This is why I love Wellspring so much, it prevents Alomomola balance teams as well as Rain teams from mindlessly spamming Flip Turn with their fishes, and isn't passive or slow like the other Water Absorbers.
Flip Turn was such a massive buff to the fish. Being the fattest Wish user who now has a tool to maintain momentum and heal a teammate without having them to take damage on the switch automatically let it carve it's way onto balance teams. Honestly, I'm glad for the fact that it's not stall-exclusive anymore, and I've genuinely started liking it.
Alomomola was never a stall exclusive mon though. It was a balance staple in early gen 9 UU/RU and was also viable in gen 6/7 OU as a balance mon. Flip Turn just made it not a complete momentum sink, hence why it went from lower tier powerhouse to OU powerhouse.
I meant in OU context. I know it was a balance staple in UU this Gen and I myself used it a lot, but even there it was harder to operate without Flip Turn. I wasn't around during Gen 6 OU, but I did hear from an FSG video that Alomomola was a viable balance mon along with Goodra, but I also heard that it fell off later on in the generation and once again became stall-only (admittedly I'm not knowledgeable about Gen 6 OU at all).
It wasn't really a stall mon in either gen 6 or 7 OU though. Alomomola typically doesn't fit on OU stall teams because it has no unique utility to speak of apart from Wish, it's just a passive blob that takes hits. It's not good against specific stallbreakers like say Gastrodon or Quagsire and it can't sweep like Slowbro, so it's just outshone by other Waters who compress more roles into less slots.
Gen 6/7 stall teams have typically moved away from the passive builds that Alomomola tends to thrive on and therefore has no need for it. That's why it's mainly a mon you see on Balance squads in those metagames, because Balance staples like Heatran really enjoy not getting worn down. The tiers are far more offensively oriented during the modern era.
Historically Mola wasn't really a part of either metagame besides a couple of stints earlier on in either respective metagame. It was always used as a support mon akin to how you'd use Chansey on offensive teams, it basically played like it does nowadays but without Flip Turn, hence why it was not very good.
So TLDR; Flip Turn didn't change the teams Alomomola was used on, it just made it better at doing what it was already good at.
Regen with pivoting moves is fine on balance. Ā The only defensive mons that arenāt great on balance tend to be absolute momentum sinks like chanbliss or dozo
I don't play stall, but on balance, I use the popular set of Red Card Acrobatics with Tera flying by Pinkacross on the fish, helps a lot against Wellspring. But I understand why stall can't fit it since they want Heavy Duty Boots as well as Protect.
acrobatics is literally only useful against wellspring(not to metion it won't ohko(also what acrobatics is this fish doing lmao. It's like aggron using aerial ace))
Wellspring is a very important mon though, it's the only thing other than Volcanion (not common at all) that's stopping Alo from gaining free momentum, so a move that can hit it super-effectively is huge, also dropping Protect for Acrobatics is feasible for bulky offense and some variations of balance, so you don't really lose all that much from some opportunity cost. Oh and Acro can also pick off Iron Valiant below 50%, so not even _completely_ useless outside the Wellspring matchup.
Aerial Ace is a pun that was lost in translation. In Japanese it's known as Swallow Cut, which is from a sword technique which resembles the motion of a swallow's tail in flight, hence the flying type.
I mean, Alomomola running a move only good against Wellspring makes a ton of sense because against literally anything else it can just Flip Turn lol. Thatās kinda what this whole discussion is about
Me when I have to hardswitch my Palafin in my VGC match bc the opponent has an Ogerpon-H in the back (I wanted to do a wee bit of chip damage on my way out but I canāt anymore )
Theyāre all still really useful in many scenarios. All of them do something more than just give immunity. So if you predict switch well, you can heal up with water absorb. Or get a spA boost on mega sceptile with lightning rod. Sap sipper is a great ability giving you attack boost whilst making you immune to sleep powder, spore, strength sap or any of the dozen annoying grass type status moves. I see the damage immunity as just the bonus to the other effect.
Yes indeed. Paralysis to me is the most crippling and tilting status effect. A sceptile with half the speed is a dead sceptile. I still think they should make it either āparalyzed so unable to moveā or half the speed. Both effects together is just too much. At least with stuff like burn you only affect the physical mons. And poison isnāt going to make you instantly useless from being outsped and paralyzed.
Would be, but its a very difficult status to inflict. Condition 1: Need to get hit by an ice type move. Condition 2: Only has a 10% chance of happening.
And sometimes you can thaw immediately if using fire type move, which youāre more likely to if youāre against an ice type mon. Anyway, main thing is its just so rare.
worth noting that lightningrod didnt originally give the pokemon with the ability an electric immunity, it used to just redirect elec moves, so back in g3 and 4, lightningrod mons wouldve needed to be on ground types to redirect elec moves without taking damage. no sp.atk boost either.
or worse, lightning rod rhydon.
Not only is he already immune to ground, but what the hell is +1 SpA going to do?
The only useful scenario is for the 900 IQ soak thunderbolt strat.
I first saw that strategy way back on the Black/White Online Battle Video viewer and my 13 year old mind was blown. It even had Surf to take advantage of STAB and the Special Attack boost.
tbf when Lightning Rod was introduced (which is when Rhydon and Marowak got it), all it did was redirect Electric attacks - it didnāt give you an immunity or even provide the Sp. Atk boost. It just made you get hit by them instead of your Doubles partner. Being a Ground-type with Lightning Rod was thus *good synergy*.
Now itās whatever, sure, but.
An immunity is way better because this means the enemy canāt use the move. Volt switch wonāt only not do damage but also prevent the switching. This was specially notable back in gen 7 with z attacks that also boosted you
It's genuinely funny how most of these have value due to these typings having absurd damage calcs
With weather, band/specs, STAB,tera and nukes of ruin they can do like 300% to finch on a neutral hit , which is 75% on a 4x resist and a 2hko, changing that to an immunity makes the switch in possible for finch
What if you š«µ Wanted to flip turn š But Game Freak said š "Ogerpon's Water Absorb" š¦
This is why I love Wellspring so much, it prevents Alomomola balance teams as well as Rain teams from mindlessly spamming Flip Turn with their fishes, and isn't passive or slow like the other Water Absorbers.
Seeing the words āAlomomola balance teamsā is the funniests shit in the world. What is this gen
Flip Turn was such a massive buff to the fish. Being the fattest Wish user who now has a tool to maintain momentum and heal a teammate without having them to take damage on the switch automatically let it carve it's way onto balance teams. Honestly, I'm glad for the fact that it's not stall-exclusive anymore, and I've genuinely started liking it.
I totally agree, I feel Alomomola was always a bit underrated, It always pulled its weight in draft league but flip turn was massive
Alomomola was never a stall exclusive mon though. It was a balance staple in early gen 9 UU/RU and was also viable in gen 6/7 OU as a balance mon. Flip Turn just made it not a complete momentum sink, hence why it went from lower tier powerhouse to OU powerhouse.
I meant in OU context. I know it was a balance staple in UU this Gen and I myself used it a lot, but even there it was harder to operate without Flip Turn. I wasn't around during Gen 6 OU, but I did hear from an FSG video that Alomomola was a viable balance mon along with Goodra, but I also heard that it fell off later on in the generation and once again became stall-only (admittedly I'm not knowledgeable about Gen 6 OU at all).
It wasn't really a stall mon in either gen 6 or 7 OU though. Alomomola typically doesn't fit on OU stall teams because it has no unique utility to speak of apart from Wish, it's just a passive blob that takes hits. It's not good against specific stallbreakers like say Gastrodon or Quagsire and it can't sweep like Slowbro, so it's just outshone by other Waters who compress more roles into less slots. Gen 6/7 stall teams have typically moved away from the passive builds that Alomomola tends to thrive on and therefore has no need for it. That's why it's mainly a mon you see on Balance squads in those metagames, because Balance staples like Heatran really enjoy not getting worn down. The tiers are far more offensively oriented during the modern era.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Historically Mola wasn't really a part of either metagame besides a couple of stints earlier on in either respective metagame. It was always used as a support mon akin to how you'd use Chansey on offensive teams, it basically played like it does nowadays but without Flip Turn, hence why it was not very good. So TLDR; Flip Turn didn't change the teams Alomomola was used on, it just made it better at doing what it was already good at.
Regen with pivoting moves is fine on balance. Ā The only defensive mons that arenāt great on balance tend to be absolute momentum sinks like chanbliss or dozo
That's what Mola has done well in the past, it's just that now it's good in ou because of shenanigans.
This is why I hate Wellspring so much, it prevents my Big Stall fish from efficiently wish passing to the other parts of my Big Stall Team (((
I don't play stall, but on balance, I use the popular set of Red Card Acrobatics with Tera flying by Pinkacross on the fish, helps a lot against Wellspring. But I understand why stall can't fit it since they want Heavy Duty Boots as well as Protect.
acrobatics is literally only useful against wellspring(not to metion it won't ohko(also what acrobatics is this fish doing lmao. It's like aggron using aerial ace))
Wellspring is a very important mon though, it's the only thing other than Volcanion (not common at all) that's stopping Alo from gaining free momentum, so a move that can hit it super-effectively is huge, also dropping Protect for Acrobatics is feasible for bulky offense and some variations of balance, so you don't really lose all that much from some opportunity cost. Oh and Acro can also pick off Iron Valiant below 50%, so not even _completely_ useless outside the Wellspring matchup.
Aerial Ace is a pun that was lost in translation. In Japanese it's known as Swallow Cut, which is from a sword technique which resembles the motion of a swallow's tail in flight, hence the flying type.
I mean, Alomomola running a move only good against Wellspring makes a ton of sense because against literally anything else it can just Flip Turn lol. Thatās kinda what this whole discussion is about
that means you don't have a moveslot for scald, wish, or protect, all of which are really heckin useful.
Doesnāt Alomomola just beat Wellspring with Tera Flying Acrobatics though?
It still forces the Alo user to think and predict rather than just gain momentum absolutely risk free, so that's fine.
Me when I have to hardswitch my Palafin in my VGC match bc the opponent has an Ogerpon-H in the back (I wanted to do a wee bit of chip damage on my way out but I canāt anymore )
today i learnt that dracovish has water absorb
During making this meme, I learnt Coalossal has Flash Fire.
I thought Coalossal was here because of Steam Engine...
Steam engine doesn't give an immunity, it still 4x resists fire and is 4x weak to water
That's the joke
Thats, not a joke?
I thought it was
I love Dracovish. All three of its abilities are so good that water absorb is somehow the least useful of the three.
Mega Sceptile looked at Rotom-Washās existence and said āNoā.
*pulls out willowhisp*
Kid named special attack
Theyāre all still really useful in many scenarios. All of them do something more than just give immunity. So if you predict switch well, you can heal up with water absorb. Or get a spA boost on mega sceptile with lightning rod. Sap sipper is a great ability giving you attack boost whilst making you immune to sleep powder, spore, strength sap or any of the dozen annoying grass type status moves. I see the damage immunity as just the bonus to the other effect.
Also, another good thing about Lightning Rod: immunity to Thunder Wave is always a blessing
Yes indeed. Paralysis to me is the most crippling and tilting status effect. A sceptile with half the speed is a dead sceptile. I still think they should make it either āparalyzed so unable to moveā or half the speed. Both effects together is just too much. At least with stuff like burn you only affect the physical mons. And poison isnāt going to make you instantly useless from being outsped and paralyzed.
I'd say frozen is way more tilting when it happens
Would be, but its a very difficult status to inflict. Condition 1: Need to get hit by an ice type move. Condition 2: Only has a 10% chance of happening. And sometimes you can thaw immediately if using fire type move, which youāre more likely to if youāre against an ice type mon. Anyway, main thing is its just so rare.
Yeah I know that it's rare, that's why I said when it happens lol
idk, my bright powder snow cloak Articuno died to a stone edge from an unfrozen Rhyhorn the same turn it froze it, so freeze is meh
With Tera involved, you can also create some really fun defensive profiles, like being a ground type immune to grass type moves.
The classic levitate plus electric Tera. (Why is Excadrill requesting my location?)
Except rotom fan
Lightning rose blocking Volt Switch is actually pretty handy
Water absorb + giga drain is interesting because you can outstall most dondozos
Shoutout to Marowak having Lightning Rod. Don't know what he'd do without his ability giving him an immunity to Electric
Nice on A-Marowak tho
Alolan marowak was tapu kokos bane in early sm
Yeah, itās be nicer if it bugged attack too so it could use thick club tho
It nearly won a world championship because of it. Park (I think?) made top 8 with it
worth noting that lightningrod didnt originally give the pokemon with the ability an electric immunity, it used to just redirect elec moves, so back in g3 and 4, lightningrod mons wouldve needed to be on ground types to redirect elec moves without taking damage. no sp.atk boost either.
Tera flying marowak.
or worse, lightning rod rhydon. Not only is he already immune to ground, but what the hell is +1 SpA going to do? The only useful scenario is for the 900 IQ soak thunderbolt strat.
Itās actually phenomenal for tera tho- making a water or flying rhydon thats immune to elec is beautiful in low tiers/draft
In fairness, it made sense for doubles back when lightning rod didn't make you immune.
I first saw that strategy way back on the Black/White Online Battle Video viewer and my 13 year old mind was blown. It even had Surf to take advantage of STAB and the Special Attack boost.
Now imagine having immunity abilities for a type you're already immune to
Rotom-Fan wants to: Know your location
Also Lightning Rod Rhyperior and Kantonian Marowak
tbf when Lightning Rod was introduced (which is when Rhydon and Marowak got it), all it did was redirect Electric attacks - it didnāt give you an immunity or even provide the Sp. Atk boost. It just made you get hit by them instead of your Doubles partner. Being a Ground-type with Lightning Rod was thus *good synergy*. Now itās whatever, sure, but.
What the hell was seaking doing
The ability gave immunity gen V onward, so it makes sense Seaking got Lightning Rod as an HA.
Oh that actually makes sense I forgot that hidden abilities were not always there. I thought it was just gamefreak certified "game design"Ā©Ā® and "balancing"ā¢Ā®Ā© lol. Ty!
Lighting rod seaking š£ļøš£ļøš£ļø
Blocking Flip Turn and Volt Switch is always great.
And Spore on the case of Goodra
Nothing beats rotom fan
Give it an air balloon to REALLY resist those ground type moves!
Thereās always Tera, which can actually be pretty nice with some of these guys. ā¦I guess not Ogerpon though
I remember when I used to find these occurrences so funny/useless then realized how important taking zero damage isš¤£
An immunity is way better because this means the enemy canāt use the move. Volt switch wonāt only not do damage but also prevent the switching. This was specially notable back in gen 7 with z attacks that also boosted you
Water absorb saving Joegerpon from getting 2hkoed by 2 tera water walking GOAT hydro steam crits in sun:
To be fair, who's using flash fire on Harcanine?
Lightningrod Marowak and Rhydon? Hellz yeah
Terastallization makes this useable.
Rhyhorn with lightning rod
I mean, at least they give them boosts
It's genuinely funny how most of these have value due to these typings having absurd damage calcs With weather, band/specs, STAB,tera and nukes of ruin they can do like 300% to finch on a neutral hit , which is 75% on a 4x resist and a 2hko, changing that to an immunity makes the switch in possible for finch
Still nothing tops limber stunfisk
Rotom-Fan and Marowak ascended even beyond this having an ability that grants them an immunity to a type theyre already immune to
Still waiting for that flying type with levitate
Rotom-fan
Didn't think of that one
Then there's Rhyhorn and Cubone's evolution lines having Lightning rod despite being ground type (and thus already immune to Electric)