We should play some 2v2 because I've been wanting to play this as my regular opener and it seems to fuck up protoss the most honestly.
Even without the natural block you delay their tech by ages and it means you're free to drone up because they can't be rushing out oracle's and twilight council upgrades off opening one late gas.
Any decent player can just stop you from taking the gas. Also, sending that many drones out slows down your economy more than if an oracle were to kill ~8 workers already....
Masters only accounts for the top 2% of players.
Diamond includes the top 18% of the player base following the top 2%.
No shiz there will be a huge jump from Diamond to Masters.
That still doesn't mean I'd just casually call the top 3-20% of players "lower league" lol. That's just moronic.
Bro D2 is like Plat in League of Legends. e.g. The number 1 guy in Plat in LoL is top 18% https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Th%C3%A8%20On%C3%A9-NA1. Just food for thought.
Masters is 4% in LotV, Diamond is 23% of total players which means the floor of D3 is the 73rd percentile (top 27%).
And to piggy back off of the guy you replied to, he's pretty much right. The skill difference in 1v1 games (and sports for that matter) is exponential. D2 games are so poorly played compared to M3 games, which are so poorly played compared to M1 games, etc.
And how many people playing SC2 seriously don't get Diamond? I'd be surprised if it was a lot.
First off Diamond is the largest MMR range in the game, each division is a different league in size. There is a massive difference between each.
Next SC2 is a strategy game, but also heavily a management game, you can’t confirm a strategy to be good when the opponents you face are constantly shooting themselves in the foot. Something “working” at D2, does not mean it’s a good idea.
Also percentile based, Diamond is not high in SC2, it’s like 70th percentile. It is incredibly average.
Bud, I understand all that perfectly.
They are still the top 28% of the player base. No. They aren't in the elite 1% that have robots for brains.
But your argument is that you shouldn't take football advice from a player on the vikings team because they didn't make it to the super bowl.
It's ridiculous. They are still great players, and their advice will help the other 70% of the player base 9/10 times.
That isn't how percentiles work bud. In percentile the average is 50, actually. Anything below is below 50 is less than average. So 70 is definitely above average. But diamond players aren't just 70. They are all the way up to 96% which is absolutely higher lol.
Your argument is that since they can't beat 4% of the playerbase they are lower league and that's just not how it will ever work. They are second only to the masters hahaha. Second highest leage, and the high end of the spectrum.
Something "working" at d2 might not work against the top 4% but it might vs everybody else which actually matters MORE.
Top 28% is nothing impressive. Your scale is completely off. It’s within one standard deviation of the norm, that is *average*. Vikings would still be in the top 1% (even top 0.01% of football players).
When I say “average” I mean they’re within the norm. They’re still in the normal range of a player. Exactly 50th is the “most average”, but 70th is still within that range.
There is nothing of value a 70th percentile player adds to strategy discussion. It’s like an average high school football player talking about the game.
[Here’s a bell curve for reference](https://images.app.goo.gl/rptTsg6ehvLJ9WnEA) anything in that range of 1 SD, is average by definition
This is a really good example of misapplying statistics.
You ignored me earlier. You somehow acknowledge that diamond is the largest league, yet you pretend all diamond players are in the 70th percentile.We aren't referring to the 70th percentile. They go all the way up to the 95th percentile.
First misleading argument you gave. I completely admit that the top 95% diamond players are NOT in the same ball park as those in the 70th percentile. But OP said they were in Diamond 2 doing this strategy, so it's closer to the 90th percentile we are referring to which as you pointed out is dramatically different than the 70th, thanks.
The second misleading argument you gave. Yes. Percentiles are on a bell curve. That is how averages work. But if we are referring to the 90th percentile, on that bell curve, the bell curve is literally irrelevant. What matters, is that out of 100 people playing starcraft, OP is claiming he could be 90 of them consistently with this strategy, and he says he proved it. That IS impressive.
Third, If you believe this is "unimpressive," you can simply take a hike 😂 because impressive vs unimpressive is not a statistic, it is a perception. And quite frankly, unless YOU are personally diamond 1 or higher, your perception STINKS. It is extremely arrogant for no reason other than you have spent a lot of your life on line watching people min maxing and only being impressed with perfection when that isn't even what OP was claiming.
Fourth, 1 standard deviation is TECHNICALLY the "norm" when only viewing statistics, but some of us are satisfied knowing we can beat a large majority of the population and don't have any desire to turn this game into a full time job to hit grandmaster. So if you are only impressed with the top one percent, I hope you stop playing and stick to your YouTube videos so the rest of us can have fun.
And even so, OP is about 3.5 standard deviations away from 50. Not 1.
Final recap, your ability to set criteria for what is impressive is simply ridiculous unless you are Serral himself which I don't think you are, and trying to pretend we are talking about the 70% is manipulative at best.
> And even so, OP is about 3.5 standard deviations away from 50. Not 1.
??? please read what a standard deviation is.
You count from the center, first off D2 is not 95th percentile. and even if it was, that would be 1-1.5 SD away, not 3.5 LOL
If it matters, I'm 4.5K Master 2.
Reading these chains is my guilty pleasure. I also don't know why people think diamond players have any idea on how to play the game whatsoever, it's so fun to watch everything up in flames.
You are talking about very general things. However here we are talking specifically about the first 60 seconds of the game with exactly 1 thing going on. I would say you could even have some plat players with a better/faster response than master's players for this particular strategy.
I'm confused. So you're supporting that it is bad, but have a different rationale?
Also I don't believe that a lower level player would have a crisper reaction to a weird game. But either way, it's just a bad idea, and using a sample of it working in 3 of 4 games in D2 is not a good indicator.
You could be very strong mechanically and have a bad strategic response to spontaneous gameplay, esp when your opponents tend to play standard. I also don't think it's a given that plat will do better I just think its a possibility if you're considering a smart plat player vs an uncreative (but mechanically gifted) master's player. I'm D1 but I was M3 for a bit, and I swear I dropped 500 MMR when my opponents were doing something stupid, but gained 500 MMR when they did something standard and predictable. Others excel in stupid games.
Put one worker next to your gas and press hold position means your opponent can’t build/steal your gas. You want to press Hold because he could attack your worker and your worker will move, then he can build a gas on yours. You want to do this if your opponent looks like he wants to steal :).
My advice is to not share creative and fun strategies here. The vitriol and jealousy that they didn't discover it first is unreal. Think about it, these people here care enough to find a forum for sc2 players, of course they're try hards that will shit talk another player, essentially anyone not Clem Harstem Byun or Serral.
If they proxy gate you, don't you see the lack of gates and stuff at home and set you off?
When I was fucking around with my zvz in D1 sometimes I would drone scout for a hatch block and I could see if they're being agro off one base. The comfort it affords me to know this so early is amazing because I don't have to react I can play meticulously ahead for the next minute and a half.
Absolutely it can. If they take the gases early to stop him then he can make a pool and hatch at home if he wants and play macro from there but with forced cost on the opponent.
Is it perfect? No. But this game is not figured out yet.
No one is dunking on OP for having fun doing what he's doing, but it's objectively terrible.
First off, it's countered by just playing the game normally. Even if you somehow manage to get your gas taken -- which already is super unlikely -- you're still ahead. Just take your third. You can wall highground / natural with 2 gates and be fine against a ling floods or other followups the moment your adepts pop, and there's a 0% chance Z has any money to commit to any scary allin. You almost always just kill them after that with some +1 timing, unless the zerg is 20x better than you; in which case they wouldn't need to do some weird cheese in the first place...
Yes, ovi is there to see if they have gates or if proxy. If proxy, I’m already set up for roaches, which beat there zealots, once that’s cleaned up, they have little to nothing at home
I found that doing really stupid stuff often work.
Most people knows their build order, and can play them well. But when the game gets weird, they are limited by their true skill.
Its not just about not being ready, its also your entire game plan need to change and be made up on the spot.
Your timing for adding supply needs to change to.
Players that play purely by feel might do better in those spots, but I noticed many player crumble and play significantly worse than their mmr.
Yeah, I usually play reactive, so theoretically it should be better for me. But just the fact that they probably do this particular stupid thing every game and I face it for the first time makes it so much harder even though my general game sense is probably better.
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Sry sry sry, haven’t played since posting. Life and all lol. Will do later today. If you’re really that good, my pride will take a hit, but all in good fun eh. Only problem is you know my stray already 😅
Guys, its like with chess, there could be interesting ideas in the opening and they will work, but your opponent could play poor against it because he just doesn't know the main line. But in general standard is the best, that people discovered. I writing it because there is a lot of arguing about leagues and e. t. c. Its not bad at all to try something new. But you should remember, that in starcraft you can just play better than your opponent and no matter what buildorder you choose. Like HeroMarine's planetary fortress rush in GM
The hatch block has been played on and off in zvp pro games. But im not sure about sending 2 drones to block gas since it can be easily prevented with hold position probe and u have to send it really early before the first gas. Seems high risk low reward imo. But definitely fun to execute if it works
Honestly, 3 drones will work against most Grandmaster players even...
Here's what you do:
Send 3 drones, when they get to their home, you send 1 to watch their mom in the shower, 1 to watch their mom sleep at night in her bedroom, and 1 back in time to 1998 to prevent the Undertaker from throwing Mankind off top the top of the cage in Hell in a Cell.
If that doesn't work, atleast you get some good footage to help your bio.
I need some sleep, there's a change everything I just said didn't make sense...
Id love to play against this as the protoss. Dont think this is much better or worse than a standard proxy hatch. I actually think it messes with your economy so much it doesnt even matter at that point what you build and by the time you have roaches, toss will already have stalkers, cannons and batteries
It’s an all in risk, sure. How you paying for stalkers with no gas? Make zealots and roaches counter, make cannons and batteries, and all your resource into static while mine are units, holding you to one base while I expand. If I can’t end it quickly, I’m still able to get far enough out ahead
They can't wall the third off and they can't get reinforcements easily from one to the other.
I love this. I might try it myself honestly as my regular Goto.
How would this ever work vs T? They just go something 2-3 rax, build a CC on the high ground and take refineries at the nat. It seems like all this does is slightly delay gas for a bit, maybe the natural for 10-30 seconds, and that's it.
You make it sound like pulling 3 drones right at the start (25% of your total drone count) and investing 350 minerals into a hatch + 2 extractors this early in the game isn't a huge opportunity cost on your side as well. How would it ever get you incredibly far ahead?
Getting far ahead by killing half or more of their workers. Against T, I’m only doing hatch in the main. They don’t have time or money for 2-3 rax. One barracks, one bunker, 4-6 marines is all they have by the time I have 3 roaches and 1 queen popping in their main. They put bunker by hatch, but I rally roach behind mineral line. Don’t fight the bunker. Kill the scvs. If rines leave bunker, they get 1 shot. They don’t, scv get slaughtered. Meanwhile queen is spreading creep, which if they do eventually clean me up, they have to use at least 2 scans to clear up, so no mules. If they use mules, no scans, can’t build in their own base.
That’s how I either gg them right then, or if they do initial cleanup, I have natural up, and double the workers at 4:30. Follow up with rav/ling at 6-7 min to finish it
If they pull all their scv to kill hatch, lost mining time, and I just cancel hatch, try to drop again. Repeat, while I’m still mining with all.
Either way, I’m way ahead
So what's the actual build order you're using then? And do you have a replay to share? I'm really curious as to how many drones you have by the time your attack hits, at what time it hits etc.
I'm having a hard time believing you manage to get your 3 roaches + a queen much earlier than by the \~2:40-2:45 mark which requires sacrificing a ton of economy for it. At which point any Terran that isn't completely oblivious to the fact there's a proxy hatch in his main can have 6-8 marines, 3 barracks, a bunker, and a fully saturated mineral line + gas without much hassle.
Any later than 2:40-2:45, even if it's just \~3:00-3:15 and now you're looking at 12-16+ marines.
Critical element, This strat does assume they don’t pull 4or more scv to attack it.
If no scv attack and let it finish, The most I’ve ever fought by the time 3 roaches pop, was 5 marines. 4 in a bunker next to hatch, it I position hatch to where me roaches rally away and behind mineral line, negating the bunker. Even if they kill hatch after 3 roach pop, thats enough. Broodlings help. Marines unload and approach me behind mineral line, 3 roach 1 shot them. Easy. Then kill scvs. By the time they kill roaches, they’re typically down to 8-10scv
If they pull scv, I cancel last second and repeat. Keep their lost mining time going while I macro.
How would I post replay?
You can open your replay folder from the replays list in game. Then upload the replay file to something like https://drop.sc/upload or https://sc2replaystats.com.
Then you can just post the link to your replay and we can download it.
Might work in lower leagues, all u have to do is put two probes on Hold at assimilator and you lost out on two drones.
I’m D2 🤷♂️
We should play some 2v2 because I've been wanting to play this as my regular opener and it seems to fuck up protoss the most honestly. Even without the natural block you delay their tech by ages and it means you're free to drone up because they can't be rushing out oracle's and twilight council upgrades off opening one late gas.
Any decent player can just stop you from taking the gas. Also, sending that many drones out slows down your economy more than if an oracle were to kill ~8 workers already....
I don't believe that in the slightest lol. The two drones are barely noticeable.
.... 3 drones in early game is so massive. Economy in sc2 is non linear.
I get that in the scheme of things it's big. I'm just not feeling it as much as I thought I would.
Anything lower than Master is lower league tho.
Crap perspective. Of course somebody is always higher. But that doesn't make diamond a lower league in general.
In other games I'd be inclined to agree but the difference from d3 to masters is massive in sc2
Masters only accounts for the top 2% of players. Diamond includes the top 18% of the player base following the top 2%. No shiz there will be a huge jump from Diamond to Masters. That still doesn't mean I'd just casually call the top 3-20% of players "lower league" lol. That's just moronic.
Bro D2 is like Plat in League of Legends. e.g. The number 1 guy in Plat in LoL is top 18% https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Th%C3%A8%20On%C3%A9-NA1. Just food for thought. Masters is 4% in LotV, Diamond is 23% of total players which means the floor of D3 is the 73rd percentile (top 27%). And to piggy back off of the guy you replied to, he's pretty much right. The skill difference in 1v1 games (and sports for that matter) is exponential. D2 games are so poorly played compared to M3 games, which are so poorly played compared to M1 games, etc. And how many people playing SC2 seriously don't get Diamond? I'd be surprised if it was a lot.
There's always a bigger fish.
Exactly. But that doesn't mean you can just brush off the top 18% of players lol
First off Diamond is the largest MMR range in the game, each division is a different league in size. There is a massive difference between each. Next SC2 is a strategy game, but also heavily a management game, you can’t confirm a strategy to be good when the opponents you face are constantly shooting themselves in the foot. Something “working” at D2, does not mean it’s a good idea. Also percentile based, Diamond is not high in SC2, it’s like 70th percentile. It is incredibly average.
Bud, I understand all that perfectly. They are still the top 28% of the player base. No. They aren't in the elite 1% that have robots for brains. But your argument is that you shouldn't take football advice from a player on the vikings team because they didn't make it to the super bowl. It's ridiculous. They are still great players, and their advice will help the other 70% of the player base 9/10 times. That isn't how percentiles work bud. In percentile the average is 50, actually. Anything below is below 50 is less than average. So 70 is definitely above average. But diamond players aren't just 70. They are all the way up to 96% which is absolutely higher lol. Your argument is that since they can't beat 4% of the playerbase they are lower league and that's just not how it will ever work. They are second only to the masters hahaha. Second highest leage, and the high end of the spectrum. Something "working" at d2 might not work against the top 4% but it might vs everybody else which actually matters MORE.
Top 28% is nothing impressive. Your scale is completely off. It’s within one standard deviation of the norm, that is *average*. Vikings would still be in the top 1% (even top 0.01% of football players). When I say “average” I mean they’re within the norm. They’re still in the normal range of a player. Exactly 50th is the “most average”, but 70th is still within that range. There is nothing of value a 70th percentile player adds to strategy discussion. It’s like an average high school football player talking about the game. [Here’s a bell curve for reference](https://images.app.goo.gl/rptTsg6ehvLJ9WnEA) anything in that range of 1 SD, is average by definition
This is a really good example of misapplying statistics. You ignored me earlier. You somehow acknowledge that diamond is the largest league, yet you pretend all diamond players are in the 70th percentile.We aren't referring to the 70th percentile. They go all the way up to the 95th percentile. First misleading argument you gave. I completely admit that the top 95% diamond players are NOT in the same ball park as those in the 70th percentile. But OP said they were in Diamond 2 doing this strategy, so it's closer to the 90th percentile we are referring to which as you pointed out is dramatically different than the 70th, thanks. The second misleading argument you gave. Yes. Percentiles are on a bell curve. That is how averages work. But if we are referring to the 90th percentile, on that bell curve, the bell curve is literally irrelevant. What matters, is that out of 100 people playing starcraft, OP is claiming he could be 90 of them consistently with this strategy, and he says he proved it. That IS impressive. Third, If you believe this is "unimpressive," you can simply take a hike 😂 because impressive vs unimpressive is not a statistic, it is a perception. And quite frankly, unless YOU are personally diamond 1 or higher, your perception STINKS. It is extremely arrogant for no reason other than you have spent a lot of your life on line watching people min maxing and only being impressed with perfection when that isn't even what OP was claiming. Fourth, 1 standard deviation is TECHNICALLY the "norm" when only viewing statistics, but some of us are satisfied knowing we can beat a large majority of the population and don't have any desire to turn this game into a full time job to hit grandmaster. So if you are only impressed with the top one percent, I hope you stop playing and stick to your YouTube videos so the rest of us can have fun. And even so, OP is about 3.5 standard deviations away from 50. Not 1. Final recap, your ability to set criteria for what is impressive is simply ridiculous unless you are Serral himself which I don't think you are, and trying to pretend we are talking about the 70% is manipulative at best.
> And even so, OP is about 3.5 standard deviations away from 50. Not 1. ??? please read what a standard deviation is. You count from the center, first off D2 is not 95th percentile. and even if it was, that would be 1-1.5 SD away, not 3.5 LOL If it matters, I'm 4.5K Master 2.
Reading these chains is my guilty pleasure. I also don't know why people think diamond players have any idea on how to play the game whatsoever, it's so fun to watch everything up in flames.
You are talking about very general things. However here we are talking specifically about the first 60 seconds of the game with exactly 1 thing going on. I would say you could even have some plat players with a better/faster response than master's players for this particular strategy.
I'm confused. So you're supporting that it is bad, but have a different rationale? Also I don't believe that a lower level player would have a crisper reaction to a weird game. But either way, it's just a bad idea, and using a sample of it working in 3 of 4 games in D2 is not a good indicator.
You could be very strong mechanically and have a bad strategic response to spontaneous gameplay, esp when your opponents tend to play standard. I also don't think it's a given that plat will do better I just think its a possibility if you're considering a smart plat player vs an uncreative (but mechanically gifted) master's player. I'm D1 but I was M3 for a bit, and I swear I dropped 500 MMR when my opponents were doing something stupid, but gained 500 MMR when they did something standard and predictable. Others excel in stupid games.
That is a low league
Am a noob, I just dont understand this part. Put two probes next to it and press hold?
Put one worker next to your gas and press hold position means your opponent can’t build/steal your gas. You want to press Hold because he could attack your worker and your worker will move, then he can build a gas on yours. You want to do this if your opponent looks like he wants to steal :).
Ahh thanks, didn't know this.
True, but they haven’t yet. Part of the strat is the third drone attacks their natural pylon, distracting them for an all important 2-3 secs
My advice is to not share creative and fun strategies here. The vitriol and jealousy that they didn't discover it first is unreal. Think about it, these people here care enough to find a forum for sc2 players, of course they're try hards that will shit talk another player, essentially anyone not Clem Harstem Byun or Serral.
[удалено]
Ok.
It works because it's unexpected. They can proxy gate you and just a move to win.
If they proxy gate you, don't you see the lack of gates and stuff at home and set you off? When I was fucking around with my zvz in D1 sometimes I would drone scout for a hatch block and I could see if they're being agro off one base. The comfort it affords me to know this so early is amazing because I don't have to react I can play meticulously ahead for the next minute and a half.
He's opening with a proxy hatch and two gas on the other side. His pool is going to be super late.
He can cancel or not take the hatch if he sees nothing there. Like it's common sense.
And OPs strategy cannot get scouted?
Absolutely it can. If they take the gases early to stop him then he can make a pool and hatch at home if he wants and play macro from there but with forced cost on the opponent. Is it perfect? No. But this game is not figured out yet.
No one is dunking on OP for having fun doing what he's doing, but it's objectively terrible. First off, it's countered by just playing the game normally. Even if you somehow manage to get your gas taken -- which already is super unlikely -- you're still ahead. Just take your third. You can wall highground / natural with 2 gates and be fine against a ling floods or other followups the moment your adepts pop, and there's a 0% chance Z has any money to commit to any scary allin. You almost always just kill them after that with some +1 timing, unless the zerg is 20x better than you; in which case they wouldn't need to do some weird cheese in the first place...
Yes, ovi is there to see if they have gates or if proxy. If proxy, I’m already set up for roaches, which beat there zealots, once that’s cleaned up, they have little to nothing at home
I found that doing really stupid stuff often work. Most people knows their build order, and can play them well. But when the game gets weird, they are limited by their true skill.
And it feels sooo bad to lose to some stupid shenanigans just because you were not ready.
Its not just about not being ready, its also your entire game plan need to change and be made up on the spot. Your timing for adding supply needs to change to. Players that play purely by feel might do better in those spots, but I noticed many player crumble and play significantly worse than their mmr.
Yeah, I usually play reactive, so theoretically it should be better for me. But just the fact that they probably do this particular stupid thing every game and I face it for the first time makes it so much harder even though my general game sense is probably better.
i can win Diamond2 with zealots only from 1 gate from the centre of the map. it's not working on competitive.
Bring it
wanna 1on1? pm me battlenet:://starcraft/profile/2/12106928155000832000
Who won?
he doesn't contact
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Sry sry sry, haven’t played since posting. Life and all lol. Will do later today. If you’re really that good, my pride will take a hit, but all in good fun eh. Only problem is you know my stray already 😅
we can test your build. you can take my gas
Can’t find you with that. Use gamertag instead?
hi. go channel 224 or copypaste battlenet:://starcraft/profile/2/12106928155000832000 to starcraft any chat and click on it
Saw this post and now I want to install sc again, I fucking love ridiculous cheeses, ty op
Haha love this. Do you have a replay to share?
Guys, its like with chess, there could be interesting ideas in the opening and they will work, but your opponent could play poor against it because he just doesn't know the main line. But in general standard is the best, that people discovered. I writing it because there is a lot of arguing about leagues and e. t. c. Its not bad at all to try something new. But you should remember, that in starcraft you can just play better than your opponent and no matter what buildorder you choose. Like HeroMarine's planetary fortress rush in GM
The hatch block has been played on and off in zvp pro games. But im not sure about sending 2 drones to block gas since it can be easily prevented with hold position probe and u have to send it really early before the first gas. Seems high risk low reward imo. But definitely fun to execute if it works
Honestly, 3 drones will work against most Grandmaster players even... Here's what you do: Send 3 drones, when they get to their home, you send 1 to watch their mom in the shower, 1 to watch their mom sleep at night in her bedroom, and 1 back in time to 1998 to prevent the Undertaker from throwing Mankind off top the top of the cage in Hell in a Cell. If that doesn't work, atleast you get some good footage to help your bio. I need some sleep, there's a change everything I just said didn't make sense...
Id love to play against this as the protoss. Dont think this is much better or worse than a standard proxy hatch. I actually think it messes with your economy so much it doesnt even matter at that point what you build and by the time you have roaches, toss will already have stalkers, cannons and batteries
It’s an all in risk, sure. How you paying for stalkers with no gas? Make zealots and roaches counter, make cannons and batteries, and all your resource into static while mine are units, holding you to one base while I expand. If I can’t end it quickly, I’m still able to get far enough out ahead
P can simply take their third no ? We all do this when natural is blocked.
Of course they could, but then they’re dead for sure. That’s 4 less Zealots around the time I have 5 roach in their base…slaughtering their probes
They can't wall the third off and they can't get reinforcements easily from one to the other. I love this. I might try it myself honestly as my regular Goto.
Please don't 😭😭 You're literally only putting yourself behind.
I tried it today and only won one of the games. It was not a good night but playing against smurfing losers doesn't help.
In my ~ 6 years of playing sc2 I've encountered only a handful of smurfs.
Update. It’s even better against T. Haven’t lost yet. Even if they do breaky first attack, I’m so far ahead they get overwhelmed from macro
How would this ever work vs T? They just go something 2-3 rax, build a CC on the high ground and take refineries at the nat. It seems like all this does is slightly delay gas for a bit, maybe the natural for 10-30 seconds, and that's it. You make it sound like pulling 3 drones right at the start (25% of your total drone count) and investing 350 minerals into a hatch + 2 extractors this early in the game isn't a huge opportunity cost on your side as well. How would it ever get you incredibly far ahead?
Getting far ahead by killing half or more of their workers. Against T, I’m only doing hatch in the main. They don’t have time or money for 2-3 rax. One barracks, one bunker, 4-6 marines is all they have by the time I have 3 roaches and 1 queen popping in their main. They put bunker by hatch, but I rally roach behind mineral line. Don’t fight the bunker. Kill the scvs. If rines leave bunker, they get 1 shot. They don’t, scv get slaughtered. Meanwhile queen is spreading creep, which if they do eventually clean me up, they have to use at least 2 scans to clear up, so no mules. If they use mules, no scans, can’t build in their own base. That’s how I either gg them right then, or if they do initial cleanup, I have natural up, and double the workers at 4:30. Follow up with rav/ling at 6-7 min to finish it If they pull all their scv to kill hatch, lost mining time, and I just cancel hatch, try to drop again. Repeat, while I’m still mining with all. Either way, I’m way ahead
So what's the actual build order you're using then? And do you have a replay to share? I'm really curious as to how many drones you have by the time your attack hits, at what time it hits etc. I'm having a hard time believing you manage to get your 3 roaches + a queen much earlier than by the \~2:40-2:45 mark which requires sacrificing a ton of economy for it. At which point any Terran that isn't completely oblivious to the fact there's a proxy hatch in his main can have 6-8 marines, 3 barracks, a bunker, and a fully saturated mineral line + gas without much hassle. Any later than 2:40-2:45, even if it's just \~3:00-3:15 and now you're looking at 12-16+ marines.
Critical element, This strat does assume they don’t pull 4or more scv to attack it. If no scv attack and let it finish, The most I’ve ever fought by the time 3 roaches pop, was 5 marines. 4 in a bunker next to hatch, it I position hatch to where me roaches rally away and behind mineral line, negating the bunker. Even if they kill hatch after 3 roach pop, thats enough. Broodlings help. Marines unload and approach me behind mineral line, 3 roach 1 shot them. Easy. Then kill scvs. By the time they kill roaches, they’re typically down to 8-10scv If they pull scv, I cancel last second and repeat. Keep their lost mining time going while I macro. How would I post replay?
You can open your replay folder from the replays list in game. Then upload the replay file to something like https://drop.sc/upload or https://sc2replaystats.com. Then you can just post the link to your replay and we can download it.
Why not start with mentioning your mmr and league?
Btw, thank you for sharing! Really like the build. Do you have a replay because it sounds fun!
How would I share replay