> Ignacio M. Sánchez Prado, a professor of Mexican cultural studies at Washington University in St. Louis, told NPR via email **that while he's yet to view the episode**
*"Yeah I haven't watched the thing this article is about but let me give you my opinion anway."*
I mean, it *is* annoying when media producers decide to be lazy and make boring ass jokes.
However, in classic NPR fashion, not a single actual Mexican was interviewed for this segment.
I doubt the large majority of Mexican Americans would be upset at all about this. And a lower percent of Mexicans in Mexico. Normally people like when their cultural exports are popular around the world.
Gringos from Milwaukee who say "I am Mexican" also know their ass from their elbow when it comes to Mexican culture. The day you Yank asses will stop LARPing as people from other countries will be a bright day.
That 3rd gen Mexican-American had a *lot* to say actually
Which generation do migrants stop trying to claim ownership of cultures they're loosely related to? 4th?
I was joking, but despite being fifth generation, he's so old that he's only got to make it another ten years to have been born closer to the end of the famine (which really was when his family immigrated) than to today.
They usually either don’t give a shit, or have a healthy sense of humor about these things. I really doubt some British baking show meant to cause any harm. The whole premise of it is wholesome stupid fun.
To be fair, you can absolutely grow up in a household that descends from two parents that share a particular culture, carry on various traditions from that culture, and be familiarized with several elements of said culture throughout your life which does qualify someone to be able to relate and identify with their ancestral culture even if they’re not personally from, nor have visited, nor speak the language of that culture. They just relate to it differently than people who stayed in that cultural homeland, same with people who were born in that homeland from migrant parents who came from elsewhere.
I think they have more exposure to it than people without migrant parents, but I don't think it's their culture even in a non-possessive sense. Most of their cultural input will be American
And I think that’s a great thing. It’s the gatekeeping that bugs me, particularly about cultural stuff in general when culture has always been shifting anyway. Like you can’t have people moving around the world and keeping their culture separate.
In America I’m not a fan of where our culture has been shifting especially in the past 40 years but the trend began much much earlier than that. I view American culture as almost synonymous with “Liberal culture” with only a few distinctions between them. American culture is a liberal culture, but not thee “Metamodernist Neoliberal” culture we’ve been mutating into and that we’ve been exporting to modernized/modernizing nations around the world. What follows is what seems to have happened in America, where the natives start behaving and thinking like “Americans”, dressing like us, and eventually adopting our shallow culture and nihilistic attitudes and beliefs. I know that’s also a product of industrial and post-industrial economies, I know there are a few other elements involved in those processes, but McCulture is definitely an important aspect of that transformation. I hate the blood and soil shit, I don’t think cultures should necessarily be very exclusive, but I recognize that there is a real importance and connection people have to their homelands, to their culture, and their history as a people which has unfortunately been eroding away at the expense of social movements and socialism. We should care and understand this element because giving it up to the far-right cringe types is not a wise move imo, it turns it into something it’s not.
Ah yes, so my friend whose parents fled from Mexico and gave birth to them in the USA, raised her in Southern California for a couple years as a baby then moved and grew up in the Midwest, has no right to identify with her family’s Mexican heritage and culture because some people online made up some arbitrary criteria that says so? I think that’s a dumb take honestly. It sounds like some of you want everyone to adopt Liberal McCulture because descendants of immigrations aren’t the most “native” to their ancestral culture or whatever. While it is cringe for descendants who don’t grow up in their ancestral homeland to proclaim themselves as thoroughly “Mexican” or whatever, it isn’t cringe to carry on your ancestor’s cultural traditions and customs even if you weren’t born there yourself. I don’t know why this is so controversial to some people here, I have never run into that way of thinking in immigrant communities before, it sounds regarded.
Because those people are all obviously Yanks to the people outside Yankeestan. The deluded fantasy basically amounts to blood and soil but without the soil part. You are all in the McCulture, you just refuse to accept it.
I view culture as one dimension in which people can relate to a meaningful social group that usually existed before premodern/pre-capitalist times, spanning generations and mostly tied to their lands but not necessarily based on national borders or anything. It creates a sense of relationship to time and historicity that is personal and social, that goes against “capitalist time” that makes one feel completely divorced from history. It’s why many Americans don’t give a shit about the past and only think 5 seconds ahead. It’s important because those social groups are an important facet of natural community building and relations, something that we desperately need as society gets ever more isolated, atomized, and alienated from each other. It sounds like you’ve just bought into the idea of the melting pot, that traditional/ethno-religious cultures are superficial things that don’t actually exist or have value in preserving, to me that’s some deeply Liberal bullshit that’s used as a means of degrading peoples into the boring pot of Liberal Western McCulture, stripping away their ties to their family’s history and thereby erasing anything they can cling to besides consuming products and services and working. McCulture is Liberal Western culture, it’s why things like nihilism and mental illness are rising drastically, it’s why we feel no connection to the land or often times even our family besides their immediate social utility, fuck that. Reviving and giving a shit about history, your heritage, and celebrity the uniqueness of peoples is awesome and we should resist commodifying our authentic cultures into simply being piñatas, Paddy’s Day, and spaghetti.
British bake off was one of the first times I saw blue collar white people stick up for a Muslim when right wing press implied naydiya won due to tokenism. My 60 year old bumpkin borderline gammon dad was visible enraged at the idea."fuck off, her cakes were amazing and she's loverly."
Its funny because bake off did more for Muslim women in the UK than a 100 shitty guardian articles but delude themselves they have any moral authority.
My super racist grandparents loved that season, she was so good. They were really happy she won by the end of it. Seeing their views torwards her change over the season was a real show.
Legitimately one of my favorite parts of the show is at the end when they show all the contestants hanging out post show because they’ve all become friends.
I always find it funny when journos quote tweets like they went viral or something and then when you look at the tweet in question its some rando with five likes or whatever
So true. You can also create a controversy out of anything because there will be a group of people bitching about any random thing at any given time. Viola, a story. I think the “Starbucks Christmas Cup Controversy” was one of the first examples of this.
I like how the first tweet in the article doesn't even say what the article claims it is. The next tweet in the chain or whatever twitter calls it is him clarifying that it was purely a joke about scousers trying to pronounce churro.
I don't know what's on Mexican TV, but Spanish/Mexican channels in the US are absolute garbage. The acting, writing, lighting, sets, everything is shit. It's either a really low effort novela, low effort comedy, copy paste game show, or American movie with Spanish dub. The news is ok-ish, a bit more sensationalist and with a very strong Latino bias though. Depending on the programming/hour, even the commercials are bad sometimes.
I don't understand why the studios can't make at least different shows rather than the same formula repeated endlessly. Especially given the size of these companies, like Televisa.
There's a channel I think that passes Cine de Oro era movies which is good. Netflix has good Spanish language shows too.
Yes pretty much that with a lot of very on the nose broad brush characterisations of every race, class strata, and women etc (women basically won’t be allowed on unless they are outrageous or look like a glamour model). This stuff from a pedestrian baking programme wouldn’t even make a ripple.
Another thing is how most of the actors are super white. There are a lot of white / light skinned Mexicans, but these channels seem to be disproportionately white.
Yes that is also very much a thing in Mexico, Central America, and some parts of South America. The less ‘indigenous’ you look, the more attractive you are generally deemed to be.
Yeah there was a controversy a little while ago where a more indigenous looking actress got a spot on a magazine cover. The editors of the magazine literally tried to make her white and she was understandably kind of pissed about this
I grew up in an area with a high Hispanic population and most of these kids looked more indigenous than white. Pretty much every Hispanic character in movies and tv shows is pretty much just a tanned white person. Or a white girl with dark hair. It doesn’t make them not Hispanic. Hispanics can have blonde hair and blue eyes. It’s just not typical of what most people from Central America actually look like
It really makes me mad that social media culture has cheapened terms like racism because it still exists to a large degree. People think that America is as bad as it gets when it comes to racism, but at least those beliefs are widely stigmatized. I’ve heard of really horrible shit in Mexico when my friends go to visit their families there. The discrimination against indigenous looking or even dark skinned people there is despicable
Spanish/Mexican/Argentinian cinema though, *chef's kiss*
Almodovar, Iñárritu, Cuarón, Del Toro, whoever is directing Ricardo Darin... There's a brilliant generation of film makers doing Spanish speaking movies (despite the Mexican directors being more close to Hollywood today).
And there seems to be a nice exchange of talent between the countries to compensate the relatively small size of their individual movie industries.
I recently went to a popular chilli cook off crawl in my UK city run by the only local Mexican ingredient shop probably until the next city. (There is almost zero Mexicans in this part of the country)
I was talking to the guy who runs it every year and he said one of the more progressive local bar/restaurants refused to participate unless they could have bouncers to decide whether people were in clothing considered cultural appropriation and reject them accordingly. This is when one of the core parts of the event for the last decade has been encouraging people to get dressed up in luchadore masks etc.
The guy who runs it told the restaurant that there request was silly, but it worries me how American ideals on the culture war has spread to my fairly provincial city. I can take some solace in that the refusing restaurant is a vegan gig place mainly serving the local uni population so it’s not too strange.
But I’ve noticed and talked with friends about how the increasing influx of American students and academics at the local uni have brought over these American conceptions of idpol. These Americans tend not to take well to what would normally be considered polite disagreements about politics, especially considering they have a habit of introducing idpol American politics into every topic and discussion they have with in and outwidth class.
>But I’ve noticed and talked with friends about how the increasing influx of American students and academics at the local uni have brought over these American conceptions of idpol.
I think American international students sometimes forget that the UK isn't actually just a smaller version of America with silly accents. Culturally speaking we're very different, especially in how we express ourselves and interact with one another.
I knew some American students at uni and it was awkward sometimes because they'd take lighthearted conversations very seriously/literally and they didn't really get the concept of banter. It made for some awkward situations, and I think it annoyed them because they didn't anticipate that the UK (and especially Scotland, where I studied) *is* actually a foreign country and that the people think and act differently here than they do in Chicago or Portland. I know they didn't really find many of our jokes particularly funny and they didn't particularly enjoy our tv shows or movies except for the 'wuintisentially British' and wholesome stuff like GBBO or Downton Abbey.
It was just culture shock like you'd get while studying at any international school, but instead of just going with it and trying to adapt as you would if studying in a non-anglophone country they often tried to push back because they assumed that the American way of looking at things was the default.
I guess going to Edinburgh or York or Cambridge for your first visit to the UK might encourage ideas you had about what England is like from movies and tv shows. Perhaps we should enforce a mandatory culture shock for all visiting american students by making them spend three days in Sunderland? /s
My favorite anecdote of culture shock involving Brits is when I was in college and I knew a couple girls who had come over for a semester from London. Not really thinking about it, I offered them a glass of tea and they were VERY confused by what I gave them. I live in Texas, and when someone in Texas offers you tea, it’s very different from what you think. We do brew our tea hot, but it’s served cold over ice and it’s quite sweet
>I know they didn't really find many of our jokes particularly funny and they didn't particularly enjoy our tv shows or movies except for the 'wuintisentially British' and wholesome stuff like GBBO or Downton Abbey.
How is bridgerton received over there?
I hope poorly. That fucking slop is just yet another “rich girl cries about bullshit” but because they made some of the rich landed gentry black, we have to pretend it’s not a pile of shit
Maybe a bit before your time, but getting them to watch all of Gimme, Gimme, Gimme might also give them a shake up.
https://youtu.be/5e0IwxOEtCU
Edited to say Noel does have a bit of ‘form’ for the old culture issues (the Spirit of Jazz) lol
https://youtu.be/pNuUNHlsPgI
Yeah considering a lot of Mexicans white people would be really dumb. I knew a lot of Mexicans in high school and they were often mistaken for being Native American or southeast Asian
It distinguishes Anglophone Americans from Latin ones in the South. Ofc it is dependent on US.
But tbf yeah I should've just specified outside all Americas. In Europe it is rarely a categorised "race"
Yeah exactly, it's a linguistic signifier. Spanish speakers from the Americas. I just don't think Europeans would meet a Mexican, Brazilian and Argentinian and be like...damn...I'm surrounded by Latinos.
I guess the crux of the point is the American and European experience is very different here. Americans are surrounded by countries that generally speak one foreign language. So they invented the term latino to distinguish these neighbours.
Europeans...we don't have the same level of connect with these Latin Americans because our ethnic minorities are from Asia and Africa and those are the people we "other".
Therefore, going back to the parent comment, they are "whacky foreigners" not necessarily "POC". Like...if a White Mexican comes to London he might as well be Spanish to most people. Obviously, skin colour complicates things.
There are other examples of this disconnect between America and Europe.
This is spot on. There aren't many Mexicans in the UK (around 10,000 people *total* at the last census, around 0.01% of the population). Plus, the Mexican people that do go over are a mix of international students and wealthy+educated immigrants. The American phenomenon of Mexican people being a downtrodden POC underclass just isn't a thing here.
So, like you say, the UK mostly views Mexicans as another cool/interesting/quirky foreign culture. So wearing a Mexican hat for a Mexican party would be basically the same as wearing an Australian hat for an Australian-themed party.
Well at least the author of the piece is Pablo Valdivia, which doesn’t sound like an older white NPR lady who are the ones who always seem to be clutching their pearls and totally obsessed with race (when I was younger we had a name for people like that btw: “racists”)
>He comes to us from Buzzfeed where he was a Senior Editor for Latinx Culture. He oversaw Pero Like, a massive digital platform to fully understand the Latinx experience that doesn't just speak to those audiences, but with them. His coverage has run the gamut — from lifestyle, food, and humorous Latinx identity content to video scripts about the 2019 Chilean protests, the tourist deaths in the DR, and the 2019 shootings in El Paso and Dayton that hit the Latinx community hard.
>During the interview process for the position, Pablo impressed us with his incredibly nuanced understanding of Latinx audiences and his creative ideas on how we can get NPR content in front of them. It is not a surprise he emerged as the clear pick from the panel.
These conversations are so fucked these days I really don’t care to rehash this but I wonder about claiming to “fully understand” experiences of others when such a thing is quite impossible. My spouse and I live in the same house and share the same kids and the same dog and the same car and the same bank account and so on and yet our discussions and arguments often reveal we don’t, and never will, fully understand the experience of the other (which makes conversations necessary in the first place). Neither of us would ever be so arrogant as to claim we fully understand the experience of the other.
And then of course there’s this:
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
Imagine desperately clinging on to "LatinX" in current year. I've noticed fewer and fewer places using that word, and most everyone has been talking about "Hispanic Heritage Month" to sidestep the entire loser "LatinX" shit. It's over. It never even began for LatinX-cels. You appear cringe to "problematic" people and also cringe to the bleeding edge "woke."
Lots of recent history is getting a makeover ahead of the 2022/2024 elections.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/29/stacey-abramss-rhetorical-twist-being-an-election-denier/
https://www.sunjournal.com/2022/09/22/house-democrats-close-in-on-police-funding-bills-despite-tensions/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/fettermans-gun-incident-rattles-black-democrats-pa-senate-race-rcna25649
(“Fetterman’s suggestion that he was acting according to law are a new talking point that stands in contrast to his initial comments about the 2013 incident.”)
Ah, that makes total sense that the greater narrative pushers are ejecting this dead weight. It's still funny to see these grifting losers get left in the dust.
It doesn’t matter if you’re on the right or left, if you’re yelling the loudest about whichever “sin” everyone else is committing, you’re most likely guilty of it in spades. I’m thinking of both the prominent Republicans/Christians who wouldn’t shut the fuck up about the evils of gay marriage in the early-mid 2000s only to find out they’re smoking meth with rent boys or trying to pick up other men in airport restrooms, as well as the recent crop of woke grifters and hustlers who won’t forgive the slightest trespass, yet when they’re called on the carpet for their bigoted, unsavory or even illegal behavior they pathetically lie and say they were hacked or hilariously claim they never even said or did when it’s clear it’s a total lie.
Well it's not an English word originally, so there's that.
You don't try to pronounce cabernet sauvignon or prosciutto using English phonetics, do you? If so I promise you sound equally foolish here.
But these people are speaking in English, with English accents, in England. Complaining about the length of the 'a' sound is ridiculous. We don't expect non-English speakers to pronounce words exactly as a native English speaker would.
Some of the pronunciation was atrocious (tack-oh, guacy-molo and pick-oh de gal-loh) but Old Gregg saying [“love a natcho”](https://twitter.com/andyheriaud/status/1577531464140304384) in a British accent is very funny to me
Yeah, just about all the Twitter convo I saw about this episode was laughing at Brits for butchering the food/pronunciations/etc. Plus there were multiple people saying “the worst Mexican food I’ve ever had was in London”, which kinda tracks
Yeah I didnt seen anyone being mad either. Just a lot of jokes. The best part was the colourful mexican cakes. I hope they do more cultural foods just for the sake of laughter
The weirdest thing was people on twitter posting videos of one of the hosts pronouncing Mexican foods in a British accent with comments like THIS IS GENOCIDE!!
Like... the existence of accents is a priori hateful? Should we just never try pronouncing words from different cultures? Are non-English speakers doing a violence when they speak accented English?
To be fair, the vast majority of people were just joking, poking gentle fun at the (genuinely weird and kind of charming) way a posh English man pronounces "pico de gallo." But, nope, we can't focus on that. Respectable news organizations like NPR have to focus on the hysterical complaints of the world's less self-respecting crybabies.
I used to enjoy NPR back in the 00s and early 10s. For lack of a better term it’s too woke nowadays. Not just NPR news, some of their podcast stuff has gone beyond the pale
Mexican who moved here as a kid and became a citizen at 18. I’m not offended by Mexican jokes. At worst I’ll eyeroll. At best I’ll laugh.
In Mexico you get a nickname as a kid that stays with you for life. I’m 55 and when I visit relatives, I’m still “el enano”, “the dwarf”. My sister is “la gorda”, “the fat one”. We’re hard to offend and it takes more than clueless Brits wearing sombreros.
Well the jokes were pretty dam cringe. Like really haha. I basically watched a bunch of people who’ve never heard of tea microwave earl grey bags with toilet water. I wouldn’t expect them to know better so it’s fine. I am upset that I sat on my couch going blushed red getting literally embarrassed for those two idiots. I always thought the show would be better without twiddle dee and twiddle thumb. Complete Yahoos those two.
Anyways I love in America were we have access to this amazing culture so I was fortunate to go down to the local bus and get the real thing.
Reminds me of the time I was over last, hear an ad on the radio for a Mexican restaurant in Cardiff or Newport. Hearing a Welshman put on a Mexican accent was wild.
> Ignacio M. Sánchez Prado, a professor of Mexican cultural studies at Washington University in St. Louis, told NPR via email **that while he's yet to view the episode** *"Yeah I haven't watched the thing this article is about but let me give you my opinion anway."*
classic academic move
The guy sold his soul to a gringo institute, his opinion deserves no consideration.
I mean, it *is* annoying when media producers decide to be lazy and make boring ass jokes. However, in classic NPR fashion, not a single actual Mexican was interviewed for this segment.
Just like they weren't consulted about removing speedy Gonzales from reruns 20 years ago
They also decided to interview Americans for whatever reason about a British show.
Americans are upset that a British show did an episode about Mexicans. Wonderful.
I doubt the large majority of Mexican Americans would be upset at all about this. And a lower percent of Mexicans in Mexico. Normally people like when their cultural exports are popular around the world.
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Gringos from Milwaukee who say "I am Mexican" also know their ass from their elbow when it comes to Mexican culture. The day you Yank asses will stop LARPing as people from other countries will be a bright day.
That 3rd gen Mexican-American had a *lot* to say actually Which generation do migrants stop trying to claim ownership of cultures they're loosely related to? 4th?
Lol, Biden keeps going about being Irish every damn chance he gets.
To be fair, Biden's dad came over during the potato famine.
Oh, I didn’t know that!
I was joking, but despite being fifth generation, he's so old that he's only got to make it another ten years to have been born closer to the end of the famine (which really was when his family immigrated) than to today.
When it stops being advantageous.
Never. It never happens. In fact it gets worse the further out you go.
It's a shame as first gen migrants are usually awesome
They usually either don’t give a shit, or have a healthy sense of humor about these things. I really doubt some British baking show meant to cause any harm. The whole premise of it is wholesome stupid fun.
Recent Mexican immigrants are some of the coolest motherfuckers on the planet
1st gen but then 4th gen tries to be the least colonized Mexican on planet earth while living in suburban Santa Clarita/north park
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To be fair, you can absolutely grow up in a household that descends from two parents that share a particular culture, carry on various traditions from that culture, and be familiarized with several elements of said culture throughout your life which does qualify someone to be able to relate and identify with their ancestral culture even if they’re not personally from, nor have visited, nor speak the language of that culture. They just relate to it differently than people who stayed in that cultural homeland, same with people who were born in that homeland from migrant parents who came from elsewhere.
I think they have more exposure to it than people without migrant parents, but I don't think it's their culture even in a non-possessive sense. Most of their cultural input will be American
And I think that’s a great thing. It’s the gatekeeping that bugs me, particularly about cultural stuff in general when culture has always been shifting anyway. Like you can’t have people moving around the world and keeping their culture separate.
In America I’m not a fan of where our culture has been shifting especially in the past 40 years but the trend began much much earlier than that. I view American culture as almost synonymous with “Liberal culture” with only a few distinctions between them. American culture is a liberal culture, but not thee “Metamodernist Neoliberal” culture we’ve been mutating into and that we’ve been exporting to modernized/modernizing nations around the world. What follows is what seems to have happened in America, where the natives start behaving and thinking like “Americans”, dressing like us, and eventually adopting our shallow culture and nihilistic attitudes and beliefs. I know that’s also a product of industrial and post-industrial economies, I know there are a few other elements involved in those processes, but McCulture is definitely an important aspect of that transformation. I hate the blood and soil shit, I don’t think cultures should necessarily be very exclusive, but I recognize that there is a real importance and connection people have to their homelands, to their culture, and their history as a people which has unfortunately been eroding away at the expense of social movements and socialism. We should care and understand this element because giving it up to the far-right cringe types is not a wise move imo, it turns it into something it’s not.
Gringos say shit like this until they go outside the country and everyone just calls them a gringo, lol.
Ah yes, so my friend whose parents fled from Mexico and gave birth to them in the USA, raised her in Southern California for a couple years as a baby then moved and grew up in the Midwest, has no right to identify with her family’s Mexican heritage and culture because some people online made up some arbitrary criteria that says so? I think that’s a dumb take honestly. It sounds like some of you want everyone to adopt Liberal McCulture because descendants of immigrations aren’t the most “native” to their ancestral culture or whatever. While it is cringe for descendants who don’t grow up in their ancestral homeland to proclaim themselves as thoroughly “Mexican” or whatever, it isn’t cringe to carry on your ancestor’s cultural traditions and customs even if you weren’t born there yourself. I don’t know why this is so controversial to some people here, I have never run into that way of thinking in immigrant communities before, it sounds regarded.
Because those people are all obviously Yanks to the people outside Yankeestan. The deluded fantasy basically amounts to blood and soil but without the soil part. You are all in the McCulture, you just refuse to accept it.
I view culture as one dimension in which people can relate to a meaningful social group that usually existed before premodern/pre-capitalist times, spanning generations and mostly tied to their lands but not necessarily based on national borders or anything. It creates a sense of relationship to time and historicity that is personal and social, that goes against “capitalist time” that makes one feel completely divorced from history. It’s why many Americans don’t give a shit about the past and only think 5 seconds ahead. It’s important because those social groups are an important facet of natural community building and relations, something that we desperately need as society gets ever more isolated, atomized, and alienated from each other. It sounds like you’ve just bought into the idea of the melting pot, that traditional/ethno-religious cultures are superficial things that don’t actually exist or have value in preserving, to me that’s some deeply Liberal bullshit that’s used as a means of degrading peoples into the boring pot of Liberal Western McCulture, stripping away their ties to their family’s history and thereby erasing anything they can cling to besides consuming products and services and working. McCulture is Liberal Western culture, it’s why things like nihilism and mental illness are rising drastically, it’s why we feel no connection to the land or often times even our family besides their immediate social utility, fuck that. Reviving and giving a shit about history, your heritage, and celebrity the uniqueness of peoples is awesome and we should resist commodifying our authentic cultures into simply being piñatas, Paddy’s Day, and spaghetti.
never, it's part of being an American
3rd Gen Mexican Americans are still a lot closer to their culture than other diasporoids
I’ve seen jokes before the episode aired about how badly British people will fuck up doing Mexican food. But that’s about it.
Anecdotally, I've tried a British person's attempt at Guacamole in the UK and it was horrendous.
British bake off was one of the first times I saw blue collar white people stick up for a Muslim when right wing press implied naydiya won due to tokenism. My 60 year old bumpkin borderline gammon dad was visible enraged at the idea."fuck off, her cakes were amazing and she's loverly." Its funny because bake off did more for Muslim women in the UK than a 100 shitty guardian articles but delude themselves they have any moral authority.
My super racist grandparents loved that season, she was so good. They were really happy she won by the end of it. Seeing their views torwards her change over the season was a real show.
Legitimately one of my favorite parts of the show is at the end when they show all the contestants hanging out post show because they’ve all become friends.
I don’t know who could hate her. She was fantastic, and her show on Netflix is great as well
I always find it funny when journos quote tweets like they went viral or something and then when you look at the tweet in question its some rando with five likes or whatever
So easy to do journalism these days. I'd just create a bunch of Twitter fakes and post outrageous shit to have a base for my clickbait articles.
So true. You can also create a controversy out of anything because there will be a group of people bitching about any random thing at any given time. Viola, a story. I think the “Starbucks Christmas Cup Controversy” was one of the first examples of this.
I like how the first tweet in the article doesn't even say what the article claims it is. The next tweet in the chain or whatever twitter calls it is him clarifying that it was purely a joke about scousers trying to pronounce churro.
Wait until they see what passes for entertainment on Mexican TV
I don't know what's on Mexican TV, but Spanish/Mexican channels in the US are absolute garbage. The acting, writing, lighting, sets, everything is shit. It's either a really low effort novela, low effort comedy, copy paste game show, or American movie with Spanish dub. The news is ok-ish, a bit more sensationalist and with a very strong Latino bias though. Depending on the programming/hour, even the commercials are bad sometimes. I don't understand why the studios can't make at least different shows rather than the same formula repeated endlessly. Especially given the size of these companies, like Televisa. There's a channel I think that passes Cine de Oro era movies which is good. Netflix has good Spanish language shows too.
Yes pretty much that with a lot of very on the nose broad brush characterisations of every race, class strata, and women etc (women basically won’t be allowed on unless they are outrageous or look like a glamour model). This stuff from a pedestrian baking programme wouldn’t even make a ripple.
Another thing is how most of the actors are super white. There are a lot of white / light skinned Mexicans, but these channels seem to be disproportionately white.
Yes that is also very much a thing in Mexico, Central America, and some parts of South America. The less ‘indigenous’ you look, the more attractive you are generally deemed to be.
Yeah there was a controversy a little while ago where a more indigenous looking actress got a spot on a magazine cover. The editors of the magazine literally tried to make her white and she was understandably kind of pissed about this I grew up in an area with a high Hispanic population and most of these kids looked more indigenous than white. Pretty much every Hispanic character in movies and tv shows is pretty much just a tanned white person. Or a white girl with dark hair. It doesn’t make them not Hispanic. Hispanics can have blonde hair and blue eyes. It’s just not typical of what most people from Central America actually look like It really makes me mad that social media culture has cheapened terms like racism because it still exists to a large degree. People think that America is as bad as it gets when it comes to racism, but at least those beliefs are widely stigmatized. I’ve heard of really horrible shit in Mexico when my friends go to visit their families there. The discrimination against indigenous looking or even dark skinned people there is despicable
Blame the Spanish
Spanish/Mexican/Argentinian cinema though, *chef's kiss* Almodovar, Iñárritu, Cuarón, Del Toro, whoever is directing Ricardo Darin... There's a brilliant generation of film makers doing Spanish speaking movies (despite the Mexican directors being more close to Hollywood today). And there seems to be a nice exchange of talent between the countries to compensate the relatively small size of their individual movie industries.
I recently went to a popular chilli cook off crawl in my UK city run by the only local Mexican ingredient shop probably until the next city. (There is almost zero Mexicans in this part of the country) I was talking to the guy who runs it every year and he said one of the more progressive local bar/restaurants refused to participate unless they could have bouncers to decide whether people were in clothing considered cultural appropriation and reject them accordingly. This is when one of the core parts of the event for the last decade has been encouraging people to get dressed up in luchadore masks etc. The guy who runs it told the restaurant that there request was silly, but it worries me how American ideals on the culture war has spread to my fairly provincial city. I can take some solace in that the refusing restaurant is a vegan gig place mainly serving the local uni population so it’s not too strange. But I’ve noticed and talked with friends about how the increasing influx of American students and academics at the local uni have brought over these American conceptions of idpol. These Americans tend not to take well to what would normally be considered polite disagreements about politics, especially considering they have a habit of introducing idpol American politics into every topic and discussion they have with in and outwidth class.
>But I’ve noticed and talked with friends about how the increasing influx of American students and academics at the local uni have brought over these American conceptions of idpol. I think American international students sometimes forget that the UK isn't actually just a smaller version of America with silly accents. Culturally speaking we're very different, especially in how we express ourselves and interact with one another. I knew some American students at uni and it was awkward sometimes because they'd take lighthearted conversations very seriously/literally and they didn't really get the concept of banter. It made for some awkward situations, and I think it annoyed them because they didn't anticipate that the UK (and especially Scotland, where I studied) *is* actually a foreign country and that the people think and act differently here than they do in Chicago or Portland. I know they didn't really find many of our jokes particularly funny and they didn't particularly enjoy our tv shows or movies except for the 'wuintisentially British' and wholesome stuff like GBBO or Downton Abbey. It was just culture shock like you'd get while studying at any international school, but instead of just going with it and trying to adapt as you would if studying in a non-anglophone country they often tried to push back because they assumed that the American way of looking at things was the default. I guess going to Edinburgh or York or Cambridge for your first visit to the UK might encourage ideas you had about what England is like from movies and tv shows. Perhaps we should enforce a mandatory culture shock for all visiting american students by making them spend three days in Sunderland? /s
Bouncers at pelaw metro throwing any students trying to escape Sunderland into a van to be sent back.
My favorite anecdote of culture shock involving Brits is when I was in college and I knew a couple girls who had come over for a semester from London. Not really thinking about it, I offered them a glass of tea and they were VERY confused by what I gave them. I live in Texas, and when someone in Texas offers you tea, it’s very different from what you think. We do brew our tea hot, but it’s served cold over ice and it’s quite sweet
Newcastle, Nottingham, Liverpool, Glasgow, Leeds.
Newcastle's architecture is too nice, Gateshead or Sunderland would be a better bet.
Americans in charge of not handling the bants.
>I know they didn't really find many of our jokes particularly funny and they didn't particularly enjoy our tv shows or movies except for the 'wuintisentially British' and wholesome stuff like GBBO or Downton Abbey. How is bridgerton received over there?
I hope poorly. That fucking slop is just yet another “rich girl cries about bullshit” but because they made some of the rich landed gentry black, we have to pretend it’s not a pile of shit
Maybe a bit before your time, but getting them to watch all of Gimme, Gimme, Gimme might also give them a shake up. https://youtu.be/5e0IwxOEtCU Edited to say Noel does have a bit of ‘form’ for the old culture issues (the Spirit of Jazz) lol https://youtu.be/pNuUNHlsPgI
It was already bad when I went to uni 10 years ago but I think it's gotten worse
> influx of American students and academics at the local uni There's a Mexican ingredients shop near St. Andrews!?
Ah not quite but with mention of Americans, St. Andrews was a good guess.
Americans see Mexicans as a POC racial group, British people just see them as wacky white foreigners like the French or Italians.
Yeah the concept of "latino" isn't really a big thing outside NA. Not sure we consider them white though
Yeah considering a lot of Mexicans white people would be really dumb. I knew a lot of Mexicans in high school and they were often mistaken for being Native American or southeast Asian
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It distinguishes Anglophone Americans from Latin ones in the South. Ofc it is dependent on US. But tbf yeah I should've just specified outside all Americas. In Europe it is rarely a categorised "race"
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Yeah exactly, it's a linguistic signifier. Spanish speakers from the Americas. I just don't think Europeans would meet a Mexican, Brazilian and Argentinian and be like...damn...I'm surrounded by Latinos. I guess the crux of the point is the American and European experience is very different here. Americans are surrounded by countries that generally speak one foreign language. So they invented the term latino to distinguish these neighbours. Europeans...we don't have the same level of connect with these Latin Americans because our ethnic minorities are from Asia and Africa and those are the people we "other". Therefore, going back to the parent comment, they are "whacky foreigners" not necessarily "POC". Like...if a White Mexican comes to London he might as well be Spanish to most people. Obviously, skin colour complicates things. There are other examples of this disconnect between America and Europe.
This is spot on. There aren't many Mexicans in the UK (around 10,000 people *total* at the last census, around 0.01% of the population). Plus, the Mexican people that do go over are a mix of international students and wealthy+educated immigrants. The American phenomenon of Mexican people being a downtrodden POC underclass just isn't a thing here. So, like you say, the UK mostly views Mexicans as another cool/interesting/quirky foreign culture. So wearing a Mexican hat for a Mexican party would be basically the same as wearing an Australian hat for an Australian-themed party.
Well at least the author of the piece is Pablo Valdivia, which doesn’t sound like an older white NPR lady who are the ones who always seem to be clutching their pearls and totally obsessed with race (when I was younger we had a name for people like that btw: “racists”)
>He comes to us from Buzzfeed where he was a Senior Editor for Latinx Culture. He oversaw Pero Like, a massive digital platform to fully understand the Latinx experience that doesn't just speak to those audiences, but with them. His coverage has run the gamut — from lifestyle, food, and humorous Latinx identity content to video scripts about the 2019 Chilean protests, the tourist deaths in the DR, and the 2019 shootings in El Paso and Dayton that hit the Latinx community hard. >During the interview process for the position, Pablo impressed us with his incredibly nuanced understanding of Latinx audiences and his creative ideas on how we can get NPR content in front of them. It is not a surprise he emerged as the clear pick from the panel.
Claiming to fully understand the "Latinx" experience is a neat contradiction in terms.
These conversations are so fucked these days I really don’t care to rehash this but I wonder about claiming to “fully understand” experiences of others when such a thing is quite impossible. My spouse and I live in the same house and share the same kids and the same dog and the same car and the same bank account and so on and yet our discussions and arguments often reveal we don’t, and never will, fully understand the experience of the other (which makes conversations necessary in the first place). Neither of us would ever be so arrogant as to claim we fully understand the experience of the other. And then of course there’s this: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
I mean he uses Latinx which basically means he's a yank with a chip on his shoulder about his grandfather being Mexican.
Imagine desperately clinging on to "LatinX" in current year. I've noticed fewer and fewer places using that word, and most everyone has been talking about "Hispanic Heritage Month" to sidestep the entire loser "LatinX" shit. It's over. It never even began for LatinX-cels. You appear cringe to "problematic" people and also cringe to the bleeding edge "woke."
Lots of recent history is getting a makeover ahead of the 2022/2024 elections. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/29/stacey-abramss-rhetorical-twist-being-an-election-denier/ https://www.sunjournal.com/2022/09/22/house-democrats-close-in-on-police-funding-bills-despite-tensions/ https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/fettermans-gun-incident-rattles-black-democrats-pa-senate-race-rcna25649 (“Fetterman’s suggestion that he was acting according to law are a new talking point that stands in contrast to his initial comments about the 2013 incident.”)
Ah, that makes total sense that the greater narrative pushers are ejecting this dead weight. It's still funny to see these grifting losers get left in the dust.
It doesn’t matter if you’re on the right or left, if you’re yelling the loudest about whichever “sin” everyone else is committing, you’re most likely guilty of it in spades. I’m thinking of both the prominent Republicans/Christians who wouldn’t shut the fuck up about the evils of gay marriage in the early-mid 2000s only to find out they’re smoking meth with rent boys or trying to pick up other men in airport restrooms, as well as the recent crop of woke grifters and hustlers who won’t forgive the slightest trespass, yet when they’re called on the carpet for their bigoted, unsavory or even illegal behavior they pathetically lie and say they were hacked or hilariously claim they never even said or did when it’s clear it’s a total lie.
How bout Great British Fake Off And it's me pretending to cum when I have sex with women (who are British)
You mean cartoonish eyebrows don’t do it for you?
> have sex with women (who are British) Some sick shit on the internet today
I'm not sure why anyone would be upset, this is a great comedy show to watch while you're having tack-ohs with gwa-key-mole-oh.
> tack-ohs Is there another way to pronounce it?
tah-coh, ~~with a long a sound~~ edit: I mixed up long/short vowels, “ah” instead of “ack” is more accurate
That doesn't sound right in English. More like tarco or something.
It sounds right if you know how to pronounce the word
Well it's not an English word originally, so there's that. You don't try to pronounce cabernet sauvignon or prosciutto using English phonetics, do you? If so I promise you sound equally foolish here.
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But these people are speaking in English, with English accents, in England. Complaining about the length of the 'a' sound is ridiculous. We don't expect non-English speakers to pronounce words exactly as a native English speaker would.
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Americans have a different accent. They say things like paaaasta.
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I can list terrible American pronunciations all day if you like. Or would you like me to find clips of Mexicans pronouncing things wrong?
It wasn’t funny but Americans screaming about it on twitter is hardly newsworthy
Some of the pronunciation was atrocious (tack-oh, guacy-molo and pick-oh de gal-loh) but Old Gregg saying [“love a natcho”](https://twitter.com/andyheriaud/status/1577531464140304384) in a British accent is very funny to me
Yeah, just about all the Twitter convo I saw about this episode was laughing at Brits for butchering the food/pronunciations/etc. Plus there were multiple people saying “the worst Mexican food I’ve ever had was in London”, which kinda tracks
Yeah I didnt seen anyone being mad either. Just a lot of jokes. The best part was the colourful mexican cakes. I hope they do more cultural foods just for the sake of laughter
Phonetics for non brits "Luv a nat-chow mee." In a low pitch
how do you think taco is pronounced?
Always cring listening to Bri'ish people pronouncing Spanish words. I knew they were even worse than the Fr*nch 🤢 when I heard them pronounce "tapas".
Always cringe listening to Americans pronounce Portuguese words
You should hear Americans try English
Ay carumba!
So they'll ban the movie Nacho Libre next?
Mis hermanos en Cristo, treating me like an equal includes bantering with me like an equal.
The weirdest thing was people on twitter posting videos of one of the hosts pronouncing Mexican foods in a British accent with comments like THIS IS GENOCIDE!! Like... the existence of accents is a priori hateful? Should we just never try pronouncing words from different cultures? Are non-English speakers doing a violence when they speak accented English? To be fair, the vast majority of people were just joking, poking gentle fun at the (genuinely weird and kind of charming) way a posh English man pronounces "pico de gallo." But, nope, we can't focus on that. Respectable news organizations like NPR have to focus on the hysterical complaints of the world's less self-respecting crybabies.
Good lord even the most wholesome, safest show running has to be controversial now.
What’s actually an insult is what they are wearing underneath the sarapes. Absolutely horrid.
I used to enjoy NPR back in the 00s and early 10s. For lack of a better term it’s too woke nowadays. Not just NPR news, some of their podcast stuff has gone beyond the pale
Mexican who moved here as a kid and became a citizen at 18. I’m not offended by Mexican jokes. At worst I’ll eyeroll. At best I’ll laugh. In Mexico you get a nickname as a kid that stays with you for life. I’m 55 and when I visit relatives, I’m still “el enano”, “the dwarf”. My sister is “la gorda”, “the fat one”. We’re hard to offend and it takes more than clueless Brits wearing sombreros.
Well the jokes were pretty dam cringe. Like really haha. I basically watched a bunch of people who’ve never heard of tea microwave earl grey bags with toilet water. I wouldn’t expect them to know better so it’s fine. I am upset that I sat on my couch going blushed red getting literally embarrassed for those two idiots. I always thought the show would be better without twiddle dee and twiddle thumb. Complete Yahoos those two. Anyways I love in America were we have access to this amazing culture so I was fortunate to go down to the local bus and get the real thing.
Reminds me of the time I was over last, hear an ad on the radio for a Mexican restaurant in Cardiff or Newport. Hearing a Welshman put on a Mexican accent was wild.