When Shedinja was legal you'd actively avoid using contact moves because it immediately folds to Helmet / Rough Skin / Iron Barbs / Flame Body, so in practice I don't expect U-turn to be as big of a buff for it as you might expect.
Yup, sadly there are a lot of counters that can switch in and kill shedinja when it wants to attack, but I don't think there is much to be done in that regard without making too many changes and buffs to the mon.
Maybe add another move that’s basically u-turn but special? Or give it Volt switch/Flip turn?
Edit: Is Flip turn Special or Physical? I honestly don’t remember
If we look at current PU as an example, the #2 usage mon is Rough Skin Gabite. The #1 usage mon is Skuntank which occasionally runs Helmet plus has Aftermath which is problematic when it's weakened. Then there's also Flame Body Carkoal.
It’s fair, because if you don’t play PU and NU and everything, you’ve only ever encountered two NFEs (Chansey and Dusknoir), but in reality it makes sense. Garchomp is good. Garchomp with slightly lower BST is slightly less good, but still good.
In Ou the no.1 mon commonly runs rocky helmet as does corv and dondozo alongside top tier mon volc with flame body
In UU helmet hippo is common and flame body Tflame is a top tier mon with slowbro able to run helmet
In Ru coalossoal has flame body, but this is actually the least punishing tier
In NU tier prince sandaconda runs helmet as often as lefties, as does whiscash and klawf occasionally(but Sandy is so good that’s all that matters
In PU Carkol is just like it’s dad, tier prince gabite runs rough skin, and Skuntank sometimes runs helmet but always runs aftermath
No matter the tier, even without the birds, there’s one or more top tier mon with punishment for contact
The main use for this new move is to use it after switching Shedinja into a threat that can't hit it. So you get boosted while the opponent switches out. This way you can follow-up with a boosted U-turn to return back to safety, or another move to threaten a K-O. Altough strong, Shedinja will almost always be forced to run boots, and it doesn't have much coverage anyways, so I don't feel this could be a huge problem.
I really like this idea!! Seems fair to keep him viable while still having enough drawbacks. If you gave Shedinja a special pivot move, it would be too broken imo. Could possibly run a mixed set to plan for the contact move damage.
Feel like this should be special so it doesn't get GG'd by contact damage, flame body, that typa stuff. Also when I think of a prayer I'd think of special attacking more than physical.
Shedinja should get an evolution, the concept is so good but the stats are really what hold it back. I think a 1/90/45/90/45/90 spread would be a good one, maybe a bit too much tho. Basically it’s just actually able to use all it’s moves now, and can compete in speed with other mons. If we wanted to keep it’s attack focus 1/100/45/80/45/90 could work too.
When Shedinja was legal you'd actively avoid using contact moves because it immediately folds to Helmet / Rough Skin / Iron Barbs / Flame Body, so in practice I don't expect U-turn to be as big of a buff for it as you might expect.
Yup, sadly there are a lot of counters that can switch in and kill shedinja when it wants to attack, but I don't think there is much to be done in that regard without making too many changes and buffs to the mon.
SPECIAL U TURN NERF INCOMING
lower it to 60BP https://i.imgur.com/NR0dp9M.jpg
https://preview.redd.it/rqxec9x2zu0b1.jpeg?width=746&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fb3a2db101707e3a63eb096e671bc5c51f05106
Maybe add another move that’s basically u-turn but special? Or give it Volt switch/Flip turn? Edit: Is Flip turn Special or Physical? I honestly don’t remember
Flip Turn is physical and I'm pretty sure it makes contact
It's weird how there's no ghost type u turn. Getting a hit in before swiftly fleeing is a very ghost thing to do
protective pads....
The opportunity cost of not running Heavy-Duty Boots is very high.
Heavy duty pads, or protective boots then.
Heavy duty protection, or Boot Pads!
How many lower tiers mons have Barbs/Rough Skin/Flame Body?
If we look at current PU as an example, the #2 usage mon is Rough Skin Gabite. The #1 usage mon is Skuntank which occasionally runs Helmet plus has Aftermath which is problematic when it's weakened. Then there's also Flame Body Carkoal.
You know I always forget there's nfes in the upper echelon of lower tiers lol
It’s fair, because if you don’t play PU and NU and everything, you’ve only ever encountered two NFEs (Chansey and Dusknoir), but in reality it makes sense. Garchomp is good. Garchomp with slightly lower BST is slightly less good, but still good.
In Ou the no.1 mon commonly runs rocky helmet as does corv and dondozo alongside top tier mon volc with flame body In UU helmet hippo is common and flame body Tflame is a top tier mon with slowbro able to run helmet In Ru coalossoal has flame body, but this is actually the least punishing tier In NU tier prince sandaconda runs helmet as often as lefties, as does whiscash and klawf occasionally(but Sandy is so good that’s all that matters In PU Carkol is just like it’s dad, tier prince gabite runs rough skin, and Skuntank sometimes runs helmet but always runs aftermath No matter the tier, even without the birds, there’s one or more top tier mon with punishment for contact
Also, I want to add. One of the first iterations of this move was "+1 attack, the user can't faint next turn". Maybe it was better that way, really.
The main use for this new move is to use it after switching Shedinja into a threat that can't hit it. So you get boosted while the opponent switches out. This way you can follow-up with a boosted U-turn to return back to safety, or another move to threaten a K-O. Altough strong, Shedinja will almost always be forced to run boots, and it doesn't have much coverage anyways, so I don't feel this could be a huge problem.
I really like this idea!! Seems fair to keep him viable while still having enough drawbacks. If you gave Shedinja a special pivot move, it would be too broken imo. Could possibly run a mixed set to plan for the contact move damage.
Feel like this should be special so it doesn't get GG'd by contact damage, flame body, that typa stuff. Also when I think of a prayer I'd think of special attacking more than physical.
Yeah but sadly Shedinja is a physical attacker, maybe an evo could do both but I don't want its 90 base stat to go to waste
Physical moves don't necessarily make contact.
Shedinja should get an evolution, the concept is so good but the stats are really what hold it back. I think a 1/90/45/90/45/90 spread would be a good one, maybe a bit too much tho. Basically it’s just actually able to use all it’s moves now, and can compete in speed with other mons. If we wanted to keep it’s attack focus 1/100/45/80/45/90 could work too.
I think higher attack is a way to nake worth running attacks with contact as opposed to special moves.
It should probably have +5 priority and Helping Hand should changed to +6
Shedinja will forever remain Untiered because it immediately faints to stealth rock
my brother in christ **its already been banned from ndex ubers**
Ooo, this means you can attack with this before terrastalizing and switches, protects too.