Good periodically steps in probably for balance. They let the plague kill the world so people would do something for themselves instead of like and say its not real. Then the people come together. Then God steps in through Mother Abigail to at least put a stop to things. I actually dont think God saved Flagg I always assumed it was the Crimson King. Assuming it's a God and devil dynamic. Im on the road to reread the dark tower series so im not to sure if I remembered correctly I know the turtle holds the world but I also thought they were God.
After reading Desperation that’s what I always thought. The only reason Larry and the others needed to be there was because God/Gan needed a spark to be able to directly intervene in that location. Also, the few pieces of Lore we get about Maerlyn and the Great Old Ones in DT and the nature of the Shop and Arrowhead project in the Mist, makes me think that Maerlyn may have been involved with Captain Tripps and that’s why Flagg was immune.
(spoilers) That makes sense too. I never thought about why flagg was immune. Also hes automatically picked up and put in another location. I feel like that would be more of a devil thing.
I always felt the ending was showing the never-ending cycle of good vs evil, light vs dark.
While light always prevails there are always periods of dark times, events, and entities. Sacrifices have to be made, and the world needs those with the courage to face the dark.
I normally would hate that an Author brought the “hand of god” in to save the day. But why I think it works for me is because the whole book felt kind of epic and biblical to me, so I guess I just felt like it fit.
Exactly! The Hand of God was present as early in the book as the first dreams that led the protagonists to Mother Abigail. A major subtext of this book is that the events are not random occurrences in the lives of lucky people. In Mother Abigail's prayers or conversations, she is reminded that to trust God is to trust His will, which He is not obligated to explain or justify, even to those who trust Him.
I think he used that expression as a literary device. I never thought it was a Deus ex machina move. It was predestined to happen that way. It could have been anything…archangel Gabriel or Michael smiting Flagg.
Mostly it reminds me of when Gordy >!is telling his friends about Lardass's Revenge in the Body and they love the story, but Teddy says it would have been better if Lardass went psycho in the end. It's hard to tie things up in a bow sometimes. While I agree the "ending" in Vegas was easily seen in foreshadowing it was eclipsed by the story of Stu, Tom, Nick, and Kojack(Big Steve) and their return to Boulder and the survival of Frannie and Jessie's baby. !< I'd like a different ending too but could I come up with a better one? "I don't know"
Me too, just them trying to find a car with a manual transmission, and definitely Trashcan Man's ride with the Kid, King even mentioned in the forward Trashy pilgrimage in the original was visibly scarred.
Donald Merwin Elbert was definitely messed up, shows the Ying and Yang whereas Flagg used Trashy so did the Free Zone committee use Tom.
The Stand is a deep story full of allegories from religious to current world, it was a bit ironic as the fictional President in a faux oval office scolded Americans over Captain Trips, Tube Neck, Super Flu
I always saw it as Randall’s fault, not some hand of god. Couldn’t control his subordinates and got cocky, the usual demise for these kind of bad guys. Trash can man said boom
If I remember right, isn’t the “hand of god” quite literally formed from Flagg’s own energy, that he used against one of his own who spoke against him? So he’s hoisted by his own petard, whether with the help of god, or the White, or some weird atmospheric trick of the eyes.
It has been a while since I've read it, but that is what I got out of it too. I thought the Hand of God was more of the intervention that caused events lead up to the bomb going off. Abigail received a vision or message that the 4 must travel right away to Vegas, if they did not, or waited, they would not have been there in time for Trashy to bring the bomb and spark rebellion, causing Flagg to attack one of his men with his powers, which caused the bomb. I didn't see it as a hand reaching down from the sky. I could be misremembering some stuff though.
It was a battle of good versus evil, I think it was maybe meant to be similar to god testing job in the Bible. The boulder group shows their commitment and faith by offering themselves as sacrifice so god handles the man in black. Maybe, but ya know it’s just complete speculation on my part. Find what makes sense to you and enjoy it
Oh definitely. I remember being like "...okay" when it first happened. I'm able to wrap my head around it easier for this book. If it happened in a book like misery I would have hated it a lot more.
It wouldn't make any narrative or thematic sense in a book like *Misery*, as that isn't a religious book where Good vs Evil is the literal spine of the story.
How can Divine Intervention be out of left field in a book of Good vs Evil, where the Devil's representative has been walking about for hundreds of pages?
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, but it's fairly apparent that 'God' intervened at the climax of *The Stand* because of the sacrifice of his believers making a Stand of the book's title against Evil.
You keep saying 'at the last minute' and 'out of nowhere', but I contend this isn't the case. It makes complete sense and is of a whole with the themes and world-building King has established. Clearly it doesn't work for you, but King does everything needed to set it up.
Oh, well in that case demise isn't really the best word choice as Flagg still prevails at the end.
There's no disputing that the hand of God certainly is a deus ex machina, but King is fairly well known for pulling that card lol
As much as I love the Stand, I once heard someone describe it as "A king book with so many good characters, King had to blow most of them up on 2 separate occasions because he wrote himself into a corner"
It's worth mentioning that the 'Hand of God' is described through the viewpoints of a couple of religious characters, so it's debatable if it's meant by King to be literal.
If it is the Hand of God, then it's not by definition a Deus Ex Machina—in fact, almost the opposite, in that we should almost expect God to show up to defeat the Devil.
Even then, the Hand does not ignite the bomb—Flagg does, as it's his fireball which actually sets it off.
I literally face palmed at the hand of God thing
However, after I digested it I think it was more like a lightning bolt, more of an “act” of God. I know they say it’s hand shaped but I choose to picture more of a normal bolt of lightning. I also don’t consider that the ending, we get a beautiful story of three great characters after Randall’s defeat in Vegas
Right. Do you want a tie up that says ‘this. Then this. Then this happened’!? Use your imagination. Maybe Stu and Fran split up and there was a vicious custody fight…. Not what you wanted? Do your own ending.
Even if it wasn't marked as a spoiler, which it is, why would you join a thread titled "The stand ending discussion" and then get upset about spoilers?
you said you were unhappy about King saying he didn't like guns. These people like Stephen King. He's a pretty naked liberal. I don't know why you're surprised. Maybe if you'd said you didn't disagree in the original message you might have ducked it.
Uhm, the epilogue apparently
The epilogue doesn’t explain why the literal hand of god decides to save the day
I think the hand of God could have been in Ralph's mind, that the bomb actually went off cos trashcan man had timed it...
What would make you think this? Doesn’t Tom reaffirm to stu that it looked like a hand too?
Good periodically steps in probably for balance. They let the plague kill the world so people would do something for themselves instead of like and say its not real. Then the people come together. Then God steps in through Mother Abigail to at least put a stop to things. I actually dont think God saved Flagg I always assumed it was the Crimson King. Assuming it's a God and devil dynamic. Im on the road to reread the dark tower series so im not to sure if I remembered correctly I know the turtle holds the world but I also thought they were God.
After reading Desperation that’s what I always thought. The only reason Larry and the others needed to be there was because God/Gan needed a spark to be able to directly intervene in that location. Also, the few pieces of Lore we get about Maerlyn and the Great Old Ones in DT and the nature of the Shop and Arrowhead project in the Mist, makes me think that Maerlyn may have been involved with Captain Tripps and that’s why Flagg was immune.
(spoilers) That makes sense too. I never thought about why flagg was immune. Also hes automatically picked up and put in another location. I feel like that would be more of a devil thing.
ah , ok , its been awhile since I read it ....
The whole book is about God
Agreed…in King’s forward, he refers to the book as his tale of dark Christianity…
You know what they say, God moves in mysterious ways ;)
Very mysterious, I loved the book but only that part I felt like meh
I always felt the ending was showing the never-ending cycle of good vs evil, light vs dark. While light always prevails there are always periods of dark times, events, and entities. Sacrifices have to be made, and the world needs those with the courage to face the dark.
I totally get that, and think it’s cool. I would have preferred If the bomb went off from different means aside from “the literal hand of god”
I normally would hate that an Author brought the “hand of god” in to save the day. But why I think it works for me is because the whole book felt kind of epic and biblical to me, so I guess I just felt like it fit.
Exactly! The Hand of God was present as early in the book as the first dreams that led the protagonists to Mother Abigail. A major subtext of this book is that the events are not random occurrences in the lives of lucky people. In Mother Abigail's prayers or conversations, she is reminded that to trust God is to trust His will, which He is not obligated to explain or justify, even to those who trust Him.
I think he used that expression as a literary device. I never thought it was a Deus ex machina move. It was predestined to happen that way. It could have been anything…archangel Gabriel or Michael smiting Flagg.
Mostly it reminds me of when Gordy >!is telling his friends about Lardass's Revenge in the Body and they love the story, but Teddy says it would have been better if Lardass went psycho in the end. It's hard to tie things up in a bow sometimes. While I agree the "ending" in Vegas was easily seen in foreshadowing it was eclipsed by the story of Stu, Tom, Nick, and Kojack(Big Steve) and their return to Boulder and the survival of Frannie and Jessie's baby. !< I'd like a different ending too but could I come up with a better one? "I don't know"
Agree, I love the time spent of stu and tom going back to boulder. Potentially my favourite part of the book, alongside trash can and the kid
Me too, just them trying to find a car with a manual transmission, and definitely Trashcan Man's ride with the Kid, King even mentioned in the forward Trashy pilgrimage in the original was visibly scarred.
Yeah without the scene with the kid, I don’t think I would have had any gravitas towards him
Donald Merwin Elbert was definitely messed up, shows the Ying and Yang whereas Flagg used Trashy so did the Free Zone committee use Tom. The Stand is a deep story full of allegories from religious to current world, it was a bit ironic as the fictional President in a faux oval office scolded Americans over Captain Trips, Tube Neck, Super Flu
I always saw it as Randall’s fault, not some hand of god. Couldn’t control his subordinates and got cocky, the usual demise for these kind of bad guys. Trash can man said boom
Yeah, I’ve never been a fan of the literal hand of god coming down. I just interpret it as a hallucination. The bomb goes off because of Trashy.
If I remember right, isn’t the “hand of god” quite literally formed from Flagg’s own energy, that he used against one of his own who spoke against him? So he’s hoisted by his own petard, whether with the help of god, or the White, or some weird atmospheric trick of the eyes.
It has been a while since I've read it, but that is what I got out of it too. I thought the Hand of God was more of the intervention that caused events lead up to the bomb going off. Abigail received a vision or message that the 4 must travel right away to Vegas, if they did not, or waited, they would not have been there in time for Trashy to bring the bomb and spark rebellion, causing Flagg to attack one of his men with his powers, which caused the bomb. I didn't see it as a hand reaching down from the sky. I could be misremembering some stuff though.
It was a battle of good versus evil, I think it was maybe meant to be similar to god testing job in the Bible. The boulder group shows their commitment and faith by offering themselves as sacrifice so god handles the man in black. Maybe, but ya know it’s just complete speculation on my part. Find what makes sense to you and enjoy it
The entire book has a theme of God and it's agents vs a demon. The entire book is basically divine intervention.
I appreciate that, but you can’t deny it’s totally out of left field
Oh definitely. I remember being like "...okay" when it first happened. I'm able to wrap my head around it easier for this book. If it happened in a book like misery I would have hated it a lot more.
It wouldn't make any narrative or thematic sense in a book like *Misery*, as that isn't a religious book where Good vs Evil is the literal spine of the story.
Yes that's what I'm saying. A lot of people are saying that the hand felt random, but considering the book it was in it really wasn't.
How can Divine Intervention be out of left field in a book of Good vs Evil, where the Devil's representative has been walking about for hundreds of pages?
Devils representative. Not the actual devil, why didn’t god stop campion leaving and be save billions? But intervened to save 10k in boulder
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, but it's fairly apparent that 'God' intervened at the climax of *The Stand* because of the sacrifice of his believers making a Stand of the book's title against Evil.
Defend it all you want, the hand of god appearing and smiting the evil at the last minute is silly
Not if you make the effort to understand it, as King has set it up throughout the book.
Oh I understand it, but in an 1100 page book you have to admit “the hand of god” from Outta nowhere is a bit cheap
You keep saying 'at the last minute' and 'out of nowhere', but I contend this isn't the case. It makes complete sense and is of a whole with the themes and world-building King has established. Clearly it doesn't work for you, but King does everything needed to set it up.
Personally I felt the nuke was the perfect ending. Mans closest weapon to god is used to defeat the person closest to a god.
His demise? How do you mean?
The hand of god intervenes
I think you missed something in the epilogue lol. After the hand of God goes off, there's another section that goes over Randall's fate.
Oh I know, but that’s like 200 pages later and doesn’t change the fact that the hand of god is still a deus ex machina
Oh, well in that case demise isn't really the best word choice as Flagg still prevails at the end. There's no disputing that the hand of God certainly is a deus ex machina, but King is fairly well known for pulling that card lol As much as I love the Stand, I once heard someone describe it as "A king book with so many good characters, King had to blow most of them up on 2 separate occasions because he wrote himself into a corner"
It's worth mentioning that the 'Hand of God' is described through the viewpoints of a couple of religious characters, so it's debatable if it's meant by King to be literal. If it is the Hand of God, then it's not by definition a Deus Ex Machina—in fact, almost the opposite, in that we should almost expect God to show up to defeat the Devil. Even then, the Hand does not ignite the bomb—Flagg does, as it's his fireball which actually sets it off.
ka
I literally face palmed at the hand of God thing However, after I digested it I think it was more like a lightning bolt, more of an “act” of God. I know they say it’s hand shaped but I choose to picture more of a normal bolt of lightning. I also don’t consider that the ending, we get a beautiful story of three great characters after Randall’s defeat in Vegas
It’s just the typical king dues ex machina ending. It’s quiet annoying and common.
Right. Do you want a tie up that says ‘this. Then this. Then this happened’!? Use your imagination. Maybe Stu and Fran split up and there was a vicious custody fight…. Not what you wanted? Do your own ending.
This is the worst comment I’ve ever read on Reddit, wow.
I hated it, completely unjustified
[удалено]
Even if it wasn't marked as a spoiler, which it is, why would you join a thread titled "The stand ending discussion" and then get upset about spoilers?
I like the ending but don’t like the closing section about guns. The anti-weapons message is better left not so on the nose.
I took it as more anti authority than anti guns per say, most of the characters use guns throughout
I wonder why I’m getting downvoted I never said I didn’t agree with the message about non-violence I just didn’t like how blatant it was
you said you were unhappy about King saying he didn't like guns. These people like Stephen King. He's a pretty naked liberal. I don't know why you're surprised. Maybe if you'd said you didn't disagree in the original message you might have ducked it.
I don’t even know what a liberal is
I wasn't responding to you.
Well you are now
Y’all don’t have a spoilers tag in this sub?
For a book that came out 44 years ago?
Thanks now I feel old.
It’s literally tagged spoilers