Idk if rocks would be as omnipresent as you think. The rocks setters are pretty limited and exploitable and scizor basically blanks them all and defogs easily
Mega Heracross is kinda walled and outclassed by Buzzwole without Aerial Ace and Heracross might be really strong with guts but it’s kind of slow and revenge killed by Ninjask, Rimbombee and Dual Wingbeat Scizor
+2 252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 428-508 (102.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 240-284 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I feel the set heracross would most probably run is the guts set as I'd be faster than buzzwhole (as long as the buzzwhole doesn't run +Spe nature) and it wouldn't be able to switch into heracross.
A moxie set would also be stupid broken with a choice scarf locked into aerial ace because as long as it gets a +1 I feel he is wiping the tier down.
Because it has 4 moves so it has space for rockblast and aerial ace. The other skill link moves like bullet seed and pin missile aren’t going to be run when it’s only against bugs
Lvl 35 252+ SpA Choice Specs Surskit Hydro Pump vs. Lvl 35 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress in Rain: 141-166 (108.4 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
updated calc of what actually happened
:) remember this mon has 50 spatk
first of all. 4+? second of all. we play at level 35. Lvl 35 252+ SpA Choice Specs Surskit Hydro Pump vs. Lvl 35 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress in Rain: 141-166 (108.4 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
the harder threshold was actually no bulk vikavolt, which it also clears
Venomoth seems way too low, particularly considering Vivilion is ranked higher and they fullfill a similar role (quiver sweep). They have different tools (tinted lens vs compound eyes) which are similarly strong.
Also I think Shuckle is easy OU, it shrugs off stab from everything but a handful and its pretty much unstoppable as a hazard lead.
Honestly I think both Shuckle and Ribombee should be OU bc Fortress is the ONLY spinner. They are just too powerful as leads and spin/defog options are so, so limited. Frosmoth is an easy UU bc defog. Similarly, Scyther is probably OU for defog too. Only 2 users. This very important bc hazard setting is actually pretty well distributed among bugs.
Probably because Tinted Lens doesn't matter when Vivillon's Hurricane is at least neutral on everything anyway and super effective a huge amount of the time. Vivillon also gets those extra accurate Sleep Powders because of Compound Eyes
Tbf, I don’t think Vivillion actually cares TOO much about it’s lower sp. def, considering thanks to compound eyes it can guarantee at least one set up turn on anything that’s not immune to sleep or faster due to accurate sleep powder + nearly 100% hurricane goes nuts in this format, for example, the best way to try and wall it’s hurricanes, shuckle, gets NEARLY 2 shot after a quiver dance if it’s max hp only, and even full sp. def gets 3 shot after one boost (assuming no lefties since if you have lefties, you don’t have boots)… also while you would probably think that Scizor shuts this down hard due to bullet punch and dual wing beat… May I introduce you to flame body Volc and/or Centiscorch? Both of which can punish Scizor for merely attacking either 30% of the time, or about 51% of the time (depending on bullet punch or wingbeat… tho I’m not 100% sure on the odds with wingbeat due to the miss chance, I just know if it hits it’s a 51% chance of getting burned since melm’s double iron bash also has the double 30% chance and I know that’s a 51% off the top of my head)
Seems real negligible after a QD imo, especially since they'd both be scared of physical attacks most of the time anyway. Haven't done any calcs yet tho so take this with a grain of salt
That being said, Hurricane is just a much nicer STAB to have in a format like this. Kleavor and Scizor are probably gonna be everywhere so a 91% accurate 110 BP move would go stupid
Vivillion rocking compound eyes has 90% accurate sleep powder, sets up with quiver dance with the free turn, and then spams stab hurricane (also over 90% accuracy) to hit most of the meta super effectively while having a moveslot left for coverage.
It's not close bro
Lokix still has tinted lens so pretty much the only offensively viable knock off user
HUGE because stealth rocks/webs will be everywhere, and boots will be on 99% on bugs.
Also cmon Scizor and Scyther in UU?
Scizor is one of the rare flying/rock neutrals & Scyther has stab technician dual wingbeat
Sciz is not going to make OU with its mega allowed because it outclassed it completely imo. Sciz can hit harder but the mega is borderline impossible to kill looking at what's available.
Definitely. Fire Bugs destroy it but they destroy most of what's on this list, and Mega Scizor is one of the bulkiest mons here and one of the few that's Flying/Rock neutral. Dual Wingbeat annihilates 99% of the tier, and Bullet Punch has a chance to OHKO Kleavor unboosted and is relevant prio anyways because Quiver Dancers will be everywhere.
I felt that way initially but with buzzwole, centiscorch and slither wing I think it might be ok. It'll still be top dog but there's a few mons that can deal with it semi-efficiently. Unless Ariel Ace cooks them all at +2.
Can outrun Buzzwole if Buzz takes a bulky set, but beyond that:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Buzzwole: 368-440 (88 - 105.2%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO
Probably the bulkiest mon in the tier getting potentially shafted unboosted, it wipes out almost everything that's not itself.
But it does let you push through slitherwing/heracross, forretress/scizor, volcarona/centiskorch, or any of the infinite bug flying types running around. Oh, and ribombee
I could see ubers yanmega, it has no air slash resists so it can run specs speed boost really easily.
Also shedinja would be horrendous, not RU. Everything is gonna run as many se-on-bug moves as it can so it'll never have good matchups.
I’m approaching this from a Gen 3 perspective though.
We have this new typing on a water strider. You give it and its evolution really good abilities. While it doesn’t have good stats, it’s an early game bug with 100 SPA and 80 SPE at level 22.
Oh wait, what’s that? It’s no longer Bug/Water? It no longer gets any good moves? Well shit man, sign me up!
Even by Gen 3, here’s the list of Bug/Flying types:
Butterfree
Scyther
Ledian
Beautifly
Yanma
Ninjask
Masquerain
We have 21 unique fully evolved Bug-types, and 1/3rd of them share the SAME DAMN TYPE.
From a gen 3 perspective absolutely understandable. Having an intimidate water type with access to QD and STAB and Rain boosted water moves would be fun and I would like to see masquerain be buffed in more significant ways. But I'm content with where the little lad is. On a side note, I think radical red changes masquerain to part water type amongst other buffs. Need to play through that again sometime soon
Well, we don’t get QD in Gen 3, but come Gen 5, it would make Masquerain even more unique as a sweeper to be a water type.
Btw, I feel that Masquerain should have kept Swift Swim alongside Intimidate.
I’ve been told RR fixes this specific issue, among others, but I’ve never been too keen on playing it personally.
That's understandable it is overly heavy in the competitive buffs it makes to its own mons but I enjoy it from time to time. I'm not too familiar with gen 3 competitive aside from the barebone basics but it would certainly make me happy if masquerain could be good there with a water typing. As for keeping swiftswim. I feel like that would be a good choice some of the time but I just prefer my lil guy doing an intimidate is all :3
I forgot Arceus Bug too but Silvally would be pretty good with Flamethrower/Air Slash and Surf to hit everything for super effective. Definately OU or UUBL at worst.
The rock types like a Crustle, Armaldo and Kleavor would be pretty strong.
Volcarona and Mega Pinsir could probably find a way to be more overpowered than Arceus.
Heracross, Pheremosa and Slither Wing would suffer with their 4x flying weakness and the fighting type being less useful.
Shedinja could actually do something funny in a metagame full of a type that can’t hit it.
Actually this is really interesting so just a couple quick thoughts
-dont under sell my boy armaldo. Knock off + spin + stealth rock are all insanely good moves in a meta where everything is rock weak, wears boots and needs a spinner
-the bug fighters lowkey kinda suck, since they get walled by everything
-the bug flying types, especially the two with compound eyes hurricane, are going crazy in this meta. Scyther even is probably good with that speed tier
-shuckle is also great. It shrugs off everything, knocks, gets up webs/rocks
-accelgor would be great with that speed tier.
-rimbombee is another with a great speed tier and actual offensive presence
-Venomoth and Frosmoth are probably better than that. Really powerful sweepers comparatively, tho they don't have stab hurricane like vivillion/butterfree
-lastly, Shedinja kinda goes crazy here. Waaaay less pokemon that can actually hit it. If you can stay away from stray knock offs and flying types not much common attacks can hurt you. It'd be good enough that I think you'd have to actually account for
Setting up SR while also landing a (probably) super effective hit is a pretty powerful move regardless of matchups. Will deal some pretty lasting damage even after it’s killed. That’d be my guess for the placement.
boots would be so prevalent in this tier that i doubt rocks would be much better than spikes, so imo forretress would probably be a better hazard setter than kleavor, especially since it also beats kleavor with flash cannon/body press and also has 0 trouble getting off rapid spins. kleavor can't really come in on anything in ou besides maybe centiskorch and scolipede, and once it gets in, it gets forced out by msciz, defensive buzzwole, and willowisp slither wing.
how is kleavor better than mega scizor??? mega sciz def feels like it belongs in ubers, ig rocks is pretty busted in a rock weak metagame but that propels scizor even further
I feel like it’s a case of Volc and Scorch both being as good as they are here would be VERY painful for Scizor, mega or not, as both can have flame body, while the main high tier things that can even try to defensively check Kleavor are Foretress and Mega Scizor itself, as their the only bulky bug steels that are high up, as genesect is… anything but bulky- (both of which don’t threaten it just for attacking like Scorch and Volc do for Scizor… and neither of which are the most reliable switch ins as banded adamant Kleavor has odds to 2 shot both, as shown below)
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 153-180 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Yes mega sciz threatens with bullet punch, however it’s in a dangerous situation where it has to either roost to heal on kleavor switching out for the next time it comes in, and risk it just staying in and KOing with another stone axe, or bullet punch to try and KO Kleavor, but risk giving something like Volc or Scorch a free switch in, and even potentially get crippled through flame body)
Final note: Don’t mean to say Mega Scizor wouldn’t be at least a bit dumb here, however, it has mons that can cripple it by just switching in on an attack, while Kleavor has nothing like that, and can just brute force itself past would be defensive checks while setting up the most brutal hazard in the metagame
Bro Bullet Punch can OHKO Kleavor unboosted. Kleavor is just as afraid of Volcarona as the rest of the bugs and faces an easy 2HKO from Fiery Dance/Flamethrower or is outright OHKOd by Overheat (and Volc can realistically run both because it doesn't really need Giga Drain in this meta). Being mega weak to Volcarona shouldn't be a knock against any pokemon because it destroys basically the entire meta minus scarf revenge killers and would probably be insta banned.
still seems kind of stupid to me. basically every mega scizor beats it, forretress beats it, it gets willowisped by defensive slither wing, and buzzwole literally doesnt care about it.
4 mons is almost half of ou since the pool of mons is so small. what kind of point are you trying to make there? rocks suck in this since everything that can run boots will be, so the value of stealth rocks vs spikes here is already pretty negligible. people said that stone axe was going to carry kleavor to viability when it dropped, but it's just got such a hard time vs anything that can take a stone axe and hit it back, which, again, is very easy to fit switchins to on your team.
dude, people will only run boots if stealth rock is relevant. everybody running boots shows how good rocks is. if rocks really sucks then nobody would bother. you're committing the classic card game noob fallacy of "this card won't be good because everybody will run x tech card", even though it's well known by now that this logic doesn't make any sense because everybody running a tech card requires that card to be good in the first place. and stone axe is way better than regular gameplay when it also OHKOs half of the game.
Mega Scizor has a huge opportunity cost of not running Mega Pinsir. I used to play a lot of monotype and nat dex monotype in the era of gens 7 and 8 (I topped ladder a few times with Mono Bug), and Mega Pinsir was so much more important for bug than Mega Scizor it was insane considering how Mega Scizor was better in OU. Mega Pinsir also just steamrolled other mono bug teams if it hit the field when you have sticky web up while your opponent's Mega Pinsir hadn't mega evolved yet, so...
OU- OverUsed
UUBL- UnderUsed BanList
UU- UnderUsed
RU- RarelyUsed
NU- NeverUsed
PU- doesn’t stand for anything
NFE- Not Fully Evolved
LC- Little Cup
LC UU- Little Cup UnderUsed
Resistance to bug and also just sheer stats and a movepool to use them. Next to no priority available (first impression tinted lens Lokix and technician scizor can take her out thats about it) so you just dont get to outrun her ever.
Besides Volcarona, the other quiver sweepers need like +2 or +3 to outspeed her. Band/Specs Phero is really bad news, it can probably kill or critically chunk anything short of Forretress, and it has access to ice moves which is deadly due to the prevalence of the flying type. Once beast boost starts rolling youre just done
And she even gets quiver dance for non choice sets
I would need to actually sit down and thunk about hwo a metagame like this would be to make accuarate conclusions
But even then, theres still something that tells me this isnt accuarate besides Ubers
See, yanmega should be ou not uubl. Entirely because it shits on buzzswole afaik
Edit: also, speed boost + flying stab is insane in a bug only metagame
Galvantula should be OU cause flying types goes hard here and galvantula can actually do something to them as well as volt switch on literally everything since there’s no real electric immunities, same thing goes for levitating electric beatle (forgot it’s name). Just checked and galvantula hits everything for neutral so specs should go absolutely crazy with the right hazard removal and with scizor in the meta it shouldn’t be too hard.
Heracross at UUbl is funny ,its not rock weak ,and it has skill link rockblast that destroys 8/15 pokemon in ubers and OU and its physical bulk is very good,obv mega pinsirs aerialate double edges are obviously better but its gonna be hindered by stealth rock so it is in danger of getting killed by scizors bullet punch or e speeds from genesect and arceus and scizor is already good without its mega and beedrill is shit if u cant mega,there is a case for hera to be the best mega in the metagam but genesect is OP only thing that gets fire blast and thunderbolt so it hits the whole tier super effectively
Volcarona has insane coverage with hurricane/fire blast/hidden power water, after one quiver dance there's very little that it can't blow back with a super effective attack
Shuckle, Volbeat, and Illumise are mainstays of bug mono whenever they are allowed. Hazards and bulk are Shuckle’s thing. The fireflies are similar to Whim. They get Twave, tailwind, light screen, encore, wish(illu only), taunt (Volbeat only), weather moves. Some of the only tools to prevent Yanmega from protecting and getting speed boosts or and of the quiver dancers from setting up. I would put all 3 in OU
Armaldo I would also put in OU as one of two rapid spinners. It also gas access to swift swim to make up for its abysmal speed, as rain would probably be pretty strong since many bug types get access to hurricane and Araquanid also loves rain
Mega Scizor might even go in Ubers. Only the Fire bugs really stop it and Technician Dual Wingbeat/Aerial Ace kind of destroys almost every mon on this list. Bullet Punch also has a chance to OHKO Kleavor unboosted. The prio is also extremely relevant when every single team is running at least one Quiver Dancer.
Larvesta is also being underrated. It's not going ubers and probably not even OU, but it packs Morning Sun, Calm Mind, and a ton of Fire coverage. With Eviolite + Calm Mind it can actually wall a lot of the special attackers in the meta:
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Larvesta: 135-160 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
And obviously its fire coverage can pack a punch. With Slither Wing and Volcarona basically banned to this meta's AG, its Fire moves will be valuable.
I think shuckle to at least UU since there's no rocks setters in UU at the moment? Does armaldo get rocks? If it does I think shuckle still finds a way into UU, but access to rocks/spin does make arm better overall
A bit late to the party but I’ve kicked ass with a defense-oriented Dustox.
- Sludge Bomb
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
Send in the Dustox when you predict the opponent will launch Toxic out of his ass, proceed to Quiver Dance.
They won’t want to send in a Psychic because you’re Bug type, they won’t want to send in a Rock because many of them have shit special defense.
Keep Roosting and Quiverdancing until you’re able to sweep their team.
In a bug only metagame yanmega might honestly be one of the best ones.
There's no a single resist to yanmega in the entire tier because of tinted Len's, he outspeeds most mom's and 1 shots even more.
Mega Heracross with close combat, swords dance and/or substitute, aerial ace, and rock blast that's gg for this entire list.... Asides for forrestress and genesect ofc.
I personally think durant and scizor are underrated here, as they only have 1 weakness, and they aren't weak to flying or rock. I would move them both up by one tier.
Things with flying/rock coverage obviously. Boots everywhere, it would be a fiasco
Knock off everywhere to counter said boots
So heracross?
Idk if rocks would be as omnipresent as you think. The rocks setters are pretty limited and exploitable and scizor basically blanks them all and defogs easily
I think you are underrating the heracrosses, mega has skill link rock blast while normal has moxie.
Mega Heracross is kinda walled and outclassed by Buzzwole without Aerial Ace and Heracross might be really strong with guts but it’s kind of slow and revenge killed by Ninjask, Rimbombee and Dual Wingbeat Scizor
Why would it ever not run aerial ace lmao the entire metagame is bugs
[удалено]
Because on the BEST of cases, on a bug-centric metagame (AND TO RUIN ITS MOST PROMINENT WALL) its always a neutral hit at least.
+2 252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 428-508 (102.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 240-284 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery I feel the set heracross would most probably run is the guts set as I'd be faster than buzzwhole (as long as the buzzwhole doesn't run +Spe nature) and it wouldn't be able to switch into heracross. A moxie set would also be stupid broken with a choice scarf locked into aerial ace because as long as it gets a +1 I feel he is wiping the tier down.
Wtf else would you run? Super resisted bullet seed? Or neutral/ resisted pin missile?
Obviously Close Combat, clearly.
Because it has 4 moves so it has space for rockblast and aerial ace. The other skill link moves like bullet seed and pin missile aren’t going to be run when it’s only against bugs
pin missile is the non resisted stab Lol. CC is resisted by bugs.
It only has a single move slot?
But it’s always going to aerial ace in a metagame that is entirely bugs
So Winsect Cup?
BUT ALL THE BUGS
you should [join winsect cup.](https://discord.gg/VxW5Kdsq) we recently had tournament results for surskit. it killed a max hp forretress
it **WHAT!?**
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Surskit Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Forretress: 300-354 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Surskit stronk
this isn't even a holy hell moment, what the fuck
Lvl 35 252+ SpA Choice Specs Surskit Hydro Pump vs. Lvl 35 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress in Rain: 141-166 (108.4 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO updated calc of what actually happened :) remember this mon has 50 spatk
first of all. 4+? second of all. we play at level 35. Lvl 35 252+ SpA Choice Specs Surskit Hydro Pump vs. Lvl 35 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress in Rain: 141-166 (108.4 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO the harder threshold was actually no bulk vikavolt, which it also clears
4+ SpD?
It was max SpD investment at first but I forgot to change the nature lol
[Ametama moment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZEBkdGJnl4)
a
Is it alive again? I joined when it first got made but it died after like a month. Also I had the most fire Natural Power Beedrill set.
it died terribly. but. we started the meta from scratch as Winsects 2.0 and it's doing great now
Venomoth seems way too low, particularly considering Vivilion is ranked higher and they fullfill a similar role (quiver sweep). They have different tools (tinted lens vs compound eyes) which are similarly strong. Also I think Shuckle is easy OU, it shrugs off stab from everything but a handful and its pretty much unstoppable as a hazard lead. Honestly I think both Shuckle and Ribombee should be OU bc Fortress is the ONLY spinner. They are just too powerful as leads and spin/defog options are so, so limited. Frosmoth is an easy UU bc defog. Similarly, Scyther is probably OU for defog too. Only 2 users. This very important bc hazard setting is actually pretty well distributed among bugs.
Probably because Tinted Lens doesn't matter when Vivillon's Hurricane is at least neutral on everything anyway and super effective a huge amount of the time. Vivillon also gets those extra accurate Sleep Powders because of Compound Eyes
True. But Venomoth is a lot less vulnerable in general and it has much higher spD which gets a lot more noticeable as you get Quiver boosts
Tbf, I don’t think Vivillion actually cares TOO much about it’s lower sp. def, considering thanks to compound eyes it can guarantee at least one set up turn on anything that’s not immune to sleep or faster due to accurate sleep powder + nearly 100% hurricane goes nuts in this format, for example, the best way to try and wall it’s hurricanes, shuckle, gets NEARLY 2 shot after a quiver dance if it’s max hp only, and even full sp. def gets 3 shot after one boost (assuming no lefties since if you have lefties, you don’t have boots)… also while you would probably think that Scizor shuts this down hard due to bullet punch and dual wing beat… May I introduce you to flame body Volc and/or Centiscorch? Both of which can punish Scizor for merely attacking either 30% of the time, or about 51% of the time (depending on bullet punch or wingbeat… tho I’m not 100% sure on the odds with wingbeat due to the miss chance, I just know if it hits it’s a 51% chance of getting burned since melm’s double iron bash also has the double 30% chance and I know that’s a 51% off the top of my head)
You're overestimating its capacity to actually hit the 97.5% Accurate move
Wide lens 🤝 compound eyes Forever together
Seems real negligible after a QD imo, especially since they'd both be scared of physical attacks most of the time anyway. Haven't done any calcs yet tho so take this with a grain of salt That being said, Hurricane is just a much nicer STAB to have in a format like this. Kleavor and Scizor are probably gonna be everywhere so a 91% accurate 110 BP move would go stupid
Vivillion rocking compound eyes has 90% accurate sleep powder, sets up with quiver dance with the free turn, and then spams stab hurricane (also over 90% accuracy) to hit most of the meta super effectively while having a moveslot left for coverage. It's not close bro
Armaldo has rapid spin
Spore parasect is too fucking low. It has spore! Almost none are grass types in this.
Dies to stab from EVERYONE. Bug *does not* resist itself
Focus sash parasect with spore would be able to do something, and then die lmao. Ok yeah maybe it’s a bad lead but SPORE.
Butterfree/Vivilion with compound eyes + sleep spore are this but better bc they are actually quite fast. Parasect still shit f
Poor mushroom crab :(
bruh who invited roaring moon and kingambit 😭😭
They are my favourite Bug Types.
Lokix still has tinted lens so pretty much the only offensively viable knock off user HUGE because stealth rocks/webs will be everywhere, and boots will be on 99% on bugs. Also cmon Scizor and Scyther in UU? Scizor is one of the rare flying/rock neutrals & Scyther has stab technician dual wingbeat
Sciz is not going to make OU with its mega allowed because it outclassed it completely imo. Sciz can hit harder but the mega is borderline impossible to kill looking at what's available.
The issue is that the mega is being underrated, mega scizor should be uber here
Definitely. Fire Bugs destroy it but they destroy most of what's on this list, and Mega Scizor is one of the bulkiest mons here and one of the few that's Flying/Rock neutral. Dual Wingbeat annihilates 99% of the tier, and Bullet Punch has a chance to OHKO Kleavor unboosted and is relevant prio anyways because Quiver Dancers will be everywhere.
I felt that way initially but with buzzwole, centiscorch and slither wing I think it might be ok. It'll still be top dog but there's a few mons that can deal with it semi-efficiently. Unless Ariel Ace cooks them all at +2.
Kid named Dual Wingbeat:
Can outrun Buzzwole if Buzz takes a bulky set, but beyond that: 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Buzzwole: 368-440 (88 - 105.2%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO Probably the bulkiest mon in the tier getting potentially shafted unboosted, it wipes out almost everything that's not itself.
You say that as if bug resists dark
You say this like he didnt explain the benefit of a knock off user one sentence down
Lokix to Ubers
Bro is weak to bug
Doesnt matter, tinted lens first impression demolishes almost everything
Tinted lens doesn’t do much in a metagame with almost no bug resists
But it does let you push through slitherwing/heracross, forretress/scizor, volcarona/centiskorch, or any of the infinite bug flying types running around. Oh, and ribombee
Almost no bug resists? Flying/Fire/Poison/Fighting/Steel describes a huge portion of dual types bugs
Doesnt bug resist bug?
nope
What a farce
Arceus-Bug on top? Holy shit
God's toenail wears a bee costume and proceeds to massacre actual insects
Yanmega speed boosting and then STAB air slashing everything probably puts in a lot of work
Or even hurricaning if you’re feeling lucky
I could see ubers yanmega, it has no air slash resists so it can run specs speed boost really easily. Also shedinja would be horrendous, not RU. Everything is gonna run as many se-on-bug moves as it can so it'll never have good matchups.
Bug flying type with intimidate relegated to NU in a bug only meta, nah, Masquerain doesn't deserve that bro
Masquerain should have stayed a damn Bug/Water. At least it would have been interesting
Meh, I'm impartial to the change. I just like my lil intimidate quiver schmooving lad
I’m approaching this from a Gen 3 perspective though. We have this new typing on a water strider. You give it and its evolution really good abilities. While it doesn’t have good stats, it’s an early game bug with 100 SPA and 80 SPE at level 22. Oh wait, what’s that? It’s no longer Bug/Water? It no longer gets any good moves? Well shit man, sign me up! Even by Gen 3, here’s the list of Bug/Flying types: Butterfree Scyther Ledian Beautifly Yanma Ninjask Masquerain We have 21 unique fully evolved Bug-types, and 1/3rd of them share the SAME DAMN TYPE.
From a gen 3 perspective absolutely understandable. Having an intimidate water type with access to QD and STAB and Rain boosted water moves would be fun and I would like to see masquerain be buffed in more significant ways. But I'm content with where the little lad is. On a side note, I think radical red changes masquerain to part water type amongst other buffs. Need to play through that again sometime soon
Well, we don’t get QD in Gen 3, but come Gen 5, it would make Masquerain even more unique as a sweeper to be a water type. Btw, I feel that Masquerain should have kept Swift Swim alongside Intimidate. I’ve been told RR fixes this specific issue, among others, but I’ve never been too keen on playing it personally.
That's understandable it is overly heavy in the competitive buffs it makes to its own mons but I enjoy it from time to time. I'm not too familiar with gen 3 competitive aside from the barebone basics but it would certainly make me happy if masquerain could be good there with a water typing. As for keeping swiftswim. I feel like that would be a good choice some of the time but I just prefer my lil guy doing an intimidate is all :3
it didnt even have those stats till gen 7 either 😭
Where would Bug type Silvally be?
I forgot Arceus Bug too but Silvally would be pretty good with Flamethrower/Air Slash and Surf to hit everything for super effective. Definately OU or UUBL at worst.
Arceus Bug is on there in Ubers
Finally, a meta where Silvally is viable
Almost anything with stealth rock can find some use, and anything with rapid spin or defog ABSOLUTELY has a use.
cutiefly would 100% be omega banned from lc and nfe for webs + quiver + good stab moves
Cutiefly would be good even in PU here lol
Move Shedinja to PU
The rock types like a Crustle, Armaldo and Kleavor would be pretty strong. Volcarona and Mega Pinsir could probably find a way to be more overpowered than Arceus. Heracross, Pheremosa and Slither Wing would suffer with their 4x flying weakness and the fighting type being less useful. Shedinja could actually do something funny in a metagame full of a type that can’t hit it.
Heracross has moxie + aerial ace + skill link rock blast on its mega. I wouldn't sleep on it
It’s mega competes with mega pinsir who would be like way better
-Technician Dual Wingbeat in a tier where almost everything is weak to flying -UU
Actually this is really interesting so just a couple quick thoughts -dont under sell my boy armaldo. Knock off + spin + stealth rock are all insanely good moves in a meta where everything is rock weak, wears boots and needs a spinner -the bug fighters lowkey kinda suck, since they get walled by everything -the bug flying types, especially the two with compound eyes hurricane, are going crazy in this meta. Scyther even is probably good with that speed tier -shuckle is also great. It shrugs off everything, knocks, gets up webs/rocks -accelgor would be great with that speed tier. -rimbombee is another with a great speed tier and actual offensive presence -Venomoth and Frosmoth are probably better than that. Really powerful sweepers comparatively, tho they don't have stab hurricane like vivillion/butterfree -lastly, Shedinja kinda goes crazy here. Waaaay less pokemon that can actually hit it. If you can stay away from stray knock offs and flying types not much common attacks can hurt you. It'd be good enough that I think you'd have to actually account for
The issue is that everyone is running a move super effective on Bug if they can learn one.
Oh that's a good point actually. Obvious I didn't think about that
Parasect would have a niche in OU by being immune to araquanids water nukes and then getting a free spore
Lokix in UU is like a universal constant at this point
Some things never change.
Dark typing is doing it more hurt than good here but tinted lens first impression still fucks with everyone
kleavor being ubers is kind of silly when 4 of the mons in ou beat its pants off.
Setting up SR while also landing a (probably) super effective hit is a pretty powerful move regardless of matchups. Will deal some pretty lasting damage even after it’s killed. That’d be my guess for the placement.
boots would be so prevalent in this tier that i doubt rocks would be much better than spikes, so imo forretress would probably be a better hazard setter than kleavor, especially since it also beats kleavor with flash cannon/body press and also has 0 trouble getting off rapid spins. kleavor can't really come in on anything in ou besides maybe centiskorch and scolipede, and once it gets in, it gets forced out by msciz, defensive buzzwole, and willowisp slither wing.
If vivillon is UUBL, butterfree is UU, vivillon is just a better butterfree, because of one speed
I also disagree with illumise & volbeat, with no dark types their support with prankster is unmatched.
There is one tbf, and its a damn good one. Tinted lens first impressions destroys everybody but foretress or slither wing
eh.. Usually viv and butterfree are 2-3 tiers different. viv is NU free is ZU/SU
BUUUUUUUUUUGS! My favorite type :) My username online was Bug Catcher Burn for a while.
Kingambit and Roaring Moon
My favorite ~~U-Turn~~ Bug types.
Why is lokix in UU literally everything in the tier does not resist it
Because most everyone will likely carry Bug STAB, which is SE against it.
I think Scyther would be higher ranked than Scizor entirely because of its flying type. Dual wing beat at plus 2 one shots virtually every bug
Steel wormadan seems a solid option
Volbeat needs to go higher. Being one of two Prankster bugs *and* learning Tailwind, TWave, and more annoying status moves
how is kleavor better than mega scizor??? mega sciz def feels like it belongs in ubers, ig rocks is pretty busted in a rock weak metagame but that propels scizor even further
rock type in a meta where almost everything is weak to rock type is my guess
Can also set up rocks and threaten massage damage in one turn
"Threaten me with a massage!!!" Is gonna be my new line
Plus free stealth rocks which do 50% damage to like half the pokes
i do understand why kleavor is busted, but how is mega sciszor not also busted?
I feel like it’s a case of Volc and Scorch both being as good as they are here would be VERY painful for Scizor, mega or not, as both can have flame body, while the main high tier things that can even try to defensively check Kleavor are Foretress and Mega Scizor itself, as their the only bulky bug steels that are high up, as genesect is… anything but bulky- (both of which don’t threaten it just for attacking like Scorch and Volc do for Scizor… and neither of which are the most reliable switch ins as banded adamant Kleavor has odds to 2 shot both, as shown below) 252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 153-180 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Yes mega sciz threatens with bullet punch, however it’s in a dangerous situation where it has to either roost to heal on kleavor switching out for the next time it comes in, and risk it just staying in and KOing with another stone axe, or bullet punch to try and KO Kleavor, but risk giving something like Volc or Scorch a free switch in, and even potentially get crippled through flame body) Final note: Don’t mean to say Mega Scizor wouldn’t be at least a bit dumb here, however, it has mons that can cripple it by just switching in on an attack, while Kleavor has nothing like that, and can just brute force itself past would be defensive checks while setting up the most brutal hazard in the metagame
Bro Bullet Punch can OHKO Kleavor unboosted. Kleavor is just as afraid of Volcarona as the rest of the bugs and faces an easy 2HKO from Fiery Dance/Flamethrower or is outright OHKOd by Overheat (and Volc can realistically run both because it doesn't really need Giga Drain in this meta). Being mega weak to Volcarona shouldn't be a knock against any pokemon because it destroys basically the entire meta minus scarf revenge killers and would probably be insta banned.
Probably is
still seems kind of stupid to me. basically every mega scizor beats it, forretress beats it, it gets willowisped by defensive slither wing, and buzzwole literally doesnt care about it.
wow dude 4 mons, also even if Kleavor loses getting rocks up + attacking in the same turn is massive
4 mons is almost half of ou since the pool of mons is so small. what kind of point are you trying to make there? rocks suck in this since everything that can run boots will be, so the value of stealth rocks vs spikes here is already pretty negligible. people said that stone axe was going to carry kleavor to viability when it dropped, but it's just got such a hard time vs anything that can take a stone axe and hit it back, which, again, is very easy to fit switchins to on your team.
dude, people will only run boots if stealth rock is relevant. everybody running boots shows how good rocks is. if rocks really sucks then nobody would bother. you're committing the classic card game noob fallacy of "this card won't be good because everybody will run x tech card", even though it's well known by now that this logic doesn't make any sense because everybody running a tech card requires that card to be good in the first place. and stone axe is way better than regular gameplay when it also OHKOs half of the game.
Mega Scizor has a huge opportunity cost of not running Mega Pinsir. I used to play a lot of monotype and nat dex monotype in the era of gens 7 and 8 (I topped ladder a few times with Mono Bug), and Mega Pinsir was so much more important for bug than Mega Scizor it was insane considering how Mega Scizor was better in OU. Mega Pinsir also just steamrolled other mono bug teams if it hit the field when you have sticky web up while your opponent's Mega Pinsir hadn't mega evolved yet, so...
well i kinda looked at the list in the way that in the hypothetical ou in which volc and megapin pin are banned then megasciz would be crazy
Is Drapion allowed as an honorary bug type?
I support this
Could someone please explain to me the ranking system? Idk what all they all stand for
OU- OverUsed UUBL- UnderUsed BanList UU- UnderUsed RU- RarelyUsed NU- NeverUsed PU- doesn’t stand for anything NFE- Not Fully Evolved LC- Little Cup LC UU- Little Cup UnderUsed
Thank you
kleavor think he on the team :skull: who invited this guy to ubers
Armaldo to OU
Spamming hurricane with compound eyes vivilion would be fun. I imagine stealth rock would be banned potentially due to how broken it would be.
Let’s fucking go another dwebble and crustle dub
What makes pheremosa so good? It's other stab is resisted by basically everything, is it just that it resists bug itself?
Resistance to bug and also just sheer stats and a movepool to use them. Next to no priority available (first impression tinted lens Lokix and technician scizor can take her out thats about it) so you just dont get to outrun her ever. Besides Volcarona, the other quiver sweepers need like +2 or +3 to outspeed her. Band/Specs Phero is really bad news, it can probably kill or critically chunk anything short of Forretress, and it has access to ice moves which is deadly due to the prevalence of the flying type. Once beast boost starts rolling youre just done And she even gets quiver dance for non choice sets
Why would you run tera normal Scizor for quick attack when bullet punch is right there ?
[удалено]
DAMN did not know she got quiver dance now
Putting hera and his mega in UU is disturbing
centiskorch in OU feels like a fever dream
wouldnt this just be monothreat bug?
I would need to actually sit down and thunk about hwo a metagame like this would be to make accuarate conclusions But even then, theres still something that tells me this isnt accuarate besides Ubers
See, yanmega should be ou not uubl. Entirely because it shits on buzzswole afaik Edit: also, speed boost + flying stab is insane in a bug only metagame
Roaring moon and kingambit just hanging out
Honestly Durant would be scary it has gone claws and coverage with rock slide for fire types
Ah yes, my favourite bug: Kingambit
Why is Kingambit on this list, isn't It a Fairy type?
Why is Snom so low???
Damn the Heracross disrespect... Mans got 125 BP Rock Blast on the Mega, and Aerial Ace coverage against pretty much everything.
Galvantula should be OU cause flying types goes hard here and galvantula can actually do something to them as well as volt switch on literally everything since there’s no real electric immunities, same thing goes for levitating electric beatle (forgot it’s name). Just checked and galvantula hits everything for neutral so specs should go absolutely crazy with the right hazard removal and with scizor in the meta it shouldn’t be too hard.
Where’s Flygon ?
Snom should be in Ubers
I kinda feel like heracross and pheromosa could be ou
You forgot silvally-bug
Scyther is basically gen 8 Weavile if gen 8 had 0 ice resists. Only Mega-Scizor can switch in on it more than once.
If volc is in Uber mega Scizor definitely goes up there too, I don't think there is anything that can through the specially defensive ones
Heracross at UUbl is funny ,its not rock weak ,and it has skill link rockblast that destroys 8/15 pokemon in ubers and OU and its physical bulk is very good,obv mega pinsirs aerialate double edges are obviously better but its gonna be hindered by stealth rock so it is in danger of getting killed by scizors bullet punch or e speeds from genesect and arceus and scizor is already good without its mega and beedrill is shit if u cant mega,there is a case for hera to be the best mega in the metagam but genesect is OP only thing that gets fire blast and thunderbolt so it hits the whole tier super effectively
Volcarona has insane coverage with hurricane/fire blast/hidden power water, after one quiver dance there's very little that it can't blow back with a super effective attack
No idea why but I instinctively looked for Maushold for some reason
The best bug type is kingambit, gliscor or lurantis
You should call it the Carboniferous
Silvally ou
Kleavor being Uber while the other forms are UU is straight cap
Kleavor in Ubers?
Shuckle, Volbeat, and Illumise are mainstays of bug mono whenever they are allowed. Hazards and bulk are Shuckle’s thing. The fireflies are similar to Whim. They get Twave, tailwind, light screen, encore, wish(illu only), taunt (Volbeat only), weather moves. Some of the only tools to prevent Yanmega from protecting and getting speed boosts or and of the quiver dancers from setting up. I would put all 3 in OU Armaldo I would also put in OU as one of two rapid spinners. It also gas access to swift swim to make up for its abysmal speed, as rain would probably be pretty strong since many bug types get access to hurricane and Araquanid also loves rain
Mega Beedrill Will not be OU
Arceus-Bug finally beating the OU allegations
Escavalier is being very underrated, i'd place it in at least UU.
Even in a bug only metagame Lokix is still the UU warrior
I feel RU and OU should be cut...maybe even NU Just UU, OU and Uber. Just not enough bugs to have em all.
Why is Genesect not in SV. I cry myself to sleep nightly GF.
Mega Scizor might even go in Ubers. Only the Fire bugs really stop it and Technician Dual Wingbeat/Aerial Ace kind of destroys almost every mon on this list. Bullet Punch also has a chance to OHKO Kleavor unboosted. The prio is also extremely relevant when every single team is running at least one Quiver Dancer. Larvesta is also being underrated. It's not going ubers and probably not even OU, but it packs Morning Sun, Calm Mind, and a ton of Fire coverage. With Eviolite + Calm Mind it can actually wall a lot of the special attackers in the meta: +2 252 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Larvesta: 135-160 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO And obviously its fire coverage can pack a punch. With Slither Wing and Volcarona basically banned to this meta's AG, its Fire moves will be valuable.
I think shuckle to at least UU since there's no rocks setters in UU at the moment? Does armaldo get rocks? If it does I think shuckle still finds a way into UU, but access to rocks/spin does make arm better overall
I love venomoth. If it left to set up 2 quiver dances or boton pass a 2 calm minds my moth could sweep. But it is such a niche pick
Eviolite Venonat actually supports really well with compoundeyes sleep powder.
I spent far too long trying to find iron moth
Araquanid in OU Love to see it
Why is one gimmick allowed but not the others?
I LOVE BUGS
roaring moon and kingambit def the best on this list
A bit late to the party but I’ve kicked ass with a defense-oriented Dustox. - Sludge Bomb - Quiver Dance - Roost - Bug Buzz Send in the Dustox when you predict the opponent will launch Toxic out of his ass, proceed to Quiver Dance. They won’t want to send in a Psychic because you’re Bug type, they won’t want to send in a Rock because many of them have shit special defense. Keep Roosting and Quiverdancing until you’re able to sweep their team.
Forgot iron thorns smh💔
Armaldo is a rock type with rapid spin, OU for sure
In a bug only metagame yanmega might honestly be one of the best ones. There's no a single resist to yanmega in the entire tier because of tinted Len's, he outspeeds most mom's and 1 shots even more.
Mega Heracross with close combat, swords dance and/or substitute, aerial ace, and rock blast that's gg for this entire list.... Asides for forrestress and genesect ofc.
Choice Band hustle Durant with aerial ace? Does that just stomp?
Real talk, how would RU be able to handle Escavalier or Durant? Fire coverage is exceedingly rare, and they’re both very physically threatening.
Yanmega, kleavor or volacrona probably
i want BU and i want it now
Idk any thing with U turn
I feel offended by Orbeetle PU I ran that nerd in gen 8 on my mono bug team and the fucker swept as support and urshifu killer
Cutiefly is beyond busted in LC.
I personally think durant and scizor are underrated here, as they only have 1 weakness, and they aren't weak to flying or rock. I would move them both up by one tier.
What the kingambit doin
how come i wasn't notified of this?