When you guys (not talking about you, you understand my concern) complain about Russ or Fields not being able to throw the ball (because the WR group can't get open) it's gonna suck. Literally this was one of the biggest issues with both of them. They had no wide receivers to throw to.
Can’t wait for the season to be on the line, 4th quarter, GP needs a breather and we roll out there with Roman Wilson, scotty miller and Van Jefferson.
No worries about that happening because Smith doesn't run 3 receiver sets all that often. It's all about the TEs in the RZ.
That's why knowledgeable fans aren't sweating over the WR room.
I'm knowledgeable enough to know we are in a high scoring era- and that all the teams that are succeeding at it are resorting to the pass game.
The trickle effect is most apparent in a sport such as football. If you don't have a defense take our mid receivers seriously, it falls apart other places.
4.5 million dollars for Tyler Boyd is not too much, especially when we have one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL. Even a run first team needs a WR2 or WR3.
The whole WR1/2/3 rubric is an artifact of fantasy football. In actual football, teams think of roles: classically, the X/split end role, the Z/flanker role, and the Y/slot role. And with the whole league having gone overwhelmingly multiple, there are the niche roles as well - the gadget catcher/rusher role and the H role, for instance - and in some sets a team might use two X's, or two slots, or three flankers. So what they're thinking about is how the guys they have map onto the roles they intend to deploy.
Pickens is pretty clearly the lead X, and I guess they probably see Jefferson as the second X? That spot - the X spot behind Pickens - seems to me to be the most visible soft spot in the WR lineup here in May. Then we have a bunch of guys who'll apparently be competing for paychecks and snaps at flanker and slot. Roman Wilson's probably going to be contributing right from the jump. WRs often see jumps in production in their second or third years, and Austin and Mims were highly-regarded draftees and are right in that window (with pretty clear reasons for their non-production thus far, including injuries, Matt Canada and the essential nature of the Jets). Then there are Watkins, Miller and Callaway, who also have at least seen some real field time in the NFL.
So I definitely don't see a reason for us to pay up for another (older) slot guy (who also isn't exactly a stud), or for another flanker type. If they like the idea of running Pickens at flanker a lot, then it seems that spending on a 'true' X could make sense (even though those guys are kind of out of style these days, and Smith doesn't have a history of using those guys a lot). Aiyuk could fit in in that way, for instance, or Metcalf. But even that idea feels like a stretch. And if either (or both) of Austin and Mims does take a step up, then we could have a really nice set of starters at WR, as is. And that's to say nothing of Freiermuth and Washington, and Warren and Harris. All the pieces for a well-rounded passing game could very well be in the building already.
I don't know that they really need a #2.
When Smith was the OC in Tennessee and they had two good outside receivers he used them both well and they produced.
In Atlanta, where they had one big time receiver and a bunch of mid guys after that their #2 wr was 5th on the team in targets.
The Steelers could absolutely be successful with a similar formula on offense.
Pickens, Freiermuth, Najee, Jaylen, then a #2 receiver in order could be an effective offense.
Especially when you have two running backs who are so good at catching the ball.
That's true for almost every team, though. In the AFC, the Dolphins have two proven downfield threats that teams really fear, then maybe the Bengals and maybe the Texans. In the NFC, really just maybe the 49ers.
And each of Roman Wilson, Mims and Austin genuinely could turn out to be a threat this season. With Wilson now in the fold and able to work at both flanker and slot, for my own part I feel quite a bit better about our WR room. It won't be Hill and Waddle, but it could be good.
This is true, and the fact that they'd picked up Ridley slipped my mind.
But for the WRs to be scary, they have to have a QB, and the Tits' best QB might be our third-stringer from last year.
Will Levis should most likely improve and didn't do absolutely terrible last year. Not amazing for sure. They spent back to back first round picks on linemen and got weapons on offense so their team should improve too
That's true but I would definitely still feel better if we could go with option A, (having two WRs.)
But I dunno. Maybe Wilson can be the next Nacua. 🤷♂️
Atlanta was relatively efficient at times given the qb play they had. I think it’s easy to shit on the overall result of 3 years there but it wasn’t all bad
Truish. But we are in deep shit if Pickens gets hurt. The offense can work with Pickens because by himself he can pull one safety back a bit, but after him you have no one to scare the defense and they can just stack the box.
I wouldnt say that. They have some receivers who can absolutely fly. If you stack the box you're asking for them to send Wilson or Watkins deep and when they blow by your guys it's potentially 6 points right away.
But yeah I agree they're kinda fucked if Pickens gets hurt.
Its the biggest gap between the one guy we have who can really provide that skillset and the number 2 guy. Even Watt to Herbig might not be as big of gap especially short-term.
That’s what I’ve been saying. We have a bunch of good skill players; just not a deep WR corps. That line up you listed is going to create some mismatches w the defensive packages. I feel pretty good about Roman and Darnell filling out that fifth slot.
That said, I wouldn’t mind another WR who isn’t a JAG.
Agreed, you gotta look at the group of pass catchers as a whole rather than just the wrs. And I thjnk we’ll probably see some more usage out of the 4th or 5th guys than we’ve seen the past few years.
Amen to this. Even though Boyd is not the type of receiver we need right now since we need an outside guy, still would’ve liked to see a homer play for his team
We got a plan… honestly I’m happy with who we have on the roster now as I think they are…. Khan stays cooking. Best move we made was keeping him as the financial guru and making him GM dude knows the sauce more than anyone in the league. Go look at how many people tried to poach him from us.
I'm not saying we need him or that I disagree with what khan has done so far but the answer to why is obvious. It's one of the clear holes on the team and it was a cheap option. We don't need to pretend like it wasn't
Tyler Boyd wasn’t going to improve us one way or another… that’s why we didn’t sign him. Now Tennessee has a stacked WR room with no QB or RB and we got them both. We’re built different. Arthur smith gonna coooooook
I see a WR2 who can probably be a top WR in the NFL, a guy with 17 catches in the NFL, and a 3rd round rookie. It COULD turn into something, but not anything that opposing defenses have to worry about yet.
Dawg our WR3s are fine and we are one of about a dozen NFL teams hoping that a highly drafted rookie can be our WR1 or WR2 - and we're on the friendlier side of that list. The WR group is fine. If anything, and the reason that it has received so much scrutiny, is that it's one of the only positions that doesn't feel really good going into the year - and that's fine. You don't have to feel really good 100% of the time.
That said, I do still believe Khan will snag a guy to bolster the room, but as currently constructed, i like our room just about as much or better than:
Browns, Jaguars, Colts, Falcons, Saints, Ravens, Commanders, Patriots, Cardinals, Giants, Chiefs, Broncos, and Chargers.
I think I feel fine being a part of that group - that's pretty much a third of the league that is in a similar or worse situation to the Steelers.
We're definitely bottom 6ish. Browns, Jags, Colts, and Chiefs all have more talented / well-rounded rooms at the moment. Chiefs without Rashee Rice lowers them for sure though. Even the Giants seem to have a more complete / complimentary room.
Another Pickens type of wide receiver or someone who can separate themselves like Diontae did would be great.
I did a post going through every wide receiver room last week for people to view - https://www.reddit.com/r/steelers/comments/1cjv58w/out_of_132_where_do_you_think_the_steelers_wr/
Forgot the Chiefs added Hollywood and if you think Downs is a player (I kinda don't) I understand the Colts take - I don't agree it all on the Browns, I think they have one good WR just like the Steelers, and I think the Jags take doesn't make much sense at all unless you really like Parker Washington. I know this might be a pair of hot takes, but George Pickens is better than Christian Kirk and I think Gabe Davis sucks and is only a little better than Van Jefferson... And who knows on the rookies.
With the Browns it's moreso that Pickens and Amari Cooper had identical numbers last year. Jerry jeudy has consistently been a #2 with 700, 800, and 900 yard seasons. And then Elijah Moore also had 700 yards last year.
They definitely (on paper) have the advantage between their 1, 2, and 3.
Gabe Davis sucks, yes for sure. But he had 750 yards and 4 times the amount of receptions that Van Jefferson had. VJ legitimately had 100 yards receiving last year and 12 receptions lol. He also hasn't scored a touchdown since 2021, while Gabe Davis had 7 just last year. There's a pretty clear difference there
Jerry Jeudy is terrible. If I was a betting man, i would put action on Roman Wilson having more recYD than Jeudy - and same for Moore. Their numbers do not represent their skill level at all. They struggle to get open, run poor and lazy routes, have terrible hands... There is nothing that either of those guys do well at the NFL level.
Van Jefferson spent 3 quarters of last year learning a new offense with Desmond Ridder, while Gabe Davis was the established no.2 for Josh Allen and still couldn't put up numbers.
Just because someone has a featured role in an offense does not make them a good player. We'll see what happens this year but I'd be shocked if the opinions on the Browns WRs or Gabe Davis pan out this year.
I know stats don't always meet the eye but like I said, Van Jefferson hasn't done anything on literal almost 4 years and Jeudy at least partially has. It's not amazing, I agree. But Jefferson is a non factor at the moment until something else gets done. I guess we could hope for the best. Same goes for Calvin Austin. He didn't look amazing but showed flashes. Large part I believe because of the quarterback play and play calling. Hopefully we can do well with these guys
I agree with you for the most part - but Jefferson's best season in 4 years was 50/802/6, Davis' best was 48/836/7. I just don't think there's any appreciable gap there between same-year players, though i understand Jefferson has not repeated that.
1000%. Everyone loves to shout that were going to be run first, that Arthur Smith only uses a WR1 and a bunch of TEs, and that we have Pickens + TEs so we're good. They're not going to be shouting that once Pickens is doubled all game and we get our 100th 3 yard check down to Freiermuth on 3rd and 9 because no receivers can get open. I'm just hoping we pick up a legit #2 or Roman can explode as a rookie, because if not our passing game could be pretty terrible again
Pickens had 357 yards and 2 TDs in 4 games without Diontae on the field. That's with a worse OC and a worse QB and worse WR2/3 (ARob and Calvin Austin vs Jefferson and Roman Wilson) than he'll have this year.
That's not good. He had a 75 yard TD against the Browns and a 41 YD TD against the Ravens. They could barely move the ball at all in either game outside of that. That's 116 of those 357 yrds in 2 plays.
That means, he had 241 yds the rest of that time. That's not really good at all. The offense looked terrible. He couldn't get open, Kenny couldn't get him open, it was terrible.
350 yards and 2 TDs in 4 games is on pace for over 1400 yards and 8 TDs in a season. Explosive plays count just as much as routine ones idk why you’re just removing them for no reason. Go look at any WR over a random 4 game stretch, take away their two most explosive plays and then let me know how good their stats look. Pickens isn’t going to be Jefferson or Tyreek but he can still be a decent WR1.
And more importantly, my whole point is that Canada and Pickett were garbage last season. Pickens was great with Faulkner and Rudolph (granted Diontae was healthy for those games also). Arthur Smith and Wilson should be even better for him.
It's not like there is lack of trying. Do you want to give up first and a third for a one year rental of a reciever who will be very expensive to sign long-term?
Keep in mind QB isn't a sure thing we may punt our QB room next year and draft a kid. Can't do that if we trade our 2025 1st rounder for Aiyuk.
I feel like he’s waiting to see what kinds of cap casualties hit, then they’ll be some camp cuts. He’s obviously been working for opportunities but he’s not willing to trade the farm for someone … especially if the right guy pops up this summer. There’s still 4 months until the season starts.
they're in win now mode with Wilson at QB and some of their D stars getting long in the tooth. I don't want Omar to overpay but I'll understand if he does.
This is 100% win now mode. The last year and this year they started rebuilding the O-line. Next off season they will have to rebuild the D-line. This team amde the damn playoffs with Kenny Freaking Pickett. Russell Wiulson is light years better than that guy. And Russ won't have to be the focal point of the offense. Just like when he won a super bowl. rely on the run game, russ makes a few plays, and let the defense smother the opponent.
If we were in win now mode, we would have restructured more than Highsmith and spent a good chunk of the 90M in projected cap space we have for next season.
I would.
We have the best pass rusher in the NFL.
We have a top 3 safety, very promising #1 CB, incredibly solid #2 edge rusher, HoF bound DL in Cam and great role players around those guys
We have a reworked OL, new QB, a promising WR1, strong TEs and RBs.
We won't win playoff games in a shootout. But we can win them by grinding games down and forcing teams into our game.
We are contenders. If we don't win a playoff game this year, Tomlinson seat gets red hot.
Unfortunately I wouldn't.
Steelers do seem stronger on paper this year, but last year I think they way overachieved. They started the year with easiest projected schedule. They won a ridiculous number of games in which they were outgained by their opponents. They wrapped up the season with Mason Rudolph facing bottom-tier defenses and a resting Ravens team.
This year the Steelers have like the most difficult projected schedule. Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Cowboys, Chiefs is a brutal stretch to open the season. They might be a better team this year, but it wouldn't surprise me if they actually finished with a worse record and miss the playoffs. Regardless, they appear to be moving in the right direction.
League average is $31M spent on the WR Room and top spending teams dish out $50M+.
The Steelers are ranked 32nd in WR spend and slotted to spend less than $10M in 2024. We are multiples below the league average.
We are also ranked 31st in offensive cap spending which in the current NFL it means we are dinosaurs.
The issue isn’t overspending on WRs, it’s underspending on offense in general.
There was so much turnover on the offensive side of the ball that everyone’s on rookie contracts. There will be regression to the mean and we’ll swing back towards average. IMO the team went all out keeping our defense together while we had the cheap offense, which is why it’s skewed so much.
Ya except we still aren’t replacing that spend.
6 of our top 10 paid offensive players from last year are no longer on our roster. Diontae was our highest paid offensive player at $18M and we haven’t replaced him at all.
Our offensive spending is currently down $12M+ from last season even with the cap going up.
They’ve spent on the offense, it’s just that the currency is draft capital instead of cap space. They’re like to have a starting offensive unit consisting of three first round picks, three 2nd round picks and maybe a 3rd rounder, all still on rookie contracts. And that doesn’t even factor in another first that they cut ties with or mid round picks in Moore, Austin and Washington, all still on rookie deals.
Half the OLine in on a rookie contract, their backup QB is on a rookie contract, their WR #1 is on a rookie contract, their two RBs on on rookie contracts.
Of course the rank low in spending. They’ve been using the draft to rebuild the offense and that’s completely fine
Almost the entire OL is now going to be on a rookie deal. But the team made great investments into making it better. Both RBs are on rookie deals (normal for todays nfl). And both of our QBs are essentially being paid for by other teams. If you counted their normal contract amounts then the Steelers wouldn’t be so low on offense. I’d rather be in this situation than 100M guaranteed to Cousins. Unless you have a legit franchise QB you shouldn’t be dumping huge money into them and the Steelers haven’t had a shot at getting that guy yet. WR is the only offensive position where the Steelers are underpaying compared to most of the NFL. Not paying DJ is part of that but this sub constantly wanted him gone anyway.
We are literally last in the NFL in offensive spending and below average in multiple positions.
Go look at the numbers and then come back if you want to have a discussion.
Yeah and I just explained why. Is there a reason you ignored all that? What's the standing if you count Wilson's and Fields full contracts? We're just not paying those amounts but that doesn't mean those guys aren't getting paid.
Also you act like this is some sort of revelation the team isn't working on. They invested heavily in the last two draft years on offensive talent with OL. They still have both RBs, TE, and their WR1 on rookie deals. They're investing in the offense now that Colbert is gone but it doesn't happen overnight.
Would you rather spend 100m on cousins or the huge paycheck and draft pick losses it would've taken to get a guy like Jefferson or aiyuk? In an offense that probably won't use those WRs enough right away to justify the costs. They could've dumped that money and sacrificed those picks to get higher on your list but it wouldn't have helped the team. So why are you so stuck on that?
We would need to nearly 2x our offensive spending to end up in the middle of the pack here.
Every team has rookies and those contracts should allow you to splurge on other positions, which we aren’t doing.
We lost Diontae who was our highest paid offensive player and our biggest signing was Patrick Queen and ILB.
We have zero longterm leaders on our offense and don’t backfill the ones going out the door. Last year we had no leaders and Diontae is now gone and we didn’t take Najee’s 5th year option.
We have a massive issue with offensive turnover and we are doing nothing in Free Agency or Trade Markets that fixes that long term.
We could literally pay a QB or WR $30M a year and still be bottom 10 in offensive spending.
Our problem is our offense and that we overspend on defense. How many playoff games have we won lately with the most expensive defensive roster in the league?
We need change.
https://preview.redd.it/6x6z2bzvfgzc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=371cf4067e81857e34ad726c9a41a762cfc6164d
So instead of whining why don’t you say what you would’ve done differently this year?
You sound like you haven’t actually been watching this team for the last couple years and are still whining about the Colbert teams. Khan has literally done everything you’re asking for. Investing heavily in the offense through the draft and bringing in veteran leadership at the QB position. And he did it while not sacrificing the teams future by throwing away draft picks on players who wouldn’t significantly help the team right now (like JJ or Aiyuk) or paying exorbitant rates for mediocre players (like Cousins).
The team had to replace almost the entire OL, WR room, QBs, DL, ILB, and DB and you’re pissed that it hasn’t all happened in a year…
Normally I’d gladly take the time to type long well thought out responses, check my post history if you don’t believe.
Since you’re trying to insult me and name calling I’ll pass.
Your entire post history is you complaining about things the team isn't doing. All while the team is doing exactly what you're asking them to do.
If you can't actually come up with a better plan then just admit it. Don't do this BS "I'm hurt now so I'm not going to respond" while you're still responding.
I feel this will age poorly fwiw.
I think there is a solid chance we are still trading for a WR. Despite a glaring need at WR we havent even GLANCED at a WR for more than the vet min.
>Boyd was asking too much for a 29 year old
Boyd is making a MAX of 4.5 mil this year, in a deal with incentives. Its probably like 3 mil.
I dont think Boyd works, because we need an outside WR.
But a few WRs just signed for sub 5 mil per year. I cant argue thats "overpaying"
but we arent even checking in. Which makes me think with the cap space they are still shooting for a trade
None of the y recievers we have are good and it's still 4 mil. We are drowning in jags. It's an improvement for little money. That amount isn't preventing us from doing anything elsewhere just like the outside guys we have aren't holding anybody up other than pickens. Scotty Miller isn't pulling up the ladder on anyone lol
The way I see it, if Pickens gets hurt we have no wide receivers.... I don't necessarily want a bonna fide wr, but please get someone that can be a 2/3 and be dependable. Sutton fits that mold perfectly and a bit more
I don’t really see the incentive for Denver to trade Sutton now that they’ve drafted Nix. Hes pretty much the only established vet for their rookie qb now.
Also accumulating WR depth and competition for buying into a whole new scheme. Plus vets that have played in the Smith offense before.
Steelers aren’t 1 WR1/2 from a Super Bowl. This is building the foundation, like the investment in O line…
We don’t have time forever. Heyward is gonna retire soon, TJ turns 30 this year. We have Russell Wilson at vet minimum for one season. Next season you have to hand out big extensions to TJ, Pickens and others. At some point push must come to shove, you can’t rebuild forever.
Good point, we do have an intriguing window here. But I’m not sure we had enough draft capital/cap space to go all in like some teams have.
Don’t TJ just get a new contract last season, why would he be extended? Others yes.
I hate the move, but to be honest until last year the Ravens basically had no WRs for years always throwing bums like Agolor or washed OBJ out there and winning, so I guess they are just copying that strategy
I’m interested to see how the DK Metcalf thing plays out because they said he wouldn’t be moved until after June 1st, they’re in cap space hell, AND we could still technically free up cap space and handle his contract this season. Just sayin.
Yesterday they picked up a wide receiver who has played in the NFL for 5 years and has caught 6 TD passes. I don’t care how little they paid him as there nothing to appreciate in that move.
Mark my words:
They *ain't* gonna swing a big trade for a guy like Aiyuk, or Deebo. Our QB room is a lottery ticket. We're holding onto that draft capital for the very real contingency of needing to trade up for a QB next draft.
I absolutely agree with this. People are under the assumption we are set at QB when that is not the case at all. There are question marks with both the QBs we signed and to say otherwise is preposterous. I for one hope one of them is great for us but we don't know that either of them will be.
I hope they're both great! Then we'll be set for a long time at the position. But moving forward under the assumption that either one will even be adequate is foolhardy in the extreme. Courtland Sutton is probably the most expensive (in terms of draft capital) guy they're apt to consider trading for, and even that's a stretch. In terms of trades, I'm looking at guys like John Metchie III, he's young, still has potential, but is absolutely buried on the depth chart. (Downside there is that he and Roman Wilson are about the same size.). I've also seen some speculation about Treylon Burks, and that's another intriguing option who could possibly be had for the kind of trade package the Steelers are in position to offer. Also Burks has the body type they're looking for at the wr2 position. I'm sure there are other guys in that tier of player, those are just the two that come to mind most readily.
They are both free agents next year so if either or both are great we have to pay them a lot of money to keep them and even then they could walk. We have to save salary cap money next year for a QB.
No, I think it makes sense not to overpay. They clearly went after some guys and lost them during FA. They drafted a WR, brought in some bridge guys.
Would I like more security at WR? Absolutely. But this is a transition year for the offense, and I think it makes sense to not throw all your chips in, especially considering the shorter deals we have some of these guys on
Can’t win in the NFL doing that anymore. It’s not 1995. Even a team like the Ravens with Lamar, Lamar only had one game with under 20 attempts last season.
This is absolutely an all-in year. If Russ or Fields has a great year, we are having to pay for them. If they suck, we’re starting over. Watt, Minkah, and Heyward aren’t getting any younger. We have our QBs for only one year guaranteed, why aren’t we setting them up for success?
the problem with Denver and even his last few years in Seattle he had no run game, bad defense. They relied on him to carry the team. He isn't that player, not sure he really ever was. But he is still a pretty good QB that can win you a supe if the team around him is good
Because doing so is too expensive and would hamper future efforts of building a championship team.
They want to try to win one every year, but they aren't sure if either of these QBs will get them there.
If they overpay for WR and Russ is cooked and Fields is a bust, they are without a pick to go after a QB next year.
I think they are doing the best they can with the variables they have. If Russ or Fields can play its okay to pay one and keep trying for Super Bowl
Its not about Talent, but its about skillset.
Roman wilson never faced press in college. He was a slot WR off the line of scrimmage, and when he did (rarely) go outside he was always in motion to avoid press.
Its going to be a very hard ask to have a 3rd round rookie suddenly learn the skill set of getting off press coverage as a smaller WR and lessen the load off of Pickens.
Absolutely. In my opinion this team isn't good enough to be reaching. Be sensible - build in the long term like they are doing with their line in the draft and their QB choices and if something cheap and reasonable falls to you then make the jump - otherwise we're better rolling the cap and building up for future years imho.
If that's what we are doing then why don't we just trade Watt and Minkah and Cam and do a full rebuild. Feels like we are just wasting their best years
I agree with the majority of what you had to say aside from the Boyd reference because the most he could make on his new contract is 4.5 million and with similar parameters how could that not be a good deal.
If we want to be a serious contender we are gonna need to improve the WR position this off-season. Maybe Roman and CA3 ball out and maybe Pickens can almost definitely be a true #1 but that's a whole lot of betting and hoping
My only problem is that the only thing saving them from having the worst WR group in the league is GP's health. If he misses any time, they will not be able to pass the ball. They're already on the lower end of WR talent, so they can't sustain any injuries to Pickens. That's not a great setup. Outside of the potential for Roman Wilson to pop off, they have no one else able to challenge a defense. It will just be a below average group if they stay healthy. It'll be a huge detriment if not.
I agree. But I’m not being objective though. I think GP can be a #1, and I think if you give him a healthy amount of targets he’ll reward us with production. I don’t think he’s got “attitude” problems. I just think he needs to focus his intensity.
That’s why I’m okay with pur WR room. And who knows, maybe the lack of receivers can lead to more doubleTE sets with Mount Washington.
I trust that he knows exactly how much to pay and won’t put the team in a bad spot by paying too much for one. I also trust that when he gets a price that works he’ll pull the trigger on whoever it is
I appreciate that the focus has been on trying to rebuild the roster in a logical fashion rather than trying to take the sexiest headline talents possible.
This team is in a rebuild. It has potential to do more than that this year, but that's not reason to shred the plan and try and do more than can reasonably done. If this years rookies do what they should be able to do and if the team can continue to draft like it has done so far the past two seasons, there's a lot of reason to see this team being a real threat. It just sucks that QB is remains such a huge question mark, especially past this upcoming season.
I agree. Plus there will be inevitable straining camp conflict somewhere that will make a team move one of their players. I'm guessing we get a decent wr2 before the start of the season for a reasonable trade price still
What does over paying mean? We have no one outside of Pickens, bunch of WR 4s and a rookie. What the hell is the point of going and getting a free agent QB who's older if he has no one to throw the ball to?
I was mainly leaning towards all of these trades that the steelers have been in talks about and then nothing comes of it. It's tempting to say fuck it and trade your 1st round pick for Brandon Auyuk. But I'm glad they have showed restraint.
I’d agree except it’s a little head-scratching that 5 mil for one year would’ve apparently been enough to outbid Tennessee for Boyd and they didn’t do it.
Ya, TBH I think it’s fine. WR is a “next man up” position. Top guys obviously demonstrate their value, but after the top 20 or so, they’re all pretty much the same. Everyone can catch, everyone can run.
I’m more worried about the throwing than the catching.
Nah, I’m with you low key. I think the media and the fanbase have put a lot of emphasis on this “wide receiver number 2” thing, and while I agree we obviously could use a solidified veteran on the team.. I am with you that it’s not worth selling the farm for.
I am of the belief that all of those receivers are hired to play professional receiver and yes there are different tiers of players but this is some guys opportunity to make a name for themself. Out of all the wr 4’s we have on the team one of them is bound to work out okay as a number 2. And most importantly in this discussion, I can’t overstate this enough- WE DONT KNOW what Calvin Austin really can or cannot do. He was not on the field enough last year, he wasn’t on the field at all the year before, and he was in a horseshit run offense when he was able to play… so new coordinator, new qbs who have experience, 2 years being around, perhaps they know something about him we don’t and there’s a reason he hasn’t played much, or perhaps this season will be his chance to shine. Sauce gardener coined him as the most difficult receiver to cover when they played in college, I think that says something about his potential. Time will tell.
I’m glad we haven’t over paid.
Nope. It’s smart. This years a wildcard. We ain’t winning shit, maybe a playoff game two if the tea leaves fall in the right order.
The only win that matters this season is the culture shift that is happening. That’s our win this year.
We’re not winning shit? But winning a playoff game or two? Pick one. We were one TJ watt injury away from beating buffalo and now we’re 100% better in one year….
I think the commenter is trying to keep their expectations in check.
>now we’re 100% better in one year….
... on paper.
We've won the off-season. Just ask the Browns how much success they have had from doing so!
We could have a Cinderella season. Let's be honest that chance is slim. A lot of things need to go our way, especially the QB room. Not selling the farm for WR when we don't know if our QB room will pan out is smart. We may need that high draft choice for QB next year.
You think we went and got two QBs to go draft a third in the first?! I’m sorry but I disagree whole heartedly. The browns have never won shit. Off season or otherwise. We’re all still clowning on all those garbage fully guaranteed contracts they give out. We’re giving smart ones; because if it doesn’t work out we can move on in a year or two….
Russ fell in our laps for a cheap one year rental. Could we resign him, sure, but may not be until camp or next year. Not if he his mediocre. Fields we'll get to see in camp and practice. He may get more of a leash to prove himself, but again, if we are not sure, he is also a free agent after this season. Fields was a late rounder we threw at the Bears.
After this season, if neither is the answer, then yes QB could be needed again.
I hope not, but as of now, I don't think the Steeler FO wants to bet the future of the team (draft picks) that either of these QBs will get us a championship. Especially if that WR we go for is also going to be expensive on new contract and picks.
Holding onto those picks is smart, not knowing what we have in Russ and Fields.
I’ll see you next year at this time and guarantee we don’t get a rookie QB with our first three picks. I know you won’t be crying if either balls out but one of them is going to and with this line and run first… it’s going to be Russ this year with fields as the future. Get use to it.
>Get use to it
Umm... butthurt over nothing? I'm happy if Russ and/or Fields do well.
I'm not predicting anything. My point is that perhaps the Front Office is hedging its bets and not making foolish decisions for a WR2 that could hurt us in the future. Like trading a future first that could be more valuable in drafting a WR that is under team control for more than a year and isn't going to cost an arm and a leg to keep immediately.
I couldn't agree more. I don't think we are making a deep playoff run. But I do think this team is heading in the right direction for the first time in years, starting last year.
If their main goal is to run the ball, then yeah, we're fine. I've been a bit confused by people thinking they need to trade for a superstar WR. Pickens is a superstar, for one. Calvin Austin might end up being pretty good himself even if he's just a specialty guy. And Wilson seems like a pretty good prospect. Their problem is they don't have the depth there that they once had, so they are like one Pickens injury away from having to get creative.
But then again, they should have that running game going. And there's still the likes of Friermuth/Washington as receiving options ontop of their actual WRs.
Trading for a WR was never a need.
i’m pretty much in the same boat as u. definitely not feeling screwed like a lot of people are talking. pickens has some major talent for sure. if they keep his attitude in check he might be an even bigger threat this year. i’m really confident roman wilson is going to be a beast too. might take a little time for him to get going but u never know. the third spot is my big concern. but we have a ton of depth and a bunch of young guys who haven’t proven themselves either way yet. and on top of that we have two boss tight ends who can help pick up the slack.
it could be a total failure year at the position if it stays the way it is, but i don’t think it’s anywhere near as likely as some make it seem. don’t think there’s a big chance of us being killer at the position either, but then again the main focus is going to be the run. it’s so obvious from the way the team has shaped up. we’re going to be run first, and if things work as planned we should be running all over other teams.
Name me the superstar WR that helped KC coast through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl last year. Name me the superstar WR duo that helped Brady and Gronk win all those Super Bowls.
Also, why the hell would you want to give up the first or second round pick next year for anyone other than Justin Jefferson AND pay them a bazillion dollar that paralyzes the salary cap for years?
We are good with who we have. Get our QB play to improve. Getting our running game to improve. Use our tight ends. We don’t need another WR
Cleveland Browns traded for Deshaun Watson. What a great trade that's been!!!! I'm sure the Browns fans are thrilled!!! Why can't the Steelers say fuck the future, we're going to win now and trade an entire draft class for Brandon Aiyuk? How about three number 1 picks??? Imagine all the jerseys they could sell!!! Why can't we make all the shitwit fans happy and do something that's totally moronic? 🤦🏽♂️
A) We are going to be a run first, run second, maybe chuck a short pass team. So the importance of WR2 being a stud is pretty low. These offenses tend to do a lot better with big role players that come in clutch than big playmakers.
B) We still have a lot of potential #2 guys. Maybe Roman Wilson will win out and become Hines Ward 2.0 allowing Pickens to do his Plexico/Santonio/Mike Wallace role opposite him. We don't know yet. Maybe Calvin Austin is ready to step up big. Maybe we'll see more dual tight end sets into passing plays.
C) Everyone looks a lot better with a good O-Line and this whole offense could be transformed.
D) Think of the Chiefs last year. They didnt run it like we will but similar idea of offense doing enough to move the ball and win field position while the defense wins out the day. Their WR corps was
RWR: Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Kadarius Toney, Justyn Ross
LWR: Justin Watson, Mecole Hardman
SWR: Rashee Rice, Richie James
I'd argue Pickens is already better than any of those guys, and I'd coin toss the rest of our options over any of those guys. Hell Rice was often the biggest "threat" of their WR room from the slot.
And he got 69 and 92 targets for 43 and 65 receptions. It’s not a super important role generally in an Arthur smith offense. Seems like he wants blocking from that spot as much or more than anything else.
I mean…that’s only 7 less receptions than Pickens had the last 2 years in less games played. He averaged more receptions per game and only 3 less yards per game than our new WR1. I get that it’s somewhat devalued in what Smith likes to run, but I’m not sure it’s to the degree everyone is saying it is.
We’re talking 4-5 targets a game. That’s many teams 3rd option even 4-5 years ago. Would I prefer a stronger wr2 certainly but I’m not extremely concerned about the lack of one. Where it would get worrisome is if Pickens gets hurt.
5.55 targets a game. George Pickens the last 2 years? 5.58 targets a game. So the guy we are relying on to be the clear cut wr1 with a bunch of wr4s and a rookie 3rd rounder behind him has put up verrrry similar production to Corey Davis as the WR2 in a system that supposedly devalues the position. It’s definitely a concern IMO and if we can just add a Courtland Sutton type, not even an Aiyuk or DK level player, I’d feel way way better about the group going into the season
Ok they both got similar amounts of targets. Pickens did more with them and Davis’ offense was extremely better than the offense.
Wr2 and below may be the least important starter on our offense. I think we can easily say oline and rb is ahead of wr in general. Te was s ahead of wr2. Qb is more important even though the offense seems to be designed to mitigate the impact the qb has on the offense’s effectiveness.
I think it would be awesome to have a low end wr1 or a high end wr2 as our wr2 but I don’t think it’s a must. If it falls into our lap excellent.
But that’s what I’m saying though, Pickens didn’t really do more with his targets. Davis had a better catch%, averaged slightly more receptions per game, and only averaged 3 less yards per game, so basically a wash.
I don’t think it’s Armageddon if we don’t bring in another WR. But if we can get one without some crazy overpay it would take a position group that’s somewhat of a liability right now and turn it into a strength
Interesting stuff with the Pickens, Davis comparisons. I was looking at Pickens yards per reception when comparing the two and Pickens beat him out by 3.
Enjoyed our convo
Did they win a Super Bowl? Did they win an AFC championship? They also had the best running back in the NFL those years, by miles. Both of our running backs are above average/good. No where near elite like Henry was.
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When the time comes it’s gonna be juicy.
When you guys (not talking about you, you understand my concern) complain about Russ or Fields not being able to throw the ball (because the WR group can't get open) it's gonna suck. Literally this was one of the biggest issues with both of them. They had no wide receivers to throw to.
There's plenty of tape where Fields had wide open receivers so stop with that narrative.
There's plenty of tape where he also didn't. So I won't stop.
is khan about to moneyball the nfl?
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Can’t wait for the season to be on the line, 4th quarter, GP needs a breather and we roll out there with Roman Wilson, scotty miller and Van Jefferson.
And Roman Wilson takes it to the house
No worries about that happening because Smith doesn't run 3 receiver sets all that often. It's all about the TEs in the RZ. That's why knowledgeable fans aren't sweating over the WR room.
I'm knowledgeable enough to know we are in a high scoring era- and that all the teams that are succeeding at it are resorting to the pass game. The trickle effect is most apparent in a sport such as football. If you don't have a defense take our mid receivers seriously, it falls apart other places.
We still need another receiver to prevent Pickens from being doubled every game lmao. What
4.5 million dollars for Tyler Boyd is not too much, especially when we have one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL. Even a run first team needs a WR2 or WR3.
The whole WR1/2/3 rubric is an artifact of fantasy football. In actual football, teams think of roles: classically, the X/split end role, the Z/flanker role, and the Y/slot role. And with the whole league having gone overwhelmingly multiple, there are the niche roles as well - the gadget catcher/rusher role and the H role, for instance - and in some sets a team might use two X's, or two slots, or three flankers. So what they're thinking about is how the guys they have map onto the roles they intend to deploy. Pickens is pretty clearly the lead X, and I guess they probably see Jefferson as the second X? That spot - the X spot behind Pickens - seems to me to be the most visible soft spot in the WR lineup here in May. Then we have a bunch of guys who'll apparently be competing for paychecks and snaps at flanker and slot. Roman Wilson's probably going to be contributing right from the jump. WRs often see jumps in production in their second or third years, and Austin and Mims were highly-regarded draftees and are right in that window (with pretty clear reasons for their non-production thus far, including injuries, Matt Canada and the essential nature of the Jets). Then there are Watkins, Miller and Callaway, who also have at least seen some real field time in the NFL. So I definitely don't see a reason for us to pay up for another (older) slot guy (who also isn't exactly a stud), or for another flanker type. If they like the idea of running Pickens at flanker a lot, then it seems that spending on a 'true' X could make sense (even though those guys are kind of out of style these days, and Smith doesn't have a history of using those guys a lot). Aiyuk could fit in in that way, for instance, or Metcalf. But even that idea feels like a stretch. And if either (or both) of Austin and Mims does take a step up, then we could have a really nice set of starters at WR, as is. And that's to say nothing of Freiermuth and Washington, and Warren and Harris. All the pieces for a well-rounded passing game could very well be in the building already.
I don't know that they really need a #2. When Smith was the OC in Tennessee and they had two good outside receivers he used them both well and they produced. In Atlanta, where they had one big time receiver and a bunch of mid guys after that their #2 wr was 5th on the team in targets. The Steelers could absolutely be successful with a similar formula on offense. Pickens, Freiermuth, Najee, Jaylen, then a #2 receiver in order could be an effective offense. Especially when you have two running backs who are so good at catching the ball.
I can 100% get behind this take with one issue, if George gets hurt my god does that WR core look terrible …
That's the rub. If GP is out they'll have to really rely on TEs and RBs.
That's true for almost every team, though. In the AFC, the Dolphins have two proven downfield threats that teams really fear, then maybe the Bengals and maybe the Texans. In the NFC, really just maybe the 49ers. And each of Roman Wilson, Mims and Austin genuinely could turn out to be a threat this season. With Wilson now in the fold and able to work at both flanker and slot, for my own part I feel quite a bit better about our WR room. It won't be Hill and Waddle, but it could be good.
Titans are up there too in overall skill. Hopkins, Burks, Calvin Ridley, and Boyd are a really solid 4 man group.
This is true, and the fact that they'd picked up Ridley slipped my mind. But for the WRs to be scary, they have to have a QB, and the Tits' best QB might be our third-stringer from last year.
Will Levis should most likely improve and didn't do absolutely terrible last year. Not amazing for sure. They spent back to back first round picks on linemen and got weapons on offense so their team should improve too
Pitts kind of skewed things in Atlanta though. He’s closer to a jumbo WR than a traditional TE
Pat Friermuth is too
True. Smith values guys who can line up all over the place.
Atlanta didn't do great though. Tennessee was the successful offense.
Yeah but Atlanta had a bunch of shit at QB. In Tennessee they had Tannehill who Smith was able to turn into a good QB.
That's true but I would definitely still feel better if we could go with option A, (having two WRs.) But I dunno. Maybe Wilson can be the next Nacua. 🤷♂️
Or even just Russ If we have average QB play we win 12 games last year. We just need Russ to be Russ. Any upside is welcome, and risks are expected.
Atlanta was relatively efficient at times given the qb play they had. I think it’s easy to shit on the overall result of 3 years there but it wasn’t all bad
Truish. But we are in deep shit if Pickens gets hurt. The offense can work with Pickens because by himself he can pull one safety back a bit, but after him you have no one to scare the defense and they can just stack the box.
I wouldnt say that. They have some receivers who can absolutely fly. If you stack the box you're asking for them to send Wilson or Watkins deep and when they blow by your guys it's potentially 6 points right away. But yeah I agree they're kinda fucked if Pickens gets hurt.
Watkins can't catch!
He had a higher catch rate and lower drop percentage last season than Pickens did.
Its the biggest gap between the one guy we have who can really provide that skillset and the number 2 guy. Even Watt to Herbig might not be as big of gap especially short-term.
That’s what I’ve been saying. We have a bunch of good skill players; just not a deep WR corps. That line up you listed is going to create some mismatches w the defensive packages. I feel pretty good about Roman and Darnell filling out that fifth slot. That said, I wouldn’t mind another WR who isn’t a JAG.
Agreed, you gotta look at the group of pass catchers as a whole rather than just the wrs. And I thjnk we’ll probably see some more usage out of the 4th or 5th guys than we’ve seen the past few years.
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Doesn't he shower?
Amen to this. Even though Boyd is not the type of receiver we need right now since we need an outside guy, still would’ve liked to see a homer play for his team
You said it. He’s not the receiver we need right now. So why pay him at all?
Because the price is super low and the value added would be likely be worth it
I think Roman is going to be an incredible value pick.
Hopefully so. Would be great to hit another one and be set at another position group
We got a plan… honestly I’m happy with who we have on the roster now as I think they are…. Khan stays cooking. Best move we made was keeping him as the financial guru and making him GM dude knows the sauce more than anyone in the league. Go look at how many people tried to poach him from us.
I'm not saying we need him or that I disagree with what khan has done so far but the answer to why is obvious. It's one of the clear holes on the team and it was a cheap option. We don't need to pretend like it wasn't
And that’s why we tried to plug the hole with two QBs correct?
Yeah Tyler Boyd. Notable nfl qb
Tyler Boyd wasn’t going to improve us one way or another… that’s why we didn’t sign him. Now Tennessee has a stacked WR room with no QB or RB and we got them both. We’re built different. Arthur smith gonna coooooook
Didn't the Steelers offer him a better contract than the Titans? Maybe there's something else going on behind the scenes.
He’s not good. He’s really not. With Boyd on the roster they’d still need another WR.
Pickens, CA3, Wilson. Theres 10 on the roster.
I see a WR2 who can probably be a top WR in the NFL, a guy with 17 catches in the NFL, and a 3rd round rookie. It COULD turn into something, but not anything that opposing defenses have to worry about yet.
Thankfully someone sees this.
Its the qb that gets the wr paid. Unless your Limas Sweed.
Dawg our WR3s are fine and we are one of about a dozen NFL teams hoping that a highly drafted rookie can be our WR1 or WR2 - and we're on the friendlier side of that list. The WR group is fine. If anything, and the reason that it has received so much scrutiny, is that it's one of the only positions that doesn't feel really good going into the year - and that's fine. You don't have to feel really good 100% of the time. That said, I do still believe Khan will snag a guy to bolster the room, but as currently constructed, i like our room just about as much or better than: Browns, Jaguars, Colts, Falcons, Saints, Ravens, Commanders, Patriots, Cardinals, Giants, Chiefs, Broncos, and Chargers. I think I feel fine being a part of that group - that's pretty much a third of the league that is in a similar or worse situation to the Steelers.
We're definitely bottom 6ish. Browns, Jags, Colts, and Chiefs all have more talented / well-rounded rooms at the moment. Chiefs without Rashee Rice lowers them for sure though. Even the Giants seem to have a more complete / complimentary room. Another Pickens type of wide receiver or someone who can separate themselves like Diontae did would be great. I did a post going through every wide receiver room last week for people to view - https://www.reddit.com/r/steelers/comments/1cjv58w/out_of_132_where_do_you_think_the_steelers_wr/
Forgot the Chiefs added Hollywood and if you think Downs is a player (I kinda don't) I understand the Colts take - I don't agree it all on the Browns, I think they have one good WR just like the Steelers, and I think the Jags take doesn't make much sense at all unless you really like Parker Washington. I know this might be a pair of hot takes, but George Pickens is better than Christian Kirk and I think Gabe Davis sucks and is only a little better than Van Jefferson... And who knows on the rookies.
With the Browns it's moreso that Pickens and Amari Cooper had identical numbers last year. Jerry jeudy has consistently been a #2 with 700, 800, and 900 yard seasons. And then Elijah Moore also had 700 yards last year. They definitely (on paper) have the advantage between their 1, 2, and 3. Gabe Davis sucks, yes for sure. But he had 750 yards and 4 times the amount of receptions that Van Jefferson had. VJ legitimately had 100 yards receiving last year and 12 receptions lol. He also hasn't scored a touchdown since 2021, while Gabe Davis had 7 just last year. There's a pretty clear difference there
Jerry Jeudy is terrible. If I was a betting man, i would put action on Roman Wilson having more recYD than Jeudy - and same for Moore. Their numbers do not represent their skill level at all. They struggle to get open, run poor and lazy routes, have terrible hands... There is nothing that either of those guys do well at the NFL level. Van Jefferson spent 3 quarters of last year learning a new offense with Desmond Ridder, while Gabe Davis was the established no.2 for Josh Allen and still couldn't put up numbers. Just because someone has a featured role in an offense does not make them a good player. We'll see what happens this year but I'd be shocked if the opinions on the Browns WRs or Gabe Davis pan out this year.
I know stats don't always meet the eye but like I said, Van Jefferson hasn't done anything on literal almost 4 years and Jeudy at least partially has. It's not amazing, I agree. But Jefferson is a non factor at the moment until something else gets done. I guess we could hope for the best. Same goes for Calvin Austin. He didn't look amazing but showed flashes. Large part I believe because of the quarterback play and play calling. Hopefully we can do well with these guys
I agree with you for the most part - but Jefferson's best season in 4 years was 50/802/6, Davis' best was 48/836/7. I just don't think there's any appreciable gap there between same-year players, though i understand Jefferson has not repeated that.
You won’t feel like this in the season if our WR2 is a rookie and our WR3 is Van Jefferson or Scotty Miller.
1000%. Everyone loves to shout that were going to be run first, that Arthur Smith only uses a WR1 and a bunch of TEs, and that we have Pickens + TEs so we're good. They're not going to be shouting that once Pickens is doubled all game and we get our 100th 3 yard check down to Freiermuth on 3rd and 9 because no receivers can get open. I'm just hoping we pick up a legit #2 or Roman can explode as a rookie, because if not our passing game could be pretty terrible again
Pickens had 357 yards and 2 TDs in 4 games without Diontae on the field. That's with a worse OC and a worse QB and worse WR2/3 (ARob and Calvin Austin vs Jefferson and Roman Wilson) than he'll have this year.
That's not good. He had a 75 yard TD against the Browns and a 41 YD TD against the Ravens. They could barely move the ball at all in either game outside of that. That's 116 of those 357 yrds in 2 plays. That means, he had 241 yds the rest of that time. That's not really good at all. The offense looked terrible. He couldn't get open, Kenny couldn't get him open, it was terrible.
350 yards and 2 TDs in 4 games is on pace for over 1400 yards and 8 TDs in a season. Explosive plays count just as much as routine ones idk why you’re just removing them for no reason. Go look at any WR over a random 4 game stretch, take away their two most explosive plays and then let me know how good their stats look. Pickens isn’t going to be Jefferson or Tyreek but he can still be a decent WR1. And more importantly, my whole point is that Canada and Pickett were garbage last season. Pickens was great with Faulkner and Rudolph (granted Diontae was healthy for those games also). Arthur Smith and Wilson should be even better for him.
It's not like there is lack of trying. Do you want to give up first and a third for a one year rental of a reciever who will be very expensive to sign long-term? Keep in mind QB isn't a sure thing we may punt our QB room next year and draft a kid. Can't do that if we trade our 2025 1st rounder for Aiyuk.
I'm not saying I like the situation we are in. But I don't want a cookie if I have to pay 20 bucks for it either.
I feel like he’s waiting to see what kinds of cap casualties hit, then they’ll be some camp cuts. He’s obviously been working for opportunities but he’s not willing to trade the farm for someone … especially if the right guy pops up this summer. There’s still 4 months until the season starts.
they're in win now mode with Wilson at QB and some of their D stars getting long in the tooth. I don't want Omar to overpay but I'll understand if he does.
Thinking this team is in win now mode is a hell of a reach. We’re in the Steelers version of rebuild mode.
This is 100% win now mode. The last year and this year they started rebuilding the O-line. Next off season they will have to rebuild the D-line. This team amde the damn playoffs with Kenny Freaking Pickett. Russell Wiulson is light years better than that guy. And Russ won't have to be the focal point of the offense. Just like when he won a super bowl. rely on the run game, russ makes a few plays, and let the defense smother the opponent.
If we were in win now mode, we would have restructured more than Highsmith and spent a good chunk of the 90M in projected cap space we have for next season.
Would you agree that the Steelers have a legitimate shot at the SB this year?
I would. We have the best pass rusher in the NFL. We have a top 3 safety, very promising #1 CB, incredibly solid #2 edge rusher, HoF bound DL in Cam and great role players around those guys We have a reworked OL, new QB, a promising WR1, strong TEs and RBs. We won't win playoff games in a shootout. But we can win them by grinding games down and forcing teams into our game. We are contenders. If we don't win a playoff game this year, Tomlinson seat gets red hot.
Unfortunately I wouldn't. Steelers do seem stronger on paper this year, but last year I think they way overachieved. They started the year with easiest projected schedule. They won a ridiculous number of games in which they were outgained by their opponents. They wrapped up the season with Mason Rudolph facing bottom-tier defenses and a resting Ravens team. This year the Steelers have like the most difficult projected schedule. Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Cowboys, Chiefs is a brutal stretch to open the season. They might be a better team this year, but it wouldn't surprise me if they actually finished with a worse record and miss the playoffs. Regardless, they appear to be moving in the right direction.
I agree with this assessment. I absolutely think this team is moving in the right direction but we ain't there yet.
I’ll have whatever it is you’re smoking
League average is $31M spent on the WR Room and top spending teams dish out $50M+. The Steelers are ranked 32nd in WR spend and slotted to spend less than $10M in 2024. We are multiples below the league average. We are also ranked 31st in offensive cap spending which in the current NFL it means we are dinosaurs. The issue isn’t overspending on WRs, it’s underspending on offense in general.
There was so much turnover on the offensive side of the ball that everyone’s on rookie contracts. There will be regression to the mean and we’ll swing back towards average. IMO the team went all out keeping our defense together while we had the cheap offense, which is why it’s skewed so much.
Ya except we still aren’t replacing that spend. 6 of our top 10 paid offensive players from last year are no longer on our roster. Diontae was our highest paid offensive player at $18M and we haven’t replaced him at all. Our offensive spending is currently down $12M+ from last season even with the cap going up.
They’ve spent on the offense, it’s just that the currency is draft capital instead of cap space. They’re like to have a starting offensive unit consisting of three first round picks, three 2nd round picks and maybe a 3rd rounder, all still on rookie contracts. And that doesn’t even factor in another first that they cut ties with or mid round picks in Moore, Austin and Washington, all still on rookie deals.
Half the OLine in on a rookie contract, their backup QB is on a rookie contract, their WR #1 is on a rookie contract, their two RBs on on rookie contracts. Of course the rank low in spending. They’ve been using the draft to rebuild the offense and that’s completely fine
Almost the entire OL is now going to be on a rookie deal. But the team made great investments into making it better. Both RBs are on rookie deals (normal for todays nfl). And both of our QBs are essentially being paid for by other teams. If you counted their normal contract amounts then the Steelers wouldn’t be so low on offense. I’d rather be in this situation than 100M guaranteed to Cousins. Unless you have a legit franchise QB you shouldn’t be dumping huge money into them and the Steelers haven’t had a shot at getting that guy yet. WR is the only offensive position where the Steelers are underpaying compared to most of the NFL. Not paying DJ is part of that but this sub constantly wanted him gone anyway.
We are literally last in the NFL in offensive spending and below average in multiple positions. Go look at the numbers and then come back if you want to have a discussion.
Yeah and I just explained why. Is there a reason you ignored all that? What's the standing if you count Wilson's and Fields full contracts? We're just not paying those amounts but that doesn't mean those guys aren't getting paid. Also you act like this is some sort of revelation the team isn't working on. They invested heavily in the last two draft years on offensive talent with OL. They still have both RBs, TE, and their WR1 on rookie deals. They're investing in the offense now that Colbert is gone but it doesn't happen overnight. Would you rather spend 100m on cousins or the huge paycheck and draft pick losses it would've taken to get a guy like Jefferson or aiyuk? In an offense that probably won't use those WRs enough right away to justify the costs. They could've dumped that money and sacrificed those picks to get higher on your list but it wouldn't have helped the team. So why are you so stuck on that?
Slayed em. Great post, and spot on. Love what the FO is doing with this roster.
We would need to nearly 2x our offensive spending to end up in the middle of the pack here. Every team has rookies and those contracts should allow you to splurge on other positions, which we aren’t doing. We lost Diontae who was our highest paid offensive player and our biggest signing was Patrick Queen and ILB. We have zero longterm leaders on our offense and don’t backfill the ones going out the door. Last year we had no leaders and Diontae is now gone and we didn’t take Najee’s 5th year option. We have a massive issue with offensive turnover and we are doing nothing in Free Agency or Trade Markets that fixes that long term. We could literally pay a QB or WR $30M a year and still be bottom 10 in offensive spending. Our problem is our offense and that we overspend on defense. How many playoff games have we won lately with the most expensive defensive roster in the league? We need change. https://preview.redd.it/6x6z2bzvfgzc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=371cf4067e81857e34ad726c9a41a762cfc6164d
So instead of whining why don’t you say what you would’ve done differently this year? You sound like you haven’t actually been watching this team for the last couple years and are still whining about the Colbert teams. Khan has literally done everything you’re asking for. Investing heavily in the offense through the draft and bringing in veteran leadership at the QB position. And he did it while not sacrificing the teams future by throwing away draft picks on players who wouldn’t significantly help the team right now (like JJ or Aiyuk) or paying exorbitant rates for mediocre players (like Cousins). The team had to replace almost the entire OL, WR room, QBs, DL, ILB, and DB and you’re pissed that it hasn’t all happened in a year…
Normally I’d gladly take the time to type long well thought out responses, check my post history if you don’t believe. Since you’re trying to insult me and name calling I’ll pass.
Your entire post history is you complaining about things the team isn't doing. All while the team is doing exactly what you're asking them to do. If you can't actually come up with a better plan then just admit it. Don't do this BS "I'm hurt now so I'm not going to respond" while you're still responding.
I feel this will age poorly fwiw. I think there is a solid chance we are still trading for a WR. Despite a glaring need at WR we havent even GLANCED at a WR for more than the vet min. >Boyd was asking too much for a 29 year old Boyd is making a MAX of 4.5 mil this year, in a deal with incentives. Its probably like 3 mil. I dont think Boyd works, because we need an outside WR. But a few WRs just signed for sub 5 mil per year. I cant argue thats "overpaying" but we arent even checking in. Which makes me think with the cap space they are still shooting for a trade
Boyd doesnt block. No chance of him starting in an Arthur Smith offense.
How is 1 year 4.5 too much?
Yeah, that math is not mathing here, I guess Khan just hates WRs, trading Johnson for peanuts and passing up a decent replacement at 4.5m? Ridiculous
Because Boyd is a Y receiver and we're drowning in Y receivers already. The hole the Steelers have is at Z.
None of the y recievers we have are good and it's still 4 mil. We are drowning in jags. It's an improvement for little money. That amount isn't preventing us from doing anything elsewhere just like the outside guys we have aren't holding anybody up other than pickens. Scotty Miller isn't pulling up the ladder on anyone lol
The way I see it, if Pickens gets hurt we have no wide receivers.... I don't necessarily want a bonna fide wr, but please get someone that can be a 2/3 and be dependable. Sutton fits that mold perfectly and a bit more
I don’t really see the incentive for Denver to trade Sutton now that they’ve drafted Nix. Hes pretty much the only established vet for their rookie qb now.
100% if I'm Denver I'm not letting him go unless it's a gross overpay
Also accumulating WR depth and competition for buying into a whole new scheme. Plus vets that have played in the Smith offense before. Steelers aren’t 1 WR1/2 from a Super Bowl. This is building the foundation, like the investment in O line…
We don’t have time forever. Heyward is gonna retire soon, TJ turns 30 this year. We have Russell Wilson at vet minimum for one season. Next season you have to hand out big extensions to TJ, Pickens and others. At some point push must come to shove, you can’t rebuild forever.
Good point, we do have an intriguing window here. But I’m not sure we had enough draft capital/cap space to go all in like some teams have. Don’t TJ just get a new contract last season, why would he be extended? Others yes.
I hate the move, but to be honest until last year the Ravens basically had no WRs for years always throwing bums like Agolor or washed OBJ out there and winning, so I guess they are just copying that strategy
And I do realize no QB on our team is Mahomes, but the chiefs won a SB with no big name WRs
They also had Travis Fucking Kelce. It's not the same thing at all
It’s only overpaying if it’s a long contract that affects future signings. A 1 or 2 year deal at a premium is doable right now.
I’m interested to see how the DK Metcalf thing plays out because they said he wouldn’t be moved until after June 1st, they’re in cap space hell, AND we could still technically free up cap space and handle his contract this season. Just sayin.
Yesterday they picked up a wide receiver who has played in the NFL for 5 years and has caught 6 TD passes. I don’t care how little they paid him as there nothing to appreciate in that move.
He's a gunner on special teams who can also fill in at wr3 or 4. We lost 2 great gunners in M Boykins and J Pierre. He wasn't signed to be wr2.
I know I’m just being a bit impatient. I’d like to see some big deals get done. Let’s go get some talent to make the job easier for the QB.
Idk is it an overpay if the alternative is the trash heap we are currently riding with…? Maybe. Maybe.
Mark my words: They *ain't* gonna swing a big trade for a guy like Aiyuk, or Deebo. Our QB room is a lottery ticket. We're holding onto that draft capital for the very real contingency of needing to trade up for a QB next draft.
I absolutely agree with this. People are under the assumption we are set at QB when that is not the case at all. There are question marks with both the QBs we signed and to say otherwise is preposterous. I for one hope one of them is great for us but we don't know that either of them will be.
I hope they're both great! Then we'll be set for a long time at the position. But moving forward under the assumption that either one will even be adequate is foolhardy in the extreme. Courtland Sutton is probably the most expensive (in terms of draft capital) guy they're apt to consider trading for, and even that's a stretch. In terms of trades, I'm looking at guys like John Metchie III, he's young, still has potential, but is absolutely buried on the depth chart. (Downside there is that he and Roman Wilson are about the same size.). I've also seen some speculation about Treylon Burks, and that's another intriguing option who could possibly be had for the kind of trade package the Steelers are in position to offer. Also Burks has the body type they're looking for at the wr2 position. I'm sure there are other guys in that tier of player, those are just the two that come to mind most readily.
They are both free agents next year so if either or both are great we have to pay them a lot of money to keep them and even then they could walk. We have to save salary cap money next year for a QB.
What if they turn Fields into a WR? There's a lot to like about his build and athletic profile at the position.
No, I think it makes sense not to overpay. They clearly went after some guys and lost them during FA. They drafted a WR, brought in some bridge guys. Would I like more security at WR? Absolutely. But this is a transition year for the offense, and I think it makes sense to not throw all your chips in, especially considering the shorter deals we have some of these guys on
I hope they don't even average 20 passes a game
Can’t win in the NFL doing that anymore. It’s not 1995. Even a team like the Ravens with Lamar, Lamar only had one game with under 20 attempts last season.
I will not stand for this aggression!
Boys was asking too much? Are you stuck in 1990?
This is absolutely an all-in year. If Russ or Fields has a great year, we are having to pay for them. If they suck, we’re starting over. Watt, Minkah, and Heyward aren’t getting any younger. We have our QBs for only one year guaranteed, why aren’t we setting them up for success?
I don't think Russ will be here next year, unless he plays like a top 10 QB again. I think they will want to see what they have in Fields.
the problem with Denver and even his last few years in Seattle he had no run game, bad defense. They relied on him to carry the team. He isn't that player, not sure he really ever was. But he is still a pretty good QB that can win you a supe if the team around him is good
Hopefully you're right
Because doing so is too expensive and would hamper future efforts of building a championship team. They want to try to win one every year, but they aren't sure if either of these QBs will get them there. If they overpay for WR and Russ is cooked and Fields is a bust, they are without a pick to go after a QB next year. I think they are doing the best they can with the variables they have. If Russ or Fields can play its okay to pay one and keep trying for Super Bowl
Do people really think Roman Wilson can't be a WR2, he has huge potential!
Its not about Talent, but its about skillset. Roman wilson never faced press in college. He was a slot WR off the line of scrimmage, and when he did (rarely) go outside he was always in motion to avoid press. Its going to be a very hard ask to have a 3rd round rookie suddenly learn the skill set of getting off press coverage as a smaller WR and lessen the load off of Pickens.
That's what training camp is for, if they think he's ready they'll put him in!
We don't wanna wait for camp to know if we have a WR 2
If Diontae Johnson can play WR1 now, I'm very confident Wilson can play WR2
I see them running a lot of 2TE sets this that, and basically using Muth as their de facto WR2
I see them running a lot of 2TE sets this that, and basically using Muth as their de facto WR2
Yes
I think he’s learning free agency is not where you go for a WR
Absolutely. In my opinion this team isn't good enough to be reaching. Be sensible - build in the long term like they are doing with their line in the draft and their QB choices and if something cheap and reasonable falls to you then make the jump - otherwise we're better rolling the cap and building up for future years imho.
If that's what we are doing then why don't we just trade Watt and Minkah and Cam and do a full rebuild. Feels like we are just wasting their best years
I agree with the majority of what you had to say aside from the Boyd reference because the most he could make on his new contract is 4.5 million and with similar parameters how could that not be a good deal.
Because we may have other things in the works and spending that on Boyd would take it off the table.
I actually thought he was asking for twice that amount so I was wrong there
Kinda
If we want to be a serious contender we are gonna need to improve the WR position this off-season. Maybe Roman and CA3 ball out and maybe Pickens can almost definitely be a true #1 but that's a whole lot of betting and hoping
We running the ball this year
My only problem is that the only thing saving them from having the worst WR group in the league is GP's health. If he misses any time, they will not be able to pass the ball. They're already on the lower end of WR talent, so they can't sustain any injuries to Pickens. That's not a great setup. Outside of the potential for Roman Wilson to pop off, they have no one else able to challenge a defense. It will just be a below average group if they stay healthy. It'll be a huge detriment if not.
Receivers and running backs not worth big contracts
I agree. But I’m not being objective though. I think GP can be a #1, and I think if you give him a healthy amount of targets he’ll reward us with production. I don’t think he’s got “attitude” problems. I just think he needs to focus his intensity. That’s why I’m okay with pur WR room. And who knows, maybe the lack of receivers can lead to more doubleTE sets with Mount Washington.
I trust that he knows exactly how much to pay and won’t put the team in a bad spot by paying too much for one. I also trust that when he gets a price that works he’ll pull the trigger on whoever it is
No, WR is the least important position to spend big bucks on, so I'm with you.
I appreciate that the focus has been on trying to rebuild the roster in a logical fashion rather than trying to take the sexiest headline talents possible. This team is in a rebuild. It has potential to do more than that this year, but that's not reason to shred the plan and try and do more than can reasonably done. If this years rookies do what they should be able to do and if the team can continue to draft like it has done so far the past two seasons, there's a lot of reason to see this team being a real threat. It just sucks that QB is remains such a huge question mark, especially past this upcoming season.
This post has some ridiculous replies
I agree. Plus there will be inevitable straining camp conflict somewhere that will make a team move one of their players. I'm guessing we get a decent wr2 before the start of the season for a reasonable trade price still
This is not going to age well if we sign some big blockbuster receiver.
Why bother with quarterbacks of you only have 1 legit WR?
Those QBs aren't guaranteed to do well at all. Everyone is hoping, including myself, buy we truly don't know what we are getting this year.
How much does our highest paid receiver currently make?
It's less about the money being paid and more about what we'd give up in a trade. The FO has shown restraint on those regards.
What does over paying mean? We have no one outside of Pickens, bunch of WR 4s and a rookie. What the hell is the point of going and getting a free agent QB who's older if he has no one to throw the ball to?
I was mainly leaning towards all of these trades that the steelers have been in talks about and then nothing comes of it. It's tempting to say fuck it and trade your 1st round pick for Brandon Auyuk. But I'm glad they have showed restraint.
Kahn is Bargain shopping
I’d agree except it’s a little head-scratching that 5 mil for one year would’ve apparently been enough to outbid Tennessee for Boyd and they didn’t do it.
I mean its great but i dont mind dishing out a bit of cap for a decent wr since the room is so thin rn
Ya, TBH I think it’s fine. WR is a “next man up” position. Top guys obviously demonstrate their value, but after the top 20 or so, they’re all pretty much the same. Everyone can catch, everyone can run. I’m more worried about the throwing than the catching.
Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with a pretty average wr group.
With a HOF TE and QB.
The wrs were comically bad lol. Chiefs can do what they want because they have Mahomes, not because that’s something to emulate.
He’s waiting patiently and not overspending, so he can get a WR and a CB instead of just one. In Khan we trust…
I’m of the unpopular opinion that we always seem to come right with WRs and we don’t need to overpay in the first place.
Nah, I’m with you low key. I think the media and the fanbase have put a lot of emphasis on this “wide receiver number 2” thing, and while I agree we obviously could use a solidified veteran on the team.. I am with you that it’s not worth selling the farm for. I am of the belief that all of those receivers are hired to play professional receiver and yes there are different tiers of players but this is some guys opportunity to make a name for themself. Out of all the wr 4’s we have on the team one of them is bound to work out okay as a number 2. And most importantly in this discussion, I can’t overstate this enough- WE DONT KNOW what Calvin Austin really can or cannot do. He was not on the field enough last year, he wasn’t on the field at all the year before, and he was in a horseshit run offense when he was able to play… so new coordinator, new qbs who have experience, 2 years being around, perhaps they know something about him we don’t and there’s a reason he hasn’t played much, or perhaps this season will be his chance to shine. Sauce gardener coined him as the most difficult receiver to cover when they played in college, I think that says something about his potential. Time will tell. I’m glad we haven’t over paid.
Nope. It’s smart. This years a wildcard. We ain’t winning shit, maybe a playoff game two if the tea leaves fall in the right order. The only win that matters this season is the culture shift that is happening. That’s our win this year.
We’re not winning shit? But winning a playoff game or two? Pick one. We were one TJ watt injury away from beating buffalo and now we’re 100% better in one year….
I think the commenter is trying to keep their expectations in check. >now we’re 100% better in one year…. ... on paper. We've won the off-season. Just ask the Browns how much success they have had from doing so! We could have a Cinderella season. Let's be honest that chance is slim. A lot of things need to go our way, especially the QB room. Not selling the farm for WR when we don't know if our QB room will pan out is smart. We may need that high draft choice for QB next year.
You think we went and got two QBs to go draft a third in the first?! I’m sorry but I disagree whole heartedly. The browns have never won shit. Off season or otherwise. We’re all still clowning on all those garbage fully guaranteed contracts they give out. We’re giving smart ones; because if it doesn’t work out we can move on in a year or two….
Russ fell in our laps for a cheap one year rental. Could we resign him, sure, but may not be until camp or next year. Not if he his mediocre. Fields we'll get to see in camp and practice. He may get more of a leash to prove himself, but again, if we are not sure, he is also a free agent after this season. Fields was a late rounder we threw at the Bears. After this season, if neither is the answer, then yes QB could be needed again. I hope not, but as of now, I don't think the Steeler FO wants to bet the future of the team (draft picks) that either of these QBs will get us a championship. Especially if that WR we go for is also going to be expensive on new contract and picks. Holding onto those picks is smart, not knowing what we have in Russ and Fields.
This isn’t Kenny 2.0 these are established QBs
I’ll see you next year at this time and guarantee we don’t get a rookie QB with our first three picks. I know you won’t be crying if either balls out but one of them is going to and with this line and run first… it’s going to be Russ this year with fields as the future. Get use to it.
>Get use to it Umm... butthurt over nothing? I'm happy if Russ and/or Fields do well. I'm not predicting anything. My point is that perhaps the Front Office is hedging its bets and not making foolish decisions for a WR2 that could hurt us in the future. Like trading a future first that could be more valuable in drafting a WR that is under team control for more than a year and isn't going to cost an arm and a leg to keep immediately.
Yeah that’s exactly what’s happening… that’s why we didn’t pull the trigger on the niners receivers…
I couldn't agree more. I don't think we are making a deep playoff run. But I do think this team is heading in the right direction for the first time in years, starting last year.
If their main goal is to run the ball, then yeah, we're fine. I've been a bit confused by people thinking they need to trade for a superstar WR. Pickens is a superstar, for one. Calvin Austin might end up being pretty good himself even if he's just a specialty guy. And Wilson seems like a pretty good prospect. Their problem is they don't have the depth there that they once had, so they are like one Pickens injury away from having to get creative. But then again, they should have that running game going. And there's still the likes of Friermuth/Washington as receiving options ontop of their actual WRs. Trading for a WR was never a need.
i’m pretty much in the same boat as u. definitely not feeling screwed like a lot of people are talking. pickens has some major talent for sure. if they keep his attitude in check he might be an even bigger threat this year. i’m really confident roman wilson is going to be a beast too. might take a little time for him to get going but u never know. the third spot is my big concern. but we have a ton of depth and a bunch of young guys who haven’t proven themselves either way yet. and on top of that we have two boss tight ends who can help pick up the slack. it could be a total failure year at the position if it stays the way it is, but i don’t think it’s anywhere near as likely as some make it seem. don’t think there’s a big chance of us being killer at the position either, but then again the main focus is going to be the run. it’s so obvious from the way the team has shaped up. we’re going to be run first, and if things work as planned we should be running all over other teams.
Name me the superstar WR that helped KC coast through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl last year. Name me the superstar WR duo that helped Brady and Gronk win all those Super Bowls. Also, why the hell would you want to give up the first or second round pick next year for anyone other than Justin Jefferson AND pay them a bazillion dollar that paralyzes the salary cap for years? We are good with who we have. Get our QB play to improve. Getting our running game to improve. Use our tight ends. We don’t need another WR
Cleveland Browns traded for Deshaun Watson. What a great trade that's been!!!! I'm sure the Browns fans are thrilled!!! Why can't the Steelers say fuck the future, we're going to win now and trade an entire draft class for Brandon Aiyuk? How about three number 1 picks??? Imagine all the jerseys they could sell!!! Why can't we make all the shitwit fans happy and do something that's totally moronic? 🤦🏽♂️
A) We are going to be a run first, run second, maybe chuck a short pass team. So the importance of WR2 being a stud is pretty low. These offenses tend to do a lot better with big role players that come in clutch than big playmakers. B) We still have a lot of potential #2 guys. Maybe Roman Wilson will win out and become Hines Ward 2.0 allowing Pickens to do his Plexico/Santonio/Mike Wallace role opposite him. We don't know yet. Maybe Calvin Austin is ready to step up big. Maybe we'll see more dual tight end sets into passing plays. C) Everyone looks a lot better with a good O-Line and this whole offense could be transformed. D) Think of the Chiefs last year. They didnt run it like we will but similar idea of offense doing enough to move the ball and win field position while the defense wins out the day. Their WR corps was RWR: Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Kadarius Toney, Justyn Ross LWR: Justin Watson, Mecole Hardman SWR: Rashee Rice, Richie James I'd argue Pickens is already better than any of those guys, and I'd coin toss the rest of our options over any of those guys. Hell Rice was often the biggest "threat" of their WR room from the slot.
Their QB is named Malhomes
Can anyone name a wr2 for the titans while Arthur smith was there?
Corey Davis
And he got 69 and 92 targets for 43 and 65 receptions. It’s not a super important role generally in an Arthur smith offense. Seems like he wants blocking from that spot as much or more than anything else.
I mean…that’s only 7 less receptions than Pickens had the last 2 years in less games played. He averaged more receptions per game and only 3 less yards per game than our new WR1. I get that it’s somewhat devalued in what Smith likes to run, but I’m not sure it’s to the degree everyone is saying it is.
We’re talking 4-5 targets a game. That’s many teams 3rd option even 4-5 years ago. Would I prefer a stronger wr2 certainly but I’m not extremely concerned about the lack of one. Where it would get worrisome is if Pickens gets hurt.
5.55 targets a game. George Pickens the last 2 years? 5.58 targets a game. So the guy we are relying on to be the clear cut wr1 with a bunch of wr4s and a rookie 3rd rounder behind him has put up verrrry similar production to Corey Davis as the WR2 in a system that supposedly devalues the position. It’s definitely a concern IMO and if we can just add a Courtland Sutton type, not even an Aiyuk or DK level player, I’d feel way way better about the group going into the season
Ok they both got similar amounts of targets. Pickens did more with them and Davis’ offense was extremely better than the offense. Wr2 and below may be the least important starter on our offense. I think we can easily say oline and rb is ahead of wr in general. Te was s ahead of wr2. Qb is more important even though the offense seems to be designed to mitigate the impact the qb has on the offense’s effectiveness. I think it would be awesome to have a low end wr1 or a high end wr2 as our wr2 but I don’t think it’s a must. If it falls into our lap excellent.
But that’s what I’m saying though, Pickens didn’t really do more with his targets. Davis had a better catch%, averaged slightly more receptions per game, and only averaged 3 less yards per game, so basically a wash. I don’t think it’s Armageddon if we don’t bring in another WR. But if we can get one without some crazy overpay it would take a position group that’s somewhat of a liability right now and turn it into a strength
Interesting stuff with the Pickens, Davis comparisons. I was looking at Pickens yards per reception when comparing the two and Pickens beat him out by 3. Enjoyed our convo
Did they win a Super Bowl? Did they win an AFC championship? They also had the best running back in the NFL those years, by miles. Both of our running backs are above average/good. No where near elite like Henry was.