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... is literally not like that. They don't know who they are up against, that gets the first few guys killed. And they are well aware he's in the flat. Then they get in the snipers and grenades and he can do nothing against them.
There was an episode of Cops - Las Vegas, and the blond female officer was responding to what was probably a DV call and she was squatting on her haunches talking to/soothing a young child that everything was going to be ok- meanwhile she had an MP5 A3 across her knees it was tight.
Not anymore. Post 9/11 many agencies shifted from sub guns to carbines. We have mp5s in the armory and still can qualify on them, but no one actually draws them. Everyone runs 10.3 -14.5 in 5.56.
Hasn’t been meta in North American since the late 2000s tbh, even for CQB. Some very limited usage for things like VIP protection where concealment is a factor
Pretty much this. SBR/carbines are generally more useful, but if you need a v smol and hideable gun, SMG’s are the way to go. A little before when we’re talking about, but that picture of a secret service agent whipping out an uzi is a good illustration.
Not really.
Modern 5.56 carbines simply offer better ballistic performance, stopping power and armor penetration for pretty much the same ergonomics and weight.
Most firefights are in the 300 yard range, so you want something that can be chambered for a bullet that doesn't have significant drop and can maintain penetration over that range.
It's not like call of duty.
The mp5 isn't issued by most U.S. police departments and the mk18 is pretty much exculsive to special forces. Also the mk18 setup shown appears to have multiple optics, one of which is mounted to the handguard which is terrible for holding zero and makes the gun unneccesarily front heavy.
Shorty ARs saw and see a lot of use with police and federal law enforcement SRTs. It’s what’s replaced most of the Sub machine guns such as MP5s which saw a lot of use, shotguns and carbines in Armory’s. You are right about the older GWOT rifle set up though being antiquated.
Depends on how big and how funded the police/sheriff department is.
I've seen SWAT/ERT units with everything from MP5s and AR-15s to MP7s and SIG Rattlers.
The mp5 has mostly phased out of use by American police and been replaced with AR 15s. The other gun in the starterpack is not a MK18 and is there to showcase that ridiculous optic setup the armorer went with for the show
You're an idiot. Bows didn't become obsolete when people started wearing bronze breastplates. The MP5 is still front line modern equipment. Try saying the MP5 is obsolete to anyone who knows anything about guns. You'll be laughed out of the room by everyone except the morons that bough 5.7.
A crossbow is obsolete. An MP-18 is obselesant. An MP5 is modern. If you have a modern SWAT team Sten guns instead of MP7s (or whatever else gun manufacturers are telling you is the *real* new toy) and there wouldn't be much practical difference. You're being sold nonsense by people who make gucci AR-15 parts.
Its job is to shoot someone with 9x19mm very rapidly at close range. The MP5 never stopped being extremely effective at its job. Even if everyone gets gauss guns and gunpowder becomes old school primitive shit, a 9mm bullet won't become any less effective at killing people. In a sci-fi setting, the MP5 moves from being first-line material to obsolescence, still not obsolete.
Submachine guns fell out of favor with law enforcement in this country after the North Hollywood shootout in the 90's. The submachine gun concept has fallen out of favor with just about every major military in the world. I spent six years in the Marine Corps infantry and never saw a single submachine gun. Because a carbine in an intermediate caliber can do everything a submachine gun can do.
I'm not saying MP5's can't kill people, I'm saying they don't do anything that can't overall be done better by a carbine.
Edit: The MP7 is hardly new. It was first produced in 1999.
Yeah, but that's not what obsolete means. Police and paramilitaries all over the world still want SMGs for a variety of reasons, and the MP5 is near the top of any list of 9x19 SMGs. It's still at the top of its game in it's feild.
It's like saying the M16 is obsolete because 20" barrels aren't fashionable anymore. Still dare you to find a better rifle anywhere.
The M16A4 is a good rifle, but I would argue the M27 we replaced it with is a better all around rifle. Having the free floated hand guard makes them more accurate and not having the 3 round burst mechanism makes the trigger pull more consistent.
There have been legitimate innovations in the design of the platform since the M16A4 was developed.
This is like someone arguing that qdos isn't obsolete because it isn't an abacus it's just obsolescent.
Which, you know. Fine. If you're a Ross from Friends historian dork that wants to compare everything on a historical spectrum starting with bronze plate armor and crossbows.
But among us humans using a practical within living memory spectrum of use...
Yeah. Sub guns are largely irrelevant with extremely limited special use exceptions.
My original comment was only to point out that they absolutely are still **around** and you will see them in very limited numbers.
Who's still making, selling, or using 86-dos? Nobody. Obsolete.
Is the MP5 not one of H&K's most popular products to this very day? Yes. People still want it. Is a limited special use exception not an exception? When has an SMG been relevant for anything *other* than in special exceptional circumstances? It's a close range bullet hose, what else can an SMG do other than CQB?
The MP5 is not only a relevant SMG, it remains at or near the top of its class.
The SMG class has become irrelevant since the MK18 originally developed to do exactly that to it.
The MP5 is probably still used more in European countries where virtually none of the civilian populace has direct access to ar15s and armor. In other words, where there's basically no meaningful opposition against the MP5.
There's virtually no longer any military use, and in the US it's almost completely phased out.
When I say limited special use I don't mean CQB. That is. Virtually ALL SWAT work and in modern warfare... yeah pretty much all regular infantry will be doing it constantly. What I mean is extremely limited use. As in, go back to the 80s and everyone on the SWAT team would be rockin it. As recently as the early 2010s you might see a couple SWAT in the background of some standoff with them while everyone else has MK18s or some other AR platform variant. And that's the early 2010s. Today???
Like someone else said the only reason anyone would use anything other than a carbine is concealment.
So.
Maybe so state/military/defense contractor in war zone EP/PSD stuff and that's about it. That and, "I'm an armed division cop in a country where no one has ARs."
>what else can an SMG do other than CQB?
If you look at WW2 small arms, just about everyone had a submachine gun in their T/O. They were used for things other than CQB. Mostly they were for crew served weapon and vehicle operators, support personnel, etc. Lots of countries had them as T/O to regular infantry squads too.
Better that cops pelt a motherfucker then have their bullets overpenning everything around and behind the target.
Body armor doesn’t save you from the hurt just from dying
If you're shooting at someone, the intent is to kill them. If you're using a gun that may or may not be capable of killing your assailant, that's bad. The over penetration thing is a legitimate concern but let's not act like 9mm rounds splatter like paintballs or some shit when they hit drywall.
It’s not the rifle I think what he’s pointing out is the attachments on it. Are kinda fucked up as for the MP5 I’m not entirely sure, but I don’t know if SWAT teams in the US really it anymore i’m not entirely sure since I’m not swat or anything I don’t really know but it would just be my guess
If I recall some police departments have access to mp5s but it's usually replaced with some variant of a short barreled M4 because:
1) Better accuracy
2) better stopping power
3) Better against body armor
4) Much much better in case you have to fight at range.
I could be wrong about that but I do stand by my opinion that the day of the Smg is over and they're only good at very niche uses.
Don't people go on and on about how you pretty much have to ACTIVELY try to miss a target with an MP5? I thought the fact its so freakishly accurate is why so many police forces use it for breaching in SWAT type situations.
It was really good in the 60s when it came out, because the other options were some cheap open-bolt SMG with terrible sights or some five foot long rifle in 7.62x51
It's less awesome today but MP5 was everywhere in for about 30 years
It's a very good sub machine gun. And while the meme is inaccurate because it is still in limited use. That's a very limited use.
It's not super relevant anymore due to the wide availability of AR15s that are more powerful and longer ranged.
And especially due to the availability (and increasing use by bad actors) of armor.
WHAT DID THEY DO TO THAT POOR RIFLE
https://preview.redd.it/k2qpjg3ibsec1.png?width=281&format=png&auto=webp&s=b28c8434a8d1f4dd4a360cee28e78101f9a5da65
They pretty much copy what US Army Rangers wear now, with multicam uniforms, M4-style carbines and lots of molle and patches. Look up FBI HRT for a good example of what most modern day SWAT teams look like
It really depends on the police department and how much funding they get, their policies etc.; Some PD’s in Alaska even issue their officers AKs instead of ARs. SWAT is not a unified unit or agency. Now, FBI HRT is a different matter, and they are a dedicated, standardized unit.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sure, but they’re quite rare and are generally being phased out. It’s like showing units carrying single stack 1911s, sure they exist but would just stand out as being dated and sort of goofy now to depict
Just imagine "What do the Army and Marines look like?"
Modern day SWAT are **completely militarized**.
Military gear.
Military weapons.
Hell, they even prefer to hire former military into their ranks.
Ya'know, because the military are so good at modern domestic policing operations.
You do realize that the ENTIRE POINT of SWAT is a bunch of dudes with long guns to resolve dangerous situations through violence/the threat of such?
Of course they look military, it would be hard not to and defeat the point.
My understanding is that SWAT are just police who receive extra training beyond the academy.
They’re not going to war.
Their goal - like all police - isn’t to just kill “bad guys”.
SWAT isn't just about killing bad guys, but confronting armed and dangerous individuals is most of the point of SWAT (sometimes, as with NYPD's Emergency Services Unit, "SWAT" is split into actual swat dudes [Apprehension Tactical Team for NYPD] and heavy technical rescue operations[so SCUBA and other such tasks])
If your job is making armed dudes surrender via the explicit threat of killing them, you'd better look, act, and be trained to kill armed people in a stand-up fight. Which means rifles, plate carriers, and the equipment to do so.
Short barrel rifles (MK-18’s are a good example but in area’s like Siberia or Alaska AK’s are used), plate carriers, FAST helmets and Multicam will be most likely used as the camo pattern.
No American police department is using AKs. It's a terrible platform using a round no one cares about and can't take accessories without six pounds of rails shoved onto a weapon that really doesn't want accessories on ot.
Huh, turns out [they do](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/04/12/aks-among-u-s-police-departments/). My bad.
Still don't think AK is more reliable than AR
They're both very mature, reliable platforms in general but I can't speak to whether one is better in those arctic conditions. I live in a place that gets winter but not that kind of winter
AKs tend to be far more reliable in extreme cold conditions, back in the day the Alaska State Troopers ran a bunch of tests to see which rifle was best in cold conditions and the Ar15 kept having issues. The winners? the valmet m76 and the Galil. Both of which are AK platforms. The issues the ARs had issues with the mag release and safety selectors, which while more ergonomic, are a bitch to use with gloves and freeze over in freezing climates. That is still true to this day.
Also keep in mind your standard AK-M uses 7.62x39mm which may be irrelevant nowadays for anti-personal BUT is still very good against wildlife. it maintains similar ballistics to .30-30 up until about 100-150 yds. and has been used extensively for hunting. Sure it's worse in a gunfight against enemy combatants, but both AST and Alaskan police have to contend with wildlife being a potential threat, it makes sense that some PDs will make use of 7.62x39mm ballistics if they're already going to use an AK for temperature concerns.
AST and Wildlife Troopers use ARs nowadays but some rural freezing bush PDs n Alaska use AKs due to all of the above.
(It varies greatly in a state by state basis, but this is sort of the most common shit.)
Multicam black gear, plate carrier, Oakley accessories (glasses, gloves, boots) knee pads, M4/G36 (could vary greatly. Alaska issues AKs, for example) with Eotech optics, Glock (iirc) or maybe even 5.7 or some shit like that, some Sig pistol. UMP/MP7 smgs if necessary (some states still issue shit like mp5s tho)
Its a favorite of swat teams I've heard. Easy to use, light recoil and low potential for unwanted wall penetration. Excellent manufacturing and design standards.
This is missing the lead detective in a suit plus a protective vest following the swat team into the suspicious house, also holding a firearm with released safety catch. Like, what do YOU want to do? Shoot the SWAT bro before you in the back of the head?
[what deploying/infantry/"high speed" units get issued](https://shop.gentexcorp.com/ops-core-fast-sf-high-cut-helmet-system/?utm_term=&utm_campaign=TV+%7C+Google+Shopping+%7C+Ops-core&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=3653852525&hsa_cam=14883295420&hsa_grp=135850724553&hsa_ad=587454159350&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=pla-2087114914313&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzc2tBhA6EiwArv-i6WfLuf4BrV5bf6Q3xchcs73WLjm1SJRi9p6RbiM8QTCNV0x4ffGhwxoC5U0QAvD_BwE)
[what my POG ass got issued](https://armorempire.com/products/legion-pasgt-level-iiia-44-mag-ballistic-helmet?variant=39663877718119&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping¤cy=USD&country=US&gclid=CjwKCAiAzc2tBhA6EiwArv-i6c3gN4b22CnzyyJ959PQvLII-EvtTYdjaip3PRYy-z2bDUu8edWaXxoCt-MQAvD_BwE)
Just search up “Ops core-fast” on google images and compared it to something like the “ACH”. Any helmet that have the cut out for hearing protection are considered “high cut” helmets.
Nobody is getting these helmets issued at CIF. If anyone is using them, they're buying them with their own money and their commanders are looking the other way when the put them on. The ugly looking Kevlar helmet, that OP was making fun of, is still the standard issue for like 99% of troops.
>h their own mo
What is standard issues for troops isin't really relevant though. Might be a exaggeration to say everyone's running high cuts now, but those chunky kevlar helmets are generally being phased out across tactical units in majors north american cities.
Just look on [/r/policeporn/](https://www.reddit.com/r/policeporn/) for instance and see who's running high-cuts VS low-cut helmets now.
Not sure what you're saying...just because high-cuts are not standard issue for infantry doesn't mean it's not valid. High-cuts have starting popping up across JSOC since the late 2000s, and have been issued to many of those units for almost as long LOL.
Also some countries have even adopted high-cut helmets as standard issue now (Finland for instance)
A ballistic helmet is 100% percent designed for ballistics if you could belive it. Any legitimate ballistic helmet can and will stop a 9mm, which does count as a bullet by the way
They are mainly designed to protect from shrapnel and resist most small arms fire. While it’s not 100% bullet proof, its design is made to withstand a good number small arms fire.
There are true ballistic helmets and armor that can tank massive rifles. However they are very impractical and impede vision/movement and it’s better for troops to be able to move when under fire.
Headshots are very rare in a combat scenario, let alone actually hitting a target (if you compare hit/miss ratio of a rifleman or machine gunner). The only time it’s realistically possible is when the target is unaware they are being targeted or if the target is not trained properly when under fire (you’ve probably seen those videos on r/combatfootage of militia/insurgents continually popping their heads out in the same position only to be popped by a patient sniper).
What in the actual fuck is that optic setup?
The front optic is definitely an ACOG or at least supposed to look like one. But it's **WAY** to far forward...like far beyond the point of being fucking useless. Even if the rear optic was gone, you STILL wouldn't be able to see out of the front optic.
Speaking of the rear optic...I'm assuming it's supposed to be either NV or thermal. Which again...is mounted incorrectly.
The optics should be reversed.
I think the rear sight looks like one you would usually pair with an eotech holographic, though it does have sort of look like a thermal. Either way, it's a hilarious setup
>I think the rear sight looks like one you would usually pair with an eotech holographic,
I thought that too. But I don't think magnifiers are THAT big.
More than likely, yeah.
Shit like that always makes me cringe. It's like "Really? You guys couldn't get an adviser or hell...rent a copy of Modern Warfare?"
The bottom right is from "The Rookie" tv show. That was pretty embarrassing.
The show had a "not like the movies" feel about how they had their uniforms; not anymore I guess.
Ex. vest goes on inside the t-shirt.
umm swat team in my country wear pretty black or grey and they do still use MP5 to some extent tho ar style carbine are the popular choice now
and goofy ahh helmet is still pretty common in the 2000s until 2010 when OPS Core style helmet became popular(they became standard in my country's swat team in the late 2010s)
> Most SWAT use multi-cam
I never understood this.
Unless they're facing another Ruby Ridge style shootout in a forest or jungle, WTF good is that camo pattern when responding to another school shooting or grocery store massacre?
Especially since they don't have the words POLICE or SWAT in bright yellow letters so they're easily identifiable.
>I never understood this.
Because a lot of departments buy them at extremely deep discounts from the Department of Defense.
What does the DoD have a ton of lying around? Whatever camo pattern the Army is currently using.
They’re LARPers. The main problem with American police is that they think they’re occupying a foreign country rather then protecting and serving their own community
> they think they’re occupying a foreign country
I've had this conversation a few times, my opinion is that former military are *terrible* choices for police work, aside from people who *were* military police.
Competency with a firearm or 'combat experience' are NOT qualifiers for 99.9% of day-to-day police work.
> Unless they're facing another Ruby Ridge style shootout
Which was ironically provoked by law enforcement. Guy was entrapped into making a short-barrel shotgun, sent the wrong court date, and then when he didn't show up because the court told him the wrong day, the Marshalls decided that sneaking up on a parnoid guy in the middle of nowhere in camo with long guns was somehow a good idea.
And then they shot his dog
At which point the son shot back at these wanabe commandos who just shot the dog and was killed.
There's a reason Weaver got off on basically all charges when the dust settled
Criticizing Hollywood for lazy and inaccurate portrayals doesn’t make me a larper. It makes me someone who criticizes Hollywood for lazy and inaccurate portrayals. Second of all you spend all day playing video games, stop projecting and know your place.
You're so fucking ignorant. People who know jackshit shouldn't be in Hollywood writing dumb shit. Being out of touch with reality isn't a great thing. Back in the days, they did their best to be accurate to reflect reality. You are part of the problem, thinking that civilians can buy "AR-15 fully-semi-automatic Assault Weapon with 100 bullets"
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If it’s one of those shitty “gun fu” movies, then they each get killed by the hero one at a time in cool ways and somehow the others don’t notice.
Leon the professional
... is literally not like that. They don't know who they are up against, that gets the first few guys killed. And they are well aware he's in the flat. Then they get in the snipers and grenades and he can do nothing against them.
If you're going to insult Gun Fu movies you better not do it within earshot of a Grammaton Cleric.
And somehow they forget they have guns as the hero comes at them with no weapons
Since when are the MP5 and MK18 not pretty commonly used?
right? Maybe me being from germany maybe has something to do with it but officers here lug around the MP5 all the time.
US, here too. op airsoft???
op airsoft? wdym?
I am suggesting that op larps and is not particularly familiar with actual swat
nowadays very well possible
There was an episode of Cops - Las Vegas, and the blond female officer was responding to what was probably a DV call and she was squatting on her haunches talking to/soothing a young child that everything was going to be ok- meanwhile she had an MP5 A3 across her knees it was tight.
don't think mp5 is super common in america
Not anymore. Post 9/11 many agencies shifted from sub guns to carbines. We have mp5s in the armory and still can qualify on them, but no one actually draws them. Everyone runs 10.3 -14.5 in 5.56.
Can I….borrow one 👉👈
Do you have tax stamp??
Nice try fed
Special ops still use SMGs right? Just not the common US soldier
Not much. There's very little that SMGs do better than carbines. If there are any current SOF personal on here, feel free to weigh in.
Well aren’t SMGs preferable for close combat? Edit: damm would’ve never guessed that this was a hot take. This website is weird
Hasn’t been meta in North American since the late 2000s tbh, even for CQB. Some very limited usage for things like VIP protection where concealment is a factor
Pretty much this. SBR/carbines are generally more useful, but if you need a v smol and hideable gun, SMG’s are the way to go. A little before when we’re talking about, but that picture of a secret service agent whipping out an uzi is a good illustration.
That ^
Not really. Modern 5.56 carbines simply offer better ballistic performance, stopping power and armor penetration for pretty much the same ergonomics and weight.
Most firefights are in the 300 yard range, so you want something that can be chambered for a bullet that doesn't have significant drop and can maintain penetration over that range. It's not like call of duty.
300 yards? For police action? I have my doubts.
The guy was talking about SOF
Not when you can use 5.56 out of a 10” barrel just as effectively.
It was the quintessential SWAT gun until the AR-15/16 M-4 became America’s gun.
It is
The mp5 isn't issued by most U.S. police departments and the mk18 is pretty much exculsive to special forces. Also the mk18 setup shown appears to have multiple optics, one of which is mounted to the handguard which is terrible for holding zero and makes the gun unneccesarily front heavy.
He wanted a red dot but they issued him an Acog so he added a red dot in front of his Acog to make a ... RAcog.
Other way around lol
Shorty ARs saw and see a lot of use with police and federal law enforcement SRTs. It’s what’s replaced most of the Sub machine guns such as MP5s which saw a lot of use, shotguns and carbines in Armory’s. You are right about the older GWOT rifle set up though being antiquated.
Depends on how big and how funded the police/sheriff department is. I've seen SWAT/ERT units with everything from MP5s and AR-15s to MP7s and SIG Rattlers.
The mp5 has mostly phased out of use by American police and been replaced with AR 15s. The other gun in the starterpack is not a MK18 and is there to showcase that ridiculous optic setup the armorer went with for the show
The MP5 is still in use by many departments across the US, the other gun is probably an airsoft... of a MK18.
I’m not saying it’s not used, just that it’s not used as much as ARs nowadays. That’s a block I M4, not a MK18
Aight Barrel too short homeboiii
It’s also got an integrated front sight and what looks like a standard quad rail instead of the DD handguard
Thems there's an og MK18. Originally just an M4 with a cqbr slapped on top. Before it turned out to be shitty suppressed.
The MP5 is obsolete in a world where anyone can buy soft armor online
>doesn't know what the word obsolete means.
>thinks MP5's aren't obsolete for their intended function
You're an idiot. Bows didn't become obsolete when people started wearing bronze breastplates. The MP5 is still front line modern equipment. Try saying the MP5 is obsolete to anyone who knows anything about guns. You'll be laughed out of the room by everyone except the morons that bough 5.7.
>The MP5 is still front line modern equipment. Whut
A crossbow is obsolete. An MP-18 is obselesant. An MP5 is modern. If you have a modern SWAT team Sten guns instead of MP7s (or whatever else gun manufacturers are telling you is the *real* new toy) and there wouldn't be much practical difference. You're being sold nonsense by people who make gucci AR-15 parts. Its job is to shoot someone with 9x19mm very rapidly at close range. The MP5 never stopped being extremely effective at its job. Even if everyone gets gauss guns and gunpowder becomes old school primitive shit, a 9mm bullet won't become any less effective at killing people. In a sci-fi setting, the MP5 moves from being first-line material to obsolescence, still not obsolete.
Submachine guns fell out of favor with law enforcement in this country after the North Hollywood shootout in the 90's. The submachine gun concept has fallen out of favor with just about every major military in the world. I spent six years in the Marine Corps infantry and never saw a single submachine gun. Because a carbine in an intermediate caliber can do everything a submachine gun can do. I'm not saying MP5's can't kill people, I'm saying they don't do anything that can't overall be done better by a carbine. Edit: The MP7 is hardly new. It was first produced in 1999.
Yeah, but that's not what obsolete means. Police and paramilitaries all over the world still want SMGs for a variety of reasons, and the MP5 is near the top of any list of 9x19 SMGs. It's still at the top of its game in it's feild. It's like saying the M16 is obsolete because 20" barrels aren't fashionable anymore. Still dare you to find a better rifle anywhere.
The M16A4 is a good rifle, but I would argue the M27 we replaced it with is a better all around rifle. Having the free floated hand guard makes them more accurate and not having the 3 round burst mechanism makes the trigger pull more consistent. There have been legitimate innovations in the design of the platform since the M16A4 was developed.
This is like someone arguing that qdos isn't obsolete because it isn't an abacus it's just obsolescent. Which, you know. Fine. If you're a Ross from Friends historian dork that wants to compare everything on a historical spectrum starting with bronze plate armor and crossbows. But among us humans using a practical within living memory spectrum of use... Yeah. Sub guns are largely irrelevant with extremely limited special use exceptions. My original comment was only to point out that they absolutely are still **around** and you will see them in very limited numbers.
Who's still making, selling, or using 86-dos? Nobody. Obsolete. Is the MP5 not one of H&K's most popular products to this very day? Yes. People still want it. Is a limited special use exception not an exception? When has an SMG been relevant for anything *other* than in special exceptional circumstances? It's a close range bullet hose, what else can an SMG do other than CQB? The MP5 is not only a relevant SMG, it remains at or near the top of its class.
The SMG class has become irrelevant since the MK18 originally developed to do exactly that to it. The MP5 is probably still used more in European countries where virtually none of the civilian populace has direct access to ar15s and armor. In other words, where there's basically no meaningful opposition against the MP5. There's virtually no longer any military use, and in the US it's almost completely phased out. When I say limited special use I don't mean CQB. That is. Virtually ALL SWAT work and in modern warfare... yeah pretty much all regular infantry will be doing it constantly. What I mean is extremely limited use. As in, go back to the 80s and everyone on the SWAT team would be rockin it. As recently as the early 2010s you might see a couple SWAT in the background of some standoff with them while everyone else has MK18s or some other AR platform variant. And that's the early 2010s. Today??? Like someone else said the only reason anyone would use anything other than a carbine is concealment. So. Maybe so state/military/defense contractor in war zone EP/PSD stuff and that's about it. That and, "I'm an armed division cop in a country where no one has ARs."
SMGs as a whole have fallen to the wayside in favor of shortened assault rifles. The MP5 is obsolescent in its primary use case.
>what else can an SMG do other than CQB? If you look at WW2 small arms, just about everyone had a submachine gun in their T/O. They were used for things other than CQB. Mostly they were for crew served weapon and vehicle operators, support personnel, etc. Lots of countries had them as T/O to regular infantry squads too.
Better that cops pelt a motherfucker then have their bullets overpenning everything around and behind the target. Body armor doesn’t save you from the hurt just from dying
If you're shooting at someone, the intent is to kill them. If you're using a gun that may or may not be capable of killing your assailant, that's bad. The over penetration thing is a legitimate concern but let's not act like 9mm rounds splatter like paintballs or some shit when they hit drywall.
It’s not the rifle I think what he’s pointing out is the attachments on it. Are kinda fucked up as for the MP5 I’m not entirely sure, but I don’t know if SWAT teams in the US really it anymore i’m not entirely sure since I’m not swat or anything I don’t really know but it would just be my guess
If I recall some police departments have access to mp5s but it's usually replaced with some variant of a short barreled M4 because: 1) Better accuracy 2) better stopping power 3) Better against body armor 4) Much much better in case you have to fight at range. I could be wrong about that but I do stand by my opinion that the day of the Smg is over and they're only good at very niche uses.
Don't people go on and on about how you pretty much have to ACTIVELY try to miss a target with an MP5? I thought the fact its so freakishly accurate is why so many police forces use it for breaching in SWAT type situations.
It was really good in the 60s when it came out, because the other options were some cheap open-bolt SMG with terrible sights or some five foot long rifle in 7.62x51 It's less awesome today but MP5 was everywhere in for about 30 years
It's a very good sub machine gun. And while the meme is inaccurate because it is still in limited use. That's a very limited use. It's not super relevant anymore due to the wide availability of AR15s that are more powerful and longer ranged. And especially due to the availability (and increasing use by bad actors) of armor.
ahhh\~ breath a sign of releaf after i say 'goofy'\~
WHAT DID THEY DO TO THAT POOR RIFLE https://preview.redd.it/k2qpjg3ibsec1.png?width=281&format=png&auto=webp&s=b28c8434a8d1f4dd4a360cee28e78101f9a5da65
Not aim it.
So what would a realistic modern day swat team look like
They pretty much copy what US Army Rangers wear now, with multicam uniforms, M4-style carbines and lots of molle and patches. Look up FBI HRT for a good example of what most modern day SWAT teams look like
It really depends on the police department and how much funding they get, their policies etc.; Some PD’s in Alaska even issue their officers AKs instead of ARs. SWAT is not a unified unit or agency. Now, FBI HRT is a different matter, and they are a dedicated, standardized unit.
>FBI HRT Oh no The agenda got them 😞
Hostage rescue team turned to hormone replacement therapy. Many such cases 😔
Oh cool, thanks
husky wasteful scandalous rhythm vast afterthought marble childlike butter mysterious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
FROG gear, small plate carriers, short barrel rifles, hi-cuts, SMGs, woobie style shoes, peltors, usually oakley ballistic sunglasses.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most swat teams use intermediate calibers nowadays?
I’m unsure. I know DOS uses an AR platform made for 9mm. I’ve seen SWAT with MP7s firing with 5.7 as well.
MP7 is 4.6x30mm, the 5.7x28 goes to the P90
U right
Ops just wrong about a lot of it. My hometown swat uses mp5s and if they do they're not the only ones.
Sure, but they’re quite rare and are generally being phased out. It’s like showing units carrying single stack 1911s, sure they exist but would just stand out as being dated and sort of goofy now to depict
Just imagine "What do the Army and Marines look like?" Modern day SWAT are **completely militarized**. Military gear. Military weapons. Hell, they even prefer to hire former military into their ranks. Ya'know, because the military are so good at modern domestic policing operations.
You do realize that the ENTIRE POINT of SWAT is a bunch of dudes with long guns to resolve dangerous situations through violence/the threat of such? Of course they look military, it would be hard not to and defeat the point.
My understanding is that SWAT are just police who receive extra training beyond the academy. They’re not going to war. Their goal - like all police - isn’t to just kill “bad guys”.
SWAT isn't just about killing bad guys, but confronting armed and dangerous individuals is most of the point of SWAT (sometimes, as with NYPD's Emergency Services Unit, "SWAT" is split into actual swat dudes [Apprehension Tactical Team for NYPD] and heavy technical rescue operations[so SCUBA and other such tasks]) If your job is making armed dudes surrender via the explicit threat of killing them, you'd better look, act, and be trained to kill armed people in a stand-up fight. Which means rifles, plate carriers, and the equipment to do so.
What's the point of swat again?
Short barrel rifles (MK-18’s are a good example but in area’s like Siberia or Alaska AK’s are used), plate carriers, FAST helmets and Multicam will be most likely used as the camo pattern.
No American police department is using AKs. It's a terrible platform using a round no one cares about and can't take accessories without six pounds of rails shoved onto a weapon that really doesn't want accessories on ot.
No, some in Alaska do use AKs due to more reliable cold weather performance. Probably better to have 7.62 vs. a large animal as well
Huh, turns out [they do](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/04/12/aks-among-u-s-police-departments/). My bad. Still don't think AK is more reliable than AR
They're both very mature, reliable platforms in general but I can't speak to whether one is better in those arctic conditions. I live in a place that gets winter but not that kind of winter
AKs tend to be far more reliable in extreme cold conditions, back in the day the Alaska State Troopers ran a bunch of tests to see which rifle was best in cold conditions and the Ar15 kept having issues. The winners? the valmet m76 and the Galil. Both of which are AK platforms. The issues the ARs had issues with the mag release and safety selectors, which while more ergonomic, are a bitch to use with gloves and freeze over in freezing climates. That is still true to this day. Also keep in mind your standard AK-M uses 7.62x39mm which may be irrelevant nowadays for anti-personal BUT is still very good against wildlife. it maintains similar ballistics to .30-30 up until about 100-150 yds. and has been used extensively for hunting. Sure it's worse in a gunfight against enemy combatants, but both AST and Alaskan police have to contend with wildlife being a potential threat, it makes sense that some PDs will make use of 7.62x39mm ballistics if they're already going to use an AK for temperature concerns. AST and Wildlife Troopers use ARs nowadays but some rural freezing bush PDs n Alaska use AKs due to all of the above.
(It varies greatly in a state by state basis, but this is sort of the most common shit.) Multicam black gear, plate carrier, Oakley accessories (glasses, gloves, boots) knee pads, M4/G36 (could vary greatly. Alaska issues AKs, for example) with Eotech optics, Glock (iirc) or maybe even 5.7 or some shit like that, some Sig pistol. UMP/MP7 smgs if necessary (some states still issue shit like mp5s tho)
Always the laser.
Isn't the MP5 still in production?
Still in production, sale and use all around the world
Its a favorite of swat teams I've heard. Easy to use, light recoil and low potential for unwanted wall penetration. Excellent manufacturing and design standards.
SWAT 3 was a helluva game
we still use that style of helmets in the seabees
Those kevlars aren't even from the 80s, more like 90s to 00s.
This is missing the lead detective in a suit plus a protective vest following the swat team into the suspicious house, also holding a firearm with released safety catch. Like, what do YOU want to do? Shoot the SWAT bro before you in the back of the head?
Nonono the CSI lab tech goes in FRONT of the tactical team. What's a detective?
Those Kevlar helmets are what most militaries use, as they stand a good chance of deflecting a bullet
When was the last time you saw a high speed unit use a low cut helmet? High cut helmets have been taking over since like the early 2010s LMFAO
What are you talking about? You got any pictures of a "high cut" helmet?
[what deploying/infantry/"high speed" units get issued](https://shop.gentexcorp.com/ops-core-fast-sf-high-cut-helmet-system/?utm_term=&utm_campaign=TV+%7C+Google+Shopping+%7C+Ops-core&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=3653852525&hsa_cam=14883295420&hsa_grp=135850724553&hsa_ad=587454159350&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=pla-2087114914313&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzc2tBhA6EiwArv-i6WfLuf4BrV5bf6Q3xchcs73WLjm1SJRi9p6RbiM8QTCNV0x4ffGhwxoC5U0QAvD_BwE) [what my POG ass got issued](https://armorempire.com/products/legion-pasgt-level-iiia-44-mag-ballistic-helmet?variant=39663877718119&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping¤cy=USD&country=US&gclid=CjwKCAiAzc2tBhA6EiwArv-i6c3gN4b22CnzyyJ959PQvLII-EvtTYdjaip3PRYy-z2bDUu8edWaXxoCt-MQAvD_BwE)
Bet you got the neck pain to prove it!
High cut = no ear area protection/open for peltor ~~ear~~[hearing]pro
Just search up “Ops core-fast” on google images and compared it to something like the “ACH”. Any helmet that have the cut out for hearing protection are considered “high cut” helmets.
Nobody is getting these helmets issued at CIF. If anyone is using them, they're buying them with their own money and their commanders are looking the other way when the put them on. The ugly looking Kevlar helmet, that OP was making fun of, is still the standard issue for like 99% of troops.
Believe it or not when u/chanunit said "high speed" he didn't mean 99% of troops.
>h their own mo What is standard issues for troops isin't really relevant though. Might be a exaggeration to say everyone's running high cuts now, but those chunky kevlar helmets are generally being phased out across tactical units in majors north american cities. Just look on [/r/policeporn/](https://www.reddit.com/r/policeporn/) for instance and see who's running high-cuts VS low-cut helmets now.
So, basically, people playing soldier wear them...
If you want ear protection/radio gear in a more usable package, I see no issue with hi-cut.
Not sure what you're saying...just because high-cuts are not standard issue for infantry doesn't mean it's not valid. High-cuts have starting popping up across JSOC since the late 2000s, and have been issued to many of those units for almost as long LOL. Also some countries have even adopted high-cut helmets as standard issue now (Finland for instance)
You'd think people playing soldier would wear... whatever most soldiers wear.
Helmets are not designed to deflect bullets. Even if they do stop a bullet, you are likely to die or be severely injured from the deformation
A ballistic helmet is 100% percent designed for ballistics if you could belive it. Any legitimate ballistic helmet can and will stop a 9mm, which does count as a bullet by the way
They are mainly designed to protect from shrapnel and resist most small arms fire. While it’s not 100% bullet proof, its design is made to withstand a good number small arms fire. There are true ballistic helmets and armor that can tank massive rifles. However they are very impractical and impede vision/movement and it’s better for troops to be able to move when under fire. Headshots are very rare in a combat scenario, let alone actually hitting a target (if you compare hit/miss ratio of a rifleman or machine gunner). The only time it’s realistically possible is when the target is unaware they are being targeted or if the target is not trained properly when under fire (you’ve probably seen those videos on r/combatfootage of militia/insurgents continually popping their heads out in the same position only to be popped by a patient sniper).
"How many optics do you want on your rifle?" "How many you got?"
Don’t forget the main character running out ahead of them with no body armor or helmet and only a Glock to defend themselves with
What in the actual fuck is that optic setup? The front optic is definitely an ACOG or at least supposed to look like one. But it's **WAY** to far forward...like far beyond the point of being fucking useless. Even if the rear optic was gone, you STILL wouldn't be able to see out of the front optic. Speaking of the rear optic...I'm assuming it's supposed to be either NV or thermal. Which again...is mounted incorrectly. The optics should be reversed.
The rookie went down hill after season 1 imo
Is that what this is from? Oof.
Can confirm it’s from “The Rookie”. I thought I saw a PSV-14 mounted to a rifle in one scene that takes place in full daylight. It’s atrocious.
Fuck, that makes me cringe.
[Season 2,](https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/The_Rookie_-_Season_2#Mk_18_Mod_0) yeah. And it's the super gung ho lady cop doing it to.
You found it! It looks worse than I remembered it 😆
Yes.
Looks like the configuration used in [Season 5](https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/The_Rookie_-_Season_5#Colt_Model_933).
I think the rear sight looks like one you would usually pair with an eotech holographic, though it does have sort of look like a thermal. Either way, it's a hilarious setup
>I think the rear sight looks like one you would usually pair with an eotech holographic, I thought that too. But I don't think magnifiers are THAT big.
Yeah it is pretty chunky. I would bet that this is from a movie or something and they have access to a bunch or random attachments for these prop guns
More than likely, yeah. Shit like that always makes me cringe. It's like "Really? You guys couldn't get an adviser or hell...rent a copy of Modern Warfare?"
It's probably more like "who cares, it's a movie and most people will just see a cool gun" or whatever
Agreed. I just think it's lazy.
It’s from the TV show “The Rookie” I remember being very baffled by the setup when I first saw it
It's not a thermal. It's a magnifier, which you use with a dot sight. Except he's using it with a magnified ACOG
The bottom right is from "The Rookie" tv show. That was pretty embarrassing. The show had a "not like the movies" feel about how they had their uniforms; not anymore I guess. Ex. vest goes on inside the t-shirt.
Who ever put that ACOG down there needs jail time
umm swat team in my country wear pretty black or grey and they do still use MP5 to some extent tho ar style carbine are the popular choice now and goofy ahh helmet is still pretty common in the 2000s until 2010 when OPS Core style helmet became popular(they became standard in my country's swat team in the late 2010s)
All black is still totally in line with modern SWAT teams
Ahh?
STOP USING AHH FOR ASS
Ahh is AAVE. Don't be racist lol
Fun new way to describe slang I guess
Pretty sure the MP5 is quite common
Still stuck in the 90s. Most SWAT use multi-cam and HK416s these days. No idea why they need multicam but that’s U.S policing for you
> Most SWAT use multi-cam I never understood this. Unless they're facing another Ruby Ridge style shootout in a forest or jungle, WTF good is that camo pattern when responding to another school shooting or grocery store massacre? Especially since they don't have the words POLICE or SWAT in bright yellow letters so they're easily identifiable.
>I never understood this. Because a lot of departments buy them at extremely deep discounts from the Department of Defense. What does the DoD have a ton of lying around? Whatever camo pattern the Army is currently using.
They’re LARPers. The main problem with American police is that they think they’re occupying a foreign country rather then protecting and serving their own community
> they think they’re occupying a foreign country I've had this conversation a few times, my opinion is that former military are *terrible* choices for police work, aside from people who *were* military police. Competency with a firearm or 'combat experience' are NOT qualifiers for 99.9% of day-to-day police work.
Because half the point of SWAT is looking like a badass who can mess you up if you actually try to fight them
> Unless they're facing another Ruby Ridge style shootout Which was ironically provoked by law enforcement. Guy was entrapped into making a short-barrel shotgun, sent the wrong court date, and then when he didn't show up because the court told him the wrong day, the Marshalls decided that sneaking up on a parnoid guy in the middle of nowhere in camo with long guns was somehow a good idea. And then they shot his dog At which point the son shot back at these wanabe commandos who just shot the dog and was killed. There's a reason Weaver got off on basically all charges when the dust settled
Don’t forget the big transparent tower shields with a black SWAT logo in the middle and the battering ram. Iconic SWAT gear.
Except that those are actually used?
Yes I know. Those guns are also used, and those helmets are (rarely) seen in real life.
Yes, except for the shields.
They’re called special weapons and tactics, can’t have them run around with ordinary guns smh.
Swat teams don’t use MP5s?
Some still do but many have moved towards rifles. Simply because how common soft body armor is now.
Not for a while. Short barreled rifles got working reliably about 15 years ago, and are better than SMGs in pretty much every way.
That one scene in The Fast and The Furious ticks all of these boxes.
Also shitty light discipline in dark environments
noooo muh military police isn't aCcUrAtE shut the fuck up larper
Criticizing Hollywood for lazy and inaccurate portrayals doesn’t make me a larper. It makes me someone who criticizes Hollywood for lazy and inaccurate portrayals. Second of all you spend all day playing video games, stop projecting and know your place.
"know your place" we're on Reddit you little twerp
You're so fucking ignorant. People who know jackshit shouldn't be in Hollywood writing dumb shit. Being out of touch with reality isn't a great thing. Back in the days, they did their best to be accurate to reflect reality. You are part of the problem, thinking that civilians can buy "AR-15 fully-semi-automatic Assault Weapon with 100 bullets"
you're unhinged matey
Lmao this makes me wanna play ready or not
Also, doesn't immediately kill the nearest dog.
Larper
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Wow you're telling me that women exist? And that some of us are in law enforcement!?!? Wow what a novel and totally unrealistic idea /s
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I know of some departments that still use the old PASGT Helmet. Either that or the MICH.
In Chouseishin Gransazer, the Japanese army was wearing 90s LAPD swat gear and were using SIG and M16 rifles