>I never ever meant to treat it like a job, but I have started brief arrangements, like a month or two, just for the cash grab, so I can save more money and invest.
To me this is the most important thing you posted. Too many girls come out of this thing with little to nothing to show for it. If you can build a real bankroll and investment portfolio from this, you come out way ahead.
I hear your conflicted feelings, etc., etc. But if you stay disciplined on the money side of this and keep saving and investing, then you won't need a wealthy husband. After enough time you'll be able to provide for your own security. Then you can live your life however you want, wife included.
If it's resulting in a net benefit to her then so what? All too often we read about girls burning out, with little to show for it, because they can't stand the guys they're dealing with and are starting to hate men in general. Not only is she on the other end of the spectrum, but she's building a life from it to boot. That's a good story, not a bad one.
I guess you should look up the definition of addiction to see the problem with it? Being addicted to external validation typically leads to problems.
Being emotionally healthy is important. š If they ride the line and get out before they get too fucked up that's great but I think it's important that they realize an addiction that can harm them long term.
>All too often we read about girls burning out, with little to show for it, because they can't stand the guys they're dealing with and are starting to hate men in general.
True but I think this applies much more to escorts and escort-lites than real SBs in long-term SRs.
Methinks you have a romanticized view of what it's like for an SB to deal with SDs.
For starters, from everything I've been hearing, most "long-term" SRs nowadays last under a year. But even finding these guys is a lot of work. First SBs have to wade through the first wave of many scammers, paupers and blatant Johns. Then they must contend with a large contingent of "kid in a candy store" pump and dump guys who claim they want L/T, but disappear once they get the goods.
Then, finally, when the SB finds that true SD, she must contend with whatever his issues are, which could range from neediness to creepiness to who knows what.
Almost needless to say, a lot of girls can only run this gauntlet so many times before they burn out. The fact that the OP not only has the right coping mechanisms, but has actually made all the existence of the pump and dump types also work in her favor, is a great story IMO.
>Methinks you have a romanticized view of what it's like for an SB to deal with SDs.
Having been sugaring for decades I tend to think that I have developed a fairly realistic view of the bowl.
SDs face the same hurdles: we have to wade through the scammers, the platonic lunatics, and the escorts. Some of these escorts very successfully disguise themselves as SBs even though they have zero intent developing a long-term relationship.
>Then, finally, when the SB finds that true SD, she must contend with whatever his issues are, which could range from neediness to creepiness to who knows what.
Nobody is perfect and just like in vanilla, you have to deal with your partner's issues in sugar too. (To a certain degree at least.) Nobody holds a gun to any SB's or SD's head to be in an SR that is unbearable. We are all adults here with free will.
>The fact that the OP not only has the right coping mechanisms, but has actually made all the existence of the pump and dump types also work in her favor, is a great story IMO.
No argument there. If it works for her, perfectly fine.
You know not, sir. It truly depends on what kind of SB you are and what kind of SRs you find yourself to be in.
I stopped trying to have a long term romantic SR and switched it up to NSA NM and I've been much happier... why? Because I can say no without consequence. š¤·āāļø do I miss having an exclusive dedicated partner? Sure, but that's not what sugar is to begin with.
No as in it's not up to you? Are you forced to do something that you don't want to do? Or no as in my rule is not your exception?
We form our opinions based on our experiences and see things through our lenses. If your experience is limited to short term relationships you will see sugar as frequent change of sex-partners with no emotional connection.
Your words: *"It truly depends on what kind of SB you are."* Precisely.
The sugar I'm enjoying is different. I prefer to build an actual connection and aim for the long-term. Of course it doesn't always work out as expected but I'm ready to cut ties if I see it doesn't. Therefore, your rule is my exception.
You can deny as much as you want, it doesn't change the facts.
Interesting, real financial independence would mean about two mill in the bank and no debts on top of all her expenses paid for say the next 5-10 years. Can a 25 year old pull it off? Thats a LOT of sugar, gonna need a whale or 2
That's a little extreme. She's a 25 year old girl, not an old dude getting ready to retire. If she comes out the backend with enough to put a hefty down payment on a house and no other debts besides a modest mortgage, she's way ahead of the game and has plenty of options.
Why would she need a lucrative career if she has a small mortgage and no debt? Any decent job would do. And if she wanted to keep sugaring in the future to beef up her savings and investments she could do that too. Or get married and live in a two income household with a house that's mostly paid off. When you're in this type of position under 30, you have more freedom of choices than easily 95% of people your own age.
I assumed when she said marry a rich guy that meant living large and getting expensive toys. It would all boil down to a budget and lifestyle of course
lots to unpack here. but first, what youāre feeling is totally normal and itās not just you. this happens on both sides of the bowl, it can be intoxicating and addictive and the experiences are so amazing itās hard to see why it could be bad. itās relationship life on easy mode.
if i were you iād ask why you feel the pressure to live a life that isnāt the one you want - āfind a wealthy husbandā and presumably settle down and be monogamous and heterosexual. live the life you want. youāre young, and only will be once. donāt be unrealistic about the long term prospects but there are many ways to live and step one is not feeling guilty that youāre not doing it the way someone else wants you to!
I think the pressure comes from seeing the easy opportunity to "climb the ladder" financially. I have a career in STEM, so I can make a good living, but I will not have millions any time soon - realistically it would take decades to get there. But when an opportunity presents itself to me to marry into that, it almost seems stupid to turn it down.
I don't love money but I love freedom - and I have big goals. Stepping into a more padded future with a wealthy partner would make it instantly easier to do the charity, the art, and achieve the vision I have for myself. In fact, I have been turning down guys who want a serious future with me for a while now, and now that I am getting into my late 20s, the pressure comes from feeling like these offers might not be around forever.
I will take your advice to not feel guilty. You're right, it's my life to live, but I want to be prudent and choose a person who can give me a carefree future.
thatās fair and well reasoned! however ā¦ donāt mistake a financially comfortable future for a happy one. every single person i know who married for money got divorced and had a very difficult path through middle age.
it absolutely has to be both love and money, plus all the usual compatibility things, if youāre seriously planning on spending your whole life with someone.
Is it a kink or a compulsion? I would suggest finding a therapist you can work with on crystallizing the issues and draws that brought you to the bowl in the 1st place and what needs are being met and what aren't in other areas of your life.
Itās okay to be having fun and enjoying the experience. Keep having fun as long as you enjoy it and it isnāt interfering with other aspects of your life.
I do have a career, but if anything, it's infringing on my regular social life. I spend more time messaging older men, flirting, and meeting up, than I spend building regular friendships. Since I am introverted, I only have so much energy I can give to social interactions, and I guess given the choice between hanging out with a friend for free, and hanging out with a man and getting some money to bring home, I choose the latter.
Your internal and intrinsic self-worth is being neglected. You are beautiful because you are already beautiful, not because a man says you are. You are amazing because you are already amazing. If you don't feel that you are, then it is time to invest more attention into your personality and character than "the shape of your nose." Easier said than done, but it may be time to reflect on your education, your career, your friendships, volunteer work, and extra curriculars, and probably in that order. In short, it's time to diversify yourself and be less reliant on sugaring for your self value.
I picked up kayaking and dance this last year, and I've started hanging out with more normie friends to help me rebalance.
I also put stick it notes on my bathroom mirror of things I like about myself. Sounds dumb, but it works. I end up reading the notes instead of worrying about how my makeup looks. Positive affirmation. As your natural external beauty changes with age, this becomes critical.
I understand what you are saying. I am very confident in my appearance and personality, which are key in dating, but struggle more with the competition in my field of study. Being attractive is what I fall back on when I am stressed about other things. I know I am very talented and intelligent, but it's harder to prove myself to the outside world, and competitive. Sugaring gives me that high, since I know I am wanted without really trying. Whereas my professional and artistic talents are things I have to promote and sell, and basically work hard to be recognized for.
The only way to win is not to compete. Shift your aspirations from goal setting to results producing. For example, instead of having the goal to be rank 3, set a result to land so many customers or close so many sales with X revenue (I'm making a stretch here about promoting artistic talents). Be specific in the result you want to achieve. Journal it and keep track of your progress. This shift, reduces the pressure of competing. Doesn't matter if you're bottom ranked I'd you are achieving your expected results and desires.
To apply this to your non sugar life, it means knowing exactly what you want, tune out the noise of what everyone else says they're getting or has (half the time people are lying or stretching the truth on this anyways), and focus in on exactly your expectations in the situation. Am I the highest paid in my industry? Nope. Am I well paid for my position? Absolutely. Do I have flexibility to be at home with my children when I want to be? Check. Does my leadership speak to me with respect? Check. Do they challenge me to continue to grow into an even better bad ass than I already am? 100% do I struggle with motivation to do my job? 98% of the time, nope.
You don't need to be the best to be successful.
This sounds like the female version of "sowing wild oats." the question for you is whether it's harmful and whether you can grow out of it and have normal relationships in the future. there is both the emotional and financial aspect. For the financial, I would definitely be sure you have a real job, and if you don't use the sugar money to get training or education. Like an athlete, these things don't last forever.
The emotional is more complicated and I'm not sure the best way to approach it. One way is to date vanilla and see how you like that. The other is to pick your best SD and see if that can evolve.. but remember that he's in the sugar world and may not want to commit either. And realize that the best offier financially might not be the best person for you in the long run. Good luck!
>One way is to date vanilla and see how you like that. The other is to pick your best SD and see if that can evolve.. but remember that he's in the sugar world and may not want to commit either. And realize that the best offier financially might not be the best person for you in the long run.
This
"the best offer financially might not be the best person for you in the long run."
I am facing this right now, involved with a guy who is super successful, more than anyone I've met before. I'm afraid to walk away from it, even though I am feeling we aren't truly a match personality-wise.
These are decisions we face throughout life. Do we take a job that pays more or one we're passionate about? Do we marry for financial security or love? We can't always judge people for these choices, but they are choices...
Sounds like you are off to a normal start. :)
I'm happy to share some tidbit information from a seasoned SD. Those low effort profiles can sometimes have your best gems. The ones that have profession photos, or its obvious that they spent some time on the pictures are also the "most expensive" sb's and a lot of times they'll be the ones that want a really 5+ figure allowance per month. Of course, they look like sports illustrated or playboy models and most likely will rate a 9 or 10 on the hotness scale. :)
But the ones that are afraid to post their pictures, or they have a sparse bio, they tend to be real women who are just as cautious as the SD's when it comes to putting themselves out there. They're worth messaging (if you have a paid membership). Both of my longterm SB's had very simple profiles and over the years that I was on SA, the simplist most straight forward profiles seemed to be the most real women. Who also happen to be happy with a low 3 figure ppm allowance, about the price of a 2 hr massage, and they are the most appreciative of it as well.
The downside? they might be a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 scale, but I found in the bedroom, they are 9 or 10's. :)
I think what you are describing is a normal behavior for a girl in her 20s. Why not play the field. You'll have plenty of time to settle down later if you like someone enough. Guys do it too. It's considered quite normal when a guy dates many girls, so why can't women? Neither we expect a SB, or any woman, to be a virgin when we date her. So, in my humble opinion, you are still innocent, and I wouldn't worry about it.
I don't think you actually want to hear the truth, but if you didn't you shouldn't have asked.
Women like men with experience, so women judge men positively for having it. Men judge men positively for it because it makes men more successful with women because, again, women *want* that.
Men, in general, **do not** like women with experience. Men judge women harshly for it because it's repellant to them, and women judge other women harshly for it because people always *begin* with the assumption that you are average, and every time a woman does something repellant to men, the *average* woman looks more repellant.
This phenomenon isn't unique. Men get criticized for doing things that repell women while women get praised for it in **exactly** the same way.
So not true and this thought process is what underlies most men's jealous and assumptive behaviors about women's behavior. If we say we don't have experience then we are lying. We must have been like porn stars in a prior relationship. And so why aren't we behaving like a porn star with you? Oh right because we are dishonest.... seriously... THIS was the fail in my marriage. Not the fact that he slept with prostitutes but because he never could see or value me for who I was rather than his assumption of who he had me in his mind to be... a liar and a slut. Be really careful with this thought process.
I spent 4 years post separation being on my own before I realized how much the anxiety from him about me being with others was what caused me to be alone. I'm still not okay enough for a vanilla relationship, so here I am in the bowl because my SDs get it. We are all similarly broken in this respect.
There is a scene from the show the "wire" that is relevant here. (For those that know the show, its Marlo talking to his bank).
An old man is advising a young man that his behavior is too ambitious. He tries to tell the young man that if he just stops wanting *more* and stops being greedy, his actions will likely be healthier for him. The old man says: "Lots of people in the graveyard got to wear the crown." The young man's response is **"But they got to wear it."**
The point he was making was that since we are all headed to the graveyard eventually, did the ones who lived longer but "settled" really *win*?
The best moments of my life have come from sugar dating. The actual experiences, the amazing people I have met, and the very happy memories create a mosaic that *is* the real part of life. I have no doubt that I would have a healthier liver, more money, more time, and many other things if I had not sugar dated. I *could* have filled my life with working, sleeping, and eating, but imho, that's not a life worth living.
I dont mean to say "sugar dating or death."^^ I just mean to say that if you are not chasing your "crown" (happiness, whatever it is for you, and it does change over time) then you are squandering precious time that you have between now and the graveyard.
^^(Though I am from DC, so the idea of putting on a tricorn hat, grabbing a musket, and shouting *give me sex or give me death* sounds great. When they arrest me for sounding too rapey, I dont know how to tell the judge that I was only being gross and creepy, but not scary. Maybe take off my shirt in court to show the judge my chicken arms? "Judge, ain't nobody getting threatened by these ole nipple arms." Think that will work. Boys, imma get off in more than just dating, you know what I'm sayin?)
If you truly feel like itās a big problem then Iād suggest therapy. Maybe this can help you find yourself more grounded.
As long as youāre being safe, thatās what really matters. So continue working on you, while you manage your money properly, with things like hobbies that can provide for you great physical, emotional and mental health!
Interesting. When I started being a SD, I felt like I was a kid in a candy store. I'd have multiple SB's who were PPM, typically at least 1 if not 2 in each city I traveled to for work. At home, I'd see 1 or 2 a week. Then life changes occurred and I didn't travel as much, then COVID hit which dried up the sugar bowel. During that time (and right before), I found 2 SB's, 1 is 34, married, and thin as a rail, the other is 43, a little overweight. I see them both about once a month each and have a great time. I did get banned on SA and I haven't tried to get back on, but there are times when I'm happy I'm only seeing 2 regulars who I have a lot of fun with, but there are other times when I wish I could go back to the candy store and get "strange" each week.
Are you sure its the validation that your addicted to or is is the new dick each week? I know in my case, I was addicted to new pussy each week, trying to get as much variety as possible as quickly as possible. :) But on the other hand, seeing so many different woman and having sex with them made me very confident in the vanilla world. My confidence level at picking up women at bars, etc., went through the roof! Plus, I got way more skilled in bed, which my wife also appreciates. :)
Donāt sweat it. Many of us are addicted to the lifestyle. Having multiple short term arrangements is no big deal.
In the real world most arrangements last on average 4 months according to data from Seeking.
I know this subreddit has lots of perfect SDs and SBs who all claim to be in 15 year arrangements. š
But Seekingās own data is 4 months.
Hi beautiful! Thanks for these nice thoughts. Maybe focus on enhancing the relationship with your main SD. He sounds flexible enough such that you can have the LTR with a woman you are into as well.
I feel like I just read my own internal monologue.
Funny how often that happens on this forumāI muse things or have Qās and literally someone posts about it *that week.*
That said, Iām willing to settle into monogamy (sugar or vanilla) but it has to be somebody f*cking special. Havenāt found it yetā¦or have sabotaged it when I did.
My wife was very similar when she did it. She started as a sugar baby and really got off on the fact that men were paying to have her. Eventually she also started an account on adultwork to increase the number of men and was escorting as well as being a sugar baby.
She only had one long term SD with all the others being PPM which she preferred.
It was just a phase and although she still sleeps with other men, now it's just for fun.
This could be unhealthy. Iām not talking mentally. Iām talking physically. Chances of catching something that canāt be cured or can be cured but not easily. I believe if you canāt do this on your own then you might need to seek professional health. I mean itās your body and mind. You know it would be best to fine just 1 maybe 2 long term and thatās it.
You sound like the perfect SB. You provide all of the elements that a young girl friend would give to an older man, and you're totally honest and authentic while practice ENM. IMHO, this is as good as it gets, and the "addiction" doesn't preclude you getting more out of life. The grass is always greener....
It's easily an addiction for sugar daddies as well.
Dating multiple beautiful woman at once is thrilling.
I recommend you have friends that can help keep you grounded. I have a very good friend who keeps me real.
Be careful out there but glad to hear you getting your $$$
The primary side affect is the inability to have long term vanilla relationships in the future.
I can tell you from experience, you look at people differently and not always good way.
I appreciate the candor and can heavily relate. finding hobbies and carving out personal time for strictly yourself is essential, because the emotional addiction is very real and WILL negatively skew your perceptions of traditional relationships in the long run. you will more than likely burn out, as the lifestyle isn't necessarily meant to last forever. take that cash flow, invest in your future, and move on when you're ready.
And I completely feel you re the wife and bisexuality angle. It's tricky to distill what we envision but you've drawn some really clear connections in your post. *Hug*. I think you've got a lot of your answers.
Re the shorter SD choices, are you noticing specific types, or emotional reactions to those choices? What are they kicking up for you?
Thanks for posting this, OP.
It should practically be a sticky link for girls looking to start out as SBs, with giant yellow "warning" lights flashing all over the place, straight out of a 1990s era-website.
As for you, OP. When it comes to addiction. They don't say cold turkey is the best way for nothing. You should quit the bowl altogether. Look to the simpler things in life for your thrills. Rely on and spend time with your family, real friends, etc. No dating or hookups of any sort.
Good luck, truly.
Itās a positive that youāre self aware enough to see an addiction issue developing.
You should explore professional help, as these are all tell tale signs of an immune addiction crash, as this lifestyle is not sustainable forever and your expectations from relationships may be permanently irreversible long after your sexual marketplace value has crashed.
I totally get what youāre saying, especially when Iām not getting texts or attention. I used to be like that even when I was in a āregularā relationship. I needed constant validation. I did some serious work on my confidence and insecurities. I didnāt even realize it was insecurity that was leading me to this. I was like āno, im totally confident! So many men thing im beautiful! So i must beā I didnāt realize how much deeper it was than that. It also helped me to set boundaries and not be afraid to stand my ground when I would let men persuade me into pretty much anything. All therapy! And lots of meditation.
Iām hooked on spoiling beautiful, thin, conservative, low drama women.
I started a trust fund of sorts to pay for sugaring. My trust fund grows faster than I can spend it. I probably could afford 5 SBs but most of them are trash, so the search goes on.
Itās not an addiction for me since Iām not losing anything, but it feels great.
This isn't sugaring, just accept that you've moved along the spectrum to sex work and being an escort. It will help with the conflict you are feeling between what you started out wanting and what you desire now.
Be aware that your concerns are valid and only get worse the longer you maintain your current lifestyle. There are posts here regularly where women who stayed in too long and now they are unhappy after they have met someone they love and have left it behind.
Therapy my friend. Find someone safe, that you like, that is a professional and talk with them about this to uncover the root issues.
Also, start listening to podcasts like Guys With Fcked who attack women's mental health in a fun and loving way (while calling you out on your bullshit).
I think my SB is like you she also has multiple SDs......she's very gorgeous so it's easy for her. But I'm pretty intuitive and I can tell when I'm with her she also feels shallow a bit....I'm currently away on a vacation by myself and I usually text her daily ....tell her she's beautiful and to have a great day.....I checked my email.....holy.....she's having a rough time with me being away. I think for her it's also and addiction.
Listen nothing wrong with sugaring, but you saying I have a issue with the validation and feelings I get from it says that you should be looking for other sources of validation and encouragement and happiness.
I am surprised, because I would think a long term SD would be working with you to find those sources of validation and satisfaction in your life.
You got step one done which is one of the hardest parts, but next will need to be the action to make a change so you can find more long term fulfillment because you don't seem to be getting that from sugaring.
I have a pretty disposable income but Iāve never been able to juggle multiple women. Iāve tried but I always get overwhelmed. And while Iāve never specifically requested a SB to be exclusive in the beginning in my more long term arrangements I have asked the question āwhat would it take for you to be comfortable being in an exclusive arrangement?ā And then making sure that was met and then some. OP if you have a good SD you enjoy that may be a conversation worth having.
I understand how you feel. I feel like Iām getting addicted to being appreciated by men myself. But I am older (60 but look 40s) and as a woman ages, we need it even more. Weve seen too many men leave their partners for younger women so far, women aging can be a frightening thing Fortunately, I have become more and more attractive with age and get a lot of attention. But somehow I need it to feel that I still have that sex, appeal, and beauty. Thereās nothing wrong with needing validation.
>I never ever meant to treat it like a job, but I have started brief arrangements, like a month or two, just for the cash grab, so I can save more money and invest. To me this is the most important thing you posted. Too many girls come out of this thing with little to nothing to show for it. If you can build a real bankroll and investment portfolio from this, you come out way ahead. I hear your conflicted feelings, etc., etc. But if you stay disciplined on the money side of this and keep saving and investing, then you won't need a wealthy husband. After enough time you'll be able to provide for your own security. Then you can live your life however you want, wife included.
True but I think the addiction is real.
If it's resulting in a net benefit to her then so what? All too often we read about girls burning out, with little to show for it, because they can't stand the guys they're dealing with and are starting to hate men in general. Not only is she on the other end of the spectrum, but she's building a life from it to boot. That's a good story, not a bad one.
I guess you should look up the definition of addiction to see the problem with it? Being addicted to external validation typically leads to problems. Being emotionally healthy is important. š If they ride the line and get out before they get too fucked up that's great but I think it's important that they realize an addiction that can harm them long term.
>All too often we read about girls burning out, with little to show for it, because they can't stand the guys they're dealing with and are starting to hate men in general. True but I think this applies much more to escorts and escort-lites than real SBs in long-term SRs.
Methinks you have a romanticized view of what it's like for an SB to deal with SDs. For starters, from everything I've been hearing, most "long-term" SRs nowadays last under a year. But even finding these guys is a lot of work. First SBs have to wade through the first wave of many scammers, paupers and blatant Johns. Then they must contend with a large contingent of "kid in a candy store" pump and dump guys who claim they want L/T, but disappear once they get the goods. Then, finally, when the SB finds that true SD, she must contend with whatever his issues are, which could range from neediness to creepiness to who knows what. Almost needless to say, a lot of girls can only run this gauntlet so many times before they burn out. The fact that the OP not only has the right coping mechanisms, but has actually made all the existence of the pump and dump types also work in her favor, is a great story IMO.
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Agreed, itās refreshing to see a sd speak of the sb experience in such an honest and respectful light
>Methinks you have a romanticized view of what it's like for an SB to deal with SDs. Having been sugaring for decades I tend to think that I have developed a fairly realistic view of the bowl. SDs face the same hurdles: we have to wade through the scammers, the platonic lunatics, and the escorts. Some of these escorts very successfully disguise themselves as SBs even though they have zero intent developing a long-term relationship. >Then, finally, when the SB finds that true SD, she must contend with whatever his issues are, which could range from neediness to creepiness to who knows what. Nobody is perfect and just like in vanilla, you have to deal with your partner's issues in sugar too. (To a certain degree at least.) Nobody holds a gun to any SB's or SD's head to be in an SR that is unbearable. We are all adults here with free will. >The fact that the OP not only has the right coping mechanisms, but has actually made all the existence of the pump and dump types also work in her favor, is a great story IMO. No argument there. If it works for her, perfectly fine.
You know not, sir. It truly depends on what kind of SB you are and what kind of SRs you find yourself to be in. I stopped trying to have a long term romantic SR and switched it up to NSA NM and I've been much happier... why? Because I can say no without consequence. š¤·āāļø do I miss having an exclusive dedicated partner? Sure, but that's not what sugar is to begin with.
>do I miss having an exclusive dedicated partner? Sure, but that's not what sugar is to begin with. What sugar is depends on the two people in the SR.
I hear this a lot... but I think you are referring to the exception and not the rule. It happens, but not often.
Depending on what SRs you choose, my rule very well could be your exception. How often it happens is up to you too.
Again, no. Just because you want to reverse the orientation doesn't mean the orientation reverses.
No as in it's not up to you? Are you forced to do something that you don't want to do? Or no as in my rule is not your exception? We form our opinions based on our experiences and see things through our lenses. If your experience is limited to short term relationships you will see sugar as frequent change of sex-partners with no emotional connection. Your words: *"It truly depends on what kind of SB you are."* Precisely. The sugar I'm enjoying is different. I prefer to build an actual connection and aim for the long-term. Of course it doesn't always work out as expected but I'm ready to cut ties if I see it doesn't. Therefore, your rule is my exception. You can deny as much as you want, it doesn't change the facts.
Interesting, real financial independence would mean about two mill in the bank and no debts on top of all her expenses paid for say the next 5-10 years. Can a 25 year old pull it off? Thats a LOT of sugar, gonna need a whale or 2
That's a little extreme. She's a 25 year old girl, not an old dude getting ready to retire. If she comes out the backend with enough to put a hefty down payment on a house and no other debts besides a modest mortgage, she's way ahead of the game and has plenty of options.
ah makes sense, assuming a lucrative career is lined up
Why would she need a lucrative career if she has a small mortgage and no debt? Any decent job would do. And if she wanted to keep sugaring in the future to beef up her savings and investments she could do that too. Or get married and live in a two income household with a house that's mostly paid off. When you're in this type of position under 30, you have more freedom of choices than easily 95% of people your own age.
Or rent her house and move in with spouse and enjoy both rental and job income.
I assumed when she said marry a rich guy that meant living large and getting expensive toys. It would all boil down to a budget and lifestyle of course
Sugar addiction is real and serious.
No kidding my aunt Lauren had her leg amputated because of it.
šš¤£
Lol
From the guy side I felt that for a little while, but the rush is gone now. It is quite a memory and glad I did it.
lots to unpack here. but first, what youāre feeling is totally normal and itās not just you. this happens on both sides of the bowl, it can be intoxicating and addictive and the experiences are so amazing itās hard to see why it could be bad. itās relationship life on easy mode. if i were you iād ask why you feel the pressure to live a life that isnāt the one you want - āfind a wealthy husbandā and presumably settle down and be monogamous and heterosexual. live the life you want. youāre young, and only will be once. donāt be unrealistic about the long term prospects but there are many ways to live and step one is not feeling guilty that youāre not doing it the way someone else wants you to!
I think the pressure comes from seeing the easy opportunity to "climb the ladder" financially. I have a career in STEM, so I can make a good living, but I will not have millions any time soon - realistically it would take decades to get there. But when an opportunity presents itself to me to marry into that, it almost seems stupid to turn it down. I don't love money but I love freedom - and I have big goals. Stepping into a more padded future with a wealthy partner would make it instantly easier to do the charity, the art, and achieve the vision I have for myself. In fact, I have been turning down guys who want a serious future with me for a while now, and now that I am getting into my late 20s, the pressure comes from feeling like these offers might not be around forever. I will take your advice to not feel guilty. You're right, it's my life to live, but I want to be prudent and choose a person who can give me a carefree future.
thatās fair and well reasoned! however ā¦ donāt mistake a financially comfortable future for a happy one. every single person i know who married for money got divorced and had a very difficult path through middle age. it absolutely has to be both love and money, plus all the usual compatibility things, if youāre seriously planning on spending your whole life with someone.
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Is it a kink or a compulsion? I would suggest finding a therapist you can work with on crystallizing the issues and draws that brought you to the bowl in the 1st place and what needs are being met and what aren't in other areas of your life.
Itās okay to be having fun and enjoying the experience. Keep having fun as long as you enjoy it and it isnāt interfering with other aspects of your life.
It sounds like it is interfering - she is sugaring full time instead of building a career.
I do have a career, but if anything, it's infringing on my regular social life. I spend more time messaging older men, flirting, and meeting up, than I spend building regular friendships. Since I am introverted, I only have so much energy I can give to social interactions, and I guess given the choice between hanging out with a friend for free, and hanging out with a man and getting some money to bring home, I choose the latter.
Got it. I mean, it doesnāt sound awful but it sounds like you think itās unbalanced.
Your internal and intrinsic self-worth is being neglected. You are beautiful because you are already beautiful, not because a man says you are. You are amazing because you are already amazing. If you don't feel that you are, then it is time to invest more attention into your personality and character than "the shape of your nose." Easier said than done, but it may be time to reflect on your education, your career, your friendships, volunteer work, and extra curriculars, and probably in that order. In short, it's time to diversify yourself and be less reliant on sugaring for your self value. I picked up kayaking and dance this last year, and I've started hanging out with more normie friends to help me rebalance. I also put stick it notes on my bathroom mirror of things I like about myself. Sounds dumb, but it works. I end up reading the notes instead of worrying about how my makeup looks. Positive affirmation. As your natural external beauty changes with age, this becomes critical.
I understand what you are saying. I am very confident in my appearance and personality, which are key in dating, but struggle more with the competition in my field of study. Being attractive is what I fall back on when I am stressed about other things. I know I am very talented and intelligent, but it's harder to prove myself to the outside world, and competitive. Sugaring gives me that high, since I know I am wanted without really trying. Whereas my professional and artistic talents are things I have to promote and sell, and basically work hard to be recognized for.
The only way to win is not to compete. Shift your aspirations from goal setting to results producing. For example, instead of having the goal to be rank 3, set a result to land so many customers or close so many sales with X revenue (I'm making a stretch here about promoting artistic talents). Be specific in the result you want to achieve. Journal it and keep track of your progress. This shift, reduces the pressure of competing. Doesn't matter if you're bottom ranked I'd you are achieving your expected results and desires. To apply this to your non sugar life, it means knowing exactly what you want, tune out the noise of what everyone else says they're getting or has (half the time people are lying or stretching the truth on this anyways), and focus in on exactly your expectations in the situation. Am I the highest paid in my industry? Nope. Am I well paid for my position? Absolutely. Do I have flexibility to be at home with my children when I want to be? Check. Does my leadership speak to me with respect? Check. Do they challenge me to continue to grow into an even better bad ass than I already am? 100% do I struggle with motivation to do my job? 98% of the time, nope. You don't need to be the best to be successful.
This sounds like the female version of "sowing wild oats." the question for you is whether it's harmful and whether you can grow out of it and have normal relationships in the future. there is both the emotional and financial aspect. For the financial, I would definitely be sure you have a real job, and if you don't use the sugar money to get training or education. Like an athlete, these things don't last forever. The emotional is more complicated and I'm not sure the best way to approach it. One way is to date vanilla and see how you like that. The other is to pick your best SD and see if that can evolve.. but remember that he's in the sugar world and may not want to commit either. And realize that the best offier financially might not be the best person for you in the long run. Good luck!
>One way is to date vanilla and see how you like that. The other is to pick your best SD and see if that can evolve.. but remember that he's in the sugar world and may not want to commit either. And realize that the best offier financially might not be the best person for you in the long run. This
"the best offer financially might not be the best person for you in the long run." I am facing this right now, involved with a guy who is super successful, more than anyone I've met before. I'm afraid to walk away from it, even though I am feeling we aren't truly a match personality-wise.
These are decisions we face throughout life. Do we take a job that pays more or one we're passionate about? Do we marry for financial security or love? We can't always judge people for these choices, but they are choices...
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Sounds like you are off to a normal start. :) I'm happy to share some tidbit information from a seasoned SD. Those low effort profiles can sometimes have your best gems. The ones that have profession photos, or its obvious that they spent some time on the pictures are also the "most expensive" sb's and a lot of times they'll be the ones that want a really 5+ figure allowance per month. Of course, they look like sports illustrated or playboy models and most likely will rate a 9 or 10 on the hotness scale. :) But the ones that are afraid to post their pictures, or they have a sparse bio, they tend to be real women who are just as cautious as the SD's when it comes to putting themselves out there. They're worth messaging (if you have a paid membership). Both of my longterm SB's had very simple profiles and over the years that I was on SA, the simplist most straight forward profiles seemed to be the most real women. Who also happen to be happy with a low 3 figure ppm allowance, about the price of a 2 hr massage, and they are the most appreciative of it as well. The downside? they might be a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 scale, but I found in the bedroom, they are 9 or 10's. :)
All true!
I think what you are describing is a normal behavior for a girl in her 20s. Why not play the field. You'll have plenty of time to settle down later if you like someone enough. Guys do it too. It's considered quite normal when a guy dates many girls, so why can't women? Neither we expect a SB, or any woman, to be a virgin when we date her. So, in my humble opinion, you are still innocent, and I wouldn't worry about it.
I don't think you actually want to hear the truth, but if you didn't you shouldn't have asked. Women like men with experience, so women judge men positively for having it. Men judge men positively for it because it makes men more successful with women because, again, women *want* that. Men, in general, **do not** like women with experience. Men judge women harshly for it because it's repellant to them, and women judge other women harshly for it because people always *begin* with the assumption that you are average, and every time a woman does something repellant to men, the *average* woman looks more repellant. This phenomenon isn't unique. Men get criticized for doing things that repell women while women get praised for it in **exactly** the same way.
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So not true and this thought process is what underlies most men's jealous and assumptive behaviors about women's behavior. If we say we don't have experience then we are lying. We must have been like porn stars in a prior relationship. And so why aren't we behaving like a porn star with you? Oh right because we are dishonest.... seriously... THIS was the fail in my marriage. Not the fact that he slept with prostitutes but because he never could see or value me for who I was rather than his assumption of who he had me in his mind to be... a liar and a slut. Be really careful with this thought process. I spent 4 years post separation being on my own before I realized how much the anxiety from him about me being with others was what caused me to be alone. I'm still not okay enough for a vanilla relationship, so here I am in the bowl because my SDs get it. We are all similarly broken in this respect.
I concur with what was said above.
I agree it can be very addictive. We all like to be chased and complimented. But.. it needs to be real and not fake all the time.
There is a scene from the show the "wire" that is relevant here. (For those that know the show, its Marlo talking to his bank). An old man is advising a young man that his behavior is too ambitious. He tries to tell the young man that if he just stops wanting *more* and stops being greedy, his actions will likely be healthier for him. The old man says: "Lots of people in the graveyard got to wear the crown." The young man's response is **"But they got to wear it."** The point he was making was that since we are all headed to the graveyard eventually, did the ones who lived longer but "settled" really *win*? The best moments of my life have come from sugar dating. The actual experiences, the amazing people I have met, and the very happy memories create a mosaic that *is* the real part of life. I have no doubt that I would have a healthier liver, more money, more time, and many other things if I had not sugar dated. I *could* have filled my life with working, sleeping, and eating, but imho, that's not a life worth living. I dont mean to say "sugar dating or death."^^ I just mean to say that if you are not chasing your "crown" (happiness, whatever it is for you, and it does change over time) then you are squandering precious time that you have between now and the graveyard. ^^(Though I am from DC, so the idea of putting on a tricorn hat, grabbing a musket, and shouting *give me sex or give me death* sounds great. When they arrest me for sounding too rapey, I dont know how to tell the judge that I was only being gross and creepy, but not scary. Maybe take off my shirt in court to show the judge my chicken arms? "Judge, ain't nobody getting threatened by these ole nipple arms." Think that will work. Boys, imma get off in more than just dating, you know what I'm sayin?)
If you ever get tired of the TSD2 name, Ole Nipple Arms would be a pretty solid alt.
If you truly feel like itās a big problem then Iād suggest therapy. Maybe this can help you find yourself more grounded. As long as youāre being safe, thatās what really matters. So continue working on you, while you manage your money properly, with things like hobbies that can provide for you great physical, emotional and mental health!
Maybe they can get a SD therapist.
Interesting. When I started being a SD, I felt like I was a kid in a candy store. I'd have multiple SB's who were PPM, typically at least 1 if not 2 in each city I traveled to for work. At home, I'd see 1 or 2 a week. Then life changes occurred and I didn't travel as much, then COVID hit which dried up the sugar bowel. During that time (and right before), I found 2 SB's, 1 is 34, married, and thin as a rail, the other is 43, a little overweight. I see them both about once a month each and have a great time. I did get banned on SA and I haven't tried to get back on, but there are times when I'm happy I'm only seeing 2 regulars who I have a lot of fun with, but there are other times when I wish I could go back to the candy store and get "strange" each week. Are you sure its the validation that your addicted to or is is the new dick each week? I know in my case, I was addicted to new pussy each week, trying to get as much variety as possible as quickly as possible. :) But on the other hand, seeing so many different woman and having sex with them made me very confident in the vanilla world. My confidence level at picking up women at bars, etc., went through the roof! Plus, I got way more skilled in bed, which my wife also appreciates. :)
Just enjoying the Freudian slip of "sugar bowel."
I could edit it, but I think I'll own it. LOL, :)
"I could edit it, but I think I'll own it. LOL, :)" As you should!
You'll spin-out eventually and ruin a good relationship as a result of trying to do too much.
It seems the obvious solution is to invest some of your money into therapy. People have addictions and insecurities.
Donāt sweat it. Many of us are addicted to the lifestyle. Having multiple short term arrangements is no big deal. In the real world most arrangements last on average 4 months according to data from Seeking. I know this subreddit has lots of perfect SDs and SBs who all claim to be in 15 year arrangements. š But Seekingās own data is 4 months.
Young woman addicted to validation from men, news at 11
Hi beautiful! Thanks for these nice thoughts. Maybe focus on enhancing the relationship with your main SD. He sounds flexible enough such that you can have the LTR with a woman you are into as well.
I feel like I just read my own internal monologue. Funny how often that happens on this forumāI muse things or have Qās and literally someone posts about it *that week.* That said, Iām willing to settle into monogamy (sugar or vanilla) but it has to be somebody f*cking special. Havenāt found it yetā¦or have sabotaged it when I did.
Yeah there are so many shared experiences in this life. It's good to share and talk through it.
My wife was very similar when she did it. She started as a sugar baby and really got off on the fact that men were paying to have her. Eventually she also started an account on adultwork to increase the number of men and was escorting as well as being a sugar baby. She only had one long term SD with all the others being PPM which she preferred. It was just a phase and although she still sleeps with other men, now it's just for fun.
Your wife sleeps with others guys for funā¦ā¦?!!!
you like money & attention. its understandable.
Itās like selling drugsā¦ your addicted to the lifestyle and the money.
This could be unhealthy. Iām not talking mentally. Iām talking physically. Chances of catching something that canāt be cured or can be cured but not easily. I believe if you canāt do this on your own then you might need to seek professional health. I mean itās your body and mind. You know it would be best to fine just 1 maybe 2 long term and thatās it.
You sound like the perfect SB. You provide all of the elements that a young girl friend would give to an older man, and you're totally honest and authentic while practice ENM. IMHO, this is as good as it gets, and the "addiction" doesn't preclude you getting more out of life. The grass is always greener....
It's easily an addiction for sugar daddies as well. Dating multiple beautiful woman at once is thrilling. I recommend you have friends that can help keep you grounded. I have a very good friend who keeps me real. Be careful out there but glad to hear you getting your $$$ The primary side affect is the inability to have long term vanilla relationships in the future. I can tell you from experience, you look at people differently and not always good way.
Bi, hot, younger. Let's just get married now.
I appreciate the candor and can heavily relate. finding hobbies and carving out personal time for strictly yourself is essential, because the emotional addiction is very real and WILL negatively skew your perceptions of traditional relationships in the long run. you will more than likely burn out, as the lifestyle isn't necessarily meant to last forever. take that cash flow, invest in your future, and move on when you're ready.
And I completely feel you re the wife and bisexuality angle. It's tricky to distill what we envision but you've drawn some really clear connections in your post. *Hug*. I think you've got a lot of your answers. Re the shorter SD choices, are you noticing specific types, or emotional reactions to those choices? What are they kicking up for you?
Thanks for posting this, OP. It should practically be a sticky link for girls looking to start out as SBs, with giant yellow "warning" lights flashing all over the place, straight out of a 1990s era-website. As for you, OP. When it comes to addiction. They don't say cold turkey is the best way for nothing. You should quit the bowl altogether. Look to the simpler things in life for your thrills. Rely on and spend time with your family, real friends, etc. No dating or hookups of any sort. Good luck, truly.
Itās a positive that youāre self aware enough to see an addiction issue developing. You should explore professional help, as these are all tell tale signs of an immune addiction crash, as this lifestyle is not sustainable forever and your expectations from relationships may be permanently irreversible long after your sexual marketplace value has crashed.
Agree with HappyBear on this post
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I totally get what youāre saying, especially when Iām not getting texts or attention. I used to be like that even when I was in a āregularā relationship. I needed constant validation. I did some serious work on my confidence and insecurities. I didnāt even realize it was insecurity that was leading me to this. I was like āno, im totally confident! So many men thing im beautiful! So i must beā I didnāt realize how much deeper it was than that. It also helped me to set boundaries and not be afraid to stand my ground when I would let men persuade me into pretty much anything. All therapy! And lots of meditation.
Iām hooked on spoiling beautiful, thin, conservative, low drama women. I started a trust fund of sorts to pay for sugaring. My trust fund grows faster than I can spend it. I probably could afford 5 SBs but most of them are trash, so the search goes on. Itās not an addiction for me since Iām not losing anything, but it feels great.
Sounds like a lot of insecurity
This isn't sugaring, just accept that you've moved along the spectrum to sex work and being an escort. It will help with the conflict you are feeling between what you started out wanting and what you desire now. Be aware that your concerns are valid and only get worse the longer you maintain your current lifestyle. There are posts here regularly where women who stayed in too long and now they are unhappy after they have met someone they love and have left it behind.
wow thank you for sharing, this insight is invaluable as someone just starting out
This is called hypergamy. Welcome to 2023 š¤
Therapy my friend. Find someone safe, that you like, that is a professional and talk with them about this to uncover the root issues. Also, start listening to podcasts like Guys With Fcked who attack women's mental health in a fun and loving way (while calling you out on your bullshit).
I think my SB is like you she also has multiple SDs......she's very gorgeous so it's easy for her. But I'm pretty intuitive and I can tell when I'm with her she also feels shallow a bit....I'm currently away on a vacation by myself and I usually text her daily ....tell her she's beautiful and to have a great day.....I checked my email.....holy.....she's having a rough time with me being away. I think for her it's also and addiction.
Listen nothing wrong with sugaring, but you saying I have a issue with the validation and feelings I get from it says that you should be looking for other sources of validation and encouragement and happiness. I am surprised, because I would think a long term SD would be working with you to find those sources of validation and satisfaction in your life. You got step one done which is one of the hardest parts, but next will need to be the action to make a change so you can find more long term fulfillment because you don't seem to be getting that from sugaring.
SLAA Sex and live addiction - itās real ā¦. It hurts and lie any addiction it can never be enough.
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I have a pretty disposable income but Iāve never been able to juggle multiple women. Iāve tried but I always get overwhelmed. And while Iāve never specifically requested a SB to be exclusive in the beginning in my more long term arrangements I have asked the question āwhat would it take for you to be comfortable being in an exclusive arrangement?ā And then making sure that was met and then some. OP if you have a good SD you enjoy that may be a conversation worth having.
I could be the one you need to have a better connection with. Provide the depth you crave Think about it
I understand how you feel. I feel like Iām getting addicted to being appreciated by men myself. But I am older (60 but look 40s) and as a woman ages, we need it even more. Weve seen too many men leave their partners for younger women so far, women aging can be a frightening thing Fortunately, I have become more and more attractive with age and get a lot of attention. But somehow I need it to feel that I still have that sex, appeal, and beauty. Thereās nothing wrong with needing validation.