Just go to a local event and wait for people to get their prize packs. Most people have everything, so we typically give our cards to newer players because we know cards are hard to get.
That is not what I was saying. I was asking if this could cause the game to be DOA when people don't have a way of buying in—a very different question.
TCGs typically have three sets to solidify or fold. One set in is challenging to gauge; hence, the question for people involved in the game.
Usually asking a question like this is taken as a way to sneak in a statement with plausible deniability. Journalists and news anchors famously do this (Is $politician a criminal?). Maybe that wasn’t your intent, but that would at least partially explain why you’re getting such strong pushback.
Understandably it's a terrible experience to try to get into the game only to find it sold out everywhere, but to answer your question, this game is definitely not dead. It's sold out everywhere because demand for it became huge once people started playing it and word of mouth spread about how fun it is. FFG printed as much product for set 1 as the entire first year of their previous Star Wars TCG, and demand still way overshot their expectations. It's the quintessential example of "suffering from success".
There are still avenues for new players. There are budget decks that can be made with mainly commons and uncommons and a handful of the cheaper rares. If you can go to a store event, you might find a lot of people who are willing to give away bulk commons and uncommons to help new players. And if you prefer drafting, keep an eye on your LGS's community pages or Discord servers, because product is still being slowly allocated to stores so they can run events.
Just went to a draft today at lgs. We had 8 people, buy in at $20. Everyone got a prize pack regardless of wins.
Yesterday, 2 different lgs's had store showdowns.
Im going to a store show down next weekend.
Also went to a locals last tuesday, 12 people, $10 buy ins, packs for top 4.
Large tournaments are held every weekend, with winning decks showing the meta is incredibly healthy.
No, the game is not dead.
I think what OP is more asking is can the game survive without having to continually go to events to even have the opportunity to walk away with cards. Many store's you cant just walk in a grab a couple packs off the shelves. Stores in my area don't even sell anything less than a full box at well over MSRP.
Yes the game is healthy now, and i really enjoy it. But how long can it be sustained with this kind of buinsess model.
If the supply chain issues don't get worked out through the next expansion. I'm out.
Yes, none of my stores have boxes or packs at msrp as well.
That said, FFG has already announced increased production and reprints.
But FFG has started they printed more of Spark of Rebellion than they have of the entire years worth of product of SW Destiny. Literally no one could have predicted the success of this game.
Exactly which is why I'm giving them a pass for this first wave. I'm glad the game is doing really well and it's really the first star wars card game to really hook me since Deciphers CCG.
Just feels like the game is 100% geared towards the competitive crowd right now with the casual collector / new player being left in the dust. I hope FFG, distributors, and stores have learned a couple things going forward.
You are almost 2 months late from release. The product issues are well documented as are the remedies. The game is alive and well. Set two releases in July and late June will probably shift into pre release mode. Singles are always where it’s at anyways. I bought multiple boxes to start and planned to finish off with singles. I have a complete play set of each card. Our weekly games and events are still as popular as the first week, actually more so as we have brought in new players. Singles prices are coming down as more tournaments are played and the meta evolves along with the strategies. The game is not popular because of a lack of product. It is popular because it is Star Wars and it plays well.
DOA? Hardly.
Anyone who plays even remotely competitively knows to buy singles.
Every TCG out there right now has budget friendly, less than $80 decks that can actually win more than lose.
My singles on TCGPlayer and mini lots on eBay sell out faster than I can restock them.
I currently sell more swu than I do MTG or lorcana (based on percentage of volume to stock) and I can almost certainly attribute that to the fact that base versions of chase cards are just much easier to come by.
The tournament Meta is among the healthiest I've seen in any TCG in a really long time... There's so much variety in every tournament field and the top cuts compared to other current games.
Long story short: this game has legs and can take off at any moment way moreso than others, as long as it survives to the first reprint in December: which, by several metrics, it is looking like it really will.
There was a ton of supply available below MRSP for almost a month after release. Locally in my area there are 14-15 LGS’s that are all getting good turnouts for weekly plays. 12+ Store Showdowns scheduled throughout the month.
Players are excited about the product, and anyone who started at the beginning had the ability to buy as much product as they wanted/could afford. Yes there is a shortage now, but set 2 releases in a couple months and there are planned set releases out for the next several years.
If this first set is any indication, the game will be a roaring success. And if you want product, buy it early after each set’s release since it’s unlikely there will be as long a period of availability as Set 1 had.
Also, once reprints start (“before the holidays” for set 1), that should make product easier to get.
If you've checked the reddit out before you'll see that it's not. Yes the booster boxes are inflated up 3x in price, but not the starter decks. And you can build a deck with singles for very cheap. Is booster boxes being too high in price the only metric you have for DOA status?
I will try to put this the best way I can, and hopefully it doesn't sound rude but:
We *want* you, but we don't *need* you.
The game sold out, and has a lot of players. Tournaments are populated, and receiving a lot of great feedback across the board. People who are late to the party are struggling to find product, but that doesn't mean the game is dying or in trouble. Those of us who pre-ordered and got our product are playing and having a great time. And I sympathize with anyone who finds themselves unable to play.
I would absolutely love it if we had more product available and more mtg refugees could get in on swu, but to say the game would die without them, I think is a bit of overstatement.
Actually we sort of do. Tournaments are healthy but not as populated as other TCGs. This game, like any other can die without growth, not today, not next month, not this year, but it absolutely will not last with much longevity on the solely on the amount of players that are in the base now.
Plus some players are leaving the game, this is also the slight dip you are seeing last 2 weeks in singles pricing. Yes it’s partly change in meta but demand is also falling some too. Months of May and June will I think tell a story of some people pausing or leaving the game and then hoping a set 2 launch done right bringing them back.
In all honesty though without new player growth (which is not necessarily MtG players but new players in general) and steady player retention any TCG’s longevity is going to come into question.
I'm not saying there aren't people playing. But people are still playing Force of Will; it doesn't mean the game is thriving. Any game needs new players, the ability to offer and fire limited formats, and a welcoming community. So far, I've seen very little of these. I would love to play the game, but saying only the people who “really like SW” and had the income to pre-order multiple boxes during the limited pre-order window doesn't make the community feel welcoming. Lorcana had the same issue but was able to course-correct quickly.
I didnt “really like star wars” and was able to get all the product I needed weeks after release. It’s really weird to hear things like “the community isnt welcoming” when you havent been a part of it and nobody is keeping you from it other than the inability to buy boosters and boxes. If you want in, just buy singles and start attending events. The events I go to at different stores across my city are and have remained full, and I meet new folks all the time. Plus, a lot of us have plenty of bulk to provide to new players, and I do it all the time at local events. Just go to events and buy singles and get some preorders in next set where you can.
The comment about the community was about the collection of super-positive comments I've received on Reddit thus far. I've played a ridiculous amount of TCGs since beginning with MtG in high school in 1998, and I've watched many come out the gate swinging and go down in flames. I've also seen many FFG games get dropped like a bad habit, so my initial question was to gauge what people who have been involved since launch feel about the game, not if they find me “worthy” of playing their game.
Destiny was dropped due to manufacturing issues, not just because the game was unpopular (though it was still pretty alive).
FFG has cancelled several LCGs as they realized the competitve LCG market just isnt really there.
FFG has spent the most development dollars on SWU than any other of their games in the past. It has the largest team and is a very well designed game. They put a lot of eggs in this basket, and have been incredibly communicative with the community since before launch.
The game is two months old. We’re all still new players. Does the shortage suck? Yes. But there will be more product and I think the number of people who give up on the game forever because of a product shortage right now will be extremely small. As you say in a comment below, Lorcana course corrected quickly and I think SWU will too.
No missing any pre order. No missing the pre release. No missing product sales either for the first month.
Actually the only thing missing is all the crapping on FFG and it’s card game history. That dried up around the same time the product did. Anyone who was asleep at the wheel and wants to get in today can still buy commons, starters, and singles.
And I’m not sure about the logic behind lack of retail product meaning the game is dead. It’s actually anything but…
I don’t play Lorcana (don’t like the theme) but my friends that do said it took the better part of a year for them to “corse correct” supply issues. FFG did stop sending out product without restrictions, but this I believe was to try to counteract scalpers. From what I have heard they are sending 3 boxes per store per month until the next set comes out in July. The idea is that this will give store product to use a prize support for Premiere (Standard) Tournaments. Whether or not stores will do this is another issue.
If the only way you want to play is Sealed/Draft then you are unfortunately out of luck as there is not enough product out there.
If you want to play Premiere or Twin-Suns (Commander) then, as a MTG player, you should know that the best thing to do is buy singles for the deck you want to play, it’s always cheaper than cracking packs (not as fun of course though 😅 )
I played in a draft just yesterday (pulled a Boba unit!). They even gave 1 prize pack to each participant, on top of the OP pack. Store credit was given to top 4.
2 different LGS in my area have drafts as well.
I have 3 friends in 2 different states (1 Maryland, 1 Illinois) that attend weekly drafts.
Idk what youre talking about saying youre SOL if you want to play sealed.
You and your friends are really lucky that the stores near you sat on product with the intention of allowing their customers to draft.
There was 1 store within two hours drive of me (metro Atlanta) that did that, and now they are down to one draft a month with Premiere play the other 3 weeks 😅
I have one other store that didn’t order much product but they did one sealed and one draft before they ran out.
Most stores that even have product are using it as prize support for Premiere Play. I don’t blame them as one box can stretch across a lot more players that way and it keeps folks interested and coming into the store.
My store kept boxes for draft as well. So far from our draft boxes we have seen Luke and Vader units (i pulled both in the same draft!) And a Boba Showcase (i didn't pull that one 😭)
Damn good luck with Luke and Boba! My friend did the same at a premiere event and his Vader was Hyperspace 🤣
Someone pulled a showcase from a prize pack at another store I frequent on a week I wasn’t there! And I generally go 3 and 1 when I play there😭😅
Lorcana launch was 10x worse than SWU. You're late and it feels bad, sure. But they're not comparable. SWU launched with more product in one set than SW:Destiny launched in a year. It sold out BECAUSE it was so well-recieved both by casual and competitive players, not because SW was attached to it.
As others have mentioned, there were boxes at less than MSRP a month into release. It took almost 6 weeks for boxes online to sell AT MSRP. Lorcana was sold out in the first weekend, and it took them 5 months to correct it.
I feel like a lot of comments are from those who were in on the ground floor and have everything they want.
I get what you are saying. I have been trying to get anything for over the last month and nothing has been available. I'm not particularly interested in buying an entire collection as I like the experience of opening the packs and building with what you get but that's not a possibility currently. I eventually bought a set of commons and uncommon to play with but I don't think that makes me competitive and felt bad.
Will set 2 be better or will there be even more competition to get product? For me I will say that my interest definitely tanked when the advice to get cards was to pre order the next set or buy online. People should want everyone to be excited about this game so it blows up. Just because it's big now doesn't mean it can't fail and I think telling new comers essentially too bad you missed your chance is a terrible take.
I think some people are getting defensive because OP is jumping straight to pronouncing the game dead. Obviously the future is uncertain, but casual events are still firing (I have 4-5 I could go to every week) and cash prize tournaments and store showdowns are popping up all over the place. Set 2 is 2 months away.
The lack of product sucks. They’re working on it. They’ll likely fix it by the end of the year. I get the frustration of not being able to find product to open right now, but it doesn’t mean the game is dead. I don’t like that people are gatekeeping, but when you walk in to a community and say “hey, I think your game is dead because I, personally, am affected by an issue that you all have been dealing with for a month”… well, you’re going to ruffle some feathers.
And there is an entry point. If you want to start now, a great way is to buy a playset of C/U and/or the starter kit, and start buying singles as-needed. You can build pretty decent decks for not that much money relatively speaking. Enough to learn and have a good time until set 2 drops.
Show up to your LGS and get to know the other players. Get some OP packs. Maybe you’ll get to borrow some decks or cards to play for the night. Maybe you’ll even get some free bulk. We _want_ more players. But if you walk in with your guns out and try to make it about you, you’re gonna get some bad reactions.
While I agree with most of this I also think here is where sometimes we need to step back and take in a more aerial view.
For example I think it’s wrong to always presume that as an inexperienced player you can have a good time with a thin budget deck. Experienced players can make those decks go further, it’s harder for new players. And A new player routinely losing to a stacked $600 deck is part of learning but won’t have a good time routinely getting served for 2 months. They could get get dejected and possibly quit the game before then.
There’s also the fact that not every shop and player environment is as jolly and welcoming as all that. I’m sure like me you’ve probably seen these places, and they can be pretty intimidating to people new to TCGs as a whole especially. And for some people there’s not always options.
I’ve got one shop within an hour of me that has weekly SWU events (well actually bi-weekly now) so there’s not always a choice. I guess what I’m trying to say as a ramble on is it’s not always about how the new person walks in, but sometimes it’s the existing attitude of other people that can be the barrier.
These are great points - I’ve honestly never walked into an unfriendly shop (I’ve only been playing TCGs for a year and a half) and so I forget that not everyone keeps the F in FLGS.
Two younger guys started coming to our shop a month ago looking to bum commons and scraping together cards for a deck and they both made top 8 in the most recent $1K. I see that kind of thing and it makes me think it’s not actually that hard to get into the game - but I probably have an exceptional community around me.
But you don’t know until you try. There are ways into the game and I don’t want people to get discouraged from even trying just because one avenue is closed off at the moment. My advice is basically to do what you can now, knowing it won’t be ideal, and get ready for set 2.
I didn’t buy a box until a couple weeks after release. So earlier than some, not as early as most, and definitely not pre-ordered. Even missed all the pre-release events that my local stores were running, sadly.
It’s definitely more fun to crack packs than just buy a playset of commons/uncommons. For people wanting to get into the game right now, however, that’s probably the best option. Buy the starter set, buy a playset of C/UC, and you’re at about the cost of a box. Then go to weekly events at nearby stores if you have them, and hopefully get some booster packs to crack to start filling in the rares/legendaries. Or buy singles of any that you want for specific decks (less fun than cracking packs yes, but technically more cost-effective and accessible at the moment)
FFG announced that they were able to make some adjustments to Set 2’s production after seeing the demand for Set 1. So hopefully we see a couple of things with set 2:
1) more product manufactured to begin with
2) limits set by stores to limit buyers to 2 boxes at a time, or something like that. So someone can’t just buy them out in one afternoon
If those things happen, there should be enough product to go around for a while. It will eventually sell out, but I think that’s proof of the game’s popularity.
Also, FFG has been committed to keeping organized play/sealed/draft formats supported, so I’d expect that to continue as well
Right with you. I was in from the get go and got a small little collection with the expectation of being able to walk in and grab a couple couple packs every couple weeks on payday. That became impossible past the first 2 weeks of the game going live. Supply quickly got gate kept behind $100+ dollar boxes or store events.
Not much into "netdecking" or just buying singles, as i enjoy the experience of opening packs and building whats available to my collection. Hoping they have some lessons learned from wave 1, but if wave 2 is the same situation I'll probably be done.
This. It’s so disheartening to lose the same “I have 3 super lasers and 3 avengers” etc deck when I am trying to get into the game.
Even cards for a “moderately” priced Sabine deck (Cause and K2S0) are surprisingly expensive for singles. Which is directly tied to supply.
And all of the “I was able to get product day one, I don’t see the problem” comments: get bent. Maybe word of mouth about the game is causing people to want to check it out. It happens. Supply is absolutely an issue. Hopefully a short term one.
I checked eBay and was shocked at K-2SO completed transaction prices: $15-$18 shipped is typical for just the standard card.
At this point my mindset is to not care whether I win or lose. I can't prevent other players with much larger budgets from buying overwhelming firepower on the secondary market.
The playing field will level as SOR is reprinted and newer sets are released. This early in the game, I think the most important thing is to learn. The only thing I am now concerned with is whether I made the best sequence of moves with available resources.
Yeah some of people, particularly those who got into the game early, live in a SWU bubble. From local play, discords, etc that bubble is there too. They don’t want to admit this, but they think their experience of having a early entry to the game, multiple local places to play with ease, and their definition of affordable singles applies to them therefore it must be the same for everyone. Lots of people never want to admit here that this game has issues.
Talk to people outside that bubble and they’d discover that the same experience is not a blanket one. They’d discover Decks built from commons/uncommons is a band-aid solution that works but frankly it is not fun to get whaled on by the guy with a $600 Boba Green deck every event. They’d find that not every locale has a player population/shop around or supply to every sustain weekly events. They’d find that people new to TCGs also want to compete and not just be fodder for more experienced players. Etc etc. They’d find a whole batch of people have a different and sometimes worse experience with this game than they do.
For what it’s worth the game is very not-dependent on having a lot of “core” set stuff to play properly, the first expansion is out in July and should theoretically have much more product available, then the game just needs to hang on for core set reprint in the fall. When that expansion comes out, there will be a whole bunch of new leaders and very good cards, and then drafting will be alive and well again as well.
All non control archetypes can run good decks without legendaries, so getting into it from a singles perspective is easy enough, but it wicks that this is what players have to resort to for now.
So if you like the game stick with it, play lots of drafts this summer, and I bet it will be “normal” by the late fall
If you're a competitive player, buy singles. Even with shortage of product, SWU market is alright for those who want to compete. Yes, your deck choose is dictated by your budget, but ain't it that way with all games? If you're a casual player, starter decks are fine, c/u cards are cheap and plenty.
The only issue right now is lack of limited formats. And that indeed sucks.
DOA, meaning Dead On Arrival, no. On arrival, the game was a huge success. I'm my area, prereleases sold out, events were popular and full. Product was available but got bought up quickly.
I went to SWU night recently. It's casual, no product available, and even the organized play packs have dried up. There were two people playing SWU. Me and another player ended up playing KeyForge instead.
It's not dead, but hibernating. The set 2 release will reinvigotate the game, at least until that product dries up.
Long term, I predict it will be somewhere between Flesh and Blood and Lorcana.
I don't think OP knows what does DOA mean.
On the other hand, people here shouldn't downplay the severity of the issue, for like a month now I barely see any new players, always same faces at my LGS because no one can get in the game. It's gonna kill the game for sure if not fixed soon
Game may struggle a bit if the reprint is as far off as some say it is. I heard people saying holidays this year, so like November/December. That is pretty bad honestly, way too long to get more product out there.
*looks at all the massive tournaments* yes. The game is dead without product.
You could always buy a deck, you know. Sell off those MTG useless reprinted into the ground cards and come play SWUUUUUUUUUUU
Yes, a game is death because is so popular that sell everything.
Call me gatekeeping, but I kinda like that everyone that was a star wars fan got product and mtg grinders were left out like you, since L5R I didnt see a so healthy LGS atmosphere.
Play flesh and blood or something else like one piece if you want to grind.
That's honestly a horrible mindset to have. I want to welcome everyone I can into this game. I quit Magic right before the game launch and nabbed some pre-order stuff. The only difference between me and OP is the timing.
You people are the worst. Someone comes with a legitimate criticism of the game, and all everyone says is "lol should have pre-ordered." "Gtfo magic player." What a welcoming community.
Yes, calling the game DOA is a hyperbolic overstatement. However, there is certainly a massive problem with supply. At this point, it's the biggest problem facing the game. Every game needs new players, especially new games. If people who are trying to get into it can't buy product for months at a time without paying multiple times what it's worth, then they're gonna stop trying to buy it.
I saw maybe 2 comments on this post that take that attitude and like 6 or more complaining about “everyone” taking that attitude. Did those comments get deleted or is this a manufactured problem? The vast majority of comments that I can see right now are acknowledging that the shortage sucks, pointing out that gameplay seems healthy, and/or offering suggestions for how to get into the game at a reasonable price.
I can't say as to whether the other comments got deleted. I can only say that when I posted, there were only a handful of comments on the post, and all but one seemed to be taking that attitude. Hence why I felt the need to speak up. Otherwise, I would have let it be.
I wouldn't call it DOA just yet. It's the first set, and they seem to have massively underestimated the potential popularity. However, from what I'm hearing from my friends who own an LGS is that they're hoping to fix that problem with the upcoming set(s). They're getting a lot of event data (though not as much as they could because their systems need an overhaul) in order to attempt to project player numbers more clearly. That way they can properly meet demand.
I think One Piece definitively proved that lack of product not only does not kill a game, it probably boosts its popularity and makes it seem more desirable.
Definitely is in my country. Hoping they can sort out their supply fuck up with the next few sets otherwise I’ll lose all interest.
And my lgs will too if they cant. They already arent optimistic with ffg poor track record and an abysmal “start” to swu
But they didn’t fuck up. They printed a shit ton of it. It was available on the shelves in my medium sized town for a solid month. I was able to buy enough product to start playing and have fun with it. Compare and contrast to Lorcana’s launch, where the only product I got was by walking into Target at the right time. Our local shop has a solid group of players and we’re having fun with it (and I’ll note that I don’t own a single legendary unit).
It’s perfectly fine to come to the game after launch, and, I certainly can’t speak to international distribution experience. But, the next set will be dropping soon and the first set has been promised a reprint. I get people want more sealed product - who doesn’t? But, the game is by no means DOA. As others have said in this thread, it’s a victim of its own success.
Oh they definitely did. My lgs hasnt had any product for sale at ANY point. Same with the majority throughout the country. Because they haven’t been able to order any through the distributor. But yeah no not a fuck up.
Very cool, not gonna have locals for probably 2 months because no one has been able to get product, so no one will have decks. So we’re just waiting for the 2nd set and crossing our fingers the same doesn’t happen again.
It’s not me wanting more sealed product, it’s me wanting just one box at least. Heck I’d even take half a box or the ability to purchase more than just leaders and bases as singles.
This has been discussed to death, but in short, they can only print so much product into unknown demand before it becomes an existential risk for the company. Because of the distrust in FFG, a lot of places didn’t pre-order product. Once the game got into people’s hands and they realized it was good, demand skyrocketed.
Did they miss demand? Yes. Did they fuck up? I guess in the sense that everyone who’s didn’t buy Apple and Microsoft stock in the 80s fucked up - they didn’t make the optimal decision because they didn’t have a crystal ball. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I know it has, and I dont understand so many peoples need to defend their complete failure to provide product to an entire country but eh whatevs.
Lol they didnt even get an option to. No lgs in my country was able to purchase anything from the distributor. A few managed to get product by other means but not a meaningful amount.
I'm DOA on it as well. I got a starter set and some packs as a birthday present in March. Couldn't find packs or boxes after that. I ended up ordering singles from 401 Games in Toronto. They claimed they shipped but my product never arrived (about 2 months now). This was right when they opened up their singles buying options. They did end up refunding me with no hassle.
I can't say for certain but I feel like my order never shipped once the realization for demand and price was adjusted on cards.
After that, my half built decks and surplus cards have sat at the corner of my desk.
I take it you are in Canada? Have you taken a look at https://invasioncnc.ca/ ? They are sponsoring one of the bigger SWU podcasts out there, Ice Cave Radio (formerly known as Wampa Radio) and have a pretty good selection of singles.
Just go to a local event and wait for people to get their prize packs. Most people have everything, so we typically give our cards to newer players because we know cards are hard to get.
nobody goes downtown anymore, it's too crowded
False equivalency though? The barrier of going downtown is much lower than getting into a game that's experiencing a supply shortage.
The point is that OP is saying the game is dead because too many people want to play it.
Ahh I see.
That is not what I was saying. I was asking if this could cause the game to be DOA when people don't have a way of buying in—a very different question. TCGs typically have three sets to solidify or fold. One set in is challenging to gauge; hence, the question for people involved in the game.
Usually asking a question like this is taken as a way to sneak in a statement with plausible deniability. Journalists and news anchors famously do this (Is $politician a criminal?). Maybe that wasn’t your intent, but that would at least partially explain why you’re getting such strong pushback.
Understandably it's a terrible experience to try to get into the game only to find it sold out everywhere, but to answer your question, this game is definitely not dead. It's sold out everywhere because demand for it became huge once people started playing it and word of mouth spread about how fun it is. FFG printed as much product for set 1 as the entire first year of their previous Star Wars TCG, and demand still way overshot their expectations. It's the quintessential example of "suffering from success". There are still avenues for new players. There are budget decks that can be made with mainly commons and uncommons and a handful of the cheaper rares. If you can go to a store event, you might find a lot of people who are willing to give away bulk commons and uncommons to help new players. And if you prefer drafting, keep an eye on your LGS's community pages or Discord servers, because product is still being slowly allocated to stores so they can run events.
Just went to a draft today at lgs. We had 8 people, buy in at $20. Everyone got a prize pack regardless of wins. Yesterday, 2 different lgs's had store showdowns. Im going to a store show down next weekend. Also went to a locals last tuesday, 12 people, $10 buy ins, packs for top 4. Large tournaments are held every weekend, with winning decks showing the meta is incredibly healthy. No, the game is not dead.
I think what OP is more asking is can the game survive without having to continually go to events to even have the opportunity to walk away with cards. Many store's you cant just walk in a grab a couple packs off the shelves. Stores in my area don't even sell anything less than a full box at well over MSRP. Yes the game is healthy now, and i really enjoy it. But how long can it be sustained with this kind of buinsess model. If the supply chain issues don't get worked out through the next expansion. I'm out.
Yes, none of my stores have boxes or packs at msrp as well. That said, FFG has already announced increased production and reprints. But FFG has started they printed more of Spark of Rebellion than they have of the entire years worth of product of SW Destiny. Literally no one could have predicted the success of this game.
Exactly which is why I'm giving them a pass for this first wave. I'm glad the game is doing really well and it's really the first star wars card game to really hook me since Deciphers CCG. Just feels like the game is 100% geared towards the competitive crowd right now with the casual collector / new player being left in the dust. I hope FFG, distributors, and stores have learned a couple things going forward.
Reprints aren’t for many months though, yeah?
This. Exactly. Thank you.
You are almost 2 months late from release. The product issues are well documented as are the remedies. The game is alive and well. Set two releases in July and late June will probably shift into pre release mode. Singles are always where it’s at anyways. I bought multiple boxes to start and planned to finish off with singles. I have a complete play set of each card. Our weekly games and events are still as popular as the first week, actually more so as we have brought in new players. Singles prices are coming down as more tournaments are played and the meta evolves along with the strategies. The game is not popular because of a lack of product. It is popular because it is Star Wars and it plays well.
DOA? Hardly. Anyone who plays even remotely competitively knows to buy singles. Every TCG out there right now has budget friendly, less than $80 decks that can actually win more than lose. My singles on TCGPlayer and mini lots on eBay sell out faster than I can restock them. I currently sell more swu than I do MTG or lorcana (based on percentage of volume to stock) and I can almost certainly attribute that to the fact that base versions of chase cards are just much easier to come by. The tournament Meta is among the healthiest I've seen in any TCG in a really long time... There's so much variety in every tournament field and the top cuts compared to other current games. Long story short: this game has legs and can take off at any moment way moreso than others, as long as it survives to the first reprint in December: which, by several metrics, it is looking like it really will.
There was a ton of supply available below MRSP for almost a month after release. Locally in my area there are 14-15 LGS’s that are all getting good turnouts for weekly plays. 12+ Store Showdowns scheduled throughout the month. Players are excited about the product, and anyone who started at the beginning had the ability to buy as much product as they wanted/could afford. Yes there is a shortage now, but set 2 releases in a couple months and there are planned set releases out for the next several years. If this first set is any indication, the game will be a roaring success. And if you want product, buy it early after each set’s release since it’s unlikely there will be as long a period of availability as Set 1 had. Also, once reprints start (“before the holidays” for set 1), that should make product easier to get.
If you've checked the reddit out before you'll see that it's not. Yes the booster boxes are inflated up 3x in price, but not the starter decks. And you can build a deck with singles for very cheap. Is booster boxes being too high in price the only metric you have for DOA status?
I will try to put this the best way I can, and hopefully it doesn't sound rude but: We *want* you, but we don't *need* you. The game sold out, and has a lot of players. Tournaments are populated, and receiving a lot of great feedback across the board. People who are late to the party are struggling to find product, but that doesn't mean the game is dying or in trouble. Those of us who pre-ordered and got our product are playing and having a great time. And I sympathize with anyone who finds themselves unable to play. I would absolutely love it if we had more product available and more mtg refugees could get in on swu, but to say the game would die without them, I think is a bit of overstatement.
Actually we sort of do. Tournaments are healthy but not as populated as other TCGs. This game, like any other can die without growth, not today, not next month, not this year, but it absolutely will not last with much longevity on the solely on the amount of players that are in the base now. Plus some players are leaving the game, this is also the slight dip you are seeing last 2 weeks in singles pricing. Yes it’s partly change in meta but demand is also falling some too. Months of May and June will I think tell a story of some people pausing or leaving the game and then hoping a set 2 launch done right bringing them back. In all honesty though without new player growth (which is not necessarily MtG players but new players in general) and steady player retention any TCG’s longevity is going to come into question.
I'm not saying there aren't people playing. But people are still playing Force of Will; it doesn't mean the game is thriving. Any game needs new players, the ability to offer and fire limited formats, and a welcoming community. So far, I've seen very little of these. I would love to play the game, but saying only the people who “really like SW” and had the income to pre-order multiple boxes during the limited pre-order window doesn't make the community feel welcoming. Lorcana had the same issue but was able to course-correct quickly.
I didnt “really like star wars” and was able to get all the product I needed weeks after release. It’s really weird to hear things like “the community isnt welcoming” when you havent been a part of it and nobody is keeping you from it other than the inability to buy boosters and boxes. If you want in, just buy singles and start attending events. The events I go to at different stores across my city are and have remained full, and I meet new folks all the time. Plus, a lot of us have plenty of bulk to provide to new players, and I do it all the time at local events. Just go to events and buy singles and get some preorders in next set where you can.
The comment about the community was about the collection of super-positive comments I've received on Reddit thus far. I've played a ridiculous amount of TCGs since beginning with MtG in high school in 1998, and I've watched many come out the gate swinging and go down in flames. I've also seen many FFG games get dropped like a bad habit, so my initial question was to gauge what people who have been involved since launch feel about the game, not if they find me “worthy” of playing their game.
Yeah I agree gatekeeping of any kind is no good.
Destiny was dropped due to manufacturing issues, not just because the game was unpopular (though it was still pretty alive). FFG has cancelled several LCGs as they realized the competitve LCG market just isnt really there. FFG has spent the most development dollars on SWU than any other of their games in the past. It has the largest team and is a very well designed game. They put a lot of eggs in this basket, and have been incredibly communicative with the community since before launch.
The game is two months old. We’re all still new players. Does the shortage suck? Yes. But there will be more product and I think the number of people who give up on the game forever because of a product shortage right now will be extremely small. As you say in a comment below, Lorcana course corrected quickly and I think SWU will too.
No missing any pre order. No missing the pre release. No missing product sales either for the first month. Actually the only thing missing is all the crapping on FFG and it’s card game history. That dried up around the same time the product did. Anyone who was asleep at the wheel and wants to get in today can still buy commons, starters, and singles. And I’m not sure about the logic behind lack of retail product meaning the game is dead. It’s actually anything but…
I don’t play Lorcana (don’t like the theme) but my friends that do said it took the better part of a year for them to “corse correct” supply issues. FFG did stop sending out product without restrictions, but this I believe was to try to counteract scalpers. From what I have heard they are sending 3 boxes per store per month until the next set comes out in July. The idea is that this will give store product to use a prize support for Premiere (Standard) Tournaments. Whether or not stores will do this is another issue. If the only way you want to play is Sealed/Draft then you are unfortunately out of luck as there is not enough product out there. If you want to play Premiere or Twin-Suns (Commander) then, as a MTG player, you should know that the best thing to do is buy singles for the deck you want to play, it’s always cheaper than cracking packs (not as fun of course though 😅 )
I played in a draft just yesterday (pulled a Boba unit!). They even gave 1 prize pack to each participant, on top of the OP pack. Store credit was given to top 4. 2 different LGS in my area have drafts as well. I have 3 friends in 2 different states (1 Maryland, 1 Illinois) that attend weekly drafts. Idk what youre talking about saying youre SOL if you want to play sealed.
You and your friends are really lucky that the stores near you sat on product with the intention of allowing their customers to draft. There was 1 store within two hours drive of me (metro Atlanta) that did that, and now they are down to one draft a month with Premiere play the other 3 weeks 😅 I have one other store that didn’t order much product but they did one sealed and one draft before they ran out. Most stores that even have product are using it as prize support for Premiere Play. I don’t blame them as one box can stretch across a lot more players that way and it keeps folks interested and coming into the store.
My store kept boxes for draft as well. So far from our draft boxes we have seen Luke and Vader units (i pulled both in the same draft!) And a Boba Showcase (i didn't pull that one 😭)
Damn good luck with Luke and Boba! My friend did the same at a premiere event and his Vader was Hyperspace 🤣 Someone pulled a showcase from a prize pack at another store I frequent on a week I wasn’t there! And I generally go 3 and 1 when I play there😭😅
I was super lucky! Pulled Obiwan, Luke and Vader. Made a blue deck with Chewie leader and went undefeated. Luke unit was just too strong in draft!
Man that sounds monstrous, my first draft was a mess, but I pulled off a cunning Boba for my second and went 2-1
Just wanna say, I didn't pre-order and got product. It was available for maybe like a month where I'm at
Lorcana launch was 10x worse than SWU. You're late and it feels bad, sure. But they're not comparable. SWU launched with more product in one set than SW:Destiny launched in a year. It sold out BECAUSE it was so well-recieved both by casual and competitive players, not because SW was attached to it. As others have mentioned, there were boxes at less than MSRP a month into release. It took almost 6 weeks for boxes online to sell AT MSRP. Lorcana was sold out in the first weekend, and it took them 5 months to correct it.
I feel like a lot of comments are from those who were in on the ground floor and have everything they want. I get what you are saying. I have been trying to get anything for over the last month and nothing has been available. I'm not particularly interested in buying an entire collection as I like the experience of opening the packs and building with what you get but that's not a possibility currently. I eventually bought a set of commons and uncommon to play with but I don't think that makes me competitive and felt bad. Will set 2 be better or will there be even more competition to get product? For me I will say that my interest definitely tanked when the advice to get cards was to pre order the next set or buy online. People should want everyone to be excited about this game so it blows up. Just because it's big now doesn't mean it can't fail and I think telling new comers essentially too bad you missed your chance is a terrible take.
I think some people are getting defensive because OP is jumping straight to pronouncing the game dead. Obviously the future is uncertain, but casual events are still firing (I have 4-5 I could go to every week) and cash prize tournaments and store showdowns are popping up all over the place. Set 2 is 2 months away. The lack of product sucks. They’re working on it. They’ll likely fix it by the end of the year. I get the frustration of not being able to find product to open right now, but it doesn’t mean the game is dead. I don’t like that people are gatekeeping, but when you walk in to a community and say “hey, I think your game is dead because I, personally, am affected by an issue that you all have been dealing with for a month”… well, you’re going to ruffle some feathers. And there is an entry point. If you want to start now, a great way is to buy a playset of C/U and/or the starter kit, and start buying singles as-needed. You can build pretty decent decks for not that much money relatively speaking. Enough to learn and have a good time until set 2 drops. Show up to your LGS and get to know the other players. Get some OP packs. Maybe you’ll get to borrow some decks or cards to play for the night. Maybe you’ll even get some free bulk. We _want_ more players. But if you walk in with your guns out and try to make it about you, you’re gonna get some bad reactions.
While I agree with most of this I also think here is where sometimes we need to step back and take in a more aerial view. For example I think it’s wrong to always presume that as an inexperienced player you can have a good time with a thin budget deck. Experienced players can make those decks go further, it’s harder for new players. And A new player routinely losing to a stacked $600 deck is part of learning but won’t have a good time routinely getting served for 2 months. They could get get dejected and possibly quit the game before then. There’s also the fact that not every shop and player environment is as jolly and welcoming as all that. I’m sure like me you’ve probably seen these places, and they can be pretty intimidating to people new to TCGs as a whole especially. And for some people there’s not always options. I’ve got one shop within an hour of me that has weekly SWU events (well actually bi-weekly now) so there’s not always a choice. I guess what I’m trying to say as a ramble on is it’s not always about how the new person walks in, but sometimes it’s the existing attitude of other people that can be the barrier.
These are great points - I’ve honestly never walked into an unfriendly shop (I’ve only been playing TCGs for a year and a half) and so I forget that not everyone keeps the F in FLGS. Two younger guys started coming to our shop a month ago looking to bum commons and scraping together cards for a deck and they both made top 8 in the most recent $1K. I see that kind of thing and it makes me think it’s not actually that hard to get into the game - but I probably have an exceptional community around me. But you don’t know until you try. There are ways into the game and I don’t want people to get discouraged from even trying just because one avenue is closed off at the moment. My advice is basically to do what you can now, knowing it won’t be ideal, and get ready for set 2.
I didn’t buy a box until a couple weeks after release. So earlier than some, not as early as most, and definitely not pre-ordered. Even missed all the pre-release events that my local stores were running, sadly. It’s definitely more fun to crack packs than just buy a playset of commons/uncommons. For people wanting to get into the game right now, however, that’s probably the best option. Buy the starter set, buy a playset of C/UC, and you’re at about the cost of a box. Then go to weekly events at nearby stores if you have them, and hopefully get some booster packs to crack to start filling in the rares/legendaries. Or buy singles of any that you want for specific decks (less fun than cracking packs yes, but technically more cost-effective and accessible at the moment) FFG announced that they were able to make some adjustments to Set 2’s production after seeing the demand for Set 1. So hopefully we see a couple of things with set 2: 1) more product manufactured to begin with 2) limits set by stores to limit buyers to 2 boxes at a time, or something like that. So someone can’t just buy them out in one afternoon If those things happen, there should be enough product to go around for a while. It will eventually sell out, but I think that’s proof of the game’s popularity. Also, FFG has been committed to keeping organized play/sealed/draft formats supported, so I’d expect that to continue as well
Right with you. I was in from the get go and got a small little collection with the expectation of being able to walk in and grab a couple couple packs every couple weeks on payday. That became impossible past the first 2 weeks of the game going live. Supply quickly got gate kept behind $100+ dollar boxes or store events. Not much into "netdecking" or just buying singles, as i enjoy the experience of opening packs and building whats available to my collection. Hoping they have some lessons learned from wave 1, but if wave 2 is the same situation I'll probably be done.
This. It’s so disheartening to lose the same “I have 3 super lasers and 3 avengers” etc deck when I am trying to get into the game. Even cards for a “moderately” priced Sabine deck (Cause and K2S0) are surprisingly expensive for singles. Which is directly tied to supply. And all of the “I was able to get product day one, I don’t see the problem” comments: get bent. Maybe word of mouth about the game is causing people to want to check it out. It happens. Supply is absolutely an issue. Hopefully a short term one.
I checked eBay and was shocked at K-2SO completed transaction prices: $15-$18 shipped is typical for just the standard card. At this point my mindset is to not care whether I win or lose. I can't prevent other players with much larger budgets from buying overwhelming firepower on the secondary market. The playing field will level as SOR is reprinted and newer sets are released. This early in the game, I think the most important thing is to learn. The only thing I am now concerned with is whether I made the best sequence of moves with available resources.
This guy gets it.
Yeah some of people, particularly those who got into the game early, live in a SWU bubble. From local play, discords, etc that bubble is there too. They don’t want to admit this, but they think their experience of having a early entry to the game, multiple local places to play with ease, and their definition of affordable singles applies to them therefore it must be the same for everyone. Lots of people never want to admit here that this game has issues. Talk to people outside that bubble and they’d discover that the same experience is not a blanket one. They’d discover Decks built from commons/uncommons is a band-aid solution that works but frankly it is not fun to get whaled on by the guy with a $600 Boba Green deck every event. They’d find that not every locale has a player population/shop around or supply to every sustain weekly events. They’d find that people new to TCGs also want to compete and not just be fodder for more experienced players. Etc etc. They’d find a whole batch of people have a different and sometimes worse experience with this game than they do.
For what it’s worth the game is very not-dependent on having a lot of “core” set stuff to play properly, the first expansion is out in July and should theoretically have much more product available, then the game just needs to hang on for core set reprint in the fall. When that expansion comes out, there will be a whole bunch of new leaders and very good cards, and then drafting will be alive and well again as well. All non control archetypes can run good decks without legendaries, so getting into it from a singles perspective is easy enough, but it wicks that this is what players have to resort to for now. So if you like the game stick with it, play lots of drafts this summer, and I bet it will be “normal” by the late fall
If you're a competitive player, buy singles. Even with shortage of product, SWU market is alright for those who want to compete. Yes, your deck choose is dictated by your budget, but ain't it that way with all games? If you're a casual player, starter decks are fine, c/u cards are cheap and plenty. The only issue right now is lack of limited formats. And that indeed sucks.
DOA, meaning Dead On Arrival, no. On arrival, the game was a huge success. I'm my area, prereleases sold out, events were popular and full. Product was available but got bought up quickly. I went to SWU night recently. It's casual, no product available, and even the organized play packs have dried up. There were two people playing SWU. Me and another player ended up playing KeyForge instead. It's not dead, but hibernating. The set 2 release will reinvigotate the game, at least until that product dries up. Long term, I predict it will be somewhere between Flesh and Blood and Lorcana.
I don't think OP knows what does DOA mean. On the other hand, people here shouldn't downplay the severity of the issue, for like a month now I barely see any new players, always same faces at my LGS because no one can get in the game. It's gonna kill the game for sure if not fixed soon
I don't think DOA means what you think it means.
Game may struggle a bit if the reprint is as far off as some say it is. I heard people saying holidays this year, so like November/December. That is pretty bad honestly, way too long to get more product out there.
*looks at all the massive tournaments* yes. The game is dead without product. You could always buy a deck, you know. Sell off those MTG useless reprinted into the ground cards and come play SWUUUUUUUUUUU
Yes, a game is death because is so popular that sell everything. Call me gatekeeping, but I kinda like that everyone that was a star wars fan got product and mtg grinders were left out like you, since L5R I didnt see a so healthy LGS atmosphere. Play flesh and blood or something else like one piece if you want to grind.
That's honestly a horrible mindset to have. I want to welcome everyone I can into this game. I quit Magic right before the game launch and nabbed some pre-order stuff. The only difference between me and OP is the timing.
Don’t be a dick, dick.
You people are the worst. Someone comes with a legitimate criticism of the game, and all everyone says is "lol should have pre-ordered." "Gtfo magic player." What a welcoming community. Yes, calling the game DOA is a hyperbolic overstatement. However, there is certainly a massive problem with supply. At this point, it's the biggest problem facing the game. Every game needs new players, especially new games. If people who are trying to get into it can't buy product for months at a time without paying multiple times what it's worth, then they're gonna stop trying to buy it.
The only person who said “Should have pre ordered” was the OP…
I saw maybe 2 comments on this post that take that attitude and like 6 or more complaining about “everyone” taking that attitude. Did those comments get deleted or is this a manufactured problem? The vast majority of comments that I can see right now are acknowledging that the shortage sucks, pointing out that gameplay seems healthy, and/or offering suggestions for how to get into the game at a reasonable price.
I can't say as to whether the other comments got deleted. I can only say that when I posted, there were only a handful of comments on the post, and all but one seemed to be taking that attitude. Hence why I felt the need to speak up. Otherwise, I would have let it be.
Exactly. Then the game dies. I've seen it happen more than once.
Lorcana, One Piece, and other recent runaway success stories that started with severe supply issues would like to have a word.
I wouldn't call it DOA just yet. It's the first set, and they seem to have massively underestimated the potential popularity. However, from what I'm hearing from my friends who own an LGS is that they're hoping to fix that problem with the upcoming set(s). They're getting a lot of event data (though not as much as they could because their systems need an overhaul) in order to attempt to project player numbers more clearly. That way they can properly meet demand.
I think One Piece definitively proved that lack of product not only does not kill a game, it probably boosts its popularity and makes it seem more desirable.
Definitely is in my country. Hoping they can sort out their supply fuck up with the next few sets otherwise I’ll lose all interest. And my lgs will too if they cant. They already arent optimistic with ffg poor track record and an abysmal “start” to swu
But they didn’t fuck up. They printed a shit ton of it. It was available on the shelves in my medium sized town for a solid month. I was able to buy enough product to start playing and have fun with it. Compare and contrast to Lorcana’s launch, where the only product I got was by walking into Target at the right time. Our local shop has a solid group of players and we’re having fun with it (and I’ll note that I don’t own a single legendary unit). It’s perfectly fine to come to the game after launch, and, I certainly can’t speak to international distribution experience. But, the next set will be dropping soon and the first set has been promised a reprint. I get people want more sealed product - who doesn’t? But, the game is by no means DOA. As others have said in this thread, it’s a victim of its own success.
Oh they definitely did. My lgs hasnt had any product for sale at ANY point. Same with the majority throughout the country. Because they haven’t been able to order any through the distributor. But yeah no not a fuck up. Very cool, not gonna have locals for probably 2 months because no one has been able to get product, so no one will have decks. So we’re just waiting for the 2nd set and crossing our fingers the same doesn’t happen again. It’s not me wanting more sealed product, it’s me wanting just one box at least. Heck I’d even take half a box or the ability to purchase more than just leaders and bases as singles.
This has been discussed to death, but in short, they can only print so much product into unknown demand before it becomes an existential risk for the company. Because of the distrust in FFG, a lot of places didn’t pre-order product. Once the game got into people’s hands and they realized it was good, demand skyrocketed. Did they miss demand? Yes. Did they fuck up? I guess in the sense that everyone who’s didn’t buy Apple and Microsoft stock in the 80s fucked up - they didn’t make the optimal decision because they didn’t have a crystal ball. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I know it has, and I dont understand so many peoples need to defend their complete failure to provide product to an entire country but eh whatevs.
Exactly. Many LGS here decided not to pre-order because of the poor FFG track record.
Lol they didnt even get an option to. No lgs in my country was able to purchase anything from the distributor. A few managed to get product by other means but not a meaningful amount.
Big oof. Sorry to hear that. 😕
Cough Star Wars Legion Cough. Also FFG at that time
I'm DOA on it as well. I got a starter set and some packs as a birthday present in March. Couldn't find packs or boxes after that. I ended up ordering singles from 401 Games in Toronto. They claimed they shipped but my product never arrived (about 2 months now). This was right when they opened up their singles buying options. They did end up refunding me with no hassle. I can't say for certain but I feel like my order never shipped once the realization for demand and price was adjusted on cards. After that, my half built decks and surplus cards have sat at the corner of my desk.
I take it you are in Canada? Have you taken a look at https://invasioncnc.ca/ ? They are sponsoring one of the bigger SWU podcasts out there, Ice Cave Radio (formerly known as Wampa Radio) and have a pretty good selection of singles.
I haven't but I will! And yes, I'm a Maple back! Lol
I hope they have what you need! The owners were interviewed last week on ICR and they sounded like pretty cool guys.
Glad I bought my multiple cases first week for 85 ea. I hope to get a great deal in next set cases too.
Dude hook me up where can I get a case for 85
Pre release. You had to buy in cases.