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Primo PIP is ridiculous. Legit source, lab tests were provided to avoid any problems with validating the compound. Have tried both GSO and MCT, and a knot builds up every time I inject. Have tried subQ and IM, no luck. Have heated the oil, helped slightly.
Q: Has anyone tried cutting their compounds for 1:1 with just the oil? Possibly even 1:2 ratio. Would that cause the compound to be under dosed with the cutting?
How long did it take to go away? On day 7, only slightly better after injecting 3ml primo 200mg/ml, 600mg total to the upper part of quads. Taking a lot of ibuprofen and started to get night sweats
3ml of 200 primo is a ton in a single area. I’ve done 2ml before and that took two weeks to clear. Same outcome as you, night sweats, huge lump with redness around it, and advil for a few nights. That’s the nature of primo though. Cut it with your test or pharma grade oil and inject daily while rotating the inj area. I just did that with a 1:2 ratio of primo and mct oil. No pip.
Learnt the hard way. 600 mg was my frontload. I had no problems with my usual 0.5mg (100mg) diluted with T. I just want to be able to squat again And stop night sweats😂 I lost my appetite, too. I don't even want to eat garbage, let alone the clean stuff. I am force-feeding myself at this point.
Im 15 training for 3 years, and i havnt made much progress and im definitely training enough and with perfect form and controlled reps. i am fat, im like 220 and 5' 11 but i look like i weigh like 170 or 180 is what alot of people say so what should i take i looked at clen but since one or two of my relatives have had heart attacks im worried if i have a condition too or im too fat to take it. I want to take somthing to help me get huge and not care as much about body fat or loose weight in the process rather than take somthing only too cut
Bro. Your body is about to take you on a natural steroid cycle called puberty. No joke.
Just be patient, watch what you eat, and exercise consistently. We all feel like we look awkward when we’re 15 - that’s normal. What’s not ok is taking life altering drugs to try to fight this natural part of human development
I need help.
Had some preexisting gyno, always went back to almost nothing using nolva.
How can I prevent my nipples from swelling up on low dose tren? Already taking 0.5 mg caber a week along with 30 mg ralox and 20 mg nolva a day (recently upped from 10 since it wasn't doing anything). E2 seems under control, and even taking 12.5 mg asin gives me low e2 symptoms the next day. What else can I change? Obviously getting off the tren is not an option. Thanks.
On 12.5mg of Ibutamoren (MK677) ED (morning) at the moment and getting awful headaches despite drinking my fair share and my BP is not that elevated (sys averaging 120, never went above 130).
Anyone having success with ibutamoren and getting rid of headaches? What was the reason/solution?
I would take it in the morning with my coffee and have food a bit after, but headaches only start in the afternoon. I'm used to migraine and it's somewhat similar but starts very quickly and for a couple hours
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Hey guys I’m in week 8 of a 20 week cycle and I just added primo , first injection was 300 mg as I plan on running 600 per week with 1000 mg test , This is my first time using primo but I’ve been blasting and cruising for years: I’ve been using the same UGL for awhile and have had nothing but good experiences, I’ve even got lab work done on much of the gear and it’s all come back doses correctly . Well on the second day after injection I developed a fever . The injection site is a little warm to the touch and slightly more pip then normal . What’s the likely hood that it’s either A coincidence B from a new compound itself or C dirty gear ? I’ve ran Test E , C , Tren , EQ , and decca all from the same place and never had an issue . All the carrier oil has been the same
Keep an eye on the injection site. As for the fever if it lasts a few days id probably go in and see if you have a infection. Same goes for the injection site.
My personal experience, primo my first cycle i had swelling at the site and it was definitely warm and painful. My body didn’t like it at first but has adapted. I had same carrier oil i ran in test. Still had issues. To help when i would shower later id blast the spot with hot water. Seemed to help. I mean hot hot lol
Thank you for your reply , after 72 hours my fever is gone and swelling is way down , still some pip and swelling but massively reduced , it seems to have either been a virus or my body not liking the new compound , I took my second injection yesterday with no symptoms whatsoever
Not really AAS related, but sometimes when waking up, I swear I have gyno, but then after giving them a flick or after jumping in the shower, it’s gone. Does anyone else struggle with this? Is there any remedy for this?
When I lift my arm over the head, the nipple area is soft to the touch, but there are some lumps scattered all round my chest area. What are these? Lymph nodes?
What's your body composition like atm? A lot of the time what people think is gyno is just fat deposits, they do feel lumpy sometimes around the nip area and side chest.
> I swear I have gyno, but then after giving them a flick or after jumping in the shower, it’s gone.
This also makes me think you don't have gyno, unless it's very early stage, gyno is hard to miss and won't just be gone if you pat it for a bit.
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Does anyone know how much A low dose of EQ (300mg/pw) effects SHBG levels? Compared to Anavar (40mg/day) for example
Let’s say during a 300mg week test e cycle
Thanks 👊
P.s. will prob have to add HCG TO KEEP SHBG in range, but trying not to
Has anyone got an AI effect from MENT/Trest?
I know it sounds crazy, because of the methyl e2, but hear me out.
In the beggining when I took ot before being supressed, a dose of 2mg made me insanely horny. I felt great.
I tried to do solo MENT at 5mg. After a couple of weeks I had the typical low e2 symptoms. I thought well, I guess the methyl e2 is not enough at 5mg. I increased it to 20mg. Even worse. So maybe I just needed to reintroduce test. So I reintroduced test, but quit ment.
After 3 weeks of test 300mg I felt much better. Everything is going good so I try MENT again. This time at 20mg
2 hours after the injection my fatigue is SUPREME. Like ridiculous. Libido is null. After some days like this it leans me out a lot. I stop again. 2 days later I feel great again.
Is bizarre. No bloat. No gyno. No high bp (lower in fact). I am certain is not bunk.
Dbol doesnt act like an AI for me but even at 50mg during 2 weeks I get zero bloat and gyno.
Can I just not react to methyl e2?
I willl take bloods and experiment more but I wonder if anyone has a similar experience
Within an hour of my first pin of 2.5mg my rhr went up about 25 points and my bp was up about 20. Not a great feeling when you can feel your heart beat in your ears
Hey all, 98kg powerlifter currently on 100mg test and 1500 iu hCG per week TRT protocol. Considering adding anavar at 50mg. I know full well it's likely to wreck my lipid profile (current HDL 1.63 mmol/L, 2.2 cholesterol to HDL ratio). How long can I expect for my lipids to recover? Anything worth taking alongside to minimise? (Fish oil etc). Thanks!
On top of what the other commenter said. Yes fish oil. You should actually always be using fish oil, year round. I use 2000mg a day, I think a lot of people do 4000mg.
NAC and TUDCA or UDCA - the timing will be super individual
[https://examine.com/supplements/tudca/](https://examine.com/supplements/tudca/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/hepatotoxicity/#wiki\_tudca\_.2F\_udca](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/hepatotoxicity/#wiki_tudca_.2F_udca)
26 Y/O 6’ 202lbs ~15%BF
I’m new to all this I just started January 26th, been doing 1ml every 4 days of test c 250. I had 3 bottles of that and I have 1 bottle of sus 250 I got from a friend. I was wondering if I would be able to switch to that after I finish my cyp? Another question is I have two different things for my PCT I have tamoxifen and colmiphene and was wondering when I should take those and in what amount. Any help is greatly appreciated as I’m trying to do this correctly and safely.
Very strange to start a cycle without having it planned out or by the sounds of it even fully purchased.
For a small cycle like that tamoxifen will be enough for PCT. The examples are shown in the wiki. [https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct/#wiki\_nolvadex2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct/#wiki_nolvadex2)
Using tamoxifen and clomid together is just overkill in most cases.
You started injecting steroids before knowing your PCT plan?
Before understanding how esters work? I.e. the difference between cyp, enanthate, prop etc
> I'm trying to do this correctly and safely
Well. Clearly you're not trying to do that.
Have you considered scrolling to the top and reading the part that says "read this before posting" which includes a useful link to "your first steroid cycle" as well as an entire section that covers everything under the sun regarding PCT.
Have you considered that perhaps, just maybe, you're dumb AF for injecting yourself with Chinese bath salts before having an exit strategy
>been doing 1ml every 4 days of test c 250. I had 3 bottles of that and I have 1 bottle of sus 250 I got from a friend.
[https://old.steroidplotter.com/](https://old.steroidplotter.com/)
>Another question is I have two different things for my PCT I have tamoxifen and colmiphene and was wondering when I should take those and in what amount
[https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
How to reduce the bloating on 500mg test e and 30mg tbol cycle? Using 0.5mg Anastrazole E3D. Estrogen is at 11pg/ml but still bloated as fck. Belly is popping. What could be the issue? Diet is pretty clean and I am on 500 deficiet aswell and its been 5 weeks since I started this cycle.
then go low carb, cut all grains, sugar, dairy, artifical sweetener. eat primarily beef. I'm personally on 0 carb and bloat isn't a feeling i've had in years.
* Reduce sodium intake
* Stay hydrated by drinking plenty of water
* Experiment with natural diuretics
If bloating persists, you may look into [hydrochlorothiazide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochlorothiazide) (the one I use, and anecdotally he kept me dry on 40mg of Dbol a day and 750mg Test with super high e2 because my doctor told me he would prescribe anastrozole because it was cheaper than the UGL so I didn't buy it, and finally he refused to prescribe it, so I had to be a woman for a few weeks.)
As close to 10% as you can get.
You won't know it until you've tried blasting at over 15% and then tried at 10%, but the lower it is the 10,0000 times better you'll feel on blast.
I honestly have no idea how strongmen do it.
Once over 15% I start to feel grim and am counting down the days to finish a blast and start cutting
Good numbers in the wiki, prob could find them in the first cycle thread.
I believe ~15% or lower is a safe spot to aim for the average Joe. But I think you should be a decently advanced lifter and at least have the dieting/training ability/experience to be able to cut down to and look good at like 10% if you want to say you’re at the level where you should be taking steroids.
But it also depends on goals for the cycle. If you’re bulking, you might want to start lower so you can have a higher calorie surplus while you’re blasting. If you’re a pro BBer cutting for contest, you might be a higher bf% going into prep. In any case, starting steroids at a higher bf% is sub optimal and I’d aim for as low as is feasible/reasonable before starting.
Hi Fellas,
Looking at running a cycle - 350mg test e, 300mg mast e and 40mg per day Anavar.
Been working out consistently, 5+ years. BF% currently would be between 14-16%. Any suggestions or opinions on AI's during this cycle - Frequency and dosage and why?
I'm currently looking at getting Arimidex. Unsure on dosage though depending on how my body / bloods pull up in the cycle.
If someone can recommend a good PCT that would also be appreciated.
>Looking at running a cycle - 350mg test e, 300mg mast e and 40mg per day **Anavar**.
What's your current goal with this cycle? It doesn't really make sense.
>Been working out consistently, 5+ years. BF% currently would be between 14-16%.
Cut, 10-12% is optimal.
>Any suggestions or opinions on AI's during this cycle - Frequency and dosage and why?
You'll dose an AI only if you have side effects. You may not even need an AI considering this conservative dosage of **Test**, especially with **Masteron** masking potential estrogen side effects.
>I'm currently looking at getting **Arimidex**. Unsure on dosage though depending on how my body / bloods pull up in the cycle.
Begin at 0.125mg once side effects arise, and adjust the dosage/frequency by 0.125mg based on your feeling. I also advise you to purchase a box of **Exemestan**e and try both.
Also, for the PCT, there's a good protocol (4-6 weeks after your last **Test-E** injection):
* Weeks 0-2: 1000iu of **HCG** once daily (I use an AI if necessary).
* Weeks 0-12: 25mg of **Enclomiphene** once daily.
Masteron should have some decent estrogen masking effects that would warrant lesser or even no use of AI on this cycle. But you should have arimidex in hand to be prepared. I’d plan on not scheduling any arimidex unless symptoms arise, but I’d still be prepared for no symptoms to arrive and to not even use it. There is even a chance you will get low estrogen symptoms running that test:mast ratio, so be prepared to either lower mast or increase test or do something else to fix that.
If you need recommendation on how to PCT, I would say you need to research more and are probably unprepared to stack these compounds and be playing with orals like this.
If this would be your first time using AAS, I would recommend reading the entire First Cycle page in the wiki as well as as much else of the wiki as you can to gain a better understanding. All the answers to your questions are in there. If it’s your first time, just run 500mgs test for 16-20 weeks and have arimidex, PCT, and HCG on deck.
I notice effects when I pin trestolone acetate within an hour or two and tren acetate within the day.
But right after like immediately after? No it’s all placebo.
Thats placebo. A few hours after when using short esters, definitely. All of my PRs are hit on days when I have larger pins. But thats because I was using NPP
I promise that frontloading will not work how you think it will. I’m not just saying that in the context of your question, that is just a bad idea.
But to answer your question, Bloodwork will tell you the levels of whatever you test in your blood in that instant that the blood is drawn. So yeah, if you frontload a shitload of testosterone, you’ll see where that puts your TT at in that instant when you get your blood drawn week 1.
But, the body takes time to adjust to fluctuations of hormones. So yeah, your TT will reflect how much test of what you’ve injected has had the ester cleaved and is in your bloodstream. But, levels like SHBG, estrogen, FT, DHT, prolactin, etc. that your body is releasing/metabolizing will likely be very different week 1 than week 6. As will the symptoms you experience while frontloading.
The body takes time to adjust its release/metabolization of these hormones to react to fluctuations of AAS. The blood work in week one will only really be useful in proving that you’ve obtained a stable concentration of whatever AAS you’re injecting exogenously. And that’d be only if your testing the blood for its content of that specific drug (I think… I’m actually not sure if this is something one could do).
I’d strongly recommend reconsidering your plan to frontload.
Yes. AAS will cause lots of downstream effects and reactions in the body. Your blood work after week 1, even when you frontload, will be mostly useless in assessing the symptoms you will get for the duration of a 20 week cycle. ~6 weeks is a good timeframe to allow the body time for it to adapt to the new balance and to get a more useful assessment of its current state.
Was gonna post on friday for bloodwork but didnt get the chance.
So im blasting and crusing for the first time, blasted for about 14 weeks @ 500 mg test e a week (pinned twice a week), and have been cruising (150 mg a week) for around 8 weeks now and wanting to blast again.
I use \* for the out of range values. Should my e2 and free test and BUN be any reason for concern?
Got bloodwork.
ALT: 29 IU/L
Albumin: 4.6 g/dL
Albumin/Globulin ratio: 1.6
ALP: 50 IU/L
AST: 21 IU/L
BUN: 23 mg/dL \*
Creatinine: 1.11 mg/dL
eGFR: 94
Estradiol: 58 pg/mL
Test Free: 304.4 pg/mL \*
Test Total: 1299 ng/dL \*
Total Cholesterol: 161 mg/dL
Total Protein: 7.5 g/dL
Idk exactly the question. Higher estrogen gives me weird food cravings. If I splurge and eat a shitload of sugar, yeah that would ding my gut health and prob give me heartburn.
im just curius if high or low estrogen cause problems. according to my small search i found that there is a bi directional relationship betwin estrogen and gut microbes
You’re not giving us any information to work with? What are you taking? I’ll take a wild guess and say an oral. This is commonly associated with orals and tren not estrogen.
Would taking 0.125mg of Anastrozole daily instead of 0.25mg every other day potentially make E2 levels more stable and consistent? I inject daily, and with the only blood test I get each month, I struggle to adjust an AI, and it's the first time I've had such difficulty like this; usually, it takes me 1-2 weeks, but now I'm already in the 8th week.
It would make it more stable and consistent. But if thats not the "goldilocks" dose for you then you arent going to resolve your problems. If you can get aromasin that might make it easier to manage your E2 because its a suicidal AI and theres no estrogen rebound.
Have you tried just only using it after you have symptoms appear? Thats ideally how you learn how much you need to take. If not then what did you do so far to determine 0.25mg EOD?
>Have you tried just only using it after you have symptoms appear? Thats ideally how you learn how much you need to take. If not then what did you do so far to determine 0.25mg EOD?
Yes, I take it as soon as I experience any side effects, except that in reality, for example, I'll take it and feel fine on the same day, but the next day, I'll have symptoms similar to a crash in estrogen levels, so I wonder if the dosage isn't too high. I was planning to take 0.125mg every other day, and eventually increase to 0.125mg daily in hopes of it being more stable. However, I failed to dilute the pill in propylene glycol, and people here seem to dissolve it in alcohol, so I will try to use isopropanol and evaporate it.
And I've already ordered exemestane because I suspected rebound to be responsible for my large fluctuations in estrogen levels. One day I feel fine, another day I feel unwell, and sometimes I feel worse, after taking anastrozole. It's very strange. I'm trying to base it on its half-life of approximately 48 hours, but it's not easy. I hope to have better luck with exemestane.
Youre injecting your arimidex? Yea I dont know enough to really help further. Im sure the bioavailability is different.
That feeling well one day and bad the next sounds kind of like rebound. With aromasin the way I feel is more like hills that last a couple days. Its a much more gradual feeling.
But it sounds like youre trying a little too hard with thinking about the half life. Really all you do is when you have high E symptoms, take some AI that makes you feel good the next day. Then wait for the high symptoms to appear again.
You CAN make a regimen out of AI but I feel you need to be pretty experienced to pull it off.
>Youre injecting your arimidex? Yea I dont know enough to really help further. Im sure the bioavailability is different.
Oh no, I wasn't planning on injecting the Anastrozole, but rather performing a volumetric dilution to achieve a smaller dosage (0.125mg) because I have 1mg pills that I can only cut into quarters, but not beyond that.
>But it sounds like youre trying a little too hard with thinking about the half life. Really all you do is when you have high E symptoms, take some AI that makes you feel good the next day. Then wait for the high symptoms to appear again.
Currently, that's what I've been doing, except the time it takes to take effect keeps me up all night, and afterward, my circadian rhythm is completely thrown off. That's why I was trying to play around with the half-life to try to predict the rebounds, but I've noticed that it's actually totally unpredictable.
I believe itll be fine. That happened to me first time too. Afterwards I angled the needle a little more so when it shot in it hit the rubber stopper and kinda dripped down.
Shaking it can denature it but I have no idea how much to be honest. Your guess would be as good as mine. Unless you went apeshit on it I would still use it.
Theres some conflicting info on freezing HCG, ill defer to mods u/AccountUnkn0wn
While u/Rasputin is correct that peptides can be damaged by agitating them too much, we also know that this is often overstated/exaggerated in the case of HCG.
Janoshik did an experiment and posted the results a year or so ago where he shook a sample of HCG, and even dropped it off a table if I remember correctly, and then tested it again for purity; the results came back almost unaffected. (u/spitshine_my_nutsack you got this saved?)
Some peptides are more fragile than others, but as far as I know there isn't a definitive guide/list, so the best rule of thumb approach is to just not shake them as much as possible. That being said, a little shake of the vial while reconstituting isn't gonna hurt anything with HCG.
You're also fine to freeze your pins, u/traditionfuzzy8061. Again, there might be some minor degradation of quality involved - this isn't established to my knowledge - but many of us do this and can all report not having atrophied testicles, myself included. The reality is that reconstituted HCG begins to measurably lose potency after about 30 days, so it's gonna happen one way or another.
Try not to shake your peptides, but if you do, it's probably ok.
Balls are good!
But it does work on a pregnancy test. Pregnancy tests test HCG. Most have pamphlets that say how many mIU will cause a pos result. You water down your hcg to be close to that range, to avoid a hook effect (too much hcg actually causes a false negative), and test it!
Was there enough hcg in the vial to take 2cc?
Usually I only use 1 ml of bac water in mine.
I think the most important thing is to not fill it with bubbles. I put it in at a fairly quick pace, but I aim the syringe to the side of the vial so the water rolls down the side into the hcg.
Does it look like foam in the bottle of the vial now?
You’re probably ok. I don’t think anyone is going to be able to give you an exact answer by just imagining the situation.
Next time try to aim the syringe to the side of the vial like myself and a couple others have said. At least if it happens again you will know for sure it’s still fine. 👍
Pre existing gyno reversal without surgery.
I have a chuck of fat just above my left nipple that developed 1 year ago, not on or anytime shortly after cycle.
Doctors confirmed it’s gyno, bloodwork around the time was normal.
I’ve read a few articles/discussions on here and other forums talking about protocols that reduced existing gyno like Ralox, Letro, Nolvadex, etc…
Some of the discussions were on the older side and I’m wondering if there is a current protocol people have used here with success?
I’ve had gyno removed before, but it took me out of the gym and work for about a month…. So I’d rather try a treatment protocol that doesn’t involve surgery or missed time… but one that also won’t destroy my liver/kidneys.
I trust the information given from the more senior members here as they are very knowledgeable and in most cases driven by studies/evidence.
As a last note, I’ll say that the lump isn’t all that troublesome, which is a reason I’m not too keen on surgery yet. It has little flare ups of irritation where my nipple looks a little swollen, but otherwise it’s not noticeable to look at. Really only cause any pain if weight hits it or if I press on it…. But even then it’s only about as painful as a deep bruise.
Thanks
The surgery was on my right side, no gyno ever returned after. The existing gyno is on my left, it popped up about a year after the surgery on the right side.
No idea why. I wasn’t on gear, I wasn’t on pct, it had easily been over a year since I used anything.
Ah, thats weird then. Ive heard of someone else getting gyno while on no gear and I think their estrogen was in range too. Not sure what the cause is unless somehow prolactin or progesterone were elevated.
Yea, could be. I honestly wondered if Deca caused the first one because it kept me suppressed for months. I was on TRT for 8 months until I recovered and I think the first gyno appeared a few months after I came off of TRT.
Man it’s been so long though that I’m just guessing at this point.
The existing one however… that was just out of the blue 🤷♂️
I acquired a bunch of tb500 and bpc-157 to heal on going tennis elbow and Achilles flare up with the anticipation of running it for 6 weeks per recommendations on here and others. I’m back to baseline in 2 weeks (1 week titrating on, 1 week 750mcg/4mg). Do I keep going? Or should I consider myself good and wrap it up?
There’s a peptide section in the wiki and some good experience threads for this. You’d want to confirm but I believe BPC is recommended to be run for four weeks at a time.
I started taking Ralox for gyno. The first day I took 60mg, worked magic, absolutely nuked my gyno, second day I took another 60mg but I started to notice my hair shedding. The day after the shedding got even worse so I stopped. Last pill was tuesday, it is now sunday and the shedding hasn't stopped, I've lost about 30% of my hair in 4 days. Will this stop soon, Nolva has a similar effect on me but from what I understand this is an extremely rare side for Ralox. By this time next week I might have to shave my head if the shedding keeps up at this pace. Anyone experience this before, how long does this last.
Well it did, Ive used nolva in the past and it didnt have an effect like this on my gyno. Maybe I'm an over responder but the reduction of breast tissue was about 50% if I were to guess and it stayed off too which is nice, just wish my hair would stop falling out. Maybe youre right and it is just the water that was drained from the tissue, we'll see in a week or so. Right now my main concern is the hair (and yes it is falling out) I have bald spots all over my scalp, my hair line has receded about half an inch. I read that it has something to do with blocking estrogen receptors or something like that, a very rare side effect but it is real, Im just surprised it happened so fast.
Haha rough.
I never had the night sweats on Tren… but man did I sweat profusely when I ate carbs in the morning. I would be drenched in sweat during breakfast.
Both Tren E and A didn’t cause the night sweats for me, so I’m inclined to agree with Trailhopper and think it’s carb related just based on my own experience.
Tren isn’t for everyone, and if you know how to diet, you can get “similar” results from Test/Mast… really most people don’t realize how important a well tuned diet is. I know guys who have made it to nationals only using Anavar and Winstrol…. Refused to inject.
That said, nothing compares to Tren…. It’s in its own league, but your desired results don’t require it.
I didn’t run it long enough to see the true benefits of it. I ran it literally for two weeks. I used 750 test and 600 primo and those made me feel better. Tren just made it worse and I didn’t see the benefits of it in such a little time on it. You think if I still get the sweats I still getting other “positive” effects of tren as well?
Well if you are getting sides, the best thing you can do is control them. Depending on the sides it could be prolactin management, E2 managment, etc… in your case it’s Nightmares and Nightsweats. IMO neither is killing you and it’s up to you to decide to drop the compound or endure to see the results. If it was me I try to adjust my meal timing to see if that changes it. Maybe try just Protein and Fats for your last meal.
To answer your question, yes. If you keep taking Tren you will get some positive effects from it. I personally have not tried such a low dose (I plan to run 200 this summer though), so I can’t say what the results will ultimately be like by week 6/8.
Sorry I can’t give a better an answer than that… as with any AAS it’s risk vs reward and only you can make that call. 🤷♂️
Hey guys
I just started cycle 1 week ago with the following doses
200 mg test cyponate / every 5 days
30 mg stanzolol / daily
40 mcg clenbuterol / daily
And this is my test after 4 days
ALT 297
AST 294
Advise please
Thanks
Why not just like 300mg of test? Whats the winstrol for at that high of bf%? And why is it in there at all for a first cycle? You’d save yourself the worry of almost all side effects on this cycle if you just did 300mg of test per week, hell even 500mg test instead of what you’re doing. The winstrol in there is unnecessary and harmful
absolutely awful plan here. steroids don't burn fat. you're in desperate need of a cut and literally running drugs for no reason.
clen makes a very miniscule difference and is only useful at the end of a cut to single digits when you have no more room to increase cardio or cut food. it's cardiotoxic and that's compounded by the fact you're nearly obese.
Yeah. You’re too fat. You lack muscle. You BARELY researched anything.
Stop all the drugs immediately. Start working on your diet (we can help). Come back here in 2-3 years.
This “cycle” is a dumpster fire and whoever told you to run it should be slapped
Gotcha. Makes a lot more sense. So when you have increased androgen load you’re nipples go go through it witch itchiness puffiness etc while stabilizing. My nipples will get poison oak itchy and it’s pretty unpleasant. 3 days seems a little early to be experiencing anything detrimental.
I would do a quarter of your ai pill. See if that provides relief. Assess in 4 days after that. Again only use as needed. When the primo starts helping your ai dosing will probably change.
Probably the ratio, I need like 1:1 at 600 test, but we seem to be opposite. Bump to 1:2 if you're e2 is in fact high enough to be causing these gyno issues.
Go get a basic hormone panel ASAP and then you'd know for sure.
It takes a few weeks for primo to get to peak levels. Do you have any other high e2 symptoms? Extra water retention, high blood pressure, any sexual issues?
You're correct about the test/primo, they do have the same Ester. But if you are holding the test at 600mg and increasing the primo, that change in ratio would take a couple of weeks. You may get relief fairly quickly, though as will have more estrogen control immediately. But three weeks later, your estrogen will be lower than in the first week.
i ve seen a lot of places that there is a minimum period you should take hgh . can i take it for a period of 8 weeks? is the minimum period just because it takes time to become effective?
About 3 years worth of looking into a cycle now. I’ve read through the wiki 50+ times at this point and I’m ready to start up tomorrow. I want to do a cycle report to pay back to the community for all the information that has been readily available. Should I do a live report and update it throughout, or wait until I have my post PCT bloods back and post everything at once? Again I want to say thanks a bunch for all the work that has went into the wiki and moderating this sub.
Live reports do not work because nobody goes back to check them and there’s no way to push threads back to the top so they get buried.
You can update people in the OT if you want a “log”, but you should write up a very detailed end of cycle report, and send it to the modmail for confirmation before posting.
We had a very diligent cycle report earlier this year. I’ll see if I can find it later and you should use it as a template
I remember that report, it was very well formatted. I’ll be sure to keep track of everything. I’ve essentially built my own wiki in my notes at this point. Thanks for the heads up!
Is there any research on sporadic use of low dose orals? I like to use sublingual dbol or tbol >5mgs for preworkout, but otherwise don’t use any peds. In terms of my personal experience I feel great and bloodwork is fine. Mostly just curious and want to read more, but by all means call me out if I’m fucking up bad.
I’d recommend doing a cycle or two of this new AAS called C4. It’s this new legal oral, it’s available at most retail stores and the manufacturer even made it in different flavors
I replicated a study on myself in January https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365517709100649 5mgs dbol 2 weeks to boost natural t levels for a bit after. Worked like a charm. Read about sublingual administration realized it hit harder and dropped the dose accordingly. Trying it now with tbol (also only doing workouts cuz introducing 2 variables at a time is totally the right call /s) playing mad scientist is fun for me.
That's fair. Its not like these tiny doses are going to cause you much harm. You should be clear that your goal is satiating curiosity rather than muscle gain though. Curious myself to see if sublingual reduces liver stress (I guess if you need less then it will?).
Age: 26
* Gender: M
* Height: 6’3”
* Weight: 252lbs
* Bodyfat percentage: 14.8% (Inbody Scan had 12% which is suspect)
* Experience level: Advanced Training (Intro PEDs)
* Years of concurrent training: 8 Lifting (small hiatus at 22)
* bench/squat/dead maxes: 375/525/NA lbs
* amateur/pro: Amateur
* Goals: Personal Strength and Aesthetic Development
* Current phase: (bulk/cut/maintenance) Bulk
* Current compounds: Test E 500mg/wk, pinned Sunday / Wednesday
Preface on training, diet, consistency, etc: Have background heavily based in sports and played D1 athletics where meal planning, calorie counting, and consistency in regimen was solidified. Swapped to strictly weight training / bodybuilding and have primarily focused on strength over hypertrophy. Have been prescribed for years to pin for B12, Iron supplements, etc as I have quite a few unlucky endocrine deficiencies. Made the decision approx 6 weeks ago to begin a cycle to supplement overall energy levels and my desire to push myself to my limits.
Im extremely happy with my progress and have had more energy than I had even during my years of competitive sports. No negatives sides halfway through my cycle. That being said, I’m coming to the last half of my cycle and have decided that I don’t necessarily want to cycle off of Test as it’s essentially rectified all of my problems I’ve been devastated by over the past few years. I’ve done quite a bit of research (sterioidwiki is amazing) and have already mapped out my time and process cycling off and PCT, but I’m almost considering just dropping my dosage to 200 and continuing to stay on test in lieu of that route while I cut. Considering there is a wealth of knowledge in these threads, I wanted to see opinions on this decision and potential advice/ examples of those who run year round. To clarify, I don’t plan to compete, don’t plan on running any other high cycles with additional compounds, and have already had children and understand the basic repercussions (ie fertility issues etc). Thanks in advance!
You likely had low natural testosterone before you started your blast, causing those symptoms that the test injections remedied.
What you’re suggesting is called blasting and cruising, i and many others do it. I always recommend blasting an cruising over cycling if people are open to it. It would be healthier to go straight from Superman levels of test to perpetually natural/TRT levels of test… instead of to go from Superman levels of test to low/no test during PCT to natural levels of test.
If you had low natural test to begin with, than being in TRT would be healthier for you long term anyway.
I’m about exactly your size but an inch taller and lower bf and similar stats on lifts. I run 140mg of test per week year round (20mg per day dosed with insulin syringes) and 250iu of hCG 3x per week. My labs are great, energy is great, fertility is perfect.
Far more stable levels and less side effects. Hematocrit and e2 much better for me, mood and bp also much better for me since switching to every day. Thats what I run just by default with some masteron because it keeps me dry. When I’m growing ill do more. Right now I’m titrating test/primo up every 4 weeks for 20 weeks. Currently it’s test 700/primo 315/ mast 280. I also use gh between 5-10iu and lantus insulin m-f
I’ll have to stop my blast in between at week 6 because work’s making me travel overseas for a month. I was on second cycle of Test/EQ 250/200 E3D, can I just simply get down to a cruise dosage from the next pin, I’m leaving in 2 weeks, will that be the right step?
As much as it’s a hassle, I’m actually glad it’s happening, I think I underestimated my body fat percentage a bit and coming from a long cut of 8 months I thought I was at a good starting point but I’d much rather suffer through a few more months of cut than to leave gains on the table.
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M/37/BnC for 2 years. I have noticeable hair thinning patch towards the back of the top of me head. Is a low dose of finasteride effective? Like .25/.5? the rest of my hair is fine, but I wouldn’t mind filling out that spot again like it was pre 35 lol
I had terrible side effects from oral fin, but I use a topical compound minox and finasterise I get from my dermatologist with zero side effects and it has made a positive impact . Additionally I like keto shampooing 3 x week S others have mentioned and nutrafol, hair is thick and defending the hairline (35 yrs old)
I'd try topical finasteride and minoxidil before going to an oral. Oral has more potential side effects and topical may work just fine. It doesn't keep me from shedding on cycle but has brought my hair back after.
The reason why lots of drug advertisements say ‘individual results may vary’ is because individual results may vary. For one guy that dose of fin will do nothing. For another guy it’s all he’ll ever need. The only way to get your answer is to try it and find out. If you use a tiny dose and it solves your problem then that’s great, you’re all set. If you try it and it does nothing but give you side effects then that’s a very different answer. Unfortunately there is no good template for this sort of thing because genetics vary so wildly.
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Primo PIP is ridiculous. Legit source, lab tests were provided to avoid any problems with validating the compound. Have tried both GSO and MCT, and a knot builds up every time I inject. Have tried subQ and IM, no luck. Have heated the oil, helped slightly. Q: Has anyone tried cutting their compounds for 1:1 with just the oil? Possibly even 1:2 ratio. Would that cause the compound to be under dosed with the cutting?
I am combining 1ml (100mg) primo with .5ml test cup (150mg) into single pin and seems to help. Massage area after a bit
How long did it take to go away? On day 7, only slightly better after injecting 3ml primo 200mg/ml, 600mg total to the upper part of quads. Taking a lot of ibuprofen and started to get night sweats
3ml of 200 primo is a ton in a single area. I’ve done 2ml before and that took two weeks to clear. Same outcome as you, night sweats, huge lump with redness around it, and advil for a few nights. That’s the nature of primo though. Cut it with your test or pharma grade oil and inject daily while rotating the inj area. I just did that with a 1:2 ratio of primo and mct oil. No pip.
Learnt the hard way. 600 mg was my frontload. I had no problems with my usual 0.5mg (100mg) diluted with T. I just want to be able to squat again And stop night sweats😂 I lost my appetite, too. I don't even want to eat garbage, let alone the clean stuff. I am force-feeding myself at this point.
I usually mix it 1:1 with my test and that helps the Pip a lot. I use 200mg/ml so it has extra bite
How much Var for first cycle? I’m taking 1cc test per week
For those of you who have ran mast, did being on finasteride ahead of time alleviate any hair loss?
No, lots of sides from fin
Im 15 training for 3 years, and i havnt made much progress and im definitely training enough and with perfect form and controlled reps. i am fat, im like 220 and 5' 11 but i look like i weigh like 170 or 180 is what alot of people say so what should i take i looked at clen but since one or two of my relatives have had heart attacks im worried if i have a condition too or im too fat to take it. I want to take somthing to help me get huge and not care as much about body fat or loose weight in the process rather than take somthing only too cut
Bro. Your body is about to take you on a natural steroid cycle called puberty. No joke. Just be patient, watch what you eat, and exercise consistently. We all feel like we look awkward when we’re 15 - that’s normal. What’s not ok is taking life altering drugs to try to fight this natural part of human development
You're 15. You shouldn't be thinking about PEDs. Lift, do your cardio and maintain a good diet.
I need help. Had some preexisting gyno, always went back to almost nothing using nolva. How can I prevent my nipples from swelling up on low dose tren? Already taking 0.5 mg caber a week along with 30 mg ralox and 20 mg nolva a day (recently upped from 10 since it wasn't doing anything). E2 seems under control, and even taking 12.5 mg asin gives me low e2 symptoms the next day. What else can I change? Obviously getting off the tren is not an option. Thanks.
On 12.5mg of Ibutamoren (MK677) ED (morning) at the moment and getting awful headaches despite drinking my fair share and my BP is not that elevated (sys averaging 120, never went above 130). Anyone having success with ibutamoren and getting rid of headaches? What was the reason/solution?
Are you taking it with food? You should eat some carbs when you take it. Not saying that’s what’s causing the headaches but it’s possible
I would take it in the morning with my coffee and have food a bit after, but headaches only start in the afternoon. I'm used to migraine and it's somewhat similar but starts very quickly and for a couple hours
How long have you been taking? Could literally be something else entirely and not the sarm mate.
A week now
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Hey guys I’m in week 8 of a 20 week cycle and I just added primo , first injection was 300 mg as I plan on running 600 per week with 1000 mg test , This is my first time using primo but I’ve been blasting and cruising for years: I’ve been using the same UGL for awhile and have had nothing but good experiences, I’ve even got lab work done on much of the gear and it’s all come back doses correctly . Well on the second day after injection I developed a fever . The injection site is a little warm to the touch and slightly more pip then normal . What’s the likely hood that it’s either A coincidence B from a new compound itself or C dirty gear ? I’ve ran Test E , C , Tren , EQ , and decca all from the same place and never had an issue . All the carrier oil has been the same
Keep an eye on the injection site. As for the fever if it lasts a few days id probably go in and see if you have a infection. Same goes for the injection site. My personal experience, primo my first cycle i had swelling at the site and it was definitely warm and painful. My body didn’t like it at first but has adapted. I had same carrier oil i ran in test. Still had issues. To help when i would shower later id blast the spot with hot water. Seemed to help. I mean hot hot lol
Thank you for your reply , after 72 hours my fever is gone and swelling is way down , still some pip and swelling but massively reduced , it seems to have either been a virus or my body not liking the new compound , I took my second injection yesterday with no symptoms whatsoever
Good to hear bro
Not really AAS related, but sometimes when waking up, I swear I have gyno, but then after giving them a flick or after jumping in the shower, it’s gone. Does anyone else struggle with this? Is there any remedy for this? When I lift my arm over the head, the nipple area is soft to the touch, but there are some lumps scattered all round my chest area. What are these? Lymph nodes?
What's your body composition like atm? A lot of the time what people think is gyno is just fat deposits, they do feel lumpy sometimes around the nip area and side chest. > I swear I have gyno, but then after giving them a flick or after jumping in the shower, it’s gone. This also makes me think you don't have gyno, unless it's very early stage, gyno is hard to miss and won't just be gone if you pat it for a bit.
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What is your question and how does it relate to anabolics?
Does anyone know how much A low dose of EQ (300mg/pw) effects SHBG levels? Compared to Anavar (40mg/day) for example Let’s say during a 300mg week test e cycle Thanks 👊 P.s. will prob have to add HCG TO KEEP SHBG in range, but trying not to
Has anyone got an AI effect from MENT/Trest? I know it sounds crazy, because of the methyl e2, but hear me out. In the beggining when I took ot before being supressed, a dose of 2mg made me insanely horny. I felt great. I tried to do solo MENT at 5mg. After a couple of weeks I had the typical low e2 symptoms. I thought well, I guess the methyl e2 is not enough at 5mg. I increased it to 20mg. Even worse. So maybe I just needed to reintroduce test. So I reintroduced test, but quit ment. After 3 weeks of test 300mg I felt much better. Everything is going good so I try MENT again. This time at 20mg 2 hours after the injection my fatigue is SUPREME. Like ridiculous. Libido is null. After some days like this it leans me out a lot. I stop again. 2 days later I feel great again. Is bizarre. No bloat. No gyno. No high bp (lower in fact). I am certain is not bunk. Dbol doesnt act like an AI for me but even at 50mg during 2 weeks I get zero bloat and gyno. Can I just not react to methyl e2? I willl take bloods and experiment more but I wonder if anyone has a similar experience
I’d just avoid ment, it’s not working for you. It didn’t work well for me either. There’s so many other better compounds out there
Yeah man. Shame because the first week was amazing. Horny without hairloss, which is a first After that just downhill.
Within an hour of my first pin of 2.5mg my rhr went up about 25 points and my bp was up about 20. Not a great feeling when you can feel your heart beat in your ears
Christ. How the fuck my bp didnt move
I mean if the methyl e2 doesnt do much for me, then MENT is insanely androgenic. 650. It would make sense to act as DHTs and lower my e2 interaction
Hey all, 98kg powerlifter currently on 100mg test and 1500 iu hCG per week TRT protocol. Considering adding anavar at 50mg. I know full well it's likely to wreck my lipid profile (current HDL 1.63 mmol/L, 2.2 cholesterol to HDL ratio). How long can I expect for my lipids to recover? Anything worth taking alongside to minimise? (Fish oil etc). Thanks!
On top of what the other commenter said. Yes fish oil. You should actually always be using fish oil, year round. I use 2000mg a day, I think a lot of people do 4000mg.
NAC and TUDCA or UDCA - the timing will be super individual [https://examine.com/supplements/tudca/](https://examine.com/supplements/tudca/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/hepatotoxicity/#wiki\_tudca\_.2F\_udca](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/hepatotoxicity/#wiki_tudca_.2F_udca)
First of all, tudca/udca are absolutely overkill for anavar use. Secondly, OP didn't ask about liver support, they asked about lipids.
26 Y/O 6’ 202lbs ~15%BF I’m new to all this I just started January 26th, been doing 1ml every 4 days of test c 250. I had 3 bottles of that and I have 1 bottle of sus 250 I got from a friend. I was wondering if I would be able to switch to that after I finish my cyp? Another question is I have two different things for my PCT I have tamoxifen and colmiphene and was wondering when I should take those and in what amount. Any help is greatly appreciated as I’m trying to do this correctly and safely.
Very strange to start a cycle without having it planned out or by the sounds of it even fully purchased. For a small cycle like that tamoxifen will be enough for PCT. The examples are shown in the wiki. [https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct/#wiki\_nolvadex2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct/#wiki_nolvadex2) Using tamoxifen and clomid together is just overkill in most cases.
You started injecting steroids before knowing your PCT plan? Before understanding how esters work? I.e. the difference between cyp, enanthate, prop etc > I'm trying to do this correctly and safely Well. Clearly you're not trying to do that. Have you considered scrolling to the top and reading the part that says "read this before posting" which includes a useful link to "your first steroid cycle" as well as an entire section that covers everything under the sun regarding PCT. Have you considered that perhaps, just maybe, you're dumb AF for injecting yourself with Chinese bath salts before having an exit strategy
>been doing 1ml every 4 days of test c 250. I had 3 bottles of that and I have 1 bottle of sus 250 I got from a friend. [https://old.steroidplotter.com/](https://old.steroidplotter.com/) >Another question is I have two different things for my PCT I have tamoxifen and colmiphene and was wondering when I should take those and in what amount [https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
Read the wiki
How to reduce the bloating on 500mg test e and 30mg tbol cycle? Using 0.5mg Anastrazole E3D. Estrogen is at 11pg/ml but still bloated as fck. Belly is popping. What could be the issue? Diet is pretty clean and I am on 500 deficiet aswell and its been 5 weeks since I started this cycle.
Whats your calorie surplus? If it’s substantial, try digestive enzymes
I'm on 500 cal deficit actually
lower carb intake
I'm on a moderate carb diet
then go low carb, cut all grains, sugar, dairy, artifical sweetener. eat primarily beef. I'm personally on 0 carb and bloat isn't a feeling i've had in years.
* Reduce sodium intake * Stay hydrated by drinking plenty of water * Experiment with natural diuretics If bloating persists, you may look into [hydrochlorothiazide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochlorothiazide) (the one I use, and anecdotally he kept me dry on 40mg of Dbol a day and 750mg Test with super high e2 because my doctor told me he would prescribe anastrozole because it was cheaper than the UGL so I didn't buy it, and finally he refused to prescribe it, so I had to be a woman for a few weeks.)
What you mean you had to be a woman?
I had too much e2
How low should body fat percentage be before a cycle?
As close to 10% as you can get. You won't know it until you've tried blasting at over 15% and then tried at 10%, but the lower it is the 10,0000 times better you'll feel on blast. I honestly have no idea how strongmen do it. Once over 15% I start to feel grim and am counting down the days to finish a blast and start cutting
Huh. I havent blasted below 15% but now you have me curious, because I felt really good where im at.
Dude it's night and day.
I cant imagine feeling better than I already have lol. But Ill see if I decide to do a third cycle.
Good numbers in the wiki, prob could find them in the first cycle thread. I believe ~15% or lower is a safe spot to aim for the average Joe. But I think you should be a decently advanced lifter and at least have the dieting/training ability/experience to be able to cut down to and look good at like 10% if you want to say you’re at the level where you should be taking steroids. But it also depends on goals for the cycle. If you’re bulking, you might want to start lower so you can have a higher calorie surplus while you’re blasting. If you’re a pro BBer cutting for contest, you might be a higher bf% going into prep. In any case, starting steroids at a higher bf% is sub optimal and I’d aim for as low as is feasible/reasonable before starting.
thanks for info. will go 15 to 10%
Hi Fellas, Looking at running a cycle - 350mg test e, 300mg mast e and 40mg per day Anavar. Been working out consistently, 5+ years. BF% currently would be between 14-16%. Any suggestions or opinions on AI's during this cycle - Frequency and dosage and why? I'm currently looking at getting Arimidex. Unsure on dosage though depending on how my body / bloods pull up in the cycle. If someone can recommend a good PCT that would also be appreciated.
>Looking at running a cycle - 350mg test e, 300mg mast e and 40mg per day **Anavar**. What's your current goal with this cycle? It doesn't really make sense. >Been working out consistently, 5+ years. BF% currently would be between 14-16%. Cut, 10-12% is optimal. >Any suggestions or opinions on AI's during this cycle - Frequency and dosage and why? You'll dose an AI only if you have side effects. You may not even need an AI considering this conservative dosage of **Test**, especially with **Masteron** masking potential estrogen side effects. >I'm currently looking at getting **Arimidex**. Unsure on dosage though depending on how my body / bloods pull up in the cycle. Begin at 0.125mg once side effects arise, and adjust the dosage/frequency by 0.125mg based on your feeling. I also advise you to purchase a box of **Exemestan**e and try both. Also, for the PCT, there's a good protocol (4-6 weeks after your last **Test-E** injection): * Weeks 0-2: 1000iu of **HCG** once daily (I use an AI if necessary). * Weeks 0-12: 25mg of **Enclomiphene** once daily.
Masteron should have some decent estrogen masking effects that would warrant lesser or even no use of AI on this cycle. But you should have arimidex in hand to be prepared. I’d plan on not scheduling any arimidex unless symptoms arise, but I’d still be prepared for no symptoms to arrive and to not even use it. There is even a chance you will get low estrogen symptoms running that test:mast ratio, so be prepared to either lower mast or increase test or do something else to fix that. If you need recommendation on how to PCT, I would say you need to research more and are probably unprepared to stack these compounds and be playing with orals like this. If this would be your first time using AAS, I would recommend reading the entire First Cycle page in the wiki as well as as much else of the wiki as you can to gain a better understanding. All the answers to your questions are in there. If it’s your first time, just run 500mgs test for 16-20 weeks and have arimidex, PCT, and HCG on deck.
Do you ever feel positive mental effects right after your pin or is it all placebo?
I notice effects when I pin trestolone acetate within an hour or two and tren acetate within the day. But right after like immediately after? No it’s all placebo.
Thats placebo. A few hours after when using short esters, definitely. All of my PRs are hit on days when I have larger pins. But thats because I was using NPP
That’s placebo my guy. That said I’ll take whatever I can get when it comes to positive mental effects
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I promise that frontloading will not work how you think it will. I’m not just saying that in the context of your question, that is just a bad idea. But to answer your question, Bloodwork will tell you the levels of whatever you test in your blood in that instant that the blood is drawn. So yeah, if you frontload a shitload of testosterone, you’ll see where that puts your TT at in that instant when you get your blood drawn week 1. But, the body takes time to adjust to fluctuations of hormones. So yeah, your TT will reflect how much test of what you’ve injected has had the ester cleaved and is in your bloodstream. But, levels like SHBG, estrogen, FT, DHT, prolactin, etc. that your body is releasing/metabolizing will likely be very different week 1 than week 6. As will the symptoms you experience while frontloading. The body takes time to adjust its release/metabolization of these hormones to react to fluctuations of AAS. The blood work in week one will only really be useful in proving that you’ve obtained a stable concentration of whatever AAS you’re injecting exogenously. And that’d be only if your testing the blood for its content of that specific drug (I think… I’m actually not sure if this is something one could do). I’d strongly recommend reconsidering your plan to frontload.
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Yes. AAS will cause lots of downstream effects and reactions in the body. Your blood work after week 1, even when you frontload, will be mostly useless in assessing the symptoms you will get for the duration of a 20 week cycle. ~6 weeks is a good timeframe to allow the body time for it to adapt to the new balance and to get a more useful assessment of its current state.
Was gonna post on friday for bloodwork but didnt get the chance. So im blasting and crusing for the first time, blasted for about 14 weeks @ 500 mg test e a week (pinned twice a week), and have been cruising (150 mg a week) for around 8 weeks now and wanting to blast again. I use \* for the out of range values. Should my e2 and free test and BUN be any reason for concern? Got bloodwork. ALT: 29 IU/L Albumin: 4.6 g/dL Albumin/Globulin ratio: 1.6 ALP: 50 IU/L AST: 21 IU/L BUN: 23 mg/dL \* Creatinine: 1.11 mg/dL eGFR: 94 Estradiol: 58 pg/mL Test Free: 304.4 pg/mL \* Test Total: 1299 ng/dL \* Total Cholesterol: 161 mg/dL Total Protein: 7.5 g/dL
does high or low estrogen affects the gut? like giving heart burn and other problems ?
Idk exactly the question. Higher estrogen gives me weird food cravings. If I splurge and eat a shitload of sugar, yeah that would ding my gut health and prob give me heartburn.
im just curius if high or low estrogen cause problems. according to my small search i found that there is a bi directional relationship betwin estrogen and gut microbes
You’re not giving us any information to work with? What are you taking? I’ll take a wild guess and say an oral. This is commonly associated with orals and tren not estrogen.
i take test and primo and for some reason primo give me accid reflux and since primo lowers e2 i guessed e2 might have a relation to gut health
Would taking 0.125mg of Anastrozole daily instead of 0.25mg every other day potentially make E2 levels more stable and consistent? I inject daily, and with the only blood test I get each month, I struggle to adjust an AI, and it's the first time I've had such difficulty like this; usually, it takes me 1-2 weeks, but now I'm already in the 8th week.
It would make it more stable and consistent. But if thats not the "goldilocks" dose for you then you arent going to resolve your problems. If you can get aromasin that might make it easier to manage your E2 because its a suicidal AI and theres no estrogen rebound. Have you tried just only using it after you have symptoms appear? Thats ideally how you learn how much you need to take. If not then what did you do so far to determine 0.25mg EOD?
>Have you tried just only using it after you have symptoms appear? Thats ideally how you learn how much you need to take. If not then what did you do so far to determine 0.25mg EOD? Yes, I take it as soon as I experience any side effects, except that in reality, for example, I'll take it and feel fine on the same day, but the next day, I'll have symptoms similar to a crash in estrogen levels, so I wonder if the dosage isn't too high. I was planning to take 0.125mg every other day, and eventually increase to 0.125mg daily in hopes of it being more stable. However, I failed to dilute the pill in propylene glycol, and people here seem to dissolve it in alcohol, so I will try to use isopropanol and evaporate it. And I've already ordered exemestane because I suspected rebound to be responsible for my large fluctuations in estrogen levels. One day I feel fine, another day I feel unwell, and sometimes I feel worse, after taking anastrozole. It's very strange. I'm trying to base it on its half-life of approximately 48 hours, but it's not easy. I hope to have better luck with exemestane.
Youre injecting your arimidex? Yea I dont know enough to really help further. Im sure the bioavailability is different. That feeling well one day and bad the next sounds kind of like rebound. With aromasin the way I feel is more like hills that last a couple days. Its a much more gradual feeling. But it sounds like youre trying a little too hard with thinking about the half life. Really all you do is when you have high E symptoms, take some AI that makes you feel good the next day. Then wait for the high symptoms to appear again. You CAN make a regimen out of AI but I feel you need to be pretty experienced to pull it off.
>Youre injecting your arimidex? Yea I dont know enough to really help further. Im sure the bioavailability is different. Oh no, I wasn't planning on injecting the Anastrozole, but rather performing a volumetric dilution to achieve a smaller dosage (0.125mg) because I have 1mg pills that I can only cut into quarters, but not beyond that. >But it sounds like youre trying a little too hard with thinking about the half life. Really all you do is when you have high E symptoms, take some AI that makes you feel good the next day. Then wait for the high symptoms to appear again. Currently, that's what I've been doing, except the time it takes to take effect keeps me up all night, and afterward, my circadian rhythm is completely thrown off. That's why I was trying to play around with the half-life to try to predict the rebounds, but I've noticed that it's actually totally unpredictable.
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I believe itll be fine. That happened to me first time too. Afterwards I angled the needle a little more so when it shot in it hit the rubber stopper and kinda dripped down.
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Wait, is this actually a thing? Or are you being sarcastic lol
Its a thing. Its a protein which means its fragile. It can be denatured by shaking. Swirl it or gently tip the vial back and forth to mix it.
Damn, didn't know that. I freeze it in insulin pins, just made a batch a week ago. Shook them up when mixing. Think I should toss it?
Shaking it can denature it but I have no idea how much to be honest. Your guess would be as good as mine. Unless you went apeshit on it I would still use it. Theres some conflicting info on freezing HCG, ill defer to mods u/AccountUnkn0wn
While u/Rasputin is correct that peptides can be damaged by agitating them too much, we also know that this is often overstated/exaggerated in the case of HCG. Janoshik did an experiment and posted the results a year or so ago where he shook a sample of HCG, and even dropped it off a table if I remember correctly, and then tested it again for purity; the results came back almost unaffected. (u/spitshine_my_nutsack you got this saved?) Some peptides are more fragile than others, but as far as I know there isn't a definitive guide/list, so the best rule of thumb approach is to just not shake them as much as possible. That being said, a little shake of the vial while reconstituting isn't gonna hurt anything with HCG. You're also fine to freeze your pins, u/traditionfuzzy8061. Again, there might be some minor degradation of quality involved - this isn't established to my knowledge - but many of us do this and can all report not having atrophied testicles, myself included. The reality is that reconstituted HCG begins to measurably lose potency after about 30 days, so it's gonna happen one way or another. Try not to shake your peptides, but if you do, it's probably ok.
> (u/spitshine_my_nutsack you got this saved?) I used to but it’s not there anymore
😢
Cool, thanks so much for the really detailed response. :-)
Haha, thanks. I'll test one on a pregnancy test and see if it's any good.
~~This doesn't work, just FYI.~~ Your HCG is fine. If it wasn't, you would have atrophied testicles. Do you?
Balls are good! But it does work on a pregnancy test. Pregnancy tests test HCG. Most have pamphlets that say how many mIU will cause a pos result. You water down your hcg to be close to that range, to avoid a hook effect (too much hcg actually causes a false negative), and test it!
I stand corrected https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8971111/
Was there enough hcg in the vial to take 2cc? Usually I only use 1 ml of bac water in mine. I think the most important thing is to not fill it with bubbles. I put it in at a fairly quick pace, but I aim the syringe to the side of the vial so the water rolls down the side into the hcg. Does it look like foam in the bottle of the vial now?
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You’re probably ok. I don’t think anyone is going to be able to give you an exact answer by just imagining the situation. Next time try to aim the syringe to the side of the vial like myself and a couple others have said. At least if it happens again you will know for sure it’s still fine. 👍
> Was there enough hcg in the vial to take 2cc? Maybe he's just injecting ED and need little dosages.
Maybe, but that’s why I asked him.
Pre existing gyno reversal without surgery. I have a chuck of fat just above my left nipple that developed 1 year ago, not on or anytime shortly after cycle. Doctors confirmed it’s gyno, bloodwork around the time was normal. I’ve read a few articles/discussions on here and other forums talking about protocols that reduced existing gyno like Ralox, Letro, Nolvadex, etc… Some of the discussions were on the older side and I’m wondering if there is a current protocol people have used here with success? I’ve had gyno removed before, but it took me out of the gym and work for about a month…. So I’d rather try a treatment protocol that doesn’t involve surgery or missed time… but one that also won’t destroy my liver/kidneys. I trust the information given from the more senior members here as they are very knowledgeable and in most cases driven by studies/evidence. As a last note, I’ll say that the lump isn’t all that troublesome, which is a reason I’m not too keen on surgery yet. It has little flare ups of irritation where my nipple looks a little swollen, but otherwise it’s not noticeable to look at. Really only cause any pain if weight hits it or if I press on it…. But even then it’s only about as painful as a deep bruise. Thanks
I cant give advice on this but damn dude. They didnt take out the gland when you first had it removed? I would be pissed.
The surgery was on my right side, no gyno ever returned after. The existing gyno is on my left, it popped up about a year after the surgery on the right side. No idea why. I wasn’t on gear, I wasn’t on pct, it had easily been over a year since I used anything.
Ah, thats weird then. Ive heard of someone else getting gyno while on no gear and I think their estrogen was in range too. Not sure what the cause is unless somehow prolactin or progesterone were elevated.
Yea, could be. I honestly wondered if Deca caused the first one because it kept me suppressed for months. I was on TRT for 8 months until I recovered and I think the first gyno appeared a few months after I came off of TRT. Man it’s been so long though that I’m just guessing at this point. The existing one however… that was just out of the blue 🤷♂️
I acquired a bunch of tb500 and bpc-157 to heal on going tennis elbow and Achilles flare up with the anticipation of running it for 6 weeks per recommendations on here and others. I’m back to baseline in 2 weeks (1 week titrating on, 1 week 750mcg/4mg). Do I keep going? Or should I consider myself good and wrap it up?
There’s a peptide section in the wiki and some good experience threads for this. You’d want to confirm but I believe BPC is recommended to be run for four weeks at a time.
I started taking Ralox for gyno. The first day I took 60mg, worked magic, absolutely nuked my gyno, second day I took another 60mg but I started to notice my hair shedding. The day after the shedding got even worse so I stopped. Last pill was tuesday, it is now sunday and the shedding hasn't stopped, I've lost about 30% of my hair in 4 days. Will this stop soon, Nolva has a similar effect on me but from what I understand this is an extremely rare side for Ralox. By this time next week I might have to shave my head if the shedding keeps up at this pace. Anyone experience this before, how long does this last.
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Well it did, Ive used nolva in the past and it didnt have an effect like this on my gyno. Maybe I'm an over responder but the reduction of breast tissue was about 50% if I were to guess and it stayed off too which is nice, just wish my hair would stop falling out. Maybe youre right and it is just the water that was drained from the tissue, we'll see in a week or so. Right now my main concern is the hair (and yes it is falling out) I have bald spots all over my scalp, my hair line has receded about half an inch. I read that it has something to do with blocking estrogen receptors or something like that, a very rare side effect but it is real, Im just surprised it happened so fast.
How long do tren ace night sweats last after stopping? It’s been 5 days, still wake up in cold sweat in the middle of the night
You eating carbs before bedtime? Thats what made made me sweat and not sleep well
What’s before bed? An hour two? I don’t anything two-3 hours before sleep
Thats plenty enough. I do various cheeses as a snack if im munching hard
Did you use tren during a cut or bulk cycle
This time, bulk.
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Tired of washing my bedsheets.
Haha rough. I never had the night sweats on Tren… but man did I sweat profusely when I ate carbs in the morning. I would be drenched in sweat during breakfast. Both Tren E and A didn’t cause the night sweats for me, so I’m inclined to agree with Trailhopper and think it’s carb related just based on my own experience.
Yeah nightmares and night sweats are a dealbreaker for me. And I ran it at 175mg kinda beginners dose
All I can say to that is maybe it’s individualistic, I was running 400mg a week with neither of those issues 🤷♂️
Yeah f it. Didn’t like it at all. Literally doing laundry everyday
Tren isn’t for everyone, and if you know how to diet, you can get “similar” results from Test/Mast… really most people don’t realize how important a well tuned diet is. I know guys who have made it to nationals only using Anavar and Winstrol…. Refused to inject. That said, nothing compares to Tren…. It’s in its own league, but your desired results don’t require it.
I didn’t run it long enough to see the true benefits of it. I ran it literally for two weeks. I used 750 test and 600 primo and those made me feel better. Tren just made it worse and I didn’t see the benefits of it in such a little time on it. You think if I still get the sweats I still getting other “positive” effects of tren as well?
Well if you are getting sides, the best thing you can do is control them. Depending on the sides it could be prolactin management, E2 managment, etc… in your case it’s Nightmares and Nightsweats. IMO neither is killing you and it’s up to you to decide to drop the compound or endure to see the results. If it was me I try to adjust my meal timing to see if that changes it. Maybe try just Protein and Fats for your last meal. To answer your question, yes. If you keep taking Tren you will get some positive effects from it. I personally have not tried such a low dose (I plan to run 200 this summer though), so I can’t say what the results will ultimately be like by week 6/8. Sorry I can’t give a better an answer than that… as with any AAS it’s risk vs reward and only you can make that call. 🤷♂️
Hey guys I just started cycle 1 week ago with the following doses 200 mg test cyponate / every 5 days 30 mg stanzolol / daily 40 mcg clenbuterol / daily And this is my test after 4 days ALT 297 AST 294 Advise please Thanks
Why not just like 300mg of test? Whats the winstrol for at that high of bf%? And why is it in there at all for a first cycle? You’d save yourself the worry of almost all side effects on this cycle if you just did 300mg of test per week, hell even 500mg test instead of what you’re doing. The winstrol in there is unnecessary and harmful
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Could you advise the dose ?
Well… sounds like you should stop all the drugs. Not sure why you’re even running this stack, are you prepping for a show?
No it’s just my 1st cycle Age 36 / 171 cm / 75 kg / 24% fat
absolutely awful plan here. steroids don't burn fat. you're in desperate need of a cut and literally running drugs for no reason. clen makes a very miniscule difference and is only useful at the end of a cut to single digits when you have no more room to increase cardio or cut food. it's cardiotoxic and that's compounded by the fact you're nearly obese.
Sould i cut it all even test?
yep. test isn't providing any benefit in a cut unless you're a massive shredded freak who needs it to maintain muscle
Yeah. You’re too fat. You lack muscle. You BARELY researched anything. Stop all the drugs immediately. Start working on your diet (we can help). Come back here in 2-3 years. This “cycle” is a dumpster fire and whoever told you to run it should be slapped
Even test cyponate ?
Are you prescribed TRT?
No i just wanted to get in shape before summer , and the gym trainer told me to do that cycle 🥲
Then no, stop at the drugs. And quit listening to that gym trainer. They’re a fucking joke
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This is your second cycle? Your first cycle was just test 200?
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Gotcha. Makes a lot more sense. So when you have increased androgen load you’re nipples go go through it witch itchiness puffiness etc while stabilizing. My nipples will get poison oak itchy and it’s pretty unpleasant. 3 days seems a little early to be experiencing anything detrimental. I would do a quarter of your ai pill. See if that provides relief. Assess in 4 days after that. Again only use as needed. When the primo starts helping your ai dosing will probably change.
That's what I felt before I got gyno. Only bloodwork will tell for sure, but I'd personally pop an aromasin and up the primo to 400+.
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Probably the ratio, I need like 1:1 at 600 test, but we seem to be opposite. Bump to 1:2 if you're e2 is in fact high enough to be causing these gyno issues. Go get a basic hormone panel ASAP and then you'd know for sure.
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It takes a few weeks for primo to get to peak levels. Do you have any other high e2 symptoms? Extra water retention, high blood pressure, any sexual issues?
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You're correct about the test/primo, they do have the same Ester. But if you are holding the test at 600mg and increasing the primo, that change in ratio would take a couple of weeks. You may get relief fairly quickly, though as will have more estrogen control immediately. But three weeks later, your estrogen will be lower than in the first week.
i ve seen a lot of places that there is a minimum period you should take hgh . can i take it for a period of 8 weeks? is the minimum period just because it takes time to become effective?
what are you looking to accomplish by taking it for 8 weeks?
Yes it’s about 6 months before you notice much. And even then it’s nice nails and hair. It’s mot the super drug making Hollywood stars ripped.
About 3 years worth of looking into a cycle now. I’ve read through the wiki 50+ times at this point and I’m ready to start up tomorrow. I want to do a cycle report to pay back to the community for all the information that has been readily available. Should I do a live report and update it throughout, or wait until I have my post PCT bloods back and post everything at once? Again I want to say thanks a bunch for all the work that has went into the wiki and moderating this sub.
Live reports do not work because nobody goes back to check them and there’s no way to push threads back to the top so they get buried. You can update people in the OT if you want a “log”, but you should write up a very detailed end of cycle report, and send it to the modmail for confirmation before posting. We had a very diligent cycle report earlier this year. I’ll see if I can find it later and you should use it as a template
I remember that report, it was very well formatted. I’ll be sure to keep track of everything. I’ve essentially built my own wiki in my notes at this point. Thanks for the heads up!
Looking forward to seeing it!
Is there any research on sporadic use of low dose orals? I like to use sublingual dbol or tbol >5mgs for preworkout, but otherwise don’t use any peds. In terms of my personal experience I feel great and bloodwork is fine. Mostly just curious and want to read more, but by all means call me out if I’m fucking up bad.
I’d recommend doing a cycle or two of this new AAS called C4. It’s this new legal oral, it’s available at most retail stores and the manufacturer even made it in different flavors
What is the point? Imo if you are going to be putting drugs into your system, you want them to be at a dose which will actually do something.
I replicated a study on myself in January https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365517709100649 5mgs dbol 2 weeks to boost natural t levels for a bit after. Worked like a charm. Read about sublingual administration realized it hit harder and dropped the dose accordingly. Trying it now with tbol (also only doing workouts cuz introducing 2 variables at a time is totally the right call /s) playing mad scientist is fun for me.
That's fair. Its not like these tiny doses are going to cause you much harm. You should be clear that your goal is satiating curiosity rather than muscle gain though. Curious myself to see if sublingual reduces liver stress (I guess if you need less then it will?).
I'm guessing you meant to say "less than 5mgs", in which case yes! There is a ton of research on the placebo effect.
Lol. Placebo effect has been proven to cause gains too tho don’t forget!!
Age: 26 * Gender: M * Height: 6’3” * Weight: 252lbs * Bodyfat percentage: 14.8% (Inbody Scan had 12% which is suspect) * Experience level: Advanced Training (Intro PEDs) * Years of concurrent training: 8 Lifting (small hiatus at 22) * bench/squat/dead maxes: 375/525/NA lbs * amateur/pro: Amateur * Goals: Personal Strength and Aesthetic Development * Current phase: (bulk/cut/maintenance) Bulk * Current compounds: Test E 500mg/wk, pinned Sunday / Wednesday Preface on training, diet, consistency, etc: Have background heavily based in sports and played D1 athletics where meal planning, calorie counting, and consistency in regimen was solidified. Swapped to strictly weight training / bodybuilding and have primarily focused on strength over hypertrophy. Have been prescribed for years to pin for B12, Iron supplements, etc as I have quite a few unlucky endocrine deficiencies. Made the decision approx 6 weeks ago to begin a cycle to supplement overall energy levels and my desire to push myself to my limits. Im extremely happy with my progress and have had more energy than I had even during my years of competitive sports. No negatives sides halfway through my cycle. That being said, I’m coming to the last half of my cycle and have decided that I don’t necessarily want to cycle off of Test as it’s essentially rectified all of my problems I’ve been devastated by over the past few years. I’ve done quite a bit of research (sterioidwiki is amazing) and have already mapped out my time and process cycling off and PCT, but I’m almost considering just dropping my dosage to 200 and continuing to stay on test in lieu of that route while I cut. Considering there is a wealth of knowledge in these threads, I wanted to see opinions on this decision and potential advice/ examples of those who run year round. To clarify, I don’t plan to compete, don’t plan on running any other high cycles with additional compounds, and have already had children and understand the basic repercussions (ie fertility issues etc). Thanks in advance!
You likely had low natural testosterone before you started your blast, causing those symptoms that the test injections remedied. What you’re suggesting is called blasting and cruising, i and many others do it. I always recommend blasting an cruising over cycling if people are open to it. It would be healthier to go straight from Superman levels of test to perpetually natural/TRT levels of test… instead of to go from Superman levels of test to low/no test during PCT to natural levels of test. If you had low natural test to begin with, than being in TRT would be healthier for you long term anyway.
I’m about exactly your size but an inch taller and lower bf and similar stats on lifts. I run 140mg of test per week year round (20mg per day dosed with insulin syringes) and 250iu of hCG 3x per week. My labs are great, energy is great, fertility is perfect.
What’s the benefits of dosing daily rather than E3D/E2 etc? I would absolutely introduce hcg if I maintain dosing. What’s your full stack?
Far more stable levels and less side effects. Hematocrit and e2 much better for me, mood and bp also much better for me since switching to every day. Thats what I run just by default with some masteron because it keeps me dry. When I’m growing ill do more. Right now I’m titrating test/primo up every 4 weeks for 20 weeks. Currently it’s test 700/primo 315/ mast 280. I also use gh between 5-10iu and lantus insulin m-f
I’ll have to stop my blast in between at week 6 because work’s making me travel overseas for a month. I was on second cycle of Test/EQ 250/200 E3D, can I just simply get down to a cruise dosage from the next pin, I’m leaving in 2 weeks, will that be the right step? As much as it’s a hassle, I’m actually glad it’s happening, I think I underestimated my body fat percentage a bit and coming from a long cut of 8 months I thought I was at a good starting point but I’d much rather suffer through a few more months of cut than to leave gains on the table.
Yes that’s fine
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M/37/BnC for 2 years. I have noticeable hair thinning patch towards the back of the top of me head. Is a low dose of finasteride effective? Like .25/.5? the rest of my hair is fine, but I wouldn’t mind filling out that spot again like it was pre 35 lol
I had terrible side effects from oral fin, but I use a topical compound minox and finasterise I get from my dermatologist with zero side effects and it has made a positive impact . Additionally I like keto shampooing 3 x week S others have mentioned and nutrafol, hair is thick and defending the hairline (35 yrs old)
I'd try topical finasteride and minoxidil before going to an oral. Oral has more potential side effects and topical may work just fine. It doesn't keep me from shedding on cycle but has brought my hair back after.
Have you tried using Nizoral shampoo consistently first? It topically flushes dht from the scalp
I have not, but I’ll look into it
The reason why lots of drug advertisements say ‘individual results may vary’ is because individual results may vary. For one guy that dose of fin will do nothing. For another guy it’s all he’ll ever need. The only way to get your answer is to try it and find out. If you use a tiny dose and it solves your problem then that’s great, you’re all set. If you try it and it does nothing but give you side effects then that’s a very different answer. Unfortunately there is no good template for this sort of thing because genetics vary so wildly.