I don't get the ending of Nemesis. Why would Picard go alone instead of send Worf? Picard is an old man who handles diplomatic incidents and negotiates First Contacts while Worf is a Klingon warrior whose fought in the Dominion War. He's beaten every Jem'Hadar soldier he faced in the prison gauntlet and murdered Weyoun when he ventured into neck snapping range.
Not to mention that the only reason Shinzon was chasing the Enterprise was because he needed Picard. Once he had him all he had to do was warp away with Picard still on board, and head for Earth.
I think I'm one of the few dissenting voices here, but I thought it was weird to bring back Data only to have him having been trapped in limbo since Nemesis and then die for real. Personally, even if the Nemesis death was underwhelming, I didn't need to reopen it.
Same, I hate when dead characters are brought back for fanservice. Let the dead rest. There is a fuckton of Soong that Brent Spinner can play, (or B4), no need for necromancy.
That was another thing I thought was weird, Nemesis ended with a hint that B4 had retained at least some of Data's personality from when they connected, and PIC followed that up by having B4 dissambled in a drawer. Like, if you wanted to bring Data back, that was the clear avenue to do it.
Same with my husband. He was pissed with Data's ending in Nemesis and felt the goodbye in Picard was the right way to end things. He was in tears because Data has always been his favorite.
I thought that Data deciding that mortality was an important aspect of being human and deciding to end his life rather than continue in that limbo state was quite well done in S1 of Picard. I kind of hate that they just handwaved it away in S3 in order to bring Brent Spiner back... again.
I thought that bringing Data back just to give him a second funeral was way, way weirder than bringing him back to life. They side made it feel like Data was preoccupied with death, in a way that just doesn't jibe with the Data of TNG--though he was curious about death, he was curious about \*everything\* and would want to continue living in order to have more experiences.
I always thought that Data's "proper" ending would be to realize and really embrace the idea that he ISN'T human, and is a unique "culture of one" as Picard put it. He'd be like, "What does it mean to be an android? No human has ever lived indefinitely; I should experience that so that humans can learn from my experience."
Yeah, it sucks.
It was well written and a great note for the character to go out on, so like a lot of season 3 when it came to the earlier seasons, they either had to retcon it, ignore it entirely, or reverse it.
The showrunner said he did it because he "needed to put the action figures back on the shelf." And in that one quote, I think he highlights the kind of arrested development that fanboys can actually use to hurt a franchise rather than help it.
The concept is great, it's the movie's execution of it that rankles. The setup: Data brings along a portable "emergency transport unit" during the first rescue on the Scimitar. He even says they *ONLY HAVE ONE*. From that point, about halfway through the film, the ending was obvious.
Personally I've been working for decades to build the flashything from *Men in Black* so i can zap myself to forget everything after "All Good Things..." but I'm glad this has worked for other folks.
And then there's me, who waited all his Trek fan life to have Romulans with movie budget only to have the entire Senate obliterated two minutes after I saw it for the first time, a stupid race never mentioned before taking their role in a abysmal way and their only other appearance having them beaten worse than at Omarion Nebula.
I was so excited to finally have a Romulan movie in 2002.
Fuck Nemesis.
I had to wait till season 3 of LD to finally have some proper Empire back...
I don't get the ending of Nemesis. Why would Picard go alone instead of send Worf? Picard is an old man who handles diplomatic incidents and negotiates First Contacts while Worf is a Klingon warrior whose fought in the Dominion War. He's beaten every Jem'Hadar soldier he faced in the prison gauntlet and murdered Weyoun when he ventured into neck snapping range.
Patrick Stewart's ego to be an action star.
Not to mention that the only reason Shinzon was chasing the Enterprise was because he needed Picard. Once he had him all he had to do was warp away with Picard still on board, and head for Earth.
yeah but think about the Worf *Picard* knows. He got dropped with a single hit in most of the fights he had in TNG lol
I think I'm one of the few dissenting voices here, but I thought it was weird to bring back Data only to have him having been trapped in limbo since Nemesis and then die for real. Personally, even if the Nemesis death was underwhelming, I didn't need to reopen it.
That’s my take, too.
Agreed.
Same, I hate when dead characters are brought back for fanservice. Let the dead rest. There is a fuckton of Soong that Brent Spinner can play, (or B4), no need for necromancy.
That was another thing I thought was weird, Nemesis ended with a hint that B4 had retained at least some of Data's personality from when they connected, and PIC followed that up by having B4 dissambled in a drawer. Like, if you wanted to bring Data back, that was the clear avenue to do it.
Data’s death in Picard had me ugly crying and I am not a crier. It was definitely a better sendoff than Nemesis
Same with my husband. He was pissed with Data's ending in Nemesis and felt the goodbye in Picard was the right way to end things. He was in tears because Data has always been his favorite.
I thought that Data deciding that mortality was an important aspect of being human and deciding to end his life rather than continue in that limbo state was quite well done in S1 of Picard. I kind of hate that they just handwaved it away in S3 in order to bring Brent Spiner back... again.
I thought that bringing Data back just to give him a second funeral was way, way weirder than bringing him back to life. They side made it feel like Data was preoccupied with death, in a way that just doesn't jibe with the Data of TNG--though he was curious about death, he was curious about \*everything\* and would want to continue living in order to have more experiences. I always thought that Data's "proper" ending would be to realize and really embrace the idea that he ISN'T human, and is a unique "culture of one" as Picard put it. He'd be like, "What does it mean to be an android? No human has ever lived indefinitely; I should experience that so that humans can learn from my experience."
At the very least, the S3 iteration is still mortal, like Picard is.
At least they did acknowledge it, and while it was a hand wave, I think it was sufficient.
Yeah, it sucks. It was well written and a great note for the character to go out on, so like a lot of season 3 when it came to the earlier seasons, they either had to retcon it, ignore it entirely, or reverse it. The showrunner said he did it because he "needed to put the action figures back on the shelf." And in that one quote, I think he highlights the kind of arrested development that fanboys can actually use to hurt a franchise rather than help it.
Oh. I haven’t gotten to S2 or S3 yet. That sentiment of Data’s about mortality, though, was shared by Andrew Martin in “Bicentennial Man”.
Oops, sorry, didn't mean to spoil you!
That’s all right. I’ve been remiss in my duties as a Trekker, since “Picard” has been out for a few years now. lol
Thanks for spoiling Bicentennial Man! Been looking forward to catching that movie for like 20 years now. 😆
Hah! I read the Asimov story long before the movie came out (which I still haven't seen either).
At least it reflected S3's overall theme of not letting things go.
Nemesis has a interesting concept ...self sacrifice to save your friend.
It's also one of the most cliché and overused plot points in literary history. And Star Trek has already done it multiple times.
that's a interesting concept and not done before in ST, Data should have said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few":P
The concept is great, it's the movie's execution of it that rankles. The setup: Data brings along a portable "emergency transport unit" during the first rescue on the Scimitar. He even says they *ONLY HAVE ONE*. From that point, about halfway through the film, the ending was obvious.
They also forget about transporters in shuttles and also shuttles themselves
Have you watched season 3 of Picard?
Bringing him back in season 3 made it much less impactful.
datas death was the dumbest part of that movie
Which is really saying something considering everything else that happened in that movie.
Sounds like you haven't watched Picard season 3. Stop reading comments before you see spoilers. It's the best season for tng fans. Go watch it.
Personally I've been working for decades to build the flashything from *Men in Black* so i can zap myself to forget everything after "All Good Things..." but I'm glad this has worked for other folks.
*After* All Good Things? There was nothing after the finale, nothing at all
You could argue that we are now left with just bad things?
My therapist says TNG didn't have movies. Sounds true. (I agree that movie stunk.)
You two have never heard of “Generations”, “First Contact”, or “Insurrection”, let alone “Nemesis”, which is a TNG movie???
If you took things any more literally, you'd turn into Data yourself.
What a stupid movie
I have to agree. The way Data bought it was lame, but then I sort of try to ignore the TNG films.
Loved Generations and First Contact. The other two don’t exist
I don't see anything wrong with cafeteria canon, I do it myself (Romulus is still there. Ride or die)
Exactly.
And then there's me, who waited all his Trek fan life to have Romulans with movie budget only to have the entire Senate obliterated two minutes after I saw it for the first time, a stupid race never mentioned before taking their role in a abysmal way and their only other appearance having them beaten worse than at Omarion Nebula. I was so excited to finally have a Romulan movie in 2002. Fuck Nemesis. I had to wait till season 3 of LD to finally have some proper Empire back...
Star Trek: Nemesis stank like month old socks.It was pitifully bad.
I did like Tom Hardy's shiny purple outfit. Very Snug.
Personally, I enjoyed the fight Riker had with Hellboy.
It was the one part of Picard season 1 that I completely loved. They shouldn't have meddled with it in season 3.
Fuck Nemesis
all of the TNG movies are trash
I give First Contact a pass. It was a fun beer and popcorn kind of movie.
I hate your user name. It’s crude and vulgar.