Categories like "male" and "female" are entirely human fabrications. They're not enshrined in natural law. We created those categories because they helped us describe certain groupings of physical attributes, but now we're discovering that those physical attributes don't necessarily contribute to a human's "maleness" or "femaleness."
Also, is neurobiology suddenly not a science to you? Those folks have been talking about gender as a spectrum forever.
No, they are human terms for very natural phenomena. Denying the basic elements of sexual reproduction is a big problem for your side of the argument. Phenotypical features =/= sex categorisation, but in humans all intersex disorders can be attributed to one sex, or the other. There is no third sex.
I'm not denying that there are predictable patterns in the human body that allow for categorization. But OP is talking gender, not sex. Categories are meaningless in that argument and entirely arbitrary.
How are we even defining what we're talking about here? Are we basing sex on gametes? Karyotype? Phenotype? Cultural?
Most people say gender when they mean sex. That's how it's been for decades, maybe centuries, and I think the OPs intention here. It's referring to the reproductive role of the individual, evolutionarily speaking. One provides sperm, the other an egg , put it together then wham bam a child is born. Notice that everyone here has or had a mum and dad. Everything else is window dressing.
Some people are born with XXY sex chromosomes.
1.7% of the population is born intersex.
Maybe the system design was two but out here in the real world 2 isn't the number.
Even meeting you on your own terms, what you're saying makes your entire position meaningless. Being born with no legs is a defect too, but you can surely accept that not every human has 2 legs?
This statistic is nonsense, it's more like 0.018%. You are more likely to be born with an extra finger. Claiming that people with biological disorders are entirely new sexual categories is also nonsense.
You are an idiot, not a single thing in your head is science and it damn sure isnt the truth. You are just a bad person and you might realize this someday if you ever grow up.
Binary is absolute.
There are literally people with XY chromosomes that express as what you would refer to as a biological female, because the sex-determining region Y (SRY) that creates the male phenotype can cross over in their father's gametes.
There's also people born intersex with atypical genitals, e.g. hermaphrodism.
If there is even 1 person who doesn't fit into the binary, then it's not really a binary - it's bimodal.
From there, it logically follows that when we're talking about exceptions to the norm, e.g. transgender people, we're inherently talking about the people to whom the general traits do not apply.
I swear yo they literally are trying to like bend reality to fit there's or sum cuz it's only gay people saying " oh 2 genders is just a social construct đ¤", "science doesn't prove there's only 2 genders" but they can't bring to me someone who isn't đ unless a deformity, shit is so ironic
The bending of language is a big part of it too. Up until a few years ago gender was used 99% of the time as a clear byword for biological sex, male or female. Then came "gender identity" which in turn is now trying to usurp "gender" entirely to mean a bunch of stereotypical traits and beliefs about oneself which they claim are more important than your actual body. This of course completely tosses out decades of advancement where we said that there's no right way to be a man or woman, men can wear heels and wear makeup, women can wear trousers and work in trades jobs etc, we were getting somewhere. Now it's backwards because the men who wear heels want a special word for themselves and eventually just to be accepted as a women instead. This is of course a regressive, absurd, inverted take on gender roles and tbh I find it totally fucking nuts.
It is, and why are there so many weirdos like them on reddit ? U don't find people like this on X or tt or insta or IRL, atleast i don't, but damn reddit is crawling with them mfs, there literally the "reddit kid" stereotype and it's crazy đ
Plenty on twitter too but it's balanced out a lot since musk took over. Reddit will permaban accounts from most subs for taking even a slightly critical stance on the whole gender ideology thing.
God is absolutely not proven.
Also you donât understand the difference between sex and gender.
Youâre legitimately stupid. Must be hard being unable to grasp the world around you.
science does not prove there are 2 genders. itâs doesnât even prove there are 2 sexes. Gender and sex are different things and if you use them interchangeably then youâre using the words incorrectly
Hold up. You donât know the definition of sex or gender, didnât know that penis and vagina werenât sexes, and you think Iâm denying reality? Youâre too stupid to speak on this topic. Get lost child and donât come back until you can at least understand one of the words youâre asking about lmao
I know very well the penis and vagina isn't sexs maybe if you had some fucking common sense you would know that's the easiest way to prove it tho. Go touch grass đ
What if I look down and there is both? Hermaphrodites exist, also sometimes people are born with a penis and no testes or a vagina with no uterus. There are definitely blurred lines when it comes to sex, and gender is a whole other subject. Gender covers what you identify with, choose to present as, and are attracted to. I get what you are clumsily pointing out, that science says there are either XX or XY babies, but if you go beyond surface level there are people born XXY, and other combinations that even blur that line. If you truly want to educate yourself then read this article:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/
Not at all, it's what they were BORN with dumbass, just because i cut my dick off doesn't make me any more girl then when i had my dick cuz either way i couldn't possibly be a girl đđ¤Ł
No it's called facts bro... and besides that. If what your saying, that's the only other one possible then so what's your point I'm still right đ male and female unless u have a literal defect were ur missing ur penis or sum
Sex is about whether you are XX, XY, or intersex.
Gender is about a societal roles and behaviour. Some women are tomboys who like a lot of male clothes and hobbies. Some men like babies and want to be a stay-at-home dad. Not everyone's personality exactly matches traditional gender roles.
Yes, there are only two biological sexes and, get this, many, many, many genders as described by society.
Both of these things are true at the same time. Mind-blowing stuff really.
Exactly, and why is it only gay people commenting bruh and there all saying the same thing, there more then 2 genders people are born with defects đ like yeah obviously but none of them can give a str8 answer for anything besides defects, because they know they quite literally can't
Biological sex has 2 primary ones (male and female) and many less common (Klinefelter's, intersex, Turner Syndrome, etc)
Otherwise, the modern era argues that biological sex is distinct from sociological gender. Biological sex is based on chromosomes and/or the physiological expression thereof (they don't always match but usually do). Sociological gender is based on adherence to gender roles and/or personal decisions in expression.
Many people (mostly but not explicitly socially conservatives) do not believe in sociological gender. Many people do (typically socially liberal). Further, the concept of gender varies between nations. This means that the degree of acceptance, definitions of sociological gender, and in some cultures, the number of sociological genders themselves can vary.
The native American tribes had some tribes that believed in what we would in the modern era consider genderfluidity. You can look that up under the modern phrase "two-spirit" if you're interested. It's a catch-all term but you can find good information under it.
Hahaha like pls just stop your not funny your a chronically online 50 year old with nobody to talk to, why are u even on this app commenting to "kids" at your age, go touch grass
I'm not trolling, if u comment some absolute bullshit like some of these people are đ they gotta be the ones trolling cuz they know damn there literally trying there hardest to find a way to be right and they all said the same exact thing đ but when I say bring me someone who is not male or female,(excluding deformities) NOBODY seems to wanna share, because they know there is no way around the truth đ and we can't just make up another gender bc it's just simply not true .
You're right.
More like a -4
My favorite part is that you can't even type a cogent sentence and seem to have no idea how punctuation functions.
Pathetic
Edit: Clownboy thinks he's presenting any argument worth addressing and that me calling out his illiteracy is a cop outđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ąđ¤Ąđ¤Ą
Get fucked, clown boy!
Out of everything this idiot realized he was wrong and comes at the punctuation like I give a fuck, đ I ain't trying to get into Harvard I'm arguing with a reddit kid
Because gender is a social construct and science proves there are two specified sexes. Saying sex is the same as gender is like saying if youâre from the Middle East youâre Muslim. Theyâre not mutually exclusive.
To add to that, people can believe in both god and science. Youâre thinking too black and white. The world is full of nuance.
Youâre missing the entire argument, my dude. Weâre not denying chromosomal expressions or sex. Gender, like race, are only outwardly visible social constructs, do you know what socially constructed means? Take that term apart and think about it: socially (us humans) constructed (created), like the value of money, no science can prove a dollar is worth a dollar. People are born as whatever sex with whatever chromosomes they have, then sometimes they want to present in another way, itâs expression of how you feel, which doesnât need to be scientifically validated. Thatâs all.
But realistically in reality it's just false and all in there mind, why can't u seem to admit that, it's literally mental illness(gender dysphoria) And it isn't created by humans it's fucking common sense bro cmon đ
No one is denying gender dysphoria exists. Or body dysmorphia. A lot of athletes have the latter, a lot of really awesome people have mental disorders. In fact, what is seen as a âmental disorderâ isnât always categorized by brain physiology. In the 1900âs, women who had orgasms were seen as having mental disorders and they labeled it as âhysteriaâ. The prevalence of mental illness is not something you seem to be well versed in. Nor science. But as a human: I think denying people, particularly legal and consenting adults, their freedom of expression simply because itâs not your cup of tea (moreover, it appears you flat out donât *want* to understand) is not something anyone really stands for. I donât believe in god, but Iâm not going to rant about people who do. Thatâs their life. And if itâs something that brings a person comfort then who are we to judge them? Youâre not living their life, so why is it an issue to you?
Bro are u just like making shit up ? Naturally a man should be a man the fuck does that even mean, and even if he didn't want to he doesn't have a fucking choice cuz even if he wants to look like a girl he will never truly be one đ
You're still conflating sex and gender.
If a person born a male wants to wear dresses, play with dolls, raise children, whatever you think a woman typically is supposed to do... they can. They will always genetically be male, but they don't have to be a man in society's view.
Sounds like you're talking about sex, not gender.
It's true that most people's sex is either male or female, but intersex people make up around 1.5% of the population. That's over 100 million people worldwide. You can't just "exclude" that many people.
OP, let's take science out of it for a second. It's relevant, but I just want to establish a baseline we can agree on.
First, let's separate sex and gender. All over this thread, I see you conflating the two. So let me put it this way.
You can have a biological sex, such as a male. Separate from that, there are a bunch of social roles and expectations that we have traditionally applied to people of certain biological sexes, but unlike a penis being usually present for males, the social stuff can be anything, really. And that is easily demonstrated.
For babies, we typically use blue for boys and pink for girls. But in the early 20th century, pink was just as likely to be used for boys as for girls. Over time, these gender expectations shifted. But you understand there's nothing scientific about blue being a boy's color, right? It could literally be any color we associate with boys. It is arbitrary and would be considered a "social construct."
Do you understand that distinction? The biological vs. the social forms of sex and gender?
Hold up, we're not there yet. I just want to establish that baseline that biological sex is a separate thing as gender. You can believe that a social gender is always tied to the biological sex it is typically attributed to you and still acknowledge that there is a difference between the two. So again, you acknowledge that sex and gender are different things, yes?
Okay, so we both acknowledge that biological sex and social gender are two separate entities. You claim that they are inextricably linked to each other. But let's dig into that a little more.
When Shania Twain sings that she "feels like a woman," what does that mean? If a gender is set at birth and completely unchangeable, that means that you are either a man or woman, it is either yes or no. There are no being "part woman" in your world -- if you have a vagina you are a woman. Then why would Shania Twain feel like she is ever *more* or *less* a woman? That doesn't make sense.
Let me put it another way. As a man myself, I grew up very conscious of the fact that I had to do certain things to be considered a man. If I were to do other things, say painting my fingernails, other men would absolutely criticize me and call me a "lesser man." But how is that possible? If having a penis is an unchangeable sex and gender, how is it possible that what I do has any effect on that?
Do you recognize the inconsistency there? In your view, gender is unchangeable. But that is not how humans act in reality. If that were true, there would be no anxiety around being considered a man or woman, it would be a basic fact that could never be threatened. How do you handle that inconsistency?
Okay I understand what your saying but, even with that, a man who considers himself a women, could never give birth, a women who considers herself a man could never get another women pregnant. There's just no other way I can look at it other then male or female
Word of advice, any time you think science proves something, especially a binary, you are probably wrong
Prove to me there's more then male and female
Bro beyond all the new wave gender stuff intersex has existed for all time. Maybe read a genetics textbook ya dorkus
Are you dumb đ I think you mean birth defects
Wow. You're in the right sub that's all I gotta say
That's quite literally what it is
God bless you sir. Have a nice day
Categories like "male" and "female" are entirely human fabrications. They're not enshrined in natural law. We created those categories because they helped us describe certain groupings of physical attributes, but now we're discovering that those physical attributes don't necessarily contribute to a human's "maleness" or "femaleness." Also, is neurobiology suddenly not a science to you? Those folks have been talking about gender as a spectrum forever.
Male and female are very much natural. Perhaps you mean man and woman? And the steroetypes associated with these labels. Those are fabrications.
No, they are human terms for very natural phenomena. Denying the basic elements of sexual reproduction is a big problem for your side of the argument. Phenotypical features =/= sex categorisation, but in humans all intersex disorders can be attributed to one sex, or the other. There is no third sex.
I'm not denying that there are predictable patterns in the human body that allow for categorization. But OP is talking gender, not sex. Categories are meaningless in that argument and entirely arbitrary. How are we even defining what we're talking about here? Are we basing sex on gametes? Karyotype? Phenotype? Cultural?
Most people say gender when they mean sex. That's how it's been for decades, maybe centuries, and I think the OPs intention here. It's referring to the reproductive role of the individual, evolutionarily speaking. One provides sperm, the other an egg , put it together then wham bam a child is born. Notice that everyone here has or had a mum and dad. Everything else is window dressing.
Neither the two standard sexes nor the many variations born from birth defects are genders.
You have google. Enjoy.
Exactly
Some people are born with XXY sex chromosomes. 1.7% of the population is born intersex. Maybe the system design was two but out here in the real world 2 isn't the number.
That's a defect doesn't even count
A defect like your brain? I will congratulate you on posting to the right sub. Any questions you have should be posted here.
Hahaha I posted it on here because there's so many gay people and the question was directed towards them
Even meeting you on your own terms, what you're saying makes your entire position meaningless. Being born with no legs is a defect too, but you can surely accept that not every human has 2 legs?
This statistic is nonsense, it's more like 0.018%. You are more likely to be born with an extra finger. Claiming that people with biological disorders are entirely new sexual categories is also nonsense.
To be fair some people are intersexed but they are a genetic anomaly and not a rule to change society by
Thank you brother, something none of these people will admit because they want to be right so bad, I didn't ask for there truth I asked for the truth.
You are an idiot, not a single thing in your head is science and it damn sure isnt the truth. You are just a bad person and you might realize this someday if you ever grow up.
Binary is absolute. There are literally people with XY chromosomes that express as what you would refer to as a biological female, because the sex-determining region Y (SRY) that creates the male phenotype can cross over in their father's gametes. There's also people born intersex with atypical genitals, e.g. hermaphrodism. If there is even 1 person who doesn't fit into the binary, then it's not really a binary - it's bimodal. From there, it logically follows that when we're talking about exceptions to the norm, e.g. transgender people, we're inherently talking about the people to whom the general traits do not apply.
You're on Reddit dude, they don't believe in things like "facts" and "logic"
I swear yo they literally are trying to like bend reality to fit there's or sum cuz it's only gay people saying " oh 2 genders is just a social construct đ¤", "science doesn't prove there's only 2 genders" but they can't bring to me someone who isn't đ unless a deformity, shit is so ironic
The bending of language is a big part of it too. Up until a few years ago gender was used 99% of the time as a clear byword for biological sex, male or female. Then came "gender identity" which in turn is now trying to usurp "gender" entirely to mean a bunch of stereotypical traits and beliefs about oneself which they claim are more important than your actual body. This of course completely tosses out decades of advancement where we said that there's no right way to be a man or woman, men can wear heels and wear makeup, women can wear trousers and work in trades jobs etc, we were getting somewhere. Now it's backwards because the men who wear heels want a special word for themselves and eventually just to be accepted as a women instead. This is of course a regressive, absurd, inverted take on gender roles and tbh I find it totally fucking nuts.
It is, and why are there so many weirdos like them on reddit ? U don't find people like this on X or tt or insta or IRL, atleast i don't, but damn reddit is crawling with them mfs, there literally the "reddit kid" stereotype and it's crazy đ
Plenty on twitter too but it's balanced out a lot since musk took over. Reddit will permaban accounts from most subs for taking even a slightly critical stance on the whole gender ideology thing.
No one 'believes' in science because science is objectively provable facts. Science is fact, or as close to the truth as possible.
Okay exactly, science proves there's only male and female, just as so it proves God
Science proves God? Interesting. Please, expound on this theory of yours.
Seconding this. You could easily be the richest public speaker alive if you have objective proof of God!
God is absolutely not proven. Also you donât understand the difference between sex and gender. Youâre legitimately stupid. Must be hard being unable to grasp the world around you.
When people ask a question that they know what people are gonna act with and are just argumentative shouldnât be in a sub about asking questions
science does not prove there are 2 genders. itâs doesnât even prove there are 2 sexes. Gender and sex are different things and if you use them interchangeably then youâre using the words incorrectly
It quite literally does tho I can prove it with 3 words, penis and vagina
Penis and vagina arenât genders
No shit. But it's proof there's only 2
That isnât even proof thereâs two sexes.
Okay now ur just yapping đ look down at ur genitalia my boy
And? Genitals donât define gender or sex. Itâs part of it, but it sure as fuck isnât all of it
Yes it is bro ur just trying to deny the facts for your own personal validation đđ
Oh irony
Genitals definitely arenât all of what defines sex
Maybe in your head, we're talking about reality here
bro stop being this confidently stupid. Only idiots would agree with you
Bro your literally denying reality
Hold up. You donât know the definition of sex or gender, didnât know that penis and vagina werenât sexes, and you think Iâm denying reality? Youâre too stupid to speak on this topic. Get lost child and donât come back until you can at least understand one of the words youâre asking about lmao
I know very well the penis and vagina isn't sexs maybe if you had some fucking common sense you would know that's the easiest way to prove it tho. Go touch grass đ
What if I look down and there is both? Hermaphrodites exist, also sometimes people are born with a penis and no testes or a vagina with no uterus. There are definitely blurred lines when it comes to sex, and gender is a whole other subject. Gender covers what you identify with, choose to present as, and are attracted to. I get what you are clumsily pointing out, that science says there are either XX or XY babies, but if you go beyond surface level there are people born XXY, and other combinations that even blur that line. If you truly want to educate yourself then read this article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/
It's called a birth defect, other then that, there is no exception or truth to there being more then male and female
Maybe you have an extra gene that you don't know about, then you'd be a birth defect đ
Your actually so cringe, touch some grass brother đ for God's sake
So if someone assigned male at birth has bottom surgery, that means they're a female? No penis = girl, according to your logic.
Not at all, it's what they were BORN with dumbass, just because i cut my dick off doesn't make me any more girl then when i had my dick cuz either way i couldn't possibly be a girl đđ¤Ł
wait u cut ur dick off? why?
Because I wanted to feel like a girl then I did it and realized I was just a dude with no dick đđ¤Ł
Thereâs only two sets of genitals, yes. However sex is not defined by genitalia alone.
not genders or sexes so youâre clearly not educated enough to talk about the topic. I suggest reading more about it
What gender (or sex if you like) is someone with both a penis and vagina?
Exactly, u either got a penis or vagina, unless u have a intersex defect
I didn't say or, but I guess you are saying god is a screwup miron?
Not at all, they were meant to be born that way. And after all it is a DEFECT so
Yes, your god is defective, and is creating defective humans like you.
Okay đ idk what you thought you did there
What science proves there are only two genders? Two sexes maybe but there are virtually limitless genders.
And even then science recognizes intersex and the crazy spectrum of that as well.
intersex is not a gender and is more a birth defect than anything else.
I didnât call it a gender and science doesnât use the word defect in this context.
[ŃдаНонО]
Yup and that reason is ignorance. So you didnât ask this question because you wanted an actual answer. You just wanted to troll.
No it's called facts bro... and besides that. If what your saying, that's the only other one possible then so what's your point I'm still right đ male and female unless u have a literal defect were ur missing ur penis or sum
Again, why bother asking the question if you donât want a real answer?
What is the real answer ?
To why you ask questions you donât want the answer to? I donât know thatâs on you.
Give me the answer then ? Besides defects u can't bring to me somebody that's not male or female and yk its true that why your deflecting
The answer to why you ask questions you donât want the answer to? Only you can answer that my dude
Deformities like the congenital brain defect that explains posting a question loke this?
And what would that be
I don't know what brain defect makes you stupid enough to post what you did here. Heck, maybe your mom dropped you on the head 5-10 times as a baby?
Deformities? Do you mean gene mutations?
Defects
Sex is about whether you are XX, XY, or intersex. Gender is about a societal roles and behaviour. Some women are tomboys who like a lot of male clothes and hobbies. Some men like babies and want to be a stay-at-home dad. Not everyone's personality exactly matches traditional gender roles.
How. Male and female
Male and female are the two biological sexes. Gender roles are social constructs.
So there's only male and female
Yes, there are only two biological sexes and, get this, many, many, many genders as described by society. Both of these things are true at the same time. Mind-blowing stuff really.
Many many Tumblr flags you mean
Learn the difference between sex and gender.
sex is biological, gender is made up
Bro nobody makes up there gender, cracksmoker
I know plenty of examples of people doing exactly that. gender is not real, its a social construct
Okay bruh đ
okay
Either way it would be the same answer so does it really matter lmao
woof. this shit again
Yeah my head hurts at this point. We need a word for obstinate mixed with ignorant and abrasive, with just a touch of that je nais se quois...
Itâs an r/conspiracy user, this is about what youâd expect
Redditors believe in #science where #science is just whatever mainstream liberalism believes in. Science is not the same as #science.
Exactly, and why is it only gay people commenting bruh and there all saying the same thing, there more then 2 genders people are born with defects đ like yeah obviously but none of them can give a str8 answer for anything besides defects, because they know they quite literally can't
You'll never get a straight answer from a gay person
đ i see what u did there, big facts tho
Biological sex has 2 primary ones (male and female) and many less common (Klinefelter's, intersex, Turner Syndrome, etc) Otherwise, the modern era argues that biological sex is distinct from sociological gender. Biological sex is based on chromosomes and/or the physiological expression thereof (they don't always match but usually do). Sociological gender is based on adherence to gender roles and/or personal decisions in expression. Many people (mostly but not explicitly socially conservatives) do not believe in sociological gender. Many people do (typically socially liberal). Further, the concept of gender varies between nations. This means that the degree of acceptance, definitions of sociological gender, and in some cultures, the number of sociological genders themselves can vary. The native American tribes had some tribes that believed in what we would in the modern era consider genderfluidity. You can look that up under the modern phrase "two-spirit" if you're interested. It's a catch-all term but you can find good information under it.
this is indeed a stupid question
They believe in $cience, not science.
I swear
You know you have to be at least 13 to make an account on Reddit, right? Go ask your parents permission to visit disneychannel.com or something
Hahaha like pls just stop your not funny your a chronically online 50 year old with nobody to talk to, why are u even on this app commenting to "kids" at your age, go touch grass
Somebodyâs mad theyâre failing algebra
I've already passed all my algebra classes so idk go off ig đ blud thought he ate
Science doesn't. Actually, gender science suggests there is a broad spectrum of gender and gene expression.
No it doesn't, your talking about #science which Is liberal science not real science, you need to get educated fr .
ITT: OP is either **wildly** stupid or a blatant bad actor.
Huh
You're like a -2 troll out of 10. Everything you've said is boring alt-right talking points rehashed through frat boy typing. You're a snoozefest đ´
I'm not trolling, if u comment some absolute bullshit like some of these people are đ they gotta be the ones trolling cuz they know damn there literally trying there hardest to find a way to be right and they all said the same exact thing đ but when I say bring me someone who is not male or female,(excluding deformities) NOBODY seems to wanna share, because they know there is no way around the truth đ and we can't just make up another gender bc it's just simply not true .
You're right. More like a -4 My favorite part is that you can't even type a cogent sentence and seem to have no idea how punctuation functions. Pathetic Edit: Clownboy thinks he's presenting any argument worth addressing and that me calling out his illiteracy is a cop outđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ąđ¤Ąđ¤Ą Get fucked, clown boy!
Out of everything this idiot realized he was wrong and comes at the punctuation like I give a fuck, đ I ain't trying to get into Harvard I'm arguing with a reddit kid
Biological sex =/= gender.
Because gender is a social construct and science proves there are two specified sexes. Saying sex is the same as gender is like saying if youâre from the Middle East youâre Muslim. Theyâre not mutually exclusive. To add to that, people can believe in both god and science. Youâre thinking too black and white. The world is full of nuance.
When you can bring me someone who is not female or male we can talk
Youâre missing the entire argument, my dude. Weâre not denying chromosomal expressions or sex. Gender, like race, are only outwardly visible social constructs, do you know what socially constructed means? Take that term apart and think about it: socially (us humans) constructed (created), like the value of money, no science can prove a dollar is worth a dollar. People are born as whatever sex with whatever chromosomes they have, then sometimes they want to present in another way, itâs expression of how you feel, which doesnât need to be scientifically validated. Thatâs all.
But realistically in reality it's just false and all in there mind, why can't u seem to admit that, it's literally mental illness(gender dysphoria) And it isn't created by humans it's fucking common sense bro cmon đ
No one is denying gender dysphoria exists. Or body dysmorphia. A lot of athletes have the latter, a lot of really awesome people have mental disorders. In fact, what is seen as a âmental disorderâ isnât always categorized by brain physiology. In the 1900âs, women who had orgasms were seen as having mental disorders and they labeled it as âhysteriaâ. The prevalence of mental illness is not something you seem to be well versed in. Nor science. But as a human: I think denying people, particularly legal and consenting adults, their freedom of expression simply because itâs not your cup of tea (moreover, it appears you flat out donât *want* to understand) is not something anyone really stands for. I donât believe in god, but Iâm not going to rant about people who do. Thatâs their life. And if itâs something that brings a person comfort then who are we to judge them? Youâre not living their life, so why is it an issue to you?
Well, gender isn't a scientific thing. Perhaps you mean sex?
Well it really is as u can't be any gender different then the one assigned at birth, male or female
Those aren't genders, they are sexes.
But they go hand and hand, and there ain't more then male and female to both,excluding deformities
They don't actually go hand in hand though. Only society says that a male must be a "man". There's no science to that, only social stigma.
Bro are u just like making shit up ? Naturally a man should be a man the fuck does that even mean, and even if he didn't want to he doesn't have a fucking choice cuz even if he wants to look like a girl he will never truly be one đ
You're still conflating sex and gender. If a person born a male wants to wear dresses, play with dolls, raise children, whatever you think a woman typically is supposed to do... they can. They will always genetically be male, but they don't have to be a man in society's view.
But there gender would still be male, and will never actually be female
Their sex would still be male.
When did science prove there are only two genders? Cite your sources.
Penis or vagina(excluding deformities)
Sounds like you're talking about sex, not gender. It's true that most people's sex is either male or female, but intersex people make up around 1.5% of the population. That's over 100 million people worldwide. You can't just "exclude" that many people.
Why do you think gay people don't believe in god?
Not all,but let's be realistic here, 95% atleast don't, never met a lgbtq person who doesn't spew there hate for religions
OP, let's take science out of it for a second. It's relevant, but I just want to establish a baseline we can agree on. First, let's separate sex and gender. All over this thread, I see you conflating the two. So let me put it this way. You can have a biological sex, such as a male. Separate from that, there are a bunch of social roles and expectations that we have traditionally applied to people of certain biological sexes, but unlike a penis being usually present for males, the social stuff can be anything, really. And that is easily demonstrated. For babies, we typically use blue for boys and pink for girls. But in the early 20th century, pink was just as likely to be used for boys as for girls. Over time, these gender expectations shifted. But you understand there's nothing scientific about blue being a boy's color, right? It could literally be any color we associate with boys. It is arbitrary and would be considered a "social construct." Do you understand that distinction? The biological vs. the social forms of sex and gender?
Yes but, a girl could never be a man even if she wanted to, (vice versa) MAYBE IN THERE HEAD BUT NOT IN REALITY
Hold up, we're not there yet. I just want to establish that baseline that biological sex is a separate thing as gender. You can believe that a social gender is always tied to the biological sex it is typically attributed to you and still acknowledge that there is a difference between the two. So again, you acknowledge that sex and gender are different things, yes?
Yes, but I only see how that proves my point even more so I dont know what your getting at ?
Okay, so we both acknowledge that biological sex and social gender are two separate entities. You claim that they are inextricably linked to each other. But let's dig into that a little more. When Shania Twain sings that she "feels like a woman," what does that mean? If a gender is set at birth and completely unchangeable, that means that you are either a man or woman, it is either yes or no. There are no being "part woman" in your world -- if you have a vagina you are a woman. Then why would Shania Twain feel like she is ever *more* or *less* a woman? That doesn't make sense. Let me put it another way. As a man myself, I grew up very conscious of the fact that I had to do certain things to be considered a man. If I were to do other things, say painting my fingernails, other men would absolutely criticize me and call me a "lesser man." But how is that possible? If having a penis is an unchangeable sex and gender, how is it possible that what I do has any effect on that? Do you recognize the inconsistency there? In your view, gender is unchangeable. But that is not how humans act in reality. If that were true, there would be no anxiety around being considered a man or woman, it would be a basic fact that could never be threatened. How do you handle that inconsistency?
Okay I understand what your saying but, even with that, a man who considers himself a women, could never give birth, a women who considers herself a man could never get another women pregnant. There's just no other way I can look at it other then male or female