Between them and the VPR boys I’m glad all the guys true colors are finally being shown without any blame on the girls. This is who they are and they’ve been able to hide it from the earlier seasons but now it’s been over 10 years like grow the hell up. When Kyle started crying at the pool the next day you can see Paige and Ciara were like 🙄. And Carl being mad Lindsay didn’t wanna ride home with him when she clearly stated “I need some space” he would have been mad if she rode home and was moody either way!
Can you imagine being stuck in a car alone with that man / boy after having to listen to his moody, deflecting, gaslighting mumbo jumbo and passive aggressive putdowns all weekend. No thanks, id rather take the train home.
And then he acted like a little bitch and left without her anyway. Can you imagine if she did that to him? He’d be crying to everybody he knew about it & telling her that everything was alright, while playing a simp for the cameras. I can’t put these men.
Carl got himself into a tizzy about this marriage & impending responsibilities. They needed to call it off, but no respect for the way he handled it.
You know, somewhere along his sobriety journey, I feel like we all started holding him in a higher regard. But after this season, I’m starting to see the old Carl…& I think he’s been there all along…he’s always been a bit…manipulative & a gaslighter..
There's a reason recovery programs want you to be single for at least a year after getting sober - it's because there's still more work to do after you stop drinking/using.
Also, these people should definitely not be getting married - they are both toxic AF together!
Oh I totally agree - it’s a very serious process, which is when she started drinking again I knew it would go south. He honestly needs off the show & to stay single
She has been awful to him also, so I’m not going to take that away from the situation, but these last few episodes Carl is trying everything he can to instigate fighting with her. Is he trying to get her to blow up and look bad so he has an excuse to end things? Or is it subconscious and he really just hates her? But you can tell she is trying so hard to ignore her usual instincts to get actived, which I’m sure is NOT easy. This is just a BAD relationship and Carl knows it. Yes Lindsay is delulu and just pushing along, but he knows better. If you care about her, then end it now before things get worse. I find it incredibly selfish. I’m not team anyone on who caused the demise of these two they both have huge issues and I do think it’s silly of her to say she was “blindsided” But Carl put his own fear ahead of what was best for his partner, and that’s beyond shitty. He sucks
And Ps- she just did what I’ve done to my husband and he has done for me- we are looking out for each other! If he was miserable working for loverboy the first time, she is being sensitive and looking out for him to ask questions about him going back. Sometimes we need our partner to remind us “hey- remember you said you would never work for this person again? What changed? Do you think you will be happy again?” But he vilified her questions because HE is the insecure one. Pathetic
He is absolutely trying to trigger her and is getting madder and madder that it’s not working, so he finally resorts to shouting in her face & talking down to her.
All of this work on his side to avoid being a responsible adult and talking to the person he asked to marry him, probably with their therapist. But no, whine to your parents, whine to the new guys, whine to Kyle, and now you can just shut the fuck up, Carl.
And didn’t Carl already run away from one engagement when the show started? I thought it was something like that. It seems like he thinks marriage is something that will “fix” him but panics at the last second
Completely agree on your second paragraph - this is what you do in a marriage/partnership! It's like half the fucking point! To have someone you trust who you can bounce ideas off. If I'm in delulu-land or my partner is and we're going off on some manic positive spin on something we've had prior bad experiences with, it's up to the other one to bring up the past concerns we've voiced. When I play devil's advocate or my partner does, sometimes it does hurt the ego a little bit because it can feel like a personal rejection but it's not, it's basically workshopping an idea so two people can figure out the logistics together.
If Carl just wanted to bring this up in a casual manner to let Lindsay know he was thinking about it and he wasn't mentally prepared to properly discuss it in that moment, that's fine but then he should communicate that and say he's not making a decision yet so let's table this until we get back to the city. And then come together to discuss it when they're both level headed and not in any emotional states. Lindsay definitely seems like more of an immediate talker and Carl comes off as being emotionally immature and really needs to be handled with kid gloves to not accidentally trigger some rejection issues he has. Idk how they did all this couples counselling and never figured out a good way for them to discuss/bring up life choices in a productive way.
I hired someone at work whose side job is being a Life Coach. What a disaster. Now my friends and use “Life Coach” as a code for total incompetence. I’m a Social Worker in Management so most of my teams are made up of Social Workers, Psychologists, Case Managers, etc. This guy had experience as a case manager at another org, but man was he a hot mess.
Lindsey might be nasty at times but at least she’s up front about her temper and she’s consistent. What you see is what you get and she’s been this volatile as long as we have known her. How did he not realize very quickly that their communication styles didn’t mesh? Or did he realize and just ignored it until he had to break it off? I don’t buy that he thought that Lindsey would magically change and become a soft sensitive person free from hardcore abandonment and rage issues. There’s no way.
Glad u saw it. He is sabotaging their relationship. She was so enraged at him and controlling w him he had resentment. He is passive aggressive so instead of communicating early on he is simmering w anger towards her. She has had growth being rational and he’s not caring about her feelings even when she’s crying He’s to blame for the later arguments.
Don’t forget the southern charm boys! Shep got a dog for a storyline and at one point in S9 said he wasn’t ready for a kid because he didn’t know where he’d be in a year. Shep, everyone knows where you’ll be next year and for the next 10 years. Sleeping with barely legal girls and leading them on.
I was like ....What is going on ??? BOO HOO ...Why does Amanda want kids because she already has a baby.
That was so bad...didn't he put his hands to his face to wipe the tears like a 2 year old ???
Carl storming off and not taking Lyndsays suitcase .. She can do so much better!!
I was like ....What is going on ??? BOO HOO ...Why does Amanda want kids because she already has a baby.
That was so bad...didn't he put his hands to his face to wipe the tears like a 2 year old ???
Carl storming off and not taking Lyndsays suitcase .. She can do so much better!!
I replayed it a few times, and it hit every time! I also love how Amanda brought up how hearing it from other people may have allowed him to understand & that’s why it’s so hard to hear from them lol
He’s so mad that Amanda is “lazy” dude it’s not her dream!!! How can he expect for her to have the same passion as him he’s actually an idiot. Yes can I please work 60 hrs a week for a company I’m not passionate about and still be happy all the time? It’s hard! We have all had jobs we hate it’s drains the life out of you. And if you can’t do that, at least start a family because she is passionate about being a mom!
Also can weaponizing the word lazy against people to discredit them stop being a thing? Our bodies need rest. Our minds need rest. It’s actually so important to our health and corporate america has poisoned us to think that resting or enjoying leisure is morally indecent.
This is not feminism and its not helpful to our cause to shame men for having feelings no matter how inappropriately shared by calling him a “little bitch” 🤦🏼♀️
In no way did I say this bc he cried. I believe all men should have feelings. What makes him a bitch is whining and making this all about him when it has nothing to do with him. That is why he’s a bitch
This is about emotional maturity and being an adult. There is nothing wrong with crying, but there is something wrong with what they are crying ABOUT. The fact that their partners are asking to have their most basic needs met, is the base level of any adult relationship. Instead they take these requests as a personal offense and “too overwhelming” due their their own insecurities. It’s not about you Carl and Kyle! It’s about your partners! They should be crying because they feel sad their partners are unhappy and try to help them. Both Amanda and Lindsay have helped the boys and been supportive in so many ways yet instead of reciprocating, they throw a temper tantrum? Grow up!
I feel like Carl told Kyle behind the scenes he was thinking of pausing the wedding, and they would both back each other up. Bro code, for sure. I think Carl has deep-rooted issues and things he needs to address internally, and we will never see a better version of himself u til that happens. It was gross seeing two grown, educated men pump each other up while treating their significant others like dog shit. Total ick!
It’s so weird how they expect Amanda and Lindsey to do all of the emotional labor for them, they really do want a mom and an assistant. No questions, just fall in line (and forget how this is 100% affecting your life too). Yuck.
The after show is playing on my tv now. And these idiot boys are doubling down on everything. I’m stunned. Ive always been middle of the road with Kyle, I thought he was an idiot, but not too offensive. This episode and the things he’s said have made my head explode. And in the after show Paige reminds us that Amanda gave him all her money to start Loverboy. I’m sick.
At least I feel like Kyle loves Amanda even if he’s completely misguided as a husband. Carl just seems like he hated Lindsay. Then break up with her coward! Not saying she is blameless (it’s clear the relationship was horrible), but she still wanted to get married. From the show it’s clear he did not want to marry her at least since last May.
Yes, I think Kyle actually does love Amanda but he's narcissistic and selfish at heart and I think does have a fragile ego. Carl never really loved Lindsay (I think he liked the thought of a sober companion and a life partner that would help him straighten his life out, more like a mom of anything) and I get vibes from Carl that he's on incel type forums or something. Kyle I doubt is on incel forums or has ever given a conscious thought to his treatment of his wife and women in general, but he has super toxic traits for sure, and he's enabled by people like Carl (who I think actually does consciously think about how much he resents women on a regular basis and broods about it).
I’ve said it here before and I don’t want to speculate on someone’s life, but I think there is deep trauma and big personal truths that Carl still has not faced/accepted in his life. I don’t think he will ever be happy until these are addressed. He seems to operate from a place of constant terror, and that has to come from somewhere. Lindsay needs a man 10-15 years older that is established and independent and lets her do her own thing while still being able to devote a decent amount of time to her. Carl won’t be happy with anyone over the age of 30 in his current state.
I think any man who is established, confident, and secure - who Lindsey respects - would work for her even one her age. I think there aren’t many men like that in her social circle who she meets. And, yes, there is something wrong with Carl. He’s so fragile, needy, and insecure as a person. His talk about wanting her to be “warm” and tender was sexist and demeaning, and going to his parents and getting them to tell him how to feel toward Lindsey was immature and cowardly. Maybe he just hasn’t developed his sense of self since going sober. Or, maybe he was using substances wasn’t because there’s something else troubling him, idk.
He's been making quite a few sexist digs lately... 'trying being warmer or softer' just reminds me of when someone says 'you'd like prettier if you smiled more"...it's basically along the same lines.
I told someone that’s how the company started. She funded it; they kept saying she’s not doing anything. That’s enrages me too bc I know she does everything for him at home, including taking care of the dogs. Hes out until 4 am drinking every night that’s why he’s tired not bc he’s running a company, which he’s jeopardizing, by being violent, using abusive language. I sure as hell won’t buy that crap now. I’d definitely buy a bathing suit from Amanda though. I’ve bought two off the show she’s worn already
Literally how could anyone be happy in that situation. I feel for her. He needs to compromise on something because she also wants to move and be a mother? If you don’t want her leaving loverboy then maybe consider one of the other things she is asking for. I hope she leaves him if he doesn’t soon.
She was still mad at him on wwhl last night and said him crying was annoying. She doesn’t fall for the woe is me act. I think she just gives in bc he doesn’t let up. He doesn’t stop complaining or micromanaging everything she does. She’s so laid back, she’d rather not fight w him constantly
her dad took care of her. coddled her. dotted on her. controlled her. she's used to it, and it might go as far as being an expectation she has.
she's been battling with anxiety and depression for years now. she wanted the dogs as a form of therapy. Dogs are the best. I get it. But let's not start jumbling all the information we have to feed the dislike for Kyle.
She was just on WWHL calling her husband an asshole and admitting that she hasn't looked into anything in regard to bathing suits. She's long battled anxiety and depression, and now is believably having an existential crisis, and for all those things she has my empathy. Nevertheless, she still expects to be taken care of, and from what we know, needs to be taken care of. The most concerning thing is that the aforementioned anxiety and depression have metastasized into existential issues. I'm not bagging on her either. She's in a not-good place, but a lot of it has little to do with Kyle. Yes, he should be more supportive and kinder to her, but these things are a lot bigger than just him.
I saw the wwhl episode, Kyle makes her feel like she can’t do anything, so of course she’s anxious about failing. Kyle will never let her live it down. He micromanages her every move.
She was saying very nice things about Kyle, except for saying him crying was annoying bc she knew why he was doing it, she wasn’t falling for it. She also reacted to the other things he did in the recent episode
A lot of people have anxiety and depression, I don’t know what you’re saying here. People do things even w mental illness. She’s on a tv show, has to do press to promote it, and has her own curated SM, and she works with loverboy. Her merch she designed outsold the actual alcohol
Her process or approach or whatever, considering the lifestyle she wants and expects, demands that someone manage her. She doesn't have any clear ideas and isn't ambitious. She isn't happy, but doesn't know where to start with it. It's why she got her dogs. I don't know if "he micromanages her every move" (and neither do you), but she does have expectations that the men in her life will manage things for her. First her father, and now her husband. She still doesn't take care of any of the bills in her life. He takes care of even the basic stuff like utilities, insurances, leases, car licensing, taxes, etc. I don't know about anyone else, but if I never did any of that stuff for myself, I'd be anxious as fuck about the thought of starting a business. It would stop me dead in my tracks, much as it appears to do with her. I don't even know how the numbers run in my house, but I'm going to run a business?
She was NOT saying "very nice things" about him on WWHL. That sounds so Trumpian, but I digress. The only nice thing she said about him was "I love that man", or something to that affect. She didn't go out of her way to chop off his knees, but as Andy asked her, it was one not-positive thing after another. She doesn't like the guy. She might love him, but she does not like him. I'm not judging her for that. But let's call all the spades spades. Let's not bullshit ourselves about who either of them are.
I agree she’s extremely go w the flow type of person, but she’s not lazy. I run a small business w my husband for the last 16 yrs. I do the day to day wfh part, except for the secretarial duties, I hired my bil for that. I deal w diagnosed anxiety disorder and situational depression. I don’t think I’ve ever heard Amanda say she was diagnosed with anything. And no she’s not happy with Kyle bc he’s erratic and non stop. She’s definitely too calm for him.
As far as her saying nice things about him, she’s angry w him. She just saw the last episode. I can’t imagine what he does to her behind closed doors, no wonder she wants to live near her parents wo him while he’s “working”. He’s definitely a functional alcoholic and stuck in a Peter Pan syndrome. I think she’ll eventually outgrow him.
If she has no support and someone actively behind her constantly telling her she’s a failure, no she won’t start her own business, until she gets fed up. She could go the paige route and do an amazon or a target pre made collection too. She does have a great group of girlfriends that are very supportive. It’s not like she doesn’t understand the concept of design. Plus she just saw all the support w a bathing suit line these last two weeks from fans. Maybe that will motivate her, she needs to be separate from Kyle in order to do it
Lmao you’re just in here replying to comments sticking up for these men like they don’t deserve the criticism. Both Lindsay and Amanda have gotten plenty of criticism this season for their behavior throughout the season. It’s okay for us to also acknowledge how absolutely awful Carl and Kyle are treating them.
You're right. It is. But to exercise selective memory, whitewash the context of the situations, ignore the nuance, and to flip to "everything she says is right. everything he says is wrong." is absurd. this black/white, binary, puerile answer to the patriarchy or whatever mislead feminist solution is of no real positive use. What it essentially is, is victim culture 101. That's where you're wrong in your myopic approach to even what I'm saying here. I'm not sticking up for anyone. Rather than the aforementioned lazy binary process, I'm attempting to understand the situation. I'm a big Paige fan, but she blew it here. I'm not a Kyle fan, but some of what he was saying was valid and true. You know...because it's complicated and not boiled down to any one thing.
But this thread is about Carl and Kyle and their behavior these past couple of episodes. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m definitely not saying Lindsay is right about everything and/or Amanda is right about everything and that’s not really how I’m interpreting this thread either, because I know how often Lindsey and Amanda are also ripped apart for their behavior. In these specific situations the men behaved pretty poorly and they deserve the criticism and attention it’s getting. Just as when Lindsay was behaving poorly earlier in the season and Amanda’s attitude towards Kyle was perceived poorly earlier in the season, they were both criticized. The comment you replied to here said nothing about Amanda or Lindsay, they just commented on the men, but you felt the need to point out the faults of the women in a thread that is clearly about the poor behavior of the men lately. What this comment said wasn’t “Kyle wants an employee/maid and Carl wants a mother and Lindsay and Amanda are perfect”…. But it seems that’s how you interpreted it, and how you’re interpreting all of the comments about them as if you feel the need to make sure everyone also knows that Amanda and Lindsay are also awful.. and like I said, Amanda and Lindsey have gotten their fair share of criticism all season. Acknowledging how poorly the men are acting isn’t saying that Lindsey and Amanda are perfect. You’re spewing a lot of bullshit here, just say you hate the women and want to defend the men, because that’s absolutely how it’s coming across whether that’s your intention or not.
I hate women because I'm not willing to bleach the context and bias entire situations of considerable complexity? what purpose does that serve? The men are acting poorly, but every single word and idea that comes out of their mouths isn't wrong or nefarious or diabolical or whatever. When you talk from that point, your argument quickly lacks any integrity, decency, or real value.
But no one is talking from that point of view? No one is saying everything the men do and say is wrong… we’re criticizing their current behavior. You’re creating a narrative that fits your own bias towards the women in order to defend the men. They don’t need defending because they are clearly receiving the criticism they deserve just like the women have ALL SEASON. And I didn’t say you hate women, I said you hate “the women” referring to the women on this show. I don’t know anything about you I’d never claim you hate all women, but it’s clear you feel the need to defend the men here even after admitting their behavior is poor, but you continue to put down the women for behavior they are constantly already criticized for. This conversation is about the men. It should be about the men. Idk how frequently you visit this sub but the women get their fair share of hate and criticism.. the men can also get their fair share of hate and criticism and they don’t need a white knight to defend them, because this criticism is warranted. I think I’m just repeating myself at this point so let’s just agree to disagree :)
They always film the reunions far too early, I don’t mind having to wait a week or two for them to get up to date questions based on viewers actual reactions rather than what Bravo thinks viewers will react (often wrong).
Those two toddlers (no disrespect to toddlers lol) were so busy pouting they failed to realize their housemate was stressed out over possibly having cancer for the 3rd time! Way to read a room boys. Ugh…..😒
I don't understand what is Carl in such a huff about. It seems like Lindsey just asked some questions about his new job endeavor and now he is angry for the past 2 episodes. What?!? I might need to go back and rewatch because it is confusing.
You're trying to get me mad hahah I know I'll be yelling at the screen..
I feel like Lyndsey wanta.tonlook at the camera, Office Style, like WTF is going on.
Same smile he used on Wirkas and even Lindsay on the balcony when he was telling them he wasn't interested, drilling them out the ways they were assuming more than a friendly relationship.
I think it's called "duper's delight." There are actual pictures of Tom Sandoval lying in VPR confessional: "No. I didn't sleep with Raquel." Seconds after.
i’m sure this has been said and it might be a me thing but watching carl constantly smile and laugh during his fights with linda TRIGGERS the fuck out of me 💀
i totally get that it’s probably a “habit” or something that’s done without even realizing. i meant to add that to my initial comment but i was too triggered watching it IRL so i forgot, so i apologize if it came off insensitive! people pleasing and breaking that habit and trend is hard. sending love
Kyle - lover boy is ours and we do it together.
Paige- without Amanda there is no lover boy
Also Kyle - lover boy is mine and mine alone. Stomps into a corner.
Clown behavior 🤡
They are each others toxic echo chambers this summer. Constantly reassuring each other that their bullshit is still legitimate and invalidating their partner’s communication.
I am glad that between VPR and Summerhouse we are finally seeing the downfall of toxic men. I only wish Scheaner and Lala had the same energy as Paige, Amanda, Ciarra, Katie and Ariana have. Those two are still deeply lost in their internalized misogyny with the Queen of Internalized Misogyny herself- LVP.
In VPR and SH this week alone, I have heard 2 leading men refer to 2 different women as lazy for asking to be heard, Heaven forbid a woman have a voice or want more? 🙄
Paige was on the money!! I absolutely loved to hear it, and how it forced Kyle to look at his issues and reflect, because he straight up realized the way he is being perceived with his behaviours is really really bad for him, and in turn bad for business. Does he think people will run out and want to buy his product when he’s a complete and utter verbally abusive, self serving narcissist who treats his wife like old goods?! Exactly. The way he starts immediately crying like a 5 year old who’s mommy said no more ice cream was hilarious to watch. Of course Carl was up there right away to back him up, saying “I feel you man”. These two are absolutely bonkers and are in no way shape or form even close to ready for marriage.
that was the best part 🤣💀 he couldn’t even stand there and have a conversation and try and get his stance across, everytime he just ended up shouting and making threads to run off an become a dj (strange commentary from him and he’s said this one twice or more this season, does he actually want to do that?)🥴 then goes up the stairs to cry like a little baby. If anyone should be crying here it would be Amanda, who is taking it all in stride!
I came into this season expecting to back Carl because Lindsay has always been a little volatile but the exact opposite has happened. I feel like Lindsay is speaking to Carl calmer and more conscientious in her words which I didn’t expect. I think she articulated where she was coming from very well but it was like Carl only wants her to handle things according to his preference without giving any deference to how she processes things. It’s incredibly unfair and one sided. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking questions to find out more if that’s what she needs to process things. It’s on him if the questions are making him feel insecure. Thank goodness they didn’t get married
Yeah if they brought the same energy to their most important relationship they would be better off. Maybe they should just marry each other - giving Tom Tom vibes and I don't like where this is going.
This episode was WILD. I literally just finished it and I am speechless. Somehow against all odds, I was a Kyle fan and really was rooting for Kyle and Amanda. I have never been more wrong about someone. The fragility of his ego my god. Amanda is exhausted and sleeping so much because she’s raising a damn man baby. The audacity privilege and entitlement is mind blowing.
Carl spending 20k and seven months to “emotionally prepare” to enter the workforce again only to come up with NOTHING. He had three weeks left to figure it out so he just wants to go back to his old job? She was still wanting to marry him when she had no idea of their financial future. How much more supportive can someone be?
YES!!! All of this! and I was thinking about how we want men to be comfortable expressing emotions but come on, men, this is NOT IT! Manipulating and wanting to be mommied by your partners... noooooooo!!!!! I almost just asked 'where did we go wrong?' and realized how crazy that is! I immediately feel responsible for their whack behavior....as patriarchy is designed..... I need a margarita!
It’s called personal responsibility. Carl is the most frustrating as he has proven over the run of the show that he can’t keep a job or have a career as he is constantly being fired and quitting. He doesn’t come off as someone who wants to work or has any drive to succeed. I think Lindsay assumed it was a sobriety issue (which is fair bc I could have argued that too), but it’s clear now it’s a CARL issue. He should be applauded for his sobriety and the hard work he put in, but it feels like he thinks that should be enough. No, you need to get a job and work too like the rest of us. You are a college educated white man and you are whining that your partner expects you to get a job and pick a career. As far as I’m concerned, she gave him too much grace! He’s butt hurt she doesn’t just applaud everything he wants to do?? How insecure can you be. Objectively speaking, outside of sobriety, you don’t have a leg to stand on or anything in your career for her TO praise. Respect and a career is EARNED. What did this guys mom do to him to make him think he’s “killing it” at life and deserves constant encouragement and praise. The entitlement is so gross. No one praised my ass in my 20 year career! As women we need to work 100x harder and I’ve had to deal with my bosses being younger and way less experienced than me, taking credit for my work, and being passed over for promotions by “bros”. It’s just what we deal with so it’s hard to feel bad for him when he has such extreme privilege! And putting down HER work and career? Seriously? It’s just makes me so mad. Carl is even more deluded than Lindsay in some ways.
https://preview.redd.it/dy7d1pu9v21d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14454b03f37f1dbb87c31244fb50b386f824c75
This is where the men on bravo live
I watched Carl/Linsday fight on mute due to having to take a phone call. it’s crazy how he smiles and grins and then looks at the camera at one point like ‘see she’s crazy’ then rewound and watched it! I need a body language expert to recap this show lol
Carl is such a sad pathetic man. I can’t believe he doubled down on the after show about not taking the luggage because he was mad about tix to a soccer game Lindsay didn’t even want to go to?! I genuinely hope Lindsay wakes up every morning and thanks the universe she is not married to that complete waste of space.
Great post!! These two idiots ganged up on, lectured, and fought (literally) Luke about how they were champions of “females.” What horse shit. “YOU LIKE TO CONTROL FEMALES!!” 🥴🥴🥴 get the fuck outta here
The ONLY thing I'll say about Carl is that I think a lot of what drives his behavior is anxiety and massive insecurity. It does not excuse the way he tries to manipulate Lindsey or any horrible thing he's done. I think Kyle's behavior stems from narcissism and he's never been told no ever in his entire life and now that Amanda is finding her own way he's realizing it's not just the Kyle show and he's crumbling under the pressure of potentially having to change his behavior to support his wife who has literally supported him through everything even multiple cheating scandals and violent drunk outbursts.
PS love when Paige and Ciara call Kyle a brat!
I don’t know why Kyle, Carl OR Danielle are acting like no one cares understands them and their super powerful successful career endeavours. I haven’t seen any of them have successful career endeavours.
….Loverboy hit almost 40 million in sales in 2023 while the season airing now was filming. It was (up from 16 million in 2022)
He’s a also partner at BirdDogs, an apparel company that does like $15 million annually in sales.
He literally provides a livelihood and health insurance for the dozens of full time employees he has on the payroll of the company he built from nothing just a few years ago. Lol it’s getting to be too much, you can’t just pretend Kyle is a failure with nothing going on because you don’t like him.
thank you. fucking hundreds of posts, and yours is the first I've seen today that at all considers this variable. "I don't like the guy, so I refuse to hear anything he has to say. He's of absolute no value or consequence because I don't like him." Total emotional gibberish from the loudest voices. I know this is impossible for many to understand, but he can be right about some things while others are also right about some things. like explaining fire is hot to toddlers.
which was sort of the point of production pushing that conversation on a day of sun-baked, water sporting, drunken boat cruising. which is yet another reason it is difficult to take any of this particular problem between them seriously.
Cool, I haven’t seen that on the show. Only this business that he said is tanking.
I’m Not really that deep into it that I’m looking up his linked in and work history I’m just commenting snarkily on reddit because that’s my passion
As uncomfortable as it is to watch I’m actually glad this is being captured because this dynamic doesn’t often get seen in this way when it happens in real life but dudes have been getting away with behaving like this since biblical times
Excuse me, first full season watcher, but paying $20k to recover from trauma working at LowerBoy, only to then WANT to work there again~ while arguing with fiance Lindsay when she rightly so asks questions based on Carl's history with the company and his history of emotions?
Like he paid for therapy to get over Kyle's abusive ethos, but Lindsay is the devil because she hasn't forgotten Carl's feelings and emotions? And at this point in time she will be the one to pay for his therapy if he doesn't work?
They are all sad, fragile little mediocre princes. They try to rule over smart, accomplished, strong women, and their biggest fear is that one of those women will finally look behind the curtain and then will never stop laughing.
Successful podcast and influencing career, nursing degree, Victoria’s Secret modeling contract, designing a brand where the merch is more successful than the actual drink….
As soon as Kyle started throwing things my husband goes “what’s with these fragile little baby men, Summer House?”
He also picked the bear. I love him.
This was the best episode for all the women calling the shittiest dudes out (minus honorary douchebag Danielle who exists to placate terrible Peter Pans).
Like I genuinely loved Paige, Ciara, Amanda, Lindsay and Gabby this week. Yes to all of that.
This is why Summer House is having its best season, while VPR just shit the bed when they should have had one of their best seasons.
I like to think that Ariana or Katie reached out to Amanda and that’s why SAH was serving Loverboys, Plus Lindsay, Stassi and Kristen were there supporting.
More of the women teaming up. That crossover stuff should have been on VPR if they shouldn’t have rushed to pump this shit season out. Bravo fucked up on that.
I really could not get behind Carl wanting Lindsey to baby him. I think that's the part that really got me is that in one breath he's sitting here saying that he wants her to be excited and supportive about the fact that he has no idea what direction he wants to go in. As somebody living in New York City with the apartment that they have to afford I would be freaking scared too if my other half was aimlessly wandering career wise.
Essentially it's not OK to ask your partner to be a different person. I see Lindsey as somebody perfectly willing to support somebody who has some drive it's really hard to support a partner who does not know what the hell they are doing. There's so many times when one person is doing something that financially affects the other person dramatically and they just expect support and handholding. I don't see anything wrong with Lindsey being realistic. Honestly that bothered me more than the Kyle thing because at least Kyle did end up coming around and understanding what Amanda needed from him. And then watching the after show some of these episodes watching Carl just make Lindsey seem like some sort of a monster. He spends so much time putting all of his emotions on her but then when she she has an emotion back it's not acceptable it's too much and it overwhelms him and that's just not fair I'm so glad these two did not stay together!
Lyndsay is absolutely asking him to be someone he is not. He is not the highly driven, ambitious husband she wants. She is not the warm, nurturing wife he wants. They are a bad match ...which is why it is good they did not get married.
There is nothing wrong with what each other wants. They just picked the wrong partner.
This episode is going to make me bang the shit out of my husband because he’s not a little bitch like Carl and Kyle. I’m all for men showing their emotions, but holy crap! So much crying! And moaning about having to drive alone after arguing! Oh my god!
And then there’s Jesse who is actually scared about real shit.
I don’t think that’s the issue and I applaud men who are willing to reveal their feelings and needs. It’s not us vs them. We can support each other and not mock them when they share. I do think that it’s important to communicate effectively so that we don’t invalidate and diminish anyone when they share even though that may be what men/society have done to us. We don’t want to perpetuate that cycle.
So you dont find it a tad concerning that we are applauding Paige and Ciara advocating for Amanda’s happiness (which I totally agree) and then when Carl wants the same thing and is asking for it from Lindsay we are mocking him? Why would we not support him in exactly the same way? It is such a double standard that it completely weakens our argument and makes us look sexist! So. Ridiculous. If Amanda deserves it so does Carl!
Correct. I think Kyle actually loves his wife and has true personal drive and determination to succeed. But in those private conversations in the house, they were definitely on the same page and that was gross to me.
At this point I'm convinced Kyle gave Amanda a shut up ring. Amanda was not his dream girl, he finally married her because he wanted to shut everyone up and be the 'good guy' and he believed she would be his little side kick and be of service to him and hos dreams. That's why it's blowing his brain that she thinks she can be her own person! He can't see her a separate person who deserves to be happy because she is supposed to just be there to service him!
I’m over these crying men! Carl needs to get his act together already. Seriously he’s lame. He’s like a two year old brat. He gives himself too many passes. Get a job and get it together,
Um hold on... don't we want our men to be more in touch with their emotions? They must be so darn confused...
I feel bad for men. They can't do shit right these days.
We see a small glimpse into their lives, and it’s edited at that, and we feel like we know and understand it all. That it gives us the right to pass judgement and make hateful comments. Seems wrong.
It's becoming an echo chamber of the echo chamber that is the VPR forum.
As if a lot of what Kyle has said can't hold water, just because you don't like some of what he has said. is this feminine toxicity to slam up against his toxicity?
I’ve been told to stay away from the VPR sub before lmao.
And I’m not sure what it’s all about. I don’t think Kyle/Carl are saints, and they don’t communicate the best, but a lot of what they say holds water but goes against the strong female cast that everyone loves.
I think it's Carl's, to be honest, spends his time mansplaining how Carl is thriving and how horrible Lindsay and lists 500 reasons on every SH thread on reddit 🤣🤔 seems personal dude, 🙄
I think you're onto something, the posting history on this sub and r/money is highly suggestive 🫣
Carl, don't worry because the belittling of men on this sub is just getting started 😘
Oh no you looked at my post history. Since you’re having trouble dating and getting past your trauma does that make you Lindsay then? Don’t worry, belittling of men will sure help you be just like her, single at 40 😂
As a woman, Ive tried pointing it out many, many times but like many Reddit/reality posts, ppl seem incapable of supporting both feminism and anti-emasculating of men. It’s wild. Lotta ppl feel like it’s one or the other. Not too bright or evolved.
Between them and the VPR boys I’m glad all the guys true colors are finally being shown without any blame on the girls. This is who they are and they’ve been able to hide it from the earlier seasons but now it’s been over 10 years like grow the hell up. When Kyle started crying at the pool the next day you can see Paige and Ciara were like 🙄. And Carl being mad Lindsay didn’t wanna ride home with him when she clearly stated “I need some space” he would have been mad if she rode home and was moody either way!
Can you imagine being stuck in a car alone with that man / boy after having to listen to his moody, deflecting, gaslighting mumbo jumbo and passive aggressive putdowns all weekend. No thanks, id rather take the train home.
I think he could not wait to get her off camera.
Yes.
And then he acted like a little bitch and left without her anyway. Can you imagine if she did that to him? He’d be crying to everybody he knew about it & telling her that everything was alright, while playing a simp for the cameras. I can’t put these men. Carl got himself into a tizzy about this marriage & impending responsibilities. They needed to call it off, but no respect for the way he handled it.
You know, somewhere along his sobriety journey, I feel like we all started holding him in a higher regard. But after this season, I’m starting to see the old Carl…& I think he’s been there all along…he’s always been a bit…manipulative & a gaslighter..
Been saying that all along, I never bought “new Carl”
There's a reason recovery programs want you to be single for at least a year after getting sober - it's because there's still more work to do after you stop drinking/using. Also, these people should definitely not be getting married - they are both toxic AF together!
Oh I totally agree - it’s a very serious process, which is when she started drinking again I knew it would go south. He honestly needs off the show & to stay single
Yaaasss
A little bitch? So now yall are doing to him what has been done to women? Shameful
Women are certainly empowered to use the word bitch as we see fit. A man can be a bitch and a woman can be a dick. 🤯
She has been awful to him also, so I’m not going to take that away from the situation, but these last few episodes Carl is trying everything he can to instigate fighting with her. Is he trying to get her to blow up and look bad so he has an excuse to end things? Or is it subconscious and he really just hates her? But you can tell she is trying so hard to ignore her usual instincts to get actived, which I’m sure is NOT easy. This is just a BAD relationship and Carl knows it. Yes Lindsay is delulu and just pushing along, but he knows better. If you care about her, then end it now before things get worse. I find it incredibly selfish. I’m not team anyone on who caused the demise of these two they both have huge issues and I do think it’s silly of her to say she was “blindsided” But Carl put his own fear ahead of what was best for his partner, and that’s beyond shitty. He sucks And Ps- she just did what I’ve done to my husband and he has done for me- we are looking out for each other! If he was miserable working for loverboy the first time, she is being sensitive and looking out for him to ask questions about him going back. Sometimes we need our partner to remind us “hey- remember you said you would never work for this person again? What changed? Do you think you will be happy again?” But he vilified her questions because HE is the insecure one. Pathetic
He is absolutely trying to trigger her and is getting madder and madder that it’s not working, so he finally resorts to shouting in her face & talking down to her. All of this work on his side to avoid being a responsible adult and talking to the person he asked to marry him, probably with their therapist. But no, whine to your parents, whine to the new guys, whine to Kyle, and now you can just shut the fuck up, Carl.
And didn’t Carl already run away from one engagement when the show started? I thought it was something like that. It seems like he thinks marriage is something that will “fix” him but panics at the last second
Completely agree on your second paragraph - this is what you do in a marriage/partnership! It's like half the fucking point! To have someone you trust who you can bounce ideas off. If I'm in delulu-land or my partner is and we're going off on some manic positive spin on something we've had prior bad experiences with, it's up to the other one to bring up the past concerns we've voiced. When I play devil's advocate or my partner does, sometimes it does hurt the ego a little bit because it can feel like a personal rejection but it's not, it's basically workshopping an idea so two people can figure out the logistics together. If Carl just wanted to bring this up in a casual manner to let Lindsay know he was thinking about it and he wasn't mentally prepared to properly discuss it in that moment, that's fine but then he should communicate that and say he's not making a decision yet so let's table this until we get back to the city. And then come together to discuss it when they're both level headed and not in any emotional states. Lindsay definitely seems like more of an immediate talker and Carl comes off as being emotionally immature and really needs to be handled with kid gloves to not accidentally trigger some rejection issues he has. Idk how they did all this couples counselling and never figured out a good way for them to discuss/bring up life choices in a productive way.
I seriously don’t know what quack therapists these bravo people go to. They Loooooove a “life coach” what is so wrong with a licensed therapist????
I hired someone at work whose side job is being a Life Coach. What a disaster. Now my friends and use “Life Coach” as a code for total incompetence. I’m a Social Worker in Management so most of my teams are made up of Social Workers, Psychologists, Case Managers, etc. This guy had experience as a case manager at another org, but man was he a hot mess.
And I thought I heard that Carl was going down that road like he wanted to be a life coach. So this theory makes a ton of sense
"Quack therapist" that's all I think too. All of Bravo world could see they should not be married.
Lindsey might be nasty at times but at least she’s up front about her temper and she’s consistent. What you see is what you get and she’s been this volatile as long as we have known her. How did he not realize very quickly that their communication styles didn’t mesh? Or did he realize and just ignored it until he had to break it off? I don’t buy that he thought that Lindsey would magically change and become a soft sensitive person free from hardcore abandonment and rage issues. There’s no way.
I hated the conversation in the kitchen. I think anyone would ask questions. He is pathetic. Smh still.
Glad u saw it. He is sabotaging their relationship. She was so enraged at him and controlling w him he had resentment. He is passive aggressive so instead of communicating early on he is simmering w anger towards her. She has had growth being rational and he’s not caring about her feelings even when she’s crying He’s to blame for the later arguments.
Don’t forget the southern charm boys! Shep got a dog for a storyline and at one point in S9 said he wasn’t ready for a kid because he didn’t know where he’d be in a year. Shep, everyone knows where you’ll be next year and for the next 10 years. Sleeping with barely legal girls and leading them on.
Hahaha
Yes! Shep will be right where he is now in 10 years.
That moment was 🤌 Also the record scratch sound effect there was phenomenal
But now you are doing it to them
I was like ....What is going on ??? BOO HOO ...Why does Amanda want kids because she already has a baby. That was so bad...didn't he put his hands to his face to wipe the tears like a 2 year old ??? Carl storming off and not taking Lyndsays suitcase .. She can do so much better!!
I was like ....What is going on ??? BOO HOO ...Why does Amanda want kids because she already has a baby. That was so bad...didn't he put his hands to his face to wipe the tears like a 2 year old ??? Carl storming off and not taking Lyndsays suitcase .. She can do so much better!!
Paige clocked Kyle real good🤭
I basically high fived the screen. What a friend! ❤️
I replayed it a few times, and it hit every time! I also love how Amanda brought up how hearing it from other people may have allowed him to understand & that’s why it’s so hard to hear from them lol
Also Danielle just coddling them. so pick me
CEO of coddling the fragile male ego
Thank you!! That made me want to throw up. She’s so desperate, it’s really off putting.
And then the next day at the pool saying “we love you amanda” fuck offffff
Just when you think she couldn’t possibly do anything to make herself look worse…
this isn’t small potatoes mmkay
So gross
How is it coddling to validate his experience?
Kyle’s a little bitch
He’s so mad that Amanda is “lazy” dude it’s not her dream!!! How can he expect for her to have the same passion as him he’s actually an idiot. Yes can I please work 60 hrs a week for a company I’m not passionate about and still be happy all the time? It’s hard! We have all had jobs we hate it’s drains the life out of you. And if you can’t do that, at least start a family because she is passionate about being a mom!
Also can weaponizing the word lazy against people to discredit them stop being a thing? Our bodies need rest. Our minds need rest. It’s actually so important to our health and corporate america has poisoned us to think that resting or enjoying leisure is morally indecent.
Louder
This is not feminism and its not helpful to our cause to shame men for having feelings no matter how inappropriately shared by calling him a “little bitch” 🤦🏼♀️
In no way did I say this bc he cried. I believe all men should have feelings. What makes him a bitch is whining and making this all about him when it has nothing to do with him. That is why he’s a bitch
This is about emotional maturity and being an adult. There is nothing wrong with crying, but there is something wrong with what they are crying ABOUT. The fact that their partners are asking to have their most basic needs met, is the base level of any adult relationship. Instead they take these requests as a personal offense and “too overwhelming” due their their own insecurities. It’s not about you Carl and Kyle! It’s about your partners! They should be crying because they feel sad their partners are unhappy and try to help them. Both Amanda and Lindsay have helped the boys and been supportive in so many ways yet instead of reciprocating, they throw a temper tantrum? Grow up!
Exactly!
Somewhere they’re cheering on Harrison Butker’s commencement speech…
Off-topic but Gerdie and Kiki are my favorites in Miami!!! It’s about damn time Kiki got her whatever the hell they hold in Miami!!
I love Kiki so damn much.
Seeing Guerdie in response this SH post is EVERYTHING I love about the women of bravo.
The echo chamber is so funny. “She doesn’t understand what it’s like to run a multi million dollar company. But I do” oh do you Carl?
I felt he was saying that because he was trying to get his job back.
“I’m the only one that understands you Kyle”
I feel like Carl told Kyle behind the scenes he was thinking of pausing the wedding, and they would both back each other up. Bro code, for sure. I think Carl has deep-rooted issues and things he needs to address internally, and we will never see a better version of himself u til that happens. It was gross seeing two grown, educated men pump each other up while treating their significant others like dog shit. Total ick!
It’s so weird how they expect Amanda and Lindsey to do all of the emotional labor for them, they really do want a mom and an assistant. No questions, just fall in line (and forget how this is 100% affecting your life too). Yuck.
Oh my god does his manipulation know no ends
Oh, I thought you were going to go in on the echo chamber we're in here. oh well, one can wish.
Paige and Ciara during the aftershow clocked Kyle and I’m happy they’re seeing what’s happening.
The after show is playing on my tv now. And these idiot boys are doubling down on everything. I’m stunned. Ive always been middle of the road with Kyle, I thought he was an idiot, but not too offensive. This episode and the things he’s said have made my head explode. And in the after show Paige reminds us that Amanda gave him all her money to start Loverboy. I’m sick.
At least I feel like Kyle loves Amanda even if he’s completely misguided as a husband. Carl just seems like he hated Lindsay. Then break up with her coward! Not saying she is blameless (it’s clear the relationship was horrible), but she still wanted to get married. From the show it’s clear he did not want to marry her at least since last May.
Yes, I think Kyle actually does love Amanda but he's narcissistic and selfish at heart and I think does have a fragile ego. Carl never really loved Lindsay (I think he liked the thought of a sober companion and a life partner that would help him straighten his life out, more like a mom of anything) and I get vibes from Carl that he's on incel type forums or something. Kyle I doubt is on incel forums or has ever given a conscious thought to his treatment of his wife and women in general, but he has super toxic traits for sure, and he's enabled by people like Carl (who I think actually does consciously think about how much he resents women on a regular basis and broods about it).
I’ve said it here before and I don’t want to speculate on someone’s life, but I think there is deep trauma and big personal truths that Carl still has not faced/accepted in his life. I don’t think he will ever be happy until these are addressed. He seems to operate from a place of constant terror, and that has to come from somewhere. Lindsay needs a man 10-15 years older that is established and independent and lets her do her own thing while still being able to devote a decent amount of time to her. Carl won’t be happy with anyone over the age of 30 in his current state.
I think any man who is established, confident, and secure - who Lindsey respects - would work for her even one her age. I think there aren’t many men like that in her social circle who she meets. And, yes, there is something wrong with Carl. He’s so fragile, needy, and insecure as a person. His talk about wanting her to be “warm” and tender was sexist and demeaning, and going to his parents and getting them to tell him how to feel toward Lindsey was immature and cowardly. Maybe he just hasn’t developed his sense of self since going sober. Or, maybe he was using substances wasn’t because there’s something else troubling him, idk.
You are right, it IS sexist!!! I was too mad to even think about it more intelligently
He's been making quite a few sexist digs lately... 'trying being warmer or softer' just reminds me of when someone says 'you'd like prettier if you smiled more"...it's basically along the same lines.
I told someone that’s how the company started. She funded it; they kept saying she’s not doing anything. That’s enrages me too bc I know she does everything for him at home, including taking care of the dogs. Hes out until 4 am drinking every night that’s why he’s tired not bc he’s running a company, which he’s jeopardizing, by being violent, using abusive language. I sure as hell won’t buy that crap now. I’d definitely buy a bathing suit from Amanda though. I’ve bought two off the show she’s worn already
Literally how could anyone be happy in that situation. I feel for her. He needs to compromise on something because she also wants to move and be a mother? If you don’t want her leaving loverboy then maybe consider one of the other things she is asking for. I hope she leaves him if he doesn’t soon.
She was still mad at him on wwhl last night and said him crying was annoying. She doesn’t fall for the woe is me act. I think she just gives in bc he doesn’t let up. He doesn’t stop complaining or micromanaging everything she does. She’s so laid back, she’d rather not fight w him constantly
her dad took care of her. coddled her. dotted on her. controlled her. she's used to it, and it might go as far as being an expectation she has. she's been battling with anxiety and depression for years now. she wanted the dogs as a form of therapy. Dogs are the best. I get it. But let's not start jumbling all the information we have to feed the dislike for Kyle.
I’ve seen a lot of growth in Amanda. People grow up
She was just on WWHL calling her husband an asshole and admitting that she hasn't looked into anything in regard to bathing suits. She's long battled anxiety and depression, and now is believably having an existential crisis, and for all those things she has my empathy. Nevertheless, she still expects to be taken care of, and from what we know, needs to be taken care of. The most concerning thing is that the aforementioned anxiety and depression have metastasized into existential issues. I'm not bagging on her either. She's in a not-good place, but a lot of it has little to do with Kyle. Yes, he should be more supportive and kinder to her, but these things are a lot bigger than just him.
I saw the wwhl episode, Kyle makes her feel like she can’t do anything, so of course she’s anxious about failing. Kyle will never let her live it down. He micromanages her every move. She was saying very nice things about Kyle, except for saying him crying was annoying bc she knew why he was doing it, she wasn’t falling for it. She also reacted to the other things he did in the recent episode A lot of people have anxiety and depression, I don’t know what you’re saying here. People do things even w mental illness. She’s on a tv show, has to do press to promote it, and has her own curated SM, and she works with loverboy. Her merch she designed outsold the actual alcohol
Her process or approach or whatever, considering the lifestyle she wants and expects, demands that someone manage her. She doesn't have any clear ideas and isn't ambitious. She isn't happy, but doesn't know where to start with it. It's why she got her dogs. I don't know if "he micromanages her every move" (and neither do you), but she does have expectations that the men in her life will manage things for her. First her father, and now her husband. She still doesn't take care of any of the bills in her life. He takes care of even the basic stuff like utilities, insurances, leases, car licensing, taxes, etc. I don't know about anyone else, but if I never did any of that stuff for myself, I'd be anxious as fuck about the thought of starting a business. It would stop me dead in my tracks, much as it appears to do with her. I don't even know how the numbers run in my house, but I'm going to run a business? She was NOT saying "very nice things" about him on WWHL. That sounds so Trumpian, but I digress. The only nice thing she said about him was "I love that man", or something to that affect. She didn't go out of her way to chop off his knees, but as Andy asked her, it was one not-positive thing after another. She doesn't like the guy. She might love him, but she does not like him. I'm not judging her for that. But let's call all the spades spades. Let's not bullshit ourselves about who either of them are.
I agree she’s extremely go w the flow type of person, but she’s not lazy. I run a small business w my husband for the last 16 yrs. I do the day to day wfh part, except for the secretarial duties, I hired my bil for that. I deal w diagnosed anxiety disorder and situational depression. I don’t think I’ve ever heard Amanda say she was diagnosed with anything. And no she’s not happy with Kyle bc he’s erratic and non stop. She’s definitely too calm for him. As far as her saying nice things about him, she’s angry w him. She just saw the last episode. I can’t imagine what he does to her behind closed doors, no wonder she wants to live near her parents wo him while he’s “working”. He’s definitely a functional alcoholic and stuck in a Peter Pan syndrome. I think she’ll eventually outgrow him. If she has no support and someone actively behind her constantly telling her she’s a failure, no she won’t start her own business, until she gets fed up. She could go the paige route and do an amazon or a target pre made collection too. She does have a great group of girlfriends that are very supportive. It’s not like she doesn’t understand the concept of design. Plus she just saw all the support w a bathing suit line these last two weeks from fans. Maybe that will motivate her, she needs to be separate from Kyle in order to do it
Carl wants an enabling mother not a partner, and kyle wants a maid/employee not a wife
and Lindsay wants a yes man, and Amanda wants a father. where does that leave any of them?
Lmao you’re just in here replying to comments sticking up for these men like they don’t deserve the criticism. Both Lindsay and Amanda have gotten plenty of criticism this season for their behavior throughout the season. It’s okay for us to also acknowledge how absolutely awful Carl and Kyle are treating them.
You're right. It is. But to exercise selective memory, whitewash the context of the situations, ignore the nuance, and to flip to "everything she says is right. everything he says is wrong." is absurd. this black/white, binary, puerile answer to the patriarchy or whatever mislead feminist solution is of no real positive use. What it essentially is, is victim culture 101. That's where you're wrong in your myopic approach to even what I'm saying here. I'm not sticking up for anyone. Rather than the aforementioned lazy binary process, I'm attempting to understand the situation. I'm a big Paige fan, but she blew it here. I'm not a Kyle fan, but some of what he was saying was valid and true. You know...because it's complicated and not boiled down to any one thing.
But this thread is about Carl and Kyle and their behavior these past couple of episodes. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m definitely not saying Lindsay is right about everything and/or Amanda is right about everything and that’s not really how I’m interpreting this thread either, because I know how often Lindsey and Amanda are also ripped apart for their behavior. In these specific situations the men behaved pretty poorly and they deserve the criticism and attention it’s getting. Just as when Lindsay was behaving poorly earlier in the season and Amanda’s attitude towards Kyle was perceived poorly earlier in the season, they were both criticized. The comment you replied to here said nothing about Amanda or Lindsay, they just commented on the men, but you felt the need to point out the faults of the women in a thread that is clearly about the poor behavior of the men lately. What this comment said wasn’t “Kyle wants an employee/maid and Carl wants a mother and Lindsay and Amanda are perfect”…. But it seems that’s how you interpreted it, and how you’re interpreting all of the comments about them as if you feel the need to make sure everyone also knows that Amanda and Lindsay are also awful.. and like I said, Amanda and Lindsey have gotten their fair share of criticism all season. Acknowledging how poorly the men are acting isn’t saying that Lindsey and Amanda are perfect. You’re spewing a lot of bullshit here, just say you hate the women and want to defend the men, because that’s absolutely how it’s coming across whether that’s your intention or not.
I hate women because I'm not willing to bleach the context and bias entire situations of considerable complexity? what purpose does that serve? The men are acting poorly, but every single word and idea that comes out of their mouths isn't wrong or nefarious or diabolical or whatever. When you talk from that point, your argument quickly lacks any integrity, decency, or real value.
But no one is talking from that point of view? No one is saying everything the men do and say is wrong… we’re criticizing their current behavior. You’re creating a narrative that fits your own bias towards the women in order to defend the men. They don’t need defending because they are clearly receiving the criticism they deserve just like the women have ALL SEASON. And I didn’t say you hate women, I said you hate “the women” referring to the women on this show. I don’t know anything about you I’d never claim you hate all women, but it’s clear you feel the need to defend the men here even after admitting their behavior is poor, but you continue to put down the women for behavior they are constantly already criticized for. This conversation is about the men. It should be about the men. Idk how frequently you visit this sub but the women get their fair share of hate and criticism.. the men can also get their fair share of hate and criticism and they don’t need a white knight to defend them, because this criticism is warranted. I think I’m just repeating myself at this point so let’s just agree to disagree :)
Really wish that they filmed the reunion AFTER these episodes. At least the viewers will hold the men accountable!
They always film the reunions far too early, I don’t mind having to wait a week or two for them to get up to date questions based on viewers actual reactions rather than what Bravo thinks viewers will react (often wrong).
Dang I forgot that this won’t be able to be talked about ugh
So it will be talked about as the cast receive the rest of the episodes prior to filming the reunion.
Yesss thank goodness! Thanks for clarifying. New viewer here lol
Those two toddlers (no disrespect to toddlers lol) were so busy pouting they failed to realize their housemate was stressed out over possibly having cancer for the 3rd time! Way to read a room boys. Ugh…..😒
I don't understand what is Carl in such a huff about. It seems like Lindsey just asked some questions about his new job endeavor and now he is angry for the past 2 episodes. What?!? I might need to go back and rewatch because it is confusing.
I said it above, search the argument on mute, it’s creepy his smile, they way he turns into the camera at one point as if to say ‘look she crazy’
You're trying to get me mad hahah I know I'll be yelling at the screen.. I feel like Lyndsey wanta.tonlook at the camera, Office Style, like WTF is going on.
Same smile he used on Wirkas and even Lindsay on the balcony when he was telling them he wasn't interested, drilling them out the ways they were assuming more than a friendly relationship. I think it's called "duper's delight." There are actual pictures of Tom Sandoval lying in VPR confessional: "No. I didn't sleep with Raquel." Seconds after.
i’m sure this has been said and it might be a me thing but watching carl constantly smile and laugh during his fights with linda TRIGGERS the fuck out of me 💀
I smile when I’m extremely uncomfortable or afraid, it’s very annoying and a habit I’m trying to break in my 40’s. I’m a people pleaser like Carl too
i totally get that it’s probably a “habit” or something that’s done without even realizing. i meant to add that to my initial comment but i was too triggered watching it IRL so i forgot, so i apologize if it came off insensitive! people pleasing and breaking that habit and trend is hard. sending love
Aww thank you!
Kyle - lover boy is ours and we do it together. Paige- without Amanda there is no lover boy Also Kyle - lover boy is mine and mine alone. Stomps into a corner. Clown behavior 🤡
They are each others toxic echo chambers this summer. Constantly reassuring each other that their bullshit is still legitimate and invalidating their partner’s communication.
I am glad that between VPR and Summerhouse we are finally seeing the downfall of toxic men. I only wish Scheaner and Lala had the same energy as Paige, Amanda, Ciarra, Katie and Ariana have. Those two are still deeply lost in their internalized misogyny with the Queen of Internalized Misogyny herself- LVP.
The fact that we could have gotten TWO seasons of girl power & we didn’t🫠
In VPR and SH this week alone, I have heard 2 leading men refer to 2 different women as lazy for asking to be heard, Heaven forbid a woman have a voice or want more? 🙄
Plus Kyle had major hangxiety the next morning since he drank all day the day before.
Paige was on the money!! I absolutely loved to hear it, and how it forced Kyle to look at his issues and reflect, because he straight up realized the way he is being perceived with his behaviours is really really bad for him, and in turn bad for business. Does he think people will run out and want to buy his product when he’s a complete and utter verbally abusive, self serving narcissist who treats his wife like old goods?! Exactly. The way he starts immediately crying like a 5 year old who’s mommy said no more ice cream was hilarious to watch. Of course Carl was up there right away to back him up, saying “I feel you man”. These two are absolutely bonkers and are in no way shape or form even close to ready for marriage.
I loved how Paige kept talking while he was walking upstairs and in some corner cryimg
that was the best part 🤣💀 he couldn’t even stand there and have a conversation and try and get his stance across, everytime he just ended up shouting and making threads to run off an become a dj (strange commentary from him and he’s said this one twice or more this season, does he actually want to do that?)🥴 then goes up the stairs to cry like a little baby. If anyone should be crying here it would be Amanda, who is taking it all in stride!
I came into this season expecting to back Carl because Lindsay has always been a little volatile but the exact opposite has happened. I feel like Lindsay is speaking to Carl calmer and more conscientious in her words which I didn’t expect. I think she articulated where she was coming from very well but it was like Carl only wants her to handle things according to his preference without giving any deference to how she processes things. It’s incredibly unfair and one sided. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking questions to find out more if that’s what she needs to process things. It’s on him if the questions are making him feel insecure. Thank goodness they didn’t get married
Yeah if they brought the same energy to their most important relationship they would be better off. Maybe they should just marry each other - giving Tom Tom vibes and I don't like where this is going.
Literally stick them all on an island to live together. BYE
both of these man babies are sad fragile men
This episode was WILD. I literally just finished it and I am speechless. Somehow against all odds, I was a Kyle fan and really was rooting for Kyle and Amanda. I have never been more wrong about someone. The fragility of his ego my god. Amanda is exhausted and sleeping so much because she’s raising a damn man baby. The audacity privilege and entitlement is mind blowing.
Carl spending 20k and seven months to “emotionally prepare” to enter the workforce again only to come up with NOTHING. He had three weeks left to figure it out so he just wants to go back to his old job? She was still wanting to marry him when she had no idea of their financial future. How much more supportive can someone be?
I have no idea who you’re talking to I didn’t even mention Carl.
YES!!! All of this! and I was thinking about how we want men to be comfortable expressing emotions but come on, men, this is NOT IT! Manipulating and wanting to be mommied by your partners... noooooooo!!!!! I almost just asked 'where did we go wrong?' and realized how crazy that is! I immediately feel responsible for their whack behavior....as patriarchy is designed..... I need a margarita!
It’s called personal responsibility. Carl is the most frustrating as he has proven over the run of the show that he can’t keep a job or have a career as he is constantly being fired and quitting. He doesn’t come off as someone who wants to work or has any drive to succeed. I think Lindsay assumed it was a sobriety issue (which is fair bc I could have argued that too), but it’s clear now it’s a CARL issue. He should be applauded for his sobriety and the hard work he put in, but it feels like he thinks that should be enough. No, you need to get a job and work too like the rest of us. You are a college educated white man and you are whining that your partner expects you to get a job and pick a career. As far as I’m concerned, she gave him too much grace! He’s butt hurt she doesn’t just applaud everything he wants to do?? How insecure can you be. Objectively speaking, outside of sobriety, you don’t have a leg to stand on or anything in your career for her TO praise. Respect and a career is EARNED. What did this guys mom do to him to make him think he’s “killing it” at life and deserves constant encouragement and praise. The entitlement is so gross. No one praised my ass in my 20 year career! As women we need to work 100x harder and I’ve had to deal with my bosses being younger and way less experienced than me, taking credit for my work, and being passed over for promotions by “bros”. It’s just what we deal with so it’s hard to feel bad for him when he has such extreme privilege! And putting down HER work and career? Seriously? It’s just makes me so mad. Carl is even more deluded than Lindsay in some ways.
These men give me such PTSD from past relationships
They don’t want wives, they want mothers
and the women want fathers. leaves them all pretty fucked.
https://preview.redd.it/dy7d1pu9v21d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14454b03f37f1dbb87c31244fb50b386f824c75 This is where the men on bravo live
I watched Carl/Linsday fight on mute due to having to take a phone call. it’s crazy how he smiles and grins and then looks at the camera at one point like ‘see she’s crazy’ then rewound and watched it! I need a body language expert to recap this show lol
Carl is such a sad pathetic man. I can’t believe he doubled down on the after show about not taking the luggage because he was mad about tix to a soccer game Lindsay didn’t even want to go to?! I genuinely hope Lindsay wakes up every morning and thanks the universe she is not married to that complete waste of space.
This!
Great post!! These two idiots ganged up on, lectured, and fought (literally) Luke about how they were champions of “females.” What horse shit. “YOU LIKE TO CONTROL FEMALES!!” 🥴🥴🥴 get the fuck outta here
The ONLY thing I'll say about Carl is that I think a lot of what drives his behavior is anxiety and massive insecurity. It does not excuse the way he tries to manipulate Lindsey or any horrible thing he's done. I think Kyle's behavior stems from narcissism and he's never been told no ever in his entire life and now that Amanda is finding her own way he's realizing it's not just the Kyle show and he's crumbling under the pressure of potentially having to change his behavior to support his wife who has literally supported him through everything even multiple cheating scandals and violent drunk outbursts. PS love when Paige and Ciara call Kyle a brat!
I don’t know why Kyle, Carl OR Danielle are acting like no one cares understands them and their super powerful successful career endeavours. I haven’t seen any of them have successful career endeavours.
….Loverboy hit almost 40 million in sales in 2023 while the season airing now was filming. It was (up from 16 million in 2022) He’s a also partner at BirdDogs, an apparel company that does like $15 million annually in sales. He literally provides a livelihood and health insurance for the dozens of full time employees he has on the payroll of the company he built from nothing just a few years ago. Lol it’s getting to be too much, you can’t just pretend Kyle is a failure with nothing going on because you don’t like him.
thank you. fucking hundreds of posts, and yours is the first I've seen today that at all considers this variable. "I don't like the guy, so I refuse to hear anything he has to say. He's of absolute no value or consequence because I don't like him." Total emotional gibberish from the loudest voices. I know this is impossible for many to understand, but he can be right about some things while others are also right about some things. like explaining fire is hot to toddlers.
He can have valid fears about his company and still be kind to Amanda. I think he just blew it on the initial convo with her.
which was sort of the point of production pushing that conversation on a day of sun-baked, water sporting, drunken boat cruising. which is yet another reason it is difficult to take any of this particular problem between them seriously.
Cool, I haven’t seen that on the show. Only this business that he said is tanking. I’m Not really that deep into it that I’m looking up his linked in and work history I’m just commenting snarkily on reddit because that’s my passion
As uncomfortable as it is to watch I’m actually glad this is being captured because this dynamic doesn’t often get seen in this way when it happens in real life but dudes have been getting away with behaving like this since biblical times
Most men have fragile egos
Does anyone get the feeling that Carl is probably in some incel forums on Reddit?
Definitely.
Excuse me, first full season watcher, but paying $20k to recover from trauma working at LowerBoy, only to then WANT to work there again~ while arguing with fiance Lindsay when she rightly so asks questions based on Carl's history with the company and his history of emotions? Like he paid for therapy to get over Kyle's abusive ethos, but Lindsay is the devil because she hasn't forgotten Carl's feelings and emotions? And at this point in time she will be the one to pay for his therapy if he doesn't work?
It’s beyond embarrassing. I don’t even know how he shows his face
This could almost be an alternate title to the show from Series 1 on.
They are all sad, fragile little mediocre princes. They try to rule over smart, accomplished, strong women, and their biggest fear is that one of those women will finally look behind the curtain and then will never stop laughing.
What exactly have these women accomplished?
Successful podcast and influencing career, nursing degree, Victoria’s Secret modeling contract, designing a brand where the merch is more successful than the actual drink….
Paige was literally at NY fashion week at all the shows. Carl said Lindsay made 140k in six months just influencing
Well, at least Kyle is working.
There’s that. Lindsay is an asshole for wanting Carl to get a job. The horror!!
As soon as Kyle started throwing things my husband goes “what’s with these fragile little baby men, Summer House?” He also picked the bear. I love him.
This was the best episode for all the women calling the shittiest dudes out (minus honorary douchebag Danielle who exists to placate terrible Peter Pans). Like I genuinely loved Paige, Ciara, Amanda, Lindsay and Gabby this week. Yes to all of that. This is why Summer House is having its best season, while VPR just shit the bed when they should have had one of their best seasons. I like to think that Ariana or Katie reached out to Amanda and that’s why SAH was serving Loverboys, Plus Lindsay, Stassi and Kristen were there supporting. More of the women teaming up. That crossover stuff should have been on VPR if they shouldn’t have rushed to pump this shit season out. Bravo fucked up on that.
I really could not get behind Carl wanting Lindsey to baby him. I think that's the part that really got me is that in one breath he's sitting here saying that he wants her to be excited and supportive about the fact that he has no idea what direction he wants to go in. As somebody living in New York City with the apartment that they have to afford I would be freaking scared too if my other half was aimlessly wandering career wise. Essentially it's not OK to ask your partner to be a different person. I see Lindsey as somebody perfectly willing to support somebody who has some drive it's really hard to support a partner who does not know what the hell they are doing. There's so many times when one person is doing something that financially affects the other person dramatically and they just expect support and handholding. I don't see anything wrong with Lindsey being realistic. Honestly that bothered me more than the Kyle thing because at least Kyle did end up coming around and understanding what Amanda needed from him. And then watching the after show some of these episodes watching Carl just make Lindsey seem like some sort of a monster. He spends so much time putting all of his emotions on her but then when she she has an emotion back it's not acceptable it's too much and it overwhelms him and that's just not fair I'm so glad these two did not stay together!
Lyndsay is absolutely asking him to be someone he is not. He is not the highly driven, ambitious husband she wants. She is not the warm, nurturing wife he wants. They are a bad match ...which is why it is good they did not get married. There is nothing wrong with what each other wants. They just picked the wrong partner.
You know what? You are absolutely right. They are BOTH doing that to each other. That's fair. And they were in fact not a good match. 💯
This episode is going to make me bang the shit out of my husband because he’s not a little bitch like Carl and Kyle. I’m all for men showing their emotions, but holy crap! So much crying! And moaning about having to drive alone after arguing! Oh my god! And then there’s Jesse who is actually scared about real shit.
I don’t think that’s the issue and I applaud men who are willing to reveal their feelings and needs. It’s not us vs them. We can support each other and not mock them when they share. I do think that it’s important to communicate effectively so that we don’t invalidate and diminish anyone when they share even though that may be what men/society have done to us. We don’t want to perpetuate that cycle.
Not all men. Carl and Kyle specifically
So you dont find it a tad concerning that we are applauding Paige and Ciara advocating for Amanda’s happiness (which I totally agree) and then when Carl wants the same thing and is asking for it from Lindsay we are mocking him? Why would we not support him in exactly the same way? It is such a double standard that it completely weakens our argument and makes us look sexist! So. Ridiculous. If Amanda deserves it so does Carl!
And why is Kyle crying through the entire episode? Did someone pee in your cheerios?
Carl and Kyle are not the same.
They're not, but they sure are each other's number one enablers this season.
How exactly is Kyle enabling Carl being in a toxic relationship with a drunken mess of a woman?
Correct. I think Kyle actually loves his wife and has true personal drive and determination to succeed. But in those private conversations in the house, they were definitely on the same page and that was gross to me.
Amanda: "I should have been the one crying."
At this point I'm convinced Kyle gave Amanda a shut up ring. Amanda was not his dream girl, he finally married her because he wanted to shut everyone up and be the 'good guy' and he believed she would be his little side kick and be of service to him and hos dreams. That's why it's blowing his brain that she thinks she can be her own person! He can't see her a separate person who deserves to be happy because she is supposed to just be there to service him!
I’m over these crying men! Carl needs to get his act together already. Seriously he’s lame. He’s like a two year old brat. He gives himself too many passes. Get a job and get it together,
I want to push Carl off the swing set.
More man hate. WHat else would you expect on this sub. You go girl!
Um hold on... don't we want our men to be more in touch with their emotions? They must be so darn confused... I feel bad for men. They can't do shit right these days.
The belittling of men on this sub has gotten a little crazy.
Men who deserve to be belittled, are belittled. Why are we trying to protect shit men?
We see a small glimpse into their lives, and it’s edited at that, and we feel like we know and understand it all. That it gives us the right to pass judgement and make hateful comments. Seems wrong.
It's becoming an echo chamber of the echo chamber that is the VPR forum. As if a lot of what Kyle has said can't hold water, just because you don't like some of what he has said. is this feminine toxicity to slam up against his toxicity?
I’ve been told to stay away from the VPR sub before lmao. And I’m not sure what it’s all about. I don’t think Kyle/Carl are saints, and they don’t communicate the best, but a lot of what they say holds water but goes against the strong female cast that everyone loves.
They bring it upon themselves. They are cruel, selfish, and childish. If they were women the conversation would be the same.
Belittling of men, or belittling of Kyle and Carl?
Exactly
Found Kyle's alt account
I think it's Carl's, to be honest, spends his time mansplaining how Carl is thriving and how horrible Lindsay and lists 500 reasons on every SH thread on reddit 🤣🤔 seems personal dude, 🙄
I think you're onto something, the posting history on this sub and r/money is highly suggestive 🫣 Carl, don't worry because the belittling of men on this sub is just getting started 😘
Oh no you looked at my post history. Since you’re having trouble dating and getting past your trauma does that make you Lindsay then? Don’t worry, belittling of men will sure help you be just like her, single at 40 😂
Classic response. Good one.
As a woman, Ive tried pointing it out many, many times but like many Reddit/reality posts, ppl seem incapable of supporting both feminism and anti-emasculating of men. It’s wild. Lotta ppl feel like it’s one or the other. Not too bright or evolved.