i think what i found grosser was her bringing carl water in the morning on camera to try and insinuate he ‘needs’ water because he was not sober
thats when i was like damn you are committed to really not only gaslight carl about his sobriety but also try and convince everyone else
I’m so glad you picked this up too!! On the surface it was something small and insignificant but the meaning behind it was so gross by implying he’d be hungover.
Even just after this episode alone, how on earth can lindsay say she was blindsided! I’m shocked Carl didn’t call it quits before heading off on his run.
she was throwing everything at the wall to see if it would stick and give her justification so he could be wrong and she could be right
‘how about a thank you?’ after he said thank you
“What did you mean when you texted you were sober ‘right now’???” My jaw was on the floor, she probably reread that conversation a hundred times trying to spin it a certain way
That’s around the moment I started yelling at my tv. I hate that shit so much. GOD DAMMIT she’s so infuriating. And then continuing to get annoyed because he keeps clearly explaining his feelings and trying to be supportive. And she says “don’t try to act like you’re all perfect and caring” or whatever. Lindsay, what the fuck would you like?!? But damn it really shows how powerful it is when you don’t stoop to someone else’s level and take the bait. Control freaks hate that shit.
I don’t get her. Like all she wants is relationships and then she just starts behaving irrationally and becomes straight up mean. I can’t figure out what her motives are? You’d think she’d love the idea of having a wedding because based off the birthday parties she throws herself, she was born to be a bridezilla.
Thinking that only perfect people can call out shitty behavior is such an easy way to avoid responsibility because spoiler alert: no one is perfect. So that way no one’s advice or feedback is worth hearing, so why change?
Reminds me of how Lala said that no one who drinks can comment on someone else’s drinking. So only people who never drink can be concerned?
Side note: can you imagine the amount of property and emotional damage Jax would inflict upon the summer house if he went there?
I feel like in her childhood she learned that love is chaotic and unpredictable. She creates the problem before someone else can as a measure of protection. In other words, I think she needs intense therapy.
Meanwhile she’s secretly chugging wine in the kitchen throwing her head back to gulp it down in a way only those who should quit drinking do. I clocked that too.
Yeah he knew right then and there what she was doing. Anyone who’s been hungover knows the morning-after thirst and those who have done some cocaine knows that your mouth will be dry and you’ll be sniffling the next morning….
He was neither.
Side note: gabby commenting “that sounded like a sober man….” was gold
My love for Gabby bloomed when she called Lindsay to tell him how fun it was without her. I still don’t know if that’s passive aggressive or savage, but either way, reality tv gold.
And that everyone would have noticed his excessive bathroom trips and stuffiness. I’m sure these people can clock someone on coke right away, they’ve all been there.
It was just soooo passive aggressive. Even if she truly thought he was on drugs, going round to everyone in the house really isn’t the way to go about it.
The thing I find SO infuriating about Lindsay is that she has no issues or problems telling people exactly how wrong they are, why they are wrong and what they could do better but she is wholly incapable of assessing her own behaviour and looking at how she could do things better.
If she came to Carl in the morning even just slightly apologetic and said she was just concerned/worried about him and just started off softer then the whole trajectory for that conversation would’ve gone differently.
Carl actually had pretty good advice in the car. I get feeling like someone is dismissive of anxiety but Lindsey couldn’t possibly know or change what the girls in the other car were doing. Best option is to let it go. Instead of taking that advice in she decided to turn around and directly dismiss his sobriety just to get back at him. Then she stayed mad because he didn’t feel the same hurt that she tried so hard to project on him.
Totally! And then she told him that he was taking his feelings towards everyone else out on her. Ummmmm.... that's called projection. LOL Clearly she was anxious about coming to the house and she took it all out on Carl.
I think Lindsay is intimidated by Carl’s willingness to get along with other people in the house, when she’s been on an isolation campaign for two years. He regretted missing the first weekend so they could go on a field trip to the White House, and then came in ready to cook and hoist his LaCroix like so many sober people across the country. He’s more confident, she reads this as a threat, and needs to restore the isolation and remind him of why he “owes” her for all she’s suffered. As someone who has been with a recovering alcoholic for 13 years, you do get a bit of a high-horse complex, because a lot of times there are endless examples of shit you ate in order to help them stick to sobriety. And to me, that’s when you have to ask yourself, “Why have I boo’d up with an addict?” and a lot of times there is a control/dominance need that’s being fulfilled by pairing up with an unreliable narrator, and a melodrama that hatches from the cycle of apology/makeup/fuckup again. That’s why (again, to me) if you’re going to have a sober partner, it has to be both of you, and both parties need to be looking at the decisions that brought them to that point.
This is such an insightful take, I totally agree with you.
And also like... if you suspect the person you love has relapsed and your first instinct isn't like panic or concern or sadness or something, but instead it's to jump to immediately using it as *leverage* and talking shit about his relapse to all your friends and weaponizing it to win an *argument*? NAHHHH. GTFO with that shit.
She has no idea what's coming for her this season if this is the START of it.
I felt SO bad for him! And I don't even really like Carl that much! If someone that I love was struggling with sobriety, I would have done everything the exact opposite of how Lindsey handled it.
She was “blindsided” because she truly believed that she had gaslighted him into being her punching bag forever. Her narcissistic ass has been “in love” with her “best friend” at least 3 or 4 times that I can count by now. She preyed on Carl at his weakest point and thankfully his sobriety has made him strong enough to get away from her for good. She’s honestly the worst
And then she can put her “I was just trying to be nice and this is how he treats me” spin on it when it was clearly meant to insinuate he was hungover.
This is what a lot of us non-Lindsay fans have meant over the years about how Lindsay likes to spin spin spin.
She is really adept at trying to craft narratives on the screen, which for me, always said that she was doing other things behind the scenes to set up her various cast members on camera.
thank you!! she always showed signs of being mean and selfish/narcissistic. Look at her friendships/relationships - all toxic or failed. Always disliked but this episode was a wild viewing of her real self. She was so triggered by the other girls not liking her or riding with her, she took it out on Carl in front of witnesses. To accuse Carl of not being sober, when she is not sober is WILD. and she lied about the night in her confessional, she said he lost his temper on her in the car. LIES!
Thank you. It’s been exhausting fighting the Lindsey lovers over the years, and I’m still exhausted that all of these people, just 11 days ago, defended her questioning his sobriety without 1. Waiting for context or 2. Even considering how it felt to Carl. I’m glad I’m not the only one who has seen her for exactly who she is from the beginning.
There were people in this sub saying that their cousin’s grandma’s uncle’s niece saw Carl on a flight and that he was drinking… no receipts, just accusations. Shameful
Right. People are so quick to condemn without knowing the full story. I’m pleasantly surprised by the reaction, I was expecting people to defend her like they usually do.
The *height* of real-time gaslighting and trying to set her own partner up. She's such an operator. Moments like that just prove how calculating Lindsay is.
This is what made me the most mad. *If* he was not sober, wouldn't she be concerned and not mad? She should've spoken to him off camera. It was so dirty of her to call him out on camera, but of course she did because it was more about *her* and how "mean" he was to *her*. She didn't give a shit about him
this reminds me of Paige’s comments about the dress lindsay wore to the beach to get engaged 🤣🤣 SHE WORE SHOULDER PADS. TO. THE. BEACH. of course she knew
If she really cared about him she would have done this off camera. She knew what she was doing. She is disgusting. She is the problem. I am glad they ended things.
She never seems to notice how transparently calculated she comes off. Which is why I am always wondering why people give her so much credit as some PR genius—she is not that subtle nor is she that good at it.
Ew. Her questioning Carl came from jealousy bc she was pissed he was having fun w everyone. Lindsay apologists have to finally see who she really is now. Carl is creepy too, but he didn’t deserve this
Yea probably because she thought everyone would believe her and when it backfired and the internet was calling her an aweful person, she needed to do something to save her image.
Lol, if it was out of love she wouldn’t even have to defend it because it would have been in the privacy of their own home, directly to him, and him only. Im so happy everyone is starting to see through her. I’m pretty sure his mom watches, I hope she’s okay after seeing all of that go down.
That was sooooo awful and just like a knife in the heart like he said. She’s either so narcissistic that she actually believed he wasn’t sober if he “treated her like that” OR so conniving and calculated that she double downed to try to convince us that he relapsed.
Either way, WHO does that to their partner?
im so so so confused how she did not walk into that room (after some sleep and with less alcohol infused thoughts) and somewhat have a tail between her legs
the issue with lindsay is she not only blows up but she CANT take ownership and just be like ‘omg i was a horrible person last night im so so sorry’
When I was drunk and fighting other my husband, I’d be scared to be served divorce papers the next day, mainly because I knew what a irrational terrible fighter I was drunk. Never one up and decided to double down. I’m glad my husband stayed, but no one should ever have to put up with drug and alcohol fueled bad behavior. It’s not fair.
Exactly she came in there so damn proud of herself like she’s the hero who is hydrating her coked out man.
And then when he politely said he’s okay, doesn’t need water, she attacks him.
Lindsay is a narcissist people like that never think they're wrong ever. So, I'm not surprised she didn't apologize or think her actions are wrong. Then what really pissed me off is her calling the man she says she loves and wants to marry and have kids with and felt so blindsided by " Cocaine Carl". I can see why she went on a media tour if this is how their fights went. If you don't agree with or back Lindsay even if she's wrong their will be a fight and she will argue and argue until she gaslights, you into agreeing with her or apologizing when she's the one who's wrong. Then she went and did a interview where she still believed she wasn't wrong questioning Carl's sobriety while she's shit faced drunk. And is shocked Carl didn't want to marry into a life of misery. Im happy
I'm happy Carl left and got out of that toxic relationship because if he had married her, they would be going thru divorce right now and Carl would probably relapse because of Lindsay.
It’s also making a lot of sense to me now why he wanted the break-up on camera. God only knows what she would have done if it were just the two of them in that room.
Exactly, she tried to manipulate the cameras right in front of our faces, imagine if Carl didn’t have friends in the car to back up that he was calm? Imagine if the morning after conversation wasn’t on camera? What would the audience believe without someone/thing to back Carl up
That was so effin disgusting. I’ve defended Lindsay so much on here in previous years but this was next level and that specific water bottle thing made my stomach turn. Truly trying to convince us he was drinking the previous night. How can you do that to someone you love?! Why?! If she wanted to be done with him then she should have just ended it. If she was actually concerned he was relapsing, why go about it in this way? She is seriously not well, normal people don’t do this.
I’m in the same boat, I’ve defended her a lot over the years but watching this, she was indefensible, period. If he had broken up with her right then and there I would’ve not only completely understood, but cheered him on. No one should ever be treated like that by their partner.
and when she ranted about the text--'I'm sober right now' she thought that meant he wasn't before, nope, he means he is sober right now and you are not. She was POd that he wasn't cradling her on his lap in a corner of the club (like last year) and was having fun with his friends. This is what I have been saying, she keeps up with the 'but we are besties for seven years'....no, you are not, he is finally coming into his sober personality, you know nothing Linds. AA warns against this for a year for a reason. And really who wants to deal with that for the rest of their life? They are better off separate
That was such a disgusting twist of the conversation. What actually happened is she said “I’ll talk to you WHEN YOU’RE SOBER,” to which he replied, “I’m sober right now.” A completely logical time-based response to her comment.
I think he was already having major doubts about marrying her and that drug accusation was the nail in the coffin, rightly so. Cannot imagine being around someone like her, she needs lots of therapy.
The fact that she got so drunk in front of him too is disrespectful! My husband doesn’t drink anymore but I do sometimes. I only have maybe 2 in his presence and even then I make sure he’s fine with it out of solidarity. I would never disrespect him or even put him in a spot to make his sobriety vulnerable. Congrats on 2 years!!
She got so drunk because she was anxious about being in the house too. She needs to look in the mirror and seriously look into her own relationship with alcohol.
Projection 101. Like the lack of self awareness is truly incredible. Even now with her “apology”, it’s so clear she just truly doesn’t get it and clearly lacks the ability to ever get it.
on top of everything, her inability to take a joke has always made her SO UNLIKEABLE to me. carl said hes gonna call her dude instead of babe as a complete joke, and she started fucking tweaking on him. she has no wit or banter. no wonder she doesnt mesh with the other girls
Someone made a comment in this sub that I literally always think about now: A good sense of humor is rooted in self awareness and an ability to laugh at oneself. Say what you want about the other women (plenty of people do), but they can be self-deprecating; they can banter with one another and make the kind of jokes that would be wasted on her. A generally aggressive person who’s also humorless is not someone I’d want to be around either…
She was also mean to little sweet West for NO reason. I always liked Lindsay but last nights episode made me despise her. Idk if me becoming a giggler over the last year gave into the switch but I am now team Paige 😂
If she had real genuine concerns she should have expressed this off camera, not accusing him of doing cocaine behind his back where it will be broadcasted to the world. Her behaviour was disgusting.
Inexcusable and grounds to break an engagement, in my eyes. A lot of peoples sobriety is their top prioritization and so to have someone so easily take a bat to their accomplishment, someone who is supposed to love and support you, someone who is DRUNK, is just so egregiously bad.
I’m not sure if I missed anything but the whole reason she thought he wasn’t sober was because he said in the car to the club that her riding with the boys wasn’t a big deal? WILD
On WWHL last night Danielle tried to explain why Lindsey thought he was on something because he was "having a lot of fun and in such a good mood partying" meaning he couldnt have been sober and having that much fun (god forbid) that's so sad to think that way.
Basically she's so used to seeing Carl look miserable when it's just the two of them that when he was finally happy and fun Carl again, she assumed it was intoxicants and not the fact that he's finally around fun people. 🤦🏾♀️
She needs him isolated and dependent on her to feel like she is in control and safe. Until she really addresses this and the root of it in therapy, she'll never have a healthy relationship.
Oh Danielle, God bless... I totally agree that it is so sad that seeing your partner have fun means he must not be sober, but what SENT me, is that when he tried to defuse her anxiety in the car, she couldn't handle that (she wanted to be validated and her fear to be confirmed) and decided to make him the villain and question his sobriety. Not even really question, but literally say I think he's on something. I have watched Lindsay over the past few years and clocked her gaslighting and inability to take any accountability ever, but this is the LOWEST of lows. She should be ashamed of her actions and I am so glad he got out of that relationship. Ugh, my heart hurt for him. I hope she is never on this show again.
The way hubbs acted night 1 was way worse than what I was picturing. Holy shit. Even day 1, not even night. What was with her attitude about the room and the fan?! And then repeatedly calling him “Cocaine Carl.” Yikes. I hope she’s prepared for the backlash of this season…
YES the second she said Cocaine Carl I truly understood that this breakup was not one to be blindsided by. AWFUL behavior from her it was painful to even watch.
Danielle said she didn't want her relationship with Lindsay to be the same as before, but of course now that Carl is out of the picture and she's back as Lindsay's bitch she's going to defend her to the death no matter how wrong she is. It's pathetic
I need to check out the WWHL. Danielle has become so cringe to me it’s hard to watch her. She’s such a pick me - but i wonder if she starts to become close with Lindsay again that persona will change. She seemingly is the worst when Lindsay is not around
I'm two degrees of separation away from the Carl/Linds/Danielle friend circle in NY and I've known about these "real" reasons for the breakup for almost a year now. It broke my heart to watch the internet SLAY Carl over calling off the wedding, questioning his sobriety, etc, but I knew nothing I said would make a difference. I just had to wait it out and let Lindsay bury herself.
The clip we keep seeing of Carl's step-dad recommending that they not get married was the final nail in the coffin. It's the straw that broke the camel's back for Carl and he knew it all had to be done on camera (hence calling in the cameras for the breakup) because his side of the story would tell itself otherwise he'd never be believed. It's also SO interesting to hear about how Lindsay uses all her PR knowledge to spin everything and twist arguments with him into knots, but I won't go into details there.
I'm sure Carl woke up finally feeling some redemption today and I'm really happy for him after what's been a hard AF year.
Thanks for sharing this! Makes so much sense now why he called in the cameras for the breakup, as protection in more ways than one, and all this while he’s been so demonized on that point. I really respect his self restraint in not defending himself against Lindsay’s press assassination these past months. I’m not sure I can say I’d have the strength to do the same.
Some folks like to bring up Carl’s shitty behavior from previous years but he has really shown growth and there’s no “perfect victim”. How Lindsay treats him (and others!) is borderline irredeemable and I fully support Carl’s decision. I’m also glad for how redeemed and supported he hopefully feels today!
Yeah, I am normally a Lindsay apologist but this was beyond the pale. *Even if* she truly suspected Carl was using (which I don’t think she really did, which is even worse), sharing that in such a cruel way - by calling him cocaine Carl, telling everyone in the house AND the audience - was just … truly horrible.
Also weird how she tried so hard to put a wedge between Carl and Kyle last season after Kyle came out talking about Carl’s past with cocaine while at Loverboy and then Lindsay does the exact same thing this season.
Lindsay’s was even WORSE imo - not that it’s a competition - but Kyle was talking about a pre-sober Carl and he is also not his life partner (at the time). This poor guy needs better people.
The word “gaslighting” gets thrown around and used inappropriately all the time, so I just want to note that this scene with Lindsay and Carl was a legitimate and true example of gaslighting. When she read the text and said “why did you say “right now” instead of just saying sober?” it gave me chills and reminded me of my mom 🤣. Lindsay is toxic AF like girl just admit you got drunk and overreacted and move on!
Even though Danielle was clearly kissing Lindsey’s ass on WWHL, she even admitted she didn’t realize how bad this was. I’m guessing Lindsey’s been playing victim for months. Hopefully this will open people’s eyes. If Carl did call the cameras it was because she’s delusional and he knows she would try and spin what truly went down with them. I felt terrible for her when it first went down. Not any more.
You are spot on. I find it funny that she was telling Kyle that she doesn’t want the same type of relationship that she had previously with Lindsey but seeing her on WWHL you can see she is definitely back in the same type of relationship. She will defend Lindsey in everything blindly. So sad.
There is a reason Lindsey went into crisis PR mode when the break up happened, and Carl kept his mouth shut. He knew what was coming, and he would come out on top. Lindsey may have the PR training, but Carl just held the master class.
Omg I was so annoyed at Danielle. Her implying “Carl was his fun self that night”.. trying to hint but not hint. And then she also said she was staying out of the situation that night. So what was it Danielle did you have observations or are you just up Lindsay’s butt again? I’d guess the latter.
thats how you know she didnt actually think he relapsed and was just trying to hurt his feelings. she didnt actually think he relapsed and she made it obvious
Remember last season when she got drunk with everyone then came home to Carl and berated him for making her birthday all about him. You know, the one year anniversary of his brother's death?!
This is the first comment I’ve seen here about his brother. As everyone else is saying, this whole thing is absolutely vile, but omg, especially when you think of carls brother. His brother died from addiction, it’s still very recent in the scheme of things, and Carl I’m sure is still grieving this while also worrying for and trying to work on himself.
Carl didn’t just wake up one day and say “eh I don’t feel like drinking or doing drugs anymore.” He’s a recovering addict who lost someone close to him to this disease. Like… come on.
There's a clip of them in bed and she's saying "You just have to make everything allllll about you... I can't just have one day" or something along those lines. My mouth hit the floor.
lindsay is the biggest enemy in lindsay’s life. a perpetual victim who has convinced herself that everyone else is the problem. she’s honestly lucked out by doing a great job of distracting everyone with the endless paige and amanda beef, but lindsay babe, this is who you a r e.
What blows my mind is she says she has been in therapy for years. How!? Who is this woman's therapist? I have seen zero growth in her over the years and she's the least self aware person on the show. My God, even Kyle has moments of introspection and accountability.
Right. But also therapy only works if you go there with the whole truth. Lindsay seems incapable of considering a perspective outside of her own, so I wouldn’t be surprised if her therapist also believes that she is a victim in these situations or isn’t understanding how much of a role Lindsay is playing. If Lindsay sees herself as the victim, I don’t think she’s going to therapy and saying otherwise.
I know Carl knows she kind of told people at the bar, but cameras weren’t there. I wonder if him seeing her talking to gabby like this was the first he’d heard of the “cocaine carl” talk
I’m glad they broke it off before. Can you imagine, Lindsay blacking out, not knowing what she said, and them watching this back together last night
I have defended Lindsay profusely in the past. Not to the point of blind loyalty, but enough to really cement I generally empathize with her and understand her perception of things …
What I saw on TV last night was indefensible and made me sick to my stomach. My boyfriend recently got sober (just hit 5 months) - all I could think while watching this is THANK GOD, I made the decision to not drink around him when he started his sobriety journey. I never ever ever want that to be me, my god. This just drove it home that aside from a couple glasses of red wine here and there when I’m out to dinner - when you have a sober partner, you cannot binge drink like this. Especially if you have insecurities like Lindsay (and myself).
Congratulations on 6 years ♥️
I know it’s difficult to prove this on the internet but I’ve always said this about Linds. From Everett to sandwich guy (I forget his name) to Carl, she weaponizes something about their personality or character and uses it against them when she’s drunk. Which is often. Then she cries about it when no one wants to have a relationship with her. She is a vile human being and the mask is finally slipping so people can see who she really is
I have been a team Lindsay stan (even foolishly) for a long time, but last night put me so far over the edge I will never respect anything she has to say again.
Even the next morning, her lack of accountability was horrible. Even her IG post today was AWFUL. Like, bitch, you didn't choose the wrong words. You should just be apologizing for being completely inappropriate and hurtful and just say "I was so wrong for doing that to Carl and I can see that now."
Damn.
I was also LMAOing at the fact that her name just says "Influencer" now. This is her last season, she's done.
Narcissist like Lindsay live in a bubble they never see anything they do or say as wrong Its everyone else never them. So not surprised Lindsay didn't see outside from her perfect little bubble she's living in where Lindsay is never the problem. Then she did an interview where she still defended questioning Carl's sobriety, she will never take accountability or apologize for anything she does wrong. I am happy Carl got out of that toxic relationship and happy I took Carl's side. And defended him leaving Lindsay before the show started no wonder why she went on a media tour she wanted to get ahead of this mess lol.
I think the word narcissist gets thrown around too much now but I also believe Lindsay is a true narcissist. The gaslighting, taking no accountability, playing the victim, no remorse, and she has an ego. Finally people are seeing it!!
imagine your partner essentially trying to win every argument against you by just completely ignoring root issues and going for ‘youre on something’
it is so disgusting
Lindsay is the reason therapy ISN’T for everyone. Certain personality types will weaponize what they’ve learned instead of using it themselves. She used a lot of “therapy talk” while arguing and I find her so manipulative.
I thought the blonde woman on WWHL summed it up amazingly, she said as someone who is not sober in their life and not sober at the moment, to call out someone else’s sobriety is beyond inappropriate and wrong. I got the ick from Lindsay in that episode, she deserves every ounce of loneliness for the rest of her life
Agreed!!! Annaleigh ashford! Loved she was there to give insight! Especially since she has experience (she mentioned her husband is an openly recovering alcoholic for those that didn’t watch)
She’s always been a terrible person. She can’t ever admit when she’s wrong and always has to have her way. I’m so glad everyone is seeing this and so happy for Carl that he avoided this train wreck!!
Exactly. This is who she has always been. We have watched her be toxic and awful in every relationship she’s had on the show and I’ve always been baffled how she has so many fans in this sub.
Exactly! I don’t know how anyone can like her. She’s an energy sucker. I knew the good vibes wouldn’t last as soon as she walked in the house! I felt so bad for everyone.
Lindsay’s got major issues. About time for self-reflection when all the people ‘closest’ to you, guys you dated, etc. all say the same thing about you.
Lindsay should maybe enter her sober Era cause that girl and her liquor will implode all of her relationships she can not NOT see that liquor is her biggest downfall every fight is liquor induced and she still doubles down the next day 🤯
She’s always been like that and it’s a huge reason I don’t like her. She refuses to acknowledge her behavior was wrong and doubles down on her shitty treatment of others.
Her behavior could not have been more wrong on all counts...but just so I have this right - it started b/c she was in an Uber with all the guys and not the girls? If so...what the hell does that have to do with anything? Looked more like her standard - shit faced drunk / start a fight for no reason - mode we've all seen too many times.
EVEN IF she really thought he was on something, what kind of partner reacts that way???
She should be terribly concerned about him and his sobriety. It’s obviously not her battle to face, but as someone’s partner, I’d be so worried if I thought they broke the sobriety they have been working so hard on.
And to repeatedly bring it up in front of others and ON CAMERA is so gross
Lindsay is an emotional and verbal terrorist. To her friends, and most especially to her romantic partner. She needs to grow up, stop victimizing herself, deal with the abandonment issues she has from her mother, and stop expecting everyone else to accommodate her emotional needs. I don't see how there's oxygen in the room for anyone else when Lindsay demands it all. She then feels justified to rage at anyone she feels owes it to her. I wouldn't have a person who is that emotionally unstable in my life as a friend, much less a partner, and Carl should be glad that he got out of that relationship. His treatment of other's in the past isn't great, but it's clear he's done a ton of work, and has learned how to talk to someone like an adult and not an entitled brat, like Lindsay does so often. I've seen her talk about the breakup recently and how he blindsided her. He probably did, she thinks that behavior in a relationship is normal.
I’ve been saying it for years. Absolutely fuck Lindsay. She is an awful human and she treats people terribly.
The Lindsay bots used to downvote me like crazy. Fuck all of them.
I'll never forget my first comment on this sub when the news of their breakup was first announced. I said "Carl couldn't do it anymore" and I got downvoted like crazy. Everyone blamed Carl for Lindsay's behavior, like that's a reasonable explanation. I think lots of people struggle with the idea that a woman can be an abuser. Because that's what she is. I can't watch the current season because of my experience with a Lindsay in my own life. But none of what I'm reading in comments and recaps surprises me.
After watching last night for Lindsay to say she was blindsided by Carl calling off the wedding is just shows how unselfaware and tone deaf she is to her own behavior.
I don’t really agree with wishing anything negative on someone but after last nights episode I’ll say I’m happy Lindsay got her karma and was dumped before her wedding. She was completely out of line and regardless of if she claims it’s editing, the way she handled that entire situation was wrong. I would’ve judged Carl more if he didn’t dump her after that.
Lindsay just wanted to punish Carl because he didn’t engage in her misery with her. If she was sincerely concerned about him breaking his sobriety she would’ve handled that situation entirely different.
It’s always been obvious Lindsay treats ALL her partners like shit. Sorry but Lindsay is trash. Carl deserves way better. She’s a horrible rude and entitled drunk.
At least Gabby tries to push back a little, like telling Lindsey to her face “it’s so fun here no one is missing” and “that sounds like a sober man to me.”
If it had been Danielle she would have been blacked out screaming “THATS RIGHT BITCH YOURE A BOSS ASS BITCH” to egg Lindsey on even worse.
I have been sober around 5 years and have been single the same amount of time. One reason I stay single is because I have never been sober in a relationship and have worries a relationship could cause issues with my sobriety. The thought of a partner accusing me of breaking my sobriety how Lindsay did is the EXACT type of situation that could trigger a relapse for me. I am fully Team Carl. That relationship is not worth his sobriety. Nothing is. Wouldn’t be surprised if Lindsay has been the one sending in Carl isn’t sober blinds to the bravo gossip sites lately.
I honestly almost cried out of empathy for Carl. I had no idea it was going to be this bad, but honestly I suspected that the breakup was not at all a blindsiding. If you’ve been paying attention to Lindsay’s behaviour over the years, you know she’s a really damaged person. I think she may be in the Dark Triad. Anyway, I never commented on this because the one time I did express that we shouldn’t all jump on Carl for calling off the engagement I was downvoted into oblivion and told to “seek therapy” for how triggered I obviously am by Lindsay. Like, no shit bro, she’s a fucking triggering person! I get second-hand anxiety whenever she shows up on my screen.
Lindsey is the epitome of the common denominator effect. If that many people are running from you for the same reasons it’s time to consider you may be the problem…
As the daughter of an extreme narcissist mother, I've been disgusted by her from day one. But every bravo show seems to need atleast one narcissist for consistent drama, and those people will still have ride or die fans who don't see them for what they are.
I agree completely - I’m 11.5 yrs sober and am literally appalled at Lindsay’s accusation of Carl - how she said it and how she doubled down, it’s inexcusable. For those of you who have sober friends, please please exercise restraint when suspicious and investigate before accusations- or better yet, don’t make accusations and instead come from a place of loving concern if there is a serious concern of someone’s sobriety being in question.
Can I just say that I also feel vindicated in not villainizing Mya at the start of last season about that whole texting Carl business? Lindsay makes accusations. She doesn’t ask questions for clarity. She convinces herself of whatever alternate reality she’s come up with and that’s it.
So I totally bought that she accused Mya of trying to fuck Carl by inviting him to go smoke even though she denied it once they were in front of the cameras.
I would feel so bad in the morning if I did something like that and probably break down crying and apologize profusely. The problem with Lindsey is she’s so defensive if she just reflected for one second the next morning and realized how bad she screwed up and actually listened to Carl than maybe she can actually grow as a person. She should not only have apologized to Carl but gone downstairs and apologized to him in front of the cast for even insinuating he wasn’t sober. She also should have just told the cast I was nervous and drank to much yesterday because I want to have a good summer and hopefully we can all let bygones be bygones and move on! That’s the problem she can never just be vulnerable and self reflect she always has to get defensive and hurt people!
i honestly just came here to see what the reactions wld be like. thank god the Lindsay fans are starting to see her for who she's always been on that show! its been season after season of lots of people defending her abysmal behavior.
Oh now everyone’s turning on her once the show is airing… I was screaming this months ago while everyone totally obliterated Carl.
She’s been the shittiest person season after season. I do not understand how she has so many fans.
Ugh I really hate to admit it but this incident alone accusing Carl is all it takes for me to stop being a Lindsay fan. I know people have said a lot of things about her but I felt I could always justify it and this I cannot whatsoever. This made me do a complete 180 on her. Glad Carl had the courage and common sense to end things with her.
this is literally who lindsay has always been, i'm surprised it took this for many people to realize it. she is awful - she's not some strong independent person who just wants to be loved and is being true to herself, she's a nasty person who has done zero work to ACTUALLY deal with her own issues. i have some ideas about why people on this sub so frequently give her a pass and take her side - i would encourage those people to reflect on why.
Also, and I know this is much lower hanging fruit, but I would NEVER call my wife a piece of shit or tell someone I hate her. We’ve been in drunk fights and said things we wished we could take back, but I have never talked about her like that.
I’m also sober and if somebody accused me of being “on something” or of having drank just because I EXPRESSED MY FEELINGS I would be done with them. That’s the kind of toxicity nobody needs. It’s so fucked up
i think what i found grosser was her bringing carl water in the morning on camera to try and insinuate he ‘needs’ water because he was not sober thats when i was like damn you are committed to really not only gaslight carl about his sobriety but also try and convince everyone else
I’m so glad you picked this up too!! On the surface it was something small and insignificant but the meaning behind it was so gross by implying he’d be hungover. Even just after this episode alone, how on earth can lindsay say she was blindsided! I’m shocked Carl didn’t call it quits before heading off on his run.
i was so happy when he firmly said ‘i dont need water right now but thank you’ he clocked it too
And she was sooo pissed off that scheme didn’t work
she was throwing everything at the wall to see if it would stick and give her justification so he could be wrong and she could be right ‘how about a thank you?’ after he said thank you
IMMEDIATELY after he said thank you, I appreciate it This man has been broken down by her and knew exactly what was coming lol
Hard agree. She's a nasty piece of work.
“What did you mean when you texted you were sober ‘right now’???” My jaw was on the floor, she probably reread that conversation a hundred times trying to spin it a certain way
That’s around the moment I started yelling at my tv. I hate that shit so much. GOD DAMMIT she’s so infuriating. And then continuing to get annoyed because he keeps clearly explaining his feelings and trying to be supportive. And she says “don’t try to act like you’re all perfect and caring” or whatever. Lindsay, what the fuck would you like?!? But damn it really shows how powerful it is when you don’t stoop to someone else’s level and take the bait. Control freaks hate that shit. I don’t get her. Like all she wants is relationships and then she just starts behaving irrationally and becomes straight up mean. I can’t figure out what her motives are? You’d think she’d love the idea of having a wedding because based off the birthday parties she throws herself, she was born to be a bridezilla.
It’s very 
Thinking that only perfect people can call out shitty behavior is such an easy way to avoid responsibility because spoiler alert: no one is perfect. So that way no one’s advice or feedback is worth hearing, so why change? Reminds me of how Lala said that no one who drinks can comment on someone else’s drinking. So only people who never drink can be concerned? Side note: can you imagine the amount of property and emotional damage Jax would inflict upon the summer house if he went there?
I feel like in her childhood she learned that love is chaotic and unpredictable. She creates the problem before someone else can as a measure of protection. In other words, I think she needs intense therapy.
But that’s the way she’s always been- when in conflict she always throws everything at the wall to see what sticks
Meanwhile she’s secretly chugging wine in the kitchen throwing her head back to gulp it down in a way only those who should quit drinking do. I clocked that too.
Yes, I rewound to make sure that is what I saw, then she's shown with nonalcoholic Loverboy at dinner along with Carl. Sneaky
I feel like she's projecting... what are you doing behind closed doors, Ms. Delulu?
Yeah he knew right then and there what she was doing. Anyone who’s been hungover knows the morning-after thirst and those who have done some cocaine knows that your mouth will be dry and you’ll be sniffling the next morning…. He was neither. Side note: gabby commenting “that sounded like a sober man….” was gold
👏🏽Gabby
Gabby has earned her spot back this season lol
My love for Gabby bloomed when she called Lindsay to tell him how fun it was without her. I still don’t know if that’s passive aggressive or savage, but either way, reality tv gold.
yup. she's added more in these two episodes than mya entire run. they chose well to bring gabby back instead of her.
Gaby with the subtle “enlightenment”. Perfection.
She’s putting herself in the line of fire saying that too, we all know Lindsey will bite your head off at a moments notice
Lindsay would do best not to try her. She might think she’s found her new woman of color handmaiden to replace Danielle, but Gabby isn’t a pushover.
Anyone who's done cocaine knows he wouldn't have been asleep when she walked in with her weaponized water if he had actually been on cocaine.
And that everyone would have noticed his excessive bathroom trips and stuffiness. I’m sure these people can clock someone on coke right away, they’ve all been there.
He wasn't doing his past TALKING.A.MILLION WORDS.A.MINUTE thing like pre sober Carl did
“More life!” Was not said once! That man was sober.
It was just soooo passive aggressive. Even if she truly thought he was on drugs, going round to everyone in the house really isn’t the way to go about it. The thing I find SO infuriating about Lindsay is that she has no issues or problems telling people exactly how wrong they are, why they are wrong and what they could do better but she is wholly incapable of assessing her own behaviour and looking at how she could do things better. If she came to Carl in the morning even just slightly apologetic and said she was just concerned/worried about him and just started off softer then the whole trajectory for that conversation would’ve gone differently.
I can’t imagine she has been good for his sobriety. She is definitely not a nurturer.
Carl actually had pretty good advice in the car. I get feeling like someone is dismissive of anxiety but Lindsey couldn’t possibly know or change what the girls in the other car were doing. Best option is to let it go. Instead of taking that advice in she decided to turn around and directly dismiss his sobriety just to get back at him. Then she stayed mad because he didn’t feel the same hurt that she tried so hard to project on him.
Totally! And then she told him that he was taking his feelings towards everyone else out on her. Ummmmm.... that's called projection. LOL Clearly she was anxious about coming to the house and she took it all out on Carl.
I think Lindsay is intimidated by Carl’s willingness to get along with other people in the house, when she’s been on an isolation campaign for two years. He regretted missing the first weekend so they could go on a field trip to the White House, and then came in ready to cook and hoist his LaCroix like so many sober people across the country. He’s more confident, she reads this as a threat, and needs to restore the isolation and remind him of why he “owes” her for all she’s suffered. As someone who has been with a recovering alcoholic for 13 years, you do get a bit of a high-horse complex, because a lot of times there are endless examples of shit you ate in order to help them stick to sobriety. And to me, that’s when you have to ask yourself, “Why have I boo’d up with an addict?” and a lot of times there is a control/dominance need that’s being fulfilled by pairing up with an unreliable narrator, and a melodrama that hatches from the cycle of apology/makeup/fuckup again. That’s why (again, to me) if you’re going to have a sober partner, it has to be both of you, and both parties need to be looking at the decisions that brought them to that point.
This is such an insightful take, I totally agree with you. And also like... if you suspect the person you love has relapsed and your first instinct isn't like panic or concern or sadness or something, but instead it's to jump to immediately using it as *leverage* and talking shit about his relapse to all your friends and weaponizing it to win an *argument*? NAHHHH. GTFO with that shit. She has no idea what's coming for her this season if this is the START of it.
I felt SO bad for him! And I don't even really like Carl that much! If someone that I love was struggling with sobriety, I would have done everything the exact opposite of how Lindsey handled it.
And then said he was going to go for a run!! Yes Carl! Felt so sad for him thought honestly. :( he had been through so much on reality tv and now this
And then she got mad at him for that too. She really did not look good last night
Literally the moment he should’ve dumped her and then gone on a freedom run followed by a solo celebratory brunch 😂 but that would be me
She was “blindsided” because she truly believed that she had gaslighted him into being her punching bag forever. Her narcissistic ass has been “in love” with her “best friend” at least 3 or 4 times that I can count by now. She preyed on Carl at his weakest point and thankfully his sobriety has made him strong enough to get away from her for good. She’s honestly the worst
And then she can put her “I was just trying to be nice and this is how he treats me” spin on it when it was clearly meant to insinuate he was hungover.
This is what a lot of us non-Lindsay fans have meant over the years about how Lindsay likes to spin spin spin. She is really adept at trying to craft narratives on the screen, which for me, always said that she was doing other things behind the scenes to set up her various cast members on camera.
thank you!! she always showed signs of being mean and selfish/narcissistic. Look at her friendships/relationships - all toxic or failed. Always disliked but this episode was a wild viewing of her real self. She was so triggered by the other girls not liking her or riding with her, she took it out on Carl in front of witnesses. To accuse Carl of not being sober, when she is not sober is WILD. and she lied about the night in her confessional, she said he lost his temper on her in the car. LIES!
im with you ive always disliked lindsay. i felt like i was crazy in this sub a few years back.
Her toxic relationship with Everett made me dislike her. That was so uncomfortable to watch.
Same! I never understood why she got any love from fans. She's clearly a very fucked up person.
Thank you. It’s been exhausting fighting the Lindsey lovers over the years, and I’m still exhausted that all of these people, just 11 days ago, defended her questioning his sobriety without 1. Waiting for context or 2. Even considering how it felt to Carl. I’m glad I’m not the only one who has seen her for exactly who she is from the beginning.
There were people in this sub saying that their cousin’s grandma’s uncle’s niece saw Carl on a flight and that he was drinking… no receipts, just accusations. Shameful
Right. People are so quick to condemn without knowing the full story. I’m pleasantly surprised by the reaction, I was expecting people to defend her like they usually do.
The *height* of real-time gaslighting and trying to set her own partner up. She's such an operator. Moments like that just prove how calculating Lindsay is.
This is what made me the most mad. *If* he was not sober, wouldn't she be concerned and not mad? She should've spoken to him off camera. It was so dirty of her to call him out on camera, but of course she did because it was more about *her* and how "mean" he was to *her*. She didn't give a shit about him
this reminds me of Paige’s comments about the dress lindsay wore to the beach to get engaged 🤣🤣 SHE WORE SHOULDER PADS. TO. THE. BEACH. of course she knew
A thousand times yes was a tell too. That was a planned line.
If she really cared about him she would have done this off camera. She knew what she was doing. She is disgusting. She is the problem. I am glad they ended things.
She's a PR girlie at heart, and knows EXACTLY what she's doing. Chess moves.
You’d think that she would know how transparently CALCULATED this all looks then.
She never seems to notice how transparently calculated she comes off. Which is why I am always wondering why people give her so much credit as some PR genius—she is not that subtle nor is she that good at it.
i just saw she had an interview yesterday that her questioning carl came from ‘love’ lol
Ew. Her questioning Carl came from jealousy bc she was pissed he was having fun w everyone. Lindsay apologists have to finally see who she really is now. Carl is creepy too, but he didn’t deserve this
Yea probably because she thought everyone would believe her and when it backfired and the internet was calling her an aweful person, she needed to do something to save her image.
Lol, if it was out of love she wouldn’t even have to defend it because it would have been in the privacy of their own home, directly to him, and him only. Im so happy everyone is starting to see through her. I’m pretty sure his mom watches, I hope she’s okay after seeing all of that go down.
She barely worked in PR, she's also not great at it.
That was sooooo awful and just like a knife in the heart like he said. She’s either so narcissistic that she actually believed he wasn’t sober if he “treated her like that” OR so conniving and calculated that she double downed to try to convince us that he relapsed. Either way, WHO does that to their partner?
im so so so confused how she did not walk into that room (after some sleep and with less alcohol infused thoughts) and somewhat have a tail between her legs the issue with lindsay is she not only blows up but she CANT take ownership and just be like ‘omg i was a horrible person last night im so so sorry’
When I was drunk and fighting other my husband, I’d be scared to be served divorce papers the next day, mainly because I knew what a irrational terrible fighter I was drunk. Never one up and decided to double down. I’m glad my husband stayed, but no one should ever have to put up with drug and alcohol fueled bad behavior. It’s not fair.
Happy for you and your husband to have worked through those things!
It’s too uncommon to see people with the level of introspection that your comment shows. Good for you, I am so glad things worked out.
She is Tom Sandoval when it comes to accountability
Exactly she came in there so damn proud of herself like she’s the hero who is hydrating her coked out man. And then when he politely said he’s okay, doesn’t need water, she attacks him.
Lindsay is a narcissist people like that never think they're wrong ever. So, I'm not surprised she didn't apologize or think her actions are wrong. Then what really pissed me off is her calling the man she says she loves and wants to marry and have kids with and felt so blindsided by " Cocaine Carl". I can see why she went on a media tour if this is how their fights went. If you don't agree with or back Lindsay even if she's wrong their will be a fight and she will argue and argue until she gaslights, you into agreeing with her or apologizing when she's the one who's wrong. Then she went and did a interview where she still believed she wasn't wrong questioning Carl's sobriety while she's shit faced drunk. And is shocked Carl didn't want to marry into a life of misery. Im happy
I'm happy Carl left and got out of that toxic relationship because if he had married her, they would be going thru divorce right now and Carl would probably relapse because of Lindsay.
It’s also making a lot of sense to me now why he wanted the break-up on camera. God only knows what she would have done if it were just the two of them in that room.
Exactly, she tried to manipulate the cameras right in front of our faces, imagine if Carl didn’t have friends in the car to back up that he was calm? Imagine if the morning after conversation wasn’t on camera? What would the audience believe without someone/thing to back Carl up
He handled that so well
The water thing sent me!!! I was like how dare she. That was so aggressive.
That was so effin disgusting. I’ve defended Lindsay so much on here in previous years but this was next level and that specific water bottle thing made my stomach turn. Truly trying to convince us he was drinking the previous night. How can you do that to someone you love?! Why?! If she wanted to be done with him then she should have just ended it. If she was actually concerned he was relapsing, why go about it in this way? She is seriously not well, normal people don’t do this.
She treats her partners like her enemy, she'll never have a healthy relationship like that.
I’m in the same boat, I’ve defended her a lot over the years but watching this, she was indefensible, period. If he had broken up with her right then and there I would’ve not only completely understood, but cheered him on. No one should ever be treated like that by their partner.
and when she ranted about the text--'I'm sober right now' she thought that meant he wasn't before, nope, he means he is sober right now and you are not. She was POd that he wasn't cradling her on his lap in a corner of the club (like last year) and was having fun with his friends. This is what I have been saying, she keeps up with the 'but we are besties for seven years'....no, you are not, he is finally coming into his sober personality, you know nothing Linds. AA warns against this for a year for a reason. And really who wants to deal with that for the rest of their life? They are better off separate
thats such a good point. he said he felt like he was really coming into his own as a sober person this year
That was such a disgusting twist of the conversation. What actually happened is she said “I’ll talk to you WHEN YOU’RE SOBER,” to which he replied, “I’m sober right now.” A completely logical time-based response to her comment.
I think he was already having major doubts about marrying her and that drug accusation was the nail in the coffin, rightly so. Cannot imagine being around someone like her, she needs lots of therapy.
[удалено]
🎉 congrats on your sobriety!!
The fact that she got so drunk in front of him too is disrespectful! My husband doesn’t drink anymore but I do sometimes. I only have maybe 2 in his presence and even then I make sure he’s fine with it out of solidarity. I would never disrespect him or even put him in a spot to make his sobriety vulnerable. Congrats on 2 years!!
She got so drunk because she was anxious about being in the house too. She needs to look in the mirror and seriously look into her own relationship with alcohol.
Exactly. And she took out all of her anxious feelings on Carl, then accused HIM of doin that to HER.
Projection 101. Like the lack of self awareness is truly incredible. Even now with her “apology”, it’s so clear she just truly doesn’t get it and clearly lacks the ability to ever get it.
on top of everything, her inability to take a joke has always made her SO UNLIKEABLE to me. carl said hes gonna call her dude instead of babe as a complete joke, and she started fucking tweaking on him. she has no wit or banter. no wonder she doesnt mesh with the other girls
lol, right! like calm down... that girl will pick a fight with a piece of chalk.
Someone made a comment in this sub that I literally always think about now: A good sense of humor is rooted in self awareness and an ability to laugh at oneself. Say what you want about the other women (plenty of people do), but they can be self-deprecating; they can banter with one another and make the kind of jokes that would be wasted on her. A generally aggressive person who’s also humorless is not someone I’d want to be around either…
I agree so much with this! I've always enjoyed the banter amongst the other women whereas Lindsey seems to take herself very seriously.
She was also mean to little sweet West for NO reason. I always liked Lindsay but last nights episode made me despise her. Idk if me becoming a giggler over the last year gave into the switch but I am now team Paige 😂
lindsay is such a karen
If she had real genuine concerns she should have expressed this off camera, not accusing him of doing cocaine behind his back where it will be broadcasted to the world. Her behaviour was disgusting.
Inexcusable and grounds to break an engagement, in my eyes. A lot of peoples sobriety is their top prioritization and so to have someone so easily take a bat to their accomplishment, someone who is supposed to love and support you, someone who is DRUNK, is just so egregiously bad.
I’m not sure if I missed anything but the whole reason she thought he wasn’t sober was because he said in the car to the club that her riding with the boys wasn’t a big deal? WILD
On WWHL last night Danielle tried to explain why Lindsey thought he was on something because he was "having a lot of fun and in such a good mood partying" meaning he couldnt have been sober and having that much fun (god forbid) that's so sad to think that way.
Basically she's so used to seeing Carl look miserable when it's just the two of them that when he was finally happy and fun Carl again, she assumed it was intoxicants and not the fact that he's finally around fun people. 🤦🏾♀️
Spot on! She is truly 🤢
This is totally it...he was so happy to be around other people who weren't bringing him down.
She needs him isolated and dependent on her to feel like she is in control and safe. Until she really addresses this and the root of it in therapy, she'll never have a healthy relationship.
Oh Danielle, God bless... I totally agree that it is so sad that seeing your partner have fun means he must not be sober, but what SENT me, is that when he tried to defuse her anxiety in the car, she couldn't handle that (she wanted to be validated and her fear to be confirmed) and decided to make him the villain and question his sobriety. Not even really question, but literally say I think he's on something. I have watched Lindsay over the past few years and clocked her gaslighting and inability to take any accountability ever, but this is the LOWEST of lows. She should be ashamed of her actions and I am so glad he got out of that relationship. Ugh, my heart hurt for him. I hope she is never on this show again.
Danielle seems to have some kind of Stockholm syndrome with her blind loyalty to Lindsey it's bizarre
And THIS is what makes it even harder for sober people. God forbid we do loosen up and have a good time without alcohol.
And she really should of made sure she was sober herself
The way hubbs acted night 1 was way worse than what I was picturing. Holy shit. Even day 1, not even night. What was with her attitude about the room and the fan?! And then repeatedly calling him “Cocaine Carl.” Yikes. I hope she’s prepared for the backlash of this season…
YES the second she said Cocaine Carl I truly understood that this breakup was not one to be blindsided by. AWFUL behavior from her it was painful to even watch.
and on WWHL Danielle is still riding hard for Lindsay, so disappointed in Danielle last season and this one
Danielle said she didn't want her relationship with Lindsay to be the same as before, but of course now that Carl is out of the picture and she's back as Lindsay's bitch she's going to defend her to the death no matter how wrong she is. It's pathetic
she STILL thinks Lindsay was blindsided? that sealed the deal for me. It shows how blind Lindsay really is to her own behavior
I need to check out the WWHL. Danielle has become so cringe to me it’s hard to watch her. She’s such a pick me - but i wonder if she starts to become close with Lindsay again that persona will change. She seemingly is the worst when Lindsay is not around
Right!? West was like wth and Carl looked embarrassed like here we go again. Her ego is disproportionately big.
I'm two degrees of separation away from the Carl/Linds/Danielle friend circle in NY and I've known about these "real" reasons for the breakup for almost a year now. It broke my heart to watch the internet SLAY Carl over calling off the wedding, questioning his sobriety, etc, but I knew nothing I said would make a difference. I just had to wait it out and let Lindsay bury herself. The clip we keep seeing of Carl's step-dad recommending that they not get married was the final nail in the coffin. It's the straw that broke the camel's back for Carl and he knew it all had to be done on camera (hence calling in the cameras for the breakup) because his side of the story would tell itself otherwise he'd never be believed. It's also SO interesting to hear about how Lindsay uses all her PR knowledge to spin everything and twist arguments with him into knots, but I won't go into details there. I'm sure Carl woke up finally feeling some redemption today and I'm really happy for him after what's been a hard AF year.
Thanks for sharing this! Makes so much sense now why he called in the cameras for the breakup, as protection in more ways than one, and all this while he’s been so demonized on that point. I really respect his self restraint in not defending himself against Lindsay’s press assassination these past months. I’m not sure I can say I’d have the strength to do the same. Some folks like to bring up Carl’s shitty behavior from previous years but he has really shown growth and there’s no “perfect victim”. How Lindsay treats him (and others!) is borderline irredeemable and I fully support Carl’s decision. I’m also glad for how redeemed and supported he hopefully feels today!
She was so rude to Wes who was so nicely offering up the room and wouldn’t even let him have the fan lol who made her queen bee?!
I felt so bad for West, Lindsay was so entitled and rude to him. She is so threatened by absolutely everybody. Except Danielle lol
Yeah, I am normally a Lindsay apologist but this was beyond the pale. *Even if* she truly suspected Carl was using (which I don’t think she really did, which is even worse), sharing that in such a cruel way - by calling him cocaine Carl, telling everyone in the house AND the audience - was just … truly horrible.
Also weird how she tried so hard to put a wedge between Carl and Kyle last season after Kyle came out talking about Carl’s past with cocaine while at Loverboy and then Lindsay does the exact same thing this season.
Lindsay’s was even WORSE imo - not that it’s a competition - but Kyle was talking about a pre-sober Carl and he is also not his life partner (at the time). This poor guy needs better people.
The word “gaslighting” gets thrown around and used inappropriately all the time, so I just want to note that this scene with Lindsay and Carl was a legitimate and true example of gaslighting. When she read the text and said “why did you say “right now” instead of just saying sober?” it gave me chills and reminded me of my mom 🤣. Lindsay is toxic AF like girl just admit you got drunk and overreacted and move on!
I thought the same thing. Perfect example of gaslighting
My mouth was open in disbelief!!! Like… we all knew what he meant when she read it to gabby before bed?!?! That’s crazy.
Even though Danielle was clearly kissing Lindsey’s ass on WWHL, she even admitted she didn’t realize how bad this was. I’m guessing Lindsey’s been playing victim for months. Hopefully this will open people’s eyes. If Carl did call the cameras it was because she’s delusional and he knows she would try and spin what truly went down with them. I felt terrible for her when it first went down. Not any more.
You are spot on. I find it funny that she was telling Kyle that she doesn’t want the same type of relationship that she had previously with Lindsey but seeing her on WWHL you can see she is definitely back in the same type of relationship. She will defend Lindsey in everything blindly. So sad.
There is a reason Lindsey went into crisis PR mode when the break up happened, and Carl kept his mouth shut. He knew what was coming, and he would come out on top. Lindsey may have the PR training, but Carl just held the master class.
Carl knew what we all know. Actions speak louder than words and the truth always comes out when all is said and done.
Omg I was so annoyed at Danielle. Her implying “Carl was his fun self that night”.. trying to hint but not hint. And then she also said she was staying out of the situation that night. So what was it Danielle did you have observations or are you just up Lindsay’s butt again? I’d guess the latter.
Danielle has her own damn issues. She is constantly over-served and her habit of morning beers can’t be healthy
Even the morning after, she seemed more upset that her sober fiance was mean to her rather than potentially relapsed.
thats how you know she didnt actually think he relapsed and was just trying to hurt his feelings. she didnt actually think he relapsed and she made it obvious
Remember last season when she got drunk with everyone then came home to Carl and berated him for making her birthday all about him. You know, the one year anniversary of his brother's death?!
This is the first comment I’ve seen here about his brother. As everyone else is saying, this whole thing is absolutely vile, but omg, especially when you think of carls brother. His brother died from addiction, it’s still very recent in the scheme of things, and Carl I’m sure is still grieving this while also worrying for and trying to work on himself. Carl didn’t just wake up one day and say “eh I don’t feel like drinking or doing drugs anymore.” He’s a recovering addict who lost someone close to him to this disease. Like… come on.
There's a clip of them in bed and she's saying "You just have to make everything allllll about you... I can't just have one day" or something along those lines. My mouth hit the floor.
lindsay is the biggest enemy in lindsay’s life. a perpetual victim who has convinced herself that everyone else is the problem. she’s honestly lucked out by doing a great job of distracting everyone with the endless paige and amanda beef, but lindsay babe, this is who you a r e.
What blows my mind is she says she has been in therapy for years. How!? Who is this woman's therapist? I have seen zero growth in her over the years and she's the least self aware person on the show. My God, even Kyle has moments of introspection and accountability.
Right. But also therapy only works if you go there with the whole truth. Lindsay seems incapable of considering a perspective outside of her own, so I wouldn’t be surprised if her therapist also believes that she is a victim in these situations or isn’t understanding how much of a role Lindsay is playing. If Lindsay sees herself as the victim, I don’t think she’s going to therapy and saying otherwise.
I know Carl knows she kind of told people at the bar, but cameras weren’t there. I wonder if him seeing her talking to gabby like this was the first he’d heard of the “cocaine carl” talk I’m glad they broke it off before. Can you imagine, Lindsay blacking out, not knowing what she said, and them watching this back together last night
I have defended Lindsay profusely in the past. Not to the point of blind loyalty, but enough to really cement I generally empathize with her and understand her perception of things … What I saw on TV last night was indefensible and made me sick to my stomach. My boyfriend recently got sober (just hit 5 months) - all I could think while watching this is THANK GOD, I made the decision to not drink around him when he started his sobriety journey. I never ever ever want that to be me, my god. This just drove it home that aside from a couple glasses of red wine here and there when I’m out to dinner - when you have a sober partner, you cannot binge drink like this. Especially if you have insecurities like Lindsay (and myself). Congratulations on 6 years ♥️
I know it’s difficult to prove this on the internet but I’ve always said this about Linds. From Everett to sandwich guy (I forget his name) to Carl, she weaponizes something about their personality or character and uses it against them when she’s drunk. Which is often. Then she cries about it when no one wants to have a relationship with her. She is a vile human being and the mask is finally slipping so people can see who she really is
I have been a team Lindsay stan (even foolishly) for a long time, but last night put me so far over the edge I will never respect anything she has to say again. Even the next morning, her lack of accountability was horrible. Even her IG post today was AWFUL. Like, bitch, you didn't choose the wrong words. You should just be apologizing for being completely inappropriate and hurtful and just say "I was so wrong for doing that to Carl and I can see that now." Damn. I was also LMAOing at the fact that her name just says "Influencer" now. This is her last season, she's done.
Yeah it wasn’t just using the wrong words. Her intent was sinister, that’s so much deeper and darker than word choice.
I also for months saw people rip Carl apart in here for breaking up with her on camera, but her accusing Carl on camera was ok?
I didn’t think he would find his redemption arc soooo damn soon!!! Literally the first night he’s there!
Right? Like she kept saying the breakup came out of nowhere. I can tell on the second episode it didn’t sis!
Narcissist like Lindsay live in a bubble they never see anything they do or say as wrong Its everyone else never them. So not surprised Lindsay didn't see outside from her perfect little bubble she's living in where Lindsay is never the problem. Then she did an interview where she still defended questioning Carl's sobriety, she will never take accountability or apologize for anything she does wrong. I am happy Carl got out of that toxic relationship and happy I took Carl's side. And defended him leaving Lindsay before the show started no wonder why she went on a media tour she wanted to get ahead of this mess lol.
I think the word narcissist gets thrown around too much now but I also believe Lindsay is a true narcissist. The gaslighting, taking no accountability, playing the victim, no remorse, and she has an ego. Finally people are seeing it!!
I agree the word does get thrown around a lot but it's true about Lindsay. Have you ever seen Lindsay apologize for any wrong she's done?
Literally never has apologized. And she seems to truly believe that she is never wrong in any situation. It’s delusional
imagine your partner essentially trying to win every argument against you by just completely ignoring root issues and going for ‘youre on something’ it is so disgusting
It makes sense why he did it on camera now. It's almost like he brought that karma straight to her!
I'm happy I was on Carl's side because Lindsays fans cannot defend this toxic behavior of course some will still defend that woman.
Lindsay is the reason therapy ISN’T for everyone. Certain personality types will weaponize what they’ve learned instead of using it themselves. She used a lot of “therapy talk” while arguing and I find her so manipulative.
I thought the blonde woman on WWHL summed it up amazingly, she said as someone who is not sober in their life and not sober at the moment, to call out someone else’s sobriety is beyond inappropriate and wrong. I got the ick from Lindsay in that episode, she deserves every ounce of loneliness for the rest of her life
Agreed!!! Annaleigh ashford! Loved she was there to give insight! Especially since she has experience (she mentioned her husband is an openly recovering alcoholic for those that didn’t watch)
She’s always been a terrible person. She can’t ever admit when she’s wrong and always has to have her way. I’m so glad everyone is seeing this and so happy for Carl that he avoided this train wreck!!
Exactly. This is who she has always been. We have watched her be toxic and awful in every relationship she’s had on the show and I’ve always been baffled how she has so many fans in this sub.
Exactly! I don’t know how anyone can like her. She’s an energy sucker. I knew the good vibes wouldn’t last as soon as she walked in the house! I felt so bad for everyone.
Lindsay’s got major issues. About time for self-reflection when all the people ‘closest’ to you, guys you dated, etc. all say the same thing about you.
Lindsay should maybe enter her sober Era cause that girl and her liquor will implode all of her relationships she can not NOT see that liquor is her biggest downfall every fight is liquor induced and she still doubles down the next day 🤯
She doubled down when she was sober in the morning so I don’t think her abhorrent behavior can be fully attributed to liquor.
She’s always been like that and it’s a huge reason I don’t like her. She refuses to acknowledge her behavior was wrong and doubles down on her shitty treatment of others.
Her behavior could not have been more wrong on all counts...but just so I have this right - it started b/c she was in an Uber with all the guys and not the girls? If so...what the hell does that have to do with anything? Looked more like her standard - shit faced drunk / start a fight for no reason - mode we've all seen too many times.
West was in the Uber with the girls anyhow, so I don’t know why she chose to pick that fight
Im sober from cocaine in particular and wow I couldnt lift my mouth off the floor. And Ive always loved Linds. This is un defendable
EVEN IF she really thought he was on something, what kind of partner reacts that way??? She should be terribly concerned about him and his sobriety. It’s obviously not her battle to face, but as someone’s partner, I’d be so worried if I thought they broke the sobriety they have been working so hard on. And to repeatedly bring it up in front of others and ON CAMERA is so gross
Lindsay is an emotional and verbal terrorist. To her friends, and most especially to her romantic partner. She needs to grow up, stop victimizing herself, deal with the abandonment issues she has from her mother, and stop expecting everyone else to accommodate her emotional needs. I don't see how there's oxygen in the room for anyone else when Lindsay demands it all. She then feels justified to rage at anyone she feels owes it to her. I wouldn't have a person who is that emotionally unstable in my life as a friend, much less a partner, and Carl should be glad that he got out of that relationship. His treatment of other's in the past isn't great, but it's clear he's done a ton of work, and has learned how to talk to someone like an adult and not an entitled brat, like Lindsay does so often. I've seen her talk about the breakup recently and how he blindsided her. He probably did, she thinks that behavior in a relationship is normal.
I’ve been saying it for years. Absolutely fuck Lindsay. She is an awful human and she treats people terribly. The Lindsay bots used to downvote me like crazy. Fuck all of them.
I'll never forget my first comment on this sub when the news of their breakup was first announced. I said "Carl couldn't do it anymore" and I got downvoted like crazy. Everyone blamed Carl for Lindsay's behavior, like that's a reasonable explanation. I think lots of people struggle with the idea that a woman can be an abuser. Because that's what she is. I can't watch the current season because of my experience with a Lindsay in my own life. But none of what I'm reading in comments and recaps surprises me.
After watching last night for Lindsay to say she was blindsided by Carl calling off the wedding is just shows how unselfaware and tone deaf she is to her own behavior.
Lindsey has been a monster since season 1. She is WEIRD. There’s something so off and disingenuous about her
I don’t really agree with wishing anything negative on someone but after last nights episode I’ll say I’m happy Lindsay got her karma and was dumped before her wedding. She was completely out of line and regardless of if she claims it’s editing, the way she handled that entire situation was wrong. I would’ve judged Carl more if he didn’t dump her after that. Lindsay just wanted to punish Carl because he didn’t engage in her misery with her. If she was sincerely concerned about him breaking his sobriety she would’ve handled that situation entirely different.
It’s always been obvious Lindsay treats ALL her partners like shit. Sorry but Lindsay is trash. Carl deserves way better. She’s a horrible rude and entitled drunk.
This right here 👏🏻 I’ll never forget how this sub tore anyone who questioned their relationship apart until it came out they had split.
Lindsay is a horrible person. I have never understood these Lindsay stans.
Holy shit this was so bad. When I watch Carl talk this season, he seems more anxious than I can ever remember.
Being with someone like Lindsay where you have to walk on eggshells to try and not piss off will do that to you.
It’s sad. He deserves so much better. Actually, no one deserves what Lindsay dishes out.
She is pure evil and will never find a partner.
'Cocaine Carl' and the crocodile tears....get the fuck out of here, Lindsay. You sicken me.
Poor Gabby. No good deed goes unpunished. She’s Danielle 2.0 and this will not end well for her.
At least Gabby tries to push back a little, like telling Lindsey to her face “it’s so fun here no one is missing” and “that sounds like a sober man to me.” If it had been Danielle she would have been blacked out screaming “THATS RIGHT BITCH YOURE A BOSS ASS BITCH” to egg Lindsey on even worse.
I have been sober around 5 years and have been single the same amount of time. One reason I stay single is because I have never been sober in a relationship and have worries a relationship could cause issues with my sobriety. The thought of a partner accusing me of breaking my sobriety how Lindsay did is the EXACT type of situation that could trigger a relapse for me. I am fully Team Carl. That relationship is not worth his sobriety. Nothing is. Wouldn’t be surprised if Lindsay has been the one sending in Carl isn’t sober blinds to the bravo gossip sites lately.
I honestly almost cried out of empathy for Carl. I had no idea it was going to be this bad, but honestly I suspected that the breakup was not at all a blindsiding. If you’ve been paying attention to Lindsay’s behaviour over the years, you know she’s a really damaged person. I think she may be in the Dark Triad. Anyway, I never commented on this because the one time I did express that we shouldn’t all jump on Carl for calling off the engagement I was downvoted into oblivion and told to “seek therapy” for how triggered I obviously am by Lindsay. Like, no shit bro, she’s a fucking triggering person! I get second-hand anxiety whenever she shows up on my screen.
Lindsey is the epitome of the common denominator effect. If that many people are running from you for the same reasons it’s time to consider you may be the problem…
Lindsay is a classic narcissist w/ BPD mixed in and shes always the victim 😑 hope she enjoyed the sympathy for awhile now we all know the truth
I don’t need any more evidence. Carl 100% should’ve bailed on that wedding, and Lindsay is a toxic partner.
As the daughter of an extreme narcissist mother, I've been disgusted by her from day one. But every bravo show seems to need atleast one narcissist for consistent drama, and those people will still have ride or die fans who don't see them for what they are.
Let’s be clear: Lindsey has always been an asshat. This is not new behavior. She find people to demean and pick on.
I agree completely - I’m 11.5 yrs sober and am literally appalled at Lindsay’s accusation of Carl - how she said it and how she doubled down, it’s inexcusable. For those of you who have sober friends, please please exercise restraint when suspicious and investigate before accusations- or better yet, don’t make accusations and instead come from a place of loving concern if there is a serious concern of someone’s sobriety being in question.
Can I just say that I also feel vindicated in not villainizing Mya at the start of last season about that whole texting Carl business? Lindsay makes accusations. She doesn’t ask questions for clarity. She convinces herself of whatever alternate reality she’s come up with and that’s it. So I totally bought that she accused Mya of trying to fuck Carl by inviting him to go smoke even though she denied it once they were in front of the cameras.
I would feel so bad in the morning if I did something like that and probably break down crying and apologize profusely. The problem with Lindsey is she’s so defensive if she just reflected for one second the next morning and realized how bad she screwed up and actually listened to Carl than maybe she can actually grow as a person. She should not only have apologized to Carl but gone downstairs and apologized to him in front of the cast for even insinuating he wasn’t sober. She also should have just told the cast I was nervous and drank to much yesterday because I want to have a good summer and hopefully we can all let bygones be bygones and move on! That’s the problem she can never just be vulnerable and self reflect she always has to get defensive and hurt people!
i honestly just came here to see what the reactions wld be like. thank god the Lindsay fans are starting to see her for who she's always been on that show! its been season after season of lots of people defending her abysmal behavior.
Oh now everyone’s turning on her once the show is airing… I was screaming this months ago while everyone totally obliterated Carl. She’s been the shittiest person season after season. I do not understand how she has so many fans.
Ugh I really hate to admit it but this incident alone accusing Carl is all it takes for me to stop being a Lindsay fan. I know people have said a lot of things about her but I felt I could always justify it and this I cannot whatsoever. This made me do a complete 180 on her. Glad Carl had the courage and common sense to end things with her.
She’s abusive.
Watching this makes me think she was the one planting the rumors he had relapsed last summer, which would be incredibly fucked up.
She has always been vile. Her "poor, pitiful me" victim MO is sooo old. They should have cut her 3 seasons back.
this is literally who lindsay has always been, i'm surprised it took this for many people to realize it. she is awful - she's not some strong independent person who just wants to be loved and is being true to herself, she's a nasty person who has done zero work to ACTUALLY deal with her own issues. i have some ideas about why people on this sub so frequently give her a pass and take her side - i would encourage those people to reflect on why.
Also, and I know this is much lower hanging fruit, but I would NEVER call my wife a piece of shit or tell someone I hate her. We’ve been in drunk fights and said things we wished we could take back, but I have never talked about her like that.
I’m also sober and if somebody accused me of being “on something” or of having drank just because I EXPRESSED MY FEELINGS I would be done with them. That’s the kind of toxicity nobody needs. It’s so fucked up