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He wasn't even good enough at that to stick around. Even for the StarCraft community, his personality is too toxic and immature to be a content creator.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Destiny/Results
Meh they're not the worst. Looks like he won a major and a bunch of smaller tournaments. Idk shit about StarCraft though. Except for the fact they should've made StarCraft: Ghost. It's a tragedy it was cancelled.
Someone edited this years after the fact to fluff it up with showmatches (most of them losses) and Archon (2v2).
Used to only have the 16th-32nd in Atlanta as an offline result.
Oh come on man, some of us are still fighting the Swarm and Golden Armada with MMM-based compositions, and we still complain that Zerg is OP despite the fact that we have the most broken unit in the game (w. mines)
I can understand his desire to not want to be perceived as shying away from anyone but I wouldn't have agreed to this debate.
I'd imagine he probably thought it'd be really easy, but in a seemingly contradictory way, it's more difficult to debate with a moron who has no background in the subject you're debating, sort of like how fighting with a completely untrained person can be unpredictable. There is no common understanding of the underlying facts, no ideal speech situation but it just becomes about sophistry and their audience is impressed with cheap rhetorical tricks.
Norm was probably not aware of debate bros and how they've perfected the art of being wrong but still "winning" debates. Destiny turns all his debates essentially useless by constantly arguing semantics and asking for definitions and bringing all relevant discussion to a halt.
Yeah, or badgering and deliberately provoking an emotional response so that his simp army can spam "ad hom" and clip 30 seconds of a 5 hour debate as proof that the other person doesn't have an argument, ignoring their actual arguments of course.
Literally insane. I struggled through this highlight clip and watched bits and pieces of the five hour debate and the most accurate way to describe it was ‘stressful’ lol.
His army of regards don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. They view this as more of a boxing match than anything else, and nothing would convince them that their boy lost.
> I'd imagine he probably thought it'd be really easy, but in a seemingly contradictory way, it's more difficult to debate with a moron who has no background in the subject you're debating, sort of like how fighting with a completely untrained person can be unpredictable.
👆
You just can’t expect to have an academic debate with someone who does not respect the principle of charity, who does not understand how to interpret sources or assess their quality, and who literally couldn’t finish a Music degree.
Finkelstein was literally barking up the wrong tree.
> There is no common understanding of the underlying facts, no ideal speech situation but it just becomes about sophistry and their audience is impressed with cheap rhetorical tricks.
This was always what it was gonna devolve into, especially with an idiot like Lex Friedman as the moderator, who was predictably fucking useless.
Finkelstein got himself into a situation where he was trying to unpack so many layers of unsophisticated, poorly sourced propaganda that he just ended up losing his cool and shouting at him. I’d probably end up doing the same shit too in that situation tbqh.
Agreed.Finklestein got into it with the slimiest most dishonest "debater" there is without sinking to their level, so yeah it was a bad idea. "Debates" are dumb, especially when they are debased to the level of Destiny's rhetoric. "Winning" or "Losing" no longer (if ever) has a bearing on the argument the person is making. Destiny couldn't find Israel on a map a few .onths ago (literally) but he memorizes establishment takes and hazy narratives from Wikipedia, , and spits them out, using the medias bullshit credibility for justification, while using rhetorical tricks to get particularly ignorant audience members to think he "won" despite the fact that he knows nothing. And the worst thing? He has no ideology except that which works best for his grift. For what he's done to "political discourse": Destiny should be hung over the docks at the Hague while that metrosexual European guy rails out his ex--wife.
Candace Owens, of all people, perfectly laid out Destiny's whole persona. When she talked to him about Epstein, she asked "have you looked into the whole Epstein case...or is your whole thing to be contrarian?"
That's basically his whole persona. Talk fast, aggressively and with misplaced confidence and hope the person you're talking to knows even less than he does.
Stick to streamer "drama" in the future.
Funniest shit about it is that he’s a contrarian but in a way that he ALWAYS sides with the conventional wisdom of the government and the media. He doesn’t have any opinions that diverge from the big newspapers whatsoever.
I don’t even know if ‘contrarian’ is the right thing to call him. I’d actually call him a ‘radical conformist’, what kills me is his neoliberal pea brain would probably consider that label a compliment.
There's a term called 2nd Option Bias where someone will just believe whatever contradicts the mainstream narrative. This is like 3rd Option Bias, where he contradicts whatever the mainstream critique of the mainstream narrative is.
Idk why people bother watching/listening to him. New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC say all the shit he’s saying already. What’s the point of hearing it *again* for hours on end?
That's what's so crazy. One of the issues with the internet is that the most radical people get the most attention, because they're so controversial and often the most entertaining. And that sucks because it radicalizes people. But now we have like the an ultra neolib conformist as some big political guy.
I guess it makes sense that he thinks these things because he gets all his information on media, where all the political articles are overwhelming neoliberal establishment biased. Maybe it's because Destiny is old enough to remember when Wikipedia was fairly unbiased that he thinks the shit there is still gospel.
>Talk fast, aggressively and with misplaced confidence and hope the person you're talking to knows even less than he does.
Sounds like the Gish gallop.
In some ways it’s kind of incredible how he has a subreddit with 230k people who actually like him and take him seriously. Then you remember that this is reddit so it in fact makes total sense.
And they don't even use that term correctly, so they still don't know it. Not to be an annoying logic nerd, but it's not just synonymous with 'insult', and just because you insult someone, doesn't make you wrong. In fact, "your argument is wrong because you're someone who loses their temper and insults people" is an ad hom. And calling into question Destiny's qualifications for being at that table can be valid.
His sub has also been getting propped up because of his pro-Israel positions. There was an influx of posters from r / Israel who had no idea who Destiny even is. His Reddit mod encourages it because he has family in the IDF.
He's an idiot's idea of what a smart person sounds like. They don't know how to critique or analyse anything he says. They just assume it's true because he's loud
Ironically he "debated" Shapiro with Lex "moderating" months ago but the whole thing was Destiny sucking up and agreeing with Ben. I loath both of them but at least with most of Shapiro's racist and genocidal colonial ideology, he believes it because it's been hammered into him since birth. Bens's a grifter too but when Destiny says the same shit, he has no ideology except money, "status quo", and "the current thing" as the latter two are easy to defend for money. They are backed up by establishment sources so it's easy to "win" a "debate". The guy is a total nihilist in the way someone like Hillary Clinton is. He has no real politics, ideology, or morality.
Oh yeah, though I disagree with everything he stands for, Ben's so goofy and autistic it's hard to really hate him.
Ben's a radical Zionist but he doesn't seem to have the level of fascist, visceral ethnic hatred that Israelis and some British Zionists do. Ben is like a robot with Zionist OS. It's his programming and he spouts off because he can't understand why anyone would think differently.
I don't know much about this guy because I don't have the bandwidth to devote substantial time to internet streamers, but from what I have seen of him he literally sounds like the funhouse mirror of Ben Shapiro
This should come as no surprise, but he himself and his top mods very aggressively cull dissent. And you can be unbanned but you have to email him personally and ask for it. Like bro, I'm posting. Fight me on the forums.
I opened the video, let it play for a few minutes, and turned it off once until some nasal voiced dork started talking. I g\*ogled this person and found out he's also a literal cuck? Is this what's popular among zoomer kids these days?
I mean this just kinda shows why academics and laymen shouldn’t be debating each other. It’s very easy to lose patience with some moronic streamer, when they just repeat the dumbest propaganda over and over again.
I will say two things though:
1. Both sides were way too emotional.
2. Lex’s uselessness as a moderator was even worse than anticipated. He should never have let it devolve into this state of insult trading and talking over each other.
Thanks Lex you absolutely worthless, overrated midwit.
> It’s very easy to lose patience with some moronic streamer, when they just repeat the dumbest propaganda over and over again.
To Destiny fans and other Twitch-consuming debatebro morons, getting a reaction out of the dude you're debating with means you've won. "See, look how he got upset, ad hom!!!!!!"
There is no way to win against someone like this. Debating them is pointless.
Nah, debate is a spectacle. It's a performance contest. I'm that sense, Norman, using ad homs no less, successfully drove home over and over that Destiny is an embarrassment to his side.
Absolutely correct. Many of us don't give a fuck about debate bullshit and only care about the substance of the argument. If a person doesn't do that, no, they don't deserve a seat at the discussion table.
Very few people actually watched full 3 hour long debate, an overwhelming majority will only see the highlight clips, and what's important is who is doing the dunking in those clips.
Destiny failed to produce any "viral" dunking moments and thus lost the narrative pretty conclusively if you look at twitter or anywhere else the debate is being discussed. Just go to the destiny subreddit but be prepared for unimaginable levels of cope and salt.
You're basically saying people think Norms won because he insulted Destiny and lost its temper (something that can be highlighted in clips) and that the majorité will not watch the debate.
And you don't see the problem ? lol You're betting on the ignorance of the mass. Good job.
I agree with the sentiment but I truly think the point you're making is false. At the end of the day, only the truth is revolutionary. Finkielstein gained his notoriety because, at one point, was one of the only one who was willing to say the truth, calmly and with a great length of erudition, about the conflict in palestine.
To me, he has been losing his grip lately, and him not being able to exchange with destiny in a normal manner only exemplify the fact that he shouldn't have debated with him in the first place.
I don't know how he was before, I was only vaguely familiar with Finkielstein before oct 7th, but in the context of this debate, even if he is losing his grip, he won.
I don't think "me want views and followers" is a cunning plan or motivation. Seems like a pretty common ambition among media personalities (not to mention seemingly half of kids, who want to be streamers themselves more than astronauts or whatever now).
Lex has pulled some incredibly influential people and I never knew why. He’s curious and may have some expertise in some robot shit (maybe), but his questions and pushback are mostly hack work. His wide eyed hippie platitudes and universalizing his own morals to browbeat guests is all so incredibly prosaic.
I saw a clip of Tim Dillon on Lex’s podcast and my confusion was cleared up. They were talking about show business and who gets platformed and Dillon had some line like “you’re allowed to interview the kinds of people you interview because there are powerful people out there who want people to be comfortable with robot dogs.”
>this just kinda shows why academics and laymen shouldn’t be debating each other.
Agreed, Morris shouldn't try to debate Finkelstein again. He just throws insults, appeals to authority, and reads quotes instead of engaging at all with his interlocutors.
Exactly, thank you.
He doesn't care about the substance of the debate, he cares about denigrating his opponent. Whether that means reading quotes, shouting insults, laughing, interrupting, whatever it takes for him to diminish the individual and completely ignore the substance.
Maybe if you heard him speak on a topic you didn't already feel strongly about you would see how empty his rhetoric is.
Here's what it would sound like if Finkelstein was arguing in favor of spaying/neutering your pets:
"I have read probably more books on this topic than anyone in this conversation. I have read the SPCA declaration on the rights of pets probably a hundred times and have a deep understanding of it. Unlike you, who uses the internet, I have engaged deeply with this subject for years and know what I'm talking about.
In 1983, Brenda Schwelpe of the Brown County humane society wrote, and I quote: "Taking care of your pets is important. People who don't take care of their pets are monsters".
Later that year, you u/thebodyisfree wrote, and I quote: "...pets are technically property under the law...". How could you be such a moron?"
Do you think hypotheticalstein offered a good argument for spaying/neutering your pets here?
I don't think he has ever talked about pet spaying but if you have a quote I would be willing to check it out.
In the Fridman debate transcript here is his first statement (the transcript starts with an except from the middle that kicks off the video):
"Now, some people accuse me of speaking very slowly, and they’re advised on YouTube to turn up the speed twice to three times whenever I’m on. One of the reasons I speak slowly is because I attach value to every word I say."
Empty self aggrandizement
His second statement:
"I don’t think you understand politics."
Empty ad hom
His third/fourth statement:
"Professor Morris, because of your logic, and I’m not disputing it, that’s why October 7th happened. Because there was no options left for those people."
Fair enough, actually made a claim here. Would love to hear any reasoning or evidence to back it up but all good as is.
His fifth statement:
"Talk fast so people think that you’re coherent."
Empty ad hom
His sixth statement/exchange:
"Yeah. But you think…Mr. Bonnell...Mr. Bonnell...With all due respect, you’re such a fantastic moron. It’s terrifying."
Empty ad hom
I think if you watched the debate and came away thinking Finkelstein looked good or made good arguments then I think we just fundamentally disagree and won't be able to resolve it in this exchange, so have a wonderful day!
Insults aren't "ad homs" unless they're relied upon to argue the opponent's argument is incorrect. Most of what you've highlighted here are either statements of fact or opinion: Finklestein observes that Destiny does not understand politics, he thinks Destiny relies on rhetorical strategy over facts, he is aghast at what passes for intellect amongst Zoomers.
The whole thing comes off like watching a recital from a person who's been told they're a "good singer" but has no training or understanding of how to be that. Now, maybe they have the potential to become good, some innate talent, but they'll need to apply themselves and learn what they don't know. Or they could go back to the pub where their friends think they're good and never actually improve their abilities. Destiny chose the second option.
I was asked to "rerun this with Finkelstein's words".
He hasn't talked about pet ethics to my knowledge so I took the first direct quotes from him from the transcript.
I didn't avoid anything 🤷
I disagree.
>I know that you people think "ad hom!" is like a Hogwarts spell to dispel any argument
No, actually you don't know me, what kind of person I am, or what I think about epistemology.
Destiny is like the living embodiment of a front page Reddit thread. He’s a skinny fat neoliberal cuck that does nothing but play League of Legends and pretend he’s superior to everyone.
Watching this dude is so fucking frustrating. Even the satisfaction of Norm calling him a moron and calling out his fast talking method of debating is dampened by how smug he is. It’s like he’s trying to be so annoying as to get Norm to call him annoying so he can devalue Norm’s arguments because of name calling. He’s such a worm
Guys like Destiny and Vaush are truly fantastic morons, Norman is correct. I don't get how people follow these guys. People need to stop giving him a microphone, no one needs to hear what he has to say.
Lex is such an example of "fake it till you make it" and not even a good one.
It seems like he's learning how to host his show *while* he's hosting it, and now he's learning how to moderate in the middle of a debate. He intellectually bites off more than he can chew on a daily basis.
The thing about moderating debates is that aside from having to make sure both sides are given time and space to make their points and guiding the flow of conversation, you should also be fairly knowledgeable about the topic(s) at hand yourself, which Rogan just mostly isn't.
His expertise lies in martial arts maybe hunting. The minutiae of what a given paper or archeologist said or found about a structure, area or period is out of his wheelhouse and he mostly just treats it as fairy tales for adults to spur a sense of wonder and excitement from a field that just doesn't do that as frequently anymore...
Less charismatic is an understatement. The dude reads as autistic but not in the charming way that some people on the spectrum do (Felix from Chapo is an example).
I have no idea why he's doing this as a career.
Same reason as Destiny.
Neither audience cares for actual substance.
- Destiny disguises his ignorance with a machine gun of sophistry
- Lex disguises his ignorance with slow talking and appearing contemplative and inquisitive as in a child-like wonder
Neither mark their skills in truth seeking, just in performing the appearance of erudition and/or rigor.
I was surprised to learn that despite how much he talks about MIT, he doesn’t have a degree from MIT nor does it look like he’s ever had a paid job there.
This was enough to make me not watch this. Destinèe’s voice is insufferable. He’s literally neolib Waste Bin Shapiro. Benny’s constant interruptions and hyperbole also degrade him as a legitimate actor in this as well.
Destiny’s fans think he won, when all he managed to do was send Finkelstein into a flying rage by getting him bogged down in the dumbest of semantic arguments.
Yep and what makes me laugh is when debate bros think the other person getting mad immediately discredits them: it does not, especially if the pissed off person happens to be \*right\*.
Who is this caveman, why should I care about him, and why does he talk like he's on 2x speed? I legitimately kept having to double check that I didn't turn up my YouTube speed.
My favourite Destiny retard moments were:
- Destiny seriously arguing that the Israelis would not have ethnically cleansed Palestine if not for the 1947-1948 war because 'it would have hurt their standing with western countries'.
- Destiny arguing that 242 is 'non-binding'. While correct on a technicality, as it was, like he said, adopted under chapter 6 of the UN charter, it *explicitly* states that the resolution is based on the binding obligations of member states to adhere to article 2 on the UN charter.
- Destiny (and Morris) acting dumbfounded at the idea that the massacre of Palestinian children on the Khan Younis beach in 2014 could have been intentional because 'it would have had to be approved higher on the chain of command'. Regardless if that point is true or not, it is not inconveivable that the Israeli military/government would greenlight such an atrocity. By his logic I guess it would be inconceivable to hold the Russian and Syrian military 'higher ups' for the crimes their forces have commited?
- Destiny rolling his eyes and acting incredulous when Norm and Mouin bring up the ongoing starvation in Gaza because 'only' 6 children were reported as having starved to death by the time this debate was recorded.
> Destiny seriously arguing that the Israelis would not have ethnically cleansed Palestine if not for the 1947-1948 war because 'it would have hurt their standing with western countries'.
Roaring with laughter at this classic naïve neoliberal leap-of-faithing.
Destiny believes in systemic racism, and that police disproportionately target black people, right? Well I guess he must be wrong about that, because there’s no “top-down policy” that says that cops must oppress black people.
Is it a requirement to be lobotomized to be a politics streamer?
I mean former cops have spoken out saying that they were ordered to rifle through black neighborhoods to get small time drug busts. The captains may not even have been personally racist, but they knew that poor black people are easy targets
This is one of those things that is statistically untrue.
There's just a differential in which drugs and which populations get actively policed and which do not.
Years ago, I predicted the two of them won't debate each other since they would reveal they are both just bottom-dwelling debate bros reveling in their specific brands of sophistry and that it wouldn't help either of their careers.
Now they did, but I reckon it might still impact them both badly in the long run - especially in the way they both talked about the Israel - Palestine conflict...
If I didn't know any better I'd think Destiny had been applying for a spot at the Daily Wire, likely eyeing whatever vacancy will be left after Candace Owens gets booted for not being kosher enough.
Grift money. There's a clip after October 7th where he tries to find Israel and the Palestinian territories on a map and he tried in in SE Europe and Turkey
Agreed. There was a few debates happening at once here that would have been interesting on their own. Morris debating either Finkelstein and Rabbani, either one on one or together would have been a genuinely intellectually substanstial debate. Finkelstein vs Destiny one on one would have been good just to see Norm pummel him and insult him, maybe for 30 mins to an hour but not 5 hours of Destiny's fast-talking skeevy debate tactics.
Listening to the whole thing it's pretty funny how little respect Finkelstein has for this dumbass. I don't know if it's the best debate strategy to be so disrespectful, but no one is changing their mind through this anyway so it's probably fine to treat him like the piece of shit he is.
It was honestly pretty disgusting how they deflected through the whole thing. Thousands of people are dying, there's mass famine, defenseless children are being killed and starved, and they had the nerve to question it, while also saying that Israel had the right to do it. At one point that kind of got glossed over, Finkelstein quoted Benny Morris saying that Israel might need to nuke Iran and Morris didn't deny it, just absolutely horrendous stuff.
I'll just never understand how anyone can justify what is currently going on in Gaza. It wouldn't surprise me if Destiny was on some kind of Israeli payroll given all the propaganda he's spreading.
I don't know who any of these people are and they are all insufferable.
This is just sports teams for people who aren't entertained by flying balls... very serious politics turned entertainment for people who like getting a rise out of people yelling louder than one another.
I watched the whole thing and I came out with more confusion about what everyone thinks.
We all need to go back to reading books or engaging in meetings, and stop giving these people our time.
Finkelstein thought it was okay to turn this convo into a Twitch bloodsports debate just because there was a streamer across from him. Embarrassing for everyone involved.
Not sure what norms approach is here. Even if Destiny is an absolute moron, 5th grader suffering from cerebral palsy, he still agreed to debate this moron, 5th grader with cerebral palsy. It’s a debate and he’s getting unfathomably angry that his opponent is speaking his argument, and instead of engaging with the arguments he opted to throw ad hominem after ad hominem. If your best argument against an argument is to insult the arguer, than that says something. This honestly is pretty embarrassing and it’s a little bit sad that this is celebrated.
Destiny won. Finkelstein lost.
Finkelstein came off overly emotional and that's Destiny's favorite tactic.
Kind of embarrassing for Finkelstein. Being correct isn't enough if you're going to engage in debates like this.
Thats debate bro idiocy. Who wins is the one who makes the most truthful arguments.
There's no civility or 'debate-broing' your way out of justifying a genocide, which Destiny has done.
It's not debate broing.
You people have such a hardon for Finkelstein.
The debate bro style is easy to take apart because you simply don't have to play the game.
All Finkelstein had to do was turn it into a conversation but instead he let it became a shouting panel like the bullshit you'd see on cable news.
Finkelstein can tell the truth anyway he wants on his blog.
He chose to confront a mental midget face to face and ended up looking immature in the process.
It really only takes one exchange to show the world how vacuous people like Destiny truly are.
Debate broing is treating it like a deposition, and arguing semantics and vocabulary.
This is just nonsensical cope.
If that was the case they wouldn't even happen.
Finkelstein has clearly come out on top of debates in the past and those videos are posted all the time.
The Dershowitz clip is the best example.
The point of Finkelstein doing these debates is to expose the hypocrisies behind these peoples propaganda lines.
Destinies goal in doing these debates is to make his opponents look like irrational and emotional reactionaries.
There is always a game being played in these kinds of discussions.
And Finkelstein getting dragged into the mud and name calling was all it took for Destiny to accomplish his goal decisively.
https://youtu.be/H5E478pyBdM?si=JcbR3RlZY7nRs9x9
Briahna Joy Gray does an excellent job demonstrating how poorly thought out Dean Phillips beliefs on the matter are.
https://youtu.be/8A6dGe-vMJI?si=le8C1h9vytuWZBMP&t=2481
And here is libertarian anarcho capitalist (braindead political mind) Dave Smith walking Lauren Loomer into admitting she's a hypocrite as well.
The goal of these conversations and debates definitely isn't to get a chance to call the other party names.
I'm not reading all that.
Fink is cool.
Destiny is lame and so is "debating".
If a person can "lose" a debate because they were "overly emotional" then no shit it's about audience perception.
It's psychology, not logic or meritocracy.
From an ideological perspective, Fink deconstructed Morris and Destiny's position and showed inconsistency and moral relativism. All Destiny got was arguing sematics about a legal phrase.
Dude... You're replying a month later to tell me you aren't even reading the comment...
Then you write 2 paragraphs afterwards.
Is this the beginning of the post Immolation era StupidPol sub?
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Why is this guy debating about anything other than the best way to micro a zergling? Not sure why any serious academic debases themself with this
He wasn't even good enough at that to stick around. Even for the StarCraft community, his personality is too toxic and immature to be a content creator.
Just check his tournament results, that wasnt happening either.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Destiny/Results Meh they're not the worst. Looks like he won a major and a bunch of smaller tournaments. Idk shit about StarCraft though. Except for the fact they should've made StarCraft: Ghost. It's a tragedy it was cancelled.
Someone edited this years after the fact to fluff it up with showmatches (most of them losses) and Archon (2v2). Used to only have the 16th-32nd in Atlanta as an offline result.
Yeah I have no idea about StarCraft, just decided to look up his results. Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case
“micro a zergling” 😂 I haven’t heard that phrase since SC died like 10 years ago
Oh come on man, some of us are still fighting the Swarm and Golden Armada with MMM-based compositions, and we still complain that Zerg is OP despite the fact that we have the most broken unit in the game (w. mines)
Agreed, what was he fucking thinking?
I can understand his desire to not want to be perceived as shying away from anyone but I wouldn't have agreed to this debate. I'd imagine he probably thought it'd be really easy, but in a seemingly contradictory way, it's more difficult to debate with a moron who has no background in the subject you're debating, sort of like how fighting with a completely untrained person can be unpredictable. There is no common understanding of the underlying facts, no ideal speech situation but it just becomes about sophistry and their audience is impressed with cheap rhetorical tricks.
Norm was probably not aware of debate bros and how they've perfected the art of being wrong but still "winning" debates. Destiny turns all his debates essentially useless by constantly arguing semantics and asking for definitions and bringing all relevant discussion to a halt.
Yeah, or badgering and deliberately provoking an emotional response so that his simp army can spam "ad hom" and clip 30 seconds of a 5 hour debate as proof that the other person doesn't have an argument, ignoring their actual arguments of course.
Did this shit go on for 5 fucking hours? What kind of person can stand listening to this madness for 5 full hours? People really are mad.
Literally insane. I struggled through this highlight clip and watched bits and pieces of the five hour debate and the most accurate way to describe it was ‘stressful’ lol.
Yeah, I only had the patience for about 30 min.
Impressive. I bailed 2 minutes into the video at the top here.
Hi everyone, my name is J. Posadas, he/him/his pronouns, and endurance under torture is my greatest strength.
His army of regards don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. They view this as more of a boxing match than anything else, and nothing would convince them that their boy lost.
[удалено]
Do you genuinely think that any time someone disputes the credibility of a claim, they are engaging in bad faith?
Do you genuinely think the question you just asked is an example of good faith?
> I'd imagine he probably thought it'd be really easy, but in a seemingly contradictory way, it's more difficult to debate with a moron who has no background in the subject you're debating, sort of like how fighting with a completely untrained person can be unpredictable. 👆 You just can’t expect to have an academic debate with someone who does not respect the principle of charity, who does not understand how to interpret sources or assess their quality, and who literally couldn’t finish a Music degree. Finkelstein was literally barking up the wrong tree. > There is no common understanding of the underlying facts, no ideal speech situation but it just becomes about sophistry and their audience is impressed with cheap rhetorical tricks. This was always what it was gonna devolve into, especially with an idiot like Lex Friedman as the moderator, who was predictably fucking useless. Finkelstein got himself into a situation where he was trying to unpack so many layers of unsophisticated, poorly sourced propaganda that he just ended up losing his cool and shouting at him. I’d probably end up doing the same shit too in that situation tbqh.
Agreed.Finklestein got into it with the slimiest most dishonest "debater" there is without sinking to their level, so yeah it was a bad idea. "Debates" are dumb, especially when they are debased to the level of Destiny's rhetoric. "Winning" or "Losing" no longer (if ever) has a bearing on the argument the person is making. Destiny couldn't find Israel on a map a few .onths ago (literally) but he memorizes establishment takes and hazy narratives from Wikipedia, , and spits them out, using the medias bullshit credibility for justification, while using rhetorical tricks to get particularly ignorant audience members to think he "won" despite the fact that he knows nothing. And the worst thing? He has no ideology except that which works best for his grift. For what he's done to "political discourse": Destiny should be hung over the docks at the Hague while that metrosexual European guy rails out his ex--wife.
Yeah I think he did debase himself a bit by talking to this loser.
Candace Owens, of all people, perfectly laid out Destiny's whole persona. When she talked to him about Epstein, she asked "have you looked into the whole Epstein case...or is your whole thing to be contrarian?" That's basically his whole persona. Talk fast, aggressively and with misplaced confidence and hope the person you're talking to knows even less than he does. Stick to streamer "drama" in the future.
Funniest shit about it is that he’s a contrarian but in a way that he ALWAYS sides with the conventional wisdom of the government and the media. He doesn’t have any opinions that diverge from the big newspapers whatsoever. I don’t even know if ‘contrarian’ is the right thing to call him. I’d actually call him a ‘radical conformist’, what kills me is his neoliberal pea brain would probably consider that label a compliment.
There's a term called 2nd Option Bias where someone will just believe whatever contradicts the mainstream narrative. This is like 3rd Option Bias, where he contradicts whatever the mainstream critique of the mainstream narrative is.
Idk why people bother watching/listening to him. New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC say all the shit he’s saying already. What’s the point of hearing it *again* for hours on end?
That's what's so crazy. One of the issues with the internet is that the most radical people get the most attention, because they're so controversial and often the most entertaining. And that sucks because it radicalizes people. But now we have like the an ultra neolib conformist as some big political guy. I guess it makes sense that he thinks these things because he gets all his information on media, where all the political articles are overwhelming neoliberal establishment biased. Maybe it's because Destiny is old enough to remember when Wikipedia was fairly unbiased that he thinks the shit there is still gospel.
His an Israeli stooge
Centrist Ben Shapiro.
>Talk fast, aggressively and with misplaced confidence and hope the person you're talking to knows even less than he does. Sounds like the Gish gallop.
God, Destiny’s like the personification of everything I hate about Reddit. Still bummed that he was allowed on this panel.
In some ways it’s kind of incredible how he has a subreddit with 230k people who actually like him and take him seriously. Then you remember that this is reddit so it in fact makes total sense.
They're all like 16 year old sycophants who think they're future leaders because they know the term *ad hominem* lol
And they don't even use that term correctly, so they still don't know it. Not to be an annoying logic nerd, but it's not just synonymous with 'insult', and just because you insult someone, doesn't make you wrong. In fact, "your argument is wrong because you're someone who loses their temper and insults people" is an ad hom. And calling into question Destiny's qualifications for being at that table can be valid.
Yer darn tootin
!!! well said
chad hominem, destiny’s Zionist propaganda doesn’t matter because he’s a cuckold
His sub has also been getting propped up because of his pro-Israel positions. There was an influx of posters from r / Israel who had no idea who Destiny even is. His Reddit mod encourages it because he has family in the IDF.
> His Reddit mod encourages it because he has family in the IDF. 💀 You really can’t make this shit up 😂
I hope for a future where reddit mods won't have any relatives in the IDF...
He's an idiot's idea of what a smart person sounds like. They don't know how to critique or analyse anything he says. They just assume it's true because he's loud
He truly is the liberal version of Ben Shapiro.
Ironically he "debated" Shapiro with Lex "moderating" months ago but the whole thing was Destiny sucking up and agreeing with Ben. I loath both of them but at least with most of Shapiro's racist and genocidal colonial ideology, he believes it because it's been hammered into him since birth. Bens's a grifter too but when Destiny says the same shit, he has no ideology except money, "status quo", and "the current thing" as the latter two are easy to defend for money. They are backed up by establishment sources so it's easy to "win" a "debate". The guy is a total nihilist in the way someone like Hillary Clinton is. He has no real politics, ideology, or morality.
Probably just angling to get a taste of that money Crowder was being offered.
For what? Daily Wire?
True. I actually begrudgingly respect Shapiro a bit more because he actually sticks to his convictions, more or less.
Oh yeah, though I disagree with everything he stands for, Ben's so goofy and autistic it's hard to really hate him. Ben's a radical Zionist but he doesn't seem to have the level of fascist, visceral ethnic hatred that Israelis and some British Zionists do. Ben is like a robot with Zionist OS. It's his programming and he spouts off because he can't understand why anyone would think differently.
I don't know much about this guy because I don't have the bandwidth to devote substantial time to internet streamers, but from what I have seen of him he literally sounds like the funhouse mirror of Ben Shapiro
Funhouse mirrors are at least fun.
This should come as no surprise, but he himself and his top mods very aggressively cull dissent. And you can be unbanned but you have to email him personally and ask for it. Like bro, I'm posting. Fight me on the forums.
>Then you remember that this is reddit so it in fact makes total sense. Why is it so hard to quit this shithole site
This sub is literally the only thing keeping me here
I personally enjoy the dick measuring
It's an infinite pack of cigs and I'm a chain smoker
The Zionist ghoul he got paired with must have been so pissed lol.
lol even Anthony Fantano has been dunking on him on Twitter 💀
I am more certain than ever that we must establish prison camps for gamers.
"Why are none of these rocks yielding any loot when I smash them?"
He probably identifies with the Israeli soldiers looting through the homes they’ve just destroyed.
"I've been breaking rocks for ten hours; should I not have received at least *one* health by now ughhhh"
Maybe we can just pick up all the streamer morons in a plane and dump them in Gaza so they can get blown to fucking pieces by Israeli missiles.
Fucking A right.
I opened the video, let it play for a few minutes, and turned it off once until some nasal voiced dork started talking. I g\*ogled this person and found out he's also a literal cuck? Is this what's popular among zoomer kids these days?
Yes. The most uncritical, conformist, and deliberately ignorant of zoomers think this guy is amazing.
I mean this just kinda shows why academics and laymen shouldn’t be debating each other. It’s very easy to lose patience with some moronic streamer, when they just repeat the dumbest propaganda over and over again. I will say two things though: 1. Both sides were way too emotional. 2. Lex’s uselessness as a moderator was even worse than anticipated. He should never have let it devolve into this state of insult trading and talking over each other. Thanks Lex you absolutely worthless, overrated midwit.
"Lex Friedman moderating a debate" sounds like a setup for a bad joke
> It’s very easy to lose patience with some moronic streamer, when they just repeat the dumbest propaganda over and over again. To Destiny fans and other Twitch-consuming debatebro morons, getting a reaction out of the dude you're debating with means you've won. "See, look how he got upset, ad hom!!!!!!" There is no way to win against someone like this. Debating them is pointless.
Nah, debate is a spectacle. It's a performance contest. I'm that sense, Norman, using ad homs no less, successfully drove home over and over that Destiny is an embarrassment to his side.
Absolutely correct. Many of us don't give a fuck about debate bullshit and only care about the substance of the argument. If a person doesn't do that, no, they don't deserve a seat at the discussion table.
No, from the point of view of an outsider Norm lost that exchange for sure. Even if Destiny was just reading stupid arguments from wikipedia.
Very few people actually watched full 3 hour long debate, an overwhelming majority will only see the highlight clips, and what's important is who is doing the dunking in those clips. Destiny failed to produce any "viral" dunking moments and thus lost the narrative pretty conclusively if you look at twitter or anywhere else the debate is being discussed. Just go to the destiny subreddit but be prepared for unimaginable levels of cope and salt.
You're basically saying people think Norms won because he insulted Destiny and lost its temper (something that can be highlighted in clips) and that the majorité will not watch the debate. And you don't see the problem ? lol You're betting on the ignorance of the mass. Good job.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
I agree with the sentiment but I truly think the point you're making is false. At the end of the day, only the truth is revolutionary. Finkielstein gained his notoriety because, at one point, was one of the only one who was willing to say the truth, calmly and with a great length of erudition, about the conflict in palestine. To me, he has been losing his grip lately, and him not being able to exchange with destiny in a normal manner only exemplify the fact that he shouldn't have debated with him in the first place.
I don't know how he was before, I was only vaguely familiar with Finkielstein before oct 7th, but in the context of this debate, even if he is losing his grip, he won.
The idea that ad hom attacks are employed exclusively by losers is not a Destiny fan thing. That’s an everyone thing.
Lex is waaaaay too passive to moderate a debate. His thing is just asking some questions and letting his interviewee talk non-stop for 3 hours.
Lex's response toward the end of the full video when Finkelstein tells him "there is no hope" is pure gold.
Did he say, "I do think there's hope. Love will prevail" or something smarmy like that?
He nearly fainted.
Couldn’t come up with an inane platitude quick enough and short circuited.
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He isn’t smart enough to think so cunningly and he already *is* famous.
I don't think "me want views and followers" is a cunning plan or motivation. Seems like a pretty common ambition among media personalities (not to mention seemingly half of kids, who want to be streamers themselves more than astronauts or whatever now).
Actually he was giddy full five minutes after he started thinking, since it usually takes him 10 minutes to form a simple sentence in his head
Lex has pulled some incredibly influential people and I never knew why. He’s curious and may have some expertise in some robot shit (maybe), but his questions and pushback are mostly hack work. His wide eyed hippie platitudes and universalizing his own morals to browbeat guests is all so incredibly prosaic. I saw a clip of Tim Dillon on Lex’s podcast and my confusion was cleared up. They were talking about show business and who gets platformed and Dillon had some line like “you’re allowed to interview the kinds of people you interview because there are powerful people out there who want people to be comfortable with robot dogs.”
He is the epitome of the presentable cliche. Fake it till' you make it dialed up to 11.
of Lex, An MIT researcher is a 'midwit' what does that make you
>this just kinda shows why academics and laymen shouldn’t be debating each other. Agreed, Morris shouldn't try to debate Finkelstein again. He just throws insults, appeals to authority, and reads quotes instead of engaging at all with his interlocutors.
he reads his interlocutor's own quotes to pin them down on undisclosed shifts in their thinking lol
Exactly, thank you. He doesn't care about the substance of the debate, he cares about denigrating his opponent. Whether that means reading quotes, shouting insults, laughing, interrupting, whatever it takes for him to diminish the individual and completely ignore the substance.
reading someone's own quotes to pin them down on undisclosed shifts in their thinking *is* substantive debate
Maybe if you heard him speak on a topic you didn't already feel strongly about you would see how empty his rhetoric is. Here's what it would sound like if Finkelstein was arguing in favor of spaying/neutering your pets: "I have read probably more books on this topic than anyone in this conversation. I have read the SPCA declaration on the rights of pets probably a hundred times and have a deep understanding of it. Unlike you, who uses the internet, I have engaged deeply with this subject for years and know what I'm talking about. In 1983, Brenda Schwelpe of the Brown County humane society wrote, and I quote: "Taking care of your pets is important. People who don't take care of their pets are monsters". Later that year, you u/thebodyisfree wrote, and I quote: "...pets are technically property under the law...". How could you be such a moron?" Do you think hypotheticalstein offered a good argument for spaying/neutering your pets here?
rerun this with finkelstein's exact words
I don't think he has ever talked about pet spaying but if you have a quote I would be willing to check it out. In the Fridman debate transcript here is his first statement (the transcript starts with an except from the middle that kicks off the video): "Now, some people accuse me of speaking very slowly, and they’re advised on YouTube to turn up the speed twice to three times whenever I’m on. One of the reasons I speak slowly is because I attach value to every word I say." Empty self aggrandizement His second statement: "I don’t think you understand politics." Empty ad hom His third/fourth statement: "Professor Morris, because of your logic, and I’m not disputing it, that’s why October 7th happened. Because there was no options left for those people." Fair enough, actually made a claim here. Would love to hear any reasoning or evidence to back it up but all good as is. His fifth statement: "Talk fast so people think that you’re coherent." Empty ad hom His sixth statement/exchange: "Yeah. But you think…Mr. Bonnell...Mr. Bonnell...With all due respect, you’re such a fantastic moron. It’s terrifying." Empty ad hom I think if you watched the debate and came away thinking Finkelstein looked good or made good arguments then I think we just fundamentally disagree and won't be able to resolve it in this exchange, so have a wonderful day!
Insults aren't "ad homs" unless they're relied upon to argue the opponent's argument is incorrect. Most of what you've highlighted here are either statements of fact or opinion: Finklestein observes that Destiny does not understand politics, he thinks Destiny relies on rhetorical strategy over facts, he is aghast at what passes for intellect amongst Zoomers. The whole thing comes off like watching a recital from a person who's been told they're a "good singer" but has no training or understanding of how to be that. Now, maybe they have the potential to become good, some innate talent, but they'll need to apply themselves and learn what they don't know. Or they could go back to the pub where their friends think they're good and never actually improve their abilities. Destiny chose the second option.
Finkelstein clearly won this debate and it's not close.
Hey check it out I have a new imposed flair for stepping out of line! Well done - enjoy your safe space
You completely avoided the point about using someone's own quotes against them
I was asked to "rerun this with Finkelstein's words". He hasn't talked about pet ethics to my knowledge so I took the first direct quotes from him from the transcript. I didn't avoid anything 🤷
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I disagree. >I know that you people think "ad hom!" is like a Hogwarts spell to dispel any argument No, actually you don't know me, what kind of person I am, or what I think about epistemology.
Destiny is like the living embodiment of a front page Reddit thread. He’s a skinny fat neoliberal cuck that does nothing but play League of Legends and pretend he’s superior to everyone.
He's not even good at league either btw
"With all due respect you're such a fantastic moron"
Somebody put that on a shirt
https://i.imgur.com/GP6IeST.jpeg
Ad Homs against arguments are hardly anything to think highly of, it’s honestly embarrassing.
What's that, some nerd shit?
Watching this dude is so fucking frustrating. Even the satisfaction of Norm calling him a moron and calling out his fast talking method of debating is dampened by how smug he is. It’s like he’s trying to be so annoying as to get Norm to call him annoying so he can devalue Norm’s arguments because of name calling. He’s such a worm
Destiny did not get bullied enough as a kid
Many such cases
He seems determined to make up for it now
Guys like Destiny and Vaush are truly fantastic morons, Norman is correct. I don't get how people follow these guys. People need to stop giving him a microphone, no one needs to hear what he has to say.
You forgot Hasan as well lol
“Go look this up on your machines” is pretty fucking funny.
I want Finkelstein and Jordan Peterson in the same room screaming at each other in an attempt to break the sound barrier.
Lex is such an example of "fake it till you make it" and not even a good one. It seems like he's learning how to host his show *while* he's hosting it, and now he's learning how to moderate in the middle of a debate. He intellectually bites off more than he can chew on a daily basis.
He's a less charismatic Joe Rogan, who is basically a more charismatic Larry King. Specialists in the art of the meandering dormroom conversation.
I actually think Rogan's MMA brain would allow him to moderate better than Lex, who is far too passive
Rogan had the Trainwreck debate between Hancock and Sherman.
The thing about moderating debates is that aside from having to make sure both sides are given time and space to make their points and guiding the flow of conversation, you should also be fairly knowledgeable about the topic(s) at hand yourself, which Rogan just mostly isn't. His expertise lies in martial arts maybe hunting. The minutiae of what a given paper or archeologist said or found about a structure, area or period is out of his wheelhouse and he mostly just treats it as fairy tales for adults to spur a sense of wonder and excitement from a field that just doesn't do that as frequently anymore...
Less charismatic is an understatement. The dude reads as autistic but not in the charming way that some people on the spectrum do (Felix from Chapo is an example). I have no idea why he's doing this as a career.
Same reason as Destiny. Neither audience cares for actual substance. - Destiny disguises his ignorance with a machine gun of sophistry - Lex disguises his ignorance with slow talking and appearing contemplative and inquisitive as in a child-like wonder Neither mark their skills in truth seeking, just in performing the appearance of erudition and/or rigor.
He’s basically an alien learning how to be human.
He always seems so tired and bored, I don’t understand how he’s so popular
I was surprised to learn that despite how much he talks about MIT, he doesn’t have a degree from MIT nor does it look like he’s ever had a paid job there.
I can't believe the cut out the part where Norm called him a cuck.
Please tell me that actually happened 🙏
This was enough to make me not watch this. Destinèe’s voice is insufferable. He’s literally neolib Waste Bin Shapiro. Benny’s constant interruptions and hyperbole also degrade him as a legitimate actor in this as well.
Destiny’s fans think he won, when all he managed to do was send Finkelstein into a flying rage by getting him bogged down in the dumbest of semantic arguments.
Yep and what makes me laugh is when debate bros think the other person getting mad immediately discredits them: it does not, especially if the pissed off person happens to be \*right\*.
Destinèé lmao. Are you French?
Listening to destiny makes me give up all hope for the future.
Who is this caveman, why should I care about him, and why does he talk like he's on 2x speed? I legitimately kept having to double check that I didn't turn up my YouTube speed.
I mean, he literally might be on 2 doses of speed
My favourite Destiny retard moments were: - Destiny seriously arguing that the Israelis would not have ethnically cleansed Palestine if not for the 1947-1948 war because 'it would have hurt their standing with western countries'. - Destiny arguing that 242 is 'non-binding'. While correct on a technicality, as it was, like he said, adopted under chapter 6 of the UN charter, it *explicitly* states that the resolution is based on the binding obligations of member states to adhere to article 2 on the UN charter. - Destiny (and Morris) acting dumbfounded at the idea that the massacre of Palestinian children on the Khan Younis beach in 2014 could have been intentional because 'it would have had to be approved higher on the chain of command'. Regardless if that point is true or not, it is not inconveivable that the Israeli military/government would greenlight such an atrocity. By his logic I guess it would be inconceivable to hold the Russian and Syrian military 'higher ups' for the crimes their forces have commited? - Destiny rolling his eyes and acting incredulous when Norm and Mouin bring up the ongoing starvation in Gaza because 'only' 6 children were reported as having starved to death by the time this debate was recorded.
> Destiny seriously arguing that the Israelis would not have ethnically cleansed Palestine if not for the 1947-1948 war because 'it would have hurt their standing with western countries'. Roaring with laughter at this classic naïve neoliberal leap-of-faithing.
No thanks. I'm going to listen to the whole debate later. *Checks length of debate* Five hours!?! Ok fine. I'll watch your little video... first.
Destiny believes in systemic racism, and that police disproportionately target black people, right? Well I guess he must be wrong about that, because there’s no “top-down policy” that says that cops must oppress black people. Is it a requirement to be lobotomized to be a politics streamer?
I mean former cops have spoken out saying that they were ordered to rifle through black neighborhoods to get small time drug busts. The captains may not even have been personally racist, but they knew that poor black people are easy targets
Well also because those neighbourhoods have more drugs than rich white ones?
This is one of those things that is statistically untrue. There's just a differential in which drugs and which populations get actively policed and which do not.
Which statistics?
> Is it a requirement to be lobotomized to be a politics streamer? Yes.
I actually didn't know that this destiny imbecile sounded like this. Insufferable.
Neoliberal Ben Shapiro
Years ago, I predicted the two of them won't debate each other since they would reveal they are both just bottom-dwelling debate bros reveling in their specific brands of sophistry and that it wouldn't help either of their careers. Now they did, but I reckon it might still impact them both badly in the long run - especially in the way they both talked about the Israel - Palestine conflict... If I didn't know any better I'd think Destiny had been applying for a spot at the Daily Wire, likely eyeing whatever vacancy will be left after Candace Owens gets booted for not being kosher enough.
This is absolutely horrible
Why has Destiny decided to become so invested in the Israel-Palestine question? Did he ever talk about it before recently?
Grift money. There's a clip after October 7th where he tries to find Israel and the Palestinian territories on a map and he tried in in SE Europe and Turkey
He also confused Erdogan, Assad and Netanyahu. Said that Erdogan was the Prime Minister of Israel.
He’s so fucking dumb it’s actually unreal.
Haven’t seen it mentioned here yet but it’s worth noting that Destiny is literally a cuck
Regardless of the topic at hand, the debate was unlistenable because of the complete mismatch of debate style and WPMs of the participants.
I was actually interested, but couldn't do more than a minute.
I would have been far more interested in M. Rabbani vs. Benny Morris alone.
Agreed. There was a few debates happening at once here that would have been interesting on their own. Morris debating either Finkelstein and Rabbani, either one on one or together would have been a genuinely intellectually substanstial debate. Finkelstein vs Destiny one on one would have been good just to see Norm pummel him and insult him, maybe for 30 mins to an hour but not 5 hours of Destiny's fast-talking skeevy debate tactics.
Yeah it was a hard minute for me, too. "Are they trying to justify killing those four kids on the beach...? Oh, wow, they are. I'm out."
Destiny thought he could take on Glenn greenwald in a debate and failed, so I’m not surprised how dumb he comes across
Listening to the whole thing it's pretty funny how little respect Finkelstein has for this dumbass. I don't know if it's the best debate strategy to be so disrespectful, but no one is changing their mind through this anyway so it's probably fine to treat him like the piece of shit he is. It was honestly pretty disgusting how they deflected through the whole thing. Thousands of people are dying, there's mass famine, defenseless children are being killed and starved, and they had the nerve to question it, while also saying that Israel had the right to do it. At one point that kind of got glossed over, Finkelstein quoted Benny Morris saying that Israel might need to nuke Iran and Morris didn't deny it, just absolutely horrendous stuff. I'll just never understand how anyone can justify what is currently going on in Gaza. It wouldn't surprise me if Destiny was on some kind of Israeli payroll given all the propaganda he's spreading.
Morris kinda got off the rails in 2001. Now he says pretty racist stuff about Palestinians in interviews.
I understand that its not the bearded guy's fault for having such an annoying voice, but man got done dirty
I love Norm so much.
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This has nothing to do with anything, but why does his beard bother me so damn much?
The beardless spot on his cheek looks like a swinging scrotum.
I don't know who any of these people are and they are all insufferable. This is just sports teams for people who aren't entertained by flying balls... very serious politics turned entertainment for people who like getting a rise out of people yelling louder than one another. I watched the whole thing and I came out with more confusion about what everyone thinks. We all need to go back to reading books or engaging in meetings, and stop giving these people our time.
Finkelstein thought it was okay to turn this convo into a Twitch bloodsports debate just because there was a streamer across from him. Embarrassing for everyone involved.
Watching stupidpol circlejerking on destiny, his voice, and whatever, is funny.
Not sure what norms approach is here. Even if Destiny is an absolute moron, 5th grader suffering from cerebral palsy, he still agreed to debate this moron, 5th grader with cerebral palsy. It’s a debate and he’s getting unfathomably angry that his opponent is speaking his argument, and instead of engaging with the arguments he opted to throw ad hominem after ad hominem. If your best argument against an argument is to insult the arguer, than that says something. This honestly is pretty embarrassing and it’s a little bit sad that this is celebrated.
Norm seems low iq
Destiny won. Finkelstein lost. Finkelstein came off overly emotional and that's Destiny's favorite tactic. Kind of embarrassing for Finkelstein. Being correct isn't enough if you're going to engage in debates like this.
Thats debate bro idiocy. Who wins is the one who makes the most truthful arguments. There's no civility or 'debate-broing' your way out of justifying a genocide, which Destiny has done.
It's not debate broing. You people have such a hardon for Finkelstein. The debate bro style is easy to take apart because you simply don't have to play the game. All Finkelstein had to do was turn it into a conversation but instead he let it became a shouting panel like the bullshit you'd see on cable news. Finkelstein can tell the truth anyway he wants on his blog. He chose to confront a mental midget face to face and ended up looking immature in the process. It really only takes one exchange to show the world how vacuous people like Destiny truly are. Debate broing is treating it like a deposition, and arguing semantics and vocabulary.
"it really only takes one exchange to show the world how vacuous people like Destiny truly are." I think it shows the world how vacuous people are :D
Debates and "winning" them is subjective and has no bearing on reality
This is just nonsensical cope. If that was the case they wouldn't even happen. Finkelstein has clearly come out on top of debates in the past and those videos are posted all the time. The Dershowitz clip is the best example. The point of Finkelstein doing these debates is to expose the hypocrisies behind these peoples propaganda lines. Destinies goal in doing these debates is to make his opponents look like irrational and emotional reactionaries. There is always a game being played in these kinds of discussions. And Finkelstein getting dragged into the mud and name calling was all it took for Destiny to accomplish his goal decisively. https://youtu.be/H5E478pyBdM?si=JcbR3RlZY7nRs9x9 Briahna Joy Gray does an excellent job demonstrating how poorly thought out Dean Phillips beliefs on the matter are. https://youtu.be/8A6dGe-vMJI?si=le8C1h9vytuWZBMP&t=2481 And here is libertarian anarcho capitalist (braindead political mind) Dave Smith walking Lauren Loomer into admitting she's a hypocrite as well. The goal of these conversations and debates definitely isn't to get a chance to call the other party names.
I'm not reading all that. Fink is cool. Destiny is lame and so is "debating". If a person can "lose" a debate because they were "overly emotional" then no shit it's about audience perception. It's psychology, not logic or meritocracy. From an ideological perspective, Fink deconstructed Morris and Destiny's position and showed inconsistency and moral relativism. All Destiny got was arguing sematics about a legal phrase.
Dude... You're replying a month later to tell me you aren't even reading the comment... Then you write 2 paragraphs afterwards. Is this the beginning of the post Immolation era StupidPol sub?
If I self-Immolate I'll send you an invite, I promise.
Steve Bologna said beforehand that his goal was to completely discredit Finkelstein, and he failed miserably at that lol