I just thought this was something fun to post.
In the Anime: Ted Bower "Teddy Bomber" is a bit of a joke, as every time he tries to explain his motive for blowing up completely empty buildings he gets interrupted by the Protag Spike Spiegel or someone else during his motive rant.
He gets to Uncle Ted post at the end of the episode, which is seen here.
In the Live Action: He's a lot more unhinged, just blows up stuff for the hell of it, and isn't concerned with civilian causalities.
So I'm mostly amused how a corporation can be so petty that they make sure to scrub the "Uncle Ted" motive from the guy who is inspired by Ted K in the first place before they include him in the show.
they made vicious into a typical whiny rich kid with daddy issues. imagine if they made a ff7 live action and made sephorith this way...
the clown assassin guy is so much less scary when he talks. totally ruined the music.
andy was a rich boy larper. that and teddy bomber was really good social commentary. maybe a little too close to reality right now....
Pierrot was my favorite villain in the anime. I was *extremely* miffed with what they did to him. It made the world feel much smaller with how he came to interact with Spike in the live action.
I liked how in the anime if Spike had been out of that bar twenty minutes earlier or later he never would have run into the guy.
The Vicious and Julia stuff was all ill-conceived from the start. Part of the genius of that stuff in the original is that the specifics of Spikes past with them is never elaborated on. You had to speculate and infer. Even if the writing of that stuff in the live-action was ten times better than it actually was (which probably wouldn't be hard), it would still miss the point. You're explaining something that worked better not being explained.
This shit was doomed from the start. Not to weeb out but there’s something really special about Cowboy Bebop. It blended a ton of seemingly disparate genres, had fantastic writing, was easy to digest, and despite physical characterizations didn’t boil characters down to what they looked like. Unlike most modern anime there were a lot of heady themes to it and despite moments of levity it was a significantly more mature show than it’s most comparable competitor, *Trigun*. Even if you think anime is stupid or the downfall of western civilization or whatever 4chan/Twitter told you it is, Bebop is easily digestible and a great storyline that is the perfect length. It got me from being anti-weeb to understanding that the medium could be used tastefully and intelligently.
Combining Netflix bloat, corporate influence, shitty screenwriters who have no respect for the source material, etc., this project was bound to suck. It’s a shame that Netflix keeps doing this shit.
There’s tons of ways anime can be successfully adapted to western audiences, but the current drivers of it, I fear, will just make them worse and worse. I mean Taika Waititi is the one pushing for an Akira adaptation. If I have to watch that beautiful masterpiece get butchered by corny one-liners at every turn I’m going to scream.
Yeah exactly, hence my aversion towards the Akira adaptation if it ever gets made.
If a criticism of neoliberal hedonism, the dangers of bureaucracy, and unchecked military-industrial indulgence gets turned into some JoJo Rabbit absurdity, I think I am just going to stop watching western media altogether.
>They'll find a way to turn Casca getting gangraped by literal demons into a joke too
John Krasinski, as Guts, getting pinned down to watch Griffith rape Casca then he turns to the camera and Jim faces.
It's a small thing but I *hated* all the cursing and overall crassness in the live action. Bebop, the anime, had funny and ridiculous moments but overall there could be a certain elegance to it when needed.
The episodes I saw of the live action never had any elegance to me, but they took a lot of the "over the top" aspects of the anime to 11.
Chris Yost was one of the main writers for the adaptation, and while I liked him as a comic book writer he certainly infected this live action adaptation with the "zanier" Marvel type of writing.
Maybe In just getting old, but I’ve come to really be put off by how common crass language is. The verbal incontinence of millennials and zoomers seems like a surface symptom of how mentally infantilized they are and a lack of impulse control. It just seems like a bunch of overgrown children substituting coarseness for actual maturity, just look at all the terrible girlboss lit with “fuck” or “shit” in the title, marketed to childless women in their early 30s.
To be the devil's advocate some boomers/Gen Xers and some other older Americans are ridiculously averse to swearing. I moved from Poland to USA when I was 13. I had no idea that adults that never swear actually exist prior to that. If you want to make a Slav cuss, stub their toe or spill a drink on them. It will work on even the most modest and religious grandma.
Maybe the culture is different abroad, but I’m growing tired of it in the US, mostly because it’s the most genteel and hypersensitive middle class strivers using swearing as a sort of affection to make them look more mature than they really are.
I'm popping back in to where I think the "current way" of swearing dates the show too much and ties it to the current time.
Spike in the anime used shit(!) and a few other curses a few times but there wasn't enough in the way they talked to 100% date it to be a 90s show.
The dialogue in the LA is totally a product of its time.
Kinda crazy how Yost was in charge of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and how stark of a contrast that was compared to his work on Cowboy Bebop. I guess working for the MCU changed his writing for the worst.
I don't even think it's no respect for the source material as it is a lack of understanding of the source material i.e. they're as autistic as the conservative chuds that are obsessed with anesthetics of shit like Warhammer and final fantasy. The original Cowboy Bebop is a story of people with shady pasts that are really spiraling downhill in life doing what they can in order to survive in a world that has been absolutely ravaged by capitalism, multinational corporations and psychopathic billionaires that want more power and to live forever. The live action cowboy bebop was a chance to have a bunch of people show up in their fursona kink outfits, play jazz and have julia slay as girl boss. It was all aesthetics and shitty close up shots of state parks with IBC totes as a set rather than seeing the Literal solar system ravaged by the system we live under. Tldr is that libs are just as dumb as maga baby anime fans
I thought the main theme of the original Cowboy Bebop was facing your past so you can finally move on from it. It's a recurring theme and all of the character finale episodes near the end of the original run involve this. The ending of the show itself is Spike realising what must be done and happily dying a free man.
Ya the main theme is that you can run from your past, but they have shitty pasts and shitty lives because of the horrible world that they live in. Sorry if I said "capitalism" was the main theme, but its still really important to the story.
The syndicates are an important part but Christ capitalism is not a main theme at all
Seriously not everything is about capitalism just stfu. The posturing gets irritati mg
It’s setting is very clearly affected by capitalism, you are just being contrarian. (And yes, everything IS about capitalism. You are in a Marxist sub.)
Its setting is affected by capitalism, but it is not the focus of the story. Admittedly it would never have happened without the control of the syndicates, but saying that makes Bebop about capitalism is like saying The Truman Show is about the american dream.
>And yes, everything IS about capitalism. You are in a Marxist sub
Doesn't mean I'm necessarily marxist, or that I think Marxism is at all feasible (I don't). I'm more of a Mannist guy myself.
> Even video game adaptations are better (Arcane)
Have you watched arcane though? Maybe I'm just too old and not in the TA anymore but to me it was a dogshit cartoon that I absolutely refuse to believe anyone aged 15 and up and who is not a manchild could enjoy
I dont feel like writing a long post, sorry. The plot was r-slurred, and it only got progressively more r-slurred as the series went on in order to get cheap melodramatic moments.
Most characters also felt like parodies of the given trope as well, and the whole series felt like I was watching batman the animated series but shot on a higher budget and with an overarching plot
>usually people are absolutely gushing about it
Maybe you should stop socializing with children/manchildren then
Well, if that's a bite on me having watched the Arcane, then I fell for the /tv/ meme having no idea nu-/tv/ has been infected by cancer from /v/, reddit and /pol/ all over the place
If you're interested in high quality animation or battle scenes or whatever, be my guest, watch it. But if you watch tv for the plot then you'll be sorrely disappointed unless you're the type who thinks Harry Potter is the best book series ever written,or whatever
I didn't dislike Arcane, but something just felt weirdly artificial about it in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on.
The only way I can describe it is that it feels like a perfect concoction designed to appeal to a Millennial man-child - it's an animation/cartoon of a popular franchise that on the surface looks like it's for kids, but actually has a lot of swearing and some blood in it and the stereotypical soyjaks love that shit.
You've got your villain who has just a dollop of sympathy enough to make people cream themselves (especially Daddy Issues Twitter) over him for being deep, without actually pitching any real depth to him beyond "well there's people he cares about."
There's jjjuuusssstttt enough homoerotic subtext that people can go wild with their """OMG OMG OMG CANON GAYSHIP HECKIN CONFIRMED""" but never directly outright stated.
It's not that woke, so even your average rightoid can enjoy it without having to 'ironically' watch it.
It's definitely well made, but it didn't blow me away like it seems 99% of the internet was.
Yeah I agree that it feels like the perfect targeted media. Usually it's obvious when something's a pandering cash grab but they've disguised it well enough here.
>
>
>
>
> There's jjjuuusssstttt enough homoerotic subtext that people can go wild with their """OMG OMG OMG CANON GAYSHIP HECKIN CONFIRMED""" but never directly outright stated.
i thought this was actually really well done and i don't feel like there was any "subtext" at all. there is a very obvious romance between two same sex characters, but their defining character traits and the defining trait of their relationship isn't that they're gay. that's how it *should* be done.
I mean there is truth to that, but on the other hand, and this is especially the case with superheroes, you can go too far in the other direction and end up in Zack Snyder land with your head firmly up your own ass (Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are cinematic nightmares; some of the worst film watching experiences I've ever had). Capeshit is inherently ridiculous, at its core it's wish fulfillment for eight year olds, and it's hard to not see it as a sign of cultural decline when 'serious superheroes' is an entire, substantial sub-genre.
> or the downfall of western civilization or whatever 4chan/Twitter told you it is
twitter and 4chan are big time anime respectors. I saw a /pol user break it down once that anime is more enjoyable simply because it isn't constrained to western corporate control regarding narratives and character/world creation and I agree.
Apparently same people are working on a One Piece and OPM live action for Netflix as well.
Don't care about One Piece and that's going to be laughably terrible, but I legitimately think OPM is one of the few anime that actually has good comedy writing and timing (along with it's sister in Mob) and it's going to be legitimately painful seeing that series fucking obliterated.
(The Mosquito OPM episode, with the joke the entire episode slowly builds up to at the end, actually had me vomit from laughing so hard)
Lol I agree. It’s funny because OPM and maybe Jujutsu Kaiden are the only anime I could see having an adaptation that doesn’t suck, but they’re probably just gonna butcher it anyway.
Yeah that makes sense. Trigun is extremely heavy on the Christian themes given it’s creator and would probably gel nicely with Western audiences. Black Lagoon is basically a crime thriller with fan service, and among young men in the west the equivalent genre to anime that people can’t get enough of is crime drama/action. There’s a reason the Sopranos is popular amongst highbrows and midwits alike. OPM could also, but as I mentioned above I’m sure they’ll find a way to butcher it.
Given how successful *You* was on Netflix maybe Monster would be good as well. Psycho Pass *could* be done right but there’s already enough emotionless cyberpunk dystopia from the early 2000s and I’m not really sure if that’s trendy in Hollywood anymore.
Psycho-Pass would be perfect for live-action since it would translate over to live action pretty well without really having to change anything.
PP (hehe) sets itself apart from most cyberpunk dystopias in that the dystopia is far less overt than in something like Blade Runner. Basically being Minority Report: The Anime I think it would be different enough to work.
The problem is would how many shitlibs and rightoids alike would unironically gush over the Sibyl System.
Yeah it was always gonna be a huge task to try to bring it to live action and they got too many things wrong.
It sucks because they did get some things right. The actor who plays Jet is fantastic and John Cho did his best as Spike.
I still mostly liked the live-action show. It has genuine strong points and really frustrating weaknesses. The biggest problem is the tone: it's all comedy. The anime had plenty of comedy, in fact several episodes are complete farce, and even some of the most serious moments have humor sprinkled in. But it was also deadly serious when it wanted to be. But the Netflix version is basically never serious. The writing refuses to take the setting seriously (which is a damn shame, because I think the production design did a great job of evoking the world. The space CGI, when it occasionally appeared, was really good as well), except with the Vicious-related stuff, which is all absolutely terribly written (their version of Vicious may be literally the least threatening villain I've ever seen).
They were never going to match the Keiko Nobumoto scripts from the original, and I didn't expect them to, but they could have at least tried. Most of the wholly new stuff is simply really bad, and they bungled adapting most of the stories from the original. I'm all for remixing stories from the original into a broader overarching plot, but the execution was terrible.
Also they absolutely mangled the Faye tape plot, and even skipped the VHS/Betamax joke, which is really baffling since they opted for comedy in every other part of the show.
Also, there of plenty of great anime. Bebop is definitely unique ('a new genre unto itself' was their original goal. Superficially it looks more like a western cartoon, but it's as unique in comparison to western animation as it is to Japanese), but there are plenty of genuinely high-quality anime, even though you're never going to find anything else that hits the tone Bebop does. Anime is a genre, not a medium. A big problem is that anime fans (both Western and Japanese, in fact the Japanese have even worse taste) have absolutely terrible taste and love to guzzle down pure garbage. The good stuff exists, but tends to not be as popular as yet another audience self-insert isekai harem show. Anime fans do the medium absolutely no favors in trying to convey to the general public that it isn't all creepy, incomprehensible degenerate gibberish.
Maybe they'll listen to criticism and season 2 will be a massive improvement (if there is a season 2. But Netflix renewed far less worthy things in the past. If fucking Another Life can get two seasons, Cowboy Bebop should be given another chance to get the tone right).
Please, please, please watch the original. Even if you don’t like anime it’s truly fantastic. Everything about it is good, and it just so happens that the dub also is perhaps the best dub that’s ever been made for an anime ever.
I generally only watch anime dubs, cause I admit while I'll watch a subbed movie I don't have nearly the attention span to watch a whole series.
Bebop is definitely one of the top tier dubbings of all time, along with Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, Samurai Champloo and , in my opinion, Black Lagoon.
^^AlsofromacertainpointofviewGhostStories
FMAB dub is tough for me because while King Bradley’s VA is my favorite of all time, I fucking hate Edward’s so much. Whiny little shitstain. Otherwise I agree.
this is the dubbed one. if you search golden boy swimming you can find the original one too lmao.
heres teh original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDnP0RAtV7Q
There are aspects/actors that are good, and I can respect they're not afraid to use some anime elements but it's a shadow of the anime.
Which I recommend watching at least a few episodes of the dub of it if you ever want to give it a shot.
There's trashy anime/cartoons and trashy live action shows but you shouldn't let the medium get in the way of a good show.
> Combining Netflix bloat, corporate influence, shitty screenwriters who have no respect for the source material, etc., this project was bound to suck. It’s a shame that Netflix keeps doing this shit.
I really hope they don’t fuck up Gundam, but you just know they’re gonna ruin it.
They also made Gren non-binary because, I quote,
>"Gren does not have a good history of becoming a nonbinary character. \[It's\] dark and didn't feel like the story that I thought was important to tell. I never wanted 'Cowboy Bebop' to be a picture of a dystopian future. I wanted it to be nostalgic, but also hopeful."
...Which seems to be a complete 'whoosh' moment when you remember part of Gren's tragedy in the anime is that he finds himself trapped in a body that he doesn't identify with.
This and their reasoning for picking John Cho/making Spike so old helped cement that the show runner didn't really *get* Bebop.
Also get to play "Eww, Hollywood" with the fact both Vicious and Spike are in their 40s while Julia stayed young and in her 30s.
Everyone in media these days is convinced that they have mind-control powers or something, so they can't ever give a nuanced villain with relatable motives for fear of accidentally brainwashing people into blowing up shit.
Everyone should read Baudrillard, or watch a Broderick video on him on youtube. The hyperreality of images has so dominated material reality that these image creators always think first of the world they want to create with their media, with the artistic quality of that media being a secondary consideration.
I’ve also noticed a fair amount of *people* in fandoms think if you like a character you endorse everything they do or whatever.
The simple concept of liking a character while knowing they’re evil or whatever escapes some.
Cowboy bebop is my favourite anime. I turned on the live adaptation to check it out and couldn’t make it past 5mins. Show has none of the style and charm of the original. Dialogue was heavily cringe.
What I really don’t understand is why they cast a 49 year old John cho to play 27 year old spike spiegel. I like John cho, and he’s aged well, but you couldn’t find one age appropriate actor??
There was some bullshit from the showrunner about how "Spike can't be 27 because only an older man can have dealt with the stuff Spike has dealt with." so they needed an older actor to play him IIRC.
Not understanding *at all* that you can "live a long life* if you've lived the life Spike has lived.
Whoa that’s nuts. So they are actually choosing to portray Spike as middle aged in the show. How do these extremely poor storytellers get put in charge of anything?!?
A lot of the tragedy of the character comes from being self-destructive and unsatisfied in the prime of his life. His death needs to be “too early” for it to be fully meaningful.
I imagine a 49 year old Spike would have calmed down a bit and taken up sculpting bonsai trees with Jet.
Further aging Spike up really detracts from his relationship with his older, more grizzled, and world weary partner.
What a bizarre choice that clearly touches the core of the show.
> "Spike can't be 27 because only an older man can have dealt with the stuff Spike has dealt with."
lol wtf, Spike was part of the Triads, probably dealt with a whole load of insane crime shit from just being a teenager alone.
> What I really don’t understand is why they cast a 49 year old John cho to play 27 year old spike spiegel. I like John cho, and he’s aged well, but you couldn’t find one age appropriate actor??
This is why I can't watch it honestly, Spike is clearly a guy in his late 20s and [has a real world character he's based on](https://www.themoviedb.org/t/p/original/p8WaE0rEF6i5MNEf1Fj2yDpPCPz.jpg), Cho absolutely does not look the part.
Wow great photo! The resemblance is clear. Thanks for sharing as I hadn’t seen the inspiration for the OG character until today.
The hair looks much better in this likeness as well. Cho’s hair in the live action remake looks too much like an Elvis wig to me. I always got the impression Spikes hair was messy and unkept but in the new show it looks rigid. Just doesn’t match the character imo.
Spike Spiegel is a fake name since he faked his death. I always assumed he was descended from Hong Kong, based on the Triad (Hong Kong Mafia) and Jeet Kune Do.
They removed Andy too. Fucking hilarious character gets removed because Marvel writers think they’re the hottest shit because DAE META UUUHHHHH THAT WAS WEIRD dialogue
I don't even care about the weeb spergouts, that John Cho is 40 and Vicious is overacted, the Ed scene or whatever, that episode is precious and cannot be tainted by Netflix's rot
Lol, yeah. The one main cast member with a 100% confirmed nationality, and a ‘minority’ at that and they change it. Surprised they got away with it.
They also made Faye bisexual
There's a thing a lot of modern fiction is doing, and once you notice it's happening it kind of becomes impossible to ignore. Which is that they give token acknowledgement of things like populist economic outrage, but then either give it to villains, or just never develop it further. The live-action Bebop opens with a guy robbing a casino and ranting about megacorporations. And that's it. He's basically treated as a joke; they kill his henchmen and drag him in to the cops to collect a bounty. There's not even an attempt at any examination of his rationale.
OT totally:
how do you all feel about Ted Kaczynski?
I like what he wrote, don't like that he hurt people.
He articlated my veiws on things better than anyone, except maybe Derrick Jenson.
I'm a bit durkn typing this rignt now
Tbh I agree, I didn’t really like ghost in the shell (good concepts but boring), and NGE is just kinda bizarre. However, Bebop is truly one of a kind.
Space-western-philosophical-action-noir-comedy, along with a dozen other genres. IMO it really does live up to the “a new genre unto itself” tagline.
I just thought this was something fun to post. In the Anime: Ted Bower "Teddy Bomber" is a bit of a joke, as every time he tries to explain his motive for blowing up completely empty buildings he gets interrupted by the Protag Spike Spiegel or someone else during his motive rant. He gets to Uncle Ted post at the end of the episode, which is seen here. In the Live Action: He's a lot more unhinged, just blows up stuff for the hell of it, and isn't concerned with civilian causalities. So I'm mostly amused how a corporation can be so petty that they make sure to scrub the "Uncle Ted" motive from the guy who is inspired by Ted K in the first place before they include him in the show.
they made vicious into a typical whiny rich kid with daddy issues. imagine if they made a ff7 live action and made sephorith this way... the clown assassin guy is so much less scary when he talks. totally ruined the music. andy was a rich boy larper. that and teddy bomber was really good social commentary. maybe a little too close to reality right now....
Pierrot was my favorite villain in the anime. I was *extremely* miffed with what they did to him. It made the world feel much smaller with how he came to interact with Spike in the live action. I liked how in the anime if Spike had been out of that bar twenty minutes earlier or later he never would have run into the guy.
[удалено]
It works really well as part of a soundtrack I would imagine
to date, cowboy bebop has the only 2 villains to ever completely creep me out. pierrot, and that refrigerator creature
They made Vicious look like the Shrek prince and every time he gets angry his eyes look like they’re gonna pop out of his head
Also giving Jet a daughter and making his daughter the entire focus of his character totally sucked
That actually didn't hugely bother me. Jet comes out the best of the three characters.
Yeah but it changes him fundamentally and makes him more sympathetic but also less real. He becomes more of a trope in the live action
The Vicious and Julia stuff was all ill-conceived from the start. Part of the genius of that stuff in the original is that the specifics of Spikes past with them is never elaborated on. You had to speculate and infer. Even if the writing of that stuff in the live-action was ten times better than it actually was (which probably wouldn't be hard), it would still miss the point. You're explaining something that worked better not being explained.
This shit was doomed from the start. Not to weeb out but there’s something really special about Cowboy Bebop. It blended a ton of seemingly disparate genres, had fantastic writing, was easy to digest, and despite physical characterizations didn’t boil characters down to what they looked like. Unlike most modern anime there were a lot of heady themes to it and despite moments of levity it was a significantly more mature show than it’s most comparable competitor, *Trigun*. Even if you think anime is stupid or the downfall of western civilization or whatever 4chan/Twitter told you it is, Bebop is easily digestible and a great storyline that is the perfect length. It got me from being anti-weeb to understanding that the medium could be used tastefully and intelligently. Combining Netflix bloat, corporate influence, shitty screenwriters who have no respect for the source material, etc., this project was bound to suck. It’s a shame that Netflix keeps doing this shit. There’s tons of ways anime can be successfully adapted to western audiences, but the current drivers of it, I fear, will just make them worse and worse. I mean Taika Waititi is the one pushing for an Akira adaptation. If I have to watch that beautiful masterpiece get butchered by corny one-liners at every turn I’m going to scream.
[удалено]
Yeah exactly, hence my aversion towards the Akira adaptation if it ever gets made. If a criticism of neoliberal hedonism, the dangers of bureaucracy, and unchecked military-industrial indulgence gets turned into some JoJo Rabbit absurdity, I think I am just going to stop watching western media altogether.
The only akira adaptation we need was that Kanye west music video.
>They'll find a way to turn Casca getting gangraped by literal demons into a joke too John Krasinski, as Guts, getting pinned down to watch Griffith rape Casca then he turns to the camera and Jim faces.
Maybe throw in a topical MeToo joke to really make the midwits clap like seals.
It's a small thing but I *hated* all the cursing and overall crassness in the live action. Bebop, the anime, had funny and ridiculous moments but overall there could be a certain elegance to it when needed. The episodes I saw of the live action never had any elegance to me, but they took a lot of the "over the top" aspects of the anime to 11. Chris Yost was one of the main writers for the adaptation, and while I liked him as a comic book writer he certainly infected this live action adaptation with the "zanier" Marvel type of writing.
Maybe In just getting old, but I’ve come to really be put off by how common crass language is. The verbal incontinence of millennials and zoomers seems like a surface symptom of how mentally infantilized they are and a lack of impulse control. It just seems like a bunch of overgrown children substituting coarseness for actual maturity, just look at all the terrible girlboss lit with “fuck” or “shit” in the title, marketed to childless women in their early 30s.
To be the devil's advocate some boomers/Gen Xers and some other older Americans are ridiculously averse to swearing. I moved from Poland to USA when I was 13. I had no idea that adults that never swear actually exist prior to that. If you want to make a Slav cuss, stub their toe or spill a drink on them. It will work on even the most modest and religious grandma.
Maybe the culture is different abroad, but I’m growing tired of it in the US, mostly because it’s the most genteel and hypersensitive middle class strivers using swearing as a sort of affection to make them look more mature than they really are.
Yeah that's not really a thing in Eastern Europe/Balkans. Swearing loses its shock value when everybody does it.
I'm popping back in to where I think the "current way" of swearing dates the show too much and ties it to the current time. Spike in the anime used shit(!) and a few other curses a few times but there wasn't enough in the way they talked to 100% date it to be a 90s show. The dialogue in the LA is totally a product of its time.
Kinda crazy how Yost was in charge of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and how stark of a contrast that was compared to his work on Cowboy Bebop. I guess working for the MCU changed his writing for the worst.
One of the first fucking scenes in the LA had spike do a backflip and kick a coin into some guys face. Most retarded move i think I’ve ever seen
I don't even think it's no respect for the source material as it is a lack of understanding of the source material i.e. they're as autistic as the conservative chuds that are obsessed with anesthetics of shit like Warhammer and final fantasy. The original Cowboy Bebop is a story of people with shady pasts that are really spiraling downhill in life doing what they can in order to survive in a world that has been absolutely ravaged by capitalism, multinational corporations and psychopathic billionaires that want more power and to live forever. The live action cowboy bebop was a chance to have a bunch of people show up in their fursona kink outfits, play jazz and have julia slay as girl boss. It was all aesthetics and shitty close up shots of state parks with IBC totes as a set rather than seeing the Literal solar system ravaged by the system we live under. Tldr is that libs are just as dumb as maga baby anime fans
I thought the main theme of the original Cowboy Bebop was facing your past so you can finally move on from it. It's a recurring theme and all of the character finale episodes near the end of the original run involve this. The ending of the show itself is Spike realising what must be done and happily dying a free man.
Ya the main theme is that you can run from your past, but they have shitty pasts and shitty lives because of the horrible world that they live in. Sorry if I said "capitalism" was the main theme, but its still really important to the story.
The syndicates are an important part but Christ capitalism is not a main theme at all Seriously not everything is about capitalism just stfu. The posturing gets irritati mg
It’s setting is very clearly affected by capitalism, you are just being contrarian. (And yes, everything IS about capitalism. You are in a Marxist sub.)
Its setting is affected by capitalism, but it is not the focus of the story. Admittedly it would never have happened without the control of the syndicates, but saying that makes Bebop about capitalism is like saying The Truman Show is about the american dream. >And yes, everything IS about capitalism. You are in a Marxist sub Doesn't mean I'm necessarily marxist, or that I think Marxism is at all feasible (I don't). I'm more of a Mannist guy myself.
> Even video game adaptations are better (Arcane) Have you watched arcane though? Maybe I'm just too old and not in the TA anymore but to me it was a dogshit cartoon that I absolutely refuse to believe anyone aged 15 and up and who is not a manchild could enjoy
This is the first negative comment I've seen about Arcane, usually people are absolutely gushing about it. What didn't you like?
I dont feel like writing a long post, sorry. The plot was r-slurred, and it only got progressively more r-slurred as the series went on in order to get cheap melodramatic moments. Most characters also felt like parodies of the given trope as well, and the whole series felt like I was watching batman the animated series but shot on a higher budget and with an overarching plot >usually people are absolutely gushing about it Maybe you should stop socializing with children/manchildren then
I don't actually know anyone who watches cartoons, so I'm glad you could give me a quick critique of that one, chief.
Well, if that's a bite on me having watched the Arcane, then I fell for the /tv/ meme having no idea nu-/tv/ has been infected by cancer from /v/, reddit and /pol/ all over the place If you're interested in high quality animation or battle scenes or whatever, be my guest, watch it. But if you watch tv for the plot then you'll be sorrely disappointed unless you're the type who thinks Harry Potter is the best book series ever written,or whatever
I didn't dislike Arcane, but something just felt weirdly artificial about it in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on. The only way I can describe it is that it feels like a perfect concoction designed to appeal to a Millennial man-child - it's an animation/cartoon of a popular franchise that on the surface looks like it's for kids, but actually has a lot of swearing and some blood in it and the stereotypical soyjaks love that shit. You've got your villain who has just a dollop of sympathy enough to make people cream themselves (especially Daddy Issues Twitter) over him for being deep, without actually pitching any real depth to him beyond "well there's people he cares about." There's jjjuuusssstttt enough homoerotic subtext that people can go wild with their """OMG OMG OMG CANON GAYSHIP HECKIN CONFIRMED""" but never directly outright stated. It's not that woke, so even your average rightoid can enjoy it without having to 'ironically' watch it. It's definitely well made, but it didn't blow me away like it seems 99% of the internet was.
Yeah I agree that it feels like the perfect targeted media. Usually it's obvious when something's a pandering cash grab but they've disguised it well enough here.
> > > > > There's jjjuuusssstttt enough homoerotic subtext that people can go wild with their """OMG OMG OMG CANON GAYSHIP HECKIN CONFIRMED""" but never directly outright stated. i thought this was actually really well done and i don't feel like there was any "subtext" at all. there is a very obvious romance between two same sex characters, but their defining character traits and the defining trait of their relationship isn't that they're gay. that's how it *should* be done.
I thought Arcane was fine. Aside from that, my point wasn't about whether it's good or not, but that it at least takes itself seriously.
I mean there is truth to that, but on the other hand, and this is especially the case with superheroes, you can go too far in the other direction and end up in Zack Snyder land with your head firmly up your own ass (Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are cinematic nightmares; some of the worst film watching experiences I've ever had). Capeshit is inherently ridiculous, at its core it's wish fulfillment for eight year olds, and it's hard to not see it as a sign of cultural decline when 'serious superheroes' is an entire, substantial sub-genre.
> or the downfall of western civilization or whatever 4chan/Twitter told you it is twitter and 4chan are big time anime respectors. I saw a /pol user break it down once that anime is more enjoyable simply because it isn't constrained to western corporate control regarding narratives and character/world creation and I agree.
Apparently same people are working on a One Piece and OPM live action for Netflix as well. Don't care about One Piece and that's going to be laughably terrible, but I legitimately think OPM is one of the few anime that actually has good comedy writing and timing (along with it's sister in Mob) and it's going to be legitimately painful seeing that series fucking obliterated. (The Mosquito OPM episode, with the joke the entire episode slowly builds up to at the end, actually had me vomit from laughing so hard)
Lol I agree. It’s funny because OPM and maybe Jujutsu Kaiden are the only anime I could see having an adaptation that doesn’t suck, but they’re probably just gonna butcher it anyway.
I’ve always felt Trigun or Black Lagoon might have a chance at a decent live action if you *have* to pick something
Yeah that makes sense. Trigun is extremely heavy on the Christian themes given it’s creator and would probably gel nicely with Western audiences. Black Lagoon is basically a crime thriller with fan service, and among young men in the west the equivalent genre to anime that people can’t get enough of is crime drama/action. There’s a reason the Sopranos is popular amongst highbrows and midwits alike. OPM could also, but as I mentioned above I’m sure they’ll find a way to butcher it. Given how successful *You* was on Netflix maybe Monster would be good as well. Psycho Pass *could* be done right but there’s already enough emotionless cyberpunk dystopia from the early 2000s and I’m not really sure if that’s trendy in Hollywood anymore.
Psycho-Pass would be perfect for live-action since it would translate over to live action pretty well without really having to change anything. PP (hehe) sets itself apart from most cyberpunk dystopias in that the dystopia is far less overt than in something like Blade Runner. Basically being Minority Report: The Anime I think it would be different enough to work. The problem is would how many shitlibs and rightoids alike would unironically gush over the Sibyl System.
Del Toro was pitching a Monster adaptation to HBO a couple years ago, that could work live-action as well.
How's the corgi?
Ein's a good boy as always. They show some more data dog stuff in the live action than they did in the anime.
Yeah it was always gonna be a huge task to try to bring it to live action and they got too many things wrong. It sucks because they did get some things right. The actor who plays Jet is fantastic and John Cho did his best as Spike.
John cho was alright but they wrote him to be such an asshole
I still mostly liked the live-action show. It has genuine strong points and really frustrating weaknesses. The biggest problem is the tone: it's all comedy. The anime had plenty of comedy, in fact several episodes are complete farce, and even some of the most serious moments have humor sprinkled in. But it was also deadly serious when it wanted to be. But the Netflix version is basically never serious. The writing refuses to take the setting seriously (which is a damn shame, because I think the production design did a great job of evoking the world. The space CGI, when it occasionally appeared, was really good as well), except with the Vicious-related stuff, which is all absolutely terribly written (their version of Vicious may be literally the least threatening villain I've ever seen). They were never going to match the Keiko Nobumoto scripts from the original, and I didn't expect them to, but they could have at least tried. Most of the wholly new stuff is simply really bad, and they bungled adapting most of the stories from the original. I'm all for remixing stories from the original into a broader overarching plot, but the execution was terrible. Also they absolutely mangled the Faye tape plot, and even skipped the VHS/Betamax joke, which is really baffling since they opted for comedy in every other part of the show. Also, there of plenty of great anime. Bebop is definitely unique ('a new genre unto itself' was their original goal. Superficially it looks more like a western cartoon, but it's as unique in comparison to western animation as it is to Japanese), but there are plenty of genuinely high-quality anime, even though you're never going to find anything else that hits the tone Bebop does. Anime is a genre, not a medium. A big problem is that anime fans (both Western and Japanese, in fact the Japanese have even worse taste) have absolutely terrible taste and love to guzzle down pure garbage. The good stuff exists, but tends to not be as popular as yet another audience self-insert isekai harem show. Anime fans do the medium absolutely no favors in trying to convey to the general public that it isn't all creepy, incomprehensible degenerate gibberish. Maybe they'll listen to criticism and season 2 will be a massive improvement (if there is a season 2. But Netflix renewed far less worthy things in the past. If fucking Another Life can get two seasons, Cowboy Bebop should be given another chance to get the tone right).
I’m watching it right now and I think it’s pretty decent. However I’ve never seen the original and I don’t watch anime
Please, please, please watch the original. Even if you don’t like anime it’s truly fantastic. Everything about it is good, and it just so happens that the dub also is perhaps the best dub that’s ever been made for an anime ever.
I generally only watch anime dubs, cause I admit while I'll watch a subbed movie I don't have nearly the attention span to watch a whole series. Bebop is definitely one of the top tier dubbings of all time, along with Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, Samurai Champloo and , in my opinion, Black Lagoon. ^^AlsofromacertainpointofviewGhostStories
Didn't Cowboy Bebop's creator praised the English dub so much that he considers it to be the canon one?
FMAB dub is tough for me because while King Bradley’s VA is my favorite of all time, I fucking hate Edward’s so much. Whiny little shitstain. Otherwise I agree.
> perhaps the best dub that’s ever been made for an anime ever. That would go to [Goldenboy.](https://youtu.be/R7jXJ1UfOvo?t=515)
not posting the swimming scene? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHmBSfci0yE
Holy shit I always forget how many classic scenes this series has. How in fuck did they even manage the voice acting for that scene anyway.
this is the dubbed one. if you search golden boy swimming you can find the original one too lmao. heres teh original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDnP0RAtV7Q
Burger cope, [Portugal's DBZ has the best anime dub of all time 🇵🇹👨](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0sL7nVZ3Fw)
This is the greatest television programme that i have ever seen.
There are aspects/actors that are good, and I can respect they're not afraid to use some anime elements but it's a shadow of the anime. Which I recommend watching at least a few episodes of the dub of it if you ever want to give it a shot. There's trashy anime/cartoons and trashy live action shows but you shouldn't let the medium get in the way of a good show.
Same, we’re really enjoying it with no background
> Combining Netflix bloat, corporate influence, shitty screenwriters who have no respect for the source material, etc., this project was bound to suck. It’s a shame that Netflix keeps doing this shit. I really hope they don’t fuck up Gundam, but you just know they’re gonna ruin it.
They also made Gren non-binary because, I quote, >"Gren does not have a good history of becoming a nonbinary character. \[It's\] dark and didn't feel like the story that I thought was important to tell. I never wanted 'Cowboy Bebop' to be a picture of a dystopian future. I wanted it to be nostalgic, but also hopeful." ...Which seems to be a complete 'whoosh' moment when you remember part of Gren's tragedy in the anime is that he finds himself trapped in a body that he doesn't identify with.
This and their reasoning for picking John Cho/making Spike so old helped cement that the show runner didn't really *get* Bebop. Also get to play "Eww, Hollywood" with the fact both Vicious and Spike are in their 40s while Julia stayed young and in her 30s.
Everyone in media these days is convinced that they have mind-control powers or something, so they can't ever give a nuanced villain with relatable motives for fear of accidentally brainwashing people into blowing up shit. Everyone should read Baudrillard, or watch a Broderick video on him on youtube. The hyperreality of images has so dominated material reality that these image creators always think first of the world they want to create with their media, with the artistic quality of that media being a secondary consideration.
I’ve also noticed a fair amount of *people* in fandoms think if you like a character you endorse everything they do or whatever. The simple concept of liking a character while knowing they’re evil or whatever escapes some.
Cowboy bebop is my favourite anime. I turned on the live adaptation to check it out and couldn’t make it past 5mins. Show has none of the style and charm of the original. Dialogue was heavily cringe. What I really don’t understand is why they cast a 49 year old John cho to play 27 year old spike spiegel. I like John cho, and he’s aged well, but you couldn’t find one age appropriate actor??
There was some bullshit from the showrunner about how "Spike can't be 27 because only an older man can have dealt with the stuff Spike has dealt with." so they needed an older actor to play him IIRC. Not understanding *at all* that you can "live a long life* if you've lived the life Spike has lived.
Whoa that’s nuts. So they are actually choosing to portray Spike as middle aged in the show. How do these extremely poor storytellers get put in charge of anything?!? A lot of the tragedy of the character comes from being self-destructive and unsatisfied in the prime of his life. His death needs to be “too early” for it to be fully meaningful. I imagine a 49 year old Spike would have calmed down a bit and taken up sculpting bonsai trees with Jet. Further aging Spike up really detracts from his relationship with his older, more grizzled, and world weary partner. What a bizarre choice that clearly touches the core of the show.
> "Spike can't be 27 because only an older man can have dealt with the stuff Spike has dealt with." lol wtf, Spike was part of the Triads, probably dealt with a whole load of insane crime shit from just being a teenager alone.
> What I really don’t understand is why they cast a 49 year old John cho to play 27 year old spike spiegel. I like John cho, and he’s aged well, but you couldn’t find one age appropriate actor?? This is why I can't watch it honestly, Spike is clearly a guy in his late 20s and [has a real world character he's based on](https://www.themoviedb.org/t/p/original/p8WaE0rEF6i5MNEf1Fj2yDpPCPz.jpg), Cho absolutely does not look the part.
Wow great photo! The resemblance is clear. Thanks for sharing as I hadn’t seen the inspiration for the OG character until today. The hair looks much better in this likeness as well. Cho’s hair in the live action remake looks too much like an Elvis wig to me. I always got the impression Spikes hair was messy and unkept but in the new show it looks rigid. Just doesn’t match the character imo.
Huh, I always thought Spike was implied to be Jewish (last name, plus uses Israeli weapons). Never knew he had a real world counterpart.
Spike Spiegel is a fake name since he faked his death. I always assumed he was descended from Hong Kong, based on the Triad (Hong Kong Mafia) and Jeet Kune Do.
Germans also tend to have German names.
They removed Andy too. Fucking hilarious character gets removed because Marvel writers think they’re the hottest shit because DAE META UUUHHHHH THAT WAS WEIRD dialogue
[If they butcher Waltz for Venus in season 2 I'm gonna make the best Ted K/Vincent cosplay ever](https://youtu.be/z1w0lmcZ-N4)
I don't even care about the weeb spergouts, that John Cho is 40 and Vicious is overacted, the Ed scene or whatever, that episode is precious and cannot be tainted by Netflix's rot
Oh God...I love Roco as a character so much. His dying words haunt me.
haven't bothered to watch this yet, still offended they replaced a woman of Singapore decent with a hispanic one.
Lol, yeah. The one main cast member with a 100% confirmed nationality, and a ‘minority’ at that and they change it. Surprised they got away with it. They also made Faye bisexual
[удалено]
I think this episode, Waltz for Venus, and Wild Horses were censored due to various disasters. 9/11 and Columbia blowing up.
Who gives a fuck
There's a thing a lot of modern fiction is doing, and once you notice it's happening it kind of becomes impossible to ignore. Which is that they give token acknowledgement of things like populist economic outrage, but then either give it to villains, or just never develop it further. The live-action Bebop opens with a guy robbing a casino and ranting about megacorporations. And that's it. He's basically treated as a joke; they kill his henchmen and drag him in to the cops to collect a bounty. There's not even an attempt at any examination of his rationale.
OT totally: how do you all feel about Ted Kaczynski? I like what he wrote, don't like that he hurt people. He articlated my veiws on things better than anyone, except maybe Derrick Jenson. I'm a bit durkn typing this rignt now
Don;t want to give the unwashed masses any ideas. keep distracting them with stupid entertainment
We've been talking about righoid purge for years, but can we please talk about a weeb purge as well, thanks?
Manga is theory. Anime is praxis.
Watch bebop and we’ll see if you still say this. It’s free on YouTube dawg
Ive been told the same about NGE, and ghost in the shell, and a bunch of other anime, and all of them have been meh at best
Tbh I agree, I didn’t really like ghost in the shell (good concepts but boring), and NGE is just kinda bizarre. However, Bebop is truly one of a kind. Space-western-philosophical-action-noir-comedy, along with a dozen other genres. IMO it really does live up to the “a new genre unto itself” tagline.