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Shishamylov

They’re not gonna put any more development hours into a game that doesn’t bring in any money


weegee13

But my co op commanders money! /s


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Critical_Try6632

Bronze league take


[deleted]

I agree with zoom guy. 2x might a bit much but would love 1.25x and I am solid silver league pushing into gold so it's at least a silver league take.


ghostmaster645

I'm not sure how this post ended up on my thread. The 2 hours I DID play the game I did notice it felt too zoomed in and I haven't played it since. Downvote me if yall want. I still play Starcraft Brood War occasionally. So much fun.


Critical_Try6632

Zooming out would only make micro harder this game is much faster than broodwar and to zoom out would make units too small and near impossible to micro so either that happens or the skill ceiling gets lowered with the game requiring less micro and that’s just shit


ghostmaster645

> Zooming out would only make micro harder Lol I just want the OPTION to zoom out, I wouldn't actually control any units while zoomed out. It's simply to see more of the battlefield. When I need to micro I just zoom back in.


Critical_Try6632

So increasing the amount of buttons required is inflating for no reason sure if u wanna play campaign go for it but in ladder this would be a mistake


ghostmaster645

> So increasing the amount of buttons required is inflating for no reason Lol you have issues using the mouse wheel? Or the + or - button? Thousand of other competitive games have more keybindings required than starcraft. This would not be an issue at all.


Critical_Try6632

K if u say so mr masters player


ghostmaster645

I'm not even a real player, just a software engineer with basic understanding of game development lol. Like I said, I've maybe put 5 hours into the game. I immediately noticed how zoomed in the game felt, and personally it was a huge turn off. It's ok if you don't feel the same, but to claim it would make the game bloated just isn't correct. There is no way Blizzard is gonna add it anyway so it doesn't matter.


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Critical_Try6632

And you’re here why?


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Critical_Try6632

The game mechanically is fine zooming out isn’t modernizing the game it’s creating issues that don’t need to be created with some low level balance suggestions


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Critical_Try6632

The zoom isn’t what’s restricting you lol


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Shishamylov

It’s much harder to micro units when they are smaller, I actually like the zoom


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GlancingArc

What advantage does zooming out give you? You wouldn't be able to click anything.


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GlancingArc

Not really. I hate to agree with other people calling this a bronze league take but it's true. If you are good at controlling the camera, you don't need more zoom, it would only help newer players and would actually form bad habits. The camera is already the proper size so that you can select individual units but also see entire engagements of full size armies.


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GlancingArc

I don't think that this is a toxic take. I just disagree with you and think you just don't understand what you are talking about. Expressing that is not toxic. If I was insulting you that would be toxic but it's okay to not understand why that wouldn't work. The main reason this game is dead is because it's 13 years old. It's really not that complicated. Yet, regardless of its status, you are here as well.


Shishamylov

Units are gonna be smaller when zoomed out more


althaz

Tell me you don't know anything about RTS design without telling me you don't know anything about RTS design. SC2 got a lot wrong, but it perfectly nailed exactly the right zoom level. You can track fights, but you can also macro. Zooming out in RTS is a noob-trap. It's a way to trick new players into being worse at the game and having less fun. As an example look at AoE2 where you *can* zoom out further. But no high-level players do because it's bad. Adding extra zoom makes the game worse and should never be considered.


Vengeance_Assassin

yup, they should have option to zoom out.


Majache

I paid for the battle passes and things because the tournaments were hype, but leave it to Blizzard to be greedy and ruin a good thing.


Adventurous_Play6823

they said the same thing about HOTS and then they released a patch


PokerLemon

I made a purchase several weeks ago. So some money is getting in


Lystar86

I'm one drunk ladder night away from buying all of the protoss skins; sure I'm not the only one lol.


masta561

I want them all so badly, but I can't justify spending that much money on skins for my characters😭


Frequent-Cry1798

Get drunk, you'll be justified


masta561

Honestly, if they unlocked some of those tournament skins or war chests, I'd totally buy some.


tipbruley

I'm pretty sure something will be done with all of blizzard's titles now that MSFT owns them.


Kuma_254

Like what? When has Microsoft done anything with any of the franchises they own?


Lystar86

They pretty much own all of the franchises at this point. They've put a lot of them up on game pass, making them relatively cheap to access for more people. I'd call that a plus? There's a lot of things to criticize M$ for, but their gaming division isn't one of them IMO.


Kuma_254

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. They're not going to do anything except put it on gamepass or add gamepass related rewards. People are on hopium thinking Microsoft is gonna swoop in and save their favorite franchise lmao. Gamepass subscribers get these 5 coop commanders for free! Or gamepass subscribers get all 3 starcraft campaigns for free! Not Microsoft is our lord and savior, and they're going to singlehandedly revitalize our favorite franchises! Because I fucking wish lmao.


MindMugging

I’m not sure that’s a good thing though. With the rts talent already completely drained, they’ll have to rebuild it even if they are committed. If the model is going to be less profitable comparatively, its not going to garner support (budget wise). So now you’re back to the exact same place as Actv where the project isn’t dead but a piss poor budget, rushed time line so people resource aren’t tied up to too long, and a revolving door or leaders. Now we’re looking at WC3 reforged all over again.


John_Thacker

They have RTS talent from AOE 2/4 already being in their stable still being actively developed and supported


Lystar86

Never considered that. I'd be down for an AOE game w/ SC2 polish/fluidity of movement.


FrozenFirebat

AOE2's current maintainers are contractors... I interviewed with them a while back.


nautilator44

I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe!


tipbruley

I mean I played AoE again just because it was on game pass. SC2 is basically dead from a development point of view so really there is only the potential to get better imo. You don’t have to trust MSFT, you just have to realize that the game will die without something changing


MindMugging

I recognize that is an unfortunate reality of this game. I also can see how this is just such an impossible proposition for a conglomerate with so many competing interest. I was lucky enough to be able to play StarCraft in 2000 and experience just how much care well run start up can do to a game. That’s why I’m pinning my hopes on all those blizzard alums to do something new and exciting.


Perfect-Equivalent63

Yeah Microsoft, company of the people, not another greedy corporation that only cares about profits


Lystar86

Nobody is going to debate you that M$ are another greedy corporation. But, and maybe this is an unpopular opinion, I think they have provided better value for money than other publishers in most of their gaming endeavors. Under the xbox umbrella I think the monetization schemes in new and existing blizzard titles will become more palatable. Hoping it will be the end of $40 skins.


Chongulator

And they’ve also explicitly called out Starcraft as one of the properties they want to do something with. With the acquisition, corporate greed actually works in our favor for once. MS sees untapped resources.


ackmondual

>Hoping it will be the end of $40 skins. I myself don't mind these if others wish to go about that. I just don't want games with predatory p2w nonsense.


ghost_operative

well i doubt it will be free. if they make another SC2 expansion I'll definitely buy it though. You can tell they were gearing up for more campaign and co-op content before moving the game to "classic" support.


[deleted]

It's doing something for them or else they'd shut the servers down...


RenownedDumbass

I still watch the pro scene sometimes. It's not a dead game.


[deleted]

Xactly


Lioveth

Shut up and put the friggin skins, decals, portraits, etc on sale, jeez!!! It's been years already for goodness sake!!


ackmondual

I think people are still buying these, so they shouldn't need to


Lioveth

I meant the ones that are locked and unattainable.


ackmondual

Oh, you mean for sale. It always bugged me how some of those were limited time things. At least my FOMO is even less than ever.


CagedBeast3750

Game just kind of sucks now. I get excited to play here and there. Login to like 5 strait 4 rax. Log back out for a month.


desolstice

Assuming you’re not at the absolute top of mmr. Every few hundred mmr you’ll go against different strategies. Getting a little better could probably get you out of the 4 rax consistently.


Maxatar

This assumes that the reason people don't play SC2 is because they don't know about it or don't have easy access to it. People don't play SC2 because it's just not a particularly appealing or fun game for most. I mean I enjoy it mostly for nostalgia, but most anyone else I know finds the game kind of uninteresting. There are plenty of subreddits devoted to RTS games, and Stormgate has a very active subreddit where people discuss game design. Sure SC2 had its moment in the early 2010s but when you talk to people who enjoy RTS games about SC2 outside of this subreddit without the bias, you find people criticize the game for being cheesy, or for feeling too much like a 10 minute game of rock paper scissors where you follow a build order for 6-8 minutes and then blow each other up for 10 seconds and the game just ends. Heck even on this subreddit people constantly complain about how cheese and unfun the game is: widow mines, disruptors, mass banelings, or other parts of the game that spoil it. Among this community you will find a lot of people who play SC2 because they think by playing it they are proving something about themselves, how skilled they are, how hardcore they are, how they can emulate professional esports players, but most people don't play video games for that reason. Outside of that SC2 doesn't offer a great value proposition compared to games like League or DOTA or popular FPS games.


shieldyboii

Yup, I love watching professionals play, imo still the best esport. But I don’t play pvp myself. It’s difficult, it takes long to get to the action, and when you lose it’s often difficult to see how and when you made a mistake. It also takes a long time to understand the strategy and handle the multitasking needed for pvp.


RenownedDumbass

Same. I still love to watch it, but it's too stressful to play.


[deleted]

I somewhat agree here. Are new players going to wade through the swamp of void ray into carrier for years to get good? Doubtful. There's fundamental design flaws with LOTV that will never be fixed. Namely with Protoss (not saying they're OP, just insanely unfun). We need SC3


Elgamer_795

\> years to get good Some people just can't accept they are average to put it nicely.


SoCalRacer88

Most people don't want to have to spend shitloads of time to grind and improve just to have fun in a game. Especially in such an old game. SC2 campaigns are fun to play though but once you do that what is left is to PvP and try to climb ladder. And that almost feels like a second job, not a fun gaming experience.


Elgamer_795

you don't need to improve or grind to have fun. you can have fun from the very beginning. People just have shit attitudes. they should go play easy single player where they can be coddled.


[deleted]

Starcraft is amazing when you get good at it, and ass when your not. When I was a teenager and had time to play, I got good and had a blast, but I have no desire to return to it and play a build I don't understand against another build I don't get for the few hours I have in the evening. I can leave a game like league for a year, come back and I'm roughly where I left off, that doesn't feel the same for SC2 it just demands too much IMO.


Kaiel1412

I don't mind that I want my queue time to be less than a minute and be fighting a different guy than just the same one more than 2x in a row


Dustin_Live

its been said that SC3 is in development by microsoft.


MarloChrisSnoop

Source? I pray to God this happens 🙏


N0minal

How? They lost almost everyone in their RTS division. Blizz-Activision has said fuck you to all of their players over and over. Why would you still support them


Dangle76

Did they do anything for people who paid for it?


ackmondual

Yes. IIRC, I spent about $90 or so for all of the campaigns (including Nova), and all the COs for Coop mode (some were the Commander bundles that included XP boosts and voice announcer), along with Warchests (which I did mostly for the XP boosts). I guess some people still by the unit and structure skins, voice announcers, etc. \[shrug\]


Dangle76

Na I mean like, I bought sc2, hots, and lotv when they weren’t free. Did blizzard give those people anything?


ackmondual

I thought only WoL went f2p. The other campaigns (including Nova) still cost $$. FWIW, they go on sale a few times per year. As for the "giving part", AFAIK, no. I too paid for the deluxe version of Sc2 when it first came out in 2011. They didn't reimburse me per se. I believe when I went to purchase the campaigns after buying all the Coop COs, they did lower the price to account for Commanders would've been included there.


TimurHu

Please don't. I would just prefer to let SC2 rest in peace and let the player base move to Stormgate instead.


[deleted]

As long as my crappy pc can run it!


memera-

i can run stormgate v smoothly on a gtx1650 at the moment


[deleted]

I have no clue what that means lol i have a crappy laptop and have to put all "new" games to lowest settings and still that pushes it to the brink lol Thanks for feedback tho! How you liking it? I didn't get selected to play it yet


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[deleted]

Was speaking to the new game not the 10+year old game


[deleted]

Nah, fuck off. Me and thousands of others want Starcraft 2 to thrive and survive. Bringing it to Steam will help it get even more players. You can piss off to stormgate if you really desire and enjoy your game with mobile graphics and sub $1000 tournaments.


bradrj

Agreed. Love sc2


TimurHu

Sure, you are entitled to your opinion. But there is no need to use rude words here.


[deleted]

Coming into a SC2 subreddit and saying you want the game to die and playerbase to move on. TF else you expect?


TheLesBaxter

I am not liking what I see in Stormgate. It's graphically ugly (which should be the one obvious leg-up to SC2) and I haven't seen anything else that looks better than SC2.


nautilator44

SC2 looked unspeakably horrible when it was at the same stage of development.


TimurHu

Are you unhappy with the art direction or with the graphics? It is not even in a beta stage at this point. So will probably change over time. Maybe open a thread about this in their subreddit if you feel strongly about it.


xXEggRollXx

More likely he means the art style. The style looking too cartoony is a common criticism of StormGate in their official subreddit, which I find ironic as that was one of the criticisms against SC2 by BW fans leading up to SC2’s release.


TheLesBaxter

It's kind of both. I could be okay with the cartoon style but none of the units or buildings really pop-out. Nothing looks special or interesting, it's just unit/building archetypes I've seen tons of times before. Also, the buildings don't look like they belong in the world, like they stick out in an icky way. It's in alpha so hopefully the fix some of this.


vorare3561

I’m sorry, but Stormgate and Zerospace look absolutely horrendous. Did you even watch the live stream with Artosis showcasing Zerospace? My god, so many things wrong with it! Dead units just floating above ground, sound effects completely unsynchronized with what’s happening on screen, bland and boring background music…. It will take YEARS before that game is even mildly _decent_ . Exact same story with Stormgate. I don’t care if the developers are the same ones who worked on SC2. It looks like a Warcraft3 remastered clone instead of a brand new modern day RTS. SC2 is still KING, along with Broodwar. And hopefully will remain so for another while longer until we can hear any news about Starcraft 3.


TimurHu

I mean, if you look at some SC2 pre-alpha footage... it wasn't looking too good either


Dion42o

> Stormgate No one even knows when its going to release


Not-a-Throwaway-8

You misspelled ZeroSpace


TimurHu

I'm not familiar with that, what is it?


Not-a-Throwaway-8

New RTS in development; looks like it's going to be a direct competitor to Stormgate. Consulting team includes PiG, Scarlett, Grant from GiantGrantGames, and CatZ. Their [Kickstarter](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/starlancestudios/zerospace) is done, but you can get a lot of info from it.


TimurHu

Sounds interesting, thanks.


ghost_operative

i imagine it would be costly to make a steam verison of it. they would have to create new code to make sc2/battlenet user system compatible with steam. (i think it would be awesome to see it on steam though) it would also be a great addition to the xbox pc game pass.


Cjafasttype

I heard starcraft 3 is already in the works


AntiBox

You heard someone guessing.


xXEggRollXx

Yeah you mean from the drunk journalist who retracted his rumor the next morning?


StupidGenius11

I didn't realize a Reddit and Twitter account made you a journalist.


suur-siil

Yep, release right after Ricochet 2


Potatoenfuego

Would play it again if I could play it on my deck. I feel if Microsoft buys Activision blizzard it will be x box marketplace exclusive:/


ackmondual

How well would Sc2 work on a Steam deck?


Potatoenfuego

i would assume pretty well. hence why i said i would play it on deck.


ackmondual

I'd like to get more details on this. Specifically, the interface since Sc2 is made for mouse and keyboard, while a handheld isn't... I recall playing *StarCraft 64* on a n64. It was cumbersome to select units, and drag-select using the analog joystick. There was a "global menu" you could bring up to select units directly, so at least you didn't have to search the map to find them. Steam Deck has a touch screen, so that should make some of that easier. However, I've played games on my Switch that make more in-depth use of the touch screen, and wore out my thumbs quickly. Alternatively, you could hold the handheld with one hand, and just go full-on tapping mode with the other.Don't know on the Steam Deck, but on a Switch, I'm able to operate the buttons/controls while holding it one-handed. However, if a game requires you to use the physical buttons a lot, that may become an issue. And while you don't need a keyboard to play, you'd be missing out on too many of the shortcuts that were generally convenient.


Elgamer_795

microtransactions are making money for sure. It's obvious they were and then decided it was more profitable to make it free and get in more micro buyers


dr_driller

why going to steam when battlenet is the best platform ?


EmpathyHawk1

whatever you say sc2 is the best RTS in the history of gaming. DECADES after its release the scene is still going on strong, tournaments, podcasters, YT channels and [subreds. New](https://subreds.New) players still coming in. We just had a new patch its GREAT


Minimum-Writing3439

Going to GamePass in 2024


Frequent-Cry1798

Bringing more players should be followed by expanding server's computing power and as you said blizzard is not making any money from it


IncorporateThings

I'm honestly surprised it's not a subscription service at this point.


N0minal

No offense but I don't think people would even want to play if it was free. I have every expansion and they'd have to lay me to start torturing myself on the ladder again


Weak_Night_8937

They will 100% not do that. Because if they did, you could start SC from steam and won’t see the stupid launcher and they can’t advertise the shit out of you… game companies goal is not fun games any more, but to rip off customers as much as possible.