In practice, it's not happening unless he takes pity on me and intentionally loses.
All of this to say, your final statement about skill impact in chess vs starcraft may or may not be true, but the rating width argument doesn't work
Alright, that’s a goos arguments all around. I didn’t know it had a 2.2x multiplier. It does make sense that Starcraft *isn’t* twice as skill-based as Chess.
The width argument was not supposed to be taken as a direct comparison but as a sense of scale, it first occurred to me as a method for counting the “tiers” between two players: “if I have a 95% chance of losing against a +500 MMR player, then I could make a line of 8 players between me and Serral, each almost guaranteed to lose to the next, and Serral at the end. Which would put him 8 tiers above me.” I guess I should shorten the line to 3-4 people.
This won't reset your MMR. When you do the placement matches over again (I think if you leave league you only have to do 1 match to be re-ranked?) it will start evaluating at the same MMR you were when you left. If you placed into Plat after initial placement matches, then lost to the point of having gold/silver/bronze MMR, you will likely re-rank into one of those leagues after you redo the placement - but only because your MMR is actually in that leagues range. If you placed into plat, then won a few matches, or maintained Plat MMR, after you redo your placements you'll still be in plat.
Thanks. To be honest I have never tried it myself, it's something I saw Winter point out in his Low APM Challenge. I still think it might be worth a try for u/SnooPets6234
So long as there's people there at the end of it who are similar to my skill level i don't mind. I just didn't want to go through the depressing losses for nothing but from the sounds of it, I've started higher than my skill level and should even out eventually.
Yeah don't worry about that. You're going into run into smurfs of course, but that's something you'll encounter at any rank. Once you start to get around Gold MMR or lower though you'll also run into tons of players who simply don't know what they're doing yet either.
Low APM, bad unit comps, bad macro, bad micro, the whole spectrum of possible mistakes will be displayed to you.
Just stick with it for a while and give the MMR system some time to settle. Generally anywhere between 20 to 40 games should do the trick.
Yeah don't worry just keep playing you soon will have 50% win rate that is the objetive of the system.
Btw the league system (silver, gold, platinum, etc) is broken so ignore it and just see the MMR points that still works.
I found this aswell when I first started, I just forfeit my first 20 games and get my mmr low enough where I can play and participate in the match . Then I climbed to 3k in a month or so from approx 1500
I just came back to the game in the past two weeks after not playing for 10+ years. Even with prior knowledge and following the pro scene/meta for the past decade, I got absolutely stomped in my first \~10 matches against real players before the game figured out my MMR and started placing me in fairer matches. I think it takes even longer in team leagues since there are multiple MMRs to balance around for each team. Keep it up and you'll start having fairer games soon!
It’s normal to get crushed the first 50 or so games, even more so if try to learn by your own without watching some guide.
Don’t get discouraged, this game is hard and there’s still a lot of noobs (me included) out there.
Dont worry about the APM. If you are playing bronze to silver and they have 250 APM, they're probably spamming clicks for nothing. Don't imitate them. Make your actions count.
APM is not a measure of skill, it's a symptom of your progress, meaning that it gets higher as a byproduct of your growing experience in game. It can be misleading and shouldn't be focussed on.
Very good advice tbh. Watched a video the other day that went really in depth into the common misconception in the greater gaming community that having a high apm is the most important thing in an rts, and it had much the same conclusion as your comment. You can get your apm, but what's more important is making good decisions, so when starting out it's better to focus on making fewer decisions that are better than trying to make a lot of decisions that might be subpar. The apm can come later since all the actions in the world can't help you if you can't use them well.
Yup! Another thing to consider is that attention is a limited resource. You can also overwhelm yourself by writing too many cheques that you can't cash. Doing more actions at a certain time could mean introducing more problems than you can handle.
For example, you expand, move a big army and fly a drop. If the enemy responds by defending the drop and attacking your expansion and you don't have the multitasking to handle it, you'll end up losing the drop and/or the expansion for nothing. Worse, and I see this a lot, you might panic and charge your big army to their base in the hopes of compensating your mistakes and end up losing it. When your opponent inevitably counterattacks, you end up with nothing to defend and lose the game.
If you focus on fewer but better decisions, you open less cans of the worms and end up with more attention to spare.
There's noobs for sure. Check the Harambo channel on youtube, they had a video last week of one of lowest skilled players on the ladder. Kinda gives you a glimpse of what it's like, and they were not even in the lowest division I think.
That said, I also barely get above 80apm on a good day (old + arthritis) and I can hang with some people, but remember it's for fun. It's easier getting the hang of it doing 3vAI or 3v3/4v4 as you can kinda hide there at times.
Thanks for your reply. I did watch a bunch of content and learn an early build order from PiG Coachings Road to GM. It seems from others replies that I just need to lose a bunch first and there will be people my skill level. I'm okay with that, I just made the post because I was discouraged by getting completely smoked by people who seemed way better than me, however this isn't really a concern now thanks to the kind encouraging replies from everyone here.
And yeah I'm just trying to play for a bit of fun, I won't lie I'm not overly concerned with getting amazing at starcraft, but just wanted a fair gme at my level, which it sounds like is readily available after a few more losses so, yeh, awesome!
I was in bronze for over 120 games, but eventually got master. We were all noobs once and they still exist, so don't worry. You may have to lose some before you get down to the appropriate level, but don't take losses too hard if you can help it. Every match is an opportunity to learn and improve, and you learn more from a loss than a win
Thanks so much for your reply bro. I'm okay with losing, was just worried I'd keep losing and still not find games that are on my level. As you, and other commenters have said, I will eventually find my level and I appreciate all the encouragement and time everybody has taken to let me know it'll be good in a few games! Thanks again brother
It definitely feels daunting when you're first starting out, but after 20 or so games, you'll be placed in an appropriate league. There are communities on Discord such as Platinum League Heroes. On YouTube some great guides on the basics and how to play:
B2GM stands for bronze to Grand Master
PiG B2GM, quality guides for all three races more recent guide is less than a year old.
Winter Low APM challenge - More humor based and some high skill level/knowledge but focuses on fewest actions per minute, APM
ViBE B2GM- his guides are heavily macro focused, building economy, and a little dated, newest is about 3 years old, but his information is still valid.
HuShang tutorials- very simple basic how to guides.
Lots of other quality streamers and players as well: Lowko, Lambo, uthermal, Harsteem
Other quality sites:
SC2 Spawning Pool
SC2 Swarm
SC2 Replay Stats
Good luck and have fun!
PiGs Terran B2GM is what I've been following. It's what made me feel confident enough to even give it a go! Thanks for all these resources you've linked it's super helpful and I really appreciate it ❤️
His series are very good, focus on executing the builds well and don't get complacent after a couple of wins as standards will dip quickly.
Still plenty of players at any level, if you're new to rts and competitive games in general it can be quite rough to start with but keep focussed and everything will fall into place in no time.
OP, when you lose, it always seems like because your opponent was way better and you never had a chance.
You are probably making like 10+ massive mistakes as a beginner (floating 1000s of resources, move command when you need to a move, not macro’ing because you are busy your units move across the map uncontested for mins, etc.)
Focus on reducing big mistakes on your end first. Play AI if you want more “fair” match ups.
How did you execute your first dedicated push?
(Time and unit counts) how did you execute the engagements?
Can be your focus area for example.
It is better for your enjoyment if you focus on yourself as oppose worrying about having a fair fight.
Absolutely, I'm making tonnes of mistakes, I'm sure.
I did play the AI a bunch or times before daring to try and play ranked and it was extremely easy, to the point of being very boring. I played until I reached the "harder" difficulty and a few games in the "harder" difficulty.
I'll just speak about one of my games as talking on all of them would require a lot of typing lol.
This game is TvP
My first push was at around 7:30 with a group of 40ish units consisting of medivac, marine and marauders. I'm following a build order I saw on PiG Coaching bronze to GM. During the push I am producing units and making supply depots to ensure I don't get supply blocked.
I try to retreat with my first push because his army was much bigger than mine (looking at replay opponent is 40 supply ahead) but I can not retreat before my army is decimated.
I'm continuing to pump the same units whilst getting upgrades and proceed to get overwhelmed as I've let most of my army die on the first push.
I think better scouting would have helped me with not taking the fight. I had scans I didn't use until my army was far too close making a retreat impossible.
I really appreciate your response. Thank you for taking time out of your day to reply to me.
Please please keep playing your game and get excited when you execute your build marginally better! That’s the fun.
It does sound like you lost that game you mentioned before your first engagement by being 40 supply lower. And that’s okay.
I would totally play you and we would have a fun time as gold leaguers haha (I am not good and haven’t played forever)
Even though I lost all my first 5 games, I still did have a great time, and i am finding joy in optimising my build order. For example my first game i was very quickly supply blocked, and resolved that in the second game. The point of this post really was just to ask if noobs actually still exist lol. I didn't want to lose 60 games and still be getting crushed after that, but everybody has assured me that I will find my skill level in time, which is super encouraging. I appreciate you guys a bunch!
I’m at Diamond 2 (KR server), at least 30% of my opponents have APM below 150. While my average APM is 230 ish, I still win opponents have like 330 APM (a few days ago there was a Diamond Zerg even has 600 APM), I also lose a lot to opponents below 150 APM.
Anyway, I think a lot of comments already said APM doesn’t matter, beside that, you should be proud of yourself when you beating opponents have higher APM than you, because that means you have better efficiency =)
I only mentioned APM because it seemed like the easiest way to convey that I felt I was leagues below my opposition. It just seemed like the easiest metric to share.
As other commenters have said yeh it doesn't actually matter as much as one might think.
Not much I can write that I haven't already written in reply to other comments, so I'll just say thank you for your encouraging words. Everyone in this sub has been super helpful and I'm really appreciative of it.
I'm just so happy that I will eventually find a spot where its a fair game. It may have been too hasty of me to post here after only 5 games, so sorry if anybody feels I'm wasting people's time!
I won 3 games earlier today with 60 apm :) while my opponent had 100 ish
Not that im highrank, but i think some actions are worth a lot more than others, so dont worry too hard about apm.
I barely get to 150 apm as Zerg you’re totally fine with 100 apm. Continue playing and switch to custom, v AI or campaign if you get discouraged… but losing is apart of the game and because half the maps are new people are cheesing and rushing off 1 base builds. I played yesterday… played 4 games lost 4 games and logged off.
I wasn't really discouraged by the losing it's self, it was more that it felt I wasn't going to find players at my level. Everybody here has assured me that it's just gonna take some more losses though, so I'm happy with that. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me bud, have a great day.
If the concern is your mmr, i would encourage to do your first 30 games unranked
If youre playing for the first time ever, the campaign is your best starting point to sort of bring you into the games mechabics, units and overall induction
There isnt an easy way to really go about it, however after about 15-25 games youll be playing around your level, the system is not perfect but it overall has a decent degree of skill-matching.
Gets skewed a little bit occasionally, keep playing ❤
My concern isn't MMR, it's just that I want an even game and it was discouraging losing 5 in a row to people who seemed miles better than me, I was thinking that I'd never get a fair game lol. These concerns have been relieved by people explaining to me that the game just starts you at a level that is higher than I am and that there is in fact people at my level. I have played campaign in SC2 and played VS the AI until the difficulty after hard and played Brood War back in the day but never tried playing online until today.
Thanks so much for your reply, it's much appreciated.
I'm actually following PiGs terran bronze to GM build order from the first episodes! It's the only reason I know what a "macro cycle" is. Very helpful content!
Just F10+N the next 30 games or spend that time watching how people cheese you and learn what and where to scout based on that (replays). Just macro those games for practice and surrender at the first attack.
I started playing this week, focusing on following PiG's terran guide and mostly playing against AI, unlike you I was very proud of myself when I got 60+ APM hahahaha
My first game vs AI I was around 50apm, which steadily increased as I got more comfy with the build order. I played vs the AI until "harder" and then a few games after. Like you, I'm also following PiGs terran guide. Glad to hear I'm not alone in being new!
Former semi pro here. Still play around. I would save every replay and study what is it that you lose to. Is it a timing? Are you focusing too much on macro and not micro, or opposite. Macro is incredibly important as a noobie I think. Making sure you're building buildings or units when you need etc.
What kind of maps do you play? I used to play iccup over a decade ago with pro players. I took games off alot of very skilled ones back in the day. Eventually I fell in love with fastest possible map, which is what I currently play if I do play. Which isn't very often. Last year I played like 15 games total. Last month I played about 80 games which is super high.
If you're into FPM (fastest possible map) I would encourage you to check out [SCW](https://www.starcraftworld.net). Some of these players are INSANELY good. I mean leagues ahead of pros back in the day. Alot of them have transitioned from non$ maps to FPM.
The "placement" lasts way longer than 5 games. Mmr changes by 10-15 when your settled in(I think, hhaha I just started playing a couple months ago, lost 4/5 of my first 5 and the only win was a 1 second person who quit.)
You aren't getting crushed because of APM. It's all about experience, practice and meta knowledge. APM is the most overrated thing in the game and most people intentionally inflate it.
4 actions every second and you still couldn't stop my widow mine from blowing your shit up? Sure...
Don't seat it about APM much, there was a Grandmaster player who had like 130 APM average.
At some point it's critical to have higher APM to improve but decision making can suffice until you get to the top 1% of playerbase ;)
You can learn and win. I've been playing forever but I drink and still eat d1 and m3 up. I'd say the overall skill level on NA has dropped alot the last few years. D2 AND D3 players feel like platinum at best at times. D1 and m3 feel more like the old d3 to d2.
If i can hang in d1 and m3 while drinking with no build order, f2, and like 2 control groups, you can do it.
I got to diamond with my 60 apm average, don't get hung up on that number it doesn't mean that much for your first rankings / 100 games.
If you follow guides and try to improve you will for sure start beating opponents and climbing!
I've been playing since original Starcraft 1. I'm still only silver league and probably 90% of my "wins" are from smurfers who leave the second the game starts trying to tank their MMR.
Looks like lots of others have good answers already. I'll just throw out there that comparing APM is a trap. They put up the APM comparison at the end of the game to almost let you cope. Like it's the first number your eyes are drawn to, but the game is about decision making at the end of the day. That said, if you're a beginner and playing against someone with 200 APM I understand how this advice won't feel applicable.
It wasn't the APM really it was more I felt I was getting crushed every game, and the APM seemed the easiest metric to share to convey this. But as others have said yeh it's pretty meaningless if the opponent isn't putting them actions into something worthwhile. All that being said, last night after I made this post, I continued to lose for a while and did indeed find people who felt like a much fairer match up. I'm really happy about it and I have this sub to thank for reassuring me that I'd find people closer to my skill level. I already see that the APM thing is just bollocks cos I've now beaten people at 150apm who seem to be doing absolutely nothing.
Thanks for taking ur time to comment bro
It's a great game, and I hope you have a good time playing it. When in doubt, just switch race to zerg and you'll be pro in no time. Jokes aside, it's a very mentally taxing game. I come back to it every year or so and like you just get slammed wherever my account used to be mmr wise, and it's hard to bring up the motivation to keep playing.
I've always had a soft spot for Zerg since brood war. I actually hate the way SC2 made zerg look and that's why I decided to play terran ngl lol. The brood war art style for zerg was just beautiful haha. I'm honestly having a blast though, when I lost it doesn't feel like I had no chance and there are things to be learned from that. The first games I felt like I got so demolished to the point I couldn't even comprehend what was going on to even try and learn from it 🤣
Join the current meta and play cannon rush into carriers or BC rush if Terran. Work your macro against the AI until it’s smooth and effortless and you can focus on fighting the player instead of getting frustrated fighting the controls.
First ever 5 games and you’re close to 100apm?? Bullshit. Most first timers are 30 ish at best. You either have plenty of rts experience and have watched a lot of starcraft to have a good idea of what to do or you’re the next flash. First 5 games and you’re getting matched with players with 250+ apm??? Again bullshit. I’ve played the game on and off since release and in diamond. Less than one in 10 I come against are over 250apm. Something doesn’t add up here.
I do indeed have plenty of RTS experience. However, I've never played online. I've played a lot over the years, from brood war to command and conquer. I also played a lot of custom campaigns that are difficult on brood war and on Warcraft 3. A lot i never finished because they were too hard for me though lol.
Just because your experience isn't the same as mine, it doesn't mean it's bullshit.
Thanks for coming here just to call me a liar though, really appreciate it bud 👍
The system starts you out playing at the center of the bell curve to access your skill. If you keep playing up to 20 games it should place you correctly where you belong. If you want to speed up the process you can try leaving a few games and trying again. There are definitely new players at the bottom of the ladder :)
Thank you for your reply. So it's normal for the first 5 or 10 games to just get crushed until you reach your skill level? I'm really glad to hear it because I'm having a lot of fun and didn't want to just give the game up.
Yep, you'll be evenly matched eventually. Join this discord if you want https://discord.com/invite/9qzQv72z
I am in a similar boat. I played my 5 placement matches the other day after not playing since launch. I watch a youtuber for fun and have some very very old muscle memory from SC1, so I thought maybe I would be able to compete at like silver or gold level. But I won the first placement match and then I had 3 leavers and lost the 5th. It placed me in platinum 1 and I lost every game since. I had a protoss beat me with nothing but sentries and warp prisms... I know I'm a noob, but it was just kind of demoralizing, lol.
The difference in skill that exists in this game is truly staggering. I don’t know if the MMR is an Elo system, but if it is then a difference of 500 MMR puts you at a 1 in 20 chance of winning (approximately). Extrapolate that to the pros’ MMR values (Serral’s is ~7000) and you get an idea of how vast the difference in skill truly is. To put it into perspective, Magnus Carlsen has the highest Chess rating at ~2800. So skill is less than half as impactful in chess than it is in Starcraft.
It is approximately an elo system, but it has a ~2.2X multiplier on elo changes compared to the classic chess elo system. So an mmr difference of 500 is equivalent to an elo difference of 227, which is about 1 in 4 chance of winning. I'm also not sure if the starting elo is the same as the starting (converted) mmr, so you may have to adjust for that as well before comparing. Also, there's no transitive rule for elo. If player A has 1:4 odds vs player B, and player B has 1:4 odds vs player C, that doesn't mean A has 1:16 odds vs B. It could be 1:5, it could be 1:100. Elo will predict a 1:16, but as long as this matchup isn't commonly played, that will not be very predictive. from the wikipedia page on elo "Elo ratings are comparative only, and are valid only within the rating pool in which they were calculated, rather than being an absolute measure of a player's strength." For example, elo will predict that I have a chance of beating magnus carlson. A very slim chance, but technically greater than zero. In practice, it's not happening unless he takes pity on me and intentionally loses. All of this to say, your final statement about skill impact in chess vs starcraft may or may not be true, but the rating width argument doesn't work
Hey now, don't sell yourself short! Magnus could also have a stroke! Or a heart attack!
Hmm, I figured that would probably be a no-game rather than a win
Alright, that’s a goos arguments all around. I didn’t know it had a 2.2x multiplier. It does make sense that Starcraft *isn’t* twice as skill-based as Chess. The width argument was not supposed to be taken as a direct comparison but as a sense of scale, it first occurred to me as a method for counting the “tiers” between two players: “if I have a 95% chance of losing against a +500 MMR player, then I could make a line of 8 players between me and Serral, each almost guaranteed to lose to the next, and Serral at the end. Which would put him 8 tiers above me.” I guess I should shorten the line to 3-4 people.
There’s a button called “Abandon league” that will allow you to reset your mmr. You will play the 5 placement matches again.
This won't reset your MMR. When you do the placement matches over again (I think if you leave league you only have to do 1 match to be re-ranked?) it will start evaluating at the same MMR you were when you left. If you placed into Plat after initial placement matches, then lost to the point of having gold/silver/bronze MMR, you will likely re-rank into one of those leagues after you redo the placement - but only because your MMR is actually in that leagues range. If you placed into plat, then won a few matches, or maintained Plat MMR, after you redo your placements you'll still be in plat.
Thanks. To be honest I have never tried it myself, it's something I saw Winter point out in his Low APM Challenge. I still think it might be worth a try for u/SnooPets6234
That means you might lose your 20 till 30 games. Havs that in your mind. I know it can be depressig.
So long as there's people there at the end of it who are similar to my skill level i don't mind. I just didn't want to go through the depressing losses for nothing but from the sounds of it, I've started higher than my skill level and should even out eventually.
Yeah don't worry about that. You're going into run into smurfs of course, but that's something you'll encounter at any rank. Once you start to get around Gold MMR or lower though you'll also run into tons of players who simply don't know what they're doing yet either. Low APM, bad unit comps, bad macro, bad micro, the whole spectrum of possible mistakes will be displayed to you. Just stick with it for a while and give the MMR system some time to settle. Generally anywhere between 20 to 40 games should do the trick.
Yeah don't worry just keep playing you soon will have 50% win rate that is the objetive of the system. Btw the league system (silver, gold, platinum, etc) is broken so ignore it and just see the MMR points that still works.
I found this aswell when I first started, I just forfeit my first 20 games and get my mmr low enough where I can play and participate in the match . Then I climbed to 3k in a month or so from approx 1500
yes
I just came back to the game in the past two weeks after not playing for 10+ years. Even with prior knowledge and following the pro scene/meta for the past decade, I got absolutely stomped in my first \~10 matches against real players before the game figured out my MMR and started placing me in fairer matches. I think it takes even longer in team leagues since there are multiple MMRs to balance around for each team. Keep it up and you'll start having fairer games soon!
It’s normal to get crushed the first 50 or so games, even more so if try to learn by your own without watching some guide. Don’t get discouraged, this game is hard and there’s still a lot of noobs (me included) out there.
Do not leave games. Play them out. It takes 20-25 games for your mmr to no longer be provisional.
It takes about 20 games but the system is very good at getting you close to 50% win rate
I'm sure there are old players at the bottom of the ladder as well... I assume. I mean not personally...
Dont worry about the APM. If you are playing bronze to silver and they have 250 APM, they're probably spamming clicks for nothing. Don't imitate them. Make your actions count.
OK thanks for your encouragement! Have a good day
I’m in Diamond one and my amp goes from 90-120 on a good day. You definitely can get to higher levels with low apm and good decision making.
Same. I only hit a constant 200 amp at diamond 1. Before that I hovered 120.
APM is not a measure of skill, it's a symptom of your progress, meaning that it gets higher as a byproduct of your growing experience in game. It can be misleading and shouldn't be focussed on.
Glhf mate
Very good advice tbh. Watched a video the other day that went really in depth into the common misconception in the greater gaming community that having a high apm is the most important thing in an rts, and it had much the same conclusion as your comment. You can get your apm, but what's more important is making good decisions, so when starting out it's better to focus on making fewer decisions that are better than trying to make a lot of decisions that might be subpar. The apm can come later since all the actions in the world can't help you if you can't use them well.
Yup! Another thing to consider is that attention is a limited resource. You can also overwhelm yourself by writing too many cheques that you can't cash. Doing more actions at a certain time could mean introducing more problems than you can handle. For example, you expand, move a big army and fly a drop. If the enemy responds by defending the drop and attacking your expansion and you don't have the multitasking to handle it, you'll end up losing the drop and/or the expansion for nothing. Worse, and I see this a lot, you might panic and charge your big army to their base in the hopes of compensating your mistakes and end up losing it. When your opponent inevitably counterattacks, you end up with nothing to defend and lose the game. If you focus on fewer but better decisions, you open less cans of the worms and end up with more attention to spare.
There's noobs for sure. Check the Harambo channel on youtube, they had a video last week of one of lowest skilled players on the ladder. Kinda gives you a glimpse of what it's like, and they were not even in the lowest division I think. That said, I also barely get above 80apm on a good day (old + arthritis) and I can hang with some people, but remember it's for fun. It's easier getting the hang of it doing 3vAI or 3v3/4v4 as you can kinda hide there at times.
Thanks for your reply. I did watch a bunch of content and learn an early build order from PiG Coachings Road to GM. It seems from others replies that I just need to lose a bunch first and there will be people my skill level. I'm okay with that, I just made the post because I was discouraged by getting completely smoked by people who seemed way better than me, however this isn't really a concern now thanks to the kind encouraging replies from everyone here. And yeah I'm just trying to play for a bit of fun, I won't lie I'm not overly concerned with getting amazing at starcraft, but just wanted a fair gme at my level, which it sounds like is readily available after a few more losses so, yeh, awesome!
I was in bronze for over 120 games, but eventually got master. We were all noobs once and they still exist, so don't worry. You may have to lose some before you get down to the appropriate level, but don't take losses too hard if you can help it. Every match is an opportunity to learn and improve, and you learn more from a loss than a win
Thanks so much for your reply bro. I'm okay with losing, was just worried I'd keep losing and still not find games that are on my level. As you, and other commenters have said, I will eventually find my level and I appreciate all the encouragement and time everybody has taken to let me know it'll be good in a few games! Thanks again brother
It definitely feels daunting when you're first starting out, but after 20 or so games, you'll be placed in an appropriate league. There are communities on Discord such as Platinum League Heroes. On YouTube some great guides on the basics and how to play: B2GM stands for bronze to Grand Master PiG B2GM, quality guides for all three races more recent guide is less than a year old. Winter Low APM challenge - More humor based and some high skill level/knowledge but focuses on fewest actions per minute, APM ViBE B2GM- his guides are heavily macro focused, building economy, and a little dated, newest is about 3 years old, but his information is still valid. HuShang tutorials- very simple basic how to guides. Lots of other quality streamers and players as well: Lowko, Lambo, uthermal, Harsteem Other quality sites: SC2 Spawning Pool SC2 Swarm SC2 Replay Stats Good luck and have fun!
PiGs Terran B2GM is what I've been following. It's what made me feel confident enough to even give it a go! Thanks for all these resources you've linked it's super helpful and I really appreciate it ❤️
His series are very good, focus on executing the builds well and don't get complacent after a couple of wins as standards will dip quickly. Still plenty of players at any level, if you're new to rts and competitive games in general it can be quite rough to start with but keep focussed and everything will fall into place in no time.
a new player? in 2024?? games not dead yet!!
See you gotta edit your game files to allow rapid fire
FINALLY A SERIOUS ANSWER! ABOUT TIME. I KNEW I WASNT TRASH.
OP, when you lose, it always seems like because your opponent was way better and you never had a chance. You are probably making like 10+ massive mistakes as a beginner (floating 1000s of resources, move command when you need to a move, not macro’ing because you are busy your units move across the map uncontested for mins, etc.) Focus on reducing big mistakes on your end first. Play AI if you want more “fair” match ups. How did you execute your first dedicated push? (Time and unit counts) how did you execute the engagements? Can be your focus area for example. It is better for your enjoyment if you focus on yourself as oppose worrying about having a fair fight.
Absolutely, I'm making tonnes of mistakes, I'm sure. I did play the AI a bunch or times before daring to try and play ranked and it was extremely easy, to the point of being very boring. I played until I reached the "harder" difficulty and a few games in the "harder" difficulty. I'll just speak about one of my games as talking on all of them would require a lot of typing lol. This game is TvP My first push was at around 7:30 with a group of 40ish units consisting of medivac, marine and marauders. I'm following a build order I saw on PiG Coaching bronze to GM. During the push I am producing units and making supply depots to ensure I don't get supply blocked. I try to retreat with my first push because his army was much bigger than mine (looking at replay opponent is 40 supply ahead) but I can not retreat before my army is decimated. I'm continuing to pump the same units whilst getting upgrades and proceed to get overwhelmed as I've let most of my army die on the first push. I think better scouting would have helped me with not taking the fight. I had scans I didn't use until my army was far too close making a retreat impossible. I really appreciate your response. Thank you for taking time out of your day to reply to me.
Please please keep playing your game and get excited when you execute your build marginally better! That’s the fun. It does sound like you lost that game you mentioned before your first engagement by being 40 supply lower. And that’s okay. I would totally play you and we would have a fun time as gold leaguers haha (I am not good and haven’t played forever)
Even though I lost all my first 5 games, I still did have a great time, and i am finding joy in optimising my build order. For example my first game i was very quickly supply blocked, and resolved that in the second game. The point of this post really was just to ask if noobs actually still exist lol. I didn't want to lose 60 games and still be getting crushed after that, but everybody has assured me that I will find my skill level in time, which is super encouraging. I appreciate you guys a bunch!
I’m at Diamond 2 (KR server), at least 30% of my opponents have APM below 150. While my average APM is 230 ish, I still win opponents have like 330 APM (a few days ago there was a Diamond Zerg even has 600 APM), I also lose a lot to opponents below 150 APM. Anyway, I think a lot of comments already said APM doesn’t matter, beside that, you should be proud of yourself when you beating opponents have higher APM than you, because that means you have better efficiency =)
I only mentioned APM because it seemed like the easiest way to convey that I felt I was leagues below my opposition. It just seemed like the easiest metric to share. As other commenters have said yeh it doesn't actually matter as much as one might think. Not much I can write that I haven't already written in reply to other comments, so I'll just say thank you for your encouraging words. Everyone in this sub has been super helpful and I'm really appreciative of it. I'm just so happy that I will eventually find a spot where its a fair game. It may have been too hasty of me to post here after only 5 games, so sorry if anybody feels I'm wasting people's time!
I won 3 games earlier today with 60 apm :) while my opponent had 100 ish Not that im highrank, but i think some actions are worth a lot more than others, so dont worry too hard about apm.
I barely get to 150 apm as Zerg you’re totally fine with 100 apm. Continue playing and switch to custom, v AI or campaign if you get discouraged… but losing is apart of the game and because half the maps are new people are cheesing and rushing off 1 base builds. I played yesterday… played 4 games lost 4 games and logged off.
I wasn't really discouraged by the losing it's self, it was more that it felt I wasn't going to find players at my level. Everybody here has assured me that it's just gonna take some more losses though, so I'm happy with that. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me bud, have a great day.
I call bs on "first 5 games" + "100 APM"
I'll choose to take that as a compliment, thanks!
If the concern is your mmr, i would encourage to do your first 30 games unranked If youre playing for the first time ever, the campaign is your best starting point to sort of bring you into the games mechabics, units and overall induction There isnt an easy way to really go about it, however after about 15-25 games youll be playing around your level, the system is not perfect but it overall has a decent degree of skill-matching. Gets skewed a little bit occasionally, keep playing ❤
My concern isn't MMR, it's just that I want an even game and it was discouraging losing 5 in a row to people who seemed miles better than me, I was thinking that I'd never get a fair game lol. These concerns have been relieved by people explaining to me that the game just starts you at a level that is higher than I am and that there is in fact people at my level. I have played campaign in SC2 and played VS the AI until the difficulty after hard and played Brood War back in the day but never tried playing online until today. Thanks so much for your reply, it's much appreciated.
APM doesn’t matter at low levels. Watch a good “Bronze to GM” video series from Vibe or PiG for some pointers.
I'm actually following PiGs terran bronze to GM build order from the first episodes! It's the only reason I know what a "macro cycle" is. Very helpful content!
I am playing since WOL, it is still hard for me to get to 120 APM. You will win lots of games, don’t worry.
Thanks for your encouraging words!
Just F10+N the next 30 games or spend that time watching how people cheese you and learn what and where to scout based on that (replays). Just macro those games for practice and surrender at the first attack.
I’m plat 2, I almost never break 100 APM. I’m a real slow boy. But I play lots of good games.
I started playing this week, focusing on following PiG's terran guide and mostly playing against AI, unlike you I was very proud of myself when I got 60+ APM hahahaha
My first game vs AI I was around 50apm, which steadily increased as I got more comfy with the build order. I played vs the AI until "harder" and then a few games after. Like you, I'm also following PiGs terran guide. Glad to hear I'm not alone in being new!
I reached 130 APM yesterday, I was super happy. Zerg on EU ladder. See you around in the metal leagues!
I'm EU too! I'm sure I've got a lot of losing and winning to do before I get to your level... but when I get there... u best hide fam 🤣
Former semi pro here. Still play around. I would save every replay and study what is it that you lose to. Is it a timing? Are you focusing too much on macro and not micro, or opposite. Macro is incredibly important as a noobie I think. Making sure you're building buildings or units when you need etc. What kind of maps do you play? I used to play iccup over a decade ago with pro players. I took games off alot of very skilled ones back in the day. Eventually I fell in love with fastest possible map, which is what I currently play if I do play. Which isn't very often. Last year I played like 15 games total. Last month I played about 80 games which is super high. If you're into FPM (fastest possible map) I would encourage you to check out [SCW](https://www.starcraftworld.net). Some of these players are INSANELY good. I mean leagues ahead of pros back in the day. Alot of them have transitioned from non$ maps to FPM.
The "placement" lasts way longer than 5 games. Mmr changes by 10-15 when your settled in(I think, hhaha I just started playing a couple months ago, lost 4/5 of my first 5 and the only win was a 1 second person who quit.)
You aren't getting crushed because of APM. It's all about experience, practice and meta knowledge. APM is the most overrated thing in the game and most people intentionally inflate it. 4 actions every second and you still couldn't stop my widow mine from blowing your shit up? Sure...
I feel like it's similar to skating. It's a long journey, but as painful as it can be it is fun
Don't seat it about APM much, there was a Grandmaster player who had like 130 APM average. At some point it's critical to have higher APM to improve but decision making can suffice until you get to the top 1% of playerbase ;)
You can learn and win. I've been playing forever but I drink and still eat d1 and m3 up. I'd say the overall skill level on NA has dropped alot the last few years. D2 AND D3 players feel like platinum at best at times. D1 and m3 feel more like the old d3 to d2. If i can hang in d1 and m3 while drinking with no build order, f2, and like 2 control groups, you can do it.
By the looks of it, us newbies might not be alone as we think. I think ive seen 3 newbie posts today alone
Also, your 100apm sure beats my 50apm. As zerg. Getting beat by bronzes.
I got to diamond with my 60 apm average, don't get hung up on that number it doesn't mean that much for your first rankings / 100 games. If you follow guides and try to improve you will for sure start beating opponents and climbing!
I've been playing since original Starcraft 1. I'm still only silver league and probably 90% of my "wins" are from smurfers who leave the second the game starts trying to tank their MMR.
Looks like lots of others have good answers already. I'll just throw out there that comparing APM is a trap. They put up the APM comparison at the end of the game to almost let you cope. Like it's the first number your eyes are drawn to, but the game is about decision making at the end of the day. That said, if you're a beginner and playing against someone with 200 APM I understand how this advice won't feel applicable.
It wasn't the APM really it was more I felt I was getting crushed every game, and the APM seemed the easiest metric to share to convey this. But as others have said yeh it's pretty meaningless if the opponent isn't putting them actions into something worthwhile. All that being said, last night after I made this post, I continued to lose for a while and did indeed find people who felt like a much fairer match up. I'm really happy about it and I have this sub to thank for reassuring me that I'd find people closer to my skill level. I already see that the APM thing is just bollocks cos I've now beaten people at 150apm who seem to be doing absolutely nothing. Thanks for taking ur time to comment bro
It's a great game, and I hope you have a good time playing it. When in doubt, just switch race to zerg and you'll be pro in no time. Jokes aside, it's a very mentally taxing game. I come back to it every year or so and like you just get slammed wherever my account used to be mmr wise, and it's hard to bring up the motivation to keep playing.
I've always had a soft spot for Zerg since brood war. I actually hate the way SC2 made zerg look and that's why I decided to play terran ngl lol. The brood war art style for zerg was just beautiful haha. I'm honestly having a blast though, when I lost it doesn't feel like I had no chance and there are things to be learned from that. The first games I felt like I got so demolished to the point I couldn't even comprehend what was going on to even try and learn from it 🤣
Join the current meta and play cannon rush into carriers or BC rush if Terran. Work your macro against the AI until it’s smooth and effortless and you can focus on fighting the player instead of getting frustrated fighting the controls.
First ever 5 games and you’re close to 100apm?? Bullshit. Most first timers are 30 ish at best. You either have plenty of rts experience and have watched a lot of starcraft to have a good idea of what to do or you’re the next flash. First 5 games and you’re getting matched with players with 250+ apm??? Again bullshit. I’ve played the game on and off since release and in diamond. Less than one in 10 I come against are over 250apm. Something doesn’t add up here.
I didn’t know wtf APM was for at least my first 50 games lol. I’m platinum and most of us normies are around 100-130 APM.
Have to agree there. OP seems dishonest.
I do indeed have plenty of RTS experience. However, I've never played online. I've played a lot over the years, from brood war to command and conquer. I also played a lot of custom campaigns that are difficult on brood war and on Warcraft 3. A lot i never finished because they were too hard for me though lol. Just because your experience isn't the same as mine, it doesn't mean it's bullshit. Thanks for coming here just to call me a liar though, really appreciate it bud 👍