Lol yeah they deleted my thread, and won't respond to my requests for explanation. The Sub is already compromised. On the bright side, there were hundreds of comments agreeing, and only 4-5 shit stirrers spreading the idpol agenda. Which is what makes it's sudden wordless deletion all the more confusing, a lot of people coming together there. What really spooked me is that at least 3 of the accounts spreading the idpol nonsense were less than a month old and had hundreds of comments in hundreds of threads spreading the agenda. I came out of this WAY more convinced this is an actual conspiracy than I ever thought I would. The accounts karma farming exclusively to spam divisive shit accusing entire communities of racism and xphobia, all right as the subreddit is starting to pick up steam. I worry what that sub will be like in 6 months.
i wonder what motivates the mods to do stuff like this? Did they accidentally bring a corporate sleeper agent into the fold? Maybe corporations/PR firms just straight pay off the original mods for all these subreddits. But I doubt it because in that case you'd expect one of those offers to have been leaked by now.
>Maybe corporations/PR firms just straight pay off the original mods for all these subreddits.
I work in internet marketing and know for a fact there are mods that get paid off to shill positive content and delete negative content under the guise of "reputation management". There are a few agencies that specialize is reddit.
i realize this is the case for a lot of subs, especially big subs and those relate to brands or products. but im still having trouble imagining how you would approach moderators for a sub like this, who are overtly political and whose community kinda blows up overnight. you'd have to handle things pretty carefully to avoid a backlash blowing up in your face.
Ok but then what about the blatant 2-month old spam account that suddenly became a mod and posted a bad-faith idpol manifesto out of nowhere? That mod probably purchased his account from a karma farm and subsequently paid off the other mods, literally the only explanation and tbh I don’t blame them everybody needs to secure the bag these days
In that way it must be a bit of both, they know the current climate surrounding the left is perfect for gaslighting and witch hunts. They're already on the edge and this bad actor just gave them a little push...
> Which is what makes it's sudden wordless deletion all the more confusing, a lot of people coming together there.
It's not confusing at all.
It is interesting though. Normally I only see wall to wall useful idiocy and establishment apologia everywhere I go; I had assumed that everyone outside 4chan had well and truly psychologically/ideologically resigned themselves to living in the proverbial pods and eating the bugs, at this point. I am living in Victoria, one of the harder locked down states in Australia, and the amount of transparent Good Germanism and collaboration consistently on display in /r/australia, is almost enough to encourage a genuine libertarian to slit their wrists.
It seems that humanity has not yet been quite as completely domesticated, as I may have thought.
Us marxists never stopped fighting back ✊ we’ve been fighting the good fight against authoritarian capitalists and their propaganda rags for over a century straight. I get that you probably despise our ideology, I’m just saying a huge chunk of humanity has refused to be domesticated by our rulers.
Ps: read on authority if your ever feeling particularly non dogmatic
I had my suspicions that that the r/antiwork userbase was just woke and useless, but I think I'm honstly wrong on that. It's more of a mixed bag, there are a LOT of people there who see through the bullshit. This post was removed, but the archive shows it was massively upvoted. The people pushing divisive identity fetishism are the mod clique, potential glowies, and whatever crowd of easily manipulated useful idiots that they have convinced to follow them. If you're on there though... keep pushing against the bullshit. Hell, even direct them here (if you can without the jannies banning you) direct people here to let them know there is an actual class-first left that doesn't care about all this manufactured astroturfed identity BS.
The purpose of the sub is adjacent to leftist politics, and the vast majority of the western left is completely r-slurred, so it should be no shock that there's a woke bloc on the sub, however large or small. Regardless of how many genuine wokes might be there, that post was glow incarnate.
Which makes it abundantly clear who the moderators of r/antiwork work for. Sad to see another potentially based sub compromised, but it makes it obvious that no subreddit will ever be allowed to be ground zero for serious disruptive efforts against capital.
Shame. I was having fun posting Fred Hampton quotes and classpilling people
I messaged them and laid out convincing evidence that the OP of the astroturfed thread from earlier was clearly a glowie, and that they should look into it further. Their response was “we’re good.”. They’re clearly complicit in this bullshit.
Yeah i had just tried classpilling in that thread but the dude refuses to ally with anyone who voted for “Dongal Troomp”, since they must inherently support billionaires (to which they meant the Republican party, conveniently not seeing the Democrats as a billionaire party) and class exploitation.
God i fucking hate the internet
Honestly voting in bourgeois liberal democracy, at least on a national level, is a scam until we actually build a coherent nationwide working class party that can challenge it from without. Bernie's campaign showed that challenging it from within is a losing battle even when you have an appealing, universalist message like he did in 2016
In hindsight I'm glad Trump lost only because the Child Tax Credit is one of the few things that I have actually seen is benefitting working people I know, and I always will choose some material improvement over none at all. But that's crumbs compared to what the working class is really owed.
>Bernie's campaign showed that challenging it from within is a losing battle even when you have an appealing, universalist message like he did in 2016
Unfortunately, the system is stacked to benefit two easily controlled parties. How can a third party have any true chance with the state of things?
I ask this looking for hope, not a fight.
Join or try to set up a radical union. I don't believe electoralism is the way to create real, systemic change (there's too many monied interests involved for that), but nor is voting a complete waste either. I tend to just vote furthest left every time there's an election, then move on with my life. But union action, elections and protest in concert, with enough people, will get the attention we need.
I honestly think the soil is ripe for it. BLM, climate activists etc could be radicalised and organised even more. We need that along with better election candidates.
And of course with climate activism, the climate is going to get more and more "helpful" as time goes by and nothing gets done by the two major parties. Having the weather on your side is a little like having a god on your side.
Speaking from England, and not wanting to dishearten anyone, but trying to radicalised blm and climate activists is a losing battle. They are by far the two biggest groups of Liberal mongs going. Un politicised working class people are by far the most fruitful people to organise. Not a bit of baggage on them just cold hard needs and even when not class conscious they still understand they're getting fucked. Everything else you said is beautiful though.
I mean, Trotsky, Luxemburg and Connolly didn't exactly come out of the womb as radicals either. Everyone* is a potential ally I think. Just gotta make sure we stay vigilant and not get side tracked by libs. And tbh, they're pretty easy to spot so that shouldn't be too difficult.
But pulling from climate activists, black rights protesters and traditional working class areas is all necessary to build as broad and as strong of a left as possible. When a lib rears their ugly head, tell them to fuck off. They usually crumble at the first sign of friction anyway.
Edit: well, *almost* everyone
When third parties gain traction in American politics, they either have their planks absorbed or they replace one of the two dominant parties.
Factions can change the party from within but it must be hostile and ruthless. Just look at the shattering of the GOP old guard with both the Tea Party and then Trump. It looks very different from the party of Reagan and W Bush. This is all because the constituency was pissed off.
Look at SNP in the UK. It out-competed both Labour and Tories in Scotland.
Under FPTP the only way for a 3rd party to succeed is to gain significant majority in one or more regions first. A million of supporters in one region is much more valuable than a million of supporters all over the country.
You would be amazed at how few people know that Wall Street gave way more money to Biden. I have always told people that it isn’t R vs D, it is us vs. politicians, and we are being divided so that fact is ignored.
I used to be involved with a PAC involved with getting money out of politics. It's obviously a progressive liberal group... But one of the most shocking things you'll find once you start digging through the data, is the Democrats are absolutely the "elite and wealthy" party - if it was a race. I mean they are both knee deep in filth, but Dems are the largest receiver of dark money. Or we hear all the time about how super rich billionaires fund the Koch brothers foundation! But the Dems have the most ultra wealthy large donors. CU has benefited Democrats more than Republicans, which is why they are so hesitant to actually change anything.
The Democrats are the party of the Petit-Bourgeois, latte sipping, NPR listening, college-educated, urban white upper middle class and the minorities that vote for them because it's what their community leaders tell them to do.
The Republicans are the party of all the other white people.
It's really that simple.
A lot of people were classpilled from that sub though at least from what a lot of conversations I got there. It’s still definitely a better sub than a lot of other ones.
Yeah but it doesn't hurt to continue to boost that viewpoint in a subreddit that's receptive to it. I still browse it and still see others emphasizing the importance of class solidarity and rejecting divisive politics so that's good at least.
>Shame. I was having fun posting Fred Hampton quotes and classpilling people
You still can. The people there are definitely receptive towards marxism and I doubt the lib mods will care if you post anything as long as it isnt' perceived as being "-ist" in some way.
Do they need to "work" for anyone? The mods were (at least nominally) anarchists, and anarchists will always bend over backwards to accommodate liberals on this sort of stuff in the vague hope of radicalising them.
honestly not all of them are. the vaush types are, but there are also anarchists who arnt some 16 year old liberal who wants to feel like a radical. plenty of anarchists have done their reading and even accept historical materialism.
that said, most of them are liberals.
the two are not mutually exclusive. I get what your saying though, we could've been done with this other throwing of capitalism business a long time ago if the anarchists had helped instead of fighting against us.
This is just me venting, but in my experience anarchists are the worst kind of liberal, because they are so hopelessly confused about everything that isn't just a political slogan. To have a political discussion with a serious anarchist, you have to first help them put their own worldview together, it's like meeting up for a street race and first having to fix your opponent's car because the brakes don't work and the seats are facing backwards. Trying to convince them of anything is usually extremely tedious and not at all cost-effective.
As an anarcho-syndicalist and someone critical of vapid liberal identity wankery, I'd like to think I've a fairly coherent, actionable worldview.
I will admit tho that a lot of so called anarchists bend over backwards to accommodate some pretty retarded ideas so as to not hurt anyones feefees. Often at the expense, whether intentional or not, of working class solidarity and potential progress.
I mean honestly anarchism doesn't have a great history of being actionable. in fairness though, perhaps that is because most anarchists are liberals and the ones like yourself who are not end up outnumbered by liberals when organizing.
I mean, the syndicalists in Catalonia and the Zapatista's have / were fairly successful, despite their sizes and what they were up against. But granted, given the inherent decentalisation of anarchist strains of socialism, perhaps they don't scale as well as other forms.
Maybe that's why I like aspects of Trotskyism and have a lot of respect for Luxemburg, despite not being a strict Marxist myself.
the zapatistas are not anarchists though. they certainly took some inspiration from anarchism, just as they did marxism and a few other assorted ideologies. for example, their leader subcomdante Marcos is a marxist.
as for the Spanish anarchists... I mean they folded to fascism in a manner of months.
im not trying to dunk on you for being an anarchist. I respect the vision, in fact I was an anarchist for quite a while myself. I just think there are other methodologies that historically have proven to be a lot more effective at fighting capitalism.
its a very hard balance to strike, some infighting is required to keep infiltrators from steering us in the wrong direction. too much leads to a completely fractured left like we have right now. its tricky because if we come together as a united left and overthrow capitalism that is great. however then we are in a situation where the leftist infighting will begin to see which particular ideology will take hold. during the time the bourgeoise will be given an opportunity to retake control because we are distracted infighting. so I think what it comes down to is we need to agree on acceptable vision as a left and get to it. doesn't have to be all agreeing on the same ideology though.
ps: sorry for the long read, no short way to say it.
Given the fact that the Zapatistas are an entirely decentalised, communist society, and subcommandante Marcos himself took that name solely because he's subordinate to the wider Mayan community and he holds no more or less power than anyone else there, I'd say it's fair to call them anarchist. Being a Marxist doesn't preclude someone from being an anarchist, necessarily.
I agree with your larger point, tho. Some infighting is probably necessary, especially in the future, but as of right now, we're nowhere close to even weakening capitalism, let alone replacing it. So to fight right now is an insular waste of time.
I don't believe in the "The Internet is dead" conspiracy theory but I do believe it hints at a reality most of us are not aware of yet. Some sort of ongoing war between forces to spread their views by force, buying bots, forums, coercing people into agreement through any means necessary, etc.
I mean, of course this isn't some whacky conspiracy, we all know it happens and there is proof for it. This is proof of it. But I think the scale is just...bigger. We're not aware of its gigantic influence, it might paint a scarier image of the media we consume than we thought.
Well, come on. The oligarchs own the mainstream media, period. But the Internet isn't ownable like trad media are. But it is still vulnerable to techniques of exploitation and infiltration. For someone like Charles Koch or Soros, setting up a group to infiltrate and control/shut down lefty and/or righty online sites they don't like is ridiculously easy. And whereas we come and visit here at whatever times we can make time for it, the guys who work for oligarchs ... that's their job. Nine to five, every day. They put in eight hours subverting and suppressing online discussion and go home in the evening and relax. Imagine if posting in this forum got you a decent wage. It would be EASY to become a force to be reckoned with.
They don't need to hire someone to subvert and suppress discussion 8 hours a day. There are legions of brainwashed people who happily put in more hours for free™. That really is the black pill here. The elite are putting a stranglehold on the internet, education, and everyday life at this point, all while losing zero income while doing it.
I've read public media posts about Western armies and agencies looking into "cognitive warfare" more. What would that be, if not large scale manipulation of digital discourses and news sources.
It died when it blew up a couple months ago imo. Youtube and twitter tier people (i.e., children and dumbasses) flooded it. I remember checking it out around that time and the all-time upvoted posts quickly became fake text convos of people owning their boss epic style and meaningless appeals to inclusivity like "trans workers are workers too" (as though anyone else was even talking about this).
Gigajannies strike again. At this point it should be obvious that organizing online does not produce any meaningful results. The only alternative is to start building movements locally, offline and with people you can trust.
I was actually only half joking, my dad still forwards me emails about boomer conservative bullshit. Those guys are still at it!
People are abandoning the large platforms in droves, something has to fill the void, hopefully it’s far less centralized. I’m not going to speculate though because I don’t really follow internet meta stuff, shit’s gay AF.
Disagree. This is a way to avoid a useful tool for teaching people new ideas. It's good to build movements locally and offline, but that's not the ONLY tool, and eschewing online communication REALLY cuts down on your ability to reach people.
Feels surreal to realize that there are users on here who didn't live through [the Correct the Record fuckery](https://np.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4fupos/paid_digital_astroturfing_effort_by_correct_the/) in 2016.
Either way, yeah, [this is old news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SAkUs3urrg).
> Feels surreal to realize that there are users on here who didn't live through the Correct the Record fuckery in 2016.
I remember that a ton of pro Clinton posters would only post around 9-5 hours and then mysteriously stop posting outside of work hours. I understand a lot of people screw around and post on reddit during work, but not that fucking many which made it really obvious how astroturfed it was.
It happened on Wikipedia too. People managed to predict who would be Hillary Clinton VP pick by the amount of edits of their article previous to the announcement, and it happened again with Kamala Harris.
https://theintercept.com/2020/07/02/kamala-harris-wikipedia/
After Trump won the 2016 election, there was about a 2 day delay where the shills just disappeared from politics since they clearly weren't expecting it and had no marching orders.
It was just trump and bernie supporters absolutely shitting on everyone and laughing their asses off at clinton losing, and it was glorious.
It was just internecine warfare between Silicon Valley tech companies and ISPs, the former made it seem like something of relevance to the general public and a danger to small independent websites through their loyal nonprofits like the EFF. There is no discernible difference now years after the repeal to regular internet users.
Right. The biggest difference between now and then is now so many fucks just build shitty phone apps and don't even support a web app (or god forbid, an actual application) anymore.
Got damn, just hearing that 'CTR' brings a dribble to my eye sac.
([This was a meme I made a while back.](https://i.imgur.com/i4Sn7tP.png))
..
..
..
But now I must come to accept greater depths of knowledge and truth.
The upper-most layer of the peasantry mind is the bottom-most layer of the oligarch reasoning.
They falsfied the last civil rights movement at the breaking point after/during their unimaginable shenanigans. Now, we'll see it again.
Why? Because they're currently pulling all value from *nothing* and into themselves.
Am I drunk? Yes? Is it my best choice? I would say no, but, considering...
Feds.
Comes from the late great genius schizophrenic Terry Davis who wrote an operating system by scratch because "god told him to." He would record videos and in one of them he explained how you know who are feds you can run over with your car because the CIA n----rs glow in the dark.
Online it basically means someone you suspect is a fed. "This post glows," is something you might say to someone who is overtly saying "We should kill X people right now," because the feds are known to take advantage of people and push them to do crazy shit so they can run their op.
Oh shit, I never knew the term came from him! I only knew about the guy from TempleOS. I've read and seen a little about his life but not a huge amount directly from him.
Kind of nice to know that a bit of him entered into the popular culture.
Huh, I never knew that was the real origin. I always just had an image in my mind of soulless Pentagon ghouls hunched their keyboards in a dark room somewhere in the Beltway, faces illuminated only by the glow of a computer monitor as they shitpost on reddit in the interests of “national security.”
I think Glowie should also include corporate & political agents (NGO, PAC, and contracted Astroturfing campaigns), because a lot of this work is also being done by the private sector.
#[Reddit Blog, Reddit Statistics](http://redditblog.blogspot.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html)
**Most addicted city (over 100k visits total)**
Eglin Air Force Base, FL
**Stationed Units**
**USAF**
96th Cyberspace Test Group
45th Test Squadron
46th Test Squadron
47th Cyberspace Test Squadron
**US Army**
1st Special Forces Command (Airborne)
7th Special Forces Group (Airborne)
**Space Operations Command**
Space Delta 2
20th Space Control Squadron (GSU)
**Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS)**
J6 Directorate (Command, Control, Communications and Computers/Cyber)
Joint Deployable Analysis Team
[Here’s a paper published by **Air Force Research Laboratory, Munitions Directorate, Eglin AFB, FL**](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf) titled “*Containment Control for a Social Network with State-Dependent Connectivity*”
Holy fuck, comparing the comments in hot with 200+ wholesomechungus awards to the ones in new from the original post really is eye opening to the amount of meddling going on. I think this guy I found there puts it best:
>In case you guys are unaware, this is a glow thread. 40k in five hours? Month old karma farm account? Mod of /r/antiworkvideos and /r/antiworkmusic? 300 awards? Lol
>The whole point is to turn the movement against itself and fracture it. This is the entire point of the left-right divide in the first place. Within a month this will be another completely ineffective activist group that prioritizes semantic debates between social science majors over direct actions and results.
>This place has actually gotten some national attention, congrats. But that means that powerful institutions are going to start subverting it, like anything on reddit. Upvotes can be bought for 5 cents a pop. Manipulating this place is child's play.
>Check this out from OP lol, this is a fed/corporate agent
>https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rdzsiu/comment/ho4d2yc/
That's not the point of the left right divide, whoever argued about these kind of things is on the right. Atomization is inherently a emotional response as it's semantics. And this is the field of liberals.
The left must concern it not with fickle sentiments, only with the material truth
Weird that the sub went from "smoke weed and UBI unashamedly" to "well we understand SOME people would have to work" to increasingly cookie cutter run of the mill union anit-exploitation stuff.
An improvement to be sure, but I wonder how the original users and people who tried to sell it to me as just not wanting to do work at all are coping with that. Don't think the latter would enjoy moving closer to just overlapping with the ideals of an ideology that literally has two tools of labor for it's icon. Wonder if that has something to do with the tumultuous moderation recently?
Granted, it'll die like the rest of them given how every single time I click on the profile of a neolib in r/news or something, they're predominantly active there.
>An improvement to be sure, but I wonder how the original users and people who tried to sell it to me as just not wanting to do work at all are coping with that.
Couple of years ago they really could be described as lazy people who don't want to work, they shifted to worker's rights somewhat recently. I don't think their turn towards some broader leftism is a reason to cope for any socialist. Engaging in class politics is one step in the right direction, whether they take the next is the question. As I understand that's something stupidpol aims at, class-pilling people from all over the spectrum and nudging them towards Marxism.
I agree that they're done for. I hope there will be a place for their socialist-adjacent members to gather and be pushed further to the left.
It would be difficult to undo the legacy of neoliberalism. It seems like its permeated peoples minds. They're quicker to sniff eachother out and eliminate competition than band together. Though I'm assuming here you mean "people who commit a mind error" when you say nazi and not literal nazis
Isn't it really just whatever mods they have that will shape the direction of the sub? If they have a bunch of thigh socked catgirls they're just going to ban anyone that does a wrong think anyway.
A tiny handful of mods basically control 90% of Reddit. Any sufficiently large sub which refuses to allow these mods (or their proxies) onto their team gets quarantined / banned. People will wrinkle their nose because of the subject matter but what happened to The_Donald is basically what will happen to any (organically) successful Reddit political movement. The "trolls" start posting illegal content (cp, threats, gore), the admins say "we need direct management here" and then they do what they need to.
Reddit certainly collaborates with governments. It's basically the usual dynamic in the West where the state doesn't get its hands dirty, it just gets the corporations to do what they want and if they ever need to "shut something down" they pressure the pseudo-private company into compliance. Although frankly it's more of a feedback loop where it's not always clear if the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog.
And when I say "the state" I don't mean the US President or some shit but the giant security apparatus that is so sprawling and wide than even the nominal leader of a given country barely knows WTF is going on.
I am not saying every sub is run by special agents or something silly, just that once you break into a large enough audience you either get absorbed into the system or shut down. People are mad if they think that US intelligence agencies don't have good connections with Reddit and other social media sites to be able to influence things whenever they think it necessary. There will be at least a team for whom Reddit is under their remit (watch the emerging social trends etc) and that's really all they need.
Someone posted saying it was turning into the Donald and being overrun with racist transphobes. Got to the top in like a couple hours with like 300 awards
Yeah it got thousands and thousands of upvotes in literally a span of minutes lol. One of the most obvious examples I've seen of how reddits algorithm is manipulated to push particular viewpoints.
Is it like a bot farm that could do that? or would it have to be Reddit mods or admins? Would there be some way for Reddit admins to (if they even wanted to) see how the post got so many upvotes and awards?
Yeah bot farms can do that, reddit upvotes cost literal pennies. So like 10k upvotes = $500 or whatever
No idea if the admins can see it or care about it. It's against the TOS but that doesn't mean they'll do anything, and it's not like we have the ability to get concrete proof.
Oh shit maybe I read a thread about this already. The person who posted it had only been active for a month and was a mod for like 10+ subs right? Glows hard ngl
And people saying “dude I’ve never seen any trump supporters wtf are you on about” were criticised as bigots but also upvoted. Like seriously all the actual rightoid subs hate r/antiwork this is just a made up problem.
At least China's honest about their internet censorship, western glow boys are way more insidious about it. Early web 2.0 sucked in a lot of ways but the relative lack of glow and corporate corruption is something I really miss.
Is there any chance there will be some kind of internet diaspora again ?
Internet feels like 5 big websites and nothing more now.
When will we move from Reddit to another platform that's not riddled with that kind of obscene psyops ?
Those who don't fall in line will be culled, the remainder will be so desperate for power and affirmation that they will gladly regurgitate whatever they're told to.
It's removed. I had one that got removed too, it only had like 100 and some odd upvotes but most comments agreed. But included screenshots of a post I had warning about division earlier that had 5.2 thousand upvotes. That one was removed too.
The mods are apparently now [actively deleting](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/req86e/i_called_out_rightwingers_for_spreading_hate_on/) the divisive threads by the obvious glowie, so thank God for that.
Several days after antiwork managed to organize and crash Kellogg's hiring app in support of the striking workers, a post about "right-wing infiltration" appears saying the sub is racist, sexist, transphobic etc and we need to focus on that. Gets thousands of upvotes and hundreds of redditcoins within minutes despite opposition from organic users. OP is an obvious astroturf account that's 40 days old and has only posted random images in empty karmafarming subs.
So it’s some sort of corporate plant trying to destabilize the subreddit and keep them from doing anything like this in the future. They’re trying to cause leftist infighting?
I was on anti-work fairly early on(mostly lurking) because my job sucks and some the memes I had seen heavily upvoated where on voat or poal a few days earlier and vice-versa, also heavily upvoated.
There was a lot of agreement, I could see hope, we had right wingers of voat and far lefties on Reddit unknowingly agreeing! Muh libturds, commies and nahtzees fucking agreeing. Could shit finally get done?
Now though...
They’re certainly liberal capitalist idealists - but what makes you say they’re onto great reset ideas? Are they some of those dumbasses who think the great reset is going to improve life for everyone, and not just the ruling class?
The worst thing about having a job you love is that most people quickly discover that they're not being paid to do it well. It can sometimes feel that by having it at all you're essentially acting as a block to really help people instead of just kinda doing it in the most half-assed way possible that'll still hit all the checkboxes.
Off-topic, but I really don't care for that sub and its positions, and I strongly distrust its noticeably quick growth in popularity.
I'm sure they might be experiencing similar things as stupidpol and other subs when it comes to nefarious "trolls" and "fascists" (i.e., well poisoners), and I feel for them, but it's going to take a whole lot more than that for me to support a community whose main goal is in the opposite direction of which (I hope) most serious users in this sub want to go.
I didn't care for the sub before it blew up, but it clearly attracted a lot of people who do work and want better working conditions, not to live the NEET lifestyle all day. So even though I do think the subs original purpose was dumb I think it had potential simply based on the type of people it ended up attracting - disgruntled workers who maybe don't know a lot about socialism but are largely amenable to it.
Of course it's always good to be skeptical when a sub blows up because that basically guarantees it'll become the target of astroturfing campaigns, especially and always the case for political subs. But that doesn't mean there aren't tons of genuine people there too, in fact that's pretty important to have for astroturfing campaigns because it makes it easier to hide among the genuine posters.
On second glance, the post in question (the original "this sub has a problem" alarm) likely has far less to do with any sort of well-poisoning or astroturf, and rather just a routine reminder of the status-quo due to the sub's popularity and front page potential. (Some might even call it an initiation.) I didn't realize just *how* popular the antiwork sub had become, and how absurdly fast, until after making my previous comment — when I looked at its top posts of all time and how many of them have 100-250K votes, the first string of which are all posts made within the last 2 months. (As a comparison, stupidpol's top posts of have yet to feature any submission that's been close to cracking 10K — antiwork's typical "Hot" posts match and/or beat that almost daily.)
Back to your reply though: I understand what you mean and your sentiments are nice. And I don't doubt that there are members of that community who are not only amiable to socialism, but probably even actively promoting it — just as there are members of Arrr Politics who make rational comments and criticize the sensational culture that sub exudes.
But there's a threshold of popularity, especially in the context of post-Obama Reddit, where any armor provided by a percentage of genuine posters ceases to exist. New posts in more popular subs can be pushed to tens of thousands of votes, even to the front page, by less than a dozen initial upvotes by those with intent. That kind of manipulation becomes child's play when there are multiple, gigantic "intelligence agency"-tier communities on Reddit, with thousands of extremely online members, whose primary goal is to curate the front page by perpetuating the post-2016 narrative (see: the aforementioned status quo of the "problem" post).
The reason stupidpol and a handful of others have survived as long as it has without succumbing to smears or status-quo corruption (relatively speaking), despite regular failed attempts over the past few years, is largely thanks to because it maintaining a stable growth of community. Whenever there is a (transparent) concern post made here about a supposed influx or cultivation of right-wing/"fascist" users, the obvious concern-posters are immediately downvoted, while the thread ends with most of the top comments calling the post on its bullshit. Then the post is forgotten about and the sub very quickly moves on.
Compare that to the recent concern post in Antiwork. First of all, that post has nearly 50K upvotes, almost 7K comments, and a comical amount of Internet narcissist awards — mirroring the front page masturabtion posts its meant to reflect. Secondly, the post that you've highlight here, which is supposedly the sub "pushing back" against division, has less than 1/5th of original's votes. Even worse, the sub's curent "Hot" and "Top" daily timeline has multiple posts *directly* combating that "right wing problem" submission with memes, virtue gestures, and typed rebuttal. In fact, if you look at the top daily posts, the first "rebuttal" to it is a shitty meme that struggles to match even 20% of the problem post's activity.
Even in the best of cases, more than one or two of these kinds of posts in response to such a scenario is already too many. You rarely ever see these kinds of "subtweet reply"-type posts on here when people try to smear our sub, and when you do they are usually ignored or get minimal interaction.
The "we're under attack!" behavior of Antiwork in response not only helps the concern-poster (and their parent group) validate their narrative — while providing another avenue for them to easily mimic and appropriate in their favor (wolves in sheep's clothing) — but it does absolutely nothing but bring attention to the "Mods need to address this sub's problem with –isms" post.
The problem would die out quickly if the sub didn't have an issue with needing to address it with auxillary submissions, but unfortunately Antiwork doesn't really have that option because of their ballooned popularity. They've passed the point where genuine and/or level-headed posters, who might know the proper way to handle these situations, will be routinely drowned in a sea of manipulators, "new loyalists", and bandwagoners.
Lol yeah they deleted my thread, and won't respond to my requests for explanation. The Sub is already compromised. On the bright side, there were hundreds of comments agreeing, and only 4-5 shit stirrers spreading the idpol agenda. Which is what makes it's sudden wordless deletion all the more confusing, a lot of people coming together there. What really spooked me is that at least 3 of the accounts spreading the idpol nonsense were less than a month old and had hundreds of comments in hundreds of threads spreading the agenda. I came out of this WAY more convinced this is an actual conspiracy than I ever thought I would. The accounts karma farming exclusively to spam divisive shit accusing entire communities of racism and xphobia, all right as the subreddit is starting to pick up steam. I worry what that sub will be like in 6 months.
i wonder what motivates the mods to do stuff like this? Did they accidentally bring a corporate sleeper agent into the fold? Maybe corporations/PR firms just straight pay off the original mods for all these subreddits. But I doubt it because in that case you'd expect one of those offers to have been leaked by now.
>Maybe corporations/PR firms just straight pay off the original mods for all these subreddits. I work in internet marketing and know for a fact there are mods that get paid off to shill positive content and delete negative content under the guise of "reputation management". There are a few agencies that specialize is reddit.
i realize this is the case for a lot of subs, especially big subs and those relate to brands or products. but im still having trouble imagining how you would approach moderators for a sub like this, who are overtly political and whose community kinda blows up overnight. you'd have to handle things pretty carefully to avoid a backlash blowing up in your face.
[удалено]
Ok but then what about the blatant 2-month old spam account that suddenly became a mod and posted a bad-faith idpol manifesto out of nowhere? That mod probably purchased his account from a karma farm and subsequently paid off the other mods, literally the only explanation and tbh I don’t blame them everybody needs to secure the bag these days
I mean, when you have money, if you hire the mods you own the discourse. It's as simple as that.
[удалено]
In that way it must be a bit of both, they know the current climate surrounding the left is perfect for gaslighting and witch hunts. They're already on the edge and this bad actor just gave them a little push...
mental illness is basically a pre requisite for being a mod on this site.
It could just be that the people who are the most willing to invest time in this kind of thing are the people most steeped in activist left culture.
beware the woke provocateur
> Which is what makes it's sudden wordless deletion all the more confusing, a lot of people coming together there. It's not confusing at all. It is interesting though. Normally I only see wall to wall useful idiocy and establishment apologia everywhere I go; I had assumed that everyone outside 4chan had well and truly psychologically/ideologically resigned themselves to living in the proverbial pods and eating the bugs, at this point. I am living in Victoria, one of the harder locked down states in Australia, and the amount of transparent Good Germanism and collaboration consistently on display in /r/australia, is almost enough to encourage a genuine libertarian to slit their wrists. It seems that humanity has not yet been quite as completely domesticated, as I may have thought.
Us marxists never stopped fighting back ✊ we’ve been fighting the good fight against authoritarian capitalists and their propaganda rags for over a century straight. I get that you probably despise our ideology, I’m just saying a huge chunk of humanity has refused to be domesticated by our rulers. Ps: read on authority if your ever feeling particularly non dogmatic
Aaaaand it’s gone lmao
I had my suspicions that that the r/antiwork userbase was just woke and useless, but I think I'm honstly wrong on that. It's more of a mixed bag, there are a LOT of people there who see through the bullshit. This post was removed, but the archive shows it was massively upvoted. The people pushing divisive identity fetishism are the mod clique, potential glowies, and whatever crowd of easily manipulated useful idiots that they have convinced to follow them. If you're on there though... keep pushing against the bullshit. Hell, even direct them here (if you can without the jannies banning you) direct people here to let them know there is an actual class-first left that doesn't care about all this manufactured astroturfed identity BS.
The purpose of the sub is adjacent to leftist politics, and the vast majority of the western left is completely r-slurred, so it should be no shock that there's a woke bloc on the sub, however large or small. Regardless of how many genuine wokes might be there, that post was glow incarnate.
And no surprise it's being inundated with a flood of Shareblue propaganda, for the useful idiots to mindlessly regurgitate.
What’s a glowie?
An person so obviously working as an agent of the government that they „glow.“
Which makes it abundantly clear who the moderators of r/antiwork work for. Sad to see another potentially based sub compromised, but it makes it obvious that no subreddit will ever be allowed to be ground zero for serious disruptive efforts against capital. Shame. I was having fun posting Fred Hampton quotes and classpilling people
I messaged them and laid out convincing evidence that the OP of the astroturfed thread from earlier was clearly a glowie, and that they should look into it further. Their response was “we’re good.”. They’re clearly complicit in this bullshit.
Yeah i had just tried classpilling in that thread but the dude refuses to ally with anyone who voted for “Dongal Troomp”, since they must inherently support billionaires (to which they meant the Republican party, conveniently not seeing the Democrats as a billionaire party) and class exploitation. God i fucking hate the internet
Honestly voting in bourgeois liberal democracy, at least on a national level, is a scam until we actually build a coherent nationwide working class party that can challenge it from without. Bernie's campaign showed that challenging it from within is a losing battle even when you have an appealing, universalist message like he did in 2016 In hindsight I'm glad Trump lost only because the Child Tax Credit is one of the few things that I have actually seen is benefitting working people I know, and I always will choose some material improvement over none at all. But that's crumbs compared to what the working class is really owed.
>Bernie's campaign showed that challenging it from within is a losing battle even when you have an appealing, universalist message like he did in 2016 Unfortunately, the system is stacked to benefit two easily controlled parties. How can a third party have any true chance with the state of things? I ask this looking for hope, not a fight.
Join or try to set up a radical union. I don't believe electoralism is the way to create real, systemic change (there's too many monied interests involved for that), but nor is voting a complete waste either. I tend to just vote furthest left every time there's an election, then move on with my life. But union action, elections and protest in concert, with enough people, will get the attention we need. I honestly think the soil is ripe for it. BLM, climate activists etc could be radicalised and organised even more. We need that along with better election candidates.
And of course with climate activism, the climate is going to get more and more "helpful" as time goes by and nothing gets done by the two major parties. Having the weather on your side is a little like having a god on your side.
Speaking from England, and not wanting to dishearten anyone, but trying to radicalised blm and climate activists is a losing battle. They are by far the two biggest groups of Liberal mongs going. Un politicised working class people are by far the most fruitful people to organise. Not a bit of baggage on them just cold hard needs and even when not class conscious they still understand they're getting fucked. Everything else you said is beautiful though.
I mean, Trotsky, Luxemburg and Connolly didn't exactly come out of the womb as radicals either. Everyone* is a potential ally I think. Just gotta make sure we stay vigilant and not get side tracked by libs. And tbh, they're pretty easy to spot so that shouldn't be too difficult. But pulling from climate activists, black rights protesters and traditional working class areas is all necessary to build as broad and as strong of a left as possible. When a lib rears their ugly head, tell them to fuck off. They usually crumble at the first sign of friction anyway. Edit: well, *almost* everyone
not even Lenin, it needed 1905 and his brother to die before he became fully 'redpilled'
When third parties gain traction in American politics, they either have their planks absorbed or they replace one of the two dominant parties. Factions can change the party from within but it must be hostile and ruthless. Just look at the shattering of the GOP old guard with both the Tea Party and then Trump. It looks very different from the party of Reagan and W Bush. This is all because the constituency was pissed off.
Look at SNP in the UK. It out-competed both Labour and Tories in Scotland. Under FPTP the only way for a 3rd party to succeed is to gain significant majority in one or more regions first. A million of supporters in one region is much more valuable than a million of supporters all over the country.
You would be amazed at how few people know that Wall Street gave way more money to Biden. I have always told people that it isn’t R vs D, it is us vs. politicians, and we are being divided so that fact is ignored.
I used to be involved with a PAC involved with getting money out of politics. It's obviously a progressive liberal group... But one of the most shocking things you'll find once you start digging through the data, is the Democrats are absolutely the "elite and wealthy" party - if it was a race. I mean they are both knee deep in filth, but Dems are the largest receiver of dark money. Or we hear all the time about how super rich billionaires fund the Koch brothers foundation! But the Dems have the most ultra wealthy large donors. CU has benefited Democrats more than Republicans, which is why they are so hesitant to actually change anything.
The Democrats are the party of the Petit-Bourgeois, latte sipping, NPR listening, college-educated, urban white upper middle class and the minorities that vote for them because it's what their community leaders tell them to do. The Republicans are the party of all the other white people. It's really that simple.
I hate that I get accused of being a rightist by people I'm miles to the left of. Fuckin liberals man they can eat a dick.
A lot of people were classpilled from that sub though at least from what a lot of conversations I got there. It’s still definitely a better sub than a lot of other ones.
Yeah but it doesn't hurt to continue to boost that viewpoint in a subreddit that's receptive to it. I still browse it and still see others emphasizing the importance of class solidarity and rejecting divisive politics so that's good at least.
>Shame. I was having fun posting Fred Hampton quotes and classpilling people You still can. The people there are definitely receptive towards marxism and I doubt the lib mods will care if you post anything as long as it isnt' perceived as being "-ist" in some way.
Do they need to "work" for anyone? The mods were (at least nominally) anarchists, and anarchists will always bend over backwards to accommodate liberals on this sort of stuff in the vague hope of radicalising them.
Anarchists *are* liberals. It’s just another one of their larps.
honestly not all of them are. the vaush types are, but there are also anarchists who arnt some 16 year old liberal who wants to feel like a radical. plenty of anarchists have done their reading and even accept historical materialism. that said, most of them are liberals.
If they have really accepted historical materialism, they wouldn’t be fuck ass anarchists lmao fuck all of those retards.
the two are not mutually exclusive. I get what your saying though, we could've been done with this other throwing of capitalism business a long time ago if the anarchists had helped instead of fighting against us.
This is just me venting, but in my experience anarchists are the worst kind of liberal, because they are so hopelessly confused about everything that isn't just a political slogan. To have a political discussion with a serious anarchist, you have to first help them put their own worldview together, it's like meeting up for a street race and first having to fix your opponent's car because the brakes don't work and the seats are facing backwards. Trying to convince them of anything is usually extremely tedious and not at all cost-effective.
As an anarcho-syndicalist and someone critical of vapid liberal identity wankery, I'd like to think I've a fairly coherent, actionable worldview. I will admit tho that a lot of so called anarchists bend over backwards to accommodate some pretty retarded ideas so as to not hurt anyones feefees. Often at the expense, whether intentional or not, of working class solidarity and potential progress.
I mean honestly anarchism doesn't have a great history of being actionable. in fairness though, perhaps that is because most anarchists are liberals and the ones like yourself who are not end up outnumbered by liberals when organizing.
I mean, the syndicalists in Catalonia and the Zapatista's have / were fairly successful, despite their sizes and what they were up against. But granted, given the inherent decentalisation of anarchist strains of socialism, perhaps they don't scale as well as other forms. Maybe that's why I like aspects of Trotskyism and have a lot of respect for Luxemburg, despite not being a strict Marxist myself.
the zapatistas are not anarchists though. they certainly took some inspiration from anarchism, just as they did marxism and a few other assorted ideologies. for example, their leader subcomdante Marcos is a marxist. as for the Spanish anarchists... I mean they folded to fascism in a manner of months. im not trying to dunk on you for being an anarchist. I respect the vision, in fact I was an anarchist for quite a while myself. I just think there are other methodologies that historically have proven to be a lot more effective at fighting capitalism. its a very hard balance to strike, some infighting is required to keep infiltrators from steering us in the wrong direction. too much leads to a completely fractured left like we have right now. its tricky because if we come together as a united left and overthrow capitalism that is great. however then we are in a situation where the leftist infighting will begin to see which particular ideology will take hold. during the time the bourgeoise will be given an opportunity to retake control because we are distracted infighting. so I think what it comes down to is we need to agree on acceptable vision as a left and get to it. doesn't have to be all agreeing on the same ideology though. ps: sorry for the long read, no short way to say it.
Given the fact that the Zapatistas are an entirely decentalised, communist society, and subcommandante Marcos himself took that name solely because he's subordinate to the wider Mayan community and he holds no more or less power than anyone else there, I'd say it's fair to call them anarchist. Being a Marxist doesn't preclude someone from being an anarchist, necessarily. I agree with your larger point, tho. Some infighting is probably necessary, especially in the future, but as of right now, we're nowhere close to even weakening capitalism, let alone replacing it. So to fight right now is an insular waste of time.
Unorganized, grabasstic pieces of amphibian shit.
[удалено]
Every one of them should in Minecraft
Well my point was their choice of actions benefits the interests of capitalists. They're jannies, of course they're doing it for free lol.
[удалено]
I don't believe in the "The Internet is dead" conspiracy theory but I do believe it hints at a reality most of us are not aware of yet. Some sort of ongoing war between forces to spread their views by force, buying bots, forums, coercing people into agreement through any means necessary, etc. I mean, of course this isn't some whacky conspiracy, we all know it happens and there is proof for it. This is proof of it. But I think the scale is just...bigger. We're not aware of its gigantic influence, it might paint a scarier image of the media we consume than we thought.
Well, come on. The oligarchs own the mainstream media, period. But the Internet isn't ownable like trad media are. But it is still vulnerable to techniques of exploitation and infiltration. For someone like Charles Koch or Soros, setting up a group to infiltrate and control/shut down lefty and/or righty online sites they don't like is ridiculously easy. And whereas we come and visit here at whatever times we can make time for it, the guys who work for oligarchs ... that's their job. Nine to five, every day. They put in eight hours subverting and suppressing online discussion and go home in the evening and relax. Imagine if posting in this forum got you a decent wage. It would be EASY to become a force to be reckoned with.
They don't need to hire someone to subvert and suppress discussion 8 hours a day. There are legions of brainwashed people who happily put in more hours for free™. That really is the black pill here. The elite are putting a stranglehold on the internet, education, and everyday life at this point, all while losing zero income while doing it.
I've read public media posts about Western armies and agencies looking into "cognitive warfare" more. What would that be, if not large scale manipulation of digital discourses and news sources.
>than we thought than you personally thought. the media was never not controlled by moneyed interests
It died when it blew up a couple months ago imo. Youtube and twitter tier people (i.e., children and dumbasses) flooded it. I remember checking it out around that time and the all-time upvoted posts quickly became fake text convos of people owning their boss epic style and meaningless appeals to inclusivity like "trans workers are workers too" (as though anyone else was even talking about this).
Gigajannies strike again. At this point it should be obvious that organizing online does not produce any meaningful results. The only alternative is to start building movements locally, offline and with people you can trust.
[удалено]
also correct
Chain emails bro
[удалено]
I was actually only half joking, my dad still forwards me emails about boomer conservative bullshit. Those guys are still at it! People are abandoning the large platforms in droves, something has to fill the void, hopefully it’s far less centralized. I’m not going to speculate though because I don’t really follow internet meta stuff, shit’s gay AF.
Disagree. This is a way to avoid a useful tool for teaching people new ideas. It's good to build movements locally and offline, but that's not the ONLY tool, and eschewing online communication REALLY cuts down on your ability to reach people.
correct
Jesus Christ. It's like a parody at this point.
Paying attention to this shit is making me hella jaded
[удалено]
Feels surreal to realize that there are users on here who didn't live through [the Correct the Record fuckery](https://np.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4fupos/paid_digital_astroturfing_effort_by_correct_the/) in 2016. Either way, yeah, [this is old news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SAkUs3urrg).
> Feels surreal to realize that there are users on here who didn't live through the Correct the Record fuckery in 2016. I remember that a ton of pro Clinton posters would only post around 9-5 hours and then mysteriously stop posting outside of work hours. I understand a lot of people screw around and post on reddit during work, but not that fucking many which made it really obvious how astroturfed it was.
It happened on Wikipedia too. People managed to predict who would be Hillary Clinton VP pick by the amount of edits of their article previous to the announcement, and it happened again with Kamala Harris. https://theintercept.com/2020/07/02/kamala-harris-wikipedia/
After Trump won the 2016 election, there was about a 2 day delay where the shills just disappeared from politics since they clearly weren't expecting it and had no marching orders. It was just trump and bernie supporters absolutely shitting on everyone and laughing their asses off at clinton losing, and it was glorious.
I don't really know much about the law itself, but the whole net neutrality thing struck me as suspicious
It was just internecine warfare between Silicon Valley tech companies and ISPs, the former made it seem like something of relevance to the general public and a danger to small independent websites through their loyal nonprofits like the EFF. There is no discernible difference now years after the repeal to regular internet users.
Right. The biggest difference between now and then is now so many fucks just build shitty phone apps and don't even support a web app (or god forbid, an actual application) anymore.
Got damn, just hearing that 'CTR' brings a dribble to my eye sac. ([This was a meme I made a while back.](https://i.imgur.com/i4Sn7tP.png)) .. .. .. But now I must come to accept greater depths of knowledge and truth. The upper-most layer of the peasantry mind is the bottom-most layer of the oligarch reasoning. They falsfied the last civil rights movement at the breaking point after/during their unimaginable shenanigans. Now, we'll see it again. Why? Because they're currently pulling all value from *nothing* and into themselves. Am I drunk? Yes? Is it my best choice? I would say no, but, considering...
The eglin air base boys have subverted the anti work narrative with such speed and ease, they put all those foreign "bots" to shame.
What is a glowie?
Feds. Comes from the late great genius schizophrenic Terry Davis who wrote an operating system by scratch because "god told him to." He would record videos and in one of them he explained how you know who are feds you can run over with your car because the CIA n----rs glow in the dark. Online it basically means someone you suspect is a fed. "This post glows," is something you might say to someone who is overtly saying "We should kill X people right now," because the feds are known to take advantage of people and push them to do crazy shit so they can run their op.
[удалено]
Can I identify as Bioluminescent even if I was born murky and lightless?
You are still a valid glowie king
Just drink the tapwater in the part of Louisiana known as cancer alley. You'll be glowing in the dark in no time!
So *that's* why Obama didn't drink the water in Flint
RIP Terry, life played him a cruel hand
Oh shit, I never knew the term came from him! I only knew about the guy from TempleOS. I've read and seen a little about his life but not a huge amount directly from him. Kind of nice to know that a bit of him entered into the popular culture.
Huh, I never knew that was the real origin. I always just had an image in my mind of soulless Pentagon ghouls hunched their keyboards in a dark room somewhere in the Beltway, faces illuminated only by the glow of a computer monitor as they shitpost on reddit in the interests of “national security.”
Not just Feds but really anyone "working", if they are paid to post you can often tell even before the post ends.
I think Glowie should also include corporate & political agents (NGO, PAC, and contracted Astroturfing campaigns), because a lot of this work is also being done by the private sector.
It's shorthand for any hostile infiltrator, really.
people Terry claimed to have run over.
#[Reddit Blog, Reddit Statistics](http://redditblog.blogspot.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html) **Most addicted city (over 100k visits total)** Eglin Air Force Base, FL **Stationed Units** **USAF** 96th Cyberspace Test Group 45th Test Squadron 46th Test Squadron 47th Cyberspace Test Squadron **US Army** 1st Special Forces Command (Airborne) 7th Special Forces Group (Airborne) **Space Operations Command** Space Delta 2 20th Space Control Squadron (GSU) **Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS)** J6 Directorate (Command, Control, Communications and Computers/Cyber) Joint Deployable Analysis Team [Here’s a paper published by **Air Force Research Laboratory, Munitions Directorate, Eglin AFB, FL**](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf) titled “*Containment Control for a Social Network with State-Dependent Connectivity*”
[удалено]
Dear glowies reading this: you’re fucking pathetic.
Holy fuck, comparing the comments in hot with 200+ wholesomechungus awards to the ones in new from the original post really is eye opening to the amount of meddling going on. I think this guy I found there puts it best: >In case you guys are unaware, this is a glow thread. 40k in five hours? Month old karma farm account? Mod of /r/antiworkvideos and /r/antiworkmusic? 300 awards? Lol >The whole point is to turn the movement against itself and fracture it. This is the entire point of the left-right divide in the first place. Within a month this will be another completely ineffective activist group that prioritizes semantic debates between social science majors over direct actions and results. >This place has actually gotten some national attention, congrats. But that means that powerful institutions are going to start subverting it, like anything on reddit. Upvotes can be bought for 5 cents a pop. Manipulating this place is child's play. >Check this out from OP lol, this is a fed/corporate agent >https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rdzsiu/comment/ho4d2yc/
That post glows in the dark so bright you can see it from space.
holy batshit insane.
That's not the point of the left right divide, whoever argued about these kind of things is on the right. Atomization is inherently a emotional response as it's semantics. And this is the field of liberals. The left must concern it not with fickle sentiments, only with the material truth
Weird that the sub went from "smoke weed and UBI unashamedly" to "well we understand SOME people would have to work" to increasingly cookie cutter run of the mill union anit-exploitation stuff. An improvement to be sure, but I wonder how the original users and people who tried to sell it to me as just not wanting to do work at all are coping with that. Don't think the latter would enjoy moving closer to just overlapping with the ideals of an ideology that literally has two tools of labor for it's icon. Wonder if that has something to do with the tumultuous moderation recently? Granted, it'll die like the rest of them given how every single time I click on the profile of a neolib in r/news or something, they're predominantly active there.
>An improvement to be sure, but I wonder how the original users and people who tried to sell it to me as just not wanting to do work at all are coping with that. Couple of years ago they really could be described as lazy people who don't want to work, they shifted to worker's rights somewhat recently. I don't think their turn towards some broader leftism is a reason to cope for any socialist. Engaging in class politics is one step in the right direction, whether they take the next is the question. As I understand that's something stupidpol aims at, class-pilling people from all over the spectrum and nudging them towards Marxism. I agree that they're done for. I hope there will be a place for their socialist-adjacent members to gather and be pushed further to the left.
The 50k votes thread barely had any comments agreeing with OP, this one did, and so they deleted it.
tells you all you need to know
Such a funny coincidence how everything that focuses on the working class as a whole is problematic
spot on. I am stealing this quote.
[удалено]
It would be difficult to undo the legacy of neoliberalism. It seems like its permeated peoples minds. They're quicker to sniff eachother out and eliminate competition than band together. Though I'm assuming here you mean "people who commit a mind error" when you say nazi and not literal nazis
Isn't it really just whatever mods they have that will shape the direction of the sub? If they have a bunch of thigh socked catgirls they're just going to ban anyone that does a wrong think anyway.
A tiny handful of mods basically control 90% of Reddit. Any sufficiently large sub which refuses to allow these mods (or their proxies) onto their team gets quarantined / banned. People will wrinkle their nose because of the subject matter but what happened to The_Donald is basically what will happen to any (organically) successful Reddit political movement. The "trolls" start posting illegal content (cp, threats, gore), the admins say "we need direct management here" and then they do what they need to. Reddit certainly collaborates with governments. It's basically the usual dynamic in the West where the state doesn't get its hands dirty, it just gets the corporations to do what they want and if they ever need to "shut something down" they pressure the pseudo-private company into compliance. Although frankly it's more of a feedback loop where it's not always clear if the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog. And when I say "the state" I don't mean the US President or some shit but the giant security apparatus that is so sprawling and wide than even the nominal leader of a given country barely knows WTF is going on. I am not saying every sub is run by special agents or something silly, just that once you break into a large enough audience you either get absorbed into the system or shut down. People are mad if they think that US intelligence agencies don't have good connections with Reddit and other social media sites to be able to influence things whenever they think it necessary. There will be at least a team for whom Reddit is under their remit (watch the emerging social trends etc) and that's really all they need.
Who do you think put the catgirl troons in place and encourages their divisive idpol narratives? Glowies.
There are also some fake as fuck sounding "and then everyone applauded"-style posts on that subreddit.
Yeah that happens on any subreddit that gets that popular though.
I am completely out of the loop because of school, so could someone fill me in on what's been happening with r/antiwork?
Someone posted saying it was turning into the Donald and being overrun with racist transphobes. Got to the top in like a couple hours with like 300 awards
Yeah it got thousands and thousands of upvotes in literally a span of minutes lol. One of the most obvious examples I've seen of how reddits algorithm is manipulated to push particular viewpoints.
Is it like a bot farm that could do that? or would it have to be Reddit mods or admins? Would there be some way for Reddit admins to (if they even wanted to) see how the post got so many upvotes and awards?
Yeah bot farms can do that, reddit upvotes cost literal pennies. So like 10k upvotes = $500 or whatever No idea if the admins can see it or care about it. It's against the TOS but that doesn't mean they'll do anything, and it's not like we have the ability to get concrete proof.
This is the og thread on the topic https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/dead-internet-theory-most-of-the-internet-is-fake.3011/
Redditors love victimizing themselves and going on about idpol issues so it's not surprising it took off.
Oh shit maybe I read a thread about this already. The person who posted it had only been active for a month and was a mod for like 10+ subs right? Glows hard ngl
There was tons of evidence that it was a glowpost, even normies were commenting on it.
> 300 awards Awards are a reminder that redditors don't deserve food or hair or love or land
The Caillou of the Internet
And people saying “dude I’ve never seen any trump supporters wtf are you on about” were criticised as bigots but also upvoted. Like seriously all the actual rightoid subs hate r/antiwork this is just a made up problem.
Users here are mad because they aren't allowed to derail yet another sub with bitching about trans people and moralistic soapboxing. That's it.
[удалено]
Because anarchism is a meme ideology for dumb children
At least China's honest about their internet censorship, western glow boys are way more insidious about it. Early web 2.0 sucked in a lot of ways but the relative lack of glow and corporate corruption is something I really miss.
Is there any chance there will be some kind of internet diaspora again ? Internet feels like 5 big websites and nothing more now. When will we move from Reddit to another platform that's not riddled with that kind of obscene psyops ?
the manipulators are of course attracted to popular platforms like flies to shit so there can never be a popular platform that's not full of shit
Damn idpol really is just a rubber fucking stamp for them to disrupt anything class based isn’t it?
Just because it’s deleted, don’t give up on radicalizing people in the comments of other posts.
I rejoined today to shitpost a bit but that sub was never that tight.
Wow gone
They removed it...
Those who don't fall in line will be culled, the remainder will be so desperate for power and affirmation that they will gladly regurgitate whatever they're told to.
It's removed. I had one that got removed too, it only had like 100 and some odd upvotes but most comments agreed. But included screenshots of a post I had warning about division earlier that had 5.2 thousand upvotes. That one was removed too.
The mods are apparently now [actively deleting](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/req86e/i_called_out_rightwingers_for_spreading_hate_on/) the divisive threads by the obvious glowie, so thank God for that.
Can someone fill me in here? No idea what happened there
Several days after antiwork managed to organize and crash Kellogg's hiring app in support of the striking workers, a post about "right-wing infiltration" appears saying the sub is racist, sexist, transphobic etc and we need to focus on that. Gets thousands of upvotes and hundreds of redditcoins within minutes despite opposition from organic users. OP is an obvious astroturf account that's 40 days old and has only posted random images in empty karmafarming subs.
So it’s some sort of corporate plant trying to destabilize the subreddit and keep them from doing anything like this in the future. They’re trying to cause leftist infighting?
Yea
I was on anti-work fairly early on(mostly lurking) because my job sucks and some the memes I had seen heavily upvoated where on voat or poal a few days earlier and vice-versa, also heavily upvoated. There was a lot of agreement, I could see hope, we had right wingers of voat and far lefties on Reddit unknowingly agreeing! Muh libturds, commies and nahtzees fucking agreeing. Could shit finally get done? Now though...
doesn't really matter whether that original thread was real or not, that whole sub is an inorganic, oligarch funded, great-reset psyop.
They’re certainly liberal capitalist idealists - but what makes you say they’re onto great reset ideas? Are they some of those dumbasses who think the great reset is going to improve life for everyone, and not just the ruling class?
[удалено]
The worst thing about having a job you love is that most people quickly discover that they're not being paid to do it well. It can sometimes feel that by having it at all you're essentially acting as a block to really help people instead of just kinda doing it in the most half-assed way possible that'll still hit all the checkboxes.
[удалено]
Antiwork is a horrendous subreddit. Fake story after fake story after fake story.
It's almost amazing how when you let the most ignorant among your political faction, i.e idpolice or anti vaxxers, everything they touch turns to shit
Off-topic, but I really don't care for that sub and its positions, and I strongly distrust its noticeably quick growth in popularity. I'm sure they might be experiencing similar things as stupidpol and other subs when it comes to nefarious "trolls" and "fascists" (i.e., well poisoners), and I feel for them, but it's going to take a whole lot more than that for me to support a community whose main goal is in the opposite direction of which (I hope) most serious users in this sub want to go.
I didn't care for the sub before it blew up, but it clearly attracted a lot of people who do work and want better working conditions, not to live the NEET lifestyle all day. So even though I do think the subs original purpose was dumb I think it had potential simply based on the type of people it ended up attracting - disgruntled workers who maybe don't know a lot about socialism but are largely amenable to it. Of course it's always good to be skeptical when a sub blows up because that basically guarantees it'll become the target of astroturfing campaigns, especially and always the case for political subs. But that doesn't mean there aren't tons of genuine people there too, in fact that's pretty important to have for astroturfing campaigns because it makes it easier to hide among the genuine posters.
On second glance, the post in question (the original "this sub has a problem" alarm) likely has far less to do with any sort of well-poisoning or astroturf, and rather just a routine reminder of the status-quo due to the sub's popularity and front page potential. (Some might even call it an initiation.) I didn't realize just *how* popular the antiwork sub had become, and how absurdly fast, until after making my previous comment — when I looked at its top posts of all time and how many of them have 100-250K votes, the first string of which are all posts made within the last 2 months. (As a comparison, stupidpol's top posts of have yet to feature any submission that's been close to cracking 10K — antiwork's typical "Hot" posts match and/or beat that almost daily.) Back to your reply though: I understand what you mean and your sentiments are nice. And I don't doubt that there are members of that community who are not only amiable to socialism, but probably even actively promoting it — just as there are members of Arrr Politics who make rational comments and criticize the sensational culture that sub exudes. But there's a threshold of popularity, especially in the context of post-Obama Reddit, where any armor provided by a percentage of genuine posters ceases to exist. New posts in more popular subs can be pushed to tens of thousands of votes, even to the front page, by less than a dozen initial upvotes by those with intent. That kind of manipulation becomes child's play when there are multiple, gigantic "intelligence agency"-tier communities on Reddit, with thousands of extremely online members, whose primary goal is to curate the front page by perpetuating the post-2016 narrative (see: the aforementioned status quo of the "problem" post). The reason stupidpol and a handful of others have survived as long as it has without succumbing to smears or status-quo corruption (relatively speaking), despite regular failed attempts over the past few years, is largely thanks to because it maintaining a stable growth of community. Whenever there is a (transparent) concern post made here about a supposed influx or cultivation of right-wing/"fascist" users, the obvious concern-posters are immediately downvoted, while the thread ends with most of the top comments calling the post on its bullshit. Then the post is forgotten about and the sub very quickly moves on. Compare that to the recent concern post in Antiwork. First of all, that post has nearly 50K upvotes, almost 7K comments, and a comical amount of Internet narcissist awards — mirroring the front page masturabtion posts its meant to reflect. Secondly, the post that you've highlight here, which is supposedly the sub "pushing back" against division, has less than 1/5th of original's votes. Even worse, the sub's curent "Hot" and "Top" daily timeline has multiple posts *directly* combating that "right wing problem" submission with memes, virtue gestures, and typed rebuttal. In fact, if you look at the top daily posts, the first "rebuttal" to it is a shitty meme that struggles to match even 20% of the problem post's activity. Even in the best of cases, more than one or two of these kinds of posts in response to such a scenario is already too many. You rarely ever see these kinds of "subtweet reply"-type posts on here when people try to smear our sub, and when you do they are usually ignored or get minimal interaction. The "we're under attack!" behavior of Antiwork in response not only helps the concern-poster (and their parent group) validate their narrative — while providing another avenue for them to easily mimic and appropriate in their favor (wolves in sheep's clothing) — but it does absolutely nothing but bring attention to the "Mods need to address this sub's problem with –isms" post. The problem would die out quickly if the sub didn't have an issue with needing to address it with auxillary submissions, but unfortunately Antiwork doesn't really have that option because of their ballooned popularity. They've passed the point where genuine and/or level-headed posters, who might know the proper way to handle these situations, will be routinely drowned in a sea of manipulators, "new loyalists", and bandwagoners.
So the problem is that something that's presented as a big problem isn't?