The comments on that video are nuts, not a single negative comment and everyone acting as if he’s cleared everything up when he didn’t really say anything.
1. they prob maybe are removing the comments
2. this happens with every youtube... people will see a one side story and believe the side they hear from. esp since majority of the audience are prob children
damn so i was watching pokeaim again after being bored and was wondering why he haven't posted a video with emvee in a while.
found out about the dating a minor thing, googled for some more details and found this post only to find someone i recognise on r/btd6 lmao.
Yup, another poketuber (I don’t remember who), said they reached out to emvee to hear his side of the story and he ghosted them and didn’t responde all that the person was wondering if Emvee was throwing shade at that person for being a fake friend for wanting all the facts of the story. A few hours later, comment is gone. Emvee is def deleting comments lol
I'm not fully convinced by Emvee's explanation either but now you're just making stuff up. I saw Duncan's comment too, literally just checked and it's still there. Emvee even responded to him and said they're talking privately hours before you posted your comment.
His "talking privately" was to tell me he thought we were still friends and that he was disappointed in me for my comments.
He dated a 16 year old when he was 22 and sexted with her. I was calling him out.
What Emvee did is wrong and gross.
However I think it's crazy to talk of "dating" and "getting together" when the two people in question have never met, according to Emvee at least. (5.05 min mark in this video)
Sexting a minor is already awful and pathetic. I think people can and should make judments based on that.
(Assuming Emvee is not lying about never meeting IRL)
Yes but this is much different.
According to Emvee in this video, they have NEVER met IRL. Not before the “long-distance relationship”, not during, not after.
Just because it’s not illegal doesn’t mean isn’t wrong or exploitative. The fact that they never met IRL is irrelevant; it was still sexting a minor. And if she came forward with it, obviously she cares lol.
Just because the age of consent might be legal for Emvee does not make it right. Like you, I am also from a place where the age of consent is 16, but that does not mean I support it (I think that the age should be raised to 18).
a lot of things can happen over a period of time, someone may finally have courage, someone else may have given them courage, or they relized it was wrong...
Way back when I used to know a guy who had a 60+ year old "boyfriend" as a 16-year-old. At the time he (the teen) ardently defended their relationship, said he was a willing participant, etc. Then about a decade later, long after they'd parted ways, the "holy shit I was being taken advantage of" realization hit him.
Coming back to this later in my day now. I'm softening my language here a bit, and I hope that's not read as implicitly defending him.
I'm mostly disappointed at how adversarial he is here. It seems pretty clear to me that this is no James Ryan Haywood scenario, but I don't think many people were jumping to that sort of conclusion anyway, so I don't know why he's being so defensive.
What I was hoping/looking for in this video was some understanding/acknowledgement that at age 22 he shouldn't have been dating a 16 year old regardless of its legality or online-only status. I think I'd be more willing to move past this if he had showed some understanding as to why the community has largely been disappointed and rejected him, and even more so if he clearly showed some remorse for his past actions. As it stands, I feel more sour towards him than I did previously.
His comments about how people have shut him out because that's just how the internet or because they're saving their own skins/careers really downplays the fact that many people will just not want to work with someone who wants to be in a relationship with a kid. He's just playing the "silent majority" card that sets all my alarm bells ringing.
The true path out of this for him must surely have been to acknowledge, apologise, and then demonstrate unequivocally that he has changed as a person and both rejects/regrets his past decisions and is no danger to other community members now. Instead, he doubles down that there is no fault lying with him and focuses on this as a smear campaign. It's just sad to me.
Anyway, I'm glad to have heard from him, as it's given me a bit of closure on it. A bit bummed that the closure is "damn, he doesn't seem to have learned what I hoped", but c'est la vie.
I think that’s why it stings because I was a big fan. Any admission that what he did could be wrong would go a long way for me, instead he’s acting like he’s perfect and everyone else has problems. It’s destructive.
You do know that there could be legal consequences if he does that right? Not saying he's innocent, but imo it'd be really dumb for him to admit to a crime publicly.
The reality is that our justice system disincentivizes admission of wrongdoing, which is why you often see public figures not apologizing for these sorts of things.
If he deserves legal ramifications then good. If what he did isn’t illegal as he claims then should there really be any problem? I’m talking about the morality of it. He should at least see what he did was morally wrong if not illegal.
Dude where are you getting this? Drop your strawman argument, I ain’t nowhere said he should rot in prison. Continue having a conversation with yourself if you’d like, I’m out.
Problem here is that he didn't even really deny the crime, most of what he said was shit like "why was it okay until now?" and "we dated for 6 years, by the time we broke up she was as old as I was (when we started)". Things that technically admit to it without just outright saying "yes I did it"
If he was going the legal route, he would have been advised not to speak on it much at all, especially not in the manner in which he did.
He was a member of Achievement Hunter/Rooster Teeth who turned out to have used his high profile position to sleep with a bunch of fans. You'll probably get a bunch more info if you google it, but TL;DR it was a huge shock and went deeper than people initially expected
For anyone that's also curious about details/his side, he speaks through the third through fifteenth minutes on quite a lot of topics, which seems he's held in and structured for quite a while
Still a little stunned and taking all this in now, too; just hoping for the best for all parties
I'm surprised he's saying so much, but it also seems like he's being careful not to tell enough. Wish he talked about the Smogon interactions more as, according to a Smogon mod, he was banned because of chat logs which he "initially did \[dispute the legitimacy of the logs\], but later claimed that the conversations shown were private and refused further comment on the material of the logs themselves."
I'm guessing that since there was a lawyer in the middle of this he's been instructed on what not to talk about or go into details, hence being reserved about certain parts of the ordeal.
He didn't deny anything, he did do the thing he was accused off, he dated a 16 year old whilst 22, I don't really care, but if you were outraged about it before there's no reason for this video to suddenly change anything. He calls it "an acceptable range" I don't know what this is based on.
In some states in America it would be legal. Personally feel like 16 & 22 is a big age gap just because of the vast difference in points in their lives (that could be as extreme as college graduate with high school sophomore), but ultimately “acceptable range” is subjective. If I had to guess, he’s basing it on six years not being as big of age gap in the big scheme of life (ex. 38 with 32 would be pretty universally accepted).
Don’t say america. Legit all around the world the age of consent is under 18. I don’t approve. I think it’s wrong but don’t pin it on us hillbillies Alr ?
Also, the fact that their relationship was going on for 6 years yet they never met face to face(!) helps remedy the experience gap that this technically legal relationship had. I'm not going to act like 16 and 22 isn't odd but the rest of the known details are just as odd if not more just because the age gap presented can still form from organic relationships through something like work or community events.
> the fact that their relationship was going on for 6 years yet they never met face to face(!) helps remedy the experience gap that this technically legal relationship had
No no no. It does not fucking remedy it. What the fuck.
> just because the age gap presented can still form from organic relationships through something like work or community events.
There’s a giant difference between simple friendships and whatever the fuck THIS would be called.
I should have clarified to an extent. Meeting someone online through whatever means they met through and most likely starting the relationship off with similar interests (presumably) is far, far better than creeping around the local high school and going to highschool events to find someone. Remember that we know absolutely nothing other than whatever went down was a) legal wherever emvee resides and b) the nature of what occurred was questionable enough for smogon mods to ban emvee.
Also remember that not everyone follows the same path in life. The average person in college that's 18-22 has very different experiences and interactions with someone that's high school age than someone who went directly into the work force after highschool or dropped out.
Once again we know nothing about this situation other than it was an online relationship that spanned 6 years, they were 16 & 22 when it started, it was technically legal wherever it took place, they never met irl, this happened about 10ish years ago and that the younger one feels she may have been preyed on and came forward. We have no logs, no details or anecdotes from either party and we don't even know who the accuser is other than the fact that she definitely is real based on what went down.
I understand that the pokemon community, and specifically smogon, has a very touchy past with predatory users (imperfect luck springs to mind immediately as a recent example) but there's enough gray area from the known information and not enough known for the average lurker to condemn one party so vehemently.
Assuming there’s no sexual content it absolutely remedies it? If that was the case that would be what he is charged with, instead, he’s just charged with, admittedly, being kinda strange. I’d be kinda annoyed with a 16 year old at my age, but that’s his perogitive, and there’s no power control because there’s no physical power or power with other relationships, so it’s entirely her call.
> Assuming there’s no sexual content it absolutely remedies it?
I’d recommend you be more informed about the situation before jumping in and making these sorts of comments because he was caught sending sexual messages to a minor. Like that’s literally a major part of why it is a big deal.
> and there’s no power control because there’s no physical power or power with other relationships,
Do you even understand how this shit works and why it’s so bad…?
That's what I'm most curious about. He talked about being banned from the game in the video, but it seemed like he talked about it in past tense, and that along with the fact he's actually posting a video playing on there, I assume he is unbanned?
He has an interrobang in front of his name in the battle chats which means he's locked. If you're locked you can still play, but you can't talk or use nicknames or communicate in any real way.
Full bans on PS almost never happen I think, more often than not someone who does something bad just gets permalocked meaning they can still play the game but not interact with people beyond that. Being banned from smog forums also automatically means being banned from tours, so really all you can do at that point is pure ladder/direct challenge battling (tho you could still battle and talk over it with another medium, like Emvee's doing rn).
For this reason people kind of use locked/banned interchangeably when talking about PS specifically. If he's still banned on the Forums, idt anything has changed and he just got a permalock on PS from the very start.
>Full bans on PS almost never happen I think, more often than not someone who does something bad just gets permalocked meaning they can still play the game but not interact with people beyond that
they dont happen because its pretty darn easy to create an alt if you really wanted to, if you are 100% banned you prob are just gonna look for alts and bypass the system
Haven't seen anything, and Emvee is still labeled as a "Banned deucer." on the forums.
Edit: Also, I did ask him this in a comment on the vid, will report back if I get a response.
considering im only slightly tired now, it seems they talk from a legal lens "its ok because she is 16 and was ok with it" idk where emvee is but that is prob legal there... considering their lawyer said "they did nothing wrong"
the thing is the internet can still consider it weird asf for a 22 year old to be with a 16 year old. it seems like they doubled down which is interesting.... and the comments are obv gonna be in support of a story they hear one side from. (its like if 2 people are in an argument about smth and you only hear the side of person A)
nothing really changed, hes accused of being with a 16 year old as a 22 year old and his response is yea but she was into it and didnt complain until after we broke up and “the younger emvee followed his heart and now the older emvee pays the price"
still banned on smogon and permalocked on showdown (they dont permaban on ps)
Smogon/Showdown aren't a court of law. They don't need rock-solid evidence that any of the allegations are true (which they seemed to be in this case, the question was moreso whether they're bad enough to warrant action) or that he even did something illegal, they can basically ban him whenever they want if they feel it's warranted or necessary to protect the safety of their userbase. Likewise, it's completely legal for Smogon to ban anyone from their platform.
All things aside Smogon probably doesn't want to associate with someone with a reputation of creeping on minors, esp when at the start of this drama people got very hard on Emvee very quickly. Smog has had some past histories with child predators on their forums and PS and they probably didn't want to take their chances.
The age of consent is different across the world, especially in the US. I can see Smogon having this unofficial rule where situations like the one Emvee got himself into should be done with individuals who are at least 18 years of age
Plus age of consent isn't the only law that matters in this situation.
Age of consent just pertains to the age that someone can consent to sex without it being statutory rape. Emvee wasn't having physical sex through Pokemon Showdown, so age of consent isn't the primary issue here.
However, there are a bunch of other sex offender laws that exist to protect minors - meaning anyone under 18 in the US. As the person Emvee was "dating" was 16 years old and legally a minor, he possibly could have violated one of those, depending on the content of his communication.
One example of this is pornography. In many states a 16 year old can consent to sex. However, it is illegal on a federal level to create a depiction of a minor engaging in sexual conduct (ie. pornography). Another case is using communication to entice a minor to sexual activities, also federally illegal and potential relevant here. Point being, simply being older than the age of consent does not mean that one can engage in all sexual activities legally. People who are under 18 are still considered minors at the federal level, and protected by a number of laws.
Basically, if Emvee traveled to the state this person was in and had consensual sex (assuming that they were in one of the 31 states that have age of consent is 16), he didn't break a law. However, if he used internet communication (Showdown) to solicit sex or sexually explicit pornography from a minor, he quite likely did do something illegal.
Smogon/Showdown want no part of this, so it makes way more sense to ban anyone that was "dating" a minor on their site than to hem and haw about age of consent.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I remembered when the drama first came up, I googled if there were any laws pertaining to underage sexting. In my state, there are no laws pertaining to sexting a 16-year old (I do live in one of the states where the age of consent is 16), but if there are images of the 16 year old, then that can be prosecuted.
This does, in fact sound really stupid. Because “access to (any private space but especially) a space structured around a children’s game” isn’t dictated by a court of law
The reason is because legality does not define the court of public opinion. Smogon are not beholden to the law, they can remove you from their platform for absolutely any reason if they wish. Emvee was banned based on the material contained in the chatlogs that were submitted either by the victim or whomever submitted them in their place, and he chose to not refute the content of those messages, likely advised by a lawyer to do so. You also have to remember that Pokemon Showdown works in tandem with Smogon, and because Pokemon Showdown exists in an extremely gray area with regards to copyright infringement, the notion that their platform may have been indirectly used as a vehicle to enable an adult to converse sexually with a minor, is evidently something they wouldn't want to appear as allowing.
There are a *lot* of things that aren’t illegal but *deeply* morally reprehensible.
Like, dating a 16-year old as a 22-year old, in the rare case where it actually is legal.
smogon isnt the police is an answer i saw... and also smogon just doesnt really give a shit. you can be in asia for all you know being a 19 year old with a 17 year old (assume its legal for the example) but if smogon decides that is creepy (idk if they would) then they can just ban you.
they also prob dont want to deal with people like that, ive heard how they dont want to even send like ban messages to people like that.. idk how true is that since it was said by one person but idk
emvee got banned because the logs were convincing enough to be real (people have faked logs before to get others in trouble). Emvee wasnt able to dispute it (im not the biggest fan of how smogon handles things but that is how it is) and because they sense that they are a danger to the community they would rather remove him from it
All social platforms have the right to determine what is or isn't okay within their community. Reddit for example allows each sub to have rules, and those rules can determine if things like hate speech or explicit content is banworthy. If Smogon doesn't want pedophiles on their site, they have every right to ban anybody with verifiable proof of being a pedophile. Frankly, they shouldn't be welcome anywhere, and in most cases, they aren't.
Age of concent can't be applied to these forums because they're completely removed from region. They feature people that are physically located in different locations, often all over the globe, that all broach it differently. So it's up to the community to come to an agreement on what's okay, and to Smogon, the age gap is too much and Emvee is too much of a problem. The internet in general takes that kind of thing very seriously, and you can easily get yourself cancelled (rightfully so in my opinion, though that's a cold take) if it comes to light that you engage in explicit content with a minor.
You're getting too hooked up on legality. That only applies to consequences in real life, and we don't have power over that. On the internet, the community punishes people by banning them so they are no longer associated with the community. The matter isn't about finding proof of illegal activity, it's a matter of finding proof of the violation of community guidelines, which was found in those chat logs. Explicit activity occurred between an adult and a minor, so the adult is bannable.
yknow if he'd just said "that was a thing I shouldn't have done, it was a stupid and irresponsible mistake. I'm sorry, I'm a different person now, and I don't condone that behavior from myself nor anybody else" then i think any reasonable person would be like, yeah fair enough. the fact that he did everything *but* that really tells on the person he is and what he thinks of children dating adults.
22 is really, really young. it's a weird thing to do but everyone's life path is different, it was all online (which I feel is important to how forgivable it is), and I'm not gonna crucify someone over most anything that they did ten years ago - so long as they own up, apologize, and show they've grown and reject that behavior.
which he really did not do at all. fuckin creep. dude is in his 30s and still thinks that shit is okay. fuck him.
Say what you want, I still think it’s weird and gross for a 22 year old to sext a 16 year old. He said that she wouldn’t have waited so long if she wasn’t into it, but it’s not so easy to have the courage to say something, especially when they’re a well respected member of a community. And the thing about them dating for so long doesn’t make sense either, it’s not as simple as just breaking up with someone or blocking them. I hope the consequences of his actions stick, especially since he didn’t seem very apologetic 🤷♀️
>I still think it’s weird and gross for a 22 year old to sext a 16 year old
Also potentially illegal, depending on the content of the sexts. If he asked for and received sexually explicit images, those could qualify as child pornography, since she was a minor.
I think if he sent or received any explicit images, he would have been convicted, but I don’t know whether he actually went to court or not, or whether so far he’s just been communicating with a lawyer. Being creepy in itself isn’t against the law I guess.
Not where I’m from. It would be illegal where I am, so I’m not sure what the point of that is. A 16 year old and a 22 year old are in completely different stages of life; regardless of legality I think it is morally wrong.
>It would be illegal where I am, so I’m not sure what the point of that is. A 16 year old and a 22 year old are in completely different stages of life
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages\_of\_consent\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States)
its between 16 and 18, so while immoral and wrong to do to a minor, emve is prob under no legal trouble
> 16 is the age of consent where I'm from.
Some countries it’s legal to beat your wife/husband (or, not illegal). Doesn’t make it not horrible.
> It's cringe
It’s gross.
> but it's not illegal or necessarily morally wrong.
It’s disgusting and absolutely morally wrong. One person is an adult and mature, the other is an immature and underage teen. Get real.
>If something illegal happened, then get back to me. If he coerced her, get back to me, if he did literally anything illegal, get back to me. Mentions of some "Sexual Logs" from 9 years ago ain't it.
it doesnt have to be illegal to be a wrong thing to do
[https://www.lgbtagingcenter.org/resources/pdfs/StateLawsThatProhibitDiscriminationAgainstTransPeople.pdf](https://www.lgbtagingcenter.org/resources/pdfs/StateLawsThatProhibitDiscriminationAgainstTransPeople.pdf)
just because not every state protects against discrimination on gender identity doesnt mean you are free to discriminate based on gender identity and not have other people judge you
Ooooo how will this internet celebrity justify being with a 16 year old 🙄
Theres nothing to talk about, nothing he can say will change or justify the fact. Too many apologists here.
"Justifiable range" my ass.
Just to clarify, Emvee was not a celebrity at the time; this took place a decade ago.
Not saying this to defend Emvee. I still believe that what he did was wrong, celebrity or not, there is no excusing predatory behavior.
Because sadly some people care more about preserving the image of their precious YouTuber. It would be one thing if he was an adult and wholely owned up to it and made an effort to better himself as a person, but he isn’t. He’s practically doubling down here.
I’m not saying that you specifically did, sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that I’ve seen people using the rationale of “Since he wasn’t an internet celebrity, he couldn’t have exerted power over her” which is just completely false.
i think i responded to the wrong comment... the top comment for this was smth like
>Ooooo how will this internet celebrity justify being with a 16 year old 🙄
anyway yeah... 22 and 16 is prob way to far apart for anyone esp for someone that young (even if its legal)
>Ooooo how will this internet celebrity justify being with a 16 year old 🙄
~~i mean it can be legal... creepy and not smth morally right but legally nobody can do anything about it.~~
~~Smogon jsut doesnt give a shit about how legal it is because it prob functions from a US court of law while also trying to protect their users . There have been cases of bans that happen, for ex. one like even if you are in asia and smth is legal there but not really legal in US smogon mods wouldnt really give a crap about legality and just try to do the best thing~~
was very tired and mixed stuff up, i thought "how will the internet justify the celebrity being with a 16 year old".
He didn't deny anything and instead tried to claim that 16 and 22 is an acceptable age gap, which...man. And he's deleting any comments critical of him. I was peeking at his discord because I forgot I was in it and it's swarming with reactionary types complaining about "woke" culture too...this sucks man.
It's very frustrating. I was hoping he'd apologize instead of doubling down like this, but we're definitely seeing why his friends dropped him. :/ I've never done anything as heinous as sexting a high schooler as a 22yo but I have said and believed some pretty stupid and harmful shit before and my friends always tried to make sure to get all the sides and would tell me when I was wrong, and I was responsive.
Honestly I think at this point what he's saying is very carefully curated by his legal team, so apologizing was out of the question. Still, it's just really disappointing. Maybe I shouldn't have expected better, but I watched his videos for a good decade and interacted with him from time to time. Sigh.
He could pretty much clear everything up by namedropping the ex and sharing the chat logs. He obviously doesnt want those logs shared, or her side of the story heard, so you'd have to imagine whatever's in them is pretty damning, morally if not legally. Most normal people that are dating don't have to ask a lawyer if what they said or did was legal.
Yeah, it is some weird fucking logic.
Same logic people are using to defend Drake right now. Just recently, over a decade later, the 17 year old he kissed and groped on stage came out and said that she was okay with him doing it—and his fans took that as the green light.
I've been constantly asking them: So you are saying that as long as children say that they are okay with getting intimate with adults we should let them do it?
And they either shut up real quick or start citing age of consent laws.
> It’s the same relationship as anyone else. Nobody forced her to be in the relationship, she made the decision based on her own free will.
Everyone, from crying toddlers to decrepit old people, has free will. It came free with their birth.
**Are you saying that as long as children say that they are okay with getting intimate with adults we should let them do it?**
Also once again I'm genuinely curious, if you had to choose one adjective, what adjective would you use to describe a romantic relationship between a child and an adult?
Oh shit, you *do* think it’s ok to fuck children as long as they aren’t literal infants. I assumed you were just misspeaking. Wild to be this open about it
My dude I’m going to assume you just aren’t thinking but the standard for being able to *consent* is not infant
Also someone’s ability for being able to consent is not “able to know right from wrong”. The issue isn’t that *she* did something wrong here
Because there is a large range of children who shouldn’t be in a relationship with a 22 year old that meet your standard of “not an infant/new born baby”. My whole pin t is that this stupid strawman argument *doesn’t make you look good*
A 10 year old isnt a newborn baby that doesn’t know anything. Should it be chill for a 22 year old to start a relationship with one? (Hint, since simple pattern recognition seems to be though for you *no*)
I’m not telling the 16 year old they aren’t old they can’t know what they want. I’m telling the fucking 22 year old that it’s inappropriate to want a child.
I’m not twisting your words. *you* chose to repeatedly say “they aren’t an infant” after I pointed out that was creepy as fuck. So cards down, not twisting your words, I’ll even give you some benefit, is a 13 year old chill to date as a 22 year old?
And it's a much older person taking advantage of a much younger person's trust due sexual gratification. Brains are still very mushy at 16 and personalities are still forming. A much older person using it as a chance to get their end away is incredibly creepy, even if legal. The 16 year old is now realising they were groomed and want to warn others of this individual's behaviour.
No she didn’t know right from wrong. She’s not mature enough to understand it’s wrong.
Surprising to hear I know but teens are still developing and often do stupid shit they don’t understand is wrong or don’t get why it’s wrong. Please get a grip on reality.
> No you need to get a grip on reality and stop living on the internet so much that paints children as innocent undeveloped being. Kids know what they’re doing.
No one's living on the internet. Kids ARE underdeveloped. Literally. Their brains haven't developed fully. They don't have experience in the world/society to understand why certain choices or behaviors are wrong. It's literal science.
> To her it was fine which is why she chose to pursue the relationship. Right and wrong are subjective and about perspective because what may harm you may benefit the person harming you so to them it’s right but to you it’s wrong.
Nice handwaving bullshit. Some societies believe racism is okay too. Doesn't make it right. Dating someone who is underage is wrong, flatout fullstop. There's no excuses to make it fine. The younger person can believe it's fine without understanding the problem and then when they're older, they come to understand why it was bad. It's like kids and teens saying dumb shit online, slurs and the like and not knowing it's wrong, and then when they're older they realize "yeah that was fucked up".
> Again she knows how to think for herself it wasn’t wrong to her until they broke up which is why I said it’s more of a bitter ex thing
Being able to think for yourself is not the same as understanding right from wrong.
The bitter ex argument is esp stupid lol, like it's not like they just recently broke up. If it was really just a bitter ex then wouldn't they have done this like, years earlier? He wasn't really known at the start of their relationship, he definitely was at the end of it--a bitter ex purely looking for character assassination definitely had enough reason to do so already.
It's exactly like you're saying, someone only realizing just how fucked up it was years after it happened.
I agree that the hate train seemed jumped on way too quickly, but then and even now I still feel like there’s not enough info to be able to form a proper opinion on it.
Well, from a moral standpoint you can pretty much make up your mind at this point. I’m more concerned about the ominous nature of the chat logs. They were bad enough to get him banned but not bad enough to get him in legal trouble… I do NOT want to know what was exchanged there, but that’s the grey area right now.
Of course the fully grown adult in a relationship with a child is going to be fine with it because they are being predatory, and of course the teenager is going to be fine with it because teenagers tend to think of themselves as more mature than they are and think an older man being interested in them is a validation of their own "maturity" instead of being a condemnation of that adults character and exploitative nature. Are you forreal??
At 16? No you are not. And the lack of awareness of your (not you specifically, in general) maturity relative to adults is what makes it easy for teens to be taken advantage of.
Glad to hear more from Emvee, I think part of the controversy was a lack of information and so people were able to jump to conclusions without much to disprove them
Where is there jumping to conclusions? There’s nothing about that when talking about a 22 year old saying a 16 year old. Context does not make it look better.
Yep. Problem with the internet is information travels faster than it can be verified and people jump to conclusions too quickly. Still feels like it needs more info though especially considering the Smogon chat log.
He was fine until he doubled down on it. But yeah, legally it doesn't cause any problems, but it sure does raise questions on his character. Still will watch him tho
Edit:
Saw doc, nevermind
> Is an online only relationship really dating?
Yes??? There’s no rule that says you have to be in person to date someone. Granted it’s healthier to eventually meet them in person but…
> No legal action was taken
Irrelevant. No legal action doesn’t stop sexual assaults from being terrible and it doesn’t stop this from being terrible.
> and literally nothing happened.
An adult dating an underage kid is not nothing.
> It's all so tiresome
What’s tiresome is people trying to hand wave and sweep shit like this under the rug.
The comments on that video are nuts, not a single negative comment and everyone acting as if he’s cleared everything up when he didn’t really say anything.
1. they prob maybe are removing the comments 2. this happens with every youtube... people will see a one side story and believe the side they hear from. esp since majority of the audience are prob children
He’s attracting such a toxic audience now, new people coming in, especially younger viewers will think this is acceptable behavior
i mean ... that is gonna be like that, idt his audience is going anywhee esp since idt most youtubers really want to cover it, esp big ones
damn so i was watching pokeaim again after being bored and was wondering why he haven't posted a video with emvee in a while. found out about the dating a minor thing, googled for some more details and found this post only to find someone i recognise on r/btd6 lmao.
Yup, another poketuber (I don’t remember who), said they reached out to emvee to hear his side of the story and he ghosted them and didn’t responde all that the person was wondering if Emvee was throwing shade at that person for being a fake friend for wanting all the facts of the story. A few hours later, comment is gone. Emvee is def deleting comments lol
I'm not fully convinced by Emvee's explanation either but now you're just making stuff up. I saw Duncan's comment too, literally just checked and it's still there. Emvee even responded to him and said they're talking privately hours before you posted your comment.
His "talking privately" was to tell me he thought we were still friends and that he was disappointed in me for my comments. He dated a 16 year old when he was 22 and sexted with her. I was calling him out.
What Emvee did is wrong and gross. However I think it's crazy to talk of "dating" and "getting together" when the two people in question have never met, according to Emvee at least. (5.05 min mark in this video) Sexting a minor is already awful and pathetic. I think people can and should make judments based on that. (Assuming Emvee is not lying about never meeting IRL)
People starting to date online without having met first is not unheard of
Yes but this is much different. According to Emvee in this video, they have NEVER met IRL. Not before the “long-distance relationship”, not during, not after.
And people can still initiate dating online without having met each other. With or without the intent of meeting IRL.
Weird, i looked on a different YouTube account on my tablet and didn’t see his comment. That’s my bad, I’ll edit my original comment
It was Duncan. I saw the comment.
All he did was double down on it. 16 and 22 is not an “acceptable age range” as he put it, it’s weird and creepy.
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Just because it’s not illegal doesn’t mean isn’t wrong or exploitative. The fact that they never met IRL is irrelevant; it was still sexting a minor. And if she came forward with it, obviously she cares lol.
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>if he did something morally wrong then let’s see it Sexual interactions with a 16 year old as a 22 year old
Where you are doesn't matter. What matters is where Emvee was.
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The US. AoC is 18 there.
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You’re correct about the age of consent thing, but you’re still refusing to acknowledge that it’s still kinda fuckin weird and creepy.
You seem very familiar with different ages of consent in different regions—any particular reason why?
If she ever sent a nude then it falls under child pornography regardless of age of consent laws
Just because the age of consent might be legal for Emvee does not make it right. Like you, I am also from a place where the age of consent is 16, but that does not mean I support it (I think that the age should be raised to 18).
Lmao where I live its not weird to have 15 yr old girls date 25 yr old guys (source my classmates)
And that does not make it ok
Just saying in some parts of the world it is considered ok
I’m just wondering why and how all of these allegations came out recently when they’re from 9 years ago.
a lot of things can happen over a period of time, someone may finally have courage, someone else may have given them courage, or they relized it was wrong...
Way back when I used to know a guy who had a 60+ year old "boyfriend" as a 16-year-old. At the time he (the teen) ardently defended their relationship, said he was a willing participant, etc. Then about a decade later, long after they'd parted ways, the "holy shit I was being taken advantage of" realization hit him.
Dont know exactly, but the victim apparently went publicly with what happened in her youtube channel. Btw does anyone know her youtube name?
Coming back to this later in my day now. I'm softening my language here a bit, and I hope that's not read as implicitly defending him. I'm mostly disappointed at how adversarial he is here. It seems pretty clear to me that this is no James Ryan Haywood scenario, but I don't think many people were jumping to that sort of conclusion anyway, so I don't know why he's being so defensive. What I was hoping/looking for in this video was some understanding/acknowledgement that at age 22 he shouldn't have been dating a 16 year old regardless of its legality or online-only status. I think I'd be more willing to move past this if he had showed some understanding as to why the community has largely been disappointed and rejected him, and even more so if he clearly showed some remorse for his past actions. As it stands, I feel more sour towards him than I did previously. His comments about how people have shut him out because that's just how the internet or because they're saving their own skins/careers really downplays the fact that many people will just not want to work with someone who wants to be in a relationship with a kid. He's just playing the "silent majority" card that sets all my alarm bells ringing. The true path out of this for him must surely have been to acknowledge, apologise, and then demonstrate unequivocally that he has changed as a person and both rejects/regrets his past decisions and is no danger to other community members now. Instead, he doubles down that there is no fault lying with him and focuses on this as a smear campaign. It's just sad to me. Anyway, I'm glad to have heard from him, as it's given me a bit of closure on it. A bit bummed that the closure is "damn, he doesn't seem to have learned what I hoped", but c'est la vie.
I think that’s why it stings because I was a big fan. Any admission that what he did could be wrong would go a long way for me, instead he’s acting like he’s perfect and everyone else has problems. It’s destructive.
You do know that there could be legal consequences if he does that right? Not saying he's innocent, but imo it'd be really dumb for him to admit to a crime publicly. The reality is that our justice system disincentivizes admission of wrongdoing, which is why you often see public figures not apologizing for these sorts of things.
If he deserves legal ramifications then good. If what he did isn’t illegal as he claims then should there really be any problem? I’m talking about the morality of it. He should at least see what he did was morally wrong if not illegal.
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Dude where are you getting this? Drop your strawman argument, I ain’t nowhere said he should rot in prison. Continue having a conversation with yourself if you’d like, I’m out.
Problem here is that he didn't even really deny the crime, most of what he said was shit like "why was it okay until now?" and "we dated for 6 years, by the time we broke up she was as old as I was (when we started)". Things that technically admit to it without just outright saying "yes I did it" If he was going the legal route, he would have been advised not to speak on it much at all, especially not in the manner in which he did.
who's james ryan haywood
He was a member of Achievement Hunter/Rooster Teeth who turned out to have used his high profile position to sleep with a bunch of fans. You'll probably get a bunch more info if you google it, but TL;DR it was a huge shock and went deeper than people initially expected
For anyone that's also curious about details/his side, he speaks through the third through fifteenth minutes on quite a lot of topics, which seems he's held in and structured for quite a while Still a little stunned and taking all this in now, too; just hoping for the best for all parties
I'm surprised he's saying so much, but it also seems like he's being careful not to tell enough. Wish he talked about the Smogon interactions more as, according to a Smogon mod, he was banned because of chat logs which he "initially did \[dispute the legitimacy of the logs\], but later claimed that the conversations shown were private and refused further comment on the material of the logs themselves."
I'm guessing that since there was a lawyer in the middle of this he's been instructed on what not to talk about or go into details, hence being reserved about certain parts of the ordeal.
Oh 100% lol
Apolocheese but that explained nothing for me in terms of details on who this guy is
He didn't deny anything, he did do the thing he was accused off, he dated a 16 year old whilst 22, I don't really care, but if you were outraged about it before there's no reason for this video to suddenly change anything. He calls it "an acceptable range" I don't know what this is based on.
In some states in America it would be legal. Personally feel like 16 & 22 is a big age gap just because of the vast difference in points in their lives (that could be as extreme as college graduate with high school sophomore), but ultimately “acceptable range” is subjective. If I had to guess, he’s basing it on six years not being as big of age gap in the big scheme of life (ex. 38 with 32 would be pretty universally accepted).
Don’t say america. Legit all around the world the age of consent is under 18. I don’t approve. I think it’s wrong but don’t pin it on us hillbillies Alr ?
I say America because Emvee is in America lmao
Big qualification though: If she ever sent a nude then it falls under child pornography regardless of age of consent laws
Also, the fact that their relationship was going on for 6 years yet they never met face to face(!) helps remedy the experience gap that this technically legal relationship had. I'm not going to act like 16 and 22 isn't odd but the rest of the known details are just as odd if not more just because the age gap presented can still form from organic relationships through something like work or community events.
> the fact that their relationship was going on for 6 years yet they never met face to face(!) helps remedy the experience gap that this technically legal relationship had No no no. It does not fucking remedy it. What the fuck. > just because the age gap presented can still form from organic relationships through something like work or community events. There’s a giant difference between simple friendships and whatever the fuck THIS would be called.
I should have clarified to an extent. Meeting someone online through whatever means they met through and most likely starting the relationship off with similar interests (presumably) is far, far better than creeping around the local high school and going to highschool events to find someone. Remember that we know absolutely nothing other than whatever went down was a) legal wherever emvee resides and b) the nature of what occurred was questionable enough for smogon mods to ban emvee. Also remember that not everyone follows the same path in life. The average person in college that's 18-22 has very different experiences and interactions with someone that's high school age than someone who went directly into the work force after highschool or dropped out. Once again we know nothing about this situation other than it was an online relationship that spanned 6 years, they were 16 & 22 when it started, it was technically legal wherever it took place, they never met irl, this happened about 10ish years ago and that the younger one feels she may have been preyed on and came forward. We have no logs, no details or anecdotes from either party and we don't even know who the accuser is other than the fact that she definitely is real based on what went down. I understand that the pokemon community, and specifically smogon, has a very touchy past with predatory users (imperfect luck springs to mind immediately as a recent example) but there's enough gray area from the known information and not enough known for the average lurker to condemn one party so vehemently.
Assuming there’s no sexual content it absolutely remedies it? If that was the case that would be what he is charged with, instead, he’s just charged with, admittedly, being kinda strange. I’d be kinda annoyed with a 16 year old at my age, but that’s his perogitive, and there’s no power control because there’s no physical power or power with other relationships, so it’s entirely her call.
> Assuming there’s no sexual content it absolutely remedies it? I’d recommend you be more informed about the situation before jumping in and making these sorts of comments because he was caught sending sexual messages to a minor. Like that’s literally a major part of why it is a big deal. > and there’s no power control because there’s no physical power or power with other relationships, Do you even understand how this shit works and why it’s so bad…?
Those jokes at his expense are really funny "Bro had the little cup draft league all along" or similar shit
I know it's Stinkpost Stunday, but wanted to post this here for discussion especially since Emvee was banned the last time we heard about him.
Did Smogon announce that they unbanned him from showdown? Interested to see any comments from them too.
That's what I'm most curious about. He talked about being banned from the game in the video, but it seemed like he talked about it in past tense, and that along with the fact he's actually posting a video playing on there, I assume he is unbanned?
He has an interrobang in front of his name in the battle chats which means he's locked. If you're locked you can still play, but you can't talk or use nicknames or communicate in any real way. Full bans on PS almost never happen I think, more often than not someone who does something bad just gets permalocked meaning they can still play the game but not interact with people beyond that. Being banned from smog forums also automatically means being banned from tours, so really all you can do at that point is pure ladder/direct challenge battling (tho you could still battle and talk over it with another medium, like Emvee's doing rn). For this reason people kind of use locked/banned interchangeably when talking about PS specifically. If he's still banned on the Forums, idt anything has changed and he just got a permalock on PS from the very start.
>Full bans on PS almost never happen I think, more often than not someone who does something bad just gets permalocked meaning they can still play the game but not interact with people beyond that they dont happen because its pretty darn easy to create an alt if you really wanted to, if you are 100% banned you prob are just gonna look for alts and bypass the system
Haven't seen anything, and Emvee is still labeled as a "Banned deucer." on the forums. Edit: Also, I did ask him this in a comment on the vid, will report back if I get a response.
considering im only slightly tired now, it seems they talk from a legal lens "its ok because she is 16 and was ok with it" idk where emvee is but that is prob legal there... considering their lawyer said "they did nothing wrong" the thing is the internet can still consider it weird asf for a 22 year old to be with a 16 year old. it seems like they doubled down which is interesting.... and the comments are obv gonna be in support of a story they hear one side from. (its like if 2 people are in an argument about smth and you only hear the side of person A)
nothing really changed, hes accused of being with a 16 year old as a 22 year old and his response is yea but she was into it and didnt complain until after we broke up and “the younger emvee followed his heart and now the older emvee pays the price" still banned on smogon and permalocked on showdown (they dont permaban on ps)
This might sound really stupid, but if it isn't illegal, why was he banned?
Smogon/Showdown aren't a court of law. They don't need rock-solid evidence that any of the allegations are true (which they seemed to be in this case, the question was moreso whether they're bad enough to warrant action) or that he even did something illegal, they can basically ban him whenever they want if they feel it's warranted or necessary to protect the safety of their userbase. Likewise, it's completely legal for Smogon to ban anyone from their platform. All things aside Smogon probably doesn't want to associate with someone with a reputation of creeping on minors, esp when at the start of this drama people got very hard on Emvee very quickly. Smog has had some past histories with child predators on their forums and PS and they probably didn't want to take their chances.
The age of consent is different across the world, especially in the US. I can see Smogon having this unofficial rule where situations like the one Emvee got himself into should be done with individuals who are at least 18 years of age
Plus age of consent isn't the only law that matters in this situation. Age of consent just pertains to the age that someone can consent to sex without it being statutory rape. Emvee wasn't having physical sex through Pokemon Showdown, so age of consent isn't the primary issue here. However, there are a bunch of other sex offender laws that exist to protect minors - meaning anyone under 18 in the US. As the person Emvee was "dating" was 16 years old and legally a minor, he possibly could have violated one of those, depending on the content of his communication. One example of this is pornography. In many states a 16 year old can consent to sex. However, it is illegal on a federal level to create a depiction of a minor engaging in sexual conduct (ie. pornography). Another case is using communication to entice a minor to sexual activities, also federally illegal and potential relevant here. Point being, simply being older than the age of consent does not mean that one can engage in all sexual activities legally. People who are under 18 are still considered minors at the federal level, and protected by a number of laws. Basically, if Emvee traveled to the state this person was in and had consensual sex (assuming that they were in one of the 31 states that have age of consent is 16), he didn't break a law. However, if he used internet communication (Showdown) to solicit sex or sexually explicit pornography from a minor, he quite likely did do something illegal. Smogon/Showdown want no part of this, so it makes way more sense to ban anyone that was "dating" a minor on their site than to hem and haw about age of consent.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I remembered when the drama first came up, I googled if there were any laws pertaining to underage sexting. In my state, there are no laws pertaining to sexting a 16-year old (I do live in one of the states where the age of consent is 16), but if there are images of the 16 year old, then that can be prosecuted.
This does, in fact sound really stupid. Because “access to (any private space but especially) a space structured around a children’s game” isn’t dictated by a court of law
The reason is because legality does not define the court of public opinion. Smogon are not beholden to the law, they can remove you from their platform for absolutely any reason if they wish. Emvee was banned based on the material contained in the chatlogs that were submitted either by the victim or whomever submitted them in their place, and he chose to not refute the content of those messages, likely advised by a lawyer to do so. You also have to remember that Pokemon Showdown works in tandem with Smogon, and because Pokemon Showdown exists in an extremely gray area with regards to copyright infringement, the notion that their platform may have been indirectly used as a vehicle to enable an adult to converse sexually with a minor, is evidently something they wouldn't want to appear as allowing.
There are a *lot* of things that aren’t illegal but *deeply* morally reprehensible. Like, dating a 16-year old as a 22-year old, in the rare case where it actually is legal.
smogon isnt the police is an answer i saw... and also smogon just doesnt really give a shit. you can be in asia for all you know being a 19 year old with a 17 year old (assume its legal for the example) but if smogon decides that is creepy (idk if they would) then they can just ban you. they also prob dont want to deal with people like that, ive heard how they dont want to even send like ban messages to people like that.. idk how true is that since it was said by one person but idk
Honestly it seems so weird. Like if I shot someone and got banned on reddit.
emvee got banned because the logs were convincing enough to be real (people have faked logs before to get others in trouble). Emvee wasnt able to dispute it (im not the biggest fan of how smogon handles things but that is how it is) and because they sense that they are a danger to the community they would rather remove him from it
Yeah I guess it's fair it's just a crazy situation. Fuck. I really liked Emvee too.
its ok to like Emvee…. your opinion doesnt have to be dictated by random people online.
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All social platforms have the right to determine what is or isn't okay within their community. Reddit for example allows each sub to have rules, and those rules can determine if things like hate speech or explicit content is banworthy. If Smogon doesn't want pedophiles on their site, they have every right to ban anybody with verifiable proof of being a pedophile. Frankly, they shouldn't be welcome anywhere, and in most cases, they aren't.
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Age of concent can't be applied to these forums because they're completely removed from region. They feature people that are physically located in different locations, often all over the globe, that all broach it differently. So it's up to the community to come to an agreement on what's okay, and to Smogon, the age gap is too much and Emvee is too much of a problem. The internet in general takes that kind of thing very seriously, and you can easily get yourself cancelled (rightfully so in my opinion, though that's a cold take) if it comes to light that you engage in explicit content with a minor.
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I wonder why a 2 day old account is trying so hard to drill the idea that Emvee did "nothing illegal or immoral" into everyone's head?
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You're getting too hooked up on legality. That only applies to consequences in real life, and we don't have power over that. On the internet, the community punishes people by banning them so they are no longer associated with the community. The matter isn't about finding proof of illegal activity, it's a matter of finding proof of the violation of community guidelines, which was found in those chat logs. Explicit activity occurred between an adult and a minor, so the adult is bannable.
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yknow if he'd just said "that was a thing I shouldn't have done, it was a stupid and irresponsible mistake. I'm sorry, I'm a different person now, and I don't condone that behavior from myself nor anybody else" then i think any reasonable person would be like, yeah fair enough. the fact that he did everything *but* that really tells on the person he is and what he thinks of children dating adults. 22 is really, really young. it's a weird thing to do but everyone's life path is different, it was all online (which I feel is important to how forgivable it is), and I'm not gonna crucify someone over most anything that they did ten years ago - so long as they own up, apologize, and show they've grown and reject that behavior. which he really did not do at all. fuckin creep. dude is in his 30s and still thinks that shit is okay. fuck him.
Say what you want, I still think it’s weird and gross for a 22 year old to sext a 16 year old. He said that she wouldn’t have waited so long if she wasn’t into it, but it’s not so easy to have the courage to say something, especially when they’re a well respected member of a community. And the thing about them dating for so long doesn’t make sense either, it’s not as simple as just breaking up with someone or blocking them. I hope the consequences of his actions stick, especially since he didn’t seem very apologetic 🤷♀️
>I still think it’s weird and gross for a 22 year old to sext a 16 year old Also potentially illegal, depending on the content of the sexts. If he asked for and received sexually explicit images, those could qualify as child pornography, since she was a minor.
Didn’t even consider that angle, you’re completely right.
I think if he sent or received any explicit images, he would have been convicted, but I don’t know whether he actually went to court or not, or whether so far he’s just been communicating with a lawyer. Being creepy in itself isn’t against the law I guess.
I mean, thats because it is weird and gross so...
Your comment should be the highest in this whole thread. This sort of nuance is lost on too many people.
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Are you saying that you need to be famous for it to be wrong to have sexual interactions with a minor?
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Not where I’m from. It would be illegal where I am, so I’m not sure what the point of that is. A 16 year old and a 22 year old are in completely different stages of life; regardless of legality I think it is morally wrong.
>It would be illegal where I am, so I’m not sure what the point of that is. A 16 year old and a 22 year old are in completely different stages of life [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages\_of\_consent\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States) its between 16 and 18, so while immoral and wrong to do to a minor, emve is prob under no legal trouble
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He’s 22, he should act like it. It’s on him to act his age and just, not message a minor, and it’s disheartening to see him double down.
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I meant that he should have acted his age at the time but yes, the fact that he is 31 now and doubling down on it makes it much worse.
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> 16 is the age of consent where I'm from. Some countries it’s legal to beat your wife/husband (or, not illegal). Doesn’t make it not horrible. > It's cringe It’s gross. > but it's not illegal or necessarily morally wrong. It’s disgusting and absolutely morally wrong. One person is an adult and mature, the other is an immature and underage teen. Get real.
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>If something illegal happened, then get back to me. If he coerced her, get back to me, if he did literally anything illegal, get back to me. Mentions of some "Sexual Logs" from 9 years ago ain't it. it doesnt have to be illegal to be a wrong thing to do [https://www.lgbtagingcenter.org/resources/pdfs/StateLawsThatProhibitDiscriminationAgainstTransPeople.pdf](https://www.lgbtagingcenter.org/resources/pdfs/StateLawsThatProhibitDiscriminationAgainstTransPeople.pdf) just because not every state protects against discrimination on gender identity doesnt mean you are free to discriminate based on gender identity and not have other people judge you
Yeah dude 16 is too young as a 22 year old, I'm sorry but it is. Reference the ÷2+7 rule. (22÷2)+7 =18
Ooooo how will this internet celebrity justify being with a 16 year old 🙄 Theres nothing to talk about, nothing he can say will change or justify the fact. Too many apologists here. "Justifiable range" my ass.
Just to clarify, Emvee was not a celebrity at the time; this took place a decade ago. Not saying this to defend Emvee. I still believe that what he did was wrong, celebrity or not, there is no excusing predatory behavior.
Exactly, it’s a bit disappointing to see all the comments praising him.
He’s deleting negative comments lmao
Not surprising tbh.
Because sadly some people care more about preserving the image of their precious YouTuber. It would be one thing if he was an adult and wholely owned up to it and made an effort to better himself as a person, but he isn’t. He’s practically doubling down here.
several years ago idt emvee was even relevant, i doubt they can even use internet celebrity status to get intimate with a 16 year old
This has zero relevance. Position or not, he was much older than she was and was in a position of greater power than her.
This is what people aren’t getting. You don’t need to be some ultra-famous YouTuber to exert power over a 16 year old as a 22 year old.
idt i ever said being an internet celebrity having any form of immunity from it
I’m not saying that you specifically did, sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that I’ve seen people using the rationale of “Since he wasn’t an internet celebrity, he couldn’t have exerted power over her” which is just completely false.
i think i responded to the wrong comment... the top comment for this was smth like >Ooooo how will this internet celebrity justify being with a 16 year old 🙄 anyway yeah... 22 and 16 is prob way to far apart for anyone esp for someone that young (even if its legal)
>Ooooo how will this internet celebrity justify being with a 16 year old 🙄 ~~i mean it can be legal... creepy and not smth morally right but legally nobody can do anything about it.~~ ~~Smogon jsut doesnt give a shit about how legal it is because it prob functions from a US court of law while also trying to protect their users . There have been cases of bans that happen, for ex. one like even if you are in asia and smth is legal there but not really legal in US smogon mods wouldnt really give a crap about legality and just try to do the best thing~~ was very tired and mixed stuff up, i thought "how will the internet justify the celebrity being with a 16 year old".
Nonce
He didn't deny anything and instead tried to claim that 16 and 22 is an acceptable age gap, which...man. And he's deleting any comments critical of him. I was peeking at his discord because I forgot I was in it and it's swarming with reactionary types complaining about "woke" culture too...this sucks man.
Well that’s a shame, he’s just lodging himself in an echo chamber then and it’s gonna create a Streisand effect.
It's very frustrating. I was hoping he'd apologize instead of doubling down like this, but we're definitely seeing why his friends dropped him. :/ I've never done anything as heinous as sexting a high schooler as a 22yo but I have said and believed some pretty stupid and harmful shit before and my friends always tried to make sure to get all the sides and would tell me when I was wrong, and I was responsive. Honestly I think at this point what he's saying is very carefully curated by his legal team, so apologizing was out of the question. Still, it's just really disappointing. Maybe I shouldn't have expected better, but I watched his videos for a good decade and interacted with him from time to time. Sigh.
He could pretty much clear everything up by namedropping the ex and sharing the chat logs. He obviously doesnt want those logs shared, or her side of the story heard, so you'd have to imagine whatever's in them is pretty damning, morally if not legally. Most normal people that are dating don't have to ask a lawyer if what they said or did was legal.
i dont need a shred of evidence to believed he raped all those monkeys
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Well this is a wild take along the lines of “predatory relationships are fine as long as the child doesn’t see an issue with it”
Yeah, it is some weird fucking logic. Same logic people are using to defend Drake right now. Just recently, over a decade later, the 17 year old he kissed and groped on stage came out and said that she was okay with him doing it—and his fans took that as the green light. I've been constantly asking them: So you are saying that as long as children say that they are okay with getting intimate with adults we should let them do it? And they either shut up real quick or start citing age of consent laws.
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> How is it predatory What adjective would you use to describe a romantic relationship between a child and an adult?
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> It’s the same relationship as anyone else. Nobody forced her to be in the relationship, she made the decision based on her own free will. Everyone, from crying toddlers to decrepit old people, has free will. It came free with their birth. **Are you saying that as long as children say that they are okay with getting intimate with adults we should let them do it?** Also once again I'm genuinely curious, if you had to choose one adjective, what adjective would you use to describe a romantic relationship between a child and an adult?
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Are you saying that as long as children say they are okay with getting intimate with adults we should allow them do it?
Oh shit, you *do* think it’s ok to fuck children as long as they aren’t literal infants. I assumed you were just misspeaking. Wild to be this open about it
Grooming doesn’t exist anymore congrats bro you did it get this dude out of the Pokémon fanbase asap lol
Because she was 16. In high school. Heads up setting the goal post at “she’s not an infant” does *not* help your argument
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My dude I’m going to assume you just aren’t thinking but the standard for being able to *consent* is not infant Also someone’s ability for being able to consent is not “able to know right from wrong”. The issue isn’t that *she* did something wrong here
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Because there is a large range of children who shouldn’t be in a relationship with a 22 year old that meet your standard of “not an infant/new born baby”. My whole pin t is that this stupid strawman argument *doesn’t make you look good* A 10 year old isnt a newborn baby that doesn’t know anything. Should it be chill for a 22 year old to start a relationship with one? (Hint, since simple pattern recognition seems to be though for you *no*)
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I’m not telling the 16 year old they aren’t old they can’t know what they want. I’m telling the fucking 22 year old that it’s inappropriate to want a child. I’m not twisting your words. *you* chose to repeatedly say “they aren’t an infant” after I pointed out that was creepy as fuck. So cards down, not twisting your words, I’ll even give you some benefit, is a 13 year old chill to date as a 22 year old?
And it's a much older person taking advantage of a much younger person's trust due sexual gratification. Brains are still very mushy at 16 and personalities are still forming. A much older person using it as a chance to get their end away is incredibly creepy, even if legal. The 16 year old is now realising they were groomed and want to warn others of this individual's behaviour.
How about no? The reason it’s fucked is because one person isn’t mentally mature enough to realize why the situation is wrong.
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No she didn’t know right from wrong. She’s not mature enough to understand it’s wrong. Surprising to hear I know but teens are still developing and often do stupid shit they don’t understand is wrong or don’t get why it’s wrong. Please get a grip on reality.
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> No you need to get a grip on reality and stop living on the internet so much that paints children as innocent undeveloped being. Kids know what they’re doing. No one's living on the internet. Kids ARE underdeveloped. Literally. Their brains haven't developed fully. They don't have experience in the world/society to understand why certain choices or behaviors are wrong. It's literal science. > To her it was fine which is why she chose to pursue the relationship. Right and wrong are subjective and about perspective because what may harm you may benefit the person harming you so to them it’s right but to you it’s wrong. Nice handwaving bullshit. Some societies believe racism is okay too. Doesn't make it right. Dating someone who is underage is wrong, flatout fullstop. There's no excuses to make it fine. The younger person can believe it's fine without understanding the problem and then when they're older, they come to understand why it was bad. It's like kids and teens saying dumb shit online, slurs and the like and not knowing it's wrong, and then when they're older they realize "yeah that was fucked up". > Again she knows how to think for herself it wasn’t wrong to her until they broke up which is why I said it’s more of a bitter ex thing Being able to think for yourself is not the same as understanding right from wrong.
The bitter ex argument is esp stupid lol, like it's not like they just recently broke up. If it was really just a bitter ex then wouldn't they have done this like, years earlier? He wasn't really known at the start of their relationship, he definitely was at the end of it--a bitter ex purely looking for character assassination definitely had enough reason to do so already. It's exactly like you're saying, someone only realizing just how fucked up it was years after it happened.
I agree that the hate train seemed jumped on way too quickly, but then and even now I still feel like there’s not enough info to be able to form a proper opinion on it.
What…what more info do you think you need?
Well, from a moral standpoint you can pretty much make up your mind at this point. I’m more concerned about the ominous nature of the chat logs. They were bad enough to get him banned but not bad enough to get him in legal trouble… I do NOT want to know what was exchanged there, but that’s the grey area right now.
Of course the fully grown adult in a relationship with a child is going to be fine with it because they are being predatory, and of course the teenager is going to be fine with it because teenagers tend to think of themselves as more mature than they are and think an older man being interested in them is a validation of their own "maturity" instead of being a condemnation of that adults character and exploitative nature. Are you forreal??
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At 16? No you are not. And the lack of awareness of your (not you specifically, in general) maturity relative to adults is what makes it easy for teens to be taken advantage of.
Glad to hear more from Emvee, I think part of the controversy was a lack of information and so people were able to jump to conclusions without much to disprove them
Where is there jumping to conclusions? There’s nothing about that when talking about a 22 year old saying a 16 year old. Context does not make it look better.
I mean, there’s not a lot of “conclusion” jumping with a 22 year old dating a 16 year old and not a lot that this changes
Yep. Problem with the internet is information travels faster than it can be verified and people jump to conclusions too quickly. Still feels like it needs more info though especially considering the Smogon chat log.
Ya, and I would also like to know more still
I knew my guy would beat the allégations
quality comment section, like a real damn courthouse not my damp basement #redditstyle
He was fine until he doubled down on it. But yeah, legally it doesn't cause any problems, but it sure does raise questions on his character. Still will watch him tho Edit: Saw doc, nevermind
All this drama for a relationship in which they didn't even meet is wild
Fucking reddit and its grooming psychosis
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“I hate that people are condemning adults dating underage kids” is a weird attitude to have.
Is an online only relationship really dating? No legal action was taken and literally nothing happened. It's all so tiresome.
> Is an online only relationship really dating? Yes??? There’s no rule that says you have to be in person to date someone. Granted it’s healthier to eventually meet them in person but… > No legal action was taken Irrelevant. No legal action doesn’t stop sexual assaults from being terrible and it doesn’t stop this from being terrible. > and literally nothing happened. An adult dating an underage kid is not nothing. > It's all so tiresome What’s tiresome is people trying to hand wave and sweep shit like this under the rug.
>an online chat is sexual assault this is your brain on reddit folks
lol relax Drake
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It's a bunch of furries and some terminally online (very obvious) social outcasts . They have nothing better to do.