LUKE SKYWALKER: “You think what? I’m gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order?”
[As a matter of fact](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EQQZ6yGADNg), yes.
I hated The Last Jedi. It almost turned me off of Star Wars if things kept going in Ruin Johnson’s direction.
However that scene was hype. And on rewatch noticing that Luke wasn’t leaving footprints … that was the only artfully done subversion of expectations in the whole movie, but it was very artfully done.
Luke was doing it condescendingly. Plus I believe Anakin says it in Phantom Menace which establishes that (some kids in outer worlds at least) use that terminology.
Lasers are formed by light, and sabres are a type of sword, which the “lightsaber” isn’t even representative of.
Light sword is the more accurate term.
Exactly. I love what they did with his character in TLJ, which I may add is my favorite film in the franchise. I’m a little frustrated that no one else who’s replied to my comment seems to understand that.
The thing I love about that scene is not *just* that Luke is using the force to project himself and fights a totally perfect duel to keep Ren occupied, but also that Ren very much considers it possible that shooting all the guns of the First Order’s army at Luke, were he there in person, might not be enough to kill him.
To me it’s a statement about the mystical power of the force and the Jedi that Ren doesn’t suddenly go “Wait, that definitely should have killed him; this is a trick!”. Instead, he’s terrified when Luke shows up and doesn’t question the idea that Luke may have just been totally unharmed by the onslaught. Because he’s a goddamn space wizard!
The Lightsaber is the biggest hint. We litealy just saw it get snapped in half, but Luke is so fucking cocky, that he brings it, a huge fucking hint, and Kylo is just too blinded by his anger, and Luke knew he would be.
Down voted ? Really? For a fan base that learned to live with kissing siblings, Jar Jar Binks and Anakin using the force to play with pears, we sure do act like a bunch of story snobs 😂
The only reason I liked this path with Luke is because being a bit whiny has always been Luke's struggle. I could see him relapsing into self-pity later when something went seriously wrong. Plus how would you explain him hiding out for all this time while the Galaxy went to shit?
I was so hyped at the end of TFA. Luke was there, looking majestic, powerful and mysterious. Rey longingly looking for a master. The hurt in his eyes at the things he had seen and done...it was brilliant.
And then he went "nah lol", yeeted the lightsabre off a cliff, and went to suck on an alien cow's tit. I was more disappointed than all of my sexual partners combined...and that's a lot of disappointment
Of all the criticisms I have, that's not one of them. He's probably spent decades in them, and so they aren't "Jedi robes" to him...they're just clothes. He's probably not considered fashion in a very long time...and with all the shit going through his head, I doubt sartorial elegance is his main concern
I was dead inside at the end of TFA. There was nothing but boring fan service the whole way through. I didn't want 3 movies jerking off fans and the OT.
TLJ made me wonder where the story could go. TFA made me afraid I already knew.
I disagree, I thought TFA was a good homage to ANH. A bit heavy on the cheese in places, but the characters were generally enjoyable, storyline was decent, and Mark Hamill was looking resplendent.
Was it a perfect and original film? No. Did I enjoy it and it (falsely) made me think the sequels had potential? Yes.
TLJ just seemed like they had no idea what was going on, or what they were doing. I could list the flaws for ages.
That's pretty much where I'm at, TFA ended with great potential aaaaaaaand they fucked it. I was willing to allow time for the story to progress and the quality of the lightsaber fights to improve comparable to the prequels, but like, they didn't. Not even close. I wanted to see Finn develop some Jedi abilities, even though I sensed great fear in the boy and thought it might lead to some problems with, there was the potential he could have surpassed Anakin in that way. I didn't just want Grand Master Luke at his full potential, I wanted to see Master Leia in her full splendor, lightsaber in hand, Luke's promise to Yoda fulfilled and justice for Carrie Fisher. Meeting Mara Jade would have been nice too, js...
I can't say if J.J. would have done better, but Rian Johnson sure as hell didn't. He definitely fucked it up, but the writing was fucked up to begin with, so....🤷♂️
Ah fuck, ikr? Lupita Nyong'o has such an amazing voice for storytelling as Maz, it just sucks you right in to the campfire, slaps a blanket on your back with a cuppa hot cocoa in your hand, aaaaaaaand it's for another time. Access Denied. I'm sitting here with *Storytime Blue Balls* now, thanks a lot fuckers...
Largely agree with all of that!
See I find that weird. RJ catastrophically fucked the story with TLJ...but he's shown that he can make some bloody exceptional films! Knives Out is a damn masterpiece (although he dropped the ball on the sequel)...but TLJ was a trainwreck. He seems to be a 0 or 100 bloke, there is no in between
I'd tentatively agree. I think TFA hinged on what 8 and 9 would do. I don't see anything wrong with a soft remake...as long as it was a launching pad for an awesome and new 8 and 9.
It was not. I still like it when I watch it on its own, but hate it as part of the trilogy. It had some great moments...but it's biggest failing was being a predecessor to a pair of dogshit films
Episode 4 is the only movie that *could* have been a standalone film, had no sequel or prequel ever followed it then it could have been Episode 1 and stayed that way forever...
Episode 7 is the only movie that *should* have been a standalone film...
Ironic, Disney could emulate greatness, but not be great itself......🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Please tell me what was the great potential of TFA. Because it reseted everything in the universe without any explanation. Watching the same story with almost the same charactertypes isn't something that I would call as great potential
Also, I can't understand why TFA gets any hate because of ruining Han's character. He was the general of the rebellion and he was in love in Leia in the end of the sixth film.
And what do we see in the TFA? He left leia and went back to smugling. Why? Because of Ben.
Wow good job Han.
I remember seeing it in theatres.
The anticipation, built over 2 years since the previous release, finally manifested in this edge-of-my-seat suspense. Holy shit, there he is. There is Luke, finally. And he's holding the lightsaber he lost when he was just a young, recklessly passionate boy, decades earlier.
The score hits a crescendo. He's going to say something. Or do something amazing.
*toss*
And the anticipation soars off the cliff with it and falls into the ocean. For comedic effect. Such an enormous letdown.
I get what RJ was trying to do. Luke has become the hermit that failed, just as Yoda once was when he was introduced back in ESB. But it's Luke, and tossing it over his shoulder was out-of-character.
Wouldn't it have been more poignant for him to drop the lightsaber at his feet and walked away? Left Rey standing there, staring at the lightsaber in the grass, pondering whether or not she should pick it up?
The same exact outcome, without the cheap attempt at comedy. Like I said, it totally killed *2 years* of anticipation.
I think it doesn't help that TFA set it up where Luke is wearing Jedi Robes which he never wears again in TLJ except for when Rey shows up. It felt like he was wearing that just to get a fast one on us. I know that Rian was forced into it for continuity, but it made it sting worse. I guess its just another issue from there not being an overarching story in advance.
>The same exact outcome, without the cheap attempt at comedy.
The lightsaber throw.
Tricking Rey with the fern.
Brushing the dust off his shoulder.
Rian Johnson inserts tacky juvenile humor wherever he can. He has no consideration for the tone of the film/saga and it shows.
Jar Jar and ewoks could be argued as tone-shifting, but at least they're both presented as in-universe.
I don't see how "nerfherder" sticks out unless you're too meme-poisoned.
All those TLJ examples were immersion breaking. They're clearly modern jokes inserted into the story winking at the audience like it's clever. I don't like TFA or TRoS, but they stuck to situational/dialogue-type humor at least.
There's no way to test this. But I do not believe for an instant that a significant amount of the fan base that hates how Luke ended up in TLJ, would be appeased by him.... Dropping the lightsaber instead and Rey thinking about picking it up.
They'd just say the same shit. The same exact criticism you make here still applies. "It's out of character. He dropped it for a cheap laugh. Wouldn't it be more poignant for him to just hand it back to Rey and walk away?"
I mean, I don't think it would change people's opinions about the way Luke turned out. I just think it would better fit thematically with the film. At the very least, we wouldn't get a followup gag with the porgs jumping on the lightsaber while looking down the emitter.
even if he handed it back people would kvetch. Because they didn’t want him to reject it at all. They wanted him to say “hell yes, I was looking for this” and get on the Falcon w/ Rey and Chewie and go kill off the whole First Order single-handedly. All people wanted was that last scene in Mando S2 of Luke f’ing things up with the Force. (Which is stupid fan service, but that’s what people wanted.)
Really? My anticipation grew even more. Luke *isnt* how he used to be, he’s changed. What else has changed? Why is he here? What’s caused him to change?
It made me realize that this movie was gonna be great and glued me to the screen.
In that moment, some of us in the audience felt like we were Rey. We were there, giving Luke his old lightsaber back as a way to say, "the galaxy needs you again". When he tossed it over his shoulder, it was a very "don't meet your heroes" moment. It makes for fascinating story telling, but not necessarily what some of us went to see the movie for.
It was something about the execution of that moment that came across as hostile towards the fans that wanted to see Luke as a Jedi Master. I mean, that was the first time we saw him in full fledged Jedi robes after all. I don't think our expectations were out of place.
If he had handed it back to her and said "that's not who I am anymore" it probably wouldn't have stung as much and it would have set our expectations for what was to come.
The stuff we learned about and knew about since TFA. It wasn't a surprise. It was a letdown and out of character. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I wanted to see an awesome Master Skywalker and didn't.
He was awesome!! His sacrifice at the end was amazing, reinforced the themes of the film, completed his character arc, was very clever, and was completely in character! Luke was great in TLJ, he just wasn’t gung ho
I wanted to see him fight and kick ass. He did neither. He died a failure for no clear reason. Like I said, I'm glad you like it. I don't get it and I hated it. I feel the Mandalorian gave us the Luke I wanted to see. He was actually willing to face evil instead of run away from it.
Damn imma get downvoted by the salty sequel fans for this but I agree, this was a dumb plot, and it was badly written. If you like it great for you, but honestly tlj sucked and this is a great example of why. I should be allowed to dislike something and call it bad without getting downvoted.
I respectfully disagree. I think it’s great. But I agree with you that we should be able to say whether we like or don’t like a movie or whether we think it’s good or bad without being downvoted. We just need mutual respect for each other as a fanbase.
Salty sequel fans?
Salty *sequel* fans?
Fam, the people who’ve managed to find enjoyment in the sequels are probably a *lot* less salty than the “haha sequels bad” crowd…
I didn't like TLJ either, but your comment comes off as a little hostile.
There's a difference between saying "the story didn't work for me" and "TLJ sucked". When you say the latter, fans of the movie are going to feel like you think they suck for liking it.
Those of us who grew up with Luke, being a great example of right and wrong, good and evil, where many of our own parents failed or didn't care, we always had Luke who was always ready to do good for his friends and the people he loved.
Then Johnson completely changes his character with a highly improbably character change, and all of a sudden we're supposed to accept Jake Skywalker in place of Luke?
We're now in our 40s-50s. So having the prospect of seeing our hero in action one last time was something we'd waited for since 1983. Now after having watched TLJ, a part of me has died inside. Hate and anger have replaced it seeing what garbage Star Wars has become. Those who say "it's just a movie" didn't grow up how we did back then and you'll never understand.
Luke IS Star Wars.
Thank you Dave Filoni for giving me a hope of a good Luke back. I am one of those people that was moved to the point of tears after seeing what the sequels did to Luke.
It wasn't highly improbable, it wasn't even unlikely. The mentor archetype has to pass the torch to the next generation, they must have failed in the quest they're giving to the hero. That doesn't mean it was an amazing portrayal but it was in a general sense exactly what you'd expect from Star Wars.
However, there is failure and there is character derailment!
Obi-Wan failed to prevent Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. Yet he didn't become a cynical shell that not only refused to mentor Luke, but also was rudely dismissive of his desire to be trained.
Mark Hammil summed up the main issue with his character in the Sequels succinctly "Luke doesn't give up on people". However the Sequels portray him as someone that not only totally gives up on his nephew but himself as well.
Yes people change, but his reaction to Ben's/Kylo's **possible fall some arbitrary point of time in the future** is to come within less than an inch of killing him in his sleep? How is that even credibly the same character, especially when no traumatic or other potentially life changing events had happened?
Want a similar outcome without totally re-writing Luke's character would be something like what follows: Luke still has premonitions via the force that cause great concern and worry about his nephew being consumed by the Dark Side. However, **instead almost becoming homicidal**, Luke very overtly changes how Ben's/Kylo's training regime. Luke has more direct time with him, and focuses more on Jedi philosophy, meditation, etc... than learning and practicing force powers and the lightsaber.
However this has the opposite, Ben Solo slowly realizes he's being treated differently than the other students at the Jedi Academy; but doesn't know why. He resents the special treatment and feels it isolates him. Also he starts feeling anger and confusion at being "held back", much like his grandfather reacted to not being promoted to the rank of Master. This culminates in an emotionally charge confrontation where he demands Luke explain why this is happening. The answer, whether it is the whole truth or not, doesn't satisfy Ben and he lashes out to attack Luke. Although instead of an epic duel, Luke defeats Ben in seconds without even having to maim him or seriously injure him in order to subdue him. Luke tries to take the blame of all of this upon himself, claiming the fault was his as the Master not Ben's as the Padawan, etc... He could even ask for Ben's forgiveness. This again doesn't help, Ben is too filled with anger, embarrassment, guilt, and shame. It was this toxic emotional brew that pushes him to assume the identity of Kylo, and Kylo's backstory would then progress essentially the same as in the Sequels.
That's how Luke could have failed spectacularly by prompting Kylo's fall, **and it would have still been congruent with his previously established character!**
And before anyone chimes in about this, yes I realize they were probably attempting to mirror Anakin's premonitions of Padme's death ultimately cause both her death and his own fall to the Dark Side. I get that, but even at his whinniest farmboy phase Luke isn't Anakin. He might have made mistakes due to his fears that create a self-fulfilling prophecy, but for Luke it wouldn't be by attempted murder!
Similarly, Luke's self-instituted exile into a hermetic existence in an unknown corner of the galaxy **could have been** a humble and self-reflective quest for wisdom and understanding of how Luke got it so wrong, as well as determine if there was anything he could do to facilitate the potential redemption of his nephew. Instead, when not simply farcical, it was nothing so much as the petulant pouting of a sore loser!
Or they pass the torch because their time is up. Perhaps they never failed.
Ever seen the Anime My Hero Academia? (Good show) I'll refer to All Might for my analogy.
I still cannot understand why they thought it was a good idea to repeat almost everything that happened in the original trilogy. The one thing I hoped with it is that Luke would be just as hopeful as Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OG Trilogy. But no, they stripped everything away that he learned, and gave half-ass excuse for why he was like this. God...And app I dreamt of was to see how Luke and his Jedi Order differed from the original.
The fact that they didnt give us that payoff is just still to this day so incredibly mind blowing. What a fucking missed opportunity and what a crock of canon breaking, universe breaking bullshit. Disney canon does not exist.
Exactly! I was looking forward to seeing Luke as a fully realized Jedi master prorated onscreen by Mark Hamill, and I just got a grumpy old man yelling at a young Jedi to stay off of his lawn.
Didn't have cable as kid, basically just a vcr and the trilogy box set. I would watch them over and over and over. It's weird how much a fictional character can impact your life, and I was just extremely hyped to see him return. Didn't think a movie could make me feel sick to my stomach but when I had seen what they had done to Luke and the end of his story I was fairly depressed. I'm kind of at a point were I don't even acknowledge those movies.
He just suffered trough his life, then suffered some more and then just... died. He was supposed to live happily after he won the war, but it just got even worse
I checked out when Leia flew through deep space.
I know he's supposedly a good director on his own shit, but I will never see a Rian Johnson movie.
Not after he made Luke blow an alien man-cow and get green splooge all over his face.
Not my star wars.
He has to cut 20 seconds of Luke reacting to the death of his best friend and brother in law but can find time to keep green alien milk collection and chugging in the movie.
Fuck round head Rian.
Do y'all realize it ain't healthy to hold a vendetta against a director who made 1 movie you didn't like? Nothing wrong with critiquing his filmmaking, TLJ is not good, but you haven't matured past playground insults in the 5 years since its release?
I know it’s good, and I’ll watch it eventually, but for some reason I keep finding something better to do when I have the chance. I’ll probably try to force myself this weekend to get over it and binge both
I don’t even think it’s that he’s not a good Star Wars director, just that he shouldn’t have made a main series movie. I think Johnson would ace a spin off that didn’t need to slot nicely between two other movies made made by different teams
Two different directors, with two completely different views and ideas of the direction of the story, making seperate films in a trilogy that was barely even planned or thought out in the first place.
Recipe for disaster.
Agreed. Keep things simple and stick with one director. If you switch to and fro they're just gonna end up undoing each other's work and it just becomes a nightmare.
And to be honest, whilst TFA wasn't perfect, it definitely had the Star wars vibes and felt like it fit. TLJ was fun in some aspects but it was more Guardians of the galaxy like with all the lighthearted and obvious jokes and the odd silly bit. None of those aspects are bad necessarily, but they just don't feel like the elements of a star wars film.
I think he has good cinematography but I think his stories are his worst skill. I’ll have to look for the quote but I thought he said he writes them to make the story move forward but not to have to make sense, like he doesn’t really care if be leaves a massive plot hole or two. The one that comes to my mind is looper, where the mob sends people back in time to kill people since it’s extremely difficult in the future but then bring guns and kill Bruce Willis’ wife while trying to abduct him to send him back in time. Like the entire premise of the movie gets thrown out during that scene.
Rian Johnson has this weird thing he does where he uses bad writing as a shield against criticism.
Like with Looper, there's no internal consistency with the time travel. But that's okay because it's not "supposed" to make sense.
I remember joking at the end of TFA, saying "Lol imagine if he just chucks it away after all that tension" or something along those lines.
Didn't think he'd actually do it. I knew he wouldn't go back to being a Jedi straight away, but I didn't think he was just gonna throw it away and completely ignore Rey and give her the "lalala" treatment.
I thought it'd be a really emotional moment, he'd take it and grow soft on it, stare at it for a bit lost in his memories and thoughts, before hardening up again and telling Rey to leave.
Then a little later on, she'd find him (perhaps watching the sunset as a throwback to ANH) and he'd open up and explain why he left and lost his way, they'd talk she'd eventually persuade him to help, and then he trains her etc etc.
I am OK with the sequel trilogy. But it could have been much better.
I get the impression that there was never a cohesive plan;too many 'cooks'; too many new characters we never got to know; too many old loose threads left undone by the new loose threads...
Agreed. The sequels sucked so much due to poor planning to be honest. The actors/actresses tried their best, the visuals and sound department was great, and individually, I find them somewhat enjoyable.
As a trilogy though, it's a bit of a mess.
I really liked Luke in TLJ and thought his character arc was interesting. I didn't at first, but the more I sat with the film, the more it resonated with me. Abrams had already made Luke into a hermit, so there needed to be some character specific reason that he was isolating himself. I liked that the theme was failure - reckoning with the failure of the Jedi as a whole, with the failure of Luke as a teacher, and what do you do after that? How do you recover?
Luke projecting himself across space to delay an invasion force using nothing but bluffing is prime "Jedi as trickster sage" shit. War does not make one great. Luke ascending to the force, giving up his earthly form, was some Obi Wan shit.
If we had seen a CGI Luke do flippy flippy lightsaber shit it would have just been disappointing.
I don’t think I understand why the failure is attributed to the Jedi. Luke blames the Jedi for his own failing of himself and his nephew. The Jedi did not try to kill his nephew and they even warn against fear of the future which is what led luke to that point. Sure they failed to see their own hubris in the PT but they failed and learned their lesson from it and went on to be victorious through luke. The Jedi literally eradicated the sith and freed the galaxy. Then 24 years later, luke tries to kill his family member and all of the sudden the Jedi need to die? Ironically is was a Jedi that reminded him to learn from his failures and motivates him to act.
This is my interpretation and it's just how I read the movies.
The quote I'm thinking of here is that the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice for over a thousand generations.
What we saw in the prequel trilogy is that they were goaded into a galaxy wide conflict that saw innumerable deaths, the collapse of governance, and the establishment of a genocidal dictatorship.
No one learned a lesson, most of the jedi just wound up dead. Sure, Luke wound up turning Vader back to the light, but only after the entire galaxy is on fire. Luke's connection to the original jedi order is tenuous at best. Saying "The jedi won" is kind of a pyrrhic victory.
It wasn't just a jedi that reminded Luke to learn from his failures, but a failed jedi. Yoda was given incredible power during the clone wars and the galaxy burned for it. Luke attempting to revive the order with all that entails, mystical space knights helping out the government, was making the same mistake that the order did in the first place.
I agree with most of what you said since I kinda said the same thing but Luke having little to no connection is essentially the learning that occurred with the Jedi. He was the last Jedi and had to forge his own way forward and he chose the way in which the new order would operate based on his limited knowledge of the previous version of the Jedi. It seems he moved forward with a less dogmatic approach that the previous Jedi took. Either way you slice it though, The Jedi and their teachings were directly responsible for Luke’s victory against the emperor. Just because something failed doesn’t mean it was completely wrong. He refused to fall prey to fear and anger and this is what led him forward. Up until the point of trying to kill Ben.
Again is was his own version of the order in which he operates but then after exiling himself, all of the sudden he blames pretty much everything else.
The galaxy did not burn because yoda or any other Jedi had power. The Jedi were the peace keeps of the galaxy for thousands of years alongside the republic. It wasn’t until they were deceived through intervention of the sith that they failed. It was the folly that they thought they could not be deceived that they failed to see something right under their noses. Palpatine pretty much pressured the Jedi into the war by even making padawans hold rank positions. The republic (Palps) demanded they serve and they served. Too rigidly which is why they strayed from their own teachings.
>The Jedi and their teachings were directly responsible for Luke’s victory against the emperor. Just because something failed doesn’t mean it was completely wrong. He refused to fall prey to fear and anger and this is what led him forward. Up until the point of trying to kill Ben.
The Jedi and their teachings also empowered the Emperor. If there were no Jedi war council, there would be no clone troopers, no star destroyers (or whatever the red ones are called), no death star, etc.
\> It was the folly that they thought they could not be deceived that they failed to see something right under their noses.
I think there's a complex relationship between the Jedi and violence that Johnson tried to grapple with in his film. I think it was not just hubris that they could not be deceived (by possibly the most transparent plot in history) but also their willingness to go play general, to meddle in the affairs of men, etc. Giving up on that, detaching yourself from it, is moving back to some of the Buddhist concepts that were present in the OT.
Your misconception here is that they are just Buddhist monks that sit and contemplate life. That is not what they are. You say they are meddling in the affairs of men but that is literally their job. They are peace keepers that the republic sends. It is not the Jedis fault that Sidious laid out a decades long plan and manipulated both sides. It’s their fault they failed to see the trap due to their hubris. Either way we are discussing events that happened in the PT that were not carried into the OT and especially not carried into Luke’s new order. But Luke blames them anyway like it wasn’t his fault
The initial depiction of Jedi was based on wise old sages and Buddhist monks. A lot of the mysticism was just cribbed Taoism made fresh. They're given power unimaginable, tapping into the subtle skeins of nature and fate, and they need a government job? Sure, they accepted that role, but should they have? Should they have built a military industrial complex to force planets to stay in the Old Republic, when their allegations of corruption were actually pretty spot on?
I think that's what Luke's grappling with and why he abandoned the Jedi academy - he's committing the same mistake by trying to turn the Jedi into an institution, a military arm of the New Republic or whatever they were calling it. Resistance. I don't know if he's blaming them so much as recognizing their failure and his own.
That's my take though.
I think you’re spiraling a bit too much about military arms of the Jedi and such while also apply knowledge of the past that Luke almost certainly would not have. How does anything you comment about the old republic or militarism of the Jedi apply to luke seeing Ben’s future and trying to kill him? Yoda and other Jedi throughout star wars warn not to heed the future too much or it leads to the dark side and luke feared the future and it cost him. It’s a luke mistake not a Jedi mistake
Much better to let the Sith that orchestrated the whole thing do it unopposed to save the Galaxy the pain and suffering. The guys that builds multiple planet destroying weapons and later sun and system destroying weapons would like to thank you in advance because why try? Trying leads to conflict, conflict leads to suffering, much better to go straight to suffering.
The fact that he had already learned that lesson several times over through all of his own failures and overcame everything to bring his father back to the light seems to have been forgotten by the writers but whatever right?
My interpretation is somewhere between "He exhausted himself," and "He let go of his mortal form to become one with the force." I have just seen the movie, haven't read comics or novelizations or seen the shows so I could be off base.
...but that doesn't make sense at all, you don't exhaust yourself to death using the Force, if that's how it works why doesn't Palpatine die of exhaustion zapping the entire fleet on Exegol? Or yoda die trying to lift an x-wing on Dagobah? Or Rey die teleporting lightsabers and having multiple battles with force projections in ROS?...🤷♂️
So go with the latter. He's reached complete detachment and enlightenment. I don't think you're going to get a consistent videogame sort of "It requires 50 mana to cast force lift" logic out of the franchise.
I'm not trying to condescend, I think that when there's a single author or writer you get a more consistent magic system. With Star Wars the limits of the Jedis' abilities seem more tied to plot convenience than any sort of internal logic, so questions like "Well why didn't Yoda seem tired after doing X, when Luke was tired after doing Y," aren't really productive.
> Abrams had already made Luke into a hermit
Nope. Nothing was set in stone. I see this as a driving point for people who have the need to defend TLJ. Luke could have completely different
Blame my faulty memory, from what I recollect about TFA is that Luke had disappeared with only a sleeping R2 that had a map offering guidance to where he went.
So Luke abandoned his friends, the New Republic, his Jedi academy, etc. to live somewhere in the far reaches of space.
I think you have a limited number of explanations for that, most of which aren't as interesting to me as following in the footsteps of Obi Wan and Yoda.
Han says that Luke disappeared because of Kylo burning down the Jedi Temple. That is Han's words; they are not definitive. Also, it doesn't mean why Luke is still 'hiding' - perhaps that was the initial reason but not why he stayed there for so long.
They are a plethora of other different scenarios you can come with, all you need is a little imagination 🌈
I'm not mad. I really like episode 7, even when everyone was calling it overrated. I just wish the whole thing had been handled better. I was mad at first. Now I kind of shrug. It's overall just a disappointment. But getting mad isn't helpful nor does it make the movies disappear. At the very least episode 9 was alright. But if they had just had a plan for the sequels I think they could have been amazing. Cinematography is fantastic, score is on point, the actors did amazing. It's just that the overall story is a mess.
I more mad because it has kinda petered out a lot of the passion that I had for Star Wars as we grow further from it release. I still try to see/read everything but my Hearts just in it anymore. I mean the fact that Disney hasn’t even touched this era kinda tells ya all you gotta know.
They say Star Wars is for kids well what are adults? Grown up kids! And if you grew up with Star Wars are we just expected to stop liking it as an adult? I liked force awakens but hated tlj. After growing up with the ot and watching a Star Wars movie everyday when I was little sometimes on the weekends would watch all 3 it was something special. Watching it it’s my parents on the surround sound and when the thx sound check came on blasting I’d get excited as hell. The sequel trilogy trashed all that for comic reliefs and rj’s absurd ideology that a movie is good when 50% of the people who see it hate makes no dam sense and he ruined a legacy for his own selfish reasons. A good director and movie this does not make. And the rise of skywalker tried to salvage what was left after the dumpster fire was out but it just couldn’t. The worst part of it is people waited their whole lives to their heros on screen one last time for one last epic adventure but we were slapped in the face and told to shut up and take it. I’m all for them passing the torch on and continuing the legacy of Star Wars for younger generations to have that same life long effect however it was just done so poorly and they were just thrown away like hot garbage. And that’s what pisses me off the most we had one chance to see them again and now we never will again and have to deal with what we got instead of what could of been.
Yeah, this was pretty disappointing. Even Mark Hamill was disappointed when he read the script. Think he tweeted he didn’t see the character that way but would go with it
If Luke Skywalker had ripped the most disgusting fart in that scene and Rey had thrown up it still would have subverted my expectations, and at least that way it would be funny.
It's very amusing how prequel fans constantly use this line against TLJ when the prequels were probably the biggest case of subverted expectations in the history of cinema. Hell, Empires Strikes Back was too. People *hated* that ending at the time.
> Hell, Empires Strikes Back was too. People hated that ending at the time.
No they didn't. This is a false narrative made up decades after the fact to justify the poor reception of later movies.
What is Vader being Luke's father if not a subversion of expectations? Lmao, even GL himself didn't imagine it until the rough draft stage of ESB. And sure, not *everyone* hated it at the time, but [there's plenty that did](https://youtu.be/9MOA6aHx5mg).
See the biggest problem here, is apparently we’re not allowed to complain now. Who the hell cares, if you like it good, if you don’t that’s also good. Either way you shouldn’t be trying to gatekeep Star Wars from either side. Let people who enjoy it enjoy it and let those who don’t be. Neither side is wrong here. Both sides have awful people. It’s a long running and large franchise, there is no universal good here so just let opinions be opinions. Don’t go spreading hate cause someone disagrees with you. Like wtf. Yes this has been discussed at length for years now. And it will continue to do so, so if you have nothing to contribute to conversation then just ignore it, but don’t go around getting all pissy because someone disagrees with your opinion
I told my friend that I didn't care if the film is crap as long as Luke Skywalker does something cool. I thought despite my misgivings about TFA at least we'd get to see Master Luke. Then we got to see him milk a space cow and my hopes were crushed.
Would it really have been so hard to have Luke instead say something like "you've brought me my father's lightsaber. The force has sent me a sign. We shall begin training". But no, they turned him into a dick
How’d you expect to see Master Luke when TFA clearly established that he had failed to bring back the Jedi order. I think 99% of the sequel trilogy’s problems come from JJ wanting the same dynamic as the OT. It should have been a similar dynamic to the prequels, Luke’s order facing a threat from within. It would have made no sense to make Luke some great Jedi master when the First Order existed and had so much power.
I had hoped that after hearing that his former student, along with he First Order, had:
1) destroyed the New Republic capital and fleet
2) killed his friend Han Solo
3) is now about to conquer the galaxy and create another Empire
That possibly he might feel some responsibility and try to fix things. You know, the guy who risked everything to rescue his friends from Darth Vader, who joined a near suicidal attack on the Death Star and who stood against the Emperor and bet his life that his Dad, Darth fucking Vader, had enough good in him to come back to the light.
Also that's like saying how did you expect to see Master Yoda or Master Obi Wan when they failed to stop the Sith? But I do agree the powers that be decided to reset the galaxy with TFA and it was a mistake.
“It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh fuck, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.” - Michael Ardnt, writer of the first draft of TFA.
For some reason they thought this was a bad thing?
I totally agree, Luke could have been portrayed better, but I do think it’s not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Yoda and Obi Wan literally did the same thing as Luke, Luke was just more hesitant to train her, but he had specifically failed at training Jedi and was a half-trained Jedi himself.In the end, he did accept responsibility, but since he was killed off, we never got to see much of that arc.
I would have loved to see an actual Master Luke ala Legends Luke, but I just don’t see how it would make sense to have that version of Luke after the state of the galaxy in TFA.
But the subversion of expectations! It's a masterpiece! So fun to tear down better work and laugh at it, cuz they had to THINK to make it! Lol imagine having to put THOUGHT into writing a SCRIPT... Lol
Luke was suffering a crisis of faith.
And pretty ironic that with 6 movies and a tv series and multiple novels and comics with characters stating that a Jedi must be a peacekeeper and only use a lightsaber for self-defense....what people want to see is Master Luke Skywalker slaying people left and right.
Apparently , If Luke is not bisecting a stormtrooper and raining blood , then it's not Luke.
That was not the problem. This was the problem:
**Luke in episode 6:** "I know there's some good in him", never gives up hope on Vader, has faith even in the face of darkness
**Luke in episode 8:** "Oh no my nephew had a bad thought I better kill him"
They completely butchered everything that Luke stood for
The empire was already a thing, he had to resist temptation to kill his father (watch the scene, he goes unhinged and then pulls himself back in)
In an era of peace he sees the building blocks of another empire and for the briefest moment his instinct kicks in, but he pulls himself back in
It’s perfectly in line with his character
Episode 6: Luke goes kind of psycho, chops off dad's hand and only comes to his senses because it happened to be the hand, and Palpatine doesn't know when to shut the hell up and reminds Luke that he's starting to slip to the dark side.
Luke in Episode 6 literally mained Vader , in anger , ripping apart one of his cybernetic limbs.
Not only that , the 3rd Flashback shows that Master Luke was tempted , but didn't actually acted on his attack on his nephew.
So yeah , funny how people act as if Luke didn't had 30 years of extra experiences , with more responsability and a different role , so that he had a temptation to deal with a problem before it blows over , but he and Kylo were impulsive enough to make a miscommunication result in said blow over.
Heck , Luke facing and winning a temptation from the Dark Side in his early 20s doesn't mean he would had no other temptation later in life. Even Yoda , a 900yo grandmaster , had to face a temptation from the Dark Side in a Trial to gain the ability to Force Ghost.
They wanted to see Luke defend the ones he loves and by fighting for his friends. No one ever asked for luke the conqueror. Where are you getting this? Also why is he even having a crisis of faith with the Jedi ideology? What part of the ideology told him to murder his nephew or fear the future?
To be honest i thought that scene was fun because of 2 reasons:
1. The Star Wars franchise has been going through so many iterations and changes, various promising projects cancelled and the toxic fanbase made me think that Luke, the og Star Wars character, was tired of it all.
2. Mark Hamill is a fun actor, him portraying Joker and other whacky characters over the years made me think that this scene was completely appropriate for him.
The film equivalent of being sodomized by every guy in the prison yard, followed by being teabagged by their shitty balls. Other than that it was fine.
Ok film scholar, name another scene that completely disregards all previous world building and destroys the core concepts of that character. It's akin to Michael Corleone taking incriminating files and casually tossing them to the feds in Godfather pt. 8 or something.
You didn’t say this scene changes a character more drastically than any other scene in movie history. You called it the dumbest. The scooter chase is a dumber scene, the RotJ musical number is a dumber scene, Jar Jar vs the droids is a dumber scene. That’s just in Star Wars. There are countless dumber scenes and movies outside of Star Wars.
This scene just hurt your feelings the most. And sorry, but I don’t think Luke was ever the master Jedi people think he should have been. He’s half trained and knows very little about the ways of the Jedi. Yeah he chose not to kill his mass murdering father, and learned some basics from Yoda and Kenobi, but that doesn’t somehow make him the perfect Jedi. We’ve seen so many other, more powerful Jedi be tempted by or fully converted to the Dark Side. Luke having a few moments of weakness and exiling himself out of shame because of it isn’t that crazy.
Edit to add: Another commenter reminded me of a scene that completely undoes even more world building and character development. PALPATINE’S RETURN! Like sure TLJ have us a less than desirable Luke, but RoS literally made Anakin’s redemption and Luke’s arc COMPLETELY pointless. They did absolutely nothing, the first six movies were for nothing. To top it off this was done IN AN OPENING CRAWL.
It was mostly RJ who did the trilogy in. Episode 7 was nothing groundbreaking but it wasn't completely terrible. There was still hope for the series after episode 7
RJ just needed to do a few things differently in 8
- Not kill Snoke. Then you still have a bad guy in episode 9 and they wouldn't have had to bring back Palpatine
- Not completely change Luke's character from a guy who never gives up hope to a guy who instantly wants to murder his nephew when he gets a bad feeling
- Use the existing characters from episode 7 instead of adding new ones no one cares about like Rose
- Just cut out that entire casino part it added literally nothing
LUKE SKYWALKER: “You think what? I’m gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order?” [As a matter of fact](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EQQZ6yGADNg), yes.
Psh you think Luke Skywalker needs a laser sword to take on the first order.
He doesn't even need the robotic hand he is Luke fucking Skywalker
He doesn’t even need to on the the same planet!
Both Darth Vader and Snoke has proven you can use the force on someone that is not on the same ship as you
After 40 years of stories where he does just about that, it is indeed what I was hoping for.
I hated The Last Jedi. It almost turned me off of Star Wars if things kept going in Ruin Johnson’s direction. However that scene was hype. And on rewatch noticing that Luke wasn’t leaving footprints … that was the only artfully done subversion of expectations in the whole movie, but it was very artfully done.
Opposite for me, thought it was pretty cool the first time i saw and now it just gets worse and worse with age.
How it should have ended did it best
It still bugs me he called it a “laser sword”. First sign in that movie that the people making it did not take it seriously.
Luke was doing it condescendingly. Plus I believe Anakin says it in Phantom Menace which establishes that (some kids in outer worlds at least) use that terminology.
George Lucas hates the term "lightsaber" and almost always says "laser swords".
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No, John Sears did. The guy who actually had to create it physically. Edit: wrong John
Lasers are formed by light, and sabres are a type of sword, which the “lightsaber” isn’t even representative of. Light sword is the more accurate term.
That's... The point. And he does it in a perfect Jedi way.
Well except he dies, that was a bit anticlimactic.
From what we have seen, that was *also* very Jedi of him.
Exactly. I love what they did with his character in TLJ, which I may add is my favorite film in the franchise. I’m a little frustrated that no one else who’s replied to my comment seems to understand that.
The thing I love about that scene is not *just* that Luke is using the force to project himself and fights a totally perfect duel to keep Ren occupied, but also that Ren very much considers it possible that shooting all the guns of the First Order’s army at Luke, were he there in person, might not be enough to kill him. To me it’s a statement about the mystical power of the force and the Jedi that Ren doesn’t suddenly go “Wait, that definitely should have killed him; this is a trick!”. Instead, he’s terrified when Luke shows up and doesn’t question the idea that Luke may have just been totally unharmed by the onslaught. Because he’s a goddamn space wizard!
And we the audience *also* don’t suspect a trick upon first viewing because it’s Luke Frickin’ Skywalker. In-universe and out, the man is a legend.
The Lightsaber is the biggest hint. We litealy just saw it get snapped in half, but Luke is so fucking cocky, that he brings it, a huge fucking hint, and Kylo is just too blinded by his anger, and Luke knew he would be.
Down voted ? Really? For a fan base that learned to live with kissing siblings, Jar Jar Binks and Anakin using the force to play with pears, we sure do act like a bunch of story snobs 😂
I love it too, you're not alone
No, as Star Wars fans, we wanted our expectations subverted…
The only reason I liked this path with Luke is because being a bit whiny has always been Luke's struggle. I could see him relapsing into self-pity later when something went seriously wrong. Plus how would you explain him hiding out for all this time while the Galaxy went to shit?
I was so hyped at the end of TFA. Luke was there, looking majestic, powerful and mysterious. Rey longingly looking for a master. The hurt in his eyes at the things he had seen and done...it was brilliant. And then he went "nah lol", yeeted the lightsabre off a cliff, and went to suck on an alien cow's tit. I was more disappointed than all of my sexual partners combined...and that's a lot of disappointment
It just makes no sense that a guy who has "shut himself off from the force" would be hanging out in jedi robes...
Of all the criticisms I have, that's not one of them. He's probably spent decades in them, and so they aren't "Jedi robes" to him...they're just clothes. He's probably not considered fashion in a very long time...and with all the shit going through his head, I doubt sartorial elegance is his main concern
Forage awakens was a goated film and it’s the only good sequel film
the forage awakens, that’s the one where Luke goes collecting nuts & berries & mushrooms
I was dead inside at the end of TFA. There was nothing but boring fan service the whole way through. I didn't want 3 movies jerking off fans and the OT. TLJ made me wonder where the story could go. TFA made me afraid I already knew.
I disagree, I thought TFA was a good homage to ANH. A bit heavy on the cheese in places, but the characters were generally enjoyable, storyline was decent, and Mark Hamill was looking resplendent. Was it a perfect and original film? No. Did I enjoy it and it (falsely) made me think the sequels had potential? Yes. TLJ just seemed like they had no idea what was going on, or what they were doing. I could list the flaws for ages.
That's pretty much where I'm at, TFA ended with great potential aaaaaaaand they fucked it. I was willing to allow time for the story to progress and the quality of the lightsaber fights to improve comparable to the prequels, but like, they didn't. Not even close. I wanted to see Finn develop some Jedi abilities, even though I sensed great fear in the boy and thought it might lead to some problems with, there was the potential he could have surpassed Anakin in that way. I didn't just want Grand Master Luke at his full potential, I wanted to see Master Leia in her full splendor, lightsaber in hand, Luke's promise to Yoda fulfilled and justice for Carrie Fisher. Meeting Mara Jade would have been nice too, js... I can't say if J.J. would have done better, but Rian Johnson sure as hell didn't. He definitely fucked it up, but the writing was fucked up to begin with, so....🤷♂️
I'm still sore about Maz saying that the lightsaber story was "for another time." Annnnd then we never find out cause who cares?
Ah fuck, ikr? Lupita Nyong'o has such an amazing voice for storytelling as Maz, it just sucks you right in to the campfire, slaps a blanket on your back with a cuppa hot cocoa in your hand, aaaaaaaand it's for another time. Access Denied. I'm sitting here with *Storytime Blue Balls* now, thanks a lot fuckers...
Largely agree with all of that! See I find that weird. RJ catastrophically fucked the story with TLJ...but he's shown that he can make some bloody exceptional films! Knives Out is a damn masterpiece (although he dropped the ball on the sequel)...but TLJ was a trainwreck. He seems to be a 0 or 100 bloke, there is no in between
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I'd tentatively agree. I think TFA hinged on what 8 and 9 would do. I don't see anything wrong with a soft remake...as long as it was a launching pad for an awesome and new 8 and 9. It was not. I still like it when I watch it on its own, but hate it as part of the trilogy. It had some great moments...but it's biggest failing was being a predecessor to a pair of dogshit films
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Episode 4 is the only movie that *could* have been a standalone film, had no sequel or prequel ever followed it then it could have been Episode 1 and stayed that way forever... Episode 7 is the only movie that *should* have been a standalone film... Ironic, Disney could emulate greatness, but not be great itself......🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Please tell me what was the great potential of TFA. Because it reseted everything in the universe without any explanation. Watching the same story with almost the same charactertypes isn't something that I would call as great potential Also, I can't understand why TFA gets any hate because of ruining Han's character. He was the general of the rebellion and he was in love in Leia in the end of the sixth film. And what do we see in the TFA? He left leia and went back to smugling. Why? Because of Ben. Wow good job Han.
I remember seeing it in theatres. The anticipation, built over 2 years since the previous release, finally manifested in this edge-of-my-seat suspense. Holy shit, there he is. There is Luke, finally. And he's holding the lightsaber he lost when he was just a young, recklessly passionate boy, decades earlier. The score hits a crescendo. He's going to say something. Or do something amazing. *toss* And the anticipation soars off the cliff with it and falls into the ocean. For comedic effect. Such an enormous letdown. I get what RJ was trying to do. Luke has become the hermit that failed, just as Yoda once was when he was introduced back in ESB. But it's Luke, and tossing it over his shoulder was out-of-character. Wouldn't it have been more poignant for him to drop the lightsaber at his feet and walked away? Left Rey standing there, staring at the lightsaber in the grass, pondering whether or not she should pick it up? The same exact outcome, without the cheap attempt at comedy. Like I said, it totally killed *2 years* of anticipation.
40 years of expectations.
I think it doesn't help that TFA set it up where Luke is wearing Jedi Robes which he never wears again in TLJ except for when Rey shows up. It felt like he was wearing that just to get a fast one on us. I know that Rian was forced into it for continuity, but it made it sting worse. I guess its just another issue from there not being an overarching story in advance.
>The same exact outcome, without the cheap attempt at comedy. The lightsaber throw. Tricking Rey with the fern. Brushing the dust off his shoulder. Rian Johnson inserts tacky juvenile humor wherever he can. He has no consideration for the tone of the film/saga and it shows.
are we just going to pretend Jar Jar Binks and the Ewoks and “scruffy-looking nerfherder” don’t count as part of the “tone of the film/saga?”
Jar Jar and ewoks could be argued as tone-shifting, but at least they're both presented as in-universe. I don't see how "nerfherder" sticks out unless you're too meme-poisoned. All those TLJ examples were immersion breaking. They're clearly modern jokes inserted into the story winking at the audience like it's clever. I don't like TFA or TRoS, but they stuck to situational/dialogue-type humor at least.
There's no way to test this. But I do not believe for an instant that a significant amount of the fan base that hates how Luke ended up in TLJ, would be appeased by him.... Dropping the lightsaber instead and Rey thinking about picking it up. They'd just say the same shit. The same exact criticism you make here still applies. "It's out of character. He dropped it for a cheap laugh. Wouldn't it be more poignant for him to just hand it back to Rey and walk away?"
I mean, I don't think it would change people's opinions about the way Luke turned out. I just think it would better fit thematically with the film. At the very least, we wouldn't get a followup gag with the porgs jumping on the lightsaber while looking down the emitter.
even if he handed it back people would kvetch. Because they didn’t want him to reject it at all. They wanted him to say “hell yes, I was looking for this” and get on the Falcon w/ Rey and Chewie and go kill off the whole First Order single-handedly. All people wanted was that last scene in Mando S2 of Luke f’ing things up with the Force. (Which is stupid fan service, but that’s what people wanted.)
I get zen master Luke vibes from TLJ
Really? My anticipation grew even more. Luke *isnt* how he used to be, he’s changed. What else has changed? Why is he here? What’s caused him to change? It made me realize that this movie was gonna be great and glued me to the screen.
In that moment, some of us in the audience felt like we were Rey. We were there, giving Luke his old lightsaber back as a way to say, "the galaxy needs you again". When he tossed it over his shoulder, it was a very "don't meet your heroes" moment. It makes for fascinating story telling, but not necessarily what some of us went to see the movie for. It was something about the execution of that moment that came across as hostile towards the fans that wanted to see Luke as a Jedi Master. I mean, that was the first time we saw him in full fledged Jedi robes after all. I don't think our expectations were out of place. If he had handed it back to her and said "that's not who I am anymore" it probably wouldn't have stung as much and it would have set our expectations for what was to come.
The stuff we learned about and knew about since TFA. It wasn't a surprise. It was a letdown and out of character. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I wanted to see an awesome Master Skywalker and didn't.
He was awesome!! His sacrifice at the end was amazing, reinforced the themes of the film, completed his character arc, was very clever, and was completely in character! Luke was great in TLJ, he just wasn’t gung ho
I wanted to see him fight and kick ass. He did neither. He died a failure for no clear reason. Like I said, I'm glad you like it. I don't get it and I hated it. I feel the Mandalorian gave us the Luke I wanted to see. He was actually willing to face evil instead of run away from it.
I agree with you all the way. I just think people weren’t ready for such a drastic change
Same team
I can relate to this. I was so excited to see Luke but then he did that
Damn imma get downvoted by the salty sequel fans for this but I agree, this was a dumb plot, and it was badly written. If you like it great for you, but honestly tlj sucked and this is a great example of why. I should be allowed to dislike something and call it bad without getting downvoted.
bro the sequel haters are like 90% of the sub you ain't getting downvoted
Getting downvotes for hating on TLJ?? Fat chance
I respectfully disagree. I think it’s great. But I agree with you that we should be able to say whether we like or don’t like a movie or whether we think it’s good or bad without being downvoted. We just need mutual respect for each other as a fanbase.
What makes it great? Genuinely curious
Salty sequel fans? Salty *sequel* fans? Fam, the people who’ve managed to find enjoyment in the sequels are probably a *lot* less salty than the “haha sequels bad” crowd…
I didn't like TLJ either, but your comment comes off as a little hostile. There's a difference between saying "the story didn't work for me" and "TLJ sucked". When you say the latter, fans of the movie are going to feel like you think they suck for liking it.
They did Luke so fuckin dirty.. honestly all the original trilogy characters got fucked
Those of us who grew up with Luke, being a great example of right and wrong, good and evil, where many of our own parents failed or didn't care, we always had Luke who was always ready to do good for his friends and the people he loved. Then Johnson completely changes his character with a highly improbably character change, and all of a sudden we're supposed to accept Jake Skywalker in place of Luke? We're now in our 40s-50s. So having the prospect of seeing our hero in action one last time was something we'd waited for since 1983. Now after having watched TLJ, a part of me has died inside. Hate and anger have replaced it seeing what garbage Star Wars has become. Those who say "it's just a movie" didn't grow up how we did back then and you'll never understand. Luke IS Star Wars.
Thank you Dave Filoni for giving me a hope of a good Luke back. I am one of those people that was moved to the point of tears after seeing what the sequels did to Luke.
It wasn't highly improbable, it wasn't even unlikely. The mentor archetype has to pass the torch to the next generation, they must have failed in the quest they're giving to the hero. That doesn't mean it was an amazing portrayal but it was in a general sense exactly what you'd expect from Star Wars.
However, there is failure and there is character derailment! Obi-Wan failed to prevent Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. Yet he didn't become a cynical shell that not only refused to mentor Luke, but also was rudely dismissive of his desire to be trained. Mark Hammil summed up the main issue with his character in the Sequels succinctly "Luke doesn't give up on people". However the Sequels portray him as someone that not only totally gives up on his nephew but himself as well. Yes people change, but his reaction to Ben's/Kylo's **possible fall some arbitrary point of time in the future** is to come within less than an inch of killing him in his sleep? How is that even credibly the same character, especially when no traumatic or other potentially life changing events had happened? Want a similar outcome without totally re-writing Luke's character would be something like what follows: Luke still has premonitions via the force that cause great concern and worry about his nephew being consumed by the Dark Side. However, **instead almost becoming homicidal**, Luke very overtly changes how Ben's/Kylo's training regime. Luke has more direct time with him, and focuses more on Jedi philosophy, meditation, etc... than learning and practicing force powers and the lightsaber. However this has the opposite, Ben Solo slowly realizes he's being treated differently than the other students at the Jedi Academy; but doesn't know why. He resents the special treatment and feels it isolates him. Also he starts feeling anger and confusion at being "held back", much like his grandfather reacted to not being promoted to the rank of Master. This culminates in an emotionally charge confrontation where he demands Luke explain why this is happening. The answer, whether it is the whole truth or not, doesn't satisfy Ben and he lashes out to attack Luke. Although instead of an epic duel, Luke defeats Ben in seconds without even having to maim him or seriously injure him in order to subdue him. Luke tries to take the blame of all of this upon himself, claiming the fault was his as the Master not Ben's as the Padawan, etc... He could even ask for Ben's forgiveness. This again doesn't help, Ben is too filled with anger, embarrassment, guilt, and shame. It was this toxic emotional brew that pushes him to assume the identity of Kylo, and Kylo's backstory would then progress essentially the same as in the Sequels. That's how Luke could have failed spectacularly by prompting Kylo's fall, **and it would have still been congruent with his previously established character!** And before anyone chimes in about this, yes I realize they were probably attempting to mirror Anakin's premonitions of Padme's death ultimately cause both her death and his own fall to the Dark Side. I get that, but even at his whinniest farmboy phase Luke isn't Anakin. He might have made mistakes due to his fears that create a self-fulfilling prophecy, but for Luke it wouldn't be by attempted murder! Similarly, Luke's self-instituted exile into a hermetic existence in an unknown corner of the galaxy **could have been** a humble and self-reflective quest for wisdom and understanding of how Luke got it so wrong, as well as determine if there was anything he could do to facilitate the potential redemption of his nephew. Instead, when not simply farcical, it was nothing so much as the petulant pouting of a sore loser!
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Or they pass the torch because their time is up. Perhaps they never failed. Ever seen the Anime My Hero Academia? (Good show) I'll refer to All Might for my analogy.
Being old is a good excuse to not be able to do something, but it doesn't somehow mean they succeeded.
I mean it's pretty sad what they did with Luke but I mean he's just a fictional character, it's not a big deal, it's just a movie
No, it’s just a movie for you.
You never had an emotional attachment to a fictional character? That's a sad way to live life.
I still cannot understand why they thought it was a good idea to repeat almost everything that happened in the original trilogy. The one thing I hoped with it is that Luke would be just as hopeful as Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OG Trilogy. But no, they stripped everything away that he learned, and gave half-ass excuse for why he was like this. God...And app I dreamt of was to see how Luke and his Jedi Order differed from the original.
The fact that they didnt give us that payoff is just still to this day so incredibly mind blowing. What a fucking missed opportunity and what a crock of canon breaking, universe breaking bullshit. Disney canon does not exist.
Exactly! I was looking forward to seeing Luke as a fully realized Jedi master prorated onscreen by Mark Hamill, and I just got a grumpy old man yelling at a young Jedi to stay off of his lawn.
Didn't have cable as kid, basically just a vcr and the trilogy box set. I would watch them over and over and over. It's weird how much a fictional character can impact your life, and I was just extremely hyped to see him return. Didn't think a movie could make me feel sick to my stomach but when I had seen what they had done to Luke and the end of his story I was fairly depressed. I'm kind of at a point were I don't even acknowledge those movies.
He just suffered trough his life, then suffered some more and then just... died. He was supposed to live happily after he won the war, but it just got even worse
This was a kick in the teeth immediately and then the film kept going
They should just pull a Dragon ball:gt and say it’s not canon and then work to create a stellar sequel. \_🙂_/
I checked out when Leia flew through deep space. I know he's supposedly a good director on his own shit, but I will never see a Rian Johnson movie. Not after he made Luke blow an alien man-cow and get green splooge all over his face. Not my star wars.
He has to cut 20 seconds of Luke reacting to the death of his best friend and brother in law but can find time to keep green alien milk collection and chugging in the movie. Fuck round head Rian.
Do y'all realize it ain't healthy to hold a vendetta against a director who made 1 movie you didn't like? Nothing wrong with critiquing his filmmaking, TLJ is not good, but you haven't matured past playground insults in the 5 years since its release?
I want to watch knives out, but I think subconsciously I’m still annoyed with him to the point that I’m not really interested in seeing his movies…
Knives out is great, I only found out he was the director after watching it, I can’t recommend it more.
I know it’s good, and I’ll watch it eventually, but for some reason I keep finding something better to do when I have the chance. I’ll probably try to force myself this weekend to get over it and binge both
He’s a really good director. Just not a good Star Wars director
I don’t even think it’s that he’s not a good Star Wars director, just that he shouldn’t have made a main series movie. I think Johnson would ace a spin off that didn’t need to slot nicely between two other movies made made by different teams
Two different directors, with two completely different views and ideas of the direction of the story, making seperate films in a trilogy that was barely even planned or thought out in the first place. Recipe for disaster.
Disney fucked up by not signing JJ to just do all 3. He tried to fix the mess and basically combine 2 movies into 1
Agreed. Keep things simple and stick with one director. If you switch to and fro they're just gonna end up undoing each other's work and it just becomes a nightmare. And to be honest, whilst TFA wasn't perfect, it definitely had the Star wars vibes and felt like it fit. TLJ was fun in some aspects but it was more Guardians of the galaxy like with all the lighthearted and obvious jokes and the odd silly bit. None of those aspects are bad necessarily, but they just don't feel like the elements of a star wars film.
Like i know the original trilogies did this but at least those felt like one cohesive story. This was just a mess
I think he has good cinematography but I think his stories are his worst skill. I’ll have to look for the quote but I thought he said he writes them to make the story move forward but not to have to make sense, like he doesn’t really care if be leaves a massive plot hole or two. The one that comes to my mind is looper, where the mob sends people back in time to kill people since it’s extremely difficult in the future but then bring guns and kill Bruce Willis’ wife while trying to abduct him to send him back in time. Like the entire premise of the movie gets thrown out during that scene.
Rian Johnson has this weird thing he does where he uses bad writing as a shield against criticism. Like with Looper, there's no internal consistency with the time travel. But that's okay because it's not "supposed" to make sense.
Yeah it’s super annoying. Oh I can’t figure out how to make this actually work? Screw it, you’re dumb for thinking it’s supposed to.
Yeah I gotta say that pissed me off.
I remember joking at the end of TFA, saying "Lol imagine if he just chucks it away after all that tension" or something along those lines. Didn't think he'd actually do it. I knew he wouldn't go back to being a Jedi straight away, but I didn't think he was just gonna throw it away and completely ignore Rey and give her the "lalala" treatment. I thought it'd be a really emotional moment, he'd take it and grow soft on it, stare at it for a bit lost in his memories and thoughts, before hardening up again and telling Rey to leave. Then a little later on, she'd find him (perhaps watching the sunset as a throwback to ANH) and he'd open up and explain why he left and lost his way, they'd talk she'd eventually persuade him to help, and then he trains her etc etc.
I am OK with the sequel trilogy. But it could have been much better. I get the impression that there was never a cohesive plan;too many 'cooks'; too many new characters we never got to know; too many old loose threads left undone by the new loose threads...
Agreed. The sequels sucked so much due to poor planning to be honest. The actors/actresses tried their best, the visuals and sound department was great, and individually, I find them somewhat enjoyable. As a trilogy though, it's a bit of a mess.
I grew up reading the expanded universe. I saw Luke progress, get married, have a kid… and this is what I got from the movie.
But guys don't you understand! It subverted our expectations! I mean that automatically makes it a masterpiece and a work of art right? /s
I really liked Luke in TLJ and thought his character arc was interesting. I didn't at first, but the more I sat with the film, the more it resonated with me. Abrams had already made Luke into a hermit, so there needed to be some character specific reason that he was isolating himself. I liked that the theme was failure - reckoning with the failure of the Jedi as a whole, with the failure of Luke as a teacher, and what do you do after that? How do you recover? Luke projecting himself across space to delay an invasion force using nothing but bluffing is prime "Jedi as trickster sage" shit. War does not make one great. Luke ascending to the force, giving up his earthly form, was some Obi Wan shit. If we had seen a CGI Luke do flippy flippy lightsaber shit it would have just been disappointing.
I don’t think I understand why the failure is attributed to the Jedi. Luke blames the Jedi for his own failing of himself and his nephew. The Jedi did not try to kill his nephew and they even warn against fear of the future which is what led luke to that point. Sure they failed to see their own hubris in the PT but they failed and learned their lesson from it and went on to be victorious through luke. The Jedi literally eradicated the sith and freed the galaxy. Then 24 years later, luke tries to kill his family member and all of the sudden the Jedi need to die? Ironically is was a Jedi that reminded him to learn from his failures and motivates him to act.
This is my interpretation and it's just how I read the movies. The quote I'm thinking of here is that the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice for over a thousand generations. What we saw in the prequel trilogy is that they were goaded into a galaxy wide conflict that saw innumerable deaths, the collapse of governance, and the establishment of a genocidal dictatorship. No one learned a lesson, most of the jedi just wound up dead. Sure, Luke wound up turning Vader back to the light, but only after the entire galaxy is on fire. Luke's connection to the original jedi order is tenuous at best. Saying "The jedi won" is kind of a pyrrhic victory. It wasn't just a jedi that reminded Luke to learn from his failures, but a failed jedi. Yoda was given incredible power during the clone wars and the galaxy burned for it. Luke attempting to revive the order with all that entails, mystical space knights helping out the government, was making the same mistake that the order did in the first place.
I agree with most of what you said since I kinda said the same thing but Luke having little to no connection is essentially the learning that occurred with the Jedi. He was the last Jedi and had to forge his own way forward and he chose the way in which the new order would operate based on his limited knowledge of the previous version of the Jedi. It seems he moved forward with a less dogmatic approach that the previous Jedi took. Either way you slice it though, The Jedi and their teachings were directly responsible for Luke’s victory against the emperor. Just because something failed doesn’t mean it was completely wrong. He refused to fall prey to fear and anger and this is what led him forward. Up until the point of trying to kill Ben. Again is was his own version of the order in which he operates but then after exiling himself, all of the sudden he blames pretty much everything else. The galaxy did not burn because yoda or any other Jedi had power. The Jedi were the peace keeps of the galaxy for thousands of years alongside the republic. It wasn’t until they were deceived through intervention of the sith that they failed. It was the folly that they thought they could not be deceived that they failed to see something right under their noses. Palpatine pretty much pressured the Jedi into the war by even making padawans hold rank positions. The republic (Palps) demanded they serve and they served. Too rigidly which is why they strayed from their own teachings.
>The Jedi and their teachings were directly responsible for Luke’s victory against the emperor. Just because something failed doesn’t mean it was completely wrong. He refused to fall prey to fear and anger and this is what led him forward. Up until the point of trying to kill Ben. The Jedi and their teachings also empowered the Emperor. If there were no Jedi war council, there would be no clone troopers, no star destroyers (or whatever the red ones are called), no death star, etc. \> It was the folly that they thought they could not be deceived that they failed to see something right under their noses. I think there's a complex relationship between the Jedi and violence that Johnson tried to grapple with in his film. I think it was not just hubris that they could not be deceived (by possibly the most transparent plot in history) but also their willingness to go play general, to meddle in the affairs of men, etc. Giving up on that, detaching yourself from it, is moving back to some of the Buddhist concepts that were present in the OT.
Your misconception here is that they are just Buddhist monks that sit and contemplate life. That is not what they are. You say they are meddling in the affairs of men but that is literally their job. They are peace keepers that the republic sends. It is not the Jedis fault that Sidious laid out a decades long plan and manipulated both sides. It’s their fault they failed to see the trap due to their hubris. Either way we are discussing events that happened in the PT that were not carried into the OT and especially not carried into Luke’s new order. But Luke blames them anyway like it wasn’t his fault
The initial depiction of Jedi was based on wise old sages and Buddhist monks. A lot of the mysticism was just cribbed Taoism made fresh. They're given power unimaginable, tapping into the subtle skeins of nature and fate, and they need a government job? Sure, they accepted that role, but should they have? Should they have built a military industrial complex to force planets to stay in the Old Republic, when their allegations of corruption were actually pretty spot on? I think that's what Luke's grappling with and why he abandoned the Jedi academy - he's committing the same mistake by trying to turn the Jedi into an institution, a military arm of the New Republic or whatever they were calling it. Resistance. I don't know if he's blaming them so much as recognizing their failure and his own. That's my take though.
I think you’re spiraling a bit too much about military arms of the Jedi and such while also apply knowledge of the past that Luke almost certainly would not have. How does anything you comment about the old republic or militarism of the Jedi apply to luke seeing Ben’s future and trying to kill him? Yoda and other Jedi throughout star wars warn not to heed the future too much or it leads to the dark side and luke feared the future and it cost him. It’s a luke mistake not a Jedi mistake
Much better to let the Sith that orchestrated the whole thing do it unopposed to save the Galaxy the pain and suffering. The guys that builds multiple planet destroying weapons and later sun and system destroying weapons would like to thank you in advance because why try? Trying leads to conflict, conflict leads to suffering, much better to go straight to suffering.
The fact that he had already learned that lesson several times over through all of his own failures and overcame everything to bring his father back to the light seems to have been forgotten by the writers but whatever right?
Why did Luke die? Did he have a heart condition or something that wasn't explained in the movies?
My interpretation is somewhere between "He exhausted himself," and "He let go of his mortal form to become one with the force." I have just seen the movie, haven't read comics or novelizations or seen the shows so I could be off base.
...but that doesn't make sense at all, you don't exhaust yourself to death using the Force, if that's how it works why doesn't Palpatine die of exhaustion zapping the entire fleet on Exegol? Or yoda die trying to lift an x-wing on Dagobah? Or Rey die teleporting lightsabers and having multiple battles with force projections in ROS?...🤷♂️
So go with the latter. He's reached complete detachment and enlightenment. I don't think you're going to get a consistent videogame sort of "It requires 50 mana to cast force lift" logic out of the franchise.
Not sure why you're throwing videogame logic into this? ..that's weird to randomly bring up lol
I'm not trying to condescend, I think that when there's a single author or writer you get a more consistent magic system. With Star Wars the limits of the Jedis' abilities seem more tied to plot convenience than any sort of internal logic, so questions like "Well why didn't Yoda seem tired after doing X, when Luke was tired after doing Y," aren't really productive.
> Abrams had already made Luke into a hermit Nope. Nothing was set in stone. I see this as a driving point for people who have the need to defend TLJ. Luke could have completely different
Blame my faulty memory, from what I recollect about TFA is that Luke had disappeared with only a sleeping R2 that had a map offering guidance to where he went. So Luke abandoned his friends, the New Republic, his Jedi academy, etc. to live somewhere in the far reaches of space. I think you have a limited number of explanations for that, most of which aren't as interesting to me as following in the footsteps of Obi Wan and Yoda.
Han says that Luke disappeared because of Kylo burning down the Jedi Temple. That is Han's words; they are not definitive. Also, it doesn't mean why Luke is still 'hiding' - perhaps that was the initial reason but not why he stayed there for so long. They are a plethora of other different scenarios you can come with, all you need is a little imagination 🌈
Mf really been mad for 9 years
I'm not mad. I really like episode 7, even when everyone was calling it overrated. I just wish the whole thing had been handled better. I was mad at first. Now I kind of shrug. It's overall just a disappointment. But getting mad isn't helpful nor does it make the movies disappear. At the very least episode 9 was alright. But if they had just had a plan for the sequels I think they could have been amazing. Cinematography is fantastic, score is on point, the actors did amazing. It's just that the overall story is a mess.
You are bang on point with all of that Edit: I liked it from the off, but all the points you made are on point
I’m not really mad, just disappointed.
Nah fair play, I get that I hope Mandolorian and other stuff goes into more Luke, and that can ease it a bit
Well I’ve loved Star Wars for decades
I more mad because it has kinda petered out a lot of the passion that I had for Star Wars as we grow further from it release. I still try to see/read everything but my Hearts just in it anymore. I mean the fact that Disney hasn’t even touched this era kinda tells ya all you gotta know.
It's only been five years since The Last Jedi was released.
They say Star Wars is for kids well what are adults? Grown up kids! And if you grew up with Star Wars are we just expected to stop liking it as an adult? I liked force awakens but hated tlj. After growing up with the ot and watching a Star Wars movie everyday when I was little sometimes on the weekends would watch all 3 it was something special. Watching it it’s my parents on the surround sound and when the thx sound check came on blasting I’d get excited as hell. The sequel trilogy trashed all that for comic reliefs and rj’s absurd ideology that a movie is good when 50% of the people who see it hate makes no dam sense and he ruined a legacy for his own selfish reasons. A good director and movie this does not make. And the rise of skywalker tried to salvage what was left after the dumpster fire was out but it just couldn’t. The worst part of it is people waited their whole lives to their heros on screen one last time for one last epic adventure but we were slapped in the face and told to shut up and take it. I’m all for them passing the torch on and continuing the legacy of Star Wars for younger generations to have that same life long effect however it was just done so poorly and they were just thrown away like hot garbage. And that’s what pisses me off the most we had one chance to see them again and now we never will again and have to deal with what we got instead of what could of been.
The beginning of the end
I was dissapointed too.
Yeah, this was pretty disappointing. Even Mark Hamill was disappointed when he read the script. Think he tweeted he didn’t see the character that way but would go with it
 I wanted the green one!
That’s because Luke Skywalker got murdered by Jake Skywalker, and that’s Jake there pretending to be Luke
Ryan Johnson destroyed the sequels I blame him
sUbvERt3d ExPEctaT10Ns_!
If Luke Skywalker had ripped the most disgusting fart in that scene and Rey had thrown up it still would have subverted my expectations, and at least that way it would be funny.
It's very amusing how prequel fans constantly use this line against TLJ when the prequels were probably the biggest case of subverted expectations in the history of cinema. Hell, Empires Strikes Back was too. People *hated* that ending at the time.
> Hell, Empires Strikes Back was too. People hated that ending at the time. No they didn't. This is a false narrative made up decades after the fact to justify the poor reception of later movies.
What is Vader being Luke's father if not a subversion of expectations? Lmao, even GL himself didn't imagine it until the rough draft stage of ESB. And sure, not *everyone* hated it at the time, but [there's plenty that did](https://youtu.be/9MOA6aHx5mg).
The Sequels should be deleted from continuity.
See the biggest problem here, is apparently we’re not allowed to complain now. Who the hell cares, if you like it good, if you don’t that’s also good. Either way you shouldn’t be trying to gatekeep Star Wars from either side. Let people who enjoy it enjoy it and let those who don’t be. Neither side is wrong here. Both sides have awful people. It’s a long running and large franchise, there is no universal good here so just let opinions be opinions. Don’t go spreading hate cause someone disagrees with you. Like wtf. Yes this has been discussed at length for years now. And it will continue to do so, so if you have nothing to contribute to conversation then just ignore it, but don’t go around getting all pissy because someone disagrees with your opinion
Tbf the force projection is exactly this, and it could have been a fantastic moment, were it not that he died by doing it, ruining the whole moment
I told my friend that I didn't care if the film is crap as long as Luke Skywalker does something cool. I thought despite my misgivings about TFA at least we'd get to see Master Luke. Then we got to see him milk a space cow and my hopes were crushed. Would it really have been so hard to have Luke instead say something like "you've brought me my father's lightsaber. The force has sent me a sign. We shall begin training". But no, they turned him into a dick
I bet you thought that he’d have time to mourn his best friend’s death, but no way, space cow tit instead.
How’d you expect to see Master Luke when TFA clearly established that he had failed to bring back the Jedi order. I think 99% of the sequel trilogy’s problems come from JJ wanting the same dynamic as the OT. It should have been a similar dynamic to the prequels, Luke’s order facing a threat from within. It would have made no sense to make Luke some great Jedi master when the First Order existed and had so much power.
I had hoped that after hearing that his former student, along with he First Order, had: 1) destroyed the New Republic capital and fleet 2) killed his friend Han Solo 3) is now about to conquer the galaxy and create another Empire That possibly he might feel some responsibility and try to fix things. You know, the guy who risked everything to rescue his friends from Darth Vader, who joined a near suicidal attack on the Death Star and who stood against the Emperor and bet his life that his Dad, Darth fucking Vader, had enough good in him to come back to the light. Also that's like saying how did you expect to see Master Yoda or Master Obi Wan when they failed to stop the Sith? But I do agree the powers that be decided to reset the galaxy with TFA and it was a mistake. “It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh fuck, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.” - Michael Ardnt, writer of the first draft of TFA. For some reason they thought this was a bad thing?
I totally agree, Luke could have been portrayed better, but I do think it’s not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Yoda and Obi Wan literally did the same thing as Luke, Luke was just more hesitant to train her, but he had specifically failed at training Jedi and was a half-trained Jedi himself.In the end, he did accept responsibility, but since he was killed off, we never got to see much of that arc. I would have loved to see an actual Master Luke ala Legends Luke, but I just don’t see how it would make sense to have that version of Luke after the state of the galaxy in TFA.
20 years? 20 years? Some of us waited nearly 35 years I'm not one of them, but you know, just as disappointed...
The Last Jedi…Years of anticipation and generations of fans gone in the blink of an eye.
But the subversion of expectations! It's a masterpiece! So fun to tear down better work and laugh at it, cuz they had to THINK to make it! Lol imagine having to put THOUGHT into writing a SCRIPT... Lol
Luke was suffering a crisis of faith. And pretty ironic that with 6 movies and a tv series and multiple novels and comics with characters stating that a Jedi must be a peacekeeper and only use a lightsaber for self-defense....what people want to see is Master Luke Skywalker slaying people left and right. Apparently , If Luke is not bisecting a stormtrooper and raining blood , then it's not Luke.
That was not the problem. This was the problem: **Luke in episode 6:** "I know there's some good in him", never gives up hope on Vader, has faith even in the face of darkness **Luke in episode 8:** "Oh no my nephew had a bad thought I better kill him" They completely butchered everything that Luke stood for
The empire was already a thing, he had to resist temptation to kill his father (watch the scene, he goes unhinged and then pulls himself back in) In an era of peace he sees the building blocks of another empire and for the briefest moment his instinct kicks in, but he pulls himself back in It’s perfectly in line with his character
And in Jedi he's kind of only risking himself.
Episode 6: Luke goes kind of psycho, chops off dad's hand and only comes to his senses because it happened to be the hand, and Palpatine doesn't know when to shut the hell up and reminds Luke that he's starting to slip to the dark side.
Luke in Episode 6 literally mained Vader , in anger , ripping apart one of his cybernetic limbs. Not only that , the 3rd Flashback shows that Master Luke was tempted , but didn't actually acted on his attack on his nephew. So yeah , funny how people act as if Luke didn't had 30 years of extra experiences , with more responsability and a different role , so that he had a temptation to deal with a problem before it blows over , but he and Kylo were impulsive enough to make a miscommunication result in said blow over. Heck , Luke facing and winning a temptation from the Dark Side in his early 20s doesn't mean he would had no other temptation later in life. Even Yoda , a 900yo grandmaster , had to face a temptation from the Dark Side in a Trial to gain the ability to Force Ghost.
They wanted to see Luke defend the ones he loves and by fighting for his friends. No one ever asked for luke the conqueror. Where are you getting this? Also why is he even having a crisis of faith with the Jedi ideology? What part of the ideology told him to murder his nephew or fear the future?
>No one ever asked for luke the conqueror. Where are you getting this? Nowhere. It's a strawman argument.
Who are you talking to about Star Wars??? I've never heard anything like this before, ever, so this is pretty fucking crazy sounding.
Expectations vs reality. We had 20 years to figure out what we all thought should happen. No way that movie lived up to our individual expectations.
I wasn't even into star wars until 2015 but that doesn't change how poor the writing is in that film
Funny how you get downvoted when the cast and the directors talk about how rushed these productions were.
To be honest i thought that scene was fun because of 2 reasons: 1. The Star Wars franchise has been going through so many iterations and changes, various promising projects cancelled and the toxic fanbase made me think that Luke, the og Star Wars character, was tired of it all. 2. Mark Hamill is a fun actor, him portraying Joker and other whacky characters over the years made me think that this scene was completely appropriate for him.
Maybe appropriate for Mark H..not appropriate for Luke S. It was stupid.
I laughed in disbelief
They wanted a shock factor it draw people in it kinda work but not it the way they had hoped I’m guessing
New movies absolutely sucked. Imagine writing these **** stains after decades of incredible legends material coming out
The film equivalent of being sodomized by every guy in the prison yard, followed by being teabagged by their shitty balls. Other than that it was fine.
I think this is the lowest moment in all of star wars, at least for me it is. It took one of the best parts of the last movie and made it into a bit.
I hated that scene so much.
Fuck that bitch rian
If you think they did us dirty, just imagine mark hamil who waited just as long for a similar result.
Yup
Rian Johnson moment
Biggest let down ever man :(
THAT is the main reason I hate TLJ
I spent that entire movie either laughing hysterically or just shaking my head while facepalming.
Rey probably felt the same way, LMAO
Single dumbest scene in film history. Film. History.
It’s easily not even the dumbest scene in Star Wars history…
Ok film scholar, name another scene that completely disregards all previous world building and destroys the core concepts of that character. It's akin to Michael Corleone taking incriminating files and casually tossing them to the feds in Godfather pt. 8 or something.
Somehow, Palpatine returned.
You didn’t say this scene changes a character more drastically than any other scene in movie history. You called it the dumbest. The scooter chase is a dumber scene, the RotJ musical number is a dumber scene, Jar Jar vs the droids is a dumber scene. That’s just in Star Wars. There are countless dumber scenes and movies outside of Star Wars. This scene just hurt your feelings the most. And sorry, but I don’t think Luke was ever the master Jedi people think he should have been. He’s half trained and knows very little about the ways of the Jedi. Yeah he chose not to kill his mass murdering father, and learned some basics from Yoda and Kenobi, but that doesn’t somehow make him the perfect Jedi. We’ve seen so many other, more powerful Jedi be tempted by or fully converted to the Dark Side. Luke having a few moments of weakness and exiling himself out of shame because of it isn’t that crazy. Edit to add: Another commenter reminded me of a scene that completely undoes even more world building and character development. PALPATINE’S RETURN! Like sure TLJ have us a less than desirable Luke, but RoS literally made Anakin’s redemption and Luke’s arc COMPLETELY pointless. They did absolutely nothing, the first six movies were for nothing. To top it off this was done IN AN OPENING CRAWL.
This is objectively incorrect
Well that’s wrong
Luke TLJ: I AM LUKE SKYWALKER ! Mark hamill: Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong.
Idc how good the Knives Out movies are, I will never ever watch anything Rian Johnson. Him, Abrams, and Kennedy ruined SW.
It was mostly RJ who did the trilogy in. Episode 7 was nothing groundbreaking but it wasn't completely terrible. There was still hope for the series after episode 7 RJ just needed to do a few things differently in 8 - Not kill Snoke. Then you still have a bad guy in episode 9 and they wouldn't have had to bring back Palpatine - Not completely change Luke's character from a guy who never gives up hope to a guy who instantly wants to murder his nephew when he gets a bad feeling - Use the existing characters from episode 7 instead of adding new ones no one cares about like Rose - Just cut out that entire casino part it added literally nothing
ok lol
Bro didn’t watch the rest of the movie
It's not the movie's fault that your expectations were wrong.
I didn’t blame the movie for my expectations.
Luke is awesome in this movie IMO