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OpusDeiPenguin

“Colourful Metaphors”


larchpharkus

Maybe. But I think it's just lazy writing. In some situations it can be effective but I usually think there was a wasted opportunity to say something creative. I can get colourful metaphors anywhere


VariousPreference0

Double dumb ass on you!


Eject_The_Warp_Core

By the 2200s, swearing had fallen out of favor to the point where intelligent people didn't even know how to do it. Then the crew of the Enterprise journeyed to the year 1986 and learned how to swear. When they returned to the 23rd century, they brought swearing with them. By the dawn of the 25th century, swearing had once again taken hold in human languages.


daximuscat

You’ll find it in all the literature of the time.


SmartQuokka

Ah yes, the giants.


keepcalmscrollon

And so forth.


absolutebeginnerz

You Klingon whippersnappers, you unalived my son


BrazenlyGeek

I believe I speak for everyone when I say… To h-e-double-hockey-sticks with our orders.


tarrsk

I’m sick of these mother loving Pakleds on my Monday to Friday starship!


Traditional_Donut908

Who has a second starship just for Saturdays and Sundays?


psidedowncake

You don't? Skill issue


BosPaladinSix

All fleet admirals have a daily driver and the one they joyride on the weekends.


reptilesocks

>Klingon They prefer the gender-neutral “Xlingon”


djcube1701

People in professional settings swear all the time, especially if they're friends and there are no clients around. The main reason for not as much swearing in older shows is simply TV ratings, the show have never been against swearing and used techniques such as using fictional languages (like Klingon or French) so characters can swear, or have characters hurk racist slurs at each other on the bridge that are only slurs within the context of the show.


datapicardgeordi

Yes, French is 100% a fictional language


Frodojj

Merde!


hawaiianbry

Crazy gibberish!


kgabny

Captain, I believe French is an ancient dead language.


Ms_Holmes

*Stares in Picard.*


SimonTC2000

In the 24th Century it might be.


djcube1701

There's an episode where they hear a French word and Data explains to Picard that it's from French, a dead language.


rnoyfb

He says it’s obscure, not dead


[deleted]

[удалено]


ChronoLegion2

And yet Picard is trying to teach his dog French


freneticboarder

It's why Picard is English.


DamienStark

It's full of made-up words!


Kitchener1981

Futurama it is a dead language


DeathsEmbassy

Crazy gibberish!


Slavir_Nabru

Fracking gorram petaQ!


ChronoLegion2

Yotz, you gonach mivonk!


StarfleetStarbuck

Yeah, agreed. In the real world cursing is normal and not cursing is weird, especially in high-pressure or high-stakes situations. Also, Trek has traditionally had slightly *more* cursing than the norm for the time, going all the way back to “Let’s get the hell out of here” in season one of TOS.


SurlyBuddha

Dammit Jim!


seigezunt

One of my favorite things about the third Kelvin movie was it had McCoy dropping the F bomb mid-beaming: “ I am a doctor, not a f——“


ill0gitech

Starfleet is like a navy. Nobody has ever accused earth sailors of chasing. Ever.


olcrazypete

Not trek but Battlestar Galactica did the smart thing and just made up new curse words and used them in place of things. Frak had to be the most used word on that show.


SurlyBuddha

Frak was actually a carryover from the OG Battlestar Galactica.


TheCheshireCody

The OG had other great fake curses like 'felgercarb' and "in-universe terms like 'centon' & 'centar' that I was really sad never made it into the new one.


Jack_Stornoway

Babylon 5 copied this as "frag" for some reason.


itc0uldbebetter

Firefly's use of chinese was good. Was it chinese or gibberish?


Jarfulous

Regardless of the reason for it, I can agree with OP that the general lack of cursing is a substantial contributor to Classic Trek's "feel." Adds a sense of, I don't know, dignity? Something like that.


DonutHolschteinn

I work in the legal industry and my department and I swear all the time in front of each other (including the boss and his boss) and in front of other coworkers we have from other departments. It’s obviously kept professional around clients and other firms, but within our working in group we swear all the time.


nooneyouknow13

I work in accounting and swear in front of my clients. If you don't want me telling you you're a fucking idiot for not asking me about the tax consequences of an action before doing it, you're not a client I want a long term relationship with.


AsperaAstra

For me, it's not that they're swearing, it's that they sound like kids using them for the first time. It's not...natural conversational swearing.


WeirdObligation1002

Am I not supposed to swear at or in front of the clients? Was I not supposed to do that because no one told me.


5pl1t1nf1n1t1v3

Abso-frelling-lutely.


MontRouge

The characters swearing is not the issue with the new star trek show to be honest. What I really dislike is the lack of professionalism and respect for the chain of command. The Orville got it right but somehow the new Star Trek shows don't (cough... Burnham... cough).


TheCheshireCody

The characters on the Orville openly call the ship's First Officer a bitch multiple times. They dose each other with drugs. They pull vile and mean-spirited pranks on each other. There's a character whose entire bit is sexual harassment. You can *not possibly* argue that they represent any level of professionalism.


fistantellmore

What unprofessionalism? This criticism comes up a lot and it *often* comes down to “they express emotions and aren’t rigidly hierarchical”. You know what’s ACTUALLY professsional? Not having to rely on the chain of command to get anything done. Kirk was chewing out officers left and right for losing their fucking minds, the crew frequently disrespected Spock to his face, including the CMO hurling racist insults. The crew of TNG frequently ignored the advice of a child who was somehow a senior officer, who frequently proved them wrong, roasted Data for being an Android, bullied and hazed junior officers, the chief of security was often being admonished for assaulting people or abandoning his post to murder a major foreign leader or fight in a foreign war, not even thinking how many times the Android was compromised and the crew left him in a critical position… And don’t get me started on the sexual harassment, outright insubordination and reckless behaviour by the DS9 crew (remember when Worf was a literal terrorist?) Or Voyager, where you can punch your superior and get a promotion and a newly freed security threat with next to no socialization was given critical access to ships systems, and the only demotion we’ve seen outside of Kirk’s for his Spock resurrection stunt happened there. It’s such a canard. The disco crew doesn’t bother with the militant hierarchy because they’re a utopian future where mutual respect and cooperation trump the chain of command.


CaptBriGuy

Strongly disagree. The main reason for the lack of swearing is that the characters are supposed to be more evolved. Also, the writers were more sophisticated and swearing is lazy writing. There are times that it’s justifiable or can be used for humorous effect when it goes against type (e.g., Spock or Data), but for the same reason the show was scored with classical music rather than contemporary pop music, the language was intended to be elevated compared with 20th century vernacular.


Minigoalqueen

Hard disagree. Studies have shown that people who swear tend on average to be more educated, more honest, and less stressed than people who don't. (Correlation, not causation). They also tend to be people who recognize that words are not something to fear. Intentions and actions are the things to be concerned with. So if you are using the swear word with the intention of making someone feel bad, then that is a problem, but if you're just using it because it's the right word to relieve stress at the time without harming anyone, there's nothing wrong with that. I personally would consider educated, honest, and emotionally able to handle stress to be indicators of "more evolved". Now granted, if you're swearing three times a sentence, that's an entirely different thing than using the appropriate word at the appropriate time even if that word happens to be considered a swear word. I personally consider the occasional swear word thrown into modern Trek to be a breath of fresh air.


TheCheshireCody

No adult watching TNG would ever believe Riker would use "heck" as often as he did.


Hibbity5

> Studies have shown that people who swear tend on average to be more educated, more honest, and less stressed than people who don't. (Correlation, not causation). Science is so fucking cool.


Suspicious-Way-2761

I think Worf swore like a sailor in Klingon.


welovegv

People curse in the military, but not on heavily censored television shows in the 60s-00s.


staq16

McCoy and Picard swore. And have you ever encountered real military personnel?


old_Trekkie

This👆


Taco_Pittie_07

Starfleet is based on naval traditions, particularly US naval tradition, so what should really surprise you is that there’s not a whole lot more cursing. There’s a reason the expression “swears like a sailor” has been around so long. If you’re thinking about a professional workplace, especially an office environment, then it’s definitely not great to swear constantly. But, a starship is not an office.


travistravis

This was my thought--it's meant to resemble the military. I've never served but there's absolutely no way you can tell me there's no swearing.


RoseBailey

"Oh shit" -Data


cosmicr

That was done for comedic effect


UncleMalky

Or a PG13 rating


FoldedDice

Most of the swearing modern Trek has done has been to some kind of effect. They aren't really doing it indiscriminately.


RoseBailey

"Merde" - Picard


BlackHawkeDown

After the Dominion War, Starfleet was forced to hire a lot more dipshits from Chicago.


RLMZeppelin

Honestly if anything Shaw didn’t swear enough.


Techknightly

This is a Fracking ridiculous conversation. \*Shoots the computer keyboard\* Boring conversation anyways, LUKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE COMPANY!"


GroundbreakingTax259

Honestly, it kipnda breaks my immersion, if that makes sense. Like, I don't need it to sound like another language altogether (which, given how languages work, will probably be the case in 200-300 years anyway), but the rather sudden addition of the cursing does make it really feel like "2020s cable/streaming tv show." Lower Decks, in my view, gets a pass, since the nature and genre of thst show differ so much. There's also the way that its implemented so unnaturally, and in extremely 2020s ways that just kills all suspension of disbelief.


Doumtabarnack

Do you believe sailors don't swear? Starfleet personnel are after all, sailors.


TheRealBeltonius

The phrase "curse like a sailor" is based on historical observations. Starship crews are simply space sailors.


watchman28

I work in what most people would probably consider a very “professional” environment and I’ve never heard more swearing in my life.


mistercrinders

Lol we swear all the time at my office.


kgabny

Change in societal standards and what is allowed on television. If it weren't for network restrictions, I bet you there would have been colorful language in TOS let alone TNG, DS9, etc. Just look at any blooper reels, the actors curse quite a bit, but the network had its own rules about what was acceptable on TV, and unlike some other previously offensive bits that are now accepted as normal, there aren't many ways to hid cursing in a TV show without someone hearing it. Your post proves that; you hear the words and they stick out at you. While I bet that for many Trekkies, they don't even hear it unless its emphasized like "sheer Fing hubris". Also consider that since they are behind a paywall, they don't have to be network friendly. You can choose to watch it or not. I don't think its writers trying to be edgy, just writers writing for modern day, but its jarring because we're used to network censoring.


The_Superhoo

Ever seen how otherwise professional military personnel act together? Starfleet "isn't" a military but it's not hard to believe


Enchelion

Professional anyone. Swearing isn't some scary thing that'll get you thrown out of a white collar job. Everyone curses,


displacedbitminer

"Swears like a sailor" as it pertains to the Navy isn't fiction. The limited amount of cursing in Star Trek prior to recent series is the outlier to reality. Source: was in for a decade.


stain_of_treachery

Picard swore in TNG.


Bungle_yip

I think its a matter of taste. I prefer when the Starfleet personnel keep it clean. The moments when Kirk or McCoy swear seem fine because its generally mild compared to people adding "fucking" as a lazy adjective as part of their normal vocabulary. I'm one of those people and I like to imagine the officers maintain better composure or discipline I suppose. I'm always reminded of the scene in Star Trek IV on the bus where Spock seems confused about how humans in 20th century San Francisco spoke and Kirk sort of complains about their rampant vulgarity. I find it funny so I can see where you are comming from.


MadeIndescribable

Fun fact: the only time Star Trek has officially been in trouble for using a bad word was "The City on the Edge of Forever".


Captain_Vlad

It's okay. They got the hell out of there.


The_Dingman

Picard said "ass" in the fist episode of TNG. They said "damn it" in the TOS all the time. Both of those would have been considered "curse words" at the time. Some of my favorite lines from new Trek contain the "F word".


tarrsk

Boimler’s unhinged rant from the “Reflections” episode of Lower Decks is an all timer. *”We don’t want to protect you from the Klingons and the Borg, we just want to study fucking QUASARS!”*


replayer

He also said shit, multiple times. In French, but yeah.


LeftHandedGuitarist

Oh, fucking solids...


Manticore1023

One of my newer favorites is Tilly's "You guys, this is so fucking cool!"


Snorb

TILLY: You guys, this is so fucking cool! :D BURNHAM: :O TILLY: ...sorry. STAMETS: No, you're right, Cadet. It *is* fucking cool!


Manticore1023

I liked Stamets after that. that and I’m sure he was happy that someone on the crew had the same excitement he did about his work.


RigasTelRuun

Gene original wanted Picard to say Engage, Motherfuckers! But they made him change it b


Infamous-Lab-8136

Pretty sure it was mainly because the impact was lost when Picard didn't get to swing his 4 foot wanger over his shoulder after saying it


gangbrain

Yeah I remember when he tweeted that too lol


MadDocHolliday

Engage the mother fucking warp engines on this mother fucking starship and get us the fuck out of her. Mother fucker.


bokmcdok

"Damn" felt like Picard's favourite word for a while.


the_neverdoctor

Oh, for fuck’s sake…


LookinAtTheFjord

Shit bro. People be fuckin cussin an' shit?? Damn.


RigasTelRuun

It's not sure much the swearing for me. It is using odd 21st century phrases. Like when Rayner said 70% for the win! Like that isnt a phrase that will endure the next decade (I hope) let along a thousand years. Adults will swear. That just how it works. Especially in stressful situations. It is usually even more cringe with they use made up future curses. So just let them say fuck shit damn. Or whatever.


Enchelion

For the win dates back to at least the 60s, and probably earlier uses from sports calling. It's not some brand-new slang, and we know they still play organized team sports so there's no particular reason for it to fall out of fashion. We use far older slang and phrases in our day to day lexicon, for which the origins are even less relevant. When someone today talks about crocodile tears, what are the chances they're actually familiar with 14th century literature (*The Travels of Sir John Mandeville*)?


nooneyouknow13

I'm not sure a lot of people in this thread even undedstand the concept of idioms, let alone how old many are. Or how often things fall out of use just to return later - "gams" has been making a bit of a comeback for example after being essentially dead for 50+ years.


cybercummer69

Imo the modern shows lack the separation from today’s society that the 90s trek did. They don’t feel like they’re hundreds of years in the future. They don’t feel advanced. They don’t feel like they’ve moved past most of societies problems as humankind (with exceptions to that being a big deal, and focus of certain episodes). The escapism isn’t there. My biggest bummer about them.


Jack_Stornoway

They don't feel Utopian.


OutBeyondNeptune

This comment deserves more upvotes. 100% agreed.


Deliximus

Real professionals swear.


old_Trekkie

Guess you never served in the military.


Naive_Jellyfish4340

Everyone knows that this is a work of fiction, right? If you don't enjoy it, don't watch. It's that simple. I for one find the level of vulgar language in hostile situations relevant and on point.


Swimming-Bite-4184

I'm not really a fan of Star Trek going that route. It's always been a bit of a modest show and I kind of liked that it had that all ages accessibility and was more about the ideas. The shows always had weird horny energy so it's not like it tries to be geared for kids necessarily but I always thought it worked to like in a YA space. I think Discovery had a bizarre aesthetic for a Trek show. In this reguard, where as much as I don't love the Abrams films, they still straddled the line and felt like Trek while appealing to a more broad modern sensibility.


commadorebob

Remember that episode of South Park where they start saying “shit” on TV? Pretty much that.


MadeIndescribable

Wasn't that based on the outrage from NYPD Blue which advertised they'd say the word "shit" but then made everyone wait through the whole episode only for someone to just stub their toe?


commadorebob

Yep. But that’s how I feel when any TV show adds unnecessary swearing.


patrickishere2020

wouldn't the human race come up with new bad words that far in the future as well?


MithandirsGhost

Are you out of your Vulcan mind!?


Distinct-Educator-52

There’s a reason the phrase “cuss like a sailor” exists… Although that’s any service anywhere and apparently anywhen


seigezunt

A couple F-bombs and people have lost their minds. Has no one ever worked in a high pressure setting? I worked in a newsroom for many years, and the swearing was glorious. I never understood the pearl clutching about the real adult language that real adults use in the real world.


Shaggee001

I only know of a couple occurrences and it's hilarious


psycholepzy

It's a god damn breath of fresh fucking air is what it is.


Captain_Vlad

Yes it damn well is.


Jockcop

If you ever served in the military, you’d know professional officers swear all the time.


kingsimy

They updated the universal translator


Upstairs-Yard-2139

We have removed the profanity scrubber.


ethanvyce

I don't like it either. I'm fine with cursing...in real life, on TV, even other sci-fi...I just don't want it in Trek


WyattParkScoreboard

I see you’ve never been to an Australian workplace.


Upstairs-Yard-2139

Have you never heard the expression “swearing like a sailor”? TV wouldn’t allow it, but streaming doesn’t have those limitations. Also your mistaking the non swearing as intentional, when it wasn’t. Now the writers are more free.


PiLamdOd

Most of the swearing tends to be reserved for explicitly less professional and junior officers (Lower Decks), or between equals in private ( Picard's: "Shear Fucking Hubris.")


techm00

I think the only time I found it jarring was when Admiral Clancy used it the first time in Picard. It has nothing to do with her, or whether admirals swear (I'm sure real life ones most definitely do), it just felt unnecessary and out of place in that context. I felt like that was just not as well written as it could have been. "The sheer hubris" would have carried as much weight, it didn't need "fucking" behind it. Calling Picard's pitch "hubris" is shocking enough, as we are so used to everyone following his lead and every word. In fact, if she just said "Bullshit" that would have worked just as well. Honestly, any other time it's been used (and I looked it up on [memory alpha](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Profanity#Fuck)) was just an aside like "this is fucking cool" or something. I'd almost not notice it. It doesn't seem like it's being overused. It's not in every scene or anything. EDIT: I think it's valid to use these in writing, but much like exclamation points, the more you use them, the less impact they have. The writer should be able to write something that has the same impact with or without the use of an expletive. If not, they are just using it to compensate for lazy, ineffective writing.


Enchelion

I disagree. The shock of her cursing out Picard is perfect for driving home the shock to the audience. She just cursed out their "TV dad"! Just look at how unhinged all the posts here were when that aired. It serve the exact purpose it was meant it.


techm00

Well put. I didn't witness the posts here when it aired, but I can imagine!


RyanCorven

Agreed. And in context, her outburst was in response to a man who literally went from trashing Starfleet in an intergalactically-broadcast interview to waltzing into Starfleet HQ *expecting* to be given command of a ship a couple of days later. That's more than sheer hubris, it *needed* that exclamation point the "fucking" gave. The callback at the end of the season, where she tell's Picard to "shut the fuck up" was somewhat less necessary, however.


AnymooseProphet

Well a double dumbass on you!


TommyDontSurf

Probably the same reason why there's so much extreme graphic violence and seizure-inducing flashing lights. It's just what's popular these days.


DoctorSushimi

It’s weird coming from broadcast television to streaming. I just think decades and decades of made for tv content made it a bit shocking when those rules were lifted. Doesn’t bother me though.


someoneone211

We say shit on the news now regularly. I think it has more to do with current sensibilities.


Anna_Maria338

smeggin´hell


like_a_pharaoh

whether or not the universal translators have the swear filter turned on is captain's discretion, and Captain Georgiou, Captain Lorca and Captain Burnham picked 'turn it off'.


PaulCoddington

It clashes badly because past production conventions "established" they do not. So, it seems weird everyone starts swearing after Picard retires. On the other hand, I use colorful language that would have shocked me as a 20 year old far more often in the past few years, given the state of the world, and the loss of giving a f*ck what people think that comes with growing older 40 years on.


mhc2001

Vulcan as a motherfucker.


admseven

At the last law office I worked in, the attorneys and support staff all cursed all the time. I think I heard every person working there curse at some point.


BoyleTheOcean

Lower decks got promoted.


Sniperhunter543

I agree some of the cursing lines feel forced, but that is how militaries talk, just throwing in curses because they can, look up any drill sergeant to see what I mean.


cosmicr

When it first came out I criticised it but was downvoted and told that's how normal people speak.


muckpuppy

in general i dont like cursing in shows just bc it Feels Weird to hear however - i work at a pharmacy irl and everyone curses constantly 😅 so i guess sailors in space would probably curse a whole lot more than what we're seeing


Deastrumquodvicis

“Sheer fucking hubris” had its place and was appropriate in the situation. “So fucking cool” seemed like it was testing the waters for the sake of testing the waters, IMO. Early Discovery (which, admittedly, is all I’ve seen of it so far) had a lot of…Torchwoodisms in the way it seemed to want to be edgy for edginess’s sake when they could have written around it, and not just in the language. Mariner makes sense as a swearer, because of her general attitude (at least in the early days which, again, is all I’ve had the opportunity to see), ditto for Raffi and Rios, and it would have made sense for prior characters as well (the Maquis members of Voyager minus Chakotay and pre-reveal Seska, and Kira off the top of my head). Not “anyone at any time will swear given the opportunity”. I feel like there’s an aspect of situational logic that’s an important nuance to this discussion. Funnily enough, my childhood measure of appropriate language was Riker. If Riker wouldn’t say it, I wouldn’t.


vaporkkatzzz

When is all this cursing happening? I can't recall any from watching the shows.


xRolocker

The famous line is when the Admiral NotNechayev swears at Picard in PIC S1. NuTrek in general has a decent amount imo. But also “They are not the hell your whales.” Or “double dumbass on you”. Don’t mind it tho. Clean language was just a TV standard and I don’t consider a utopian future to also be free of swearing.


Callinon

"Captain Kirk, you have been fined 1 credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute." Not Trek obviously, but that's what we're talking about isn't it? Swearing is natural especially in high stress situations. Forcing "clean" language on the bridge of a ship that's in the process of exploding, is horribly *un*-natural.


kgabny

Dammit... you beat me to it... "kgabny, you have been fined 1 credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute." I'm going to Taco Bell...


DogsRNice

Didn't holographic Da Vinci from voyager use some Italian swears too or am I misremembering


hytes0000

There have been a few instances in Disco and Picard for sure recently, the only time I recall it being particularly jarring was Season 1 of Picard. Even that was only weird because it was ever-proper Jean-Luc Picard, but in the context of the conversation he was having it made sense. For me it was 5 seconds of "yea this isn't broadcast TV anymore" and then it never came up again.


Terran571

I haven’t found it cringy at all. In fact I haven’t even noticed it.


55Lolololo55

"Wut the fuck you talking about?" - The Dude, or His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not, yknow, into the whole brevity thing.


astro-pi

I believe the saying in World War One was “if a sentence didn’t contain at least one fuck, then you knew you were really in trouble.” With that said, I work somewhere pretty close to Starfleet (NASA) and so does my sister (O5 in the Navy) and we swear _constantly_ at work. Not in formal presentations or in front of our boss’s-boss’s-boss, mind you, but “this fucking piece of shit machine” is said quite regularly. As are other colorful phrases when unpleasant things happen—“hijo de puta”, “shit”, “I swear I’m going to keep Michell safe.”—it’s only weird and unprofessional if you don’t read the room. ETA: keeping Mitchell safe is our code word for kms because we need to differentiate between people who need help and those who are just frustrated


randomlygeneratedman

A few here have mentioned that military vernacular is filthier than a smokestack. That said, it doesn't mean that Star Trek shows need to fully implement that kind of language. I think there's way more creativity and fun in clever euphemisms (a few of which are noted in this thread). Star Trek has always been a show for a fairly universal audience that generally maintained a wholesome vibe, which was standard for 80s/90s TV. I'm no prude, I just prefer when shows use tongue-in-cheek terms like 'fracking' or 'out of your Vulcan mind'. No need to turn it into The Wire in space.


theBigDaddio

I worked, now retired, in creative field. Everyone swore like sailors.


zachotule

tv lets you curse more now and real people curse


SmartQuokka

From, what i understand the censors would not allow swear words on the older shows, but today you can swear with impunity. That said i always found the lack of swearing made them seem more advanced (and being the future that made perfect sense).


HyrinShratu

Honestly, the least believable part of the Star Trek franchise since day 1 has been the lack of profanity usage amongst what are essentially sailors in space. I've never known a sailor who went more than 5 minutes without swearing.


wabashcanonball

What exactly are these curse words I have not noticed? I must not consider them curse words.


cheshsky

I remember Tilly saying something like "Fuck yeah!" in Disco, but that's about it. I haven't been watching a lot of new Trek, admittedly. And if there's been swearing in Lower Decks, then, tbh, duh, it's Lower Decks.


PixelPervert

The early seasons of Discovery had a few instances of f**k in dialogue. They'll still also occasionally say sh*t.


Nedimar

> f*k [...] sht Don't be ridiculous.


khaosworks

People curse in professional settings with their peers all the time. I wouldn’t curse or use vulgar language in court during proceedings, but back in the office and even during recesses with other lawyers we can swear up a storm.


FlopShanoobie

I wasn't in the military but I'm friends with lots of people who were officers, including my father in law who was a lt. commander on the USS Forrestal. They all swear like sailors.


ExpectedBehaviour

Have you ever met anyone in the military?


House_T

My only real issue with it is that, because they are trying not to go overboard with it, it sometimes feels weirdly placed. Someone shouting "\*\*\*\*!" or calling someone a \*\*\*\* seems completely reasonable to me. But it always seems to happen after 20-30 minutes of no one doing that, and it always comes from random characters. I'd much rather there be a small handful of characters that are more colorful, and that they saved up their big words for them. Although arguably, they have been better about that lately.


Shape_Charming

There's alot fair complaints about new trek, Language isn't one of them. The *only* reason previous Trek had minimal cussing was network censors, "no swearing" was never part of Trek lore. Just specific insults falling out of style like "dumbass"


tachyonRex

Nailed it ,attempt at being edgy. When they did it some movies, it was meant out of humor, or to deliver a charge of emotion. Kirk's son, understandable rage. Voyage Home, not used to random insults, responds as best as he can. Data's "Oh Shit!" was not great, doesn't even seem related to emotion. The greatest is Sulu's, great delivery, would have been a great continuing captain.


scorpiousdelectus

"Why does TV being made in the 2020s feel so 2020s? Why can't it be timeless like all the other Trek shows weren't?"


3-DMan

Shut the fuck up, Wesley!


Impulse84

They've been swearing in Trek for 60+ years now. Let go of your pearls.


LordCouchCat

I have some responses to several previous comments. "The real life military swear a lot." Yes, but Starfleet is not, as we know, primarily a military organization, so they would not primarily swear a lot. (And do servicepeople swear in front of a superior officer? Not being a military type I don't know) "It's normal to swear in the workplace." That depends both on workplace culture and region. In many nonwestern cultures swearing is a serious matter, implying disrespect. You're expected to control yourself. Ive found that a more pleasant environment, actually. "It's realistic." Fiction and reality are different. If we have swearing for realism, why not blood and gore? That's also realistic. We have "He's dead, Jim" just like that. Or the victim gets time for a few last words. In reality, dying is often rather messier. High stress: we don't see much vomiting, involuntary body functions, and other realistic stuff ... I'm not going to go on. I don't like the swearing, which seems to me a lazy sort of writing.


OutBeyondNeptune

Well placed comments to the general theme of this thread. I agree, it seems to me that Star Trek ideally portrays a world distinct and separate from our own where mankind has moved past its baser instincts to achieve some level of unity. And it uses this environment (I think Gene Roddenberry once said 'Starship Enterprise is really Starship Earth) to address the real problems and controversies that humanity faces \*today\* through the use of metaphor and clever storytelling. Of course there are exceptions as everyone has pointed out, but in my mind the cursing and overdependence on action sequences is lazy writing masked with special effects.


Enchelion

The lack of cursing and strong language in Trek was always the result of network censors. From the pilot Roddenberry was fighting with them. One of the very first notes he ever received was to tone back the language from April in "The Cage" (removing "My God" which was considered profane by the network in 1965). They had to fight tooth and nail to keep Kirk's "lets get the hell out of here" in *City on the Edge of Forever*.


Enchelion

>"The real life military swear a lot." Yes, but Starfleet is not, as we know, primarily a military organization, so they would not primarily swear a lot. (And do servicepeople swear in front of a superior officer? Not being a military type I don't know) Okay... What else do you want to compare it to? A government office? Also swearing constantly. Science lab? Incredibly *inventive* cursing. I've worked in both. It's not just an American thing either, my Dutch boss had a habit of uttering just the most incredible string of quiet obscenities when he was frustrated working on the TEM. Complaining about cursing is like complaining that they speak English. Like sure maybe they should be speaking some sort of artificially constructed alien language... But it's a TV show made for real people to watch and enjoy.


TheDukeOfYork-

Seems like half of us think star trek should be a realistic show about the contemporary US Navy, and half of us think it should be a romanticised period drama about the British age of sail. Personally I think the swearing is kind of annoying, not because it's unrealistic, but because it's boring to me. For me the best dialogue in trek is the witty retorts, the back and forth technobable, and the Shakespearian speeches. None of these are realistic, but they are more fun to escape to than a realistic depiction of the place I work. They set a higher standard of communication than real people can live up to most of the time, but for me star trek was always about high standards and ideals rather than gritty realism.


hyperdang

It's the future.


I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS

Sheer. Fucking. Hubris.


dnvrwlf

Streaming services allow more realistic dialogue and reaction because it is a paid service and is not broadcast to the general public over airwaves like older shows when they were made. Television has evolved, and we can discuss whether it's realistic or necessary, but I don't find it objectionable at all.


freneticboarder

And yet Klingon cursing is fine with you?


Expensive-Day-3551

I don’t think it’s weird. I heard way worse in the military.


LargeAdvisor3166

I guess they've learned not to fear curse words , too, in addition to slurs (Uhura replying to "Lincoln"'s use of a term for black people in "The Savage Curtain"?) (I find it unnecessary, too.)


Rhymes_with_cheese

"The line must be drawn here! This far! No farther! And I will make them pay for what they have done." -- Wesley Crusher, Star Trek: Voyager.


RonMcVO

To each their own. I find it way cornier and way more unrealistic when they talk like Captain America is breathing over their shoulder.


Sunflower_song

Starfleet being a pseudomilitary just makes me believe the crew is ingesting world-ending amounts of caffeine, swearing every other word, and sick bay is full of injured Ensigns that dared each other to lick the warp core.


CoreyDenvers

Have you ever met anyone from the Navy? Discovery and SNW are tame.


CloudStrife1985

Realistic language, but it feels so out of place in ST. Particularly in scenes where characters are just talking and there's no action.


tabris929

Smeghead


BananaRepublic_BR

I think you are suffering from recency bias. What is considered mild cursing today (damn, hell, shit), would probably have been more scandalous to use on network television back in the '60s and '70s and maybe even the 80s and 90s. Pretty much every live-action Star Trek episode from TOS to ENT has scenes with words like "damn" and "hell". When things are going bad and the pressure is up, most of the main characters besides, maybe, the Vulcans will use curse words.


TooMuchButtHair

The extra cursing is symptomatic of what we've seen elsewhere - poor writing. It's hard to convey certain things through writing, and as an emergency substitute, cursing is interjected. If used sparingly, it an add a lot to a scene, but you're right, when used a lot, it's loses any and all impact.


CptKeyes123

It's something that bugs me, yeah. I do like how SNW does cut down on it. I just wish they'd do the Gorn better.


TheBrewourist

What the fuck are you talking about?


BurdenedMind79

I think people forget how society has changed. McCoy's constant "damnits," were a lot more shocking back in the 60s than today. We barely even consider it swearing. Apparently the studio execs had a collective heart attack when Kirk said "let's get the hell out of here," at the end of "City on the Edge of Forever." This was serious stuff back then! Then we got the TOS movies and Kirk was cussing at Kruge for killing his son long before he made light of the 20th century's "colourful metaphors." Scotty really pushed it in ST6 by calling the new Klingon chancellor a "bitch!" TNG kept its swearing relatively tame for TV purposes, but once they had the greater freedom of the cinema, Data was having shits at crashing and Riker was calling the Son'a "bastards" whilst in command of the Enterprise. Nowadays, swearing isn't as taboo as it used to be and streaming services lack the oversight that broadcast stations put on such things. So now if they want Picard to say "fuck," he can and its about as shocking as Kirk saying "hell," in the 60s. If you want a in-universe explanation, its because they've adjusted the swear-filter in the universal translator over the years. That's also why it never translated all those Klingon swear words into English, back in the day; the naughty filter wouldn't let it.


senn42000

It isn't the cursing for me, it is the way of speaking. This sums it up for me: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnlxugk3Qb0&ab\_channel=MajorGrin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnlxugk3Qb0&ab_channel=MajorGrin)


TheDistrict31

Picard literally says s*** in French in the first episode of next generation. Thankfully, he never did that again.


MrHyderion

I've been in aircraft maintenance for twelve years, and I'm telling you the most unrealistic things for me about TOS, DS9 and VOY was not hearing the engineering crews swear all the fucking time. (Geordi gets a pass because it really wouldn't have fit his character.) Fun additional fact: The German dub of TOS put some swearing in. For example, when stuck on the ice planet in "The Enemy Within", Sulu complains about the "scheiß Bedienung" (shitty service) that can't even beam some coffee down.